Why is everything always Jacinda’s fault?

Written By: - Date published: 9:35 am, January 10th, 2023 - 57 comments
Categories: labour, Media, national, spin, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

I don’t know if the motivation was to increase social media interaction or just to have a go at the Government but the potentially most ridiculous article of the year has already been posted and we are only 10 days in.

Brook Sabin has posted this article blaming Jacinda Ardern and the Government for, wait for it, lost baggage at Auckland Airport.

He admits that the causes are complex but nevertheless insists that the Government steps in and sorts the situation out.  The last time I checked Auckland Airport was privately owned with Auckland Council being the only public entity shareholder.  If any elected official should step in it should be Auckland mayor Wayne Brown.  This did not stop Brook from blaming the Government while at the same time praising National MP Shane Reti for writing two letters.

As Sabin mentions:

This is a very complex issue that isn’t unique to New Zealand. It involves overseas storms and delays, staff shortages, multiple airlines and an influx of passengers after Covid-19. Auckland Airport is denying fault, saying the airlines and their baggage handlers need to explain. But somebody must take leadership of the issue – because it’s not under control.

Sabin is a self described travel journalist who writes puff pieces on places he has visited.  Before that he was a Political Reporter and played a prominent role in the Donghua Liu attack on David Cunliffe which caused Labour a great deal of damage in the leadup to the 2014 election.  Cunliffe was wrongly blamed for helping Donghua Liu and Labour was pilloried by the press for donations it did not receive.  It subsequently was revealed that at the relevant time National had received a significant donation from Liu and that this was effectively hidden so that it did not appear at the same time that Maurice Williamson was sacked as a Cabinet Minister for helping Liu avoid a prosecution for domestic violence.

As I said previously:

This whole fiasco could have cost Labour the election.  Rob Salmond estimates that it may have cost Labour 2% of the vote and I agree with this.  That is up to three seats and it sucked a lot of momentum out of the campaign.

And you want to know the really funny thing?  There is no evidence of a donation to Labour or of Labour breaking any rules to help Liu.  But there is now pristine evidence of National receiving a donation from Liu and of subsequent action taken by a National Minister to help Liu in a police prosecution that resulted in this Minister being sacked.

New Zealand you got played.

Sabin also excelled himself for his Labour is in Crisis reporting when he claimed that then leader Andrew Little not providing an instant response to the release of the 6,000 page TPP document

From my post at the time:

Andrew Little was said to have a major problem, the release of the TPP was a “six thousand page grenade thrown straight into the Labour Party conference”. The trade deal would “eventually” worth $2.7 billion dollars per year to the New Zealand economy (doncha love it when the media unquestionably adopts the Government spin).  And Labour was set to oppose the deal because it prevented New Zealanders from banning the sale of land to overseas persons.

Little was then attacked for being unable to “give a straight answer” on whether Labour opposed the deal.  Jesus Mary and Joseph.  The text has only just been released.  It is no normal document.  Every single page is full of mind numbing legalese.  It will take months and months for a well researched organisation to properly understand the implications.  Of course Labour will have to take some time to properly consider the implications.

Sabin is the son of former National MP Mike Sabin who resigned nominally for family matters.  Cameron Slater said at the time that allegations against Sabin were  almost too horrible for words.  His father was formerly the Northland MP which National lost to Winston Peters in the subsequent by election.

I half expect Christopher Luxon, if he is not in Te Kuiti or Hawaii, to be filmed with shirt sleeves rolled up sorting out people’s luggage at Auckland Airport next.  And Brook Sabin then reporting on how Luxon showed real leadership.

Of course sons of National MPs are entitled like the rest of us to earn a living.  But national media outlets ought to exercise a modicum of discretion in choosing what articles to run with.  Blaming the Government for problems in a private company that are happening throughout the world in the travel industry is beyond stupid.

57 comments on “Why is everything always Jacinda’s fault? ”

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  1. Muttonbird 1
    10 January 2023 at 9:45 am

    If you need more baggage staff, here's an idea: pay them more.

    Love this line from Brooke. His National Party of course have been vociferous in attacking all government measures to do exactly that, pay them more.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.1
      10 January 2023 at 1:04 pm

      The Natzos prospective partner ACT have already committed to freezing Minimum Wage rises for 3 years and repealing FPAs, so paying baggage handlers more is a rather remote possiblity–and a fatuous and deceptive statement from Mr Sabin.

