Brexit: Cameron Resigns

Written By: - Date published: 7:40 pm, June 24th, 2016 - 225 comments
Categories: Europe, International, uk politics, uncategorized - Tags: ,

UK Tory leader and upper class twit David Cameron has resigned, leaving the door to No 10 open for his fellow upper class twit Boris Johnson.

From Cameron’s resignation speech:

“I was absolutely clear [in the referendum] about my belief that Britain is stronger, safer and better off inside the European Union. And I made clear the referendum was about this and this alone, not the future of any single politician, including myself.

But the British people have made a very clear decision to take a different path and as such I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.

I will do everything I can as prime minister to steady the ship over the coming weeks and months. But I do not think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that steers our country to its next destination.

This is not a decision I have taken lightly. But I do believe it’s in the national interest to have a period of stability and then the new leadership required.

There is no need for a precise timetable today. But in my view we should aim to have a new prime minister in place by the start of the Conservative party conference in October.”

Audio of the speech here.

Reaction from the Guardian.

And from the BBC.

225 comments on “Brexit: Cameron Resigns ”

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  1. Anne 1
    24 June 2016 at 7:50 pm

    Well, we now know that the majority of Brits are sick of the “upper class twits” running the country so maybe it will end up with Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn. I think he is capable of fixing the problems as well as calming troubled waters.

    • Rodel 1.1
      24 June 2016 at 7:53 pm

      Yes Anne. I hope so too. Perhaps the tide is turning. Go Andrew Little!

      • miravox 1.1.1
        24 June 2016 at 7:56 pm

        “so maybe it will end up with Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn”

        The upper class twits in the Labour Party are whispering loudly for Corbyn to resign. *sigh*

        Edit – snap trp!

      • Anne 1.1.2
        24 June 2016 at 8:01 pm

        There is, at the least, a superficial resemblance between Corbyn and Little. Both are well educated and strong supporters of ordinary folk – which is most of us. Both are hard working, non-flashy types who have their feet firmly planted on the ground. England and NZ would surely prosper if they saw fit to elect both of them.

        Edit: looks like that little scenario re-Corbyn is for the chopping block. 🙁

    • te reo putake 1.2
      24 June 2016 at 7:54 pm

      It’s not looking good for Corbyn either. It’s rumoured that 50 + Labour MP’s have signed a no confidence letter in the last few hours. They accuse him of being weak and wishy washy on Europe.

      • Anne 1.2.1
        24 June 2016 at 8:05 pm

        OK, so they’re going to scapegoat him for the outcome. Not surprising. Oh well, it was a nice thought.

        • ScottGN 1.2.1.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:08 pm

          No they’re not Anne. I truly wish it was otherwise but Corbyn’s performance in this referendum was really, really terrible.

      • Bill 1.2.2
        24 June 2016 at 11:16 pm

        The Labour caucus cannot get rid of Corbyn. One person – one vote, remember?

        The 50 are only 50 – not some portion of a 20%, or whatever, weighting.

        • te reo putake 1.2.2.1
          25 June 2016 at 8:29 am

          The problem is that 20% of his caucus are publicly calling for him to go, Bill. If you recall, Thatcher had the numbers to see off Michael Heseltine’s challenge, but it left her fatally damaged and she resigned shortly afterwards. It’s not the numbers, its the fact that it’s happening at all.

      • infused 1.2.3
        25 June 2016 at 1:02 am

        He’s a fucking moron. That stupid memo that has come out has sealed his fate.

      • Rae 1.2.4
        25 June 2016 at 8:41 am

        That was the trouble for any party leader other than UKIP, because they had a mix of stay or goes in their parties. Bit of a catch 22 I would have thought

    • ScottGN 1.3
      24 June 2016 at 7:58 pm

      Or maybe not Anne. There’s talk that Corbyn maybe gone soon too. Labour has more problems to deal with than the Tories at this point. Their voters have rebelled utterly and the Labour Party in England is perhaps facing a rout along the lines of their Scottish counterparts.

      • swordfish 1.3.1
        24 June 2016 at 8:21 pm

        “Their voters have rebelled utterly”

        Not so sure about that. The Polls (including the final round) were consistently suggesting overwhelming Labour voter support for Remain. Same for the Lib Dems, while Tories were fairly evenly-split (albeit mildly heading towards Leave) and Ukip supporters, of course, almost entirely in the Brexit camp.

        Even taking on board the fact that most polls clearly underestimated Brexit support / over-stated Remain, it’s still very unlikely that a majority – let alone a significant majority – of Labour supporters voted Out.

        You can’t accurately deduce things just by looking at the overall results in a few Labour-leaning cities.

        Corbyn, of course, has traditionally been among the most Eurosceptic MPs within the Labour caucus.

        • ScottGN 1.3.1.1
          24 June 2016 at 8:42 pm

          I wasn’t looking at results in a few Labour leaning cities. Outside of London, Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol and Manchester, Leave has racked up majorities across England, they won in the Northeast, the Northwest, the East and West Midlands, Southeast, East, Yorkshire and Humber, Birmingham, Wales, Cornwall and the Southwest. In many areas those majorities were achieved with Labour votes.

          • b waghorn 1.3.1.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 8:53 pm

            I’ve suspected for awhile that the further left you get the more protective of ones own patch they become, its the one thing they have in common with ultra conservatives.

            • ScottGN 1.3.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 8:57 pm

              That’s always been the case though surely? The further left and right you get the more you look the same.

              • b waghorn …
                24 June 2016 at 9:03 pm

                I’m reasonably new too drilling down into these things but pre becoming a standard reader I had a theory that if you’re pissing off the far left and the far right with what every you’re doing politically you’re probably about spot on.

              • Hanswurst …
                24 June 2016 at 9:03 pm

                No.

          • swordfish 1.3.1.1.2
            24 June 2016 at 9:27 pm

            2016 EU Referendum
            Leave 52% / Remain 48%

            2015 UK General Election
            Tories 37%
            Labour 31%
            Ukip 13%
            Lib Dem 8%
            SNP 5%
            Other 6%

            Here, for instance, is one of the last YouGov polls (17-19 June) – one of the very few in the final round to place Leave ahead of Remain.
            …………………………Remain …..Leave …..Don’t Know
            Lab voters …………64%…………..26%………………9%
            Lib-Dem voters….59%…………..32%………………9%
            Tory voters…………35%…………..55%………………9%
            Ukip voters…………2%…………….95%………………3%

            I think there’s a very good argument to be made that Labour supporters largely to overwhelmingly voted Remain and comprised a disproportionate segment of Remainers.

            Brexit-voters in Labour-leaning cities would have been largely Tories and Ukippers, supplemented by a minority of Labour voters (varying in size depending on the city concerned).

            It would, however, be true to say that quite a few Ukip/Brexit supporters are lower income former Labour supporters who feel the Party has abandoned them over the years.

          • Rae 1.3.1.1.3
            25 June 2016 at 8:44 am

            It was probably those areas, blue collar, that were traditionally Labour that were feeling the worst effects of EU, only they are about to find out that it is not just the EU that was the cause of their woes. Technology and big business are the other two, though, I think they were thinking they might be giving the latter a bit of a one finger salute as well.
            Whatever else you have to say about this, it has not come about because people were feeling positive about their lives

        • mickysavage 1.3.1.2
          24 June 2016 at 9:02 pm

          Yep. Labour split was 63:37 in favour of remain. The SNP’s split was 64:36. The result was not Labour’s. It was tory voters who voted 58:42 in favour of splitting.

          • Anne 1.3.1.2.1
            24 June 2016 at 9:14 pm

            Well, if that is the case then Corbyn’s inside detractors are using this to try and pull him down. How I would love to be a fly on the wall of the British Labour Caucus Room.

