Open Mike 01/11/2016

97 comments on “Open Mike 01/11/2016 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   1 November 2016 at 6:58 am

   Chris Trotter on New Zealand’s involvment in the Middle East

   “Leave Now”
   • Morrissey 1.1

     1 November 2016 at 7:45 am

     Chris Trotter on Deep South lynch law:

     I think all this talk about the jury is most unfortunate. You have, even in this case I think, to trust the jury.”

     https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19072013/#comment-664870
2. Paul 2

   1 November 2016 at 7:10 am

   Chris Trotter on New Zealand’s Labour Party.
   Learn.

   http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/10/31/forgotten-lessons-has-labour-just-chosen-to-lose-hutt-south/
   • Puckish Rogue 2.1

     1 November 2016 at 8:47 am

     I’m always astounded at how often Chris Trotter is ignored
     • fisiani 2.1.1

       1 November 2016 at 4:15 pm

       I never knew that the Party Council of the Labour Party could ignore the wishes of the local members of the party in Hutt South. They wanted Campbell Barry -they had Ginny Anderson foisted on them. No wonder my Labour mates in the Hutt are so pissed off.
       • In Vino 2.1.1.1

         1 November 2016 at 5:22 pm

         Your Labour mates? I bet you have close friends in the People’s Front of Judea, too.
         • Pasupial 2.1.1.1.1

           1 November 2016 at 5:30 pm

           I’ve always thought of our fisiani as more akin to the Popular Front.
     • Morrissey 2.1.2

       1 November 2016 at 7:16 pm

       I’m always astounded at how often Chris Trotter is ignorant, and cowardly, and vile….

       https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14062013/#comment-648511
3. Jenny 3

   1 November 2016 at 7:16 am

   Near the beginning of the air assault on the Sirian people from the air by the Assad regime. New Zealand’s own Anita McNaught risks her life to report on the dictator’s assault on his people. Bear in mind that the devastation and death toll has become exponentially worse now that Putin has weighed in on the side of the Assad regime.
   • Paul 3.1

     1 November 2016 at 7:20 am

     Al Jazeera cannot be considered a balanced news source.
     It is the voice of the Gulf states, who have expended a lot of cash supporting the throat cutting jianadis of al Qaeda and Isis.
     Be careful not to believe their propaganda.
     • Psycho Milt 3.1.1

       1 November 2016 at 7:32 am

       Just for shits and giggles, whose propaganda do you claim we should believe?

       Re Al Jazeera: during WW2 a lot of people in Europe used to listen to the BBC, which was the voice of the British Empire, an actual participant in the conflict. Its content was British propaganda, but with significantly less deception than its rivals and serving a somewhat less repulsive purpose. Al Jazeera’s along the same lines: keep in mind it’s a propaganda service, sure – but you can also safely assume it’s more reliable than the other side’s versions.
       • Morrissey 3.1.1.1

         1 November 2016 at 7:51 am

         So, according to this thing “Psycho Milt”, the state channel of a regime that supports Al Qaeda is “more reliable” than the channel (RT) of a regime supporting the constitutional government against an Al Qaeda insurrection.

         That “Psycho Milt” has deliberately misconstrued Paul’s words will surprise no one who regularly reads this mostly excellent site: he is a shameless and relentless right wing troll, so I expect him to ignore the following recommendation, which is for people who genuinely want to be informed.

         Anyone who wants to read rigorous, scholarly and fairminded writing on the Syrian situation should look at the following….

         http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/38133-noam-chomsky-on-syria-a-grim-set-of-alternatives

         [Psycho Milt is not a thing, they’re a person. Scare quotation marks are unnecessary – weka]
         • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1.1.1

           1 November 2016 at 8:09 am

           Some hints: Psycho Milt is not right wing. RT is not a news service.
           • Bill 3.1.1.1.1.1

             1 November 2016 at 10:04 am

             RT is a news service just like any other news service, and has an agenda just like any other news service, and can be useful source of information depending on the issue – just like any other news service.

             Had this discussion previously.

             But as far as cutting through ‘western’ propaganda goes, RT’s pretty useful in identifying the holes and inconsistencies in what we’re told.

             Think it through. In terms of a propaganda war, they can be fairly honest (if selective) in what they broadcast to western English speaking audiences. They have no need to spin to undercut western narratives, unless that is, you believe we’re not subjected to spin by ‘our’ main news sources.
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               1 November 2016 at 10:50 am

               Listening to hours of Lord Haw-Haw for snippets of valuable information strikes me as a monumental waste of time. I’d rather read the Intercept.
               • Bill …

                 1 November 2016 at 11:50 am

                 How to miss a point. Half a brain engaged would alert you to the basic fact that RT is far more likely to have useful or informative angles over a range of issues than any of ‘our’ major news outlets. Or do you really not understand how propaganda operates?