  2. roblogic 2
    10 January 2023 at 10:20 am

    Some of the shit they are slinging reminds me of Dirty Politics, but this time it comes with a dose of nasty misogyny and anti-vax Q conspiracy bile.

    Jacinda haters are either irrational nutcases or cynical poisoners of discourse.

    https://twitter.com/jukic_d/status/1611867253825507330?s=46&t=u0_DKaD_eER48xFift3BYA

  3. Mike the Lefty 3
    10 January 2023 at 10:29 am

    The "Everything is Jacinda's fault" has taken on the mystical insanity of a medieval witch hunt and it reflects poorly on the National Party that they think it is OK to use this mentality for their own ends. After all, they purport to be a government in waiting comprised of intelligent rational people who surely know there are many things that happen that government cannot control. People that ally themselves to the rabid right loony brigade for political gain are not worthy of running this country, in my opinion.

    • AB 3.1
      10 January 2023 at 10:51 am

      reflects poorly on the National Party that they think it is OK to use this mentality for their own ends

      It's a continuum – at the margins, the establishment right (National) morphs into the fringe, conspiracy-constructing, hyper-libertarian, hyper-masculine right. So National probably just do stuff this seamlessly and unconsciously – it comes naturally without any planning or forethought.

  4. Shanreagh 4
    10 January 2023 at 10:32 am

    Reminds me of the attacks on the PM for the empty supermarket shelves and shortages during Covid that spurred me on to do a couple of sarcastic responses about her swinging herself on a XXX wheeler driving through the night to reach my supermarket to stock the shelves.

    Turns out she has been having a break and not doing her stint at the Auckland baggage area of Air NZ on the way through driving the XXX wheeler.

    Terrible Mildred, terrible I say.

  5. Westykev 5
    10 January 2023 at 10:53 am

    Unless Jacinda is the Minister of Transport she is not even mentioned in the linked article. The "baggage issue" at the Airport does have the potential to impact on our tourism industry and as such a please explain is in order.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.1
      10 January 2023 at 11:10 am

      "Please explain" should go to Mayor Brown.

      • Westykev 5.1.1
        10 January 2023 at 11:37 am

        Yes, with the Auckland City Council shareholding of 18% he probably should but a please explain by a government minister carries more weight.

      • Tiger Mountain 5.1.2
        10 January 2023 at 1:20 pm

        It should, and it would needle “Browny” because his answer to most things is sacking staff and reducing their conditions–which would go down well with an understaffed group that should be paid more!

        Mayor Brown’s attitude to workers is “Daily floggings will continue until morale improves”

  6. Patricia Bremner 6
    10 January 2023 at 11:09 am

    Any shortages muddles or staffing issues bring the latest meme. "What's Jacinda going to do about that?"

    This is intended to detract and obscure from what has been achieved.

    It is also "look over there!! Not here thank you" A way of deflecting attention from their own paucity of ideas.

    Some in the National camp believe the fight is won, but others know how these things can turn on a well placed rumour (as you indicated Micky)or an incident or funnelling of a meme such as " They have lost control of the Country".

    The right find Jacinda's success hugely galling, hence the attacks. They will intensify, and there could come a point where people become less apathetic and begin to fight back.

    Any situation of anger or frustration will be used by the right. One thing I know for sure.. they won't throw eggs, except metaphorically.

    Jacinda and her team need to develop strategies to overcome attacks, which will be, as Prince Harry says "Done by collaboration". We know all about that, as the press seem to know in advance what areas are being targeted next.

    We are in the fight of our lives. The climate and the young need us to win this one. So donate. You can be sure the right will have a war chest, not all of it from NZ I would think. Come on Labour and Greens, even if we win, it will be a much smaller team next Parliament. imo

  7. Corey Humm 7
    10 January 2023 at 12:15 pm

    It's stupid but it's not unique to Ardern.

    Everything is always the leaders fault. It feels good to blame someone sometimes.

    I remember blaming John Key for virtually everything wrong going on in my life and everyone else did too

    I remember an old lady on the news blaming John Key cos she got stuck up a hill during a snow day.

    "Thanks Obama" was so common it was a meme that everyone would blame Obama for everything.

    The leader is always to blame for everything.