          • swordfish 1.3.1.2.2
            24 June 2016 at 9:37 pm

            Cheers, Micky.

            I started composing my 9:27pm comment before seeing yours.

            • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.2.2.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:44 pm

              geographical breakdown? No doubt cosmopolitan Labour voted to REMAIN. But what about working class regional Labour supporters through the midlands and other regions.

              • Paul …
                24 June 2016 at 9:45 pm

                That is geographical.

              • Paul …
                24 June 2016 at 9:46 pm

                That is geographical and socio-economic.

              • swordfish …
                24 June 2016 at 10:21 pm

                See my 9:58pm comment below for a partial answer / guesstimate, CV (the stats suggest to me that Labour voting C2DEs were fairly evenly split). But I don’t disagree with your core point.

                The strong Remain vote in Greater London was partly grounded in Labour’s liberal middle class constituency but also, I think, in the large number of ethnic minority voters (who are generally poorer, Labour-voting and largely to overwhelmingly pro-Remain).

                I’m about to take a more detailed look at the regional breakdowns and might make one or two more comments.

          • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.2.3
            24 June 2016 at 9:40 pm

            And what about all the Labour electorates in the Midlands and East who voted to BREXIT?

            Labour supporters in London could be expected to tow the Labour establishment line. But not in the regions.

            • Paul 1.3.1.2.3.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:42 pm

              ‘Labour supporters in London could be expected to tow the Labour establishment line. ‘
              Why?

              The % votes can be linked to rich and poor parts of England.
              Scotland is a separate issue.

              • Peter Swift …
                24 June 2016 at 9:50 pm

                “Why?”

                Possibly a hangover from the recent Mayoral election where the victor was a prominent remain spokesperson.

                Maybe there was a lot of anti Boris sentiment floating around.

          • Pat 1.3.1.2.4
            24 June 2016 at 9:45 pm

            T ories 42:58
            Labour 63:37
            LDP 70:30
            UKIP 4:96
            Greens 75:25
            SNP 64:36

            “Yep. Labour split was 63:37 in favour of remain. The SNP’s split was 64:36. The result was not Labour’s. It was tory voters who voted 58:42 in favour of splitting.”

            that is a pointless exercise….52% of the electorate who voted, voted for change, many of them Labour supporters…..why?

            • Paul 1.3.1.2.4.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:48 pm

              They are sick of 30 years of neo-liberalism and will do what they can to attack the establishment.

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 June 2016 at 9:52 pm

                Including the Labour establishment who was selling the REMAIN message alongside David Cameron. (Labour did the same for Scottish independence too)

              • Pat …
                24 June 2016 at 9:54 pm

                they are sick of the growing effects of 30 years of neoliberalism AND are not ideologically driven.

            • mickysavage 1.3.1.2.4.2
              24 June 2016 at 10:20 pm

              They are not Labour supporters. They are working class tory supporters. The only way to get them back is to adopt Winston type policies.

              • Pat …
                24 June 2016 at 10:27 pm

                i guess thats a response if your happy to go from polling 31.2% to under 20% and provide financial and moral support for UKIP…….it is likely moot in any case, as stated before they were oblivious for too long and suspect the die is now cast.

              • Bill …
                24 June 2016 at 11:24 pm

                Want them back? An English civic nationalism as opposed to the chauvinistic nationalism of Farage.

                There was an English woman on (I think) Kim Hill the other week who encapsulated the sentiiment quite well. She’s English, not British. Britain, for her, is or was a vile colonial power that she doesn’t identify with.

                That nationalism isn’t Peters. It’s way more left – it’s Plaid Cymru; it’s SNP; it’s the Greens.

              • Tanz …
                25 June 2016 at 5:50 pm

                this is why the working class has turned its traditional back on Labour. Labour no longer gives a toss about the working class – only PC leftie nonsense. No wonder the party is fading away. The life support, its people, have left in droves. NZ Labour – does not listen to the people in general, only to its own ideals. Once it represented Joe Blogs, now it represents ivory towers and Greenies.

    • Peter Swift 1.4
      24 June 2016 at 8:04 pm

      Corbyn will soon be walking on shaky ground because of the brexit result.
      Looking at the numbers from some traditional Labour strongholds, when the attention is focussed on his part in an oft written about poor campaign, he will come under some pressure to explain his apparent ineffectiveness or his reasoning for failing to vigorously engage his voter base.

      One consequence not mentioned yet is how, given the high campaign profile of Farrage and his stated intention to poach and go after the left vote (as he has done already with the right), the numbers suggest the ukip Rubicon has well and truly been crossed by hoards of traditional labour voters.
      How this will affect Corbyn and labour’s future election chances will be a tale to be told.

      • marty mars 1.4.1
        24 June 2016 at 8:51 pm

        Yes it’s hard to imagine how fast this momentum will grow, but it will…

        • Pat 1.4.1.1
          24 June 2016 at 8:54 pm

          especially when those groups who voted for exit are the first and hardest hit….

      • mickysavage 1.4.2
        24 June 2016 at 9:02 pm

        Why?

        Funny this is all about Corbyn.

        • Pat 1.4.2.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:14 pm

          is not about Corbyn or Labour per se….it is about the failure of the political mainstream….where will those who voted for exit look to when this change makes things worse not better for them?….back to the mainstream?…..i think not in the main.

          • Colonial Viper 1.4.2.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 9:53 pm

            wait for all those Labour MPs angling hard to take down their Leader.

            • Pat 1.4.2.1.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:59 pm

              yes, they already are as Peter Swift notes…..wont solve their problem however as they will offer more of the same…Corbyn was too late and probably the wrong personality in any case. They were oblivious for too long, just like here.

            • Kiwiri 1.4.2.1.1.2
              24 June 2016 at 10:04 pm

              undoubtedly there’s Blair in the background poking and prodding, and he will have help from the Blairite careeristas

        • Peter Swift 1.4.2.2
          24 June 2016 at 9:32 pm

          It’s not all about Corbyn, but his role in the remain campaign was flagged for serious discussion before the vote, now it’s just a matter of time until they get around to him. In fact the BBC website already have articles up.

          Do you want a link, or can you manage?
          Have one on me anyway.
          http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36613245

          • mickysavage 1.4.2.2.1
            24 June 2016 at 10:22 pm

            This is a colossal tory fuck up. Why is it about Corbyn? If Labour have any nous they will hold their nerve and start campaigning.

            • Peter Swift 1.4.2.2.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 10:28 pm

              Agreed.
              It’s about Corbyn because it is the nature of politics.
              If labour had nous they’d already be in number 10 and there would never have been a referendum in the first place.

            • Bill 1.4.2.2.1.2
              24 June 2016 at 11:34 pm

              It’s about Corbyn as much as it’s about (according to ‘Labour party sources reported in the Guardian) the SNP.

              It wasn’t a Tory fuck up – it was an establishment fuck-up. They, the establishment (and that includes a fair portion of Labour MPs), think that economics trumps all. The people know they have been abandoned to hopelessness and despair and so essentially cast an anti-politics vote.

              Brussels is hated for good reason. Westminster is despised for good reason. One vote = two black eyes (and to hell with the consequences for now).

    • Grantoc 1.5
      24 June 2016 at 9:57 pm

      Well Anne many in the British Labour Party wouldn’t agree with you. They’re very critical of what they describe as his incompetence in rallying Labour voters in favour of staying in the EU.

      They question his ability to lead the Labour Party let alone the country during these times.

      There is a call for him to resign too.

      Check the UK media on this.

      • mickysavage 1.5.1
        24 June 2016 at 10:23 pm

        Is this the Murdoch media or the BBC?

      • Anne 1.5.2
        24 June 2016 at 10:27 pm

        There are several commenters who have reported the actual voting figures on this post and guess what… Labour voters voted for ‘remain’ at the same level as the SNP.

