Well done Gillette

Written By: - Date published: 4:17 pm, January 16th, 2019 - 126 comments
Categories: Deep stuff, internet, Media, sexism, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags: ,

Gillette has come out with this outstanding ad which for some strange reason has invoked a negative response from some.

They are running a website the best men can be. It has this message:

Thirty years ago, we launched our The Best A Man Can Get tagline.

Since then, it has been an aspirational statement, reflecting standards that many men strive to achieve.

But turn on the news today and it’s easy to believe that men are not at their best. Many find themselves at a crossroads, caught between the past and a new era of masculinity. While it is clear that changes are needed, where and how we can start to effect that change is less obvious for many. And when the changes needed seem so monumental, it can feel daunting to begin. So, let’s do it together.

It’s time we acknowledge that brands, like ours, play a role in influencing culture. And as a company that encourages men to be their best, we have a responsibility to make sure we are promoting positive, attainable, inclusive and healthy versions of what it means to be a man. With that in mind, we have spent the last few months taking a hard look at our past and coming communication and reflecting on the types of men and behaviors we want to celebrate. We’re inviting all men along this journey with us – to strive to be better, to make us better, and to help each other be better.

From today on, we pledge to actively challenge the stereotypes and expectations of what it means to be a man everywhere you see Gillette. In the ads we run, the images we publish to social media, the words we choose, and so much more.

As part of The Best Men Can Be campaign, Gillette is committing to donate $1 million per year for the next three years to non-profit organizations executing programs in the United States designed to inspire, educate and help men of all ages achieve their personal “best” and become role models for the next generation.

Our tagline needs to continue to inspire us all to be better every day, and to help create a new standard for boys to admire and for men to achieve… Because the boys of today are the men of tomorrow.

We’ve all got work to do. And it starts today.

Gillette. The Best A Man Can Get.

Well done Gillette.

126 comments on “Well done Gillette ”

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  1. ropata 1
    16 January 2019 at 4:53 pm

    There’s a disturbing narrative at play amongst the western intelligentsia

    https://twitter.com/ropata/status/1085165701193641984

  2. joe90 2
    16 January 2019 at 5:17 pm

    When I first read about the ad I thought a few RWNJs and manly man red pillers would spit the dummy but I didn’t imagine just how bitter and twisted they’d get.

    And next time the right pisses and moans about BDS and the like – BoycottGillette.

    Comments on the video are largely negative, with viewers saying they will never buy Gillette products again or that the advert was “feminist propaganda”.

    “In less than two minutes you managed to alienate your biggest sales group for your products. Well done,” wrote one angry viewer.

    Twitter users are also sharing their disappointment with Gillette’s new campaign.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46874617

    • Sacha 2.1
      16 January 2019 at 9:51 pm

      For an advert featuring men being good, it really is pushing some buttons.

    • Kevin 2.2
      25 January 2019 at 11:10 pm

      I’m a leftist and proudly held the sobriquet of SJW but my SJWness is focused on economic social justice but this soft left-liberal fixation on identity politics & and turning it’s back on doing things to actually change things towards economic justice in society leave me cold. Many ‘Leftists’have abandoned the idea of workers solidarity across gender & race lines against the capitalist class/capitalism for upholding the feminist slogan of the sisterhood of women vs men/white male privilege/’the patriarchy’. Instead of capitalism being identified as the enemy of the workers it is a nebulous patriarchy that must be defeated. Is it not fair to be bitter & twisted in the face of continual assault from feminism/feminists?. Feminists supposedly preach equality yet there is no equality when it comes to child custody, reproductive rights, criminal sentencing etc ie women get a vagina discount and lesser sentences for same crimes as men. A woman can lie about sexual assault/rape, it be proven to be a lie yet she faces no or little repercussion while the man’s life is ruined. Innocent until proven guilty unless it’s a charge of sexual assault/rape and then he’s guilty by default. If the video was produced by a self-identified feminist is it not fair to call it ‘feminist propaganda’?

