Corrections minister in trouble

Written By: - Date published: 3:39 pm, July 22nd, 2015 - 67 comments
Categories: accountability, prisons - Tags: , , , ,

Update: Kelvin Davis’s question in Parliamentary Questions today.

67 comments on “Corrections minister in trouble ”

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  1. wyndham 1
    22 July 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Lotu-liga has never been other than a lightweight and is completely out of his depth on this issue. Doubtless the Nats will close ranks and bullshit their way out of it. Talking of bullshit, what has happened to the Arabian Sheep farm ? Have they got away with that too?

    QT today, Key appeared unusually tetchy and his jolly joker persona gave way to sourpuss. He looks like Hawaii didn’t do much good.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      22 July 2015 at 4:33 pm

      Everything that I’ve seen indicates that Lotu-Liga is out of his depth on pretty much everything. He comes across as the stereo-typical conservative ignoramus that the Dunning-Kruger Effect describes perfectly.

      • Clemgeopin 1.1.1
        22 July 2015 at 4:53 pm

        Thanks for that link, Draco. Good to know. Very interesting.

        “The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks that are easy for them are also easy for others.[1]

        David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in the unskilled, and external misperception in the skilled: “The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.”[1]”

        The rest of the article, including the results of tests/research is also interesting to read and learn from. Cheers!

      • adam 1.1.2
        22 July 2015 at 4:54 pm

        You just described half of the front bench of this current Tory government. Actually maybe more than half – the way they flapping it around when ever a camera is present.

      • McFlock 1.1.3
        22 July 2015 at 5:04 pm

        There’s also the other type of incomeptent person I’ve met: the person who is in over their head, knows they’re in over their head, but also knows that if they shut up and stick to the basics while looking confident, they’ll probably be promoted or shifted sideways before they get put under any pressure.

        But then sometimes they do actually have to do their job (like read letters that refer to deaths in custody and recognise that it needs follow-up) and the shit hits the fan.

      • Brendan 1.1.4
        22 July 2015 at 6:06 pm

        I think Don “trump card” Trump suffers from this too.

  2. Akldnut 2
    22 July 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Peseta Sam Lotu-“LIAR”
    Standard fare for this bunch.

  3. infused 3
    22 July 2015 at 4:09 pm

    So on talk back today, apparently you can’t ‘drop’ anyone. There’s meshing everywhere.

    • dukeofurl 3.1
      22 July 2015 at 4:22 pm

      If theres a way around that, the prisoners would find it.

    • Pascals bookie 3.2
      22 July 2015 at 4:27 pm

      “on talkback” eh.

      Is this gonna be like that time you heard on the internet that there was gonna be a big war break out with North Korea and Iran and all sorts of shit was def. about to happen?

      • infused 3.2.1
        22 July 2015 at 4:36 pm

        Hey. We were very close. You have a good memory thought I must say.

        • Pascals bookie 3.2.1.1
          22 July 2015 at 6:25 pm

          Fair enough, I’ll stop hassling you about it now.

          But don’t you think it likely, if talkback is correct about this, that Serco would be saying it too?

          They could have put it in their press release instead of the silly argument they made that it can’t be happening all the time or there’d be prisoners off to hospital all the time.

          So I reckon, if it was true that droppings aren’t possible ‘coz meshing’ they’d have said that. They didn’t say that, so I’m guessing talkback is talking shit.

      • infused 3.3.1
        22 July 2015 at 4:39 pm

        Well there should be some evidence to all this then. I can’t see how people would be dropped in a central area like that. Surely there would be guards there. If not, it should be on camera.

        • McFlock 3.3.1.1
          22 July 2015 at 4:45 pm

          Oh, there’re not really a claim that the guards aren’t there or don’t know about it, as far as I can recall.

          The gist of the claims is that the prisoners rule the roost and resulting injuries are kept out of the paperwork.

        • weizguy 3.3.1.2
          22 July 2015 at 4:55 pm

          When your business plan involves cutting costs by cutting staff, there doesn’t tend to be anyone around to see.

        • Huginn 3.3.1.3
          22 July 2015 at 11:25 pm

          Indeed.
          It should be on camera.

    • North 3.4
      22 July 2015 at 5:37 pm

      “There’s meshing everywhere……” – short for – “My name’s Infused and I am Confused oh hang on have I got that the wrong way round ? oh ne’er mind fuck you all whatever you say I’m not gonna address the issues and I’m not gonna listen to anything directed to the issues because I just don’t wanna know but I’ll wank on interminably doing what I’ve just described SO THERE !”

      My God you’re a fuckwit whatever your name is ! As your fatuousness seen above and below evidences so vividly.