        But of course we know the UK tabloids never tell lies, and we know there are quite a few Blairite Labour MPs who want to stick the knife into Corbyn cos he’s not a Tony Blair fan and they reckon he should be. (sarc)
        Have a read:

        swordfish @ 1.3.1.1.2
        mickysavage @ 1.3.1.2.1
        Pat @ 1.3.1.2.4

        • Anne 1.5.2.1
          24 June 2016 at 10:46 pm

          Ooops Pat is questioning the figures. Why I don’t know. It clearly shows the highest percentage of ‘Leave’ voters were [working class] Tory and UKIP voters. Labour voters overwhelmingly supported ‘Remain’ along with the SNP and the Greens.

          But its the same old same old – It’s all Corbyn fault. He must go. 🙄

          • Pat 1.5.2.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 10:51 pm

            don’t recall questioning any figures Anne…I happily accept the figures MS posted…my point was that a significant proportion of those voting to leave were Labour supporters….you surely don’t dispute that fact do you?

            Oh and just to add, I don’t recall calling for Corbyn to go either….

            • swordfish 1.5.2.1.1.1
              25 June 2016 at 1:09 am

              Pat: “my point was that a significant proportion of those voting to leave were Labour supporters … you surely don’t dispute that fact do you ?”

              Depends what for you constitutes a “significant proportion”

              I’ve done some calculations based on the breakdowns of a number of polls conducted over the last 2 weeks – specifically the minority of polls that put Leave in front – and they all suggest Labour voters comprised between 15-25% of Brexiters.

              The large On-Line Referendum Day Poll carried out by Lord Ashcroft (which Micky mentions above) has Labour voters making up 21% of Brexit supporters, while Tories and Ukippers together comprise two thirds.

            • Anne 1.5.2.1.1.2
              25 June 2016 at 9:00 am

              Hi Pat
              But it’s the same old same old – It’s all Corbyn fault. He must go.

              That wasn’t a reference to you. Rather a reiteration of what I said @ 1.5.2. Sorry, should have made that clear.

          • Grantoc 1.5.2.1.2
            24 June 2016 at 11:36 pm

            It is being reported by the BBC that a formal move has been made by a Labour Party MP calling on Corbyn to resign and for there to be a leadership vote.

  2. Steve 2
    24 June 2016 at 7:52 pm

    It’s the high-flying CEO option..destroy the company then walk away, rather than stay and help repair.

    The National model of being a politician.

    • miravox 2.1
      24 June 2016 at 8:03 pm

      I’d like to agree with that. But I think Cameron has done the right thing. He has no moral authority to lead and it will only lead to more disruption if he satays.

      Stepping down with 3 months notice… enough time to calm things down and allow for a compromise candidate to emerge.

    • Whateva next? 2.2
      24 June 2016 at 9:52 pm

      Absolutely, he didnt look too gutted when he made his resignation speech

  3. Stuart Munro 3
    24 June 2016 at 8:15 pm

    Now how can we get Key to follow suit? A citizen initiated referendum to scrap the TPPA?

  4. Byd0nz 4
    24 June 2016 at 8:22 pm

    Its quiet a laugh really,to exit from europe,
    Bad companions for this vote however,
    The maniac selfrighteous, the tory right
    Fascists, but still for socialism, its clever.
    Like Lenin, once said with scorn,
    A United States Of Europe! Humph,
    A weakened europe a weakened nato,
    Brext voters, thanks a bunch.
    Some of the chains have been broken,
    Workers unite, the armour has a chink,
    Get back the gains you had already won,
    Smash Imperialism get rid of that stink.

  5. Tanz 5
    24 June 2016 at 8:25 pm

    He sold out England, just like all the top brass in the West have sold out their own.
    The ballot box does work sometimes.!!

  7. BM 7
    24 June 2016 at 8:34 pm

    This is brilliant, it’s been all a bit dull of late.

  8. miravox 8
    24 June 2016 at 8:35 pm

    Just sitting here trying to imagine Donald Trump and Boris Johnson leading the two most powerful countries in the English-speaking world.

    Thinking we might have more to worry about than the the bad hair similarity.

    • BM 8.1
      24 June 2016 at 8:38 pm

      Both Men are not idiots.

      Try and look past the media fuckwittry.

    • Sans Cle 8.2
      24 June 2016 at 8:45 pm

      +1
      Part of a larger global movement. Part of a process of manipulating the emotions of the people to further one’s authoritarian projects. Worrying times.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1
        24 June 2016 at 8:59 pm

        Oh I see. You’re one of those types who see elections as valid when they go the way you want.

        • Sans Cle 8.2.1.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:07 pm

          Not at all. I respect the result. I don’t like the facile analysis that this referendum is based in xenophobia or immigration that I have seen here – calling Brexiters stupid, as it is far more complex. However I think Brexiters played a bitter divisive campaign, easily manipulating emotions.

          • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 9:10 pm

            BREXITers ran a better campaign and understood their audience better. Also the working class and under class in Britain are clearly sick of the EU elites empty promises.

            • Sans Cle 8.2.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:17 pm

              Yes, and one Brexiter murdered an MP. Charming.

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 June 2016 at 9:22 pm

                If you have a point make it. The REMAIN campaign benefited from that death, not the BREXIT campaign.

                • locus …
                  24 June 2016 at 9:56 pm

                  good grief CV

                  imo suggesting that anyone or anything “benefits” from Jo Cox’s murder is a sad degeneration of political discourse – into the foetid swamp of shock jock journalism and emotive prejudice-fanning populism

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    25 June 2016 at 1:14 am

                    Did you sleep through all the media commentators during the week talking about how Cox’s murder changed the balance of the polls to pro-REMAIN.

              • Richard McGrath …
                24 June 2016 at 11:19 pm

                So one deranged Brexit-voter (?evidence for that claim) taints the whole movement, does it?

            • Paul 8.2.1.1.1.2
              24 June 2016 at 9:19 pm

              Do you support anti-immigrant lines supported by the Brexit campaign?

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 June 2016 at 9:30 pm

                jobs and houses for locals first. Do you have an issue with that.

                • Paul …
                  24 June 2016 at 9:31 pm

                  No.
                  and do you support anti-immigrant lines supported by the Brexit campaign?

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    24 June 2016 at 9:35 pm

                    you have my answer. And looking at where the BREXIT votes came from, lots of traditional Labour supporters think the same way.

                    • swordfish …
                      24 June 2016 at 9:58 pm

                      Definitely a massive class divide on the issue:

                      To take the recent YouGov mentioned in one of my earlier comments as an example:
                      ………………Remain…………….Leave
                      Socio-economic (excludes Don’t Knows and those who stated they wouldn’t vote)
                      ABC1…………58%………………….42%
                      C2DE…………36%………………….64%

                      (most polls indicated an even greater class divide)

                      Reasonable guess, though, that a disproportionate number of that 36% of C2DEs intending to vote Remain were Labour voters.
                      (although, by the same token, probably also true that a particularly large chunk of the minority (29%) of Labour supporters who favoured Leave were also lower income). Not mutually exclusive.

                      I’m guessing that Labour voting C2DEs were fairly evenly split on the issue. Whereas, working class Tory and, particularly, Ukip supporters would have gone overwhelmingly for Brexit.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      24 June 2016 at 10:01 pm

                      what I condemn is the watered down establishment Left giving fascists the room to take working class votes. Im not going to condemn fascists for being themselves.

                    • weka …
                      24 June 2016 at 11:24 pm

                      “what I condemn is the watered down establishment Left giving fascists the room to take working class votes. Im not going to condemn fascists for being themselves.”

                      I think that’s one of the clearer statements you’ve made about your politics in recent times (the clarity is good).