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    16 January 2019 at 5:22 pm

    oh well, a bunch of angry men will be looking for another brand to trim their hairy backs and knuckles with perhaps…

  4. Chris T 4
    16 January 2019 at 6:15 pm

    If I wanted a global corporate company preaching at me, I would join the Catholic Church.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    16 January 2019 at 6:37 pm

    Those angered ought to grow facial hair as a protest! Encouraging men to behave appropriately is a waste of time. You can’t put courage into those who lack it. They were born defective. It’s why so many rightists are arse-lickers.

    I think Gillette are right about the necessity of positive male role models, but funding their development is a strategy based on a misconception of human nature. They ought to test the viability first, and measure the proportion of test subjects who do actually morph into good men. Reminds me of all the times I’ve wondered why we never see the success percentage of prisoner rehabilitation in the media.

    • Chris T 5.1
      16 January 2019 at 6:44 pm

      It is telling your starting point of all blokes are bad blokes, having to “morph into good men”.

      It does nothing for the credibility of anything you say on this subject, but it is funny.

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 7:44 pm

        The reason I didn’t say what you think I said is because I don’t believe that. Better to comment on what people actually write here, rather than some hallucination that happened to be in your head at the time.

    • ropata 5.2
      16 January 2019 at 7:04 pm

      Blaming male role models when 85% of teachers are female and 45% of kids grow up without Dad around.

      No. It’s the “lack” of male role models, and endless vilification of males in the MSM.

      What do you idiots expect when you do tell boys they are shit*, and their only role in life is to produce money for others to spend.

      We are a product of evolution not a blank slate, and the phenomenon of male violence is more than a social issue. It’s embedded in our DNA and was necessary for the human race to survive and fend off competitors. Civilisation and Empire were founded on war and conquest.

      But as cognitive social creatures we have the power to choose not to be subservient to our base urges. We try and tame our young males to be obedient productive worker bees and expend their lives on endless toil instead.

      “Lethal violence is considered by some to be mostly a cultural trait… However, aggression in humans has a genetic component with high heritability. Consequently, it is widely acknowledged that evolution has also shaped human violence… But societies can also modify our innate tendencies. Modern societies (with police, law, prisons and cultural rejection of violence) have homicide rates of less than 1 in 10,000 deaths (or 0.01%) — about 200 times lower than the authors’ predictions for our state of nature.”

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/human-evolution-violence-instinct-to-kill-murder-each-other-a7335491.html

      * see the “men are trash” meme on twitter 🙄

      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1
        16 January 2019 at 7:41 pm

        “It’s the “lack” of male role models, and endless vilification of males in the MSM.” I agree there’s truth in that, but the way the All Blacks have developed the past 15 years or so has made them seem excellent counter-examples, eh? And I totally agree with your point about evolutionary origins of male violence.

      • DJ Ward 5.2.2
        16 January 2019 at 7:50 pm

        Yep, women still like the idea of keeping men as slaves.

        It’s not just Toxic stuff like expecting us to open doors, or pay for drinks, but the telling us we are a daddy when we’re not. Like I’ll equiped wet nurses, but worse, having to pay for the priveledge of having our resources sucked from us with property rulings as well. Raising the slave owners child but stopped from having our own.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.2.1
          16 January 2019 at 8:50 pm

          “Women and girls make up around 70% of all people in modern slavery“. Any reckons as to why it’s not 50:50? https://www.antislavery.org/future-women-freedom/

          “With an estimated 13,000 victims of human trafficking in the UK, a new report has found that a quarter of women rescued from modern slavery are pregnant and facing ‘shocking’ levels of danger and deprivation.” – Just trying to ‘trap‘ a man?

          https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/culture/news/a42202/modern-slavery-shocking-danger-charity/

          • DJ Ward 5.2.2.1.1
            16 January 2019 at 9:28 pm

            Estimated 13,000 in the UK.

            The version of slavery I mentioned is about 6,000 each year just in NZ.

            And the in bold TRAP word?

            Are you referring to women going shopping for there own personnel slave and “trapping” them into relationships, and forcing them into marriages by lying about contraception.

            Now there’s a real epidemic of slavery. You should have a look how terrifying the abuse must be in these slavery situations, the victims suicide in numbers that make domestic violence look like a side show.

            But all good. It’s only men. Plus they are toxic.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.2.1.1.1
              16 January 2019 at 9:48 pm

              Slave(s) (your word of choice) and slavery aren’t “all good”. I’m suggesting that there is a distinction between real slavery (as detailed in the two links), and the ‘slavery’ (really ‘relationship abuse’) that you are describing.