                 You like reading the Intercept.Fine. What has that got to do with the merits/demerits of major news outlets/sources? Anything beyond ‘nothing’?
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   1 November 2016 at 12:09 pm

                   How to miss a point. Half a brain engaged would help you connect Lord Haw-Haw with selective honesty (your words), and realise that I am making a comparison between propaganda and journalism (with all its biases).

                   Do you really not understand that?
                   • Bill …

                     1 November 2016 at 12:48 pm

                     I wrote that they were selective in what issues they broadcast or covered in their news stories. You’ve either misconstrued what I wrote or are misrepresenting what I wrote. Either way, I didn’t write what you’re asserting I did.

                     Bias and propaganda. Fine line. When the Intercept writes a piece lauding the white helmets (as they did) , is it propaganda or is it bias? Maybe it’s ignorance that underpins their bias that then results in a piece of writing that acts as propaganda given that major outlets have been spinning the same, easily countered and discredited line?

                     Are you saying you’d read such a piece, assume it to be of the highest journalistic integrity and therefore ‘true’, and consequently shape or alter your opinions to fit?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     1 November 2016 at 1:49 pm

                     No, that isn’t what I’m saying. Bias is one thing; the deliberate lies of practised liars are only of interest to historians and anthropologists.

                     I have a limited amount of time; the precise details of Vladimir Putin’s criminal psychoses just don’t interest me that much.
                   • Red []

                     1 November 2016 at 5:30 pm

                     That’s your problem little man no one understands your gibberish made even more incomprehensible with your Tourette’s and potty mouth, but your entertaining in a comic sort of way 😁
                   • Bill …

                     1 November 2016 at 2:34 pm

                     So all major news outlets lie. The BBC lies. TVNZ lies. RT lies. The Guardian, Washington Post, NY Times…all of these sources are less than trustworthy.

                     But there a number of issues that RT can cover with just basic honesty and that will expose western propaganda because they don’t have to balance the impact on different audiences. I’m not saying RT would broadcast in the same way to Russia in Russian – it wouldn’t.

                     What I’m pointing out is that their English speaking audience in the west isn’t an audience they have to give a damn about in terms of reaction to them knowing the truth on a number of matters. They (RT) are out to undermine western propaganda and are in the enviable position of being able to just tell the truth in order to achieve that. Not on every occasion. But on a fair number of them. And that makes them a good news-source depending on the issue – better than the BBC or who-ever, who have to appraise the impact any given piece of info might have on their audience. look at how it fits with official narratives, and above all else, avoid any negative repercussions arising out of anything they might report.

                     eg – rioters in London a few years back were simply miscreants who acted out ‘just because’ and as a danger to society ought to have been stomped on. And yes, sections of the liberal press went through the motions of trying to retrospectively fathom this apparently unfathomable thing that had happened…within the bounds of acceptable enquiry.

                     Or BREXIT was and still is primarily because of dirty little working class racists and not, as studies have now revealed, because of austerity. The establishment can act on immigration, but not their own austerity driven policies. And of course, major news outlets essentially play along with the fiction.

                     And meanwhile, Putin’s traits have as much to do with any of that as did your previous reference to ‘The Intercept’. None.
                   • In Vino …

                     1 November 2016 at 5:28 pm

                     Nailed it, Bill
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     1 November 2016 at 8:35 pm

                     But there a number of issues that RT can cover with just basic honesty and that will expose western propaganda because they don’t have to balance the impact on different audiences.

                     Where’s the “basic honesty” going to come from in a “news organisation” that exists as a mouthpiece for its government in foreign countries? You might as well say that Voice of America exposed communist propaganda – it probably did, but who would trouble themselves to do the wading through turds required to find the occasional non-turd?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     2 November 2016 at 6:48 am

                     “Putin’s traits” are a metaphor for those turds Psycho Milt mentioned. I can see you are determined to tell me I have it all wrong. Fill yer boots.
           • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.1.2

             1 November 2016 at 11:41 am

             I’m no fan of RT recently – but they’ve been a good news service outside of issues directly affecting Russia. The problem is that Russia’s interests (or ambitions) seem to be expanding, and the integrity of RT seems to have been diminishing in direct proportion.

             It is the genuine reporting that makes a news service valuable, and Al Jazeera at least still practices a lot of that. That may be because Qatar’s global ambitions are relatively modest. RT’s habit of recruiting iconoclasts like Keiser was constructive, but recruiting former CIA people has proven a little too interested. The panels of deniers they threw together for MH17 were laughable – choirs, not discussion groups.
             • Garibaldi …

               1 November 2016 at 5:27 pm

               OAB you usually make a lot of sense but when it comes to CV you go OTT ballisticly.
               I find RT a very good counter to the outright crap we are constantly fed in our media. Gives one a sense of balance.
         • Psycho Milt 3.1.1.1.2

           1 November 2016 at 9:03 am

           …according to this thing “Psycho Milt”…

           Charming. Pro tip: live humans whose comments annoy you don’t thereby become something other than live humans.
     • Jenny 3.1.2

       1 November 2016 at 7:37 am

       “Al Jazeera cannot be considered a balanced news source.”
       Paul

       What are you trying to say here Paul?