                      Myself, I’m happy to condemn both.

            • miravox 8.2.1.1.1.3
              24 June 2016 at 9:30 pm

              A more successful campaign yes, but a better campaign?

              I think your definition of better is different than mine.

              Absolutely working class and precariat are sick of the elites. It’s a pity they still fall for empty promises but… and from an EU MP to boot! (Farage) Did you hear the one about 350 mil for the NHS?

              http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/525202/nigel-farage-good-morning-britain-brexit-nhs-eu-money-referendum-itv

            • weka 8.2.1.1.1.4
              24 June 2016 at 11:21 pm

              “BREXITers ran a better campaign and understood their audience better. Also the working class and under class in Britain are clearly sick of the EU elites empty promises.”

              That’s not incompatible with Sans Cle saying, right?

              “However I think Brexiters played a bitter divisive campaign, easily manipulating emotions.”

          • infused 8.2.1.1.2
            25 June 2016 at 1:07 am

            That’s bullshit and you know it. You’re just salty.

            The fact is, the UK is much better off out of the EU. Not right now, but in a few years they will be saying WTF were we doing in the EU.

            • Lanthanide 8.2.1.1.2.1
              25 June 2016 at 8:08 am

              Projections are for permanently lowered economic growth.

              I guess the existing wealth could be distributed through the population better, but that seems like a very left wrung view for someone like yourself.

            • dv 8.2.1.1.2.2
              25 June 2016 at 11:51 am

              Infused UK??
              Will Scotland and Ireland will leave UK huh

        • Sans Cle 8.2.1.2
          24 June 2016 at 9:08 pm

          P.S. My response was to Miravox, not BM

    • Rae 8.3
      25 June 2016 at 8:49 am

      I have an image in my mind of Johnson greeting Donald off the plane on a windy day

  9. Tanz 9
    24 June 2016 at 8:42 pm

    Go Trump, the right is golden right now.

  10. miravox 10
    24 June 2016 at 8:43 pm

    I said they were idiots? I don’t think so.

    Looking past the media fuckwittery is exactly what I’ve been doing.

    I’m not liking the view.

  11. Sans Cle 11
    24 June 2016 at 8:52 pm

    Putin must be delighted this morning.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1
      24 June 2016 at 8:57 pm

      Why? The west has always been proud of its democratic traditions. And the people have spoken.

      • Sans Cle 11.1.1
        24 June 2016 at 9:01 pm

        a) A distraction
        b) weakening of NATO
        c) weakening of EU
        d) transaction costs of BREXIT over next 5 years will suck up so many EU resources

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:07 pm

          Maybe if the Western Elite concentrated on looking after their own people instead of starting hybrid war brushfires in faraway countries, their people would have voted to REMAIN.

          Sorry if you find democracy too inconvenient to handle.

          • Sans Cle 11.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 9:12 pm

            CV your discussion style is informed and I read your comments with interest. But please do not jump to conclusions about my opinion of democracy. You are way off the mark.

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:32 pm

              Going full circle, Putin will only be pleased if a Brexit gives Europe some backbone to make its own military and foreign policy independent of the US neocon establishment.

          • Reddelusion 11.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2016 at 11:15 pm

            Good point CV, progressive lefties again simplyfying the result as people voting against thier self interest, brainless racist etc. Maybe just maybe this is democracy at work where working class people and other where sick of an unaccountable elite in Brussels ruling thier lives that they can’t vote in or out. all this fear mongering will pass, the U.S., survives with out been in the EU, China has been very successful with out been in the EU etc, Britian to will travel its own path successfully over time, As the second biggest economy in Europe I don’t think it has much to worry about.

            • gnomic 11.1.1.1.2.1
              25 June 2016 at 12:44 am

              Bluehalfwit,

              Please refrain from this subliterate drivel. If you have nothing sensible to say and are incapable of coming up with comprehensible English say nothing.

        • ScottGN 11.1.1.2
          24 June 2016 at 9:17 pm

          I don’t think it’s axiomatic to assume that NATO (which stands outside of the EU) is necessarily weakened by this result. And it’s not like Putin doesn’t have problems of his own, sucking up resources etc.

      • Stuart Munro 11.1.2
        24 June 2016 at 9:05 pm

        Putin benefits from destabilising Europe – is depending on it according to Soros. You might not like Soros but he knows a thing or two about economic stability.
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/11/putin-threat-europe-islamic-state

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:15 pm

          Hardly. If the EU elites were in the slightest bit interested in stability they would be looking after their own people instead of parading NATO tanks hundreds of metres from the Russian border, and implementing US sourced sanctions against Russia which hurt EU farmers but cost the US nothing.

          As for Soros, he was a prime funder of regime change in Ukraine destabilising the democratically elected government, replacing it with an unconstitutional regime of thugs and oligarchs.

          • Stuart Munro 11.1.2.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 9:30 pm

            Maybe you could use a little more ice in your RT Koolaid.

            • Peter Swift 11.1.2.1.1.1
              24 June 2016 at 9:54 pm

              lol

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1.1.2
              24 June 2016 at 9:57 pm

              Even German Foreign Minister Steinmeier said that it is foolish for NATO to keep provoking Russia with warmongering.

              A brave man for speaking out against NATO’s US driven agenda.

              • Stuart Munro …
                24 June 2016 at 10:09 pm

                There is some truth in what Russia has to say, but they too are interested in destabilising their neighbours, and so their agitprop needs a bit of salt.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  24 June 2016 at 10:20 pm

                  yes Russia is placing its country closer and closer to NATO bases

                  • GregJ …
                    24 June 2016 at 10:55 pm

                    Yeah its appalling that sovereign NATO countries like Poland, Estonia, Latvia, & Lithuania should position forces in their own territory near their shared border with Russia. And why would Moldova want to join NATO for?

                    I mean after all what have the Russians ever done to any of them?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      25 June 2016 at 12:30 am

                      Hey, pop quiz: what major historical war caused the Soviet Union to decide that it needed a massive military buffer against European power Germany?

                      As for your claims that the Baltics are independent countries – no, they are now just US/NATO colonies and sacrificial tripwire zones.

                    • GregJ …
                      25 June 2016 at 9:51 am

                      You know for a clever guy CV you have a real blindspot about Russia and Putin. Perhaps a little less time regurgitating RT rhetoric and more time spent talking to actual Eastern Europeans and applying some critical thought might help?

                      Estonia for example is an advanced high income country that scores high on the UN Human Development Index for economic freedom, civil liberties, education, and press freedom. And I doubt Poland is anyone’s colony or sacrifice.

                      Frankly I think Stuart Munro is right – you’ve been drinking too much RT koolaid.

      • locus 11.1.3
        24 June 2016 at 9:21 pm

        the people have spoken

        16 million people in the UK voted to remain European …. 17 million voted leave EU to show Westminster how they feel about their regions being economically broken …. 9 million didn’t vote

        Scotland voted Remain
        Northern Ireland voted Remain
        Gibraltar voted Remain
        Young people (those that bothered voting) voted Remain

        democracy???

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.3.1
          24 June 2016 at 9:28 pm

          there are limitations but its the highest nationwide turnout since about 1992

          • locus 11.1.3.1.1
            24 June 2016 at 10:07 pm

            given that the brexiters don’t really know what’s going to happen next and have already backtracked on the claims they were making in their campaign, you have to wonder whether the 52% were as well informed as the 48%

            – but hey, that’s what happens when you base ‘democracy’ on an ill-advised referendum in a post-factual world

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.3.1.1.1
              25 June 2016 at 12:25 am

              tell you what, if you use this kind of argument then its obvious the pro EU crowd campaigning for the UK to join in the 90s had no idea what was going to happen and misinformed voters who went for joining the EU.