    They love you for the first three years, after 4 years they are sick of you and by 5,6,7 years absolutely hate you.

    Arderns govt has been more deeply involved in our personal lives than any previous modern govt. Even non activist labour voters tell me 'its been a long 8 years" because they think this govt is in it's third term, that's how long these 5 years have felt.

    Ardern gets special mention because from social media, to international media, to live streams, to lockdowns, daily press conferences, the terrorist attack, legislating everything from hate speech to rain water to flavors of vape juice and cigarettes no govt has ever felt so actively involved in our personal lives so when we can't get out of our driveway cos of roadworks for six months, or when we can't get an egg it's Arderns fault.

    I will say the airport thing is especially weird but again, the longer you're in the more you're blamed for, the more you're involved with the day to day lives of the public and the less those day to day lives are improving, the more they are gonna resent you and blame you.

    This is why , I wish we'd go back to having boring, unpopular prime ministers who stay in the background doing work 99% of the time and aren't on our screens all day everyday, in photography the more exposure you're subject gets the quicker it burns and that's true with celebrities and polis

    • Muttonbird 7.1
      10 January 2023 at 1:08 pm

      Funny that because I haven't heard a peep out of the government, its leader, ministers, or MPs since before Christmas. But hardly a day has gone by in that time where we haven't seen some opposition MP publicising themselves.

    • Tiger Mountain 7.2
      11 January 2023 at 3:50 pm

      As a long time politics participant and news follower I see things a little differently, but I like your post above Corey because it describes a certain group of New Zealanders non thinking ways very well. And as you say other countries populaces as well.

      I don’t give one about the middle class and petit bourgeoisie who got their second tier more generous COVID MSD benefits without having to battle case managers, and got two years of media wailing for their cafes to be opened and travel plans accommodated.
      Am more interested in involving the alienated, non and intermittent voters and new gen voters.

  8. Kat 8
    10 January 2023 at 12:25 pm

    It's the old death by a thousand cuts trick……and then the slurs and slogans are lit up…..shambolic, wasteful, out of control, communist, iwi lovers, anti business, anti farmer, never had a real job, elitist, out of touch, soft on crime, time for a change……blah blah blah……..

    And then it's….. vote National for a brighter future…….yeah right

  9. tsmithfield 9
    10 January 2023 at 12:25 pm

    I won't say much about the aricle referred to here, other than it does seem a bit silly.

    However, it probably isn't surprising that Ardern would be the target of the opposition, given that the popularity of Labour seems to have been tied very much to the popularity of Adern since she was elected. Hence, I suspect the logic would be to undermine Labour, first undermine Ardern.

  10. Peter 10
    10 January 2023 at 12:27 pm

    Ardern only needs to look in a certain direction and some have her the worst dictator in the history of the world.

    People don't want the government to be in charge of anything, so the government is not in charge of everything.

    But suddenly sometimes we want them to be in charge so we can blame them. Crazy.

    This year is going to be a real doozy. The media crap with it being election year is going to be the worst ever. It's going to be a fractured and divisive time but the nonsense from the likes of Sabin need to be called out. Not doing so is conceding there is truth and worth behind what they say.

  11. Tiger Mountain 11
    10 January 2023 at 12:56 pm

    Well, Brooke Sabin was a little crawler at Taipa Area School in early 00s which my son attended too, and at one point Brooke was student rep to the BOT. My partner was an elected member of the BOT, as was one Detective Mike Sabin who was also Chair.

    Mr Sabin then a serving Police member distinguished himself, I was told by several other community members, by asking for details on parents he was interested in for his law enforcement capacity while on school premises ostensibly on BOT business.

    Sabin senior had several marriages and ex partners in the North. His case related to teenage girls of a current partner which I will not go into further here, suffice it to say he was tried in the Whangārei Court under some attempted secrecy re his appearance, represented by Arthur Fairley of Thompson Wilson. Opinion only is that if Sabin had been tried in Auckland he would likely have got a different result. [lprent: deleted] Anyway…

    The record reveals what a dodge pot junior Natzo “travel writer” Sabin is. It is just another element in manufacturing consent for a National/ACT Govt. that should be challenged as Micky has done.