              Maybe you were taken advantage of (many men, and many more women, are), and that’s not on, but at least you’re in a position to learn from the experience and move on – I genuinely hope that you can.

              “Domestic abuse is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men against women and children, but men can also be victims of relationship abuse. Relationships in which men are the victims are often a well-kept secret.

              There are not many services specifically for men in this situation, however men can still get access to help and advice by calling Shine’s Domestic Abuse Helpline (0508 744 633) or the Are You OK? line (0800 456 450). They can refer you to local service providers in your area who can help.”

              http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/fp/va/pages/relationshipabuse.aspx

            • mpledger 5.2.2.1.1.2
              16 January 2019 at 9:58 pm

              We’re back to the 1950’s when men had to marry because their girlfriend was pregnant. The people forced into marriage nowadays aren’t men.

              You are responsible for your own ability to create life. If you don’t want to have a child then don’t rely on anyone else to manage that for you.

        • Psycho Milt 5.2.2.2
          17 January 2019 at 6:47 am

          Yep, women still like the idea of keeping men as slaves.

          Pretty crass and self-pitying comment when the reality is men keeping women as actual slaves, not rhetorical ones.

          It’s not just Toxic stuff like expecting us to open doors, or pay for drinks…

          Which decade are we talking about now? I’m 56 and haven’t noticed women expecting those things my entire adult life.

          …telling us we are a daddy when we’re not.

          Have you considered purchasing some condoms? Very handy things, help protect against disease too.

        • Gabby 5.2.2.3
          17 January 2019 at 2:08 pm

          Jeez warty, just put the far king toilet seat down. I won’t tell anyone you big man you.

      • One Two 5.2.3
        16 January 2019 at 9:56 pm

        That is well stated, Ropata…

  6. ropata 6
    16 January 2019 at 6:44 pm

    Here’s an interesting piece approving of the Gillette ad but concluding its ultimate target is actually women – the author actually cried when she first saw the ad!

    https://twitter.com/annaspargoryan/status/1085348362205851653

  7. Sacha 7
    16 January 2019 at 7:05 pm

    Quite. Who does the household shopping?

    • Chris T 7.1
      16 January 2019 at 7:20 pm

      Me and 90% of the cooking, and the lawn, fix appliances, electronics etc.

      Wife does the washing, most other household stuff, but cleans the car and does the gardening.

      • Chris 7.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 7:39 pm

        Wow, you’re amazing.

        • Chris T 7.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 7:45 pm

          Not at all.

          It is just a normal relationship where things are done the best to make it work.

          She hates supermarkets, I don’t care. I like cooking, she likes my food, She likes gardening, I hate it, Electrical stuff she is no good at, I am.

          It ain’t that unusual

      • Rapunzel 7.1.2
        17 January 2019 at 7:44 am

        “fix appliances, electronics etc” come on that’s hardly a weekly or even monthly task surely – maybe they need replacing if they take up that much time.

  8. DJ Ward 8
    16 January 2019 at 9:37 pm

    Anybody willing to take a bet this was created by a person hired in a gender equality in positions of authority, feminist movement, success story.

    Not a hired because the were the best candidate person.

    • Sacha 8.1
      16 January 2019 at 9:46 pm

      Adverts are created by teams of people.

      • DJ Ward 8.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 10:17 pm

        The person in charge of this marketing. The person responsible. The big cheese. The matriarch.

        • marty mars 8.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 10:30 pm

          lol you don’t really have a clue about how ads for giant international companies are made, do you.

        • McFlock 8.1.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 10:43 pm

          Even if the “person in charge of this marketing” were female, a global campaign gets run by the board – which is quite the sausagefest.

          Corporations are all about the dollars. This is why the campaign signals hope for society – Gillette & Proctor&Gamble think this approach will get a boost in sales.

          The whinging broflakes just amplify the advertising, for free.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.3
          16 January 2019 at 10:48 pm

          Pankaj Bhalla, Gillette’s North America brand director, undergoes gender reassignment surgery to conform to DJ Ward’s ‘matriarch preconceptions‘.