       That Anita McNaught is a liar?

       That this video is staged?

       That the events shown are not real?

       Maybe you would like to claim that Anita McNaught was never even in Syria?

       She certainly was, and the video above is only some of the footage she captured, and at great personal risk.

       Of course you and others like you can continue to throw mud on McNaught’s reputation safe at home in New Zealand, and who can stop you. But in my opinion your efforts as well as being vindictive and petty are weak and unconvincing.
       • Bill 3.1.2.1

         1 November 2016 at 9:40 am

         McNaught said she was reporting from Al Bab. Al Bab is north of Aleppo and, according to google search results,, an ISIS stronghold.

         I’m guessing from the commentary in the report that she was there in late 2013 – some time after August when ISIS took control of the town.

         Can you tell why it is that Al Bab is apparently full of civilians, there of their own free will, and apparently devoid of ISIS peeps in that piece Jenny?

         All news outlets have agendas. Al Jazeera is no different to any other on that front, and as far as its reporting on Syria goes, a bag of salt should be kept near by.

         Y’know, this shit going down in Syria and the reporting coming out of Syria – it’s not like it’s a game of rugby where blind loyalty or tribalism from us, the spectators over here, might be a relatively quaint or harmless quirk.

         If you give a fuck about Syria in any capacity beyond just mindlessly “cheering ‘your side’ from the sidelines”, then you owe it to Syrians and your own intellectual integrity to delve into reports and at least attempt to filter out the elements of propaganda they contain.

         edit. The youtube version was published in Oct 2012. So who held the town or was fighting for the town in the year before ISIS assumed control?

         edit Can’t find any reference to ISIS having to fight for the town. Seems that ISIS was present in some form or other and just gradually asserted their authority over the other dozen or so factions that were apparently present in the town at the time of McNaught’s report.
         • Jenny 3.1.2.1.1

           1 November 2016 at 8:21 pm

           “McNaught said she was reporting from Al Bab. Al Bab is north of Aleppo and, according to google search results,, an ISIS stronghold.”
           Bill

           That’s all right then, Eh Bill?

           Just label them all terrorists and any atrocity becomes excusable.

           Why not take your hateful lies on behalf of your murderous dictator mate to the next level and declare Anita McNought to be ISIS.

           Your stupid lies are so ridiculous as to be laughable, if they weren’t so offensive, providing as they do, cover and support for mass murder and massacre.

           https://fightback.org.nz/2016/11/01/myths-and-misconceptions-about-the-syrian-conflict/
     • xanthe 3.1.3

       1 November 2016 at 8:37 am

       paul
       Al Jazeera is a news source and one of the better more balanced ones.
       You sound like a shill sometimes
     • Stuart Munro 3.1.4

       1 November 2016 at 11:57 am

       The Gulf States are complex communities, and support for Jihadis is not necessarily state or majority policy. What the Russians have discovered is that labelling anyone a jihadi gets past the humanist filters of some of the liberal left, and allows atrocities against them to be sanitised.

       ‘Al Qaeda and Isis’ – Which? They are NOT the same group. Conflating them and the white helmets is a dangerous overgeneralisation. Troublesome though it may be, if you want to discuss the morality of actions in Iraq and Syria you really must learn to tell the protagonists apart.
       • Bill 3.1.4.1

         1 November 2016 at 12:25 pm

         Half of the groupings adopt new names with the changing of the weather. You want a take on their difference? Look up that old Monty Python sketch about the Judean Front etc.

         Islamist groups like The Muslim Brotherhood have been armed and causing bad shit in Syria aas far back as the 70s. And any backing for the formation of an Islamic Republic/State would be coming from where over all of those years?

         If large amounts of funding and/or other types of support are coming from some Gulf States, and some of those channels have been operating for some time, then how much weight should be given to any ‘official’ positions that would deny support and funding is provided?

         The white helmets were founded by an English guy. They only operate in opposition areas. They have fairly well documented links back to Islamist groups. They get direct government funding from the US, the UK and other western governments. The illegal sanctions placed on Syria don’t apply the same in government and Islamist areas.

         Make of it all what you will.
         • Stuart Munro 3.1.4.1.1

           1 November 2016 at 12:46 pm

           You’re right of course Bill – why follow the shifts in groups when you could just have one overarching heading. “rag heads” do it for you, or would you prefer “Sand N***ers” ? What does it matter if a few civilians are killed under false pretences. Or a few thousand.

           Lets see some proof of these funding channels you allege.

           “The white helmets were founded by an English guy. They only operate in opposition areas. They have fairly well documented links back to Islamist groups. They get direct government funding from the US, the UK and other western governments.”

