Corbyn is in

139 comments on “Corbyn is in ”

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1. James 1

   13 July 2016 at 10:58 am

   Excellent news
   • mosa 1.1

     14 July 2016 at 9:30 pm

     +1
2. Enough is Enough 2

   13 July 2016 at 11:11 am

   What will the Blairites do?

   Another vote of no confidence in their leader once Corbyn is re-elected by the membership.
   • weka 2.1

     13 July 2016 at 11:16 am

     and then what?
     • Enough is Enough 2.1.1

       13 July 2016 at 12:20 pm

       Destroy the party.

       I don’t really know though. The Blairites are particular blend of fools, idiots and Tories in drag.
3. ianmac 3

   13 July 2016 at 11:23 am

   Great news for Jeremy.
   Maybe those awful disloyal PLP Mps will either suddenly get a hypocritical dose of loyalty OR
   Resign on principle OR
   Start a Blairlike Party (That would be popular!) OR
   Join the Conservative Party (Nearer their belief systems) OR
   Shift to Europe.
   • Wayne 3.1

     13 July 2016 at 3:43 pm

     If Corbyn wins, which he will, does that lead to large numbers of these MP’s (the “disloyal”) being de-selected?

     The new candidate may be much less popular with the voting public than the current de-selected MP. It may be very difficult for the new candidate to simply characterize the sitting MP as a Blairite, since many of them are quite clearly not.

     So quite probably trouble ahead for Labour, when Corbyn wins the leadership contest. The MP’s who don’t have confidence in him now are unlikely to suddenly get it because he has won.
     • TC 3.1.1

       13 July 2016 at 4:29 pm

       Not an issue for national with the autocracy that is the hollowmen and their wall street trained front man JK.
     • Kevin 3.1.2

       13 July 2016 at 5:33 pm

       The sitting MP may not be a Blairite but they have shown gross disloyalty, many from day one, to their leader.

       If they do not like Jeremy Corbyn as leader, for whatever reason, then they should be serioulsy reconsidering their position. He was, and will be again, elected by the members and affiliates of the Labour Party. THEY make the decision not the PLP. The tail does not wag the dog.

       I think many of the disaffected need to face up to the reality that their natural home is probably the Tory’s, whether they admit it or not.
       • Peter 3.1.2.1

         13 July 2016 at 10:07 pm

         I think you are wrong I believe the tail does wag the dog, and not just in the Labour party he who pays the piper calls the tune.
     • Stuart Munro 3.1.3

       13 July 2016 at 10:51 pm

       Judging by the surging popularity of Corbyn, Corbyn certified ‘Blair-free’ candidates will probably increase majorities and will likely depose the vile far-right failed regime at the next election. Like NZ Labour’s leadership process they can get a lot of airplay – and if the airplay consists of ousting neo-liberals they can expect an enthusiastic public response. Corbyn only needs a sensible alliance with the SNP and he’ll be set to set about hosing out the Augean stables of far-right corruption.
       • Chooky 3.1.3.1

         13 July 2016 at 11:03 pm

         +100…hope so!
     • Katipo 3.1.4

       13 July 2016 at 11:32 pm

       If ever a country needed MMP. Much like the US, their current systems are only creating a huge numbers of disenfranchised voters.
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.4.1

         14 July 2016 at 2:39 am

         Nope, MMP makes the situation of careerist MPs much worse. You can never get rid of shite right wing MPs in an MMP system. Local party members and local electorate voters can vote such an MP out but they will get in again and again on the party list.
4. weka 4

   13 July 2016 at 11:24 am

   I know that radical change can be scarey, and there are no guarantees, but the Blairites are probably doing the world a favour. Time for UKLP to sort its shit out once and for all, and let the Blairites and the Left wingers go their separate ways however that might unfold. We need that degree of honesty and transparency instead of trying to hide it all in the party. I’m saying ‘we’ because what’s happening in the UK is having far reaching consequences.
5. dukeofurl 5

   13 July 2016 at 12:25 pm

   Just replace Corbyn with Foot and look back to see how that turned out over time. A political party isnt like an extended family with the same participants that last generations, ( although some seem to harbour grudges over events that happened 30 years in NZ case) people move in and out of parties, increase or decrease their involvement as they have changes in their lives too.

   The US is an extreme example of really only having 2 doors to chose from for the big range of political views, while UK and Australia have one or two more doors, but not as much as NZ which would have 6-7 doors. Italy would be example with maybe 10-11 doors for exactly the right type of political party to suit your own views.
   eg Italy
   Democratic Party (PD) Social democracy
   The People of Freedom (PdL) Liberal conservatism
   Five Star Movement (M5S) Populism
   Civic Choice (SC) Liberalism
   Lega Nord (LN) Regionalism
   Left Ecology Freedom (SEL) Democratic socialism
   Civil Revolution (RC) Anti-corruption
   Brothers of Italy (FdI) National conservatism
   Union of the Centre (UdC) Christian democracy
   Act to Stop the Decline Economic Liberalism

   For countries with only a few ‘doors’ you would be sharing a party with others who can seem to have completely different views.
   • Sanctuary 5.1

     13 July 2016 at 8:40 pm

     May won’t call an early election, so the next election is four years away. Corbyn will have reformed the party well before then.

     Like I have said before, this coup was triggered by the flimiest of excuses – Brexit – but the timing is all about the September Labour party conference. The PLP is desperate to prevent Corbyn being leader then. Why? Because Corbyn will use the conference to make changes that will decisively shift the balance of power away from the PLP to the membership. For example, seven positions on the NEC are up for election, pro Corbyn candidates will sweep the board giving them an iron grip on that body. Re selection will be brought back. Members will have have a greater say in policy. All of this represents a disaster to a PLP that is fundamentally neoliberal and managerialist.
6. dukeofurl 6

   13 July 2016 at 1:28 pm

   I see the UK labour NEC has changed its membership rules slightly so those that paid £3 will now have to pay an extra £25 to vote in leadership contest. Only applies to those that ‘joined’ in last 6 months.
7. Bill 7

   13 July 2016 at 2:11 pm

   A six month cut off date meaning that only people who were members in January get to vote is hardly democratic, but nothing compared to jacking up the supporters voting fee from £3 to £25. (Unemployment benefit sits at £57.90 for those under 25 and at £73.10 for those over 25)

   Tell me that doesn’t rule out low paid workers, students and the unemployed who would have to part with between 1/3 and a 1/2 of their weekly income to vote.

   In concert with an unending stream of bile and bullshit, the arsewipes of the PLP just might be able to pull this off. At which point “bye-bye Labour”.

   Regardless, England and Wales are in desperate need of electoral reform and, in England, some political party embodiment of civic nationalism.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     13 July 2016 at 2:51 pm

     Yep, that was pretty much what I was thinking. The RWNJs in UKLabour have just tried to price the poor out of being members of UKLabour.