              • Sans Cle …
                25 June 2016 at 3:00 am

                It was early 1970s they joined, and very much on the back of creating political stability – they watched the success of the founding EC members (from 1957 I think). Not ill informed at all. EC was a different beast back then – pre monetary union.

              • locus …
                25 June 2016 at 3:05 am

                On the contrary CV… Britain’s membership of the EU was more than 12 years in the making and followed supplications by several British PMs from both the right and the left.

                The British public were better informed over a long period of time, than the last few fevered months of public stunts and proclamations.

                This is not to say that the majority favoured EEC membership:

                Surveys in 1966 showed that public opinion was broadly supportive, but when faced with specific terms, people backed off. In 1966, there was a poll showing that 66% favoured entry, but when people were asked “Would you still favour entry if it put up the price of food by two shillings in the pound?” only 39% were in favour. And when they were asked if entry meant weakening our ties with the Commonwealth, only 25% were in favour, and if it meant that New Zealand agriculture, “would suffer quite a bit”, only 23% were in favour. http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/the-decision-to-seek-entry-into-the-european-community#hyykqbrEdQYpcXPL.99

                As you may know, UK membership was agreed in 1973 following negotiation by the tories – not a public vote. The obligations, benefits and compromises entailed by joining the EEC were well understood by all political parties, and driven by the need to have more of a say in the direction of Europe and by the political and economic realities of Britain’s position and power in the world diminishing year on year since the 50s.

                The idea of putting UK membership to a public referendum on the grounds of ‘democracy’ would have been unthinkable. MPs did their job as they should in a representative democracy.

            • Nic the NZer 11.1.3.1.1.2
              25 June 2016 at 10:06 am

              The reason its not clear what happens next is that very little has actually changed.

              The UK parliament has slightly more autonomy now but can choose to ratify exactly the same policies it would as an EU member if it sees fit.

              The main change is that the UK loby will have considerably less influence on the EU rule making process. Considering the UKs influence there this is probably good for the EU as well.

              • locus …
                25 June 2016 at 12:21 pm

                what will change very soon is that the UK will lose many of the rights it had won e its 43 years as a member state of the EU

                as for what changes at home:
                well we’ll see if the brexiters meet any let alone all of their promises to voters. The bank of england will spend billions shoring up the pound. The UK will probably break apart as Scotland and probably also Northern Ireland choose to leave UK and be within the EU tent. The Tories will become more rabid and more entrenched, which is a good bet that the poor will get poorer. Not to mention the long term effect on the economy and the UK’s standing in the world

                • Nic the NZer …
                  25 June 2016 at 4:13 pm

                  Yes, well of course the major domestic influence of having open borders with the EU for economic migrants has nothing to do with rising inequality. The growth of the UKs low wage sector or an increase in poverty rates. In fact i am probably just being racist even to suggest it.

                  Why do you suggest the BofE should sure up the pound? This would appear to be a counter productive influence on UK exporters when they are dealing with uncertainty as it is. Why should they be helping importers at this time?

                  There is political uncertainty but if thats a problem it can be resolved by politicians simply ratifying the decision in as straight forward a manner as possible. Not that they will.

  12. Stuart Munro 12
    24 June 2016 at 8:52 pm

    You may recall that the economic downturn that precipitated the omnishambles that was Rogergnomics was the result of Britain’s joining the EU and thus restricting market access for NZ’s agricultural products.

    With NZ’s economy in truly shabby shape with the competition for Chinese dairy on top of three terms of lazy faire bullshittery, watch our utterly hopeless incompetent government wrest failure from the jaws of success in obtaining renewed market access subsequent to the Brexit.

  13. Colonial Viper 13
    24 June 2016 at 8:54 pm

    UK Labour BREXIT excuses script for MPs leaked

    ***Do you think David Cameron should resign?

    It is clear that David Cameron has no long-term future as Prime Minister, but the immediate priority is to stabilise the country and the markets.

    He led a campaign of ‘project fear’, which failed to convince his own party supporters or the British public of his case.

    ***Can Labour re-unite divided Britain?

    Yes. Clearly Britain’s largest cities and Scotland have voted to remain, while smaller urban areas and rural areas have voted to leave. Labour is best placed to re-unite the country because we did not engage in project fear, and we put a critical case for remain.

    ***Was this a rejection of Labour’s message?

    No. We raised concerns about Europe throughout – and it’s very clear that Labour areas hit hardest by austerity and that are the most deprived, especially post-industrial

    ***Hasn’t Labour lost touch with its working class base of support?

    Many of the areas hardest hit by this government’s policies have used this referendum as a means to kick a Conservative government that is out of touch. This was a vote against a government that has failed to rebalance the economy, and has failed to deliver the Northern Powerhouse that it keeps announcing.

    ***How do you explain that so many Labour areas have voted Leave?

    Some areas have been deprived of investment for a generation, and feel left behind. Following six years of Tory austerity, and further industrial collapse.

    It is clear that working class people who feel they have not benefited from this Tory recovery have rejected a status quo that has done nothing for them.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-result-leaked-labour-script-tells-partys-mps-to-argue-jeremy-corbyn-led-from-the-front-in-campaign_uk_576cc89ae4b08d2c5638dd7b

    • Gristle 13.1
      24 June 2016 at 11:22 pm

      Aren’t we lucky that the NZ electorate only had a referendum about a flag and not about something major at which anti establishment sentiments could flayed against.

      • Jack Ramaka 13.1.1
        26 June 2016 at 8:27 am

        The Natzis just signed an agreement the TPPA which has bound us into an EU type group like the EU?

    • Nic the NZer 13.2
      25 June 2016 at 8:29 am

      There is a comment above (from Swordfish ) Looking at the socio economic breakdown. The claim is made that much of the 36% of remain must have been labour supporters because of their C2DE socio status. A simpler explanation however is that labour supporters are no longer mostly the low socioeconomic group and that there is a large group who dont vote for political parties at all these days.

      The script above in that context looks rather out of touch with the electorate. It seems the hangover from the early eighties labour led neo-liberal dissolution will take many generations to be forgotten.

      • Paul 13.2.1
        25 June 2016 at 8:33 am

        ‘ It seems the hangover from the early eighties labour led neo-liberal dissolution will take many generations to be forgotten.’

        I agree.
        People have not forgiven Labour parties in the UK and New Zealand for betraying their interests in the 1980s and 1990s. Indeed in New Zealand the betrayal was at its worst and, in effect , a coup d’etat occurred.
        At least there was a brief rearguard action in the UK. However, during the miners’ strike, UK Labour failed to support them and Thatcherism prevailed.

      • Colonial Viper 13.2.2
        25 June 2016 at 8:44 am

        A simpler explanation however is that labour supporters are no longer mostly the low socioeconomic group and that there is a large group who dont vote for political parties at all these days.

        Good point!. Yep 28% of registered voters did not vote…chances are that they are from the bottom quartile of society not the top

        • Paul 13.2.2.1
          25 June 2016 at 8:48 am

          ‘28% of registered voters did not vote…chances are that they are from the bottom quartile of society not the top’
          Almost for certain

  14. GregJ 14
    24 June 2016 at 9:01 pm

    The pressure to call fall a General election may well continue (already it’s making its way into the narrative). As some commentator said this morning it is going to be difficult for a parliament where 3/4s of the MPs are opposed to leaving to are now legislate and navigate the exit process.

    • GregJ 14.1
      24 June 2016 at 9:20 pm

      There appears to be a problem at the moment – this comment (above) was a reply to @Marty Mars above but has defaulted to making it a stand alone comment.

    • marty mars 14.2
      24 June 2016 at 10:55 pm

      I agree about the pressure to call an election, it is building and our worst fears about what happens next may be realised

      • GregJ 14.2.1
        24 June 2016 at 11:11 pm

        Yeah – and now the Scottish talking of another referendum (and Sinn Fein’s Martin McGuinness calling for border poll on united Ireland after Brexit).