          “But it’s 2019, so here’s an incredibly exhausting sentence to write: the commercial sparked a wave of anger among conservatives and men’s rights activists that crested with a tweet from British TV personality and professional blowhard Piers Morgan that reads, “Let’s be clear: @gillette now wants every man to take one of their razors & cut off his testicles.” (Gillette: need a new tagline?)”

          “The new ad’s strongest moment comes when Gillette turns its famous slogan into a question: “Is this the best a man can get?” It’s hard not to take a look at the responses from hate groups and people like Morgan and answer, unequivocally: no. At least not yet.”

          https://www.gq.com/story/gillette-commercial-preposterous-backlash

  9. Infused 9
    16 January 2019 at 9:45 pm

    Its bullshit of the highest order. Continuing the theme of men are assholes and the problem with the world.

    The reason this has backfired is because people have had enough of this shit.

    If you fall for this marketing ploy you’re dumb as a plank

  10. One Two 10
    16 January 2019 at 9:52 pm

    Well done Gillete

    Absolutely Not!

    The message is negative…not seeing that, is a real problem…

    Divide and conquer 101…

    • marty mars 10.1
      16 January 2019 at 10:32 pm

      The message is positive NOT negative. No wonder you are struggling to understand it all.

      • One Two 10.1.1
        17 January 2019 at 8:22 am

        That’s ok Marty…

        You can interpret the messaging from Proctor & Gamble in any way you so choose…

        I’ll do the same…and so will others…

        Don’t project your struggles with simple concepts, in my direction…

        • marty mars 10.1.1.1
          17 January 2019 at 8:25 am

          Yes I agree – keep at it and the knowledge will come – good that you don’t give up when the concepts are challenging.

          • One Two 10.1.1.1.1
            17 January 2019 at 8:37 am

            Challenging…

            No, not in the slightest… the opposite in-fact…

            You’re still projecting…

    • Sacha 10.2
      17 January 2019 at 8:43 am

      “The message is negative”

      What is the message?

      • One Two 10.2.1
        17 January 2019 at 11:30 am

        Corporate exploitation…

        Same as it has always been!

        • marty mars 10.2.1.1
          17 January 2019 at 12:38 pm

          Who is being exploited?

          • One Two 10.2.1.1.1
            17 January 2019 at 12:49 pm

            Come on Marty, you can figure it out for yourself…there are many levels of exploitation going on, and I am not going to do your ‘thinking’ for you…

            I will give you a pointer….

            Not just ‘who’, but also what/where/when/how….

            • marty mars 10.2.1.1.1.1
              17 January 2019 at 10:49 pm

              Yeah I thought you didn’t have a clue – everyone is getting exploited woo woo thisisnot news.

              The fact is this exploitative international company has done something positive. It doesn’t negate their bullshit. They still do lots wrong. Why not celebrate that they are making noise about disgusting toxic masculinity and remarkably offering alternatives and all to make money and sell product by people believing their ad is somehow representative of the corporation. I’m not sure who you think is getting the wool pulled over their eyes – from my position it appears to be you.

              • One Two …
                19 January 2019 at 4:11 pm

                The core business is built on exploitation…therefore the message is cynically opportunistic and comes from a dishonest starting point…

                ‘Celebrate’….nah…I’ll leave that to yourself and others who can’t tell night from day…and who exhibit hypocritical tenancies…

                That you have the nerve to use language such as ‘disgusting toxic masculinity’…while as a regular feature of your comments, abuse other commentators.. as you did to ropata and snz just yesterday…

                No surprise from your position it appears like other people are, ‘clueless’…

                Pure projection on your part!

  11. Ovid 11
    16 January 2019 at 10:02 pm

    I don’t care whether men buy Gillette or not. I just get whatever disposables are on special. But honestly, I find the snivelling sense of victimhood over a mere advertisement to be profoundly unmanly in itself. Like a hoard of Joffrey Baratheons have taken to the Internet and there’s not a lot of Ned Starks around.

    I think masculinity when fully realised is a wonderful, positive thing. It endows men with a sense of justice and appreciation of the inherent dignity of all people which leads us to protecting those who can’t protect themselves.

    This is the kind of thing I admire and aspire to in my lifelong project to be a better man. And that’s the kind of behaviour I saw elevated in the ad.