     I’m thinking that a lot of those supporters may just cough up the £25 anyway. If they do it’ll be good for the UK because 1. Corbyn will be UKLabour leader, and 2. UKLabour will have one hell of a war chest for the next election.
     • Sanctuary 7.1.1

       13 July 2016 at 8:26 pm

       The NEC just opened itself up to a lawsuit. Labour’s membership page is clear:

       https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnMIXZOWEAAojNv.jpg:large

       Membership entitles you to vote for the leadership, no if’s or but’s or stand downs. The six month ruling will be challenged in court, and the NEC will lose.

       The PLP plotters sre so incompetent it is unbelievable. The way to get rid if Corbyn should have been easy to work out. At the moment, Corbyn has the backing of the unions, momentum and – crucially – the anti-Blairite social democratic centre, who dispair of the insulated, self righteous and right wing PLP. All that had to happen in the last few months was for a leading anti-Corbyn Labour MP to denounce Blair, apologise for Iraq, and repudiate business as usual managerialism and Corbyn would be toast now.

       The fact that the PLP front bench won’t even apologise en masse for Iraq shows how arrogant, right wing and out of touch the coup plotters are.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

         13 July 2016 at 9:37 pm

         The PLP plotters sre so incompetent it is unbelievable.

         That does seem to be endemic to RWNJs – especially in their Machiavellian manoeuvrings.
         • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1

           14 July 2016 at 2:43 am

           In their own minds however, the entitled PLP types (and their hanger on staffers) believe themselves to be way smarter, way more knowledgeable, and way more cunning than the rest of us.

           That’s why they can be so certain that they have it so right, while the rest of the naive, idealistic, hard left, ignorant membership, have it so wrong.
           • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1.1

             14 July 2016 at 10:35 am

             Yep, that also seems to be endemic to RWNJs.
   • weka 7.2

     13 July 2016 at 3:01 pm

     It’s an extraordinary thing to have done, and there’s no way that they can’t have known or intended teh consequences.

     I didn’t quite follow it exactly,

     However, in a separate decision taken after Corbyn had left the room, the NEC ruled that only those who have been members for more than six months will be allowed to vote – while new supporters will be given two days to sign up as registered supporters to vote in the race, but only if they are willing to pay £25 – far higher than the £3 fee many Corbyn-backers paid in the contest last year.

     Are ‘supporters’ the same as members? So basically anyone who has joined can vote, so long as if they joined in the last 6 months then they pay an additional £25.

     Anyone remember what the sign up rules were on the last NZLP leadership vote?
     • weka 7.2.1

       13 July 2016 at 3:07 pm

       Looks like members and registered supporters are two different things, which begs the question of whether members can pay the extra as well or whether the recent ones are just wholly blocked from voting.

       http://www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2015
       • Bill 7.2.1.1

         13 July 2016 at 3:30 pm

         They pay the extra, if they can afford it, and ‘buy’ a vote in spite of being denied a member’s right to vote.

         Wonder what the possibility is for Corbyn to run a refund as part of his campaign? Pay your £25 if you can rummage that much cash together and we’ll refund £22 afterwards on production of a receipt if we win.

         Might lessen the impact of the NEC decision on his natural support base.
         • Jenny 7.2.1.1.1

           13 July 2016 at 6:03 pm

           “We are fighting a system that resists change.”
           Hone Harawira.

           £25 Poms?

           That’s a lot of dough. This could be interesting.

           Could the Blairites be actively, (openly, or secretly), seeking to recruit an influx of new conservative members to stack the vote?

           Is there any Party rule against being the member of two parties?

           How will it be checked?

           How many Conservatives, Liberal Dems and UKIP members would actually be prepared to pay £25 into the British Labour Party coffers to remove a socialist as the head of the Labour Party?

           Is it possible that the numbers could be big enough to stack the vote?

           Have the Blairites made this calculation?
           • te reo putake 7.2.1.1.1.1

             13 July 2016 at 7:34 pm

             The Tories have been encouraging their supporters to join Labour because they want Corbyn to lead that party. They did that when he was first elected and they’re doing it now. They see Corbyn as a blessing.
             • the pigman …

               13 July 2016 at 7:48 pm

               Running the same line as James, above, and the same line you and the ABCs trotted out about Cunliffe’s leadership, IIRC. Change the record.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 14 July 2016 at 2:44 am

                 TRP is an Labour Establishment Loyalist. A hanger on and a wannabe. Therefore the MPs are the ones who must be backed at all costs, against the general membership.
                 • te reo putake …

                   14 July 2016 at 7:56 am

                   Yeah, bullshit. You know less about me than you know about most things. But haterz gotta hate, I guess.
               • North …

                 14 July 2016 at 8:41 am

                 Hear hear Pigman ! As a Left type person going all the way back to school days I’ve developed a very, very strong distaste for this – “I’m omnipresent and impeccable……disagree with me and you’re an idiot” – the pose taken by some in response to difference about how the Left should proceed.

                 No personal disrespect intended but I have to say I see that pose often expressed in the commentary of TRP and others on this site. It’s a complete turnoff particularly when it’s expressed in authoritarian, thuggish, dismissive terms.
           • the pigman 7.2.1.1.1.2

             13 July 2016 at 7:40 pm

             Hey Jenny – nothing secret about their plans. The anti-Corbyn crew have been signing up people through: https://www.savinglabour.com/

             No doubt they’ll be pushing them to spring for full membership in the next 36 hours in an attempt to counteract and overwhelm the now-disenfranchised ~150k new 3 quid supporters.
             • Bill …

               13 July 2016 at 8:10 pm

               Kinnock was making that call. Point being pigman, that they obviously failed to get the numbers and so the NEC disenfranchised all members who joined in the past six months.

               And they also upped the supporters fee by about 800% so that an unemployed person, or someone on a low wage, or a student, would have to part with about a 1/2 or a 1/3rd of their weekly income to get a vote.

               How many of those who previously parted with £3 and backed Corbyn can spit for £25 you reckon?
               • RedLogix …

                 13 July 2016 at 10:08 pm

                 At what point does it become obvious that the purpose of these right-wing blairites is to keep Labour OUT of power.

                 One of Corbyn’s options is to stand aside, let then run on the fixed condition that if Labour does not win the next election then every PLP member who voted against him resigns from politics altogether.

                 They’d never call his bluff.
                 • Colonial Viper …

                   14 July 2016 at 2:46 am

                   No, once you give up power they will gladly take it and use it to execute and bury you. Observe what happened to Cunliffe.
               • swordfish …

                 13 July 2016 at 10:12 pm

                 “How many of those who previously parted with £3 and backed Corbyn can spit for £25 you reckon?”