    [lprent: This is subject to permanent suppression order by Mike Sabin that doesn’t appear to have been lifted. The public explanation of request to enforce the court order is:-

    Section 15 of the order dated 13.04.16 granting permanent name suppression for the applicant (Michael Lewis SABIN) – with the effect of_ Permanent order prohibiting publication of defendant’s name, address or any identifying particulars. Publication of names, addresses, occupations or identifying particulars, of complainants prohibited by s 203 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011. Publication of names, addresses, occupations or identifying particulars, of any complainants under the age of 18 years who appeared as a witness prohibited by s 204 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011.

    I’m a bit puzzled by the complaint to google. Our site with a number of others is listed. You’d think that I would have had a message requesting removal. But I can’t see that in the email stream. I’ve requested to see the full URL(s).

    The Lumen Database appears to be an interesting project. But it is a little annoying to use as an operator because there isn’t any information about exactly what is an issue.

    There are three links in the search for thestandard.org.nz. I couldn’t see what on the site the two from Jan 03 2020 were referring to. ]

      • Tiger Mountain 11.1.1
        10 January 2023 at 2:59 pm

        I guess that also rules out quoting a 4.5.2016 Stuff piece that uses terms such as “Prominent man’s trial” with no personally identifying details?

        The NZ National Party top level play for keeps, and can affect millions of working class people as evidenced by the 1991 Employment Contracts Act and the Ruth Richardson Mother of all Budgets. So what compunction should there be in identifying some of these people really–apart from the legal restraint LPrent has drawn our attention to in this case, and potential implications for the Standard operators.

        NZ National selections have had some interesting results. Ex Police member, and ex Northland MP Matt King has had a spin out by the looks of things, and the guy Mr Sabin beat for selection–Mark Tan–was on the front page of the Northland Age last year in a photo identifying him as a brick thrower at Police in the occupation of Parliament. Mr Tan was Principal of Abundant Life Christian School on sabbatical due to an anti Vaccination position. Sorry if such info offends the delicate sensibilities of some readers.

        • lprent 11.1.1.2
          10 January 2023 at 5:12 pm

          I guess that also rules out quoting a 4.5.2016 Stuff piece that uses terms such as “Prominent man’s trial” with no personally identifying details?

          I can't see how that would violate the conditions of the court order. It doesn't have "defendant’s name, address or any identifying particulars". Nor "names, addresses, occupations or identifying particulars, of complainants". Of course I'd have to look at what you quote.

          So what compunction should there be in identifying some of these people really–apart from the legal restraint …

          Basically I feel that court suppression orders are a public good overall. I have racked my brains and reading about alternatives and haven't come up with anything better in legal intent. I won't go into that today – but I believe that overall gives better legal and societal outcomes.

          So far all of the arguments against the legal intent of suppression orders that I have seen mostly fall into various bounds of of a bucket tag I call prurient salaciousness. The only one that may have some validity is to enable other victims to come forward. But in reality, it usually seems that word gets around and people talk to the police without that.

          However court suppression orders are just a public nuisance in how they operate in that they presume that we're still using some kind of 19th century operation of media. If they come up for review, I'll have no hesitation in spending time pushing for some reform of the operation of suppression orders.

          The current system is ridiculous and just too hard to follow in a modern publication. It presupposes that the publication, each author, each moderator, and each commenter on this site has access to each court like a court reporter within the country to hear or read the suppression order and to know what is suppressed.

          That is because each of these groups are effectively operating with information that comes from the courts or just from rumour. They have publication ability in a public forum (ie this site). They also have absolutely no way of knowing if the information that they are publishing is in violation of a suppression order because there is no online index of what suppression orders are in force.

          I take spending time in court for other peoples stupid decisions that have no justifications about why I should do so extremely seriously. That is a waste of my time.

          I'd prefer spending the time educating the foolish twits like you who'd would want to put me at the risk of wasting my time in court, and do it without even bothering to arguing a case about why breaking a particular suppression order was warranted.

          • Tiger Mountain 11.1.1.2.1
            10 January 2023 at 5:24 pm

            Thanks for putting the effort in, all points noted.

            And really you have cracked it with “They also have absolutely no way of knowing if the information that they are publishing is in violation of a suppression order because there is no online index of what suppression orders are in force.”

            I must relay that I had no inkling that such a strong order was in place on the S***n case. And none of my political friends up North including NZLP members have ever mentioned it, even though his name still comes up now and then in discussions.