    • Anno1701 3.5
      23 July 2015 at 12:27 pm

      “So on talk back today, apparently you can’t ‘drop’ anyone. There’s meshing everywhere”

      I can tell you first hand that this isnt the case in at least one mens prison

      unless it has been added in the last 3 years

  4. NZJester 4
    22 July 2015 at 4:10 pm

    You would think also with all this known dropping happening from the balcony that they would have erected something to prevent it from happening again like tall fencing and or catchment nets. Security cameras and gates on stairways to prevent prisoners from pushing anyone down stairs if the balconies get preventative measures installed would also be a good idea.

    • McFlock 4.1
      22 July 2015 at 4:20 pm

      testament to government operations in the past that they have apparently not been needed.

    • infused 4.2
      22 July 2015 at 4:25 pm

      Well apparently there are.

    • Rodel 4.3
      23 July 2015 at 12:45 am

      Suzie Ferguson? asked the $erco CEO on radio about mesh. He said there wasn’t mesh. She asked if he was going to put it in. He replied that they, $erco just worked with the prison structure as it was when they took over. Easy to detect that he was saying…’no he wouldn’t put in safety mesh because it would involve spending money.’
      Suzie elicited this implication out of him quite skilfully and showed the true nature of his business..I thought he was going to say that the government should put in safety mesh.Wouldn’t surprise me if that happens.
      Ah well..business is business!

  5. Tiger Mountain 5
    22 July 2015 at 4:19 pm

    if dear leader had been genuine about “higher standards for ministers in my government” he would have few left by now, this shocker should see Lotu-liga relieved of his ministerial warrant, but probably won’t

    incarceration is the strongest sanction the state can make against a citizen barring capital punishment so it was always way too important to entrust prisons to the likes of “baked beans on paper plates” serco

    • North 5.1
      22 July 2015 at 6:02 pm

      Course it won’t……for now. Peseta Sam was The Ponce Key’s fiapalgi ‘bait’ in ‘The-Great-Push-for-Polynesian-South-Auckland’ nonsense of the last election campaign.

      And all poor Sam could do was stand behind him, along with that Ngaro character, looking shame-faced. Because he knows that many, many, many, many Polynesians rate him as nought more than a fiapalagi arse licker. Those many include members of his own aiga, for years me and them, them and me, personally and closely engaged.

      Peseta Sam……..the guy who said on nationwide television that a $130,000 cash deposit was a reasonably capturable savings goal for ordinary people to buy a house. What ??????

  6. Clemgeopin 6
    22 July 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Kelvin Davies with fresh allegations against corrections minister, Sam Lotu-Iiga today:
    http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/38422

    • Ovid 7.1
      22 July 2015 at 6:04 pm

      Bloody hell, that was a mauling. I can’t imagine him accepting any interviews for a while.

      • Skinny 7.1.1
        22 July 2015 at 6:32 pm

        Sammy is one slippery character and deeply involved in dirty politics allegations, it’s very nice to see the slippery prick caught in the head lights like a stunned possum. I think poor old Sammy will be sent to the snake oil department for some media training. From what I saw just before on the TV news Gower got a soft road kill, couldn’t have happened to a more deserving rodent 🙂

      • Sacha 7.1.2
        22 July 2015 at 6:35 pm

        And yes, the Minister, Corrections and Serco are all refusing interviews now. Reckon the PM’s office intervened to shut the Minister down at least.

        • Skinny 7.1.2.1
          22 July 2015 at 7:56 pm

          Will Collins force a slam dunk on Sammy and return to the front bench as Corrections Minister again. The return of Crusher Collins to the role is Snake Oil Joyce’s worst nightmare.

          “It’s big time wrestling with Crusher ready to wrap her thighs around Snake Oil’s bald head and enforcing his future leadership with the death rattle.”

          • Clemgeopin 7.1.2.1.1
            22 July 2015 at 9:50 pm

            Oh dear! The Mademoiselle will need to proceed with a bit of caution as that said bald head may suddenly implode because, in my observation, it seems to be filled with quite a lot of horseshit inside and not really with as much of real worthy substance as the owner of the said bald head often pretentiously projects to our pathetic press and the peoples parliament.

    • maui 7.2
      22 July 2015 at 10:08 pm

      Geez severe alright, refreshingly so. But inevitable if for a full ten minutes you say you know nothing, were told nothing and can’t tell anyone anything. If the Minister, effectively the King of all prisons doesn’t know what happened then who the hell does.

  8. Shona 8
    22 July 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Good to hear Plunkett giving a government minister the heavy treatment. Now if he would just do it more often to Key and English and Parata and Bennett etc etc.