                 Here’s YouGov’s Final Leadership poll of Labour Party members and supporter sign-ups (the Labour Selectorate) in August last year – shortly before Corbyn’s win.

                 YouGov (August 2015)
                 Final Round …………..Corbyn……………Cooper

                 Socio-Economic Group
                 ABC1 ……………………….59%………………….41%
                 C2DE ……………………….68%………………….32%

                 Selectorate
                 Members ………………….57%…………………43%
                 3 Pound Sign-Ups ……..66%…………………34%
                 TU Sign-Ups ………………76%…………………24%

                 Membership Length
                 Pre-Miliband ……………..48%…………………52%
                 After Miliband
                 became Leader …………59%…………………41%
                 Post-2015 GE …………….74%…………………26%

                 Lower Income, Sign-Ups and more Recent Members = Strongly Corbyn

                 And the Late June 2016 YouGov of Labour Party members highlights the massive contrast between Recent vs Longer-Standing members / and between Blairite/Brownite Former Members vs Current Supporters who haven’t joined.

                 Corbyn doing Well or Badly ?
                 ………………………………………WELL………..BADLY

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many joining in
                 last 6 months) …………………65%……………32%
                 Before 2015 ……………………38%……………60%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………15%………….84%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined …………………………55%………….42%

                 If Corbyn is replaced as Leader – how likely Labour wins next Election ?
                 ………………………………………Unlikely………..Likely

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many in
                 last 6 months) …………………61%……………26%
                 Before 2015 ……………………40%…………….48%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………34%…………..56%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined ………………………….59%…………..23%

                 Should Corbyn continue as Leader or Step Down now ?
                 ………………………………..CONTINUE………STEP DOWN

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many in
                 last 6 months) …………………65%………………29%
                 Before 2015 …………………….38%………………58%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………13%………………85%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined ………………………….61%……………..33%

                 Were the Shadow Cabinet members who resigned en masse to force Corbyn to stand down – Right or Wrong to do so ?
                 ……………………………………..WRONG…………RIGHT

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many in
                 last 6 months) …………………75%………………22%
                 Before 2015 …………………….47%………………48%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………21%………………73%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined ………………………….71%……………..26%

                 Would you vote for Corbyn in a new Leadership Election ?
                 ……………………………………….YES……………..NO

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many in
                 last 6 months) …………………69%………………30%
                 Before 2015 …………………….36%………………61%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………16%………………85%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined ………………………….63%……………..35%

                 Corbyn vs Eagle – Who would you vote for ?
                 ……………………………………CORBYN………..EAGLE

                 Membership Length
                 After 2015 GE
                 (including many in
                 last 6 months) …………………67%………………25%
                 Before 2015 …………………….36%………………53%

                 Non Members
                 Members who have left
                 (mainly Blairites
                 and Brownites) …………………15%………………56%
                 Supporters who haven’t
                 yet joined ………………………….62%……………..28%

                 A recent poll (which I’ll have to track down) suggests a whole swathe of those Blairite/Brownite Former Members are interested in re-joining to vote Corbyn out.
8. Draco T Bastard 8

   13 July 2016 at 2:46 pm

   Looking at the responses from the RWNJs they’re obviously terrified of Corbyn winning. They know that if he does then the right-wing will lose power and the people will become ascendant and then all the damage that they’ve done to society over the last few decades will be undone, that the rich will have to start paying taxes again rather than continuing as bludgers upon the rest of society.
   • Jenny 8.1

     13 July 2016 at 8:34 pm

     +1
9. Ovid 9

   13 July 2016 at 3:11 pm

   However, in a separate decision taken after Corbyn had left the room, the NEC ruled that only those who have been members for more than six months will be allowed to vote – while new supporters will be given two days to sign up as registered supporters to vote in the race, but only if they are willing to pay £25 – far higher than the £3 fee many Corbyn backers paid in the contest last year.

   That’s an interesting move. Labour UK has two kinds of membership – formal members of the party and registered informal supporters (who aren’t full members but are encouraged to join party). Informal supporters can still vote in the leadership election. A lot of Corbyn’s support came from those people who paid 3 pounds to be informal supporters.

   As it has been less than 12 months since the last leadership election, a lot of Corbyn’s base – the flood of people who registered as supporters – would still be entitled to vote, but some may have gone luke warm. However, increasing the fee to 25 pounds means that there probably won’t be a new influx of supporters hoping to vote for Corbyn over the next two days.
   • Bill 9.1

     13 July 2016 at 3:40 pm

     As it has been less than 12 months since the last leadership election, a lot of Corbyn’s base – the flood of people who registered as supporters – would still be entitled to vote,..

     Not true. The £3 they paid gave them a vote in the previous contest. It gave them no other rights beyond that. All of those people, if they didn’t become members before January, will have to cough up £25 to have a say in this one.
     • Ovid 9.1.1

       13 July 2016 at 4:05 pm

       I think it’s unfair to change the rules while a leadership contest is under way, but having an additional supporter model outside of party membership does strike me as a little odd.
       • Bill 9.1.1.1

         13 July 2016 at 4:35 pm

         This is from the UK Labour Party website (emphasis added)

         Where could my membership take me?

         As a member, you’ll be a key part of the team. You’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections, you can help shape party policy, you can attend local meetings and you can even stand as a candidate.

         That’s not ‘may be eligible to vote’ but an unequivocal ‘will be eligible’.

         I don’t know what the web site blurb is based on, but if it’s an interpretation of their rules or constitution, then the NEC just fucked up big time in trying to disenfranchise about 20% of the party’s members.
         • te reo putake 9.1.1.1.1

           13 July 2016 at 4:44 pm

           Depends on what leadership they are referring to, Bill. Might just be local branch leadership. It’s the actual rules of the party that determine the matter, not the website. And the NEC had plenty of legal advice over the many hours the meeting went on.
           • Bill 9.1.1.1.1.1

             13 July 2016 at 5:40 pm

             It’s a plural trp. Elections. No indication of exceptions. Given that a certain amount of proof-reading would have gone on to make sure the web page was reasonably reflective of the rules or constitution…

             Anyway. See below for how the contest’s probably going to be jigged and rigged.
             • te reo putake …

               13 July 2016 at 5:47 pm

               There are multiple elections in my branch, Bill. It’s just a website and as you say, it is probably reasonably reflective of the rules, but it’s not likely to be even close to definitive.
               • Bill …

                 13 July 2016 at 5:54 pm

                 Aw, c’mon! Are you seriously suggesting that a page meant to be viewed by new members was clumsily and only referencing branch level elections?

