Banks and Dunne vote down minimum wage

Written By: - Date published: 9:49 am, September 20th, 2012 - 51 comments
Categories: class war, john banks, wages - Tags: , , ,

David Clark’s private member’s Bill to increase the minimum wage to $15 / hour was voted down at its first reading in Parliament last night.

The Nats are repeating the lie that increasing the minimum wage costs jobs – no it doesn’t.

The vote was 61 to 59, I think we can all guess how MPs voted. An increase in the barely livable minimum wage was defeated by John Banks, who is a disgrace to Parliament, and Peter Dunne, who should have known better. Shame on them both.

51 comments on “Banks and Dunne vote down minimum wage ”

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  1. Janice 1
    20 September 2012 at 10:10 am

    Peter Dunne couldn’t even get 20 people to his AGM so how is his party still valid, when you need 500 members to be a recognised party ? However he still goes on blithely supporting selling assets and ripping off the low paid workers.

    • Matthew Whitehead 1.1
      20 September 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Peter Dunne doesn’t have a party, he has (had?) a safe seat. This is why electorates are a problem and our next electoral system shift should be to an open list parliament.

  2. vto 2
    20 September 2012 at 10:15 am

    .
    Slavery costs more than the minimum wage.

  3. BernyD 3
    20 September 2012 at 10:28 am

    I wonder how many minimum wage employees the Government actualy has, they say it with such certainty.
    It’s a justification they are fond of.

    • Descendant Of Smith 3.1
      20 September 2012 at 10:34 am

      Probably none as government employees are still pretty well unionised.

      What they have passed over to private enterprise to take profit from heaps cause the bosses get the money not the workers.

    • deuto 3.2
      20 September 2012 at 10:57 am

      While I cannot give any figures etc, from my experience working for a range of government depts and agencies, there are pockets of employees on minimum wage – eg doing data input etc. On one occasion, when I did a review of the staffing levels, pay levels and operating processes etc of a particular area within a large dept that I will not name, I found that some of the staff were on minimum wage but had not been paid the most recent increase in the minimum wage that had came in over six months previously because the HR/payroll people did not think that any staff were on minimum wage so had done nothing to implement the increase! Some red faces when I raised the issue on behalf of the staff concerned and the situation was rectified including back pay etc immediately when I pointed out that it would not be a ‘good look’ if the situation became publicly known. The recommendations of the review included raising the pay levels of those positions several notches above the minimum wage for parity with similar positions elsewhere in the organisation.

  4. weka 4
    20 September 2012 at 10:35 am

    What is the minimum wage currently?

    • BernyD 4.1
      20 September 2012 at 10:38 am

      I usualy google that stuff …

      “The minimum wage rates are reviewed every year. As of 1 April 2012 the adult minimum wage rates (before tax) that apply for employees aged 16 or over are:
      ā€¢$13.50 an hour”

      • weka 4.1.1
        20 September 2012 at 11:13 am

        Thanks Berny. Sometimes I like to talk to a person instead of a monolithic piece of software šŸ˜‰

        • BernyD 4.1.1.1
          20 September 2012 at 11:20 am

          Fair enuf

        • lprent 4.1.1.2
          20 September 2012 at 12:04 pm

          Yeah avoid spending time talking to software (apart from that nice Siri person about where to get a cuppa of course) because that way leads to madness..

          As a programmer I am accustomed to spending a significant amount of time screaming at the software of course. But I’m quite aware that I’m either screaming at my own reflection* or some idiot across the world who left the ^&*&%&(^$*%$^%$!!! bug in the library I’m &I^$^%#$^&#%$^#$&%&^%#^#$#^%$#%$#^#%$$###$$%^^(((**!!! relying on.

          Who are these people in the white suits?? Programmers are meant to be a bit insane…

          In other words for the programmers amongst you, I just solved another nasty bug….

          * One of the reasons that programmers (and most book authors in my experience) appear to never use mirrors and have a vaguely unkempt look is that they sit in front of monitors all day looking at the back of their brain. It is really really hard to have a high opinion of yourself after you’ve made the same stupid error every year for the last decade** as well as falling into every pretty damn obvious in retrospect new trap that comes along.

          ** Of course while they are usually pretty humble internally, the effect that they have on others is that they’re like all people who spend a lot of time staring at the back of their head – arrogant. Philosophers come to mind.

  5. Mathew 5
    20 September 2012 at 11:03 am

    Anthony, what gives you so much faith in the accuracy of Treasury’s advice as opposed to the Department of Labour’s?

  6. Brian 6
    20 September 2012 at 11:09 am

    Frauds, liars, hypocrites, cowards and sops – this govt. is all class.

    • Wayne 6.1
      20 September 2012 at 11:42 am

      Brian, the votes are entirely consistent with the well publicised views of each of the three parties who voted against. So they can’t be any of the things you are accusing them of in relation to this issue. They said what they believed and voted accordingly – and I suggest the people who voted for them in 2011 would also know their broad position on this issue. If you want to change it, go out and win the next election.