    • North 8.1
      22 July 2015 at 8:53 pm

      Unfortunately we’ve been led by the MSM to swallow an horrific fiction where The Ponce Key is somehow above it all……I cite the way in which they’ll harshly lash individual members of this government then call in The Ponce Key to express how “disappointed” he would be IF whatever it’s all about is true. The ‘expert’ (no responsibility for any of it) ‘appraisal’. Somehow Espiner on Radio NZ is a once-in-a-while exception to this. Recall “Is it OK Prime Minister……?”

      While in hard cold fact The Ponce Key (backed by an equally bloodless inner-cabal, Joyce et al) is and always has been the puppeteer.

      Peseta Sam is today’s hapless victim of the phenomenon, poor fiapalagi bastard. Beat up the expendable ‘made-man’, never the ‘don’.

  9. rational thinker 9
    22 July 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Could someone please explain how a company can provide the same service as the government in prisons and still make a profit?? Either the prisons were being mismanaged or there has to be a lesser service provided to make a profit. seems like common sense really

  10. Roycartland 10
    22 July 2015 at 7:31 pm

    The profit incentive makes favourable REPORTING the goal, not a favourable service. Same with charter schools – the test score becomes the goal, not education. The door to corruption is left open much too wide.

  11. North 11
    22 July 2015 at 8:27 pm

    Roycart’…….insightful comment there. Not thought about it that way previously. Excellent ! Guess Serco finds its styles in the styles of The Ponce Key – “I’m gonna ponce New Zealand !”. How fucking fabulous is that ???

  12. b waghorn 12
    22 July 2015 at 8:36 pm

    Hoskings climbed into dodgy Sam and made quite an issue over the fact that the nats on the select committee voted down the opportunity to question serco officials. Which shows how in the shit snake oil Sam must be in, if even hoskings hooks into him.

    • dv 12.1
      22 July 2015 at 8:38 pm

      Sam had to be pushed to say it was the nats majority that voted it down!!!
      Duh

      • b waghorn 12.1.1
        22 July 2015 at 8:42 pm

        He sure did that’s twice he’s had an admission forced out of him in one day ,I can only imagine how many other things he’s hiding.

        • dv 12.1.1.1
          22 July 2015 at 8:50 pm

          Hardly a secret that there are a majority of bats opps Nats on the committee.
          I ‘liked’ the way he tried to avoid the direct question by saying there are a number of different parties on the committee!!!!

          Sort of really weird.

          • b waghorn 12.1.1.1.1
            22 July 2015 at 8:56 pm

            I’ve always viewed his public communication style as being modelled very much on keys so of course telling the truth even on obvious things is next to impossible.

  13. Pascals bookie 13
    22 July 2015 at 8:55 pm

    Shitload of things in this piece that will need to be followed up.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/70434261/Corrections-Minister-Sam-Lotu-Iiga-confirms-police-were-not-called-in-to-investigate-inmate-death?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Numerous claims made of various pieces of advice and instructions given.

    • mickysavage 13.1
      22 July 2015 at 9:07 pm

      Yep this is third world stuff.

    • Nordy 13.2
      22 July 2015 at 9:26 pm

      From the Stuff article –

      “Key said Davis was making serious allegations about Prisoner Evans and he had a moral obligation to go to the police.”

      So it’s not ‘his’ government’s responsibility to actually do anything?

      Being a Minister, being in Government, apparently brings with it no accountability for the actions or inactions of government agencies or contractors.

      As anyone who has held a position of responsibility, knows:

      “You can delegate responsibility, but you can’t delegate accountability to anyone. If someone gives you a job to do, you can get someone else to do it, but you are still accountable to produce the results. If the job isn’t done right the only person to blame is you, because even though you’ve delegated the responsibility, you are still accountable.”

      It’s a damning indictment of this government that they don’t know the basics of management, responsibility and accountability.

  14. Michael who failed Civics 14
    22 July 2015 at 8:58 pm

    The phrase “lying politician” is tautologous. Of course Lout-lita might not have been lying, as this action requires intent, which he may well be too stupid to generate.

  15. TC 15
    22 July 2015 at 9:25 pm

    There’s CCTV in all those wings so it will be pretty easy to tell if he was dropped off a balcony or not.

  16. G C 16
    22 July 2015 at 11:21 pm

    The truth is we have people on Wall-Street trading shears based on how many people are incarcerated. These are of course American prisons and companies.

    When America privatised its prisons they soon learnt 4 things:

    1. The private contractors would save money by having the minimum possible staffing levels and understaffing become acceptable.

    2. Rehabilitation of prisoners was bad for business, even if the government offered generous financial incentives. Repeat offenders became their bread and butter.

    3. Lobby groups were funded by the private contractors. Such groups lobbied government to increase minimum sentences and reduce paroles.

    4. Shear holders profited and a ‘prison industrial complex’ was born. Now America has more people incarcerated per-head-of-population than any country on earth.