            But nonetheless a reminder to all to think twice before hitting “Submit Comment”.

    • Incognito 11.2
      10 January 2023 at 2:12 pm

      Your comment is nothing but a character assassination of both father and son Sabin. Still, it is good to know and be reminded who are the National Party shills in the NZ MSM.

  12. Thinker 12
    10 January 2023 at 1:15 pm

    The title of this article is "Why is everything Jacindas fault?" and the answer lies inside the body of the text.

    Jacindas needs to quickly approach Luxon, front-face him with the media present and ask him if he stands by Sabines comment, and whether voters can count on National raising the minimum wage as a guaranteed policy, if they become the government. Luxon then has to choose between backstabbing one of his MPs or alienating his support base.

    IMHO, Labour's efforts to maintain the moral high ground, while laudable, have a price to pay. Dirty Politics is disgusting and should never be contemplated, but there's a continuum of grey between Sainthood and dirty politics, much of which is tolerated, if not expected, by the voting public.

    Kiwis are proud of the saying "its not winning thst counts, its how you play the game". True, but not helpful when facing an opponent that believes the opposite to be true. I'm reminded of Dame Judi Dench, in "Chronicles of Riddick", whose character said "The best way to fight evil is not with good – you must confront it with another kind of evil."

    • Tiger Mountain 12.1
      10 January 2023 at 1:26 pm

      Yes, a bit more “arrogant prick” and a little less high ground. The appalling misogynistic abuse directed at the PM shows the Nats & ACT are totally not about playing nice.

    • Anne 12.2
      10 January 2023 at 2:16 pm

      I'm reminded of Dame Judi Dench, in "Chronicles of Riddick", whose character said "The best way to fight evil is not with good – you must confront it with another kind of evil."

      Brilliant.

      Someone needs to email this message to Labour's leading lights including the prime minister. It does not mean they need to stoop to the same low level, but it does mean they need to respond with much more vigour and double back on them at every opportunity.

      Sweet smiles and lofty expressions don't cut it with Joe and Mary Bloggs.

      Do some research on David Lange! He knew how to do it.

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/32901/david-lange-and-the-oxford-union-debate

      • Thinker 12.2.1
        10 January 2023 at 2:51 pm

        If you like that, you'd love the Irish man Liam Devlin, in "The Eagle Has Landed"…

        "It's alright Father, I'm just teaching him about the Holy Trinity. Do you know it [Chris]? Footwork, Timin' and Hittin'. Learn these, my old uncle used to say, and you'll inherit the earth just as surely as the meek" wink

    • Incognito 12.3
      10 January 2023 at 3:11 pm

      Just wonderful! Common sense ‘wisdom’ and political strategy from a fictional character in a dystopian SF movie. In other words, let’s turn the sprinklers on them, metaphorically speaking, of course? You are not much of a thinker, are you?

      My idea is to hold both the Opposition and Government to account or rather, all political parties standing in the General Election and vying for the Treasury benches.

      • Thinker 12.3.1
        11 January 2023 at 10:54 am

        Incognito, did you wonder if the fictional character from a scifi, dystopian movie was based on realpolitik, instead of the other way around? Art reflects life.

        For common-sense 'wisdom' and political strategy, I recommend:

        Machiavellis "The Prince", Sun-Tzu's "Art of War", Bing Fa/36 strategies, most of Basil Liddell-Hart's strategic stuff, Winston Churchill's own works and works about him.

        For you personally, Incognito, "How to win friends and influence people" might be helpful, too…

        • Incognito 12.3.1.1
          11 January 2023 at 11:56 am

          Fighting evil with evil is realpolitik? You need a bigger coffee table and/or a bigger TV screen, obviously.

          Art makes me feel and think. For just feels, I’d suggest MSM headlines & clickbait, talk back radio, or SM (that stands for Social Media, not that other touchy-feely stuff). That said, when I listen to Chris Luxon speak I feel nothing and my brain switches off until his mouth stops moving – miserable moments in my life that I will never want to get back and relive anyway even if I could. That is not realpolitik but mind-numbing humming noise for braindead zombies.

          You are mistaken, of course, if you want to make friends you should join Facebook and collect your desired FB reacts. Here on TS you come for robust debate that goes beyond wisecracking slogans and bumper stickers that are no substitute for strong decisive leadership & teamwork, a clear vision, and a coherent policy framework.