        Trouble at t’ mill indeed!

        • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 12:12 am

          The UK Parliament doesn’t represent the UK people. Thats just par for the course. And thats why Brits just voted against the establishment.

  15. vto 15
    24 June 2016 at 9:27 pm

    It will be good for them. It will make the place individual, unique and special. The pound will be revered like the swiss thing.

  16. Don't worry. Be happy 16
    24 June 2016 at 9:52 pm

    Farage thrilled with his “Independence Day” claimed it was won “without a shot being fired” . Ask the family of Jo Cox about that one why don’t you Nigel ?

  17. Kiwiri 17
    24 June 2016 at 9:53 pm

    My wife just wondered out loud whether we might end up with Boris as PMoUK and Donald as POTUS.

  18. Ad 18
    24 June 2016 at 9:54 pm

    It’s the only good decision Cameron could have made. But Prime Minister Boris is not going to be pretty: he will turn Britain into a cartoon of itself.

    I seriously wish for UK Labour to hold it together, and let the Conservatives fracture by themselves.

    The British mirror with the US Republicans is getting stronger and stronger. Even though I expect so much more instability to come, it is so not what the world needs. GLobal immigration is cracking the developed world.

    • Kiwiri 18.1
      24 June 2016 at 10:10 pm

      I seriously wish for UK Labour to hold it together, and let the Conservatives fracture by themselves.

      While Blair and the Blairites may see the Conservatives as opponents across the House, they are quite likely to see Corbyn as the enemy.

    • Reddelusion 18.2
      24 June 2016 at 11:20 pm

      Why do you really care about UK labour, our interest hardly lie with the UK any more, pretty much irrelevant barring historical ties

      • Colonial Viper 18.2.1
        25 June 2016 at 12:14 am

        UK Labour and NZ Labour have the same level of relevance. Check out the talking points script given to UK Labour MPs over the BREXIT decision.

    • infused 18.3
      25 June 2016 at 1:10 am

      Again, as selfish as you were in the other thread. This isn’t about you, or the rest of the world. It’s about the UK.

    • b waghorn 18.4
      25 June 2016 at 7:55 am

      “GLobal immigration is cracking the developed world.”
      The immigration would settle down if the war pigs and the greedy were reigned in, much better to help them build their own nations than build walls.

  20. Greg 20
    24 June 2016 at 10:21 pm

    WOW no one has drawn the conclusion how Key should have resigned after the flag referendum, doing the honorable thing, third time lucky in the election.

    Irve been posting welcome back to the commonwealth jibes.

    The markets will recover.
    NZ interest rates drop.Inflation heads towards zero.

    The poms will still buy our wine.

    I read they want to deport criminals, n no more refugee’s,

    • Adrian 20.1
      24 June 2016 at 11:24 pm

      Ah,no they won’t, most exporters make very little on wine to Britain as their market is very competitive and price conscious.
      It has already gone up by 10-15% on tonight’s crash, which means that to maintain market share the wine content price ( in NZ dollars ) will drop 20% , below cost of production and export costs etc.
      This knee jerk assumption without any thought as to consequences sums up the whole Leave argument which is why it was so successful amongst those who are a bit thick.

      • ScottGN 20.1.1
        25 June 2016 at 8:02 am

        And this sort of condescending sneering on the part of the political, business and cultural elite towards the ordinary British voter is one of the reasons why they said “bugger off”.

    • b waghorn 20.2
      25 June 2016 at 7:59 am

      A stronger dollar vs pound could crash lamb meat prices here. Its a big market for nz .

  21. GregJ 21
    24 June 2016 at 10:44 pm

    Nicola Sturgeon just announced that a 2nd Scottish referendum likely and Scottish Parliament will begin preparations now for when (if?) the UK Parliament decides to announce a new referendum process.

  22. Sans Cle 22
    24 June 2016 at 11:00 pm

    From my listening to BBC: Scotland annoyed that UK will leave EU. EU membership and benefits were part of the campaign to keep Scotland in UK, in Scottish referendum last year. Hoodwinked!
    Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland is agitating for a unification of northern and Republic of Ireland, on premise that Northern Ireland agri sector will not survive without the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy, and NI’s other sectors will be affected.
    So much uncertainty.

  23. marty mars 23
    24 June 2016 at 11:03 pm

    On the horizon i see the don and nige atop their lofty heights and no one arguing about the end of civilisation as we know it anymore.

  24. Ovid 24
    24 June 2016 at 11:07 pm

    BREAKING: a motion of no confidence in Leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn has been tabled – BBC Journalist Chris Mason on Twitter.

    • Kiwiri 24.1
      24 June 2016 at 11:10 pm

      Wow. Amazing opportunistic regime change under way on both sides of the House.

      • Bill 24.1.1
        24 June 2016 at 11:43 pm

        Pointless posturing/shit stirring. The UK Labour Party leader is elected on a basis of one member = one vote. The caucus hold no extra sway.

        Get rid of him today and he’ll be re-elected tomorrow.

  25. Incognito 25
    24 June 2016 at 11:29 pm

    This seems to be the Post where most of the ‘action’ is so I might as well comment here.

    When I read “Independence Day” or “look after the locals first” it really comes down to looking after Number One first and foremost. This is nothing new coming from Western-style neo-imperialistic colonialists hiding behind corporate walls & desks with fancy job titles (and the odd knighthood) and sky-high remuneration packages, while advocating free trade agreements that are good for business and thus good for ‘the nation’, AKA neo-liberal capitalists.

    It is really depressing that some of the richest nations in the World are now trying to pull up the drawbridge instead of sacrificing or simply sharing some (!) of their oft ill-gotten gains to help those that are a lot (!) worse off.

    Me, me, me! The selfishness and greed of people knows no bounds so leaving a union or building a wall is very much a one-sided action to stop ‘traffic’ going one way but most definitely not stopping ‘traffic’ going the other way.

    This same kind of selfish superiority can be seen at local level as well, which comes as no surprise either, as it reflects the attitudes from human beings towards each other, whether it is about local patch protection or at national level; it is displayed by the same bloody fearful people living amongst us in our communities.

    No wonder we cannot solve (child) poverty, for example, as it is these same attitudes that block each & every attempt to improve the lives of others who are less fortunate; the lack of ‘political will’ it is sometimes called, which conveniently puts the responsibility at the feet of our elected representatives, the politicians – they have learned how to avoid or deflect embarrassment or blame as well as we ourselves have.

    Frankly, this mentality sucks! Not just figuratively but also literally: it increases and perpetuates inequality. It maintains the status quo or worse, it harks back to nostalgic ‘good old times’ with an unhealthy dose of nationalistic conservatism that easily morphs into right-wing extremism and jingoism.

    I don’t predict any doom from Brexit specifically; it’s just another step down a well-trodden path towards an inevitable outcome. We are not forced to walk down this path; we do it by choice although many of us just follow the ‘flock’. I confess here & now on TS that, most of the time, I’m one of those ‘sheeple’ and thus an utter hypocrite for writing this comment.

    • weka 25.1
      24 June 2016 at 11:47 pm

      When I read “Independence Day” or “look after the locals first” it really comes down to looking after Number One first and foremost.

      Not necessarily. I think it’s more about looking after the group that one recognises and there are good and bad motivations underlying that. Sometimes that can be xenophobic, sometimes selfish. But it’s also possible that one wants to protect something valuable. I don’t believe in open borders, nor closed ones. I’d prefer that we managed our resources sustainably (which means that population IS an issue), and that we address equity and fairness issues in other ways (e.g. offer immigration to refugees first, send more of our wealth to places in the world that need it and take a cut in our own standard of living).