    New Zealand just wonders after this Beast…

    • Rodel 16.1
      23 July 2015 at 12:55 am

      GC
      Also in the US, Private prison management soon learnt that bad reports by prison staff meant that prisoners would be denied early parole and keep the inmate inside for longer. = more money.

  17. North 17
    23 July 2015 at 6:51 am

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/25/pennsylvania-prison-builder-kids-for-cash-sentenced

    Private prisons……..part of The Ponce Key’s “Brighter Future” ?

    As regards New Zealand rightly note the absence of judicial corruption, but the principle, the motivation, the using of the weak and poor as raw material for private gain……yeah.

  18. Les 18
    23 July 2015 at 10:03 am

    Paul Henry actually sliced and diced Sam L this morning.

    • Clemgeopin 18.1
      23 July 2015 at 10:22 am

      Yes, but did you notice the endearment/empathy he was displaying towards ‘Sam’?

      • Les 18.1.1
        23 July 2015 at 10:34 am

        Can’t say I did and I’m no fan of Henry.Davis needs to sharpen up and prepare better.He should be able to anticipate the line of questioning.

  19. Clemgeopin 19
    23 July 2015 at 10:09 am

    Corrections Minister keeps giving stupid excuses and is still trying to pass the buck, showing his shocking incompetence. Watch the often loving way Paul Henry deals with Sam compared to his continuous rudeness towards Kelvin. Paul Henry, just another quite biased unbalanced RW ‘journalist’.

    Henry-Davies
    http://www.3news.co.nz/TVShows/PaulHenry
    —————–
    Henry-Sam
    http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/paulhenry/corrections-minister-to-ask-serco-serious-questions-2015072307#axzz3ges1QjCQ

  20. AmaKiwi 20
    23 July 2015 at 11:02 am

    Children know what the word “liar” means and know when to use it.

    Why doesn’t the NZ main stream media?

  21. s y d 21
    23 July 2015 at 12:01 pm

    I can’t be bothered rading through this, but a quick google search turned up this document. It does have ‘commercial in confidence’ along the top but is freely available on line?

    Balls Up – might be worth checking to see what penalties apply for a prisoner being killed on site?

    https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDAQFjADahUKEwjC4ufo-O_GAhXGGpQKHT5IB-c&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corrections.govt.nz%2F__data%2Fassets%2Fpdf_file%2F0010%2F674380%2FCMOP.pdf&ei=NS6wVYL0Jsa10AS-kJ24Dg&usg=AFQjCNFU1iXPl_I1ZTRutJFUSy5Qpl7apg&bvm=bv.98476267,d.dGo&cad=rja

    • s y d 21.1
      23 July 2015 at 12:09 pm

      Oh hang on, $150k for a death, so better ship them out to a govt run prison eh.
      refer schedule 3.3

  22. reason 22
    23 July 2015 at 5:47 pm

    If National properly regulated the Alcohol drug industry we would be closing prisons:

    • 31% of all crime in New Zealand can be attributable to alcohol (2007-08).[12]

    • At least one third of recorded violence offences committed in 2007-2008 occurred where the offender had consumed alcohol prior to committing the offence.[13]

    • Alcohol-related crime is estimated to cost New Zealand NZ$716.5m a year with NZ$200.1m alone spend on policing.[14]

    • On average, 33% of all recorded offences are committed on Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday mornings. However, when the number of offences where it is not known if an offender was affected by alcohol is accounted for, the overall most probable percentage is expected to be 46% of all offences.[15]

    • Approximately half (49.5%) of all homicides recorded between 1999-2008 involved either a suspect or victim being under the influence of alcohol at the time of the incident. 207 (42.3%) involved at least one suspect and 175 (36%) involved at least one victim under the influence of alcohol at the time of incident.[16]

    • In 2005-06, net healthcare costs related to alcohol use only was $343m. The largest component of this number was inpatient hospital costs of $121.0 million, or around a third.[17] .

    • BERL estimated the social costs of the harmful use of alcohol in 2005-2006 (expressed in 2008 dollar terms) to be $5.3 billion, of which 76 per cent ($3.7 billion) were tangible costs.[18]”

    ….. and when it comes to safer drugs like Cannabis or MDMA instead of using science or evidence our creep of a prime minister promoted ‘experts’ like mike sabin who have been good at filling prisons in the past.

    It’s a simple fact that if Alcohol and other drug were regulated correctly we would be slashing prisoner numbers.

    The new private prison would be empty ……

    It should also be noted that Judith Collins played her part in subverting the Alcohol law review when it took place, and after repeated meetings with liquor industry reps she agreed that self regulation of Roastbuster RTDs alcohol content was the type of regulations she liked the best ………….

    She and others in the Government are responsible for keeping rates of serious crime up.

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