                 Anyway, no they won’t be definitive, and that’s why I looked up the Party Rules. (see below)
                 • te reo putake …

                   13 July 2016 at 7:31 pm

                   No, that’s not what I was suggesting, Bill. I was suggesting that you were reading too much in to it.
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2016 at 7:58 pm

                     Ah. I see. Reading “You’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections” as meaning ‘you’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections’ was reading too much into a statement from an official outlet that read “You’ll be eligible to vote in leadership elections”

                     Sure. I get that.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     13 July 2016 at 8:31 pm

                     I love how the Labour establishment loyalist mindset. Having more party members and empowering them is dangerous, undesirable and counterproductive to the Party Hierarchy.
                   • te reo putake …

                     13 July 2016 at 9:15 pm

                     The same group who have just voted to allow corbyn to stand and probably win are intent on disenfranchising potential voters. Yeah, right.

                     Still, it’s great that people who hate the left have the decency to offer labour the benefit of their legal advice.
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2016 at 9:24 pm

                     What makes you think he’ll win?

                     If he was going to win no matter what they did in terms of diminishing the number of eligible voters, then they wouldn’t have whittled away at the number of eligible voters.

                     As for ‘voting’ that he could be on the ballot, they probably didn’t have a leg to stand on with that one and didn’t have the numbers anyway.

                     Of course, in true authoritarian leftist fashion, they wait until the meeting is suitably stacked (so not the same group) and then throw new business on the table – the six month freeze and the £25.
                   • te reo putake …

                     13 July 2016 at 9:32 pm

                     I reckon he’ll get a smaller percentage, Bill, but still make it. Of course he won’t be leader of the opposition then. His 30 to 50 MPs will be a smaller grouping than the ‘real labour party’ or whatever the others call themselves if a purge goes ahead. He wins, he loses. Ironic or what?
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2016 at 9:51 pm

                     No ‘irony or what’ – just a straight up ‘?’ Your comment makes no sense.

                     If he wins, he’ll be the leader of the official opposition. The number of ‘loyal’ MPs will probably increase given that some of them calling for him to step down have just swept along by the bullshit and momentum of those trying to engineer a coup.

                     And then it’s down to members at the branch or constituency level to decide who they want to vote for to act as their representatives at the parliamentary level.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     13 July 2016 at 10:00 pm

                     Fuck the disloyal Blairite MPs. If Corbyn fights thorough to the end, he’ll add another 250,000 new members to Labour and he can have his pick of outstanding left wing candidates.
                   • te reo putake …

                     13 July 2016 at 11:02 pm

                     Think it through, Bill. Nicola Sturgeon could end up leader of the opposition.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     14 July 2016 at 2:50 am

                     The Blairite MPs are determined to protect Labour as their own personal political vehicle, one that they have hijacked from the members.

                     Until they are rooted out of the organisation, Labour will remain Tory Labour and not be a credible Opposition again.
                   • Bill …

                     14 July 2016 at 12:53 pm

                     Seeing as how she’s First Minister, why the fuck would Nicola Sturgeon aspire to be leader of the Opposition…in a parliament she didn’t stand for and isn’t a part of?

                     Apologies if I’ve missed something earth shattering in your comment. I just came across it and haven’t actually ‘thought it through’ on the grounds that there’s nothing there.

                     If it contains something of substance that I missed, get back to me aye?
                   • te reo putake []

                     14 July 2016 at 12:56 pm

                     My mistake, it wouldn’t be Sturgeon, it would be whoever is SNP leader in Westminster. They have 54 seats. Corbyn has some loyalists and no doubt if he wins again, that number will be boosted by others who would be prepared to commit to his leadership. But if the Corbynistas insist on a purge of the rest (some of whom are ‘Blairites’, but most of whom are ‘soft left’), there could be 3 Labour factions, each with their own leader, plus a scattering of MP’s who could choose to stay as independents.

                     My point is that the SNP could be the official opposition by virtue of being the biggest party.
                   • Bill …

                     14 July 2016 at 1:46 pm

                     Again, the use of this word “purge”.

                     Labour Party members choosing who will stand for their constituency, is not in any way, shape or form a “purge”.
                   • te reo putake []

                     14 July 2016 at 1:53 pm

                     A mass deselection, as is being called for by Momentum over there and by some here, is a purge, Bill.
                   • Bill …

                     14 July 2016 at 1:59 pm

                     No it isn’t – not if the ordinary members are the ones controlling the process through elections at the constituency level. That’s called democracy (insofar as voting for representatives can be called democratic).

                     If some grouping within the PLP got rid of some other perceived group within the PLP directly (ie – with no recourse to any of the democratic mechanisms of the party) then that would be a purge.
                   • te reo putake []

                     14 July 2016 at 2:13 pm

                     Hey, I’m only reminding you what the word literally means. You can put your own individual interpretation on it if you want, but you’re on your own. And, as I noted, there’s plenty of people here, and in the UK, quite literally calling for a purge. Use the search bar on TS or google it if you don’t believe me.
                 • Bill …

                   14 July 2016 at 2:44 pm

                   Using democratic mechanisms to ensure that representatives are more representative isn’t easily reconciled with notions of ideologically driven political purges driven from the top down.

                   Using the word in relation to the possible outcome of democratic processes is essentially a smear suggesting that there’s something unsavoury or even potentially violent and unreasonable about people exercising whatever degree of democracy they have at their disposal.

                   Now sure, there are some who will happily attack the concept of democracy, with an aim to discredit it completely, at any and every opportunity that arises.

                   I’m not one of those people, and if it was the case that I was the only one pointing to the stench that results from associating the word “purge” with a degree of democratic accountability, then fine, I’d be that lone voice. The fact seems to be that the term is being used mostly (but not exclusively) by mischievous right wingers and those who’d favour the re-ascendancy of the Blairites.
         • Bill 9.1.1.1.2

           13 July 2016 at 5:08 pm

           This makes the NEC ruling kind of interesting (from the Rule Book)

           Chapter 4
           Elections of national officers of the Party and national committees

           i. The General Secretary shall be the Returning Officer.

           ii. The Returning Officer shall appoint a Labour Party legal advisor to act as Deputy Returning Officer who shall advise on any matters of dispute in respect of eligibility or procedure.

           iii. An Independent Scrutineer will be appointed by the Returning Officer to oversee and verify the ballot, and the results shall be declared at a session of Party Conference.

           iv. The timetable for the election, including any freeze date, and the procedures for agreeing the list of those eligible to vote must be approved by the Independent Scrutineer.

           So the ‘freeze date’ set by the NEC has no standing unless it’s agreed to by the Independent Scrutineer…whoever that may be.

           edit Iain McNicol is the current Gen Sec…who appoints the independent scrutineer. Don’t know anything about Iain McNicol, but it would appear that he holds all the cards.
           • dukeofurl 9.1.1.1.2.1

             13 July 2016 at 5:29 pm

             Ah the rule book !