      • b waghorn 25.1.1
        25 June 2016 at 9:01 am

        “(which means that population IS an issue),”
        Population is THE issue.
        7 billion elephants in the room no one wants to discuss.

        • weka 25.1.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 10:12 am

          Or 4.5 million elephants that people are ignoring by pointing to the ones across the street 😉

      • Incognito 25.1.2
        26 June 2016 at 10:43 pm

        I pretty much agree with your comment and I was not advocating open borders as such.

        Protecting something valuable does not necessarily equal ownership IMO (e.g. who owns the water and waterways here in NZ) and this raises questions as to who is protecting from whom and for whom and what does “protection” actually mean or entail? Do these questions make any sense?

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1
          26 June 2016 at 11:50 pm

          The simple question is – do you believe in the idea of a nation state with sovereignty over, and integrity of, its own affairs. I do.

    • Colonial Viper 25.2
      25 June 2016 at 12:19 am

      Sorry incognito but this vote shows that people are tired of seeing their lives and their communities fucked over because of your liberal globalist values.

      • Incognito 25.2.1
        26 June 2016 at 10:59 pm

        I would consider my values more social ones but never let a good label stick in permanence.

        I’ve been known to “fuck over” many helpless and hapless people through the sheer force of my “liberal globalist values” and I’m a force to be reckoned with.[sarc]

        Crikey! I’m trying to point out that IMO the source/origin of many social ‘ills’, be they global (refugees & immigrants), national (e.g. child poverty) or local (e.g. NIMBYism), is one and the same and that a solution, if there is one, is to be found there as well.

        In any case, people being tired may be a reason but not an excuse!

        • Colonial Viper 25.2.1.1
          26 June 2016 at 11:52 pm

          People don’t need to provide either you or I with any excuse or justification for their vote.

    • b waghorn 25.3
      25 June 2016 at 8:57 am

      Well said.

  26. Pat 26
    24 June 2016 at 11:33 pm

    it gets messier and messier…..the rise of a city state?

    “More on joint efforts by Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and the London mayor, Sadiq Khan, to secure some kind of referendum opt-out for Scotland and London.

    Here’s what Sturgeon said:

    I have made it clear to the prime minister this morning that the Scottish government must be fully and directly involved in any and all decisions about the next steps that the UK government intends to take.

    We will also be seeking direct discussions with the EU institutions and its member states including the earliest possible meeting with the President of the European Commission.

    I also be communicated over the weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU and I intend to discussion all options for doing so.

    I have also spoken this morning with [London] mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London, so there is clear common cause between us.

    Khan’s office confirmed that he had talked to Sturgeon about the need for Scotland and London to be involved in Brexit negotiations.”

  27. weka 27
    24 June 2016 at 11:40 pm


    BREAKING: a motion of no confidence in Leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn has been tabled – BBC Journalist Chris Mason on Twitter.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/brexit-cameron-resigns/#comment-1193850

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-resign-brexit-eu-referendum-labour-leader-a7100446.html

    Hang on. Corbyn, who has historically been for leaving the EU, campaigned during the referendum that if the vote went for Remain he would work to reform from within (sounds reasonable), is now being challenged on his leadership by his MPs because they don’t like a public referendum result and they think that if he had behaved differently then he could have gotten people to vote differently? Isn’t that fucking paternalistic? Not to mention opportunistic.

    Naughty Labour voters not voting the way the Labour Party wanted them to.

    • Bill 27.1
      24 June 2016 at 11:47 pm

      Between a “Labour source” claiming it was all the fault of the SNP and now this, well… (whats the face tag thing for ‘derision’?)

    • Bill 27.2
      24 June 2016 at 11:56 pm

      Noice of the Guardian to headline that motion of no confidence in Corbyn in preference to headlining the resignation of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, duntyathink?

      The establishment fight back? 🙂

      • Colonial Viper 27.2.1
        25 June 2016 at 12:22 am

        Listening to Jacob Appelbaum’s comment on how poorly The Guardian has treated whistleblowers, its very clear to me now that The Guardian is almost as co-opted as every other MSM channel.

        • Bill 27.2.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 12:32 am

          Guardian aside…just wondering about these Labour fuckwit MPs. Shouldn’t they have been going for a motion of ‘no confidence’ on the current Tory government?

          • Colonial Viper 27.2.1.1.1
            25 June 2016 at 12:38 am

            Why attack the Tories when they are wounded when you can attack your own Leader in order to forward your personal Shadow Cabinet aspirations. Which wouldn’t happen if you wasted energy attacking the Conservatives.

            • Draco T Bastard 27.2.1.1.1.1
              25 June 2016 at 1:34 am

              That does seem to be the case. They’ve obviously planned this for some time and are using the disruption of the Brexit referendum to stick it to the majority voted Left leaning leader that they don’t like.

    • Lanthanide 27.3
      25 June 2016 at 12:00 am

      It’s been said by various media outlets that Corbyn ran a lack-luster and wishy-washy campaign in favour of Remain, with many Labour voters ‘confused’ as to the Labour party’s position on brexit.

      • Bill 27.3.1
        25 June 2016 at 12:11 am

        Corbyn is anti the undemocratic bureaucratic and financially centered bullshit of Brussels. That makes perfect sense. He’s also pro- European social union. Now since the former stands in the way of the latter…

        Go try sell that in a soundbite if you dare.

        • Colonial Viper 27.3.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 12:34 am

          Seems like London Labour is a similar curse to our Thorndon Bubble Labour.

    • Draco T Bastard 27.4
      25 June 2016 at 1:31 am

      Naughty Labour voters not voting the way the Labour Party wanted them to.

      It would be interesting to see how many Labour Party members voted to leave. If that’s a majority then this would be the Labour MPs revolting against the membership.

      But, then, we’ve seen that before haven’t we.

  28. Pat 28
    24 June 2016 at 11:49 pm

    Merkel offers a way out(or should i say back in)….

    “In the European treaties there is a clear set and orderly procedure for member states who want to leave the European Union. This procedure involves several years of negotiations, at the end of which we will have established the details of Britain’s departure from the European Union. While the negotiations are ongoing, Britain remains a member of the EU. All the rights and commitments that pertain to this membership are to be respected and fulfilled until the actual exit. This applies to both sides.”

    • Lanthanide 28.1
      25 June 2016 at 12:03 am

      It’s quite conceivable that there’ll be a second referendum to ratify the ‘final’ decision.

      This referendum was marked but a lot of mis-understanding, lack of facts and outright lies by both sides of the debate.

      If the public are faced with “here are the policies we will enact if you vote to leave the EU, vs status quo if you vote to stay”, and the policies include such things as higher tax rates and the specifics of the trade deal, then the debate would be much more informed.

      • Bill 28.1.1
        25 June 2016 at 12:07 am

        Ireland austerity re-dux? Keep the buggers voting until they learn to return the ‘correct’ result?

        • Lanthanide 28.1.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 12:15 am

          Yes.

          I mean, you can even add in Scottish independence into the mix. I’m not sure it was ever spoken about as a serious consequence to a leave vote during these campaigns, but it is clearly on the cards now. So if you re-run the referendum, and if “leave” wins it means Scotland buggers out of the UK and remains a member of the EU in its own right, how does that single fact alone change the voting patterns – of both Scotland and England? Farage was acting like this is a ‘new dawn’ for an independent UK, but is it really, if Scotland leaves?

          And, there’s even potential troubles for Ireland again. If the UK actually leave the EU, it may require an actual hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, so N.Ire may themselves decide they want to leave the UK and unify with Ireland.

          • Sans Cle 28.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2016 at 12:40 am

            Peter Sutherland (former Irish MEP) and former head of WTO speculated that Brexit may benefit Ireland as US capital (FDI) will switch from UK to Ireland on next 10 years (English speaking EU country etc etc). Irish commentators are worried. They entered EC with Britain, and are the only country with land border with UK.

