Supping with the Devil

Written By: - Date published: 10:25 am, December 1st, 2014 - 166 comments
Categories: Politics - Tags:

The political commentators are puzzled. Why, after all the fuss about his links with Cameron Slater, did John Key run the risk of exchanging texts with the Whale Oil blogger about the Inspector-General’s report on the day before it was published?

It is of course true that John Key would not have foreseen that his denials would be so quickly shown to be false, and that he would be forced into a series of increasingly embarrassing and unconvincing explanations as to why he had not told the truth – “I was in a hurry”, “I couldn’t hear what I was asked”, “I misunderstood the question”, “I was trying not to be too specific”.

The price he has paid is clear. We now know that we have a Prime Minister who is prepared to mislead New Zealand if he thinks he can get away with it. But that still leaves the question – why did he take the risk, and why, of all the thousand of texts he says he receives and to which he does not reply, did he choose to reply to the one from Cameron Slater?

The answer is one that should offer no comfort to any citizen of this country. The answer is that he dare not ignore a message from Cameron Slater. And why? Because he is now Cameron Slater’s creature.

The relationship between the Whale Oil blog, the Prime Minister’s office and the Prime Minister himself was initially a convenient one from John Key’s viewpoint. Here was someone prepared to serve the Prime Minister’s interests by doing the nastiest jobs, deep in the darkness and the mire, and to require in return little more than the occasional massaging of his ego.

But as the stakes got higher, and the spotlight began to play, the power in the relationship shifted. Cameron Slater became the custodian of a huge amount of information that the Prime Minister simply could not afford to become public. For Slater, this was pure gold. The bigger the role he was seen to play, the more it inflated his ego and – crucially – the more important he became to the Prime Minister.

Slater has little to fear if the whole sordid story comes out. It would simply confirm the centrality of his role and would confirm an image of ruthlessness he has sought to cultivate. But for John Key, it is imperative that the story stays under wraps.

One word from Slater, in other words – and the Prime Minister is history. Slater holds John Key’s place in that history in the palm of his hand. If Slater calls the Prime Minister, of course that frightened man will jump to it. He will even run the risk of discussing a leaked Inspector General’s report with him – and then trying to bluster his way out of admitting that he had done so.

So, what seemed to be a mystery becomes a much more worrying truth. We have a Prime Minister who is not only careless with the truth but who is obliged, for fear of being exposed, to do the bidding of the nastiest and least principled person in New Zealand politics. Is that the Prime Minister this country wants?

You need a long spoon to sup with the devil.

Bryan Gould

1 December 2014

166 comments on “Supping with the Devil ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. just saying 1
    1 December 2014 at 10:40 am

    They’ll both be needing very long spoons then.

    I think it would be a mistake to imagine “the smiling assassin” as powerless and Slater as being in control. Also to forget that they are both on the same side with the same interests. Slater wants to play with the big boys, seems to me like some kind of agreement will be reached.

    In the longer term, I wouldn’t want to be in Slater’s shoes having embarrassed Key, even in such a controlled fashion.

    • Clemgeopin 1.1
      1 December 2014 at 1:52 pm

      Good point!

    • cogito 1.2
      2 December 2014 at 6:02 pm

      Two devils, and both with links to Israel.

      • greywarshark 1.2.1
        2 December 2014 at 8:17 pm

        @ cogito
        I must have looked past the Israel connection in the post. Can you tell me which para it was in? If not there it seems that it is not a good thing yo bring it up as if it you could replace with the Hells Angels seeing it’s supping with the Devil.)or similar.

        • cogito 1.2.1.1
          2 December 2014 at 9:11 pm

          @greywarshark

          You don’t like my comment? Tough.

          • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1
            2 December 2014 at 9:24 pm

            well, that just suggests that the ookey suspicion about your comment might well have been accurate…

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.2
            3 December 2014 at 11:47 am

            cogito
            I did ask you a question. If you want to be a thoughtful commenter you would reply to it. This is not a place to just give snappy replies. It is a place for discussion not just knee-jerk reactions. I’m trying to apply reason to my thoughts and see it in yours. So can you do the same?

      • Puddleglum 1.2.2
        2 December 2014 at 9:54 pm

        I understand that Slater has links to Israel – he was over there, by invitation, for some event or other when Dirty Politics broke.

        But I haven’t heard of any links between Key and Israel (beyond most Western leaders’ links).

        My understanding is that he has far stronger links with the United States than with Israel.

        Do you have different information?

  2. Heather 2
    1 December 2014 at 10:41 am

    A wonderful comment and one all New Zealand needs to read.
    However, there will, sadly be still half the population of New Zealand saying ‘we are not interested in this’.
    Interested they should be, we have moved to a very different sphere in New Zealand politics.

    • Deb Kean 2.1
      1 December 2014 at 4:29 pm

      Exactly. I have a friend, secure whoever is in Government (married for 47+ years, owns her own home, she and hubby on National Super) who has reacted to my talking about all this with “that’s just nasty, I don’t want to know about it” (before the election) and “Oh, it’s all irrelevant now. If only Labour would forget about it, and talk about what matters, jobs and housing”. She doesn’t believe me when I say that they’re trying to be heard on those issues! Yet, all that aside, she is no fan of Key and never has been!