           The English are, it must be admitted, a monumentally wicked race. Rescue operations are most needed where the barrel bombs are falling. The defence of Aleppo seems to involve citizens and Islamists working together against a common and hated enemy. Governments fund many things, some good, some bad, some mixed – food and medical supplies would be appropriate under any circumstances, and against a murderous military dictator like Assad arms are probably justified – or the civilians will be compelled to obtain them from radicals.
           • Bill 3.1.4.1.1.1

             1 November 2016 at 1:05 pm

             Just google Boris Johnson and the Foreign Office (some such google search) and you’ll see him promise £30 million from the UK’s non-humanitarian budget for the white helmets. (edit – there are fewer than 3000 white helemts yet they have received upwards of £100 million while the Syrian Civil Defence Force – founded in the 50s and internationally renowned, is subject to crippling sanctions)

             In all of the footage of all of the fighting and what not put out by Islamists, how many pieces of footage have you seen of a helicopter dropping a barrel bomb? Hell, how many pieces of footage have you seen of a helicopter? Or even pieces of footage with the noise of a helicopter? They should be a dime a dozen, no?

             Western Aleppo. You think there are no munitions being lobbed from Eastern Aleppo into Western Aleppo that are killing and maiming children and men and women?

             You think that, unlike Mosul where it’s just taken as read that the civilians are being coerced into remaining, that the civilian population of Eastern Aleppo is free to leave?

             If the forces in Eastern Aleppo and their agenda are so attractive to the bulk of Syrians, then why aren’t people moving from Western Aleppo to Eastern Aleppo and why did thousands get out of Eastern Aleppo by fleeing to Western Aleppo while they still could?

             If food and medical supplies are appropriate under any circumstances, then why is medical equipment and such like subject to illegal sanctions that apply only to government held areas of the country and why is the UN routinely critisised by western media (the Guardian had yet another piece just a few days ago) for working alongside Syrian NGOs?

             I could go on, but I’m sure you could construct your own list of fairly basic questions and apply common sense, logic and a bit of research to get nearer to the truth of things.

             edit – as I said in the previous comment, there are many groups and their names change over time and they have a common goal or purpose. Some have more foreign fighters in their ranks and some fewer. They work together and sometimes alone. Some divert from their core objective to satisfy some funding arrangement or other that their donor wishes to see satisfied. The Scandinavian journalist interview (can’t recall his name) with a leader of one of the Islamist factions that did the rounds about a month agi is fairly instructive on that front. Look it up.
         • Psycho Milt 3.1.4.1.2

           1 November 2016 at 8:29 pm

           Islamist groups like The Muslim Brotherhood have been armed and causing bad shit in Syria aas far back as the 70s.

           One could say the same of the Assads.
   • mikesh 3.2

     1 November 2016 at 8:28 am

     The situation is not helped by ISIS executing any Aleppoan who tries to leave,
   • Brigid 3.3

     1 November 2016 at 9:40 am

     “New Zealand’s own Anita McNaught”
     She was born in London, didn’t come to New Zealand until she was 20 and returned to the UK after only 12 years. While she has dual citizenship, I don’t believe she could be considered ‘our own’.
4. Paul 4

   1 November 2016 at 7:17 am

   The ‘American’ dream still being pushed by the corporate media.
   Just in case they hadn’t noticed, capitalism has failed the vast majority of humanity and almost all other species on this planet.
   And they still push this utter nonsense.

   I’m starting to understand how it felt to live in Germany in 1934.
   You know the media lies to you.
   The propaganda is relentless.
   And you watch as the world drifts to war.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/85896943/the-selfmade-billionaires-who-started-with-nothing
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     1 November 2016 at 9:46 am

     There’s no such thing as a self-made millionaire/Billionaire. They all got there with the support of the community – and gave little to nothing back.
     • ropata 4.1.1

       1 November 2016 at 5:43 pm

       Correction: they got there either with help from Mummy and Daddy or by figuring out a way to *scam* the community. Fortunes are always built on the backs of others’ labour. And often maintained by ruthlessly externalising costs and evading tax.
5. Jenny 5

   1 November 2016 at 7:23 am

   Children in Aleppo light fires to confuse bombing aircraft.

   https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/826351520839690/?pnref=story
6. Jenny 6

   1 November 2016 at 7:27 am

   Holocaust Aleppo

   https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/805059406302235/?pnref=story
   • Morrissey 6.1

     1 November 2016 at 7:55 am

     Jenny, you are embarrassing yourself.
     • Peter Swift 6.1.1

       1 November 2016 at 7:46 pm

       About as accurate a statement as one of your dodgy transcript interpretations is close to honest summary.

       Perhaps you should stop baiting Jenny.
       That, aside from being m on f creepy, really is an embarrassment.
       • Morrissey 6.1.1.1

         1 November 2016 at 8:38 pm

         About as accurate a statement as one of your dodgy transcript interpretations is close to honest summary.

         My “dodgy transcript interpretations”? The only problem anyone ever identified with my transcripts was a tendency to attribute a few too many umms, errrs, and ahhhhhhhms to the likes of Hekia Parata, and to label some of the awkward silences that happen often during Jim Mora’s ridiculous show as, errr, “awkward silences”. Maybe it’s unsporting to highlight the embarrassment of a struggling politician and the lack of wit in a radio talk show—but “dodgy”? No, I don’t think anyone has convincingly made that argument. (Certainly I don’t think you are capable of it.)