  13. bwaghorn 13
    10 January 2023 at 1:41 pm

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/auckland-top-stories/300781225/mp-wants-faster-payout-of-travel-insurance-claims-amidst-lost-luggage-saga

    So day one has sabin begging for government intervention, day 2 has dr reti wading in, hmmmm couldn't possibly be staged now could it??

  14. Incognito 14
    10 January 2023 at 2:13 pm

    Isn’t it the Editors who write the headlines? If so, is Stuff’s Travel Editor on holiday and is its Political Editor standing in for her?

  15. Thinker 15
    10 January 2023 at 2:56 pm

    If you like Chronicles of Riddick quote, you'd love Donald Sutherland as Liam Devlin, the Irish man, in "The Eagle Has Landed"…

    "It's alright Father, I'm just teaching him about the Holy Trinity. Do you know it [Chris]? Footwork, Timin' and Hittin'. Learn these my old uncle used to say and you'll inherit the earth just as surely as the meek."

    wink

  16. tc 16
    10 January 2023 at 4:12 pm

    The roster finally comes to brooks turn and that's the best he can do.

    Stick to travel buddy and stuff shows its just another dp outlet.

  17. Tiger Mountain 17
    10 January 2023 at 4:25 pm

    • bwaghorn 17.1
      10 January 2023 at 5:17 pm

      Excellent!! Right wingers are just like common crooks hate the establishment right up till they need help.

  18. Stuart Munro 18
    10 January 2023 at 5:00 pm

    I imagine the strategy is to fight a PM with name recognition that Gnat leaders can only dream of – poison the reputation – because Luxon cannot compete on charisma.

    It is a bit tragic though – this level of press bias is how Putin retains power. NZ media should be ashamed of themselves – as they queue for jobs at MacDonalds having lost their undeserved media roles.

  19. Mike the Lefty 19
    10 January 2023 at 6:34 pm

    Its Jacinda's fault that we have so many of the rabid right still alive. If she had done what they wanted most of them would have been dead by now from COVID, alcohol poisoning, high speed traffic accidents, drownings, or smoking related diseases and we would be largely free from their incessant posturing and self-inflicted martyrdom.

    But I suppose the rabid right's wrath is what you earn by caring about your country enough to try and protect them from harm by diminishing their precious "freedom".

    They don't deserve it.

  21. Peter 21
    11 January 2023 at 7:39 am

    All those headlines are the exact stuff of Simeon Brown and David Seymour.

  22. Weasel 22
    11 January 2023 at 11:04 am

    Lost baggage is an absolute tragedy for those poor young OEs returning for Lucy and Olliver's big wedding day, but what about Potholegate? Now there's a real problem. Two motorists had their tyres on their double-cab ute damaged and Jacinda is not out their with her shovel. Heavyweight problems like lost baggage and potholes shows what a deep hole Jacinda has lead Aotearoa down.

  23. BAW 23
    11 January 2023 at 11:42 am

    Nat voter here.

    Who ever said the public were rational? Legally Jacinda is not responsible. But if the mood of the country turns, then she ends up getting tared with the same brush.

  24. remo.rogermorris 24
    15 January 2023 at 2:52 pm

    Why?

    Because Ardern is a ruthless and ambitious WEF trojan horse. Representing the international 'rules-based' (deepstate) power elite; Friend of NATO's 'Strategy of tension' social engineers and mandator of big Pharma eugenicists, the needle cultists of empire; determined to force us into a uni-polar, technoc.rat.ic, 'world order'

    Is why.

    [The conspiracy virus has rotten away big parts of your brain. To avoid spreading the disease I warn you that you will be quarantined for at least 1 year if/when you have another episode of your virus-induced stupidity in this site instead of dumping it, if you must, on SM such as Twitter or FB. I doubt it will happen but I hope you will get better soon – Incognito]

    • Incognito 24.1
      15 January 2023 at 8:45 pm

      Mod note

    • Shanreagh 24.2
      15 January 2023 at 9:12 pm

      Goodness me, you can surely do better than that remo.

      I find the very best conspiracy theorists have the facility to link in the faked moon landing, the grassy knoll at JFK's assassination, 9/11 being an inside job or was that an outside job and the lizard people of David Icke into the narrative.

