Crims gangs and extremists

Written By: - Date published: 9:25 am, August 29th, 2019 - 24 comments
Categories: Amy Adams, Christchurch Attack, national, same old national, Simon Bridges, todd muller, uncategorized - Tags:

I almost feel sorry for National, almost.

When Labour’s or the Green’s base complain they ask questions about what are the left’s elected representatives doing about climate change, or inequality or child poverty?  And are they creating an inclusive tolerant society where everyone gets on and we just enjoy our diversity as well as everything we have in common.

We have a very clear view about how the world should be and ask questions if our elected representatives not getting us closer to that nirvana.

Right wing politicians are under similar pressure but from different quarters.  Like Dairy Farmers who want to maintain the current size of their herds 20 years in the future because it is good for business even though it is bad for the planet.

Or the New Zealand gun lobby who is that insensitive that despite the Christchurch massacre it insists on unfettered rights to bear arms, the sort that can kill a number of people in a very short time, even though this right in other countries has been directly implicated in things like mass shooting of school kids time and time and time again.

I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives.  It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking.

How times have changed.

Now all I see is Simon Bridges saying stuff that is designed to shore up a deeply compromised base, rather than reach out to the middle ground in the way that made John Key so successful.

The latest example is National deciding that it is unlikely to support round two of the Government’s proposed changes to the gun laws.  And why?  Judging by this stand up interview where he repeated the phrase no less than nine times, crims, gangs and extremists.

Bridges has however attracted the wrath of one of the organisations normally very pro National, the Police.

From Collette Devlin at Stuff:

The New Zealand Police Association has called for political unity over gun reforms, urging MPs not to turn it into a US-style debate.

It comes as the National Party revealed it was unlikely to support next month’s second tranche of firearms legislation after a draft of the Bill was leaked.

The party claims the law leak reveals life would be harder for gun clubs; penalties would increase from $1000 to $10,000; that there were no genuine details about the proposed gun register; give police the power to judge what constitutes hate speech or extremism and force medical practitioners to notify police about concerns over the mental or physical condition of a firearms owner.

The gun club requirement seems perfectly reasonable. The particular gun club that the Christchurch shooter practised at has been described as the perfect breeding ground for mass shooting.

The guns register provision is also not unusual. This sort of thing would normally be fleshed through regulations like these so an early draft bill not having the detail is not surprising.

The requirement that Doctors report to the authorities seriously mentally ill clients with access to guns has attracted some opposition.

But the proposal is not a new idea.  Back in the 1990s the Thorp report recommended to the Government that the law be changed to permit “voluntary disclosure by health professionals, generally along the lines of the model legislation recently approved by the [Australasian Police Ministers’ Council], but in addition requiring that any opinion so disclosed be formed “on reasonable grounds”.”

Putting to one side privacy issues stopping people with significant mental health problems from having access to firearms seems like a pretty good idea to me.

There have been other contributions.

https://twitter.com/amyadamsMP/status/1166617750166544389

If the Police are saying that there should be no more mass shootings then I for one am very happy to do what they say.

The only place these gun centred heated culture war debates happen is in America.  Even in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre there was overwhelming consensus that guns capable of mass murder should be banned.

But National obviously thinks there is political mileage to be made here.  By shoring up support amongst a small group that has fairly extreme views about gun rights.

Maybe Bridges is playing four dimensional chess with us all and there is a stunning strategy that will make him popular.  But I can’t see it. 

All I can see is National surrendering the middle ground to the Government on this issue while at the same time decreasing public faith in political institutions.  Maybe it thinks this will result in a net gain for it.

I hope not.

24 comments on “Crims gangs and extremists ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Matiri 1
    29 August 2019 at 9:33 am

    I think you mean Christchurch mosque shooting not Christchurch earthquake.

    [Right you are now corrected – MS]

  2. Anne 2
    29 August 2019 at 9:38 am

    @ micky

    In the fourth paragraph, do you not mean the Christchurch massacre?

    [Right you are now corrected – MS]

  3. Dukeofurl 3
    29 August 2019 at 9:57 am

    The supply of 'guns to crims' has always been via legal owners.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11245846

    An unemployed Auckland man spent $50,000 on firearms then sold them to gang members and other criminals.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10546816

    One of the guns among Hot Water Beach collector John Mabey's missing pistols, submachine guns and semi-automatic rifles has been identified as the weapon used in a fatal shooting.

    Time and time again in fatal shootings , those with guns that werent legal under the old laws obtained them through legal owners

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/336738/whangarei-shooting-man-charged-with-supplying-guns

    • Lucy 3.1
      29 August 2019 at 10:33 am

      for which he was sentenced to 21 months for selling restricted guns – he should have been charged with being an accessory to murder!

  4. mauī 4
    29 August 2019 at 10:36 am

    This seems incredibly fucked up, even for National. Unless you think everyone has a permanent right to bear arms I cannot think of why you wouldn't want doctors to pass on medical information re fitness to have firearms.

    One would also think that if you're grown up enough to get help from a doctor for mental health issues, that you would also be prepared for the possibility of losing some of your gun rights.

    National merely treats mental health like a game. Even for their base, like rural farmers who are highly susceptible to mental illness they don't seem to give a stuff.