         Perhaps you should stop baiting Jenny.

         I’ve rarely engaged with Jenny, other than to point out how foolish and ill informed she is about the Syrian insurrection.

         That, aside from being m on f creepy, really is an embarrassment.

         So she is immune from challenge, no matter how outlandish and ridiculous her posts might be, because she’s a woman? I’ve seen some poverty-stricken intellects try to make their mark on this forum, but that comment is possibly the most abject yet.
         • Peter Swift 6.1.1.1.1

           1 November 2016 at 8:47 pm

           You’re certainly minimising the negative misgivings over your heavily partisan musings. If you’re capable of honest introspection, you’ll agree we both know concerns run deeper than over mere umms and errs. Dodgy still stands undefeated in the challenge, especially in light of your almost stalkerish in nature campaign against radio personalities and their show.

           And yeah, stop the bullying. It’s unsavoury at best, and well ‘dodgy’ at worst.
           We don’t need that. No one does.
           Challenge is one thing, declaring someone is embarrassing themselves with no other conversation is deliberately demeaning in intent. Shame.
           • Morrissey 6.1.1.1.1.1

             2 November 2016 at 5:11 pm

             You’re certainly minimising the negative misgivings over your heavily partisan musings.

             As has been established more than two years ago now, the “negative misgivings”—is there any other kind?—about my transcripts were nothing more than highly partisan caviling and nit-picking. It all began with one highly indignant regular poster, Lanthanide, who was incensed at my sending up of the incompetent Hekia Parata. Lanthanide supported Hekia Parata’s assertions that deepsea drilling was perfectly safe and that the National government had prepared for every possible contingency. As the brilliant Rt. Hon. Hekia put it: “Ummm, ahhhh, errrrr, there’s a variety of various variables.”

             Unable to mount a coherent argument in favour of Parata’s and the National government’s idiocy, Lanthanide chose to find fault with my transcription of the interview. In time, a few others followed Lanthanide’s lead and claimed that, because I had missed a few words here, or added a few vacuous fillers (“um, ah”) there, then that somehow invalidated the whole of my (admittedly imperfect) transcripts.

             It’s all been dealt with, my friend. You’re several years too late.

             If you’re capable of honest introspection, you’ll agree we both know concerns run deeper than over mere umms and errs.

             No, that’s as deep as the “concerns” went.

             The rest of your reply is simply substandard and not worthy of a response. Like Jenny, you’re way out of your depth, although I will admit that at least she is trying to do something decent.
7. Jenny 7

   1 November 2016 at 7:44 am

   Who is Left and who is Right?

   A post you won’t find on ‘The Standard’

   http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/10/20/day-of-rage-for-aleppo-syria-saturday-29th-wellington-outside-russian-embassy/
   • BM 7.1

     1 November 2016 at 7:49 am

     Is Penny Bright your twin?
     • I Feel Love 7.1.1

       1 November 2016 at 8:40 am

       Is Rodney Hyde yours?
8. Cinny 8

   1 November 2016 at 7:48 am

   Embraced Halloween last night, made me laugh so much, highly recommend doing the following.

   Stuff a rubbish bag with pillows and tie rope around it to look like corpse inside a body bag, string it up in the car port.

   Paint “No one is SAFE” in red on the glass front door add a few bloody hand prints. Then wait….

   The trick or treaters knock on the door, I respond by banging and sliding my hands on the glass from the inside, while saying… run.. save yourselves…

   Result, screaming kids, laughing adults, ok i made some kids cry, but to be fair they were toddlers. And raisins, rice crackers and home made biscuits for everyone.

   Next year, don’t fight it, have laugh with it. You’ll be so glad you did, sure beats being pissed off at kids knocking on ones door for lollies. Give em a scare, it’s way more fun.
   • I Feel Love 8.1

     1 November 2016 at 8:18 am

     Absolutely agree! My children (all under 10) went with their friends & older kids & had a ball. I love driving around the suburb & seeing kids in their outfits upsetting the grumpos.
9. Morrissey 9

   1 November 2016 at 7:58 am

   The most horrific Halloween stunt was on RNZ National last night.

   Did anyone else hear Brian Crump’s utterly outrageous interview with a woman from the Occupied Territories last night?

   I’m preparing a transcript, but if anyone else has done one, I’d like to spare myself the effort. Anyone?
   • Cinny 9.1

     1 November 2016 at 8:04 am

     Dang, look forward to learning more.
   • Rosemary McDonald 9.2

     1 November 2016 at 8:22 am

     http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/nights/audio/201821977/nights'-overseas-palestine
   • Bill 9.3

     1 November 2016 at 10:55 am

     Stunt? Some questions were a bit silly or insenstive (eg – do kids get all dressed up and scary on Halloween), but I wouldn’t have said the interview was a stunt. Maybe I missed something?
     • Morrissey 9.3.1

       1 November 2016 at 8:45 pm

       You’re right, Bill. As so often, I was a bit overwrought when I made that comment. However, Bryan Crump’s questions were indeed, as you say, silly and insensitive. I’m one third of the way through the transcript at the moment. It should be ready tomorrow or the next day.