             And who polices the rule book?

             “Organisation Committee [of the NEC]

             The Organisation Committee is responsible for party rules and constitution; ensuring parties are operating effectively throughout the country to the highest standards and has overall responsibility for membership, investigations, selections, Conferences, electoral law, boundaries strategy and internal elections.
             http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/nec-committees

             This seems to indicate what they have done

             “Registered Supporters

             Registered Supporters will also have an individual vote at future Labour Party leadership elections and, if they are on the electoral register in London, the Primary for Labour’s candidate for London Mayor. They will be required to pay a small fee to participate in such elections.
             http://www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters

             No seems to have thought that the ‘small fee’ could become ‘not so small’
             • Bill …

               13 July 2016 at 5:47 pm

               An object – or should that be abject – lesson on how an organisation can simultaneously eat itself while spitting its entails around the show.
           • Elfrida 9.1.1.1.2.2

             17 July 2016 at 10:07 am

             Thank you for this which helps enormously to clarify this issue.

             It seems obvious that the freeze date and eligibility of ‘new’ members has yet to be agreed by the Independent Scrutineer, aided by the legal advice of the Deputy Returning Officer. Further, that the very procedures under which these decisions are made should be open to scrutiny, and any disputes or challenges scrupulously addressed.

             The freeze date, together with restrictions to voting eligibility have been presented as a fait accompli. The two-day window in which disenfranchised voters are invited to purchase the right to vote begins on Monday the 18th of July. If this timetable is adhered to, it follows that clauses ii, ii and iv cannot possibly be acted upon in a timely way, as the opportunity for intervention will have passed.

             If this disregard of the NEC for its own rules is allowed to continue, the entire basis of the Labour Leadership Election will be undermined. Will the Election Reform Services be providing scrutiny? If so, a qualifying statement must be sought before it is too late to influence this flagrant and undemocratic disregard for the rights of Labour Party members, affiliate members and supporters.
             http://www.electoralreform.co.uk
10. Tautoko Mangō Mata 10

    13 July 2016 at 3:24 pm

    This sums it up for me:

    Suzanne Bosworth
    ‏@MediaWeasel
    Here’s what’s extraordinary: #LabourNEC thinking that their disgusting behaviour will make them electable if Corbyn isn’t re-elected.
    • dukeofurl 10.1

      13 July 2016 at 4:06 pm

      You are confusing two different things- labour members and the electorate voters.

      As we have seen electorate voters had backed labour under Blair/Brown 3x !

      The last one in 2005 they had 55% of the seats with 35% of the vote, so dont need the small far left group about Corbyn, there being any number of parties with socialist or workers or even ‘respect’ in their name to vote for come election time.
      Socialist Labour Arthur Scargill 20k votes
      Scottish Socialist Colin Fox 43k
      Respect Linda Smith 68k
      Socialist Alternative Peter Taaffe 9k
      Socialist Unity Party – 581 votes.
      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        13 July 2016 at 6:14 pm

        As we have seen electorate voters had backed labour under Blair/Brown 3x !

        Blairite Labour were a bunch of useless pro-war corporate tossers who have contributed to the long term extinction of UK Labour by courting the comfortable middle class and discarding the working class.

        The effects of which is being played out now.
11. swordfish 11

    13 July 2016 at 5:11 pm

    “But the introduction of the six-month cut-off point is likely to infuriate members who have joined in recent weeks with the hope of influencing the vote, and will not now be able to do so without paying an additional £25.”

    Yep, they’ve just effectively “de-selected” 130,000 new members from having a say. Over the last 2 weeks alone, the Party has accepted 4.5 million Pounds in members fees on the promise they could vote.
    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      13 July 2016 at 5:30 pm

      Over the last 2 weeks alone, the Party has accepted 4.5 million Pounds in members fees on the promise they could vote.

      Sounds remarkably like false advertising and could thus be challenged in court. Of course, the court case would be long after the vote.
      • Sanctuary 11.1.1

        13 July 2016 at 8:49 pm

        The Corbynistas will simply need an injunction, not a full court hearing.

        But really, in a democracy this manoeuvering to disenfranchise your own members is beyond disgraceful.

        The PLP is polarising the party with sort of self serving, divisive and and anti democratic behaviour.
    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      13 July 2016 at 6:15 pm

      Yep, they’ve just effectively “de-selected” 130,000 new members from having a say. Over the last 2 weeks alone, the Party has accepted 4.5 million Pounds in members fees on the promise they could vote.

      Time for Corbyn supporters to launch massive High Court action against the UK Labour Party.
      • weka 11.2.1

        13 July 2016 at 6:22 pm

        Yep.

        I think it’s blatantly obvious now that the Blairites are willing to burn the whole house down if they can’t keep it for themselves.
        • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.1

          13 July 2016 at 6:36 pm

          It’s a classic attitude of entitlement from the Labour Party hierarchy. Ordinary members are there to give the party money and to deliver flyers for MPs. They are not supposed to interfere with the better judgement of the hierarchy.
      • Stuart Munro 11.2.2

        13 July 2016 at 10:57 pm

        A street march might do the job as well. Confronting a disenfranchised mob is, as they say, ‘a great learning experience’.
12. swordfish 12

    13 July 2016 at 5:30 pm

    ITV Political Editor Robert Peston:

    “Even by Labour’s recent history of giving shambles a good name, today’s meeting of the ruling NEC takes the biscuit.

    Because at the end of the meeting, after a couple of pro-Corbyn members had left, and Corbyn himself had gone, a vote was taken on a motion not on the agenda, to exclude from the leadership vote anyone who joined the party in the past six months. So the 130,000 who signed up since Brexit, most of whom are thought to be Corbyn supporters, will be unable to vote.

    Now whatever you think of Corbyn, this looks and smells like gerrymandering by his opponents.

    Corbyn will definitely attempt to get the vote over-turned. And he may resort to the law, since Labour’s website made clear that membership bought a vote.”
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      13 July 2016 at 6:19 pm

      That’s the disgusting and undemocratic UK Labour Party for you.

      The entire party needs to be put into the woodchipper and the party re-started from scratch.
13. weka 13

    13 July 2016 at 6:17 pm

    This clarifies the member vs registered supporter thing (kind of),

    But Labour members who have signed up after Tuesday, January 12 will not eligible to vote.

    That means the claimed 100,000 new members the party claims they have attracted since the referendum will be excluded from the process.

    But they may still be able to take part in the vote if they’re willing to stump up a £25 ‘registered supporter’ fee.

    Applications to be a registered supporter will only be open for two days – and it’s currently unclear whether those who became members since January 12 will also be allowed to sign up as registered supporters.