      • Pat 28.1.2
        25 June 2016 at 12:07 am

        the question is how will the British public react?…..is classic can kicking by EU….and the usual overriding of democracy….will they accept it?

  29. Bill 29
    25 June 2016 at 12:04 am

    The author JK Rowling, who voted against independence, has implied she would now rethink her position, and Salmond said major Scottish employers and companies, such as the whisky giant Diageo, would consider whether Scottish independence within the EU would ensure their continued access to the EU single market.

    BOOM!

    The significance of Rowling is that she was a vociferous voice for ‘No’ and fairly rounded on for that stance. As for market access well, that speaks for itself. So here’s a loose thought. All that oil revenue that flowed south in the 70s, 80s, 90s and on…wonder how much of that would be balanced out by international companies re-locating from England to retain access to the EU’s single market in an independent, European member state, Scotland?

    edit – link… http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/alex-salmond-second-scottish-independence-referendum-is-certain

  30. DS 30
    25 June 2016 at 5:29 am

    The EU is a right-wing undemocratic (or as Greece found out, anti-democratic) monstrosity. It’s a crying shame that the Brexit campaign was hijacked by the far-right, but ultimately the point remains that British voters can vote out Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. They can’t vote out the European Commission when it bans democratically-elected governments from nationalising stuff, or when it enforces deregulation and austerity. They can’t vote out the European Court of Justice when it rules that the rights of capital trump the rights of labour.

    It beats me why anyone on the left should cheer for membership of an organisation that enshrines a commitment to corporate capitalism in its very constitution.

  31. Ad 31
    25 June 2016 at 6:30 am

    Bryan Gould on the Labour campaign for Brexit:

    “The Labour party, in terms of domestic politics, has clearly missed a major opportunity. Analysis of the voting pattern will surely show that a majority of Labour voters were in favour of leaving. The Labour leadership had the chance, not only to reflect and lead that preference, rather than distance themselves from it, but also to place itself at the head of that majority who were fed up with the obvious, serious and growing deficiencies of the EU as a model for European integration. Jeremy Corbyn has – through timidity rather than conviction – placed himself on the losing side and missed the chance to exploit the unavoidable blow to the authority of the Tory government that the Brexit decision represents.

    He took refuge in an argument for remaining that should surely have no place in the vocabulary of a Labour leader. He urged Labour supporters to vote remain on the surprising ground that there were provisions, particularly concerning workers’ rights, that were beyond the reach of democratic change by an elected British government. How odd that Labour should endorse the concept of government by an unelected European bureaucracy. How much more constructive and politically astute if he had faithfully represented the views of Labour voters (and almost certainly his own personal preference) as a step towards a democratically elected Labour government that would have been the best protector of workers’ rights.”

  32. Paul 32
    25 June 2016 at 8:28 am

    How much longer are people going to keep listening to this clown Key?
    Like his mate,Cameron, he should resign.

    Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

    Brexit raises risk of global recession as financial markets plunge worldwide
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11663229

    • Paul 32.1
      25 June 2016 at 8:39 am

      Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

      UK’s out vote proves a ‘game-changer’ for US stocks, oil and gold

      US markets fell sharply of Friday as American traders tried to reckon with a newly uncertain future in the wake of the shock “leave” result of the UK Brexit referendum.
      All the major US markets suffered losses with the Dow Jones diving 608 points, a fall of 3.39%. The S&P 500 lost 76 points, a fall of 3.6% and the technology heavy Nasdaq was the biggest loser of the day, falling 202 points, or 4.1%.
      Kenny said the unease in the markets would likely keep the Federal Reserve from raising rates in the short term, and in the long term the consequences would be far-reaching.
      Gold prices – which rise in times of uncertainty – jumped to their highest levels since October 2013, rising 8%, while US crude oil prices fell about 7% on fears that the global economy – and demand for oil – would slow.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/gold-prices-oil-eu-referendum-out-vote

      • Paul 32.1.1
        25 June 2016 at 8:46 am

        Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

        Moody’s, the credit rating agency, has just lowered the outlook on Britain’s credit rating to negative from stable.
        It says that Britain’s economic growth will be weaker, following the EU referendum vote. It also warns the the public finances will be weaker than previously forecast, meaning it will be harder to cut the deficit.
        In a gloomy update, Moody’s says that the Brexit vote will herald a “prolonged period of uncertainty” for the UK, with negative implications for growth in the medium terms.

        • Paul 32.1.1.1
          25 June 2016 at 10:05 am

          How much longer are people going to keep listening to this clown Key?

          Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

          ‘Brexit wipes $2 trillion off stock markets

          Roughly US$2 trillion was wiped off global stocks after Britain’s shock vote to leave the European Union sparked carnage in sharemarkets from New Zealand to London.
          In case you’re having trouble getting your head around that – two trillion is two thousand billion. And remember, one billion is one thousand million.
          Wall Street had its biggest sell-off in 10-months overnight, with the S&P 500 share index dropping 3.6 per cent and the Nasdaq plunging 4.1 per cent.
          That followed a torrid day’s trading in Europe which saw London’s FTSE 100 plunge more than 8 per cent at the open before recovering, to close down 3.2 per cent, after Bank of England governor Mark Carney pledged to do whatever it takes to support the markets.’

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11663295

          • Paul 32.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2016 at 2:56 pm

            How much longer are people going to keep listening to this clown Key?
            Like his mate,Cameron, he should resign.

            Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM
            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

            ‘Brexit to put pressure on mortgage rates
            Mortgage rates may rise as a result of Britain’s decision to leave the European Union.
            Bank economists in New Zealand expect the cost of bank funding to rise as a result of the uncertainties over the Brexit.
            In times of uncertainty, investors demand a higher “risk premium” for lending their money, ASB economist Nick Tuffley said.
            “At the moment we are seeing the UK and European bank stocks have been hit quite heavily.”
            “There will be inevitable increases in credit risk premiums for banks in general and that will include for Australia and New Zealand,” he said.
            Exactly what that will mean for mortgage rates is unknown as there remains a lot of uncertainty to work through, he said.
            “We have seen a rise in funding costs and risk premiums coming through.”
            Tuffley is not alone in noting the rising funding costs for banks.
            Dominick Stephens from Westpac said: “Global financial markets are shocked.”
            “Global interest rate markets have reacted by pushing credit spreads wider, while expectations of interest rate hikes from the US Federal Reserve have been pegged back.”
            Even as funding costs are rising, there’s speculation that the Brexit will increase the likelihood of an Official Cash rate cut by the Reserve Bank.
            “In New Zealand, pricing has moved decidedly in favour of an OCR cut in August, which seems reasonable at this stage. Markets have also moved to price in some chance of the OCR falling below 2 per cent,” Stephens said.

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/81451790/brexit-to-put-pressure-on-mortgage-rates

    • Reddelusion 32.2
      25 June 2016 at 10:16 am

      Paul you where all doom and gloom at the beginning of the year as well, cry wolf comes to mind The sun will come up tomorrow and overtime every thing will adjust to the new normal cheer up cherub

  33. Paul 33
    25 June 2016 at 9:53 am

    When UK Labour had a vision……

  34. Paul 34
    25 June 2016 at 4:36 pm

    First we had this…..
    ‘Brexit’s impact on NZ will be limited – PM’

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/307217/brexit's-impact-on-nz-will-be-limited-pm

    Trillions wiped off the world stock market, the NZ dollar in decline, a risk of another recession has escalated……
    Never mind, Key says nothing to look at here…

    Now we get this…
    ‘Markets will settle after Brexit – Key’
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/307270/markets-will-settle-after-brexit-key

    How much longer are people going to keep listening to this clown Key?