       Last night was by no means the first time Crump has grievously failed in this area….

       https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08092014/#comment-883121
10. Richard Rawshark 10

    1 November 2016 at 9:03 am

    Our fuckwit PM I see today has paved the way for the asset stripping and loss of all jobs to follow by saying and using Key words in his ,, lies about it all.

    When the government uses words like expect and hope, you know he’s paving the way to say he’s disappointed in Talleys etc shutting down the mines but it’s their decision at the end of the day..

    You know it.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/business/solid-energy-sale-will-be-some-relief—john-key-2016110107
    • Draco T Bastard 10.1

      1 November 2016 at 9:59 am

      So, making NZ poorer is a relief?

      Yeah, nah.
      • Richard Rawshark 10.1.1

        1 November 2016 at 10:09 am

        and Aussie richer, must be a thing with this guy, take money from Kiwi’s and give it to other nations.

        Over this toxic government.
    • millsy 10.2

      1 November 2016 at 11:10 pm

      And thus, government involvement in coal mining, starting with the Seddonville State Mine in 1903 draws to a close.
11. Manuka AOR 11

    1 November 2016 at 9:12 am

    The Pirate Party could still govern in coalition in Iceland:
    http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/10/30/icelands-pirate-party-makes-strong-showing-new-election

    Current Prime Minister Sigurdur Ingi Johannsson said he would resign on Sunday.

    The anti-establishment Pirate Party, which was founded in 2012, had said it could be looking to form a coalition with three left-wing and centrist parties.

    The Pirates’ core issues are: direct democracy, freedom of expression, civil rights, net neutrality, and transparency, all set out in a popular, crowdsourced draft of a new national Constitution that the current government has failed to act on. They also seek to re-nationalize the country’s natural resource industries, create new rules for civic governance, and issue a passport to Edward Snowden.

    More here: http://www.ibtimes.com/iceland-election-results-2016-pirate-party-wins-big-prime-minister-resigns-internet-2437431
12. Manuka AOR 12

    1 November 2016 at 9:16 am

    ‘Why campaigns, not protests, get the goods’
    http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/10/29/why-campaigns-not-protests-get-goods

    “Power Local Green Jobs,” the current campaign of Earth Quaker Action Team, or EQAT, frames the issue as one of racial and economic justice as well as fossil fuels. EQAT is targeting a local utility owned by the national energy corporation Exelon. The demand is a substantial leap for the utility, from less than 2 percent of solar energy presently to 20 percent in 10 years.

    EQAT’s choice of demand illustrates how campaigns work: Campaigners usually demand something hard but winnable. EQAT defied conventional wisdom in its first campaign by going after the seventh-largest bank in the United States and demanding that it stop financing mountaintop removal coal mining in Appalachia. EQAT succeeded, positioning the group to make an even bigger demand of PECO, the target of its current campaign.
    • weka 12.1

      1 November 2016 at 9:35 am

      Protests shift the culture so that campaigns can be successful 😉
      • Manuka AOR 12.1.1

        1 November 2016 at 9:39 am

        Yes!
    • adam 12.2

      1 November 2016 at 5:49 pm

      Did anyone else notice, the left party some what like the labour party here – Got hammered by the voting public. Funny how, all over the western world – so called left parties are going down the gurgler for their on going support of austerity, and there other dogie approaches to money…
13. mauī 13

    1 November 2016 at 9:56 am

    Haka for Standing Rock!
    http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/85941234/man-performs-haka-at-dakota-access-pipeline-as-kiwis-show-solidarity-with-protesters

    This was on the news last night. Great to see our involvement and it hitting prime time too.
14. Andre 14

    1 November 2016 at 10:19 am

    Cool solar panel stuff.

    http://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2016/10/31/13469846/tesla-solar-roof-solpad-solarwindow
15. Pasupial 15

    1 November 2016 at 10:27 am

    Public health funding in Aotearoa is inadequate to ensure the health of the public. Those who profited from tax cuts resulting from this government underfunding can afford private treatment of course:

    Thirty patients suffered partial sight loss in 2015-16 because of ophthalmology delays at Southern District Health Board, and thousands of overdue patients have been told they might be affected.

    Late last week the board wrote to 3239 Dunedin Hospital patients and 1379 Southland Hospital patients who are overdue for an appointment…

    Interim SDHB chief executive Chris Fleming told the Otago Daily Times more cases of harm could be identified as the backlog was cleared, particularly at Dunedin Hospital.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/health/dhb-delays-affect-thousands-30-suffer-partial-sight-loss
    • I Feel Love 15.1

      1 November 2016 at 11:06 am

      Heads should roll! Did you see the letters in the ODT? People are wide awake to the neoliberal experiment clusterfuck in our little town.
    • Rosemary McDonald 15.2

      1 November 2016 at 11:18 am

      Now….casting back into the distant and dimming past there were issues with opthalmalogical services at the SDHB.