    Take the time to look at this Jungian interpretation, you’ll see what I mean.

    https://youtu.be/UlKuE7jm0WM

    • ropata 11.1
      17 January 2019 at 11:41 pm

      Excellent clip, the narrator states that suppressing the warrior archetype (intrinsic to human nature) means it is more likely to surface in a darker form.

      Which gets to the core of the problem with current discourse.

  12. AB 12
    16 January 2019 at 11:04 pm

    As a man I wasn’t in the least offended by the ad, nor did I feel even slightly targeted or victimised by it. It’s just a re-hashing of a fairly commonplace piece of conventional wisdom. Like all conventional wisdom it is an over-simplification, but with more than a few grains of truth. So far, so ‘ho hum’.

    I thought it was pretty corny and embarrassing though. I guess anything done by ad agency ‘creatives’ with an explicit ‘message’ in mind, is going to be crap from a literary/artistic standpoint.

    Only one thing pissed me off – that a multinational corporation has the money/power/reach to get everyone talking about their well-meaning pap – while the rest of us go comparatively voiceless.

    • KJT 12.1
      17 January 2019 at 1:10 pm

      Corny, yes. Offensive no.

      As far as I’m concerned, and many if not most of my generation.

      Real men.
      1. Respect and look after women. (Maybe in a paternalistic way compared with today. We are learning, slowly! But being disrespectful and/or harming women and children is a definite no).
      2. Protect people. (Stand up for those that are being bullied, and those who are not as strong).
      3. Value fairness and equality of opportunity.
      4. Will do anything needed for their family.
      5. Get upset. Cry.

      The strength of some reactions were a bit telling. Reminds me of the blokes who are scared of being thought, gay!

      BTW. We just bought a giant BBQ. Not me, my wife and daughter. 🙂

  13. mpledger 13
    16 January 2019 at 11:21 pm

    Gillette want to give one million dollars away to groups helping men. Of course they have to make men look like they have a problem or else why give them the money.

    So when are they going to give one million to groups helping women? Women use razors too.

  14. McFlock 14
    17 January 2019 at 12:18 am

    Interestingly, it doesn’t just seem to be P&G.

    Saw a Jim Beam ad a few times tonight – where a crowd of mostly men “stand up for what’s right.

    Not as direct as Gillette, but still, it seems that international corporations have identified something about marketing and men.

    • ropata 14.1
      17 January 2019 at 8:42 pm

      They are beginning to target the Millennial generation and us GenX and older codgers find it a bit jarring. A new set of cultural assumptions that don’t quite add up

  15. RedLogix 15
    17 January 2019 at 6:24 am

    Interesting moment; weird that a mere advert should become such a lightening rod. If this cultural conversation was a relationship, it could only be described as a dysfunctional one.

  16. Psycho Milt 16
    17 January 2019 at 6:37 am

    It’s pretty funny to watch the conservative’s responses.

    Gillette: “Being a man doesn’t mean being an asshole.”

    Affronted Tory: “They’re scolding me!”

    So, you recognised yourself when they were talking about men who are assholes, huh?

    • RedLogix 16.1
      17 January 2019 at 7:25 am

      Try using that line of reasoning next time your partner disagrees with something you say … let us know how you get on. 🙂

  17. Ross 17
    17 January 2019 at 7:03 am

    Young boys really shouldn’t be playing with razors.

    And I never realised men have so many barbecues. 🙂

  18. Sanctuary 18
    17 January 2019 at 7:36 am

    If you don’t watch TV, read trash press or listen to shock jock radio then you won’t see the ad and you won’t hear any of the the whining.

    Problem solved.

  19. Sacha 19
    17 January 2019 at 7:47 am

    Another standard for ‘boys will be boys’: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12191435

    He said his sons were good boys – but conceded they had been involved in police pursuits and had stolen cars in the past.

    “They were just kids,” he said. “They were just boys doing what boys do.
    …

    Craig Mcallister said dental records were being used to identify the three boys due to the severity of the crash and fire. It is believed his son Glen was driving.

    “They had been doing skids out the back of their mother’s place about half an hour
    before the crash,” he said.

