What are National’s constituent tribes?

25 comments on “What are National’s constituent tribes? ”

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1. Roy Cartland 1

   23 October 2022 at 11:54 am

   Is the 'sport at any cost' bunch, like the old pro-springbok-tour cabal still a thing these days? Yachting, motor-sport, the rowers in that old national ad?
2. Shanreagh 2

   23 October 2022 at 12:19 pm

   1 I don't know if the automatically anti every good idea that comes from the centre left is a tribe of its own or part of the machine politicians.

   2 Where do the 'good old boys' fit in? Uffindell et al? Emphasis on boys ie male?

   My dad was a Nat through and through, my ex husband also though he has now switched to Labor in Aus. In those days Nat was a a broad church. It was comfortable with having a wider group of people in it and around it than now. Whether this was because there were few other parties so people had to sit where they felt more comfortable but now can feel more comfortable in ACT, NZ First or the Maori Party as you say.

   3 I don't know if the let them eat cake is part of the machine politicians? A stark staring lack of knowledge of how others live, and an unwillingness to find out or give credence to these views? So we get an idea that philanthropists will become part of Govt so Govt does not have to? Max Rashbrooke on Willis' plan for social investment. I call these ones the let them eat cake brigade

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/130243992/max-rashbrooke-nationals-new-social-plan-goes-back-to-the-future–but-is-that-a-bad-thing
3. Stephen D 3

   23 October 2022 at 12:49 pm

   MMP makes the difference.

   Under FPP, which GB has, a broad church usually works. But under MMP factions can split, but still be a coalition partner. If we still had FPP David Seymour, and possibly Winston would still be in the National Party.
   • Shanreagh 3.1

     23 October 2022 at 2:54 pm

     Yes you are quite correct with the impact of MMP, long may it continue.
4. Shanreagh 4

   23 October 2022 at 2:53 pm

   What about the 'Sleepy boys at the wheel tribe', like the guy in the picture?

   These are kin to those who would vote for a dog (NB in deference to Patricia B I have not put the breed in this time) sitting on a letter box if it had a blue ribbon around its neck……or like John Key would have voted for Trump or Bolsanaro ie no discernment to see if the person was a 'good' person or an evil person (Bolsanaro) or just a nut job (Trump) as well as being right ring. My Dad, a fervent Nat, did not vote for nut jobs even if they were right wing) .
5. Stuart Munro 5

   23 October 2022 at 3:27 pm

   Wild eyed libertarians is a bit tame for ACT – the original swivel-eyed loons is punchier, for all that they may lack an ornithological connection.

   A fairly new National tribe is the Pollutocrats – wealthy neocolonial dairy intensifiers and aquifer drainers employing sub-minimum wage foreign peons to operate CAFO style megafarms. Notable members are the Shipleys and la perfide Anglais – the English tribe. Might be a few seth aefrikans among them too.
   • Shanreagh 5.1

     23 October 2022 at 10:24 pm

     Brilliant.

     Pollutocrats

     Seth Aefrikans
   • Hunter Thompson II 5.2

     24 October 2022 at 9:16 am

     You are 100% correct about the dairying element – check out "Special Investigation: Adams Family Values" on the Scoop website (2014).
6. roblogic 6

   23 October 2022 at 4:57 pm

   What you uncharitably label as "xenophobia" I would call localism, or concern for the wellbeing of the people of Aotearoa ahead of the demands of international corporations or businesses predicated on the exploitation of cheap foreign labour.

   And there is sadly little of that. My perception is that a large part of National come from the corporate world and they are working on behalf of international capital – and would gladly sell their grandmothers if it meant a pat on the head from their masters. John Key being the worst example. But Judith Collins and Christopher Luxon have the same globalist perspective.

   Josh Van Veen called this class the "Anywheres", i.e. the transnational professional managerial class.