  7. captain hook 7
    20 September 2012 at 11:58 am

    $13.50 wouldn’t even buy you know who a tinny!
    or pay for banxies wayne bill at Bellamy’s.

  8. Steve Wrathall 8
    20 September 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Don’t like minimum wages? Don’t put in minimum effort at school.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      20 September 2012 at 2:46 pm

      Which means absolutely nothing. It’s not about skills it’s about wages being driven down while prices go up which is what’s happening.

    • vto 8.3
      20 September 2012 at 2:50 pm

      Fuck that is ignorant

      • Steve Wrathall 8.3.1
        20 September 2012 at 3:24 pm

        Not as ignorant as this:

        • mike 8.3.1.1
          20 September 2012 at 3:37 pm

          Teachers teaching kids about their democratic right to protest on an issue that affects them directly. Oh the humanity!

          • Steve Wrathall 8.3.1.1.1
            20 September 2012 at 3:49 pm

            …and the “correct” opinions to democratically hold. THIS is what spending the highest % of govt spend in the OECD get us??

            Sean Plunket: Have you talked to the kids about economic rationalisation, about the allocation of public funds to education? Have you also educated them on that or have you just gone for the emotion?

            chair of the Board Of Trustees Lyn Bates : Well at the moment we’re trying to work through the emotion…

            • mike 8.3.1.1.1.1
              20 September 2012 at 6:54 pm

              Thanks for the Whaleoil radio link.

              Eight year-old kids are struggling with the 1-10 times table. Are you really criticizing because they were not educated about economic rationalisation and the allocation of public funds to education? Think much Steve?

              I’m saying not that schools should organize their kids to protest as they like. But I also think that the world is not black and white, and there are exceptions to every rule. This is an issue that directly affects them – the closure of their school.

              If I’m right your general objection, and it’s not unreasonable, is that young kids will simply repeat the slogan and beliefs that their teacher tells them to. That’s why I think in this case the school should have got permission from the kids parents to do this. I have no idea whether they did or not. If they did I’m fine with it, teachers teaching about one’s democratic rights is a fine thing I say.

              If they didn’t then I also would not approve. However would they then be ‘more ignorant’ than your statement, “Donā€™t like minimum wages? Donā€™t put in minimum effort at school.”? I guess that’s a subjective call, but my vote would be that the bigger ignoramus is you.

    • mike e 8.4
      20 September 2012 at 2:52 pm

      Silly boy new research out of the US shows peoples educational achievements related to parents income!
      Besides that’s just more BS from a pathetic trooler!
      Some people with good educations don’t do that well either !
      I suppose going to school hungry emotionally distort from having parental dysfunction sleeping in a cold house suffering poor health consequences is going to deliver a good education outcome.
      Back in the 1930’s the centre right parties said it would cut employment by having a minimum wage that proved a lie then as it proved you a liar!

      • Steve Wrathall 8.4.1
        20 September 2012 at 3:21 pm

        “….going to school hungry emotionally distort from having parental dysfunction sleeping in a cold house suffering ….”

        Hmm? So you’re saying a large proportion of the population believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to… you name it…?

        • McFlock 8.4.1.1
          20 September 2012 at 3:41 pm

          You slid from describingĀ what is to attributing specific feelings to those who are.Ā Slippery Tory.
          Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 
          Funnily enough, if more people knew why it is, they’d believe they were being stolen from, disenfranchised, alienated and abused by a few rich arseholes.
          Ā  Ā  Ā 
          Healthcare and housing are nothing. Tories like you are just lucky that half the country doesn’t believe they are entitled to your blood.Ā 

            • McFlock 8.4.1.1.1.1
              20 September 2012 at 4:23 pm

              lol.
              Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 
              Yeah, but all at once?

              • Steve Wrathall …
                20 September 2012 at 4:41 pm

                Hand over your money or else lose your blood.

                Behind all the desperate attempts at a moral justification, that’s really what you redistributionists boil down to, eh? Mugging on a mass scale. What is immoral individually, becomes moral when done on a mass scale. Or as your mate put it:

                “A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”-Stalin

                • Kotahi Tāne Huna …
                  20 September 2012 at 4:50 pm

                  What “redistribution”, Wrathall? Are we talking about the 10% negative shift in wages as a percentage of GDP since 1970?

                  Notice how when we examine the real world it demonstrates how full of shit you are?