    • Ross 19.1
      17 January 2019 at 7:59 am

      But in the other thread the boys were generally defended, and the cops were to blame for their deaths. It’s always heartening when one prejudice (anti male) is defeated by an even bigger prejudice (anti police). 🙂

    • Dennis Frank 19.2
      17 January 2019 at 8:06 am

      But look on the bright side. Strong contenders for a darwin award. Self-deletion from the gene pool before reproduction, to raise the average quality of the whole. The father ought to be proud of the noble sacrifice…

    • Gabby 19.3
      17 January 2019 at 2:16 pm

      I wonder if Craig’s reassessing his parenting endeavours now.

  20. francesca 20
    17 January 2019 at 8:56 am

    Procter and Gamble are hardly the moral conscience of the world
    Shamelessly seeking to cash in on shifting mores, as long as no one looks closer to their labour practices and environmental record

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Procter_&_Gamble:_Corporate_Crimes

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/21/pepsico-unilever-and-nestle-accused-of-complicity-in-illegal-rainforest-destruction

    Morals outsourced to mega corporations …lets celebrate!

  21. solkta 21
    17 January 2019 at 9:00 am

    It is refreshing to have a reason to keep buying a corporate product rather than to boycott them. Good work Gillette. Great razors too.

    The reaction shows just how much this sort of thing is needed.

    • Kevin 21.1
      25 January 2019 at 11:24 pm

      So you’ll just ignore their child labour exploitation & low wages to Asian employees. Too many fake leftists ready to praise a corporation for it’s wokeness pushing feminist woman-supremacist agenda while ignoring their economic & environmental crimes.

  22. Brutus Iscariot 22
    17 January 2019 at 10:08 am

    What’s the difference between this ad, and a hypothetical ad telling Maori that they need to get their shit together, get a job and lower their crime rate?

    That’s the point, that males are the only acceptable demographic group to collectively attack/lecture/patronise.

    • AB 22.1
      17 January 2019 at 10:54 am

      There is a difference between the strong lecturing the weak, and the weak shouting in desperation at the strong.
      But I acknowledge that everything is as mixed as hell – and nothing is a simple binary.

      • Brutus Iscariot 22.1.1
        17 January 2019 at 10:57 am

        Not every male i know is strong. How about treating people as individuals, rather than implying some sort of hivemind action on behalf of amorphous demographic groups.

        • Sacha 22.1.1.1
          17 January 2019 at 11:08 am

          The actions the ad is showing that men can do are entirely individual. How is ‘your son watches what you do’ such a threatening message?

          • Brutus Iscariot 22.1.1.1.1
            17 January 2019 at 11:43 am

            I think the problem is that it’s a seller of razors lecturing on morality and behaviour.

            Maybe we have reached the apex of consumerism – personal hygiene company replaces Church as the arbiter of good and evil.

            • RedLogix 22.1.1.1.1.1
              17 January 2019 at 11:59 am

              Yeah … you have to be impressed at how Gillette have progressed from being a shaving company to a shaming one.

              While frame by frame there is nothing too much wrong with the ad, as a whole in the current cultural context it’s “problematic”. And cartoonishly oversimplified.

              • marty mars …
                17 January 2019 at 12:33 pm

                Yet many many men are saying good stuff – seems they and me find the identification of toxic masculinity refreshing and helpful.

                • One Two …
                  17 January 2019 at 12:44 pm

                  You and they, find messaging delivered by a corporation with a negative track record of human and environmental exploitation, that is blatantly exploiting a marketing opportunity… to be refreshing and helpful…

                  Proctor & Gamble offering counsel on social behaviour….is extremely hypocritical….

                  Seems that many men don’t like to think too much…

                • RedLogix …
                  17 January 2019 at 12:48 pm

                  If you like it then well and good; I’m totally happy to respect your individual take on it.

                  The problem comes when we lump whole demographics into monolithic identity groups, erasing individual differences and experiences, ‘shorn’ as it were of all nuance. And then assigning them all a collective toxic guilt.

                  Not everyone wants to buy into that.

                  • marty mars …
                    17 January 2019 at 1:24 pm

                    I think the problem isn’t generalizations – I think everyone understands how they work. They offer an angle of understanding but some men appear so fearful of being ‘caught out’ they jump at shadows – and that is their right but hardly helpful in these discussions imo.