    Details of how to sign up as a registered supporter will be announced on Thursday.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-labour-party-members-barred-8408288
    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      13 July 2016 at 6:27 pm

      If you have money, you can vote – beliefs of the Blairite Labour Party.

      BTW this undemocratic shite will have killed Scottish Labour off for good now. And without Scottish Labour UK Labour is now an historical footnote. They just haven’t stopped breathing and moving yet.
      • Pasupial 13.1.1

        13 July 2016 at 6:37 pm

        £25 is NZ$45.75 at the current exchange rate (1.83). That is a lot of money to come up with in two days for many Labour supporters.
        • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1

          13 July 2016 at 6:53 pm

          Yep. But the ‘right’ kind of Labour supporters will have no trouble.
          • swordfish 13.1.1.1.1

            13 July 2016 at 8:33 pm

            Basically, the NEC (minus the Corbyn supporters who had already left the meeting, unaware of what was about to unfold) has disenfranchised well over 100,000 Party members (more than 60% of whom are reckoned to be Corbyn supporters) while at the same time allowing anyone who can find 25 quid in the next 48 hours a vote.

            I’ll have to look for it, but a few days ago I read of polling that suggested a whole swathe of Blairite and Brownite former Party members were prepared to re-join to vote Corbyn out. It suggested they would probably slightly outnumber Corbynistas among the Supporter Sign-Ups. With this new rule, though, that should turn into more than just a slight advantage.
            • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1.1.1

              13 July 2016 at 9:24 pm

              Bit of a naive novice mistake to leave the meeting before it was adjourned.
              • dukeofurl …

                14 July 2016 at 9:36 am

                Have you just realised that about Corbyn ?
                • Colonial Viper …

                  14 July 2016 at 9:41 am

                  Indeed. Trusting in your party’s own MPs and executive is clearly a dumb move in UK Labour.

                  To paraphrase. The guys who sit across there are our opposition. The people who sit beside us are our enemies.
      • Jenny 13.1.2

        13 July 2016 at 8:48 pm

        South Africa:

        One man, one vote.

        British Labour Party:

        1 Pony, 1 vote.

        https://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=How+much+is+a+monkey+in+money+slang
    • Bill 13.2

      13 July 2016 at 6:49 pm

      Think about it.

      Putting the onerous £25 aside for a moment, what’s being suggested is that members may attract a penalty with regards voting that’s over and above any penalty landed on non-members.

      Members denied a vote can pay £25 to vote as supporters.

      The Blairites know that ‎£25 is a huge financial hurdle. They’ve probably ‘focus grouped’ that cost, done the numbers and calculated that they come out ahead.
      • Colonial Viper 13.2.1

        13 July 2016 at 6:57 pm

        I don’t understand why with this kind of internal attitude, UK Labour struggles in Scotland.
      • weka 13.2.2

        13 July 2016 at 11:38 pm

        “Members denied a vote can pay to vote as supporters.”

        Are you sure? Because the article above was saying it wasn’t clear if they could become registered supporters or whether members under 6 months simply won’t be able to vote.

        Those that haven’t joined yet, can pay the £25, thus ensuring that the only new people can vote and of those only the ones with the dosh.

        The 6 months thing might be standard though. What was the deal with NZLP?
        • Bill 13.2.2.1

          14 July 2016 at 12:07 pm

          Six months isn’t standard. The NEC, or more precisely the General Secretary, acting through the scrutineer (who I don’t think has been appointed yet) can set a ‘freeze’ on eligibility.

          The relevant clauses from the UKLP ‘Rule Book’ and my take on it is in this comment…

          http://thestandard.org.nz/corbyn-is-in/#comment-1202937

          But regardless, when I suggested it be thought through, I meant with regards the logic, or even how to manage a scenario where a member is disqualified from voting, yet an avenue is afforded all non-members.

          Any member debarred from voting would simply rescind their membership and then pay up to get a vote, right? And besides that being almost impossible to police, the financial barrier is likely being considered enough in terms of shoving obstacles in the path of newer members who some would prefer didn’t cast a vote.
          • weka 13.2.2.1.1

            14 July 2016 at 12:17 pm

            I’m guessing the two day thing would prevent people rescinding their membership and signing up anew as a registered supporter, and that that is intentional too. So really it’s only the people who haven’t signed anything yet and who have the cash that will be advantaged.
            • Bill 13.2.2.1.1.1

              14 July 2016 at 12:36 pm

              This is rabbit hole stuff.

              There’s no real advantage to be had in trying to triple whammy newer members. The £25 supporters fee does all the work that needs doing. If newer members want to pay £25 – and most won’t be able to afford that – then fine. And the two day window would make it well nigh impossible to check whether a £25 ‘supporter’ was a fully paid up member if the idea was to exclude newer members no matter what.

              If the supporters fee had been left at around the £3 mark, then it would have necessary to device some scheme to block newer members from just voting as supporters. Raising that fee to £25, effectively does that.
14. Bill 14

    13 July 2016 at 6:59 pm

    Owen Smith to challenge Jeremy Corbyn for Labour leadership

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-challenge-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership
    • swordfish 14.1

      13 July 2016 at 7:50 pm

      Not unexpected.

      The Soft Left faction’s Smith will run to the Left of Eagle (from the Brownite/Centrist faction) and to the Right of Corbyn.
      • Bill 14.1.1

        13 July 2016 at 8:19 pm

        I’d like to think he’d send Eagle into third place on the first round of voting and then step down. Allowed to imagine decency, yes?
        • weka 14.1.1.1

          13 July 2016 at 11:43 pm

          I was going to say dreams are free, but this is the UKLP.
15. emergency mike 15

    13 July 2016 at 8:03 pm

    Supporters will be given two days to pay the £25? What a generous window of opportunity.

    130,000 new members join in order to have their say as advertised, then get told to fuck off.

    Makes it pretty clear who you are dealing with.
16. swordfish 16

    13 July 2016 at 8:24 pm

    Corbyn-supporting Labour activists are suggesting people who want to vote in the Leadership contest join affiliated Unions or the Fabian Society. Much cheaper.
17. Ad 17

    13 July 2016 at 8:38 pm

    I think of Aussie Labor’s narrow loss, Spain’s left that can’t unify, Canada’s version that pantsed itself recently, The French version sliding sideways, NZ Labour just now getting a little juice back, and now the UK’s hot mess … and I am just depressed thinking too hard. None of their reasons are the same, none have the same cure. But the results are just Winter. Discontent. Etc.
    • ropata 17.1

      13 July 2016 at 8:56 pm

      makes you wonder what else is going on, dirty tricks are the RW stock in trade

      1. screw/buy the media narrative with “Dirty Politics” style lies, fire disobedient journos
      2. subvert the vote counting process by convenient ‘errors’ (see: Bush v Gore)
      3. sabotage the opposition with agents of chaos
      4. crush mass movements with militarised police and initimidation of leaders

      i could supply links but it’s fairly obvious really
      • Ad 17.1.1

        13 July 2016 at 9:16 pm

        Lovely to think it was someone else’s fault.
        It is primarily not.