      If I remember correctly (and I could be mis remembering) there was talk that private opthalmologists with a contract to provide services through the Public health system were ‘ripping off’ the SDHB and not always providing a proper service.

      I can only find one reference to this…http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6690-another-medical-stuffup/

      ….discussing a case from 2004.

      There is history here.
      • joe90 15.2.1

        1 November 2016 at 11:32 am

        Now….casting back into the distant and dimming past there were issues with opthalmalogical services at the SDHB.

        Colluding to fix prices.

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE0403/S00008/court-finds-ophthalmologists-breached-commerce-act.htm
        • Rosemary McDonald 15.2.1.1

          1 November 2016 at 11:44 am

          thanks joe90….:-) it was doing my head in trying to remember if there were any legal repercussions.
      • Rosemary McDonald 15.2.2

        1 November 2016 at 11:41 am

        Too late to edit…but here…

        http://www.hdc.org.nz/decisions–case-notes/commissioner's-decisions/2007/05hdc12122

        ….from a case in 2005.

        Woman consults eye doctor privately who then refers her for surgery in the Public Health System. Under the contract with the SDHB..from the time the refferral was accepted…AL treatment and follow up appointments were paid to the eye doctor by the DHB.

        Eye doctor charged the patient $90 per visit for follow up after publicly funded surgery.

        from what I remember…this was not the only instance of potential double dipping by these specialists under contract to a DHB.

        I noted it when the HDC decision came out in 2008 because of family contact with similar contracted specialists at our local hospital. We couldn’t understand why we were told to attend clinic appointments for no other purpose than to be told we needed to return for a particular procedure. Other clinic attendees were also pissed off at this….until we realised that every person with a pulse that attended the clinic under such pretenses attracted another $100 or so from the DHB. A rip off by the specialists.

        Funny that not long ago I was chatting with another senior specialist (in a different field) who worked exclusively for the DHB…he did not have a private practice. He told me he earned plenty from the DHB…and could not understand why so many specialists had to work in both arenas. Like serving two masters. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

        He initiated this conversation…and we wondered at the time if it was becoming an issue for the DHBs….having to pay exorbitant fees to contract private specialists.
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    1 November 2016 at 11:09 am

    Voting for Hillary Clinton was easier than voting for Chloe Swarbrick. And I live in Auckland

    Yes, I’m lazy, and yes, I was motivated by the spectre of Trump, but it’s still surprising that I found it easier to vote for the US presidency this month than in the Auckland council elections, writes Madeleine Chapman.

    Lessons to be learned from this but will we learn them?
17. Infused 17

    1 November 2016 at 11:32 am

    Paul actually posted something very good yesterday. Reposting as it’s good and as I give him/her so much shit.
18. Manuka AOR 18

    1 November 2016 at 12:35 pm

    Got a submission for our Constitution?
    Can be entered at this site:
    http://constitutionaotearoa.org.nz/about/
    • Rosemary McDonald 18.1

      1 November 2016 at 1:22 pm

      From Chapter One..

      “So, incredible as it may sound, it would be legally possible for our Parliament to repeal the Constitution Act 1986 or the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 in a single sitting day of the House under urgency, without any public input.

      This is not scaremongering; actions like it have happened. For example, in 2013 Parliament enacted the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Act in a single sitting day. Its principal effects were first to prevent anyone ever making a complaint to the Human Rights Commission or bringing a court proceeding against any Government family carer policy no matter how discriminatory, and second, to exclude retrospectively the provision of remedies for past discrimination. It followed a decision of the Court of Appeal that had upheld the human rights of some of the most vulnerable people in our community—the disabled and family members who cared for them. There was no warning that the Bill was to be introduced; there was no public consultation on it; there was no Select Committee consideration of it. By any measure, it was a shocking piece of legislation that ousted well-known constitutional protections and removed New Zealand citizens’ rights to be free from discrimination in certain cases. Yet it passed in a single sitting day despite almost immediate public outcry. Only another Act of Parliament can alter or remove it. That is how fragile our constitutional system currently is.”

      As someone personally affected by that particularly shitty piece of government work….that was the day that we were forced into the margins of NZ society….the Human Rights Act and the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act don’t apply to disabled people with very high support needs and their chosen family carers.

      And…. because Labour could have sorted the issue before it went to the Human Rights Review tribunal in 2008….all their hot air and bluff and bluster in the House the day the Nats rushed this through was hypocritical to say the least.

      We DO need a constitution.
      • Lanthanide 18.1.1

        1 November 2016 at 2:45 pm

        Repeal of the constitution act 1986 or NZ BOR 1990 would still require consent of the Queen, via the governor general.

        It is unlikely they would give such consent without good reason.
        • Rosemary McDonald 18.1.1.1

          1 November 2016 at 7:58 pm

          “…require consent of the Queen, via the governor general.”

          The same queen, who via the gg signed off on legislation that breached the HRA and NZBORA?