              • Ross …
                17 January 2019 at 12:39 pm

                So true about the cartoonish comment.

                I feel like I need to own a barbecue to be a real man. Maybe it’s an American thing.

                • RedLogix …
                  17 January 2019 at 12:50 pm

                  Really very Australian.

                  And I have to confess due to a peculiar set of circumstances, I’ve finally become the proud owner of my very first BBQ just last week 🙂

                  I may need lessons ….

        • KJT 22.1.1.2
          17 January 2019 at 1:16 pm

          When you see the effect of expectations of stoic and unfeeling masculinity on young boys, and girls, and the damage it does, the dialogue does need to change.

          Those kids in the car crash, are likely a good example of the damage. As are the gung ho cops, who will remember it, for the rest of their lives.

          At least acknowledge when a corporation does some good, amoungst all the harm.

          • RedLogix 22.1.1.2.1
            17 January 2019 at 2:03 pm

            expectations of stoic and unfeeling masculinity

            Taken to an extreme that kind of ‘staunch’ behaviour really is repellent, often dangerous. But in general it’s true that men are more aggressive and performance oriented on average than women. We’re more competitive and more likely to take risks.

            Yet you have to ask why? Why are men the way they are? Why are they the performative sex, expected to take the initiative, work hard, self-sacrifice and not complain if it goes wrong?

            Consider the Superman archetype stories; how Louis Lane was always hoping for Superman to open up and let down the guard on his ‘stoic unfeeling masculinity’ …. yet she was totally uninterested in Clark Kent’s inner life and yearnings. Most men learn this lesson very quickly in life, the women in their lives often react very badly if any display of emotion or feelings is interpreted as weakness.

            And given that women have sexually selected for successful, high performing males for millions of years, is it any surprise evolution has done it’s work on us as a gender. Note carefully; I’m not blaming anyone for this; biology cared only about the propagation of our genes … but it does suggest there is more to this story than a superficial advert for razors might be able to convey.

            • francesca 22.1.1.2.1.1
              17 January 2019 at 3:13 pm

              And largely the dispensable cannon fodder fed in to war machines.
              Where’s the mention of toxic masculinity deliberately encouraged ,amped up and put to the service of American militarism .

              http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1153449

              • One Two …
                17 January 2019 at 3:39 pm

                It is all so shamelessly transparent…

                However, it is understandable that people are looking for signs of positive change…

                Corporate grandstanding as a marketing strategy, and the take over of ‘charity’ are one and the same….and they are not the positive change IMO…they are opportunists of the most cynical variety…

                Every single person on this planet is being abused in some way or other…and that is the biggest elephant in the room being ignored by ‘they ‘ who seek to identify, and then decide* which the plaintiffs and defendants are…

                Meanwhile, ‘the suck’, its business partners, affiliates and sponsors continue the greatest abuses in recorded history….

                * Decide, as directed by the profit seeking corporate vandals who exist on exploitation, at the expense of all else…

            • KJT 22.1.1.2.1.2
              17 January 2019 at 7:00 pm

              True. Too an extent.

              I’ve noticed with some very tough successful men, that it is the women in their lives who are the least supportive, if it turns to shit.
              Their social expectations, of strength and reliability, are threatened.

              Had beers with enough of them.

              However that is a societal expectation of masculine superhuman stoic ness, lack of emotion in a crisis, and strength, which both men and women have internalised.

              Reinforced every day in popular culture.

              Unfortunately it leaves boys, and men, with little to fall back on.

              We do need to bring up boys to know that being upset at times, uncertain and not always all powerful, is the norm for most of us.
              Resilience and coping skills are something women learn, at a young age, not young men! It is implied they don’t need them.

              How many car accidents/police chases, with young males involved, are “suicide by car”.

              • RedLogix …
                17 January 2019 at 9:54 pm

                that it is the women in their lives who are the least supportive, if it turns to shit.

                How many times have we seen that; lose job/business/farm, lose wife and family. Here in Australia it’s 6 or 7 men suiciding every damned day. A hell of a lot of them farmers and tradies.

                How many car accidents/police chases, with young males involved, are “suicide by car”.

                Odd you should mention that. Some years back in the 90’s I was the first on the scene of a fatal accident in Lower Hutt. He’d managed to hit three different buildings over a 150m stretch and stopped hard on a roadside transformer.