  5. Peter Christchurch NZ 5
    29 August 2019 at 10:46 am

    Well I guess National (or Bridges at least) just handed the 2020 election victory to Labour.

    Totally tone deaf and out of touch with what the majority view in NZ is. Unbelievable.

  6. WeTheBleeple 6
    29 August 2019 at 11:09 am

    Unfortunately (some of) the people who are angry about their gun rights are also largely racist, sexist and homophobic. I know this for a fact as I am related to some and regularly monitor their and their friends social media to remind myself why some family are not worth knowing – and to dob them if they look to be getting organised. It takes a village to protect a village. Doctors should be allowed to talk to coppers if it will save lives (including the lives of the disturbed).

    National like to sow hate and discord. They and their followers have a sickness of the soul.

  7. michelle 7
    29 August 2019 at 11:22 am

    We the Bleeple national don't have soul

  8. greywarshark 8
    29 August 2019 at 1:36 pm

    This from Gordon Campbell at Scoop about Fischer Deputy PM in Oz. He has just died but is remembered for his principled, brave and determined stand against the gun lobby there. They had the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, and we have had the Christchurch massacre. Tim Fischer was one Australian politician I can really admire. And he was a leader of the Oz National Party. Surely the NZ National Party hasn't sunk so low in integrity that it is below that of the Australian one?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1908/S00151/gordon-campbell-on-nationals-cheap-politics-on-gun-reform.htm

  9. Wensleydale 9
    29 August 2019 at 1:55 pm

    It's hard to see how this is a plus for National. I mean, I know they're desperately flailing around for something, anything to make them relevant before the coming election, but hitching your wagon to a pack of unhinged gun-fetishists seems a misstep in an ongoing series of missteps.

    Which is nice because they're a pack of dishonest, self-serving parasites and I hope they lose.

    • Peter Christchurch NZ 9.1
      29 August 2019 at 1:58 pm

      Well put Wensleydale. Total agreement with you. They are toast now.

      • Dukeofurl 9.1.1
        29 August 2019 at 5:12 pm

        Bridges likes to forget the time he was a prosecutor, all those murders using rifles didnt come from nowhere – once they had 'legal owners'

  10. greywarshark 10
    29 August 2019 at 2:21 pm

    Honey is sweet eh. Not connected with crims which leave a sour taste. But criminality and unprincipled behaviour encouraged by National's attitudes will spread further in NZ and our chances of building a resilient future are at risk from the self-centred, unco-operative competitive attitudes encouraged in our neolib economy.

    A family bee company in the Far North has had all its hives smashed and lost 2,500,000 bees as a result. Will they have to guard their business? Limiting gun holdings, and issuing licences that covers gun dealing will be very necessary as time gets tougher. There are aggressive determined men with a sense of entitlement and hostility out there in rural land. There also needs to be assistance for people to build their own living, and mentoring, so as to reduce the resentment that fosters the anger that leads to such acts as destruction of another's business.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12262529

    Family reeling after 50 beehives destroyed in deliberate attack/i
    Between 40,000 and 60,000 bees are in each hive at this time of year, so a total of about 2,500,000 have been lost.

    Beehive thefts were fairly common at the start of the season but last week's vandalism was different and likely related to competition for beehive sites in the so-called ''honey wars''.

    ''This wasn't the normal carry-on. This was someone trying to take down a small family business. It's despicable and disgusting. Everyone knows we're not a Comvita, we're not a big corporate. We put our blood, sweat and our tears into our hives,'' Morrogh said.

    Insurance would cover some of the damage but not lost production, which would be significant if they couldn't replace the hives quickly.

  11. observer 11
    29 August 2019 at 3:41 pm

    I love the way Bridges keeps saying "crims". Somebody in his office has whispered in his ear "Simon, it's what the cool 65 year old kids on talkback say. The housewives love it!"

    Young Nats dinner and dance, ladies a plate.

  12. Ken 12
    29 August 2019 at 6:11 pm

    Looks like National have crawled back into bed with the NRA after taking a break because of the Christchurch massacre.

    I would not be at all surprised if Soimun was desperate enough to do a Pauline Hanson.

    I would be more surprised if he wasn't.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYyX7O02yOg&t=24s

  13. Wal 13
    29 August 2019 at 6:47 pm

    Wow seems like a lot of unfounded anger towards licenced firearms owners and not a lot of angry rhetoric back. It would appear they are remarkably reasonable. This is an absolute non issue. Prior to Chch firearm crime was unheard of. NZ is still safe we just have a meth and property crime habit. Simon is right this legislation it penalises licence holders worse than criminals for the same offence. Police ineptitude needs to be addressed and the recommendations of the Thorpe report revisited. The Stone Age didn’t end because they ran out of stones and the potential for violent massacre doesn’t change once the guns are gone. Look at Japan. I for one appreciate National is challenging the socialist want to malign and blame, kind of like the national socialists once did and no one likes them.

    • Incognito 13.1
      29 August 2019 at 7:24 pm

      Prior to Chch firearm crime was unheard of.

      I don’t think that’s correct. In any case, if violence involving firearms is a multi-factorial problem why would you not advocate a multipronged approach