          The ‘good reason’ in that case was given as ‘fiscal responsibility’…based on costings that later proved to be a pile of crap.

          Of course…if the RIS which came with this shitty piece of work had not been 1/3 redacted…we all might be wiser and maybe a little less pissed off.
          • Lanthanide 18.1.1.1.1

            1 November 2016 at 10:09 pm

            Yes, the same one.

            I hope you can see that repealing either of those acts, is a bit different than passing a small piece of legislation?
            • Rosemary McDonald 18.1.1.1.1.1

              1 November 2016 at 10:52 pm

              No need to go the whole hog and repeal those Acts…just put them aside when it suits.

              Hopefully a Constitution (such as Palmer and Butler propose) would make it impossible for a government to do such a thing.

              I’ve been reading a few of the “We don’t need no constitution” opinion pieces and find it interesting that some are completely comfortable for the Ruling Party to have seemingly unfettered power.
19. marty mars 19

    1 November 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Very very good response to a weird article

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/teach-me/85931080/medical-students-say-330-food-experiment-doesnt-reflect-poverty-reality
    • weka 19.1

      1 November 2016 at 1:18 pm

      Good on the response. The original article is one of the more rage inducing things I’ve read recently. Sorry but the dude is an ignorant fuckwit, and if the world was sane his med school tutors would be bringing him in for a talking to.

      Dude only did the diet Monday to Fri. He got to top up with takeaways and bacon in the weekends. That alone means any claim he makes about poverty is invalid. I’m so sick of people standing up and saying this shit as if their pseudo experiments have any meaning in the real world.
20. Robert Glennie 20

    1 November 2016 at 1:58 pm

    Heard that Hekia Parata has told Redcliffs School in Christchurch to relocate.

    Silly woman was never going to let it stay there. My guess is a developer will now buy up the land and get their money back with some swankily unaffordable housing. And that if Nuk Korako wants a second term as List M.P. in Port Hills, he will need a promotion up National’s pecking order.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/85941583/hekia-parata-announces-redcliffs-school-to-move-to-redcliffs-park
21. Manuka AOR 21

    1 November 2016 at 2:13 pm

    Tourist couple bashed and robbed in Rotorua:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503438&objectid=11739841

    When that happens, who pays the hospital and medical costs? Do they have to pay it themselves? (Visit New Zild, have your jaw broken, your belongings stolen, and pay thousands for the experience.)
    • Red 21.1

      1 November 2016 at 5:25 pm

      um I think that’s what travel insurance is for, silly not have no matter what country your in
    • joe90 21.2

      1 November 2016 at 6:29 pm

      If they’re here legally, ACC covers their medical expenses.
22. Siobhan 22

    1 November 2016 at 3:00 pm

    Low risk Industry most dangerous job in the country..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/85950259/farming-confirmed-as-most-dangerous-job-in-the-country
23. Puckish Rogue 23

    1 November 2016 at 3:02 pm

    https://dailyreview.com.au/fairfax-journo-slams-musicians-refusing-work-free-fairfax-event/51133/

    http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/4249612/is-exposure-payment-enough-for-musicians/

    The chutzpah of this person is staggering
24. fisiani 24

    1 November 2016 at 4:06 pm

    http://ssc.govt.nz/better-public-services

    Have read at the the great performances of the government. Fill yer boots. No wonder National will win in 2017
    • adam 24.1

      1 November 2016 at 5:54 pm

      Sad man, you obviously never deal with any of these departments. Which actually are getting worse. Any Muppet can use tick box analysis to make themselves look good, something this government does in spades. Odd how people are seeing through that…

      Good to have a giggle though fisiani, if anyone on the left had used state propaganda to promote the last government – you and yours would have been calling fowl…

      It’s all getting a bit desperate from you lot…
      • Muttonbird 24.1.1

        1 November 2016 at 6:13 pm

        I thought that.

        Imagine an SSC under extreme financial pressure (which you can read between the lines in the very first spiels on the linked website) promoting how well they have done!

        They did let themselves done however when they said this:

        New Zealand’s State sector faces increasing expectations for Better Public Services in the context of prolonged financial constraints compounded by the global financial crisis

        Now I’m just going to ask how the GFC impacts on the funding of state services given NZ is supposedly ticking all the right boxes in growth.

        To blame the 2008 GFC for “prolonged financial constraints” in 2016 is a case of the SSC dressing a sow’s ear up as a silk purse, through gritted teeth.
      • Muttonbird 24.1.2

        1 November 2016 at 6:26 pm

        Just to condense my point:

        The very first thing the SSC talks about in Delivering Better Public Services is underfunding.

        Delivering Better Public Services within tight financial constraints is one of the Government’s four priorities for this term.
    • joe90 24.2

      1 November 2016 at 6:35 pm

      Fill yer boots

      Bludger Bill’s spent most of his life filling his boots with taxpayer monies.
25. weka 25

    1 November 2016 at 11:50 pm

    [In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.

    If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted – weka]

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