      • Tracey 2.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 4:54 pm

        and seem oblivious to a complete absence of policy from nats… and now the surplus that proved what great economic managers they are… is gone.

        people dont like admitting they were duped. they need a way out of their embarrassment. Key has been lying to them is as good a reason as ever to turn them round.

    • Kevin 2.2
      2 December 2014 at 12:54 pm

      ..more like 95% of the population can see you’re playing the man and not the ball – after +6 years, I would have thought you might have learned something…

      • ankerawshark 2.2.1
        2 December 2014 at 3:55 pm

        It will be interesting to see the polls Kevin as to whether Key is still as popular as he was.

        We are not playing the man, but the man’s behaviour i.e. lying amongst other things.

      • framu 2.2.2
        2 December 2014 at 5:26 pm

        after 6 years i thought you might learn math

        less than 50% of those who voted, which is a subset of all voters which is in turn a subset of all NZers, voted for key – how does that = 95%?

      • Puddleglum 2.2.3
        2 December 2014 at 9:58 pm

        HI Kevin,

        You may not have been taking much notice of recent New Zealand politics.

        As I recall, there was considerable focus on Helen Clark and Winston Peters prior to the 2008 election and there was certainly considerable negative commentary about David Cunliffe and his personal attributes prior to the most recent election.

        Did those occasions also involve “playing the man not the ball“?

  3. ianmac 3
    1 December 2014 at 10:50 am

    By constant repetition John Key would hope that voters will become bored to death. And when at a later date the subject is brought up again people will think, “Oh that old stuff. Heard that over and over. Who cares. Go John.”

    However maybe, just maybe journalists will eyeball Key and be thinking as they question, “What twist/lie are you telling this time PM?”
    We can become skeptics too.

    • Hanswurst 3.1
      1 December 2014 at 11:50 am

      Perhaps, however, the very boredom that people feel when constantly confronted with evidence of the boorish Key/Slater combo will translate into being sick of Key. In which case they will be thinking, “Oh that old stuff. Who cares. Go John. And keep on going. Just f**k off.”

    • George Hendry 3.2
      1 December 2014 at 1:47 pm

      A few, maybe. Most, I believe, not.

      Back when first gently encouraged to let a small lie go by, many would have been ok with it, as not obviously being something they were going to be steadily required to do more and more of. Or face the certainty of being attacked by the guard dog.

      The concerted pre-election onslaught on David Cunliffe was uncontested by any MSM journalist I know of – only bloggers did. At best some might have tried to write about other topics. All would have known its essential lie. Any effrontery at being lied to by the PM would be mock – they could not have failed to know it was an expected part of the job. Any faked journalistic probing now is excusable to their paymasters on the grounds that it will have nothing like the effect it might have had before the election.

      Some takedown is being expected because after the heist (being dishonest with the public) the thieves are supposed to fight over the loot (being dishonest with each other and naively expecting to reach an agreement). But there is no ‘shared’ agreement as democratic people would understand it – rather the likelihood of good pay for knowing your spot in the heirarchy coupled with disappearance if you forget it. Only on ‘the left’ would we ever use the word ‘unacceptable’ and believe it carries any weight.

    • aerobubble 3.3
      1 December 2014 at 3:40 pm

      You wish it was boring, or we could be.

      The state used info to smear the Opposition leader.

      Now sure, there was 10,000 votes in it, but that does not mean those who were effected by the smear were also in the sweet spot tjat would have tipped the election. Or tht had not the smear happened that another gaff did.

      The problem is Key was so weak that with such a close race he was willing to use state info, even if after the fact. So instead of doing the rig thig Key let the smear hang out and do damage. For that he should resign, he has a duty to protect
      the office, of PM and so of Opposition which manufactures consent for the PM by holding a light on the PM.

      Key is not worthy.

  4. Tiro 4
    1 December 2014 at 10:57 am

    Heather: half of NZ saying ‘we are not interested in this’

    And this is poss true, not to be interested in “he said” and “I said” explanation.
    But the sound bite stays and says we have a PM who lies- and someday (?) it might influence some to take that into account next time he opens his mouth.
    On the other hand it might turn off even more ppl who will stop to follow politics full stop now that their ‘best PM’ ever is just another slippery eel.

  5. CnrJoe 5
    1 December 2014 at 11:01 am

    The point has been made Bryan – shouldn’t the security services be investigating the black mailing of New Zealands Prime Minister?

  6. Te Reo Putake 6
    1 December 2014 at 11:02 am

    It really does seem that Slater has something over Key. I’m not saying that the relationship is as dysfunctional (or as intimate!) as the central one in Once were Warriors, but despite being openly despised and regularly beaten up by WO, Key acts like Beth Heke, coming back for more, lying, denying and defending her lover’s appalling behaviour. Something is fundamentally rotten at the core of their relationship.

    • Stephanie Rodgers 6.1
      1 December 2014 at 1:32 pm

      Ew. That’s a terrible analogy on every conceivable level, and especially gross with the snide “intimate” dig.

      • weka 6.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 1:52 pm

        Yeah, I think you got that one wrong there TRP. The power relations are completely different for a start.