                When I peered into the wreck the entire top half of his skull was missing. I phoned 111 and pointed out there was no real hurry on the ambulance. When the cops got there, one of them said to me “We wondered where he’d finish up”. (There was no chase involved, but apparently there was an incident earlier in the afternoon.)

                So yes I’d agree, suicide by car is probably a lot more common than we think. And yes it’s because in many instances they have nowhere safe to turn.

      • Kevin 22.1.2
        25 January 2019 at 11:29 pm

        Imagine a tampon ad where they call on women to restrain other women from toxic femininity of false allegations of rape/sexual assault, divorce-rape, paternity fraud, child abuse, rape & murder.

  23. Sacha 23
    17 January 2019 at 10:51 am

    No wonder it is hard for people to make sense of what is happening when media exaggerates a small number of extreme voices (read the thread of tweets that follow this one): https://twitter.com/a9ri/status/1085177058135810048

  24. Sacha 24
    17 January 2019 at 11:06 am

    ‘Unlike women, men aren’t used to seeing an ad urging them to change bad habits’
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gillette-ad-toxic-masculinity-outrage-1.4979651

  25. Ross 25
    17 January 2019 at 12:20 pm

    I see the same people who thought David Cunliffe apologising for being a man was ok (which was ultimately a factor that led to his demise) don’t see a problem with this ad either.

    There’s nothing wrong with the message per se – it’s the way it’s delivered. Men are being sick of being told to stop the molestation and rape when they’re not responsible for it.

    Go and google the original ad from 1989 and see how the message is vastly different. Ironically, the old message is congruent with their new message, except the complete absence of virtue signalling.

    • Psycho Milt 25.1
      17 January 2019 at 12:29 pm

      The message in the 1989 ad certainly is different, but it’s odd you didn’t notice that, like the current ad, it gives you a lecture on what Gillette considered at the time to be manly virtues.

      • Ross 25.1.1
        17 January 2019 at 12:33 pm

        Both ads are telling men to be the best they can be – except one also tells men they should stop with the whole rape thing. That’s the difference in delivery.

        • McFlock 25.1.1.1
          17 January 2019 at 12:38 pm

          It’s ok, another brand will pick up the alienated men with their new slogan “nine out of ten rapists prefer our razors”.

          • Ross 25.1.1.1.1
            17 January 2019 at 12:44 pm

            It sounds like you’ve repented enough for all the rapists out there anyway… the rest of us men who don’t require overt guidance from a virtue signalling conglomerate will just continue to be stand-up blokes and treat women with the respect we know they deserve.

            • McFlock 25.1.1.1.1.1
              17 January 2019 at 1:01 pm

              Sounds like you’ll be expecting someone to cook the man some fucking eggs soon.

            • Psycho Milt 25.1.1.1.1.2
              17 January 2019 at 3:18 pm

              …treat women with the respect we know they deserve.

              See, there’s your problem right there.

              Polonius: My lord, I will use them according to their desert.

              Hamlet: Use every man after his desert, and who should ‘scape whipping? … Treat them with honor and dignity.

    • Brutus Iscariot 25.2
      17 January 2019 at 12:38 pm

      We don’t just need to be good ourselves, we’re also responsible for the behaviour of any other Homo Sapiens with a penis.

  26. Instauration 26
    19 January 2019 at 6:38 pm

    Yep – I’m Male – Shave – but use Spieck Rasierschaum – cos I minimise USA content in my family life.
    However I’m very comfortable with a philosophy that has a bottom line of not “Bettering others” – Gillette is now doing this well.
    “Better” and “Beat” are the same in meme.
    Beat – well, men shouldn’t !

  27. SHG 27
    19 January 2019 at 11:10 pm

    Advertising agency makes ad to get attention, gets attention

    more at 11

  28. Kevin 28
    25 January 2019 at 10:54 pm

    Ah no, just no . Not good on Gillette at all, rather shame on Gillette. Saying masculinity is toxic and holding all men responsible for other men’s behaviour. Ignoring that behaviour does not have gender …women abuse, assault, kill children & partners. A huge chunk of domestic abuse, child abuse & child killing done by women yet where is the shaming re toxic femininity?

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