      Your post does not mention any of these.

      Poor show really. Though do the needle cultists have the ability to effect shape shifting between lizards and humans? Is that what is being left unsaid? Along with Pizzagate. There used to be a couple of CTs about the Pope but perhaps these have been dropped

      Anyway toodle pip, hope all is well and if not get better soon.

      Heavy sarcasm. No response required.

    • remo.rogermorris 24.3
      16 January 2023 at 6:18 pm

      Thank you for your concerns regarding my mental health. Although they do fall into a patterned response avoiding all issues except the personal.

      I must confess; the mandating of an experimental mRNA 'gene therapy'; now implicated worldwide in the deaths of thousands, with hundreds of thousands of HARMS; a toxin injected under fear and loathing into the arms of my children and grandchildren – without informed consent; is a particular cross to bear. I consider it a programmed assault by propagandists and eugenicists out of the WEF and WHO/GAVI/Tavistock think tanks; implemented by an idiot Government bent on it's own purposes; so it has certainly been a trial of the extreme.

      That said, what you are attempting to smoke me with ('rotten"conspiracy', 'virus' etc), is called a 'crippled epistemology'. Crippled thinking. This derogatory was designed by Cass SUNSTEIN and Adrian VERMULE in their Obama era 'Conspiracy theory' paper; an administrative assault against the dangerous evidence based 911 truth movements' gaming the media firewall in 07-08. These two apparatchiks of the wokist/deepstate, were engaged to identify strategies for government actions, in response to effective on-line advocacy against Official 911 Narratives. How to attack the investigative independents' who were effective… those finding evidence of the conspiracies Governments are determined to keep. 911, for instance Shanreagh, is most certainly a false flag operation by deepstate. A demolition. Just as John Kennedy was indeed, shot twice from the front. In the throat, and in the face. The fact you cannot understand it, means you are not asking the right questions. Something Leni Riefenstahl understood as 'the submissive void'.

      The Sunstein/Vermule paper strategises different online tactics and means of infiltration by security services, to destabilise groups struggling with the narrative control firewall. 'TheDisinformationProject' in NZ examples one such effort to control the narratives here. Arderns 'ChCh Call', another.

      In this particular, the 'bundling' argument Shanreagh uses; where bona fide and provable Conspiracies (JFK/911), are purposefully 'bundled' with extreme, Flat-earth type limited hangouts; is a method designed to neuter by association. So that anyone newly contending with the impossible 'fire induced' physics of 911 freefall (says it all ) sees that 'lizard people' connotation, ceases immediately – not wanting to be branded. Shapeshifter and lizard people being most popular 'bundlers' but insults vary. Anti-semite and holocaust denier tend to be the final curses.

      It is also reasonable to point out that the term 'conspiracy theorist' itself was weaponised by CIA, in response to mounting evidence CIA were directly responsible (with allies) for murdering their President. A document obtained under FOIA by NYT's in 1976 CIA/1035-960//NURNAD labeled “PSYCH” for “psychological operations” coined the phrase “conspiracy theory” and “conspiracy theorists", to attack anyone who challenged the official narrative from the Warren Commission. It also has a CS indicated on it, which stands for “clandestine services” unit. It also self identified CIA's role 'to guard against the illicit transformation of probability into certainty'; that these are vast conspiracies., run by the intelligence networks and their government enablers. Illicit only because 'they' decide the legality.

      So; while you call me 'conspiracy theorist' for calling the sainted one a WEF trojan Horse, deserving of any blame the past 3 years throws up; be careful. It may be you, are the useful idiots.

      [Goodbye – Permanent ban. You are taking the piss and blatantly ignoring a Moderator warning with a major dump of conspiracy garbage. But what’s most disappointing is that you did not provide a single link to back up your assertions, which is a requirement on this site to enable robust quality debate – Incognito]

  25. Shanreagh 25
    15 January 2023 at 9:26 pm

    Just to add, with NZ coming up to an election that we hope will be fought on fair grounds the continued spouting of CTs is an absolutely unwanted part of any election just as these conspiracists were an absolute distraction from the work being done to keep us all safe during the pandemic.

  26. RP Mcmurphy 26
    21 January 2023 at 10:22 pm

    sabin is a shill. shills do what their masters tell them. sabin is a a tory shill and their policy is evryfing is da gubmints folt.