        And even if the left are supposed to play against the stacked deck,
        and only supposed to win just a few times,
        and only do something not everything,

        it’s still Winter.
        • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1

          13 July 2016 at 9:27 pm

          You don’t believe that the caucus conspired and planned a deliberate coup against Corbyn with the help of friendly media?

          Really, Ad, it’s so bleeding obvious and you’re not that naive.
          • Ad 17.1.1.1.1

            14 July 2016 at 5:06 am

            Frankly m’dear I don’t give a damn.
18. ropata 18

    13 July 2016 at 8:39 pm

    There was a good interview on Radio NZ this morning, the English correspondent suggested that UK Labour is heading for another split. The PLP will not give up their seats willingly, they are more likely to form another party (or they will make the Corbyn faction do so). And just like the LibDems before them they will dwindle into well-deserved obscurity & irrelevance.

    NZ Labour has been through this at least twice that I can think of
19. Whateva next? 19

    13 July 2016 at 9:00 pm

    What about “True Labour” for Corbyn, and the other lot can change from New Labour to “Blue Labour”
    • ropata 19.1

      13 July 2016 at 10:07 pm

      or the “People’s Liberation Front of Judea” ?
20. Colonial Viper 20

    13 July 2016 at 9:29 pm

    I wonder if anyone else can see that UK Labour ain’t fit for purpose. All it is now is a political vehicle for entitled middle class careerists.
    • ropata 20.1

      13 July 2016 at 11:26 pm

      This has just been sent out by Labour First. These people want to destroy the Labour Party. They need to be stopped pic.twitter.com/R7OSm4fKtZ— Wirral Momentum (@WirralMomentum) July 12, 2016

      from the PLP email:
      “None of this will be changed if Corbyn is re-elected, however wide the margin. MPs are not going to go crawling back to him saying they made a mistake. They will challenge him again and again as his failings and the un-tenability of his position become more and more apparent, until eventually he is defeated.

      the shameless blairites will go to any lengths to get rid of democracy
21. john 21

    13 July 2016 at 9:41 pm

    Is this the start of “New Labour” in the UK?
    Where Corbyn is the only parliamentary member of the Labour party and the rest form “New Labour”??
    He needs to remember…that he still has to work with the other ELECTED MP’s. Elected by the people of their electorates.
    Maybe mass by elections is the way to go. It would bankrupt the Labour party and their corrupt union affiliates that want to run the Labour party like their own personal puppet show.
    • swordfish 21.1

      13 July 2016 at 10:39 pm

      “He needs to remember…that he still has to work with the other ELECTED MP’s. Elected by the people of their electorates.”

      Elected because they stood for Labour.

      Do you really imagine they would’ve had more than a snowball’s chance in hell if they’d stood purely on their own merits as Independents ?
      • Colonial Viper 21.1.1

        14 July 2016 at 2:28 am

        Basically too many of these MP dickheads have used UK Labour as their own personal political vehicle to win their well paid place in the establishment.

        Many parallels to the NZ situation.
      • john 21.1.2

        14 July 2016 at 9:30 am

        Not all of them because of Labour, just like here, sometimes in spite of.
        • john 21.1.2.1

          14 July 2016 at 1:11 pm

          So 90% of the MP’s selected to run and win seats for Labour are “dickheads” and Corbyn is the ONLY one that sees clearly. REALLY????
          Says very little for the intellect of the Labour party choosing them. Or are you just upset that you disagree with them, from all the way over here in NZ.
          • Colonial Viper 21.1.2.1.1

            14 July 2016 at 3:32 pm

            Now these dickheads – and I use that term for both the male and female backstabbing blairite MPs – have identified themselves, they can be deselected at the electorate level by the general membership. Fuck’m.
      • john 21.1.3

        14 July 2016 at 1:08 pm

        Couple of points:
        Are you saying LABOUR = CORBYN and vice versa? Leaving no room for the rest of the MP’s.
        or are you saying that Labour MP’s in the UK and perhaps elsewhere are absolutely useless and can’t think for themselves and it’s not the JOB of running the country they should be doing but only focusing on what the Labour party head office is telling them to……democracy…..really?
    • Jenny 21.2

      13 July 2016 at 11:35 pm

      “He needs to remember…that he still has to work with the other ELECTED MP’s. Elected by the people of their electorates.”
      john

      This is the exact same reason used by the Right of the Labour Party caucus to get rid of David Cunliffe. And how they got him to resign, with out going to the Labour membership to be decided as it should have.
      • Draco T Bastard 21.2.1

        14 July 2016 at 1:37 am

        Ah, but why did the Labour membership keep the ABCs rather than replacing them for the last election?
        Did they actually have a choice in it?
    • Draco T Bastard 21.3

      14 July 2016 at 1:35 am

      He needs to remember…that he still has to work with the other ELECTED MP’s.

      The other MPs need to remember that they’re there to represent the Labour membership and they’re simply not doing that. Hopefully the membership recall that and remove the scum suckers.
      • john 21.3.1

        14 July 2016 at 1:14 pm

        NO, they are representing the VOTERS….all of the voters of their electorate…and here’s the hard part…they are also supposed to represent the voters who DIDN’T vote for them too.
        • Draco T Bastard 21.3.1.1

          14 July 2016 at 1:24 pm

          Not within the Labour Party itself which is where the leadership conflict is taking place.
          • john 21.3.1.1.1

            14 July 2016 at 2:35 pm

            Exactly…and the reason labour may never see power again in the UK.
            They view this as being all about them (the Labour Party).
            The voters are watching and seeing that the Labour Party only cares about itself, it’s theories and institutions. NOT the people or the country and their worries and needs.
            Which is the purview of a govt….So Conservatives in power by default, as they are the only ones talking about the country, economy etc as a job to do and Labour as a job to have……BIG difference.
            • Draco T Bastard 21.3.1.1.1.1

              14 July 2016 at 3:01 pm

              What a load of bollocks.

              The voters are watching and seeing that the Labour Party only cares about itself, it’s theories and institutions.

              Wrong.
              Yes, the voters are watching – that’s why so many thousands of them are presently joining the Labour Party. They’re doing so because they understand that the UKLabour party is there to look after the country.

              So Conservatives in power by default, as they are the only ones talking about the country, economy etc as a job to do and Labour as a job to have……BIG difference.