                • McFlock …
                  20 September 2012 at 4:58 pm

                  Nah mate. You’re trying to wriggle again. Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā Ā 
                  Ā  Ā Ā 
                  I was merely pointing out that the characteristic of being fucked by society is not the same as your rant about people believing they are victims and entitled to XYZ.
                  Ā  Ā 
                  Historically, if someone was being fucked by society and knew it, they’d end up looking for revenge.
                  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā 
                  So you’re lucky that most NZers don’t know they’re being fucked by tories more thoroughly than if they were simply mugged and beaten in an alleyway.
                  Ā  Ā 
                  To be clear, I’m not saying that youĀ should be up against a wall, or on your way to the guillotine. Just that, historically, you’re lucky you’re not.Ā 
                  Ā  Ā  Ā  Ā Ā 
                  Because children going seriously hungry and/or doing without decent wet weather clothes and/or ending up in hospital with preventable conditions – all to give more even money to the rich – is a pretty fucked up state of affairs.

                • vto …
                  20 September 2012 at 5:04 pm

                  Oh Steve Wrathall, don’t tell me you fall for that bullshit about redistribution etc.

                  Has it not occurred to you that the worlds’ wealth is alreday redistributed by means of for example minimum wage settings, labour law settings, income tax settings, capital gain tax settings, income tax settings, farming subsidies settings, corporate welfare settings, Canterbury Finance and bank bailout settings, NZX assistance setings. On it goes.

                  You fool, the entire place is one big giant redistribution. What is yours is only yours because of the current redistribution settings. You are entirely subject to redistribution right now today. Adjusting those settings is therfore not changing anything one iota. You egg.

                  You need to go away and do a bit more thinking.

        • Rodel 8.4.1.2
          20 September 2012 at 9:14 pm

          Are you Romney?

        • Draco T Bastard 8.4.1.3
          20 September 2012 at 11:52 pm

          @ Steve Wrathall
          What Mitt Romney Doesnā€™t Get About Responsibility

          The point here isnā€™t that Romney is unfamiliar with cutting-edge work in cognitive psychology. Itā€™s that he misses even the intuitive message of this work, the part most of us know without reading any studies: Itā€™s really, really hard to be poor. Thatā€™s because the poorer you are, the more personal responsibility you have to take.

          I’d say that you don’t understand the nature of responsibility either.

    • Carol 8.5
      20 September 2012 at 2:53 pm

      You assume that educational success correlates strongly with wage level.

      Sue Moroney quoted some statistics in the House yesterday in the General Debate.

      She said that a higher percentage of women workers are on the minimum wage than young people. As I recall about 51% of people approx 16-25 yrs (don’t remember exactly the ages) compared with 56% of women workers being on a minimum wage.

      And yet, it’s been pretty widely reported in recent years that female students, on average, do better at school than males.

      Furthermore, I have seen research in the past that shows brown people (males and females) with the same level of qualifications as white people, on average, get lower paid and lower status jobs.

      And the unemployed university graduates?

    • NickS 8.6
      20 September 2012 at 6:54 pm

      Donā€™t like minimum wages? Donā€™t put in minimum effort at school.

      Now, where did I leave that 2 by 4 with the word “clue” carved into it again?…

      Oh wait, that’s right Steve, you’re so dumb you can’t handle a system with more than a one variable šŸ™„

      So metaphorical whacks with the clue-by-4 are sadly pointless for educating you, barring frustration relief and showing once more what a pathetic ignorant idiot you are of course.

  9. mike e 9
    20 September 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Carol household income is what i’m referring to as most families have 2 incomes coming in.
    85% of University Students come from wealthy families.
    Women and girls tend to be better at study than men and boys!
    So this demographic you have pointed out hasn’t fed through the economy yet and is unlikely to as well educated women are having fewer children and the lack of employment and further career development is not available in New Zealand so more of our brightest are heading overseas.
    Equal opportunity in NZ is joke!
    However their are some bright spots ie unionised work places fair far better.
    My wife is in an unionised work place and in the top 1% of women income earners in the country and she left school at 14!

    • Carol 9.1
      20 September 2012 at 3:20 pm

      mike e, I agree with your comments.

      Just to clarify, my comment @2.53pm was a reply to Steve W @2.12pm… we were commenting at roughly the same time.

  10. blue leopard 10
    20 September 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Will our politicians be raising their own salaries this year?

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      20 September 2012 at 5:56 pm

      The politicians don’t actually have a say in it – the higher salaries commission does it independently. They will, of course, be raising the wages for the politicians.

      • blue leopard 10.1.1
        20 September 2012 at 11:35 pm

        …In that case it would be good to see them petitioning the higher salaries commission for no pay rise this year.

        I’m not normally inclined to begrudge a politicians salary and perks. It seems, however, with all the GFC excuses our Government is furnishing parliament with; that not accepting a pay-rise would be an appropriate response to the world financial collapse and be heartening for those on less than $15 to know that those who have attained the highest eschelons of power are prepared to share a blow, “tighten their belts”,

        not simply expect the lowest earners to do so.

  11. Chris 11
    20 September 2012 at 5:02 pm

    Two of the most irrelevant people in NZ, after Clingon Key, they have to wield their power somehow to make themselves seem relevant. Not working!

  12. captain hook 12
    20 September 2012 at 5:04 pm

    depends if the management of POAL slip them a kickback or not.

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