      • The Al1en 6.1.2
        1 December 2014 at 1:56 pm

        Is that the adjective snide – Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way?
        Or the noun snide – An unpleasant or underhand person?
        Or something else?

    • Te Reo Putake 6.2
      1 December 2014 at 2:52 pm

      How so, Stephanie? While it’s not an intimate relationship, they are intimates. And despite the pain Slater inflicts on Key, he can’t seem to break up with him. It may not be a pretty analogy, but it still seems apt, mainly because the book and film are NZ’s go to guide to bad relationships. But I’m happy to take your advice on why it’s terrible, because I wasn’t meaning to offend anyone and I’m not so dumb that I can’t learn.

      Weka: I think the power relationship is correct. Slater has the power. Key is clearly afraid of him.

  7. Ashoka's hell 7
    1 December 2014 at 11:05 am

    You need a long spoon to sup with the devil?

    This is worth a read then:

    October 21, 2013
    http://www.frontpage.co.nz/news/muldoons-ghost-haunts-whaleoil/

    “Simply the National Party now has a group of its supporters who give every appearance of going rogue……..

    …If people like Michelle Boag have decided that Cameron Slater is toxic — and she probably concluded that a while ago, the next question will be whether his supporters in Parliament, particularly Judith Collins and Maurice Williamson also decide to put some distance between themselves and him.

    If they do, that will be a signal that the heirs to the Tamaki Mafia have taken a big hit.

    If they don’t then National’s civil war in Auckland will continue to smoulder away in the background ready to flare at any moment that Whaleoil decides.”

    • the pigman 7.1
      3 December 2014 at 12:26 am

      There’s no love lost between Boag and Slater – their rivalry seems to go back many years – he has it in for her because Boag isn’t nice to daddy (John Slater).

      Read Dirty Politics and the rawshark released transcripts for the details.

  8. Manuka AOR 8
    1 December 2014 at 11:10 am

    When you read this post, “Supping with the Devil” together with “John, Don and the Family” http://thestandard.org.nz/local-bodies-john-the-don-and-the-family/

    … the sheer awfulness of the situation we’re in can grab you by the throat.

    To many Kiwis with their nicely mowed lawns, supermarket specials, or dairy cows mooing over the fence, it must all seem like a bit of a joke – these are surely cartoon characters in a surreal world. Most Kiwis just don’t “get” that this is the new reality for the land in which we live, that these really are the people now governing us.

    • Molly 8.1
      1 December 2014 at 12:34 pm

      … had to chuckle, Manuka AOR…. I’m sitting at the computer sipping my cup of coffee with no brand milk, and out the window are the aforementioned dairy cows and lawns that were mowed yesterday….

      ..but also working on borrowing some money to renovate our home so it’s big enough to take all the kids, and the three students that have been boarding with us for the last couple of years. (2 rent-free).

      We live in a small house but with plenty of space (yes, an unforgivable lifestyle block in rural productive land), and so, any addition needs to provide accommodation for someone other than us. I would rather have another happy boarder than get new carpets and curtains along with the space. My now cynical attendance and following of affordable housing proposals and discussions makes me think that solutions are not going to come quickly from local or national government – or their private partners.

      All it will take is some of those Kiwi’s thinking about what it is they believe they have, and a good look at whether they have it. They will find those ideas of a good life, disappearing like mist when they directly look at it. I know my idea of what is valuable has significantly changed over the last twenty years.

      • Manuka AOR 8.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 1:15 pm

        @ Molly: “…disappearing like mist when they directly look at it.”

        Yes. But it is still possible to change the direction we seem to be on, as a nation.

  9. tinfoilhat 9
    1 December 2014 at 11:10 am

    From my understanding Slater is almost bankrupt and has somewhat grandiose ideas about his influence and importance combined with a history of mental health issues……why oh why does this blog continue to pander to this meme ?

    Wouldn’t it be better to ignore him and concentrate on issues that actually affect us all ?

    • CnrJoe 9.1
      1 December 2014 at 11:27 am

      the blackmailer of the boss of the nz security and spying services and we should just ignore? go stand in the corner with your tin foil dunces hat.

      • tinfoilhat 9.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 12:13 pm

        What I was trying to allude to was you must be mad to think Slater is blackmailing key ?

        To what end ? What has he got out of this blackmailing ?

        The fellow is a fantasist who has been used by the Nats on occasion to spread some pretty vile stuff but to suggest it’s any more than that is stretching reality and the ongoing fascination in the blog sites and the MSM with this fellow is proving to be a self fulfilling delusion that he matters outside his own little world. In my opinion the best thing that could happen to him is for other blogs and the MSM to completely ignore him and watch him quickly fade into insignificance.

        • phillip ure 9.1.1.1
          1 December 2014 at 3:27 pm

          tinfoil..

          ..as slater himself has said…he has all the txts/emails that others long ago deleted..

        • KJS0ne 9.1.1.2
          2 December 2014 at 4:59 pm

          It’s not that he’s blackmailing Key (at least not that we know) the dynamic is more that Key knows Slater has all the goods needed to sink Key’s ship – Slater’s had a seat at the table long enough to have seen all the dodgy dealings and putrid politiking. Key knows he needs to keep Slater placated now, he needs to keep him happy. Slater now knows this, why else would a prime minister apologise to someone of his ilk for nothing more than publicizing an email between him and Collins. OP is right, the dynamic of power is shifting. But alas, power is a fickle mistress, one wrong step and her favour is gone for good.

      • weka 9.1.2
        1 December 2014 at 12:32 pm

        There’s no evidence that Slater is blackmailing Key. Blackmail is the wrong word, and it’s not what was used in the post.

      • Jones 9.1.3
        1 December 2014 at 3:21 pm

        It’s not blackmail per se but more of Key and Slater being cut from the same cloth. Key cannot afford for NZ to know that he rolls the same way and is as dirty and ruthless as Slater.

    • North 9.2
      1 December 2014 at 5:50 pm

      Thanks Tinfoilhat for your advice that people should ignore this Key/Slater number. Won’t be taking your advice but thanks anyway. Not until you can provide a foundation on which to show assuredly there is nothing rum about it.

      Until then all you are saying is that you don’t like it being focused on. That’s your bizo and entirely not my concern. I could venture why you don’t like it being focused on but again that’s your bizo and entirely not my concern.

      Hang on……let’s pretend I take half your advice. So then, ignoring Slater…….do you advise people to ignore that Key lied to parliament also on the basis that you don’t like it being focused on ?

      Oh, it’s becoming clear……..the Key/Slater number really does matter to you.

    • kenny 9.3
      1 December 2014 at 8:03 pm

      Tell John Key that.

  10. Dorothy 10
    1 December 2014 at 11:14 am

    John Key’s explanations as to why he had not told the truth are becoming more and more unconvincing.
    In my life time I cannot remember a Prime Minister who was so casual with the truth.
    There is a time lag in politics and eventually many NZers will become aware of where this is taking our country.

  11. whateva next? 11
    1 December 2014 at 11:23 am

    Slater would be NOTHING…….NOTHING without his family links to the National Party, inherited power, not earned by work and study like others have to.
    He has abused this connection, rather than used it for good.
    Supping with the devil is very apt, as Key cannot simply blow him off now, (price paid for ever using him at all) and as Tom Scott’s cartoon in the DOm Post showed last week, all his chickens are coming home to roost

  12. Huginn 12
    1 December 2014 at 11:26 am

    Even more so if Slater was telling the truth when he said that Key deleted all of Key’s messages to Slater. Slater would naturally have archived all of his correspondence with the PM.

    RadioLIVENZ interview with Slater: http://t.co/NpdPFDsRRC

    Around11:10

  13. music4menz 13
    1 December 2014 at 11:33 am

    Bryan, it would be great if you could give us some examples of the ‘huge amount of information’ that you say Slater has and which forms the basis of his control over Key.

    You obviously are in the know, so spill some of the beans.

  14. philj 14
    1 December 2014 at 11:44 am

    Rather than ignore it can’t TVNZ run a reality TV series with CS et al. A bit like Police Watch involving the SFO, Human Rights Commissioner, Minister of Justice, AG, etc? It could be a Kiwi Docu/Drama. You wouldn’t have to pay for any real actors. Come on TVNZ and NZ On Air. Could be a World first.

  15. venezia 15
    1 December 2014 at 11:46 am

    Can someone post a link to Tom Scott’s cartoon in the Dom Post last week mentioned above please? (whateva next? post)

  16. Varity 16
    1 December 2014 at 11:55 am

    he has something on key. he has him by the balls.

    ironically he has us by the balls too. if we don’t talk about him this story will fade and so will he. we are making him the hottest topic and giving him the fame (infamy) and glory he wants.

    you have to admit it’s well played.

    • Colonial Rawshark 16.1
      1 December 2014 at 12:01 pm

      You are correct that putting focus on this story does elevate Whaleoil. The thing is that it diminishes Key simultaneously.

      A fair trade off.

      • Varity 16.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 12:12 pm

        true.

        key has found a way to calm cameron and get him on side – make him complacent so he doesn’t spill. cameron would be easily led by the likes of key.

        one of them will break eventually. cameron probably should because key will throw him under the bus as soon as look at him. he has no idea what he’s up against.

        lol.

  17. Chooky 17
    1 December 2014 at 12:07 pm

    John Key tries to compare his friend Cameron Slater with Bomber Bradbury..Bradbury replies by itemising Slater’s works

    “John Key has just come out on Breakfast TV today and said “Go ask the left about Bomber Bradbury, he will be just as vicious as Cameron Slater can be”. –

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/12/01/the-leverage-slater-has-over-key-and-keys-claims-about-me-on-breakfast-tv/

  18. Mainlander 18
    1 December 2014 at 12:13 pm

    “One word from Slater, in other words – and the Prime Minister is history”
    Any chance you have the slightest bit of proof to the allegations in your story, besides the fact they text each other of course.

    • Varity 18.1
      1 December 2014 at 12:20 pm

      umm – how much more proof do you need about their texting collusions? key has admitted it.

      • Mainlander 18.1.1
        1 December 2014 at 1:12 pm

        The fact they text each other is not beyond doubt, alleging Slater is either more powerful or has information that makes Key his lackey is stretching it a bit far imo, quite serious claims that i simply asked for proof of

        • Varity 18.1.1.1
          1 December 2014 at 1:36 pm

          after lots of warnings i read the rules of this site for the first time in years just this morning.

          i understand if i don’t answer those who disagree with my opinions, statements or gut-feelings i could be banned.

          i hope this constitutes an answer. 🙂

          [lprent: More like you *could* be banned. It depends if the moderators think you are avoiding debate, astroturfing the comments, and doing a series of fire and forget troll comments. We don’t expect people to answer everything. We do expect them to look at the replies.

          That is why I spent a lot of work getting a replies tab individually operating for each commenter.

          I’m just about as likely to warn or ban when people start badgering and demanding attention as well. ]

          • Varity 18.1.1.1.1
            1 December 2014 at 3:24 pm

            i said “could” too.

            i only come on here once a year or so and honestly i don’t know what i’m doing wrong but every time you chip me and i have no idea why. i read your rules like you said. i play nicely and stick to the topics. i don’t abuse anyone even when they piss me off and make snide nasty comments to me.

            i come here because at the end of the day you are my people and we have a lot of the same values and ideals. all i can figure is i don’t express myself as intelligently as you lot – hence i always leave with my tail between my legs.

            to me you speak in riddles and innuendos. i don’t understand that. if “f*** off and don’t come back” is what you mean then say it. i would respect that and be gone because i promise you i’m not here to badger anyone.

            regards …

            • lprent 18.1.1.1.1.1
              1 December 2014 at 3:54 pm

              i don’t abuse anyone even when they piss me off and make snide nasty comments to me.

              Abusing people is fine. It just to have a point to it. Politeness is over-rated when it gets in the way of a good argument. Demands for it are largely viewed as pulling out a sabre – it is a weapon and one largely used by people trolling.

              …i don’t express myself as intelligently as you lot – hence i always leave with my tail between my legs.

              Who cares. Just argue and generally ignore the other commenters who aren’t saying anything of value to you. Respond to those who point out the holes in your comments without the histrionics. You’ll find that others adapt to another’s style hellishly fast if they can see that you are trying to communicate rather than assert.

              But by the sounds of it, I suspect that you are probably asserting something as absolute facts that is really an opinion. If you want to do facts, then link to your source so people can tear it apart for you. If you express an opinion then say it is an opinion.

              • Varity …
                1 December 2014 at 4:15 pm

                i do argue and i do ignore when necessary and i think i’m going along swimmingly.

                but then YOU pop up, every freaking time and i think SHIT! what have i done now????

                • Deb Kean …
                  1 December 2014 at 4:42 pm

                  You don’t have to have done anything, Varity, I was perma-banned by someone* for being pro-life in 2013, (I am not allowed to comment on her posts, even if I don’t know they are hers). This will be moderated off so you won’t read it, which is a pity).

                  (*QoT, is I believe, the name of this person)

                  • felix …
                    1 December 2014 at 7:04 pm

                    I don’t think that’s true, Deb. From what I recall of your comment history I think it’s far more likely you were banned for continuing a long pattern of disruptive, deceptive, dishonest behaviour or for misrepresenting the views of others.

                    Why don’t you link to it so we can see what you were really banned for?

                    • Deb Kean …
                      1 December 2014 at 7:24 pm

                      ” From what I recall of your comment history I think it’s far more likely you were banned for continuing a long pattern of disruptive, deceptive dishonest behaviour or for misrepresenting the views of others.

                      Why don’t you link to it so we can see what you were really banned for?”
                      How charming of you. Your memory is selective, of course, and my ‘deceptive dishonest’ behaviour is/was pretty much in your head. Oh, and you seriously expect me to “link to” events that happened more than a year ago? I misrepresented no one. Sorry, my mistake for ever coming back here, but lprent will probably send another email telling me to never darken this blog again, so from yours and QoT’s pov, it’s all good…

                    • felix …
                      1 December 2014 at 7:44 pm

                      Why can’t you link to events from over a year ago? All you have to do is use the search function and you’ll find it. Try searching “vicky32” and “pro-life”.

                      For example, this search shows every comment containing both the words “vicky32” and “qot” : http://thestandard.org.nz/?s=vicky32+qot&isopen=block&search_comments=true&search_sortby=date

                      A quick squizz up and down any of the resulting threads will show how you used to behave here and leave no-one in any doubt that you were never banned “for being pro-life”.

                  • Murray Rawshark …
                    2 December 2014 at 3:30 am

                    If you’re vicky32, I remember you doing heaps that should have earned a ban. I doubt if it was for being against the right of adult women to control their own bodies.

                    • Deb Kean …
                      2 December 2014 at 12:31 pm

                      “I doubt if it was for being against the right of adult women to control their own bodies.”
                      Very loaded language there, mate… I oppose the ‘right’ of men and some women to slaughter their children. (A “right” few actual straight women want.)
                      Aside from that I did nothing to ‘earn’ a ban, oh, other than to refuse to be intimidated by men…

        • Varity 18.1.1.2
          1 December 2014 at 1:42 pm

          if not – you just have to be patient. slater will spill in the end. he’s not the type of guy who’ll ever let the limelight go without a fight. it might take years but eventually he’ll tell all.

  19. ghostwhowalksnz 19
    1 December 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Slater is the sock puppet of some very powerful people.

    he has really just been an alternative voice for people like ZB radio hosts Leighton Smith, Larry Williams. he is long time friend of John Banks who has a lot of say in Auckland national party circles.
    Essentially the people behind Slater are how Key is kowtowing to.

  20. Whateva next? 20
    1 December 2014 at 12:21 pm

    Or is Slater the Sherrif of Nottingham to King John?

  21. Bill 21
    1 December 2014 at 12:59 pm

    I don’t believe Slater has much beyond a ‘mea culpa’ over Key – ie, doesn’t have anything specific, but could ‘blow the gaff’.

    Key’s fucked only because Slater favours Collins and is going to trip and mess with Key at every turn.

    • adam 21.1
      1 December 2014 at 2:04 pm

      I agree Bill – Slater has too big of an ego, to not tip his hand if he felt he was holding.

      And what about the fact Slater Snr and Key are friends? Have people forgotten that?

  22. B. Adam 22
    1 December 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Looks like it has now become a ‘Master and Slave’ relationship or a ‘Master and Dog’ relationship!

    • just saying 22.1
      1 December 2014 at 7:38 pm

      Yep, and Slater is still the dog, imo.
      He could turn of course but he hasn’t yet and I think there is a lesson in that. He’s just pushed the boundaries a bit and rattled his cage. I wouldn’t be surpised if he has a picture of Key on the golf cart with Obama tucked under his pillow. He loses his power the moment he blows. It’s all downhill for Slater if he takes Key on. Fifteen minutes of bigtime glory and notoriety as the guy who brought down the PM – and then what?
      Key should not be underestimated. I thought we’d gotten past that over these long years of his reign.

      Will be very happy to be proven wrong…..

  23. logie97 23
    1 December 2014 at 2:00 pm

    Seems Joky Hen suffers the same denial traits as a well known cartoon character.
    Now when did Bart Simpson come on the scene, with his “I didn’t do it.” routine?
    Late 80’s, early 90’s. Joky’s been displaying it for at least the last 10 years, and probably a lot longer.

  24. Karen 24
    1 December 2014 at 2:10 pm

    B3tWOYDCMAE9sgW.png

    This cartoon says it all

  25. Northsider 25
    1 December 2014 at 2:33 pm

    There is a triangular relationship between Collins, Slater and Key. imho.

    —Collins has little to lose and a cabinet seat to gain.
    —Key has everything to lose.
    —Slater is incapable of loosing: any publicity outcome short of oblivion is enough for him.

    Slater’s price to shut-up (for a while) will be Key’s promise to have Collins back on the front benches within six months or so. Watch Slater try to de-stabilise a few minister to create the need for a re-shuffle.

    Joyce and English will do everything to keep Collins out. If they think Collins is on a promise from Key they will roll him. They too know here a few of Key’s bodies are buried.

    It would be fun if it was somewhere else, like Australia or Honduras.

    • Tracey 25.1
      2 December 2014 at 12:41 pm

      Interesting… Bookmark this comment north

    • les 25.2
      2 December 2014 at 9:45 pm

      I think you’ve got it.Slaters allegience is to Collins.Joyce/English no show if they roll Key.Be surprised if Key makes 2017 as leader,the way hes performing atm coupled with the economic outlook.Little is going great.

    • Clemgeopin 25.3
      2 December 2014 at 10:51 pm

      My guess is that sometime with in 2015 or 2016, Key will resign from parliament, giving some plausible reason such as being offered a high post somewhere in USA or some other reason.

      There will be an internal war for prime Minister’s post between Bennett, Adams, Collins, Joyce and English. I doubt if Key will want a fourth term, nor his Party would want Key to continue. He has definitely become kind of toxic for their brand now.

  26. ianmac 26
    1 December 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Bryce Edwards, The Downfall of John Key:
    “Why does John Key continue to stay close to Cameron Slater? And will this decision ultimately lead to Key’s downfall? These questions have been repeatedly asked in recent days about the resurgent Dirty Politics scandal.”

    And in keeping with suspicions on this blog and others is this particularly telling piece from Slater:

    Slater has also been very clear about his unhappiness with the Prime Minister at times – especially over the way Key has dealt with Dirty Politics and the dismissal of Judith Collins. He is particularly sensitive when John Key makes the tiniest slight towards him. For example, a month ago Slater spoke out on his blog when Key appeared to be trying to distance himself: ‘I wonder if John Key has miraculously found those TXTs? He can always call me and I’ll read them back to him. Impertinent questions: – If Key phones me in his capacity as National Party leader, but I understand him to be talking to me as Prime Minister, what does that mean down the line? – If Key communicates with me, do these communications have any expectation of privacy? Does the simple fact he is the Prime Minister trump privacy and he now has to own up everything that was communicated to anyone who asks him in the right way in the right forum?’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367008

  27. expatriot 27
    1 December 2014 at 3:32 pm

    “One word from Slater, in other words – and the Prime Minister is history.”

    I can’t help but be reminded of a choice Doctor Who moment (though I apologise in advance for comparing Cameron Slater to the 10th Doctor and Key to Harriet Jones):

    http://bit.ly/1vENdTf

  28. B. Adam 28
    1 December 2014 at 3:48 pm

    This is what Slater has admitted today in his WO blog in an article attacking M. Boag

    “She of course forgets that I am the victim of a crime and that the National party willingly used me to spread their dark arts stories. Irrespective of that Dirty Politics delivered the best result for the National party and a third term for the government with a record result under MMP” !

    • Frida 28.1
      2 December 2014 at 8:36 am

      Sorry just saw this after I posted my comment below – yes that is what I was referring to! Extraordinary admission. Waiting for the MSM to pick up on it….

  29. rhinocrates 29
    1 December 2014 at 3:59 pm

    And all the commentators, not least Hoots, remind me of a scene in Casablanca:

    Renault: “I am shocked, shocked that gambling should be going on in these premises!”
    Croupier: “Your winnings sir.”
    Renault: “Thank you.”

    • Anne 29.1
      1 December 2014 at 4:13 pm

      Slater offers up a critique of Michelle Boag:

      She may have started the trend for presidents of the National party to engage in cosmetic enhancements but for someone who drinks vinegar and sucks on lemons there is no amount of face lifting that can solve her problem. She remains very rancid mutton masquerading as a dead, maggot infested lamb.

      I’m sure that is going to assist in bringing the Nats’ Auckland based factions together.

      • Murray Rawshark 29.1.1
        2 December 2014 at 3:38 am

        I’d also put money on that not being written by Blubber Boy. He would have said something about her having the face of someone who never gets anything but a dud root and would have used ratbag somewhere. I don’t think he does much of his own writing and I’d guess Spanish Horror wrote that one. I think it has the touch of a bitter woman.

      • Tracey 29.1.2
        2 December 2014 at 12:43 pm

        Boag… Hangs with Banks

    • Tracey 29.2
      2 December 2014 at 12:42 pm

      Chuckle

  30. music4menz 30
    1 December 2014 at 5:06 pm

    I am bemused that Bryan Gould is permitted to make the assertion that ‘Cameron Slater became the custodian of a huge amount of information that the Prime Minister could simply not afford to become public’. If this is true then doesn’t it require factual evidence to back it up? It’s not as if Bryan is qualifying it with ‘I think’ or ‘maybe’ or ‘people say’. It is written as incontrovertible fact.

    In another post a journalist called Scott Campbell is being lambasted for having made assertions without evidence on The Nation. Surely Bryan is doing a similar thing here.

    • lprent 30.1
      1 December 2014 at 5:57 pm

      I would describe it as being incontrovertible.

      Think about the stash of materials found in what looks like a brief fossik in an old archive from around 2009 on his systems. That produced Dirty Politics and all of its fallout. It was also when Cameron was just getting started.

      Then there are the obvious stores of screen dumps of txts. The emails for inquiries.

      It is quite evident that Cameron is a packrat. How many more years of stored info does he have. Just the list of tutored MPs run by Lusk and him is going to be interesting. Not to mention coordination between the blogs and politicians….

    • Tracey 30.2
      2 December 2014 at 12:44 pm

      Did you forget he is a former nat party candidate?

  31. Treetop 31
    1 December 2014 at 5:44 pm

    Three main possibilities.
    Slater knows that he can prove that Key has misled parliament and the country.

    When the thing that Key is hiding is partly released, Key takes some of the power off Slater. All Key would have to say is why did you not mention this to Gwyn or Slater may not have enough proof or choose not to release it.

    Key may have thought that Slater knew something else to do with July/August 2011 and Key could not ignore Slater incase it came out in the Gwyn report.

    As long as Key knows that Slater is not going to out him, some sort of loyalty that Slater has to Key, Key gets away with the lies.

    I want to know when Key first heard of any contents of the Gwyn report and who told him?

    I want to know when did Key first learn that Tucker got his facts wrong on briefing Goff?

  32. JoeC 32
    2 December 2014 at 1:07 am

    Kiwi’s won’t admit they see a little of themselves in Key. All this lying is now the Kiwi norm. It is part of your national identity and make up. Don’t kid yourselves. You keep voting the guy back in by landslides. New Zealand 100℅ Pure Bastardry.

    • Chooky 32.1
      2 December 2014 at 11:17 am

      …sorry disagree!….Kiwis are a decent and trusting lot …and they have been duped by the msm and black ops spin against Labour and the Left ……and for John Key and Nactional

      …with Hager’s book ‘Dirty politics’ and the Gwyn Report and subsequent events ….they are just waking up !

  33. Frida 33
    2 December 2014 at 8:33 am

    I don’t normally sully myself by looking at the Blubbery Sea Creature’s site but I had a look yesterday and saw a horrible post about Michelle Boag (much as I loathe the woman, it was pretty awful) in which the Blubbery Sea Creature appeared to admit that Dirty Politics was accurate. Anyone else see it? I haven’t got a link sorry. I haven’t seen any of the media pick up on it.
    Suggests to me that he definitely has something on Key.

  34. A Voter 34
    2 December 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Could we make a movie out of the saga
    Call it “The Snobbit ” or “The 3 ZIONISTS “

    • Chooky 34.1
      2 December 2014 at 12:26 pm

      we could make a movie with the ring as NZ’s sovereignty …protected and guarded for safekeeping by the decent Hobbits( NZers)…the Nazgul black winged creates are surveillance…agents of Mordor and Sauron …the evil empire trying to take over

      • Manuka AOR 34.1.1
        2 December 2014 at 2:27 pm

        “the Nazgul black winged creates are surveillance…agents of Mordor and Sauron …the evil empire trying to take over”

        Yes, that bit really does fit well. Too well. 🙁

    • music4menz 34.2
      2 December 2014 at 4:38 pm

      I’m intrigued by your reference to The 3 Zionists. Just what is the point being made here?

      Is this some kind of anti- Semitic slur?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 34.2.1
        2 December 2014 at 4:41 pm

        Yeah, kind of looks like it, doesn’t it. Then again, a right winger calling out bigotry is such a massive double standard 🙄

      • Colonial Viper 34.2.2
        2 December 2014 at 5:09 pm

        Zionists, Jews and Semites are not the same thing.

        Palestinians are a Semitic people. And very large proportion of Jews in Israel are not Semitic, having come from far away places like Russia, Poland, etc.

    • greywarshark 34.3
      2 December 2014 at 4:51 pm

      A Voter
      Could you not start talking about Zionists please. The word is so laden with emotion that if it must be used it should be only when the Israeli question is being discussed. Otherwise you just bring about a lot of confusion and annoy sensitive people.

  35. A Voter 35
    2 December 2014 at 12:27 pm

    The answer is REVOLUTION but do we as NZers have the will to do what is right for the nation or are we or have we become so self assured that we cant be hurt that we dont know how to even begin
    Had it too good for too long and now we are paying
    Good bye to Godzown this PM is like nuclear fallout

  36. weka 36
    2 December 2014 at 4:14 pm

    Not that this is news, but our Prime Minister is a complete imbecile.

    Dr Russel Norman : Why did he ensure that Cameron Slater had his phone number but did not give it to senior political reporters such as the political editor at Radio Live?

    Rt Hon JOHN KEY : Well, I gave it to the people whom I have had text conversations with in the past from the gallery. That is not all of the gallery but it is a fair number. I gave it to other people who are in the social media. I can say I did not give it to Kim Dotcom, as, I am sure, that member probably has Mr Dotcom in his mobile phone from the time he went up there for lunch. That was the time when his high horse he parked up there got Ebola.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1412/S00034/pq-2-prime-minister-communications-with-press-gallery.htm

  37. Eralc 37
    2 December 2014 at 5:06 pm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Gould
    Is this the same Bryan Gould. If so, blimey.

    [lprent: yes ]

    • Eralc 37.1
      3 December 2014 at 10:04 am

      Such an august career. I met him in the UK. The way he is writing barely resembles the same man.

  38. Ad 38
    2 December 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Every longstanding ruler needs to make their own pact with their own devil. Little will need his, if he doesn’t have them already. Machievelli, Mephisto and Macbeth have historically resonant lessons for good reason.

    The peculiarity of the Slater-Prime Minister relationship is that Slater is so deeply protected by his party patrilineage, his fearlessness, and his status as effectively subcontractor rather than as Parliamentary staff, that he can now operate completely in the open.

    The longer National sustains this kind of alliance, the more alternative left voice will be driven deeper underground through fear. Would be marvelous to think this will change, but so far Key’s ORCs are doing a stirling job sustaining his power. Don’t have to like it, but it’s fucking effective.

    • McFlock 38.1
      2 December 2014 at 10:34 pm

      I dunno – the association with slater would tend to hurt key’s clean image. The entirre idea of two-track politics with that there’s no connection between the two

      • Ad 38.1.1
        2 December 2014 at 10:42 pm

        Any evident association with any politician will have both costs and benefits. Key can well afford it, according to polls that have been consistent for over six years now.

        Nor am I convinced that Key needs him – he and his office continue to play most of the MSM like a black grand piano.

      • Weepus beard 38.1.2
        2 December 2014 at 10:51 pm

        Agree. Hager’s book was verification, and a major outing, of their strategy.

        The microscope is now on these two and every single time they try to pull off some sort of smear it will be investigated by independent media.

  39. Tony T 39
    3 December 2014 at 12:02 am

    Good Lord, has the country really come to this?
    Someone needs to drive past Slater’s house and office with a giant MAGNET
    He is currently getting very excited (and so are his fans) over at WO wondering whether he should sue Andrew Little, for calling him a sociopath, or what else he should do.
    The the someone should have him put under a CTO .

  40. seeker 40
    3 December 2014 at 12:30 am

    “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” ( from the film The Upstarts 1995).

    Perhaps key has been having lessons in how to convince Kiwis that his lies and unpleasant behaviour don’t exist. It has certainly worked on some.
    Ironically the master criminal in this film is called Keyster Soze. Prophetic or what?

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