              And that’s inventing BULLSHIT to try and make out that the conservatives have a greater moral compass when they don’t. It’s the conservatives, in both parties, that have been screwing over the country to enrich a few. Which is why thousands of people are presently joining UKLabour and not the Tories.
22. Sanctuary 22

    13 July 2016 at 9:43 pm

    next week the Tories will promote a vote on Trident. Corbyn had been indicating he would offer a free vote as a compromise.

    Personally, I would now turn the machinery of government against the Blairite plotters and whip the vote. That would force the hand of the Blairites, if they defied the whip – as they must – then they’ll stand exposed as voting with the Tories. Again.
    • Anne 22.1

      13 July 2016 at 9:57 pm

      … I would now turn the machinery of government against the Blairite plotters and whip the vote. That would force the hand of the Blairites, if they defied the whip – as they must – then they’ll stand exposed as voting with the Tories. Again.

      Strewth yes. That is exactly what Corbyn should do. Play the same dirty game back at them and see how they like it. I know it’s been said a thousand times on this site in recent weeks but hell… what a bunch of venomous, self-serving, entitled bastards and bitches are these Blairites. At least the Tories don’t really pretend to be anything else.
      • RedLogix 22.1.1

        14 July 2016 at 5:29 am

        I know it’s been said a thousand times on this site in recent weeks but hell… what a bunch of venomous, self-serving, entitled bastards and bitches are these Blairites. At least the Tories don’t really pretend to be anything else.

        This this and this. I was going to type out something similar myself, but nothing tops this.

        I’d hope that over the years we’ve conversed you’d know me as a man forgiving of other people’s mistakes. Except when they are pretending they are making them for my own good.
      • Wayne 22.1.2

        14 July 2016 at 8:40 am

        Anne,

        It would be a bit rich for Corbyn to do that. He is the MP who defied the Labour whip more than any other, so he has no real moral mandate to use that strategy.

        Realistically this whole shambles in Labour will result in two parties, one hard left, one centre left. The one that will prosper with voters will be the one that is seen by voters (as opposed to activists) to best represent left interests in British politics.

        This will likely take a couple of years to play out, leaving the Conservatives a good opportunity to bed themselves in as the natural party of government, at least over the next decade.

        I am sure Conservatives strategists, and Theresa May are relishing the opportunity that has been presented. Already her speeches indicate that she will reach across the middle in a much more effective way than Cameron was able to do. His Etonian background, and his personal style made it a bit hard for him to play the role of the “man of the people.” In contrast Theresa May’s background and her personal style is tailor made for her to do so.
        • dukeofurl 22.1.2.1

          14 July 2016 at 9:32 am

          Sir Lynton Crosby couldnt have said it better…. who was that great British statesman who said ..optics my friend its all optics
        • Anne 22.1.2.2

          14 July 2016 at 4:17 pm

          …this whole shambles in Labour will result in two parties, one hard left, one center left.

          Oh eff-off with your hard left crap Wayne. All Jeremy Corbyn is advocating is exactly the same as what successive British, NZ and Australian governments were implementing until along came some fanciful neo liberal political theory which has created a disastrous global scenario and has put the well-being of the planet in fiscal and environmental jeopardy.

          It’s been a monumental failure from the start and the sooner the world returns to a socially and economically acceptable form of egalitarian governance the better. This is essentially what Jeremy Corbyn, Bernie Sanders and other are advocating and they are to be applauded for having the guts to stand up and say so.
        • reason 22.1.2.3

          14 July 2016 at 4:58 pm

          Wayne Mapp is quite cheeky to keep posting here ……………

          I say that as he is a corrupt racist former national party minister ….. and a present day carpetbagger who seems to self nominate himself for crony appointments that judith collins and other bent nats dish out …..

          http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=wayne+mapp%2Bcrony

          Wayne is also a warmonger who is quite prepared to participate in illegal wars where innocent children get burnt, maimed and killed …………. for the sake of “trade deals”

          Wayne is a troll here at the standard but unlike most trolls we know a bit more about him …………

          “So who is PACDAC? The National government hasn’t announced any appointments (in fact, the last publicly announced appointments were in 2007), but the 2015 PADET annual report lists their membership as “Robert Ayson, Natasha Barnes, Nicholas Davidson, Hon. Wayne Mapp, Ross Miller, Paul Sinclair, Maui Solomon and Angela Woodward”.

          Wayne Mapp of course is a former National MP and crony; as National Party defence spokesperson he advocated for New Zealand involvement in the Iraq war (even if it meant ignoring international law), and as Defence Minister he advocated against outlawing the international crime of aggression. Since leaving government, he has continued to advocate for war. With people like these on PACDEC, its no wonder it has been effectively disarmed”

          http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2016/02/disarmed.html
    • Colonial Viper 22.2

      13 July 2016 at 10:09 pm

      I have to say that offering compromise to a lair of disloyal snakes who inevitably view compromise as evidence of weakness, is an ill-advised and poorly thought out move.
23. Bill Drees 23

    13 July 2016 at 11:40 pm

    English Labour MPs are refusing to engage with the membership.

    “Labour has suspended all local party meetings until the high-stakes leadership contest has been completed to curb the levels of abuse faced by MPs, the Huffington Post UK can reveal.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/07/13/labour-suspends-local-party-meetings-after-national-executive-committe-ruling_n_10959162.html
    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      14 July 2016 at 2:32 am

      The local Labour membership need to organise MP office sit-ins, pickets and protests to force their Parliamentary Representatives (oh the irony) to listen to them.

      It should be clear to one and all now that the UK Labour Party has been hijacked by a few score well paid MP careerists who don’t care how undemocratically they look or act, as long as they get their own way.

      Labour as an international political franchise is over.
24. swordfish 24

    14 July 2016 at 2:38 am

    Wonder if the latest Ipsos Mori will aid Corbyn ?

    Headline voting intention
    (voting intention after those not certain to vote are excluded. So an accurate gauge of those most likely to vote only)
    Tory 36%
    Labour 35%
    Lib Dem 11%
    Ukip 8%

    Overall voting intention
    (all respondents voting intentions – regardless of whether or not they’re likely to turn out to vote at the next General Election. This is an accurate gauge of how eligible British voters as a whole feel. As you can see, weighting for turnout always favours the Tories over Labour)
    Tory 33%
    Labour 38%
    Lib Dem 10%
    Ukip 8%

    Given the circumstances, this is a very good poll for Labour.
    • Colonial Viper 24.1

      14 July 2016 at 2:53 am

      By taking a strong left wing stand, Corbyn is pulling more voters towards Labour. Who wudda thunk it. It is contrary to all the right wing advice to swerve right in order to be “electable.”
      • Bill Drees 24.1.1

        14 July 2016 at 12:48 pm

        There are many in NZ Labour who believe the membership is not good enough for the Parliamentary Labour Party with which we are blessed.

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