   As opposed to the "Somewheres", often portrayed as bigoted reactionaries, but are simply expressing the human need for a turangawaewae (place to stand) of their own. And this dream is increasingly being taken away by the behaviour of the Anywheres and their floating capital causing an escalation in housing costs
   • swordfish 6.1

     23 October 2022 at 5:45 pm

     Josh Van Veen called this class the "Anywheres", i.e. the transnational professional managerial class. As opposed to the "Somewheres"

     The theory & terminology didn't actually originate with Van Veen … he was explicitly referring to the ideas of British journalist & social commentator David Goodhart.
     • fender 6.1.1

       23 October 2022 at 7:50 pm

       Well, thanks for woking us up to that!
       • swordfish 6.1.1.1

         23 October 2022 at 9:26 pm

         .

         I've had it up to here with your constant abuse of the rather pleasant north-west Surrey town of Woking. What's next ? … ruthlessly taking the piss out of Basingstoke ??? … an all-out assault on Budleigh Salterton ???
         • roblogic 6.1.1.1.1

           23 October 2022 at 10:14 pm

           Scunthorpe is usually triggering
           • Shanreagh 6.1.1.1.1.1

             23 October 2022 at 10:27 pm

             'ear 'ear…..

             Why the Hull you talkin' about Scunthorpe like that?
           • swordfish 6.1.1.1.1.2

             24 October 2022 at 12:40 am

             .

             Keegan & Clemence's original club, mind.
7. roblogic 7

   23 October 2022 at 5:05 pm

   The Farming/ Groundswell/ VFF lobby is playing to the darker Trumpist tendencies of the electorate and I expect National to try and hoover up some of the resentful conspiracy addled antivaxx crowd. It will be a horrendously racist fearmongering election using all the tricks of Dirty Politics
8. Alan 8

   23 October 2022 at 5:17 pm

   I've noticed another tribe, the "get rich easy" brigade.

   They study Political Science at University, join the Young Nats, become a party hack, get nominated as a candidate, become a backbencher and then after a couple of terms as Minister, quit politics and find a lucrative Company Directorship in some related area that will give them a lifelong income – all before the age of 50.
   • Patricia Bremner 8.1

     23 October 2022 at 6:23 pm

     The "Old boys club." See Shangreah's comment @ 2. Inherited money and contacts.
9. X Socialist 9

   23 October 2022 at 6:54 pm

   Yep, action beats whining hands down.
10. Anne 10

    23 October 2022 at 7:52 pm

    I'm not a policy geek like many standardistas and I value and admire those of you who are so well informed in this regard. But given the various "tribes" it seems to me there is one thing they all have in common:

    The Nats are so one eyed! They seem unwilling to differentiate between the competing sectors of society and appreciate that situations are not all the same and require nuanced policy decision making. It is always a one size fits all approach from them, and that side invariably favours their own kind with scant attention to anyone else. In short they're selfish and self centred.

    Hence we end up with an uneven populace where some get it all and others get nothing. Labour then has to come in and try to sort it out, which leaves the haves up in arms because they have to share the pie with the have-nots.

    A never ending vicious cycle which not even MMP can resolve.
    • roblogic 10.1

      23 October 2022 at 9:45 pm

      and they are born to rule toffs who resent the lower classes and hate paying tax
    • Shanreagh 10.2

      23 October 2022 at 10:38 pm

      Good points Anne.

      I used to wonder at this given that many are quasi religious.

      But then the religious belong to the 'prosperity at all costs church' that makes a virtue out of acquisition of wealth and then forgets about any obligation to share or to reflect

      'there but for the grace of God go I …..' about one's fellows.
11. Martin C 11

    23 October 2022 at 8:46 pm

    Federated Farmers

    Business New Zealand

    Union of Taxpayers

    NZ Police Association [?]
12. bwaghorn 12

    24 October 2022 at 7:32 am

    old money

    new money

    wants money

    god botherers

    repressed haters
13. UncookedSelachimorpha 13

    25 October 2022 at 12:21 pm

    Not sure about the tribes.

    The people I know who actually vote for National are usually "admirers of wealth and success" – with definitions of "wealth and success" being measured in shallow economic and "winning" terms (e.g. being a billionaire or an All Black).

    Often these voters aren't as wealthy or successful as those they admire – but they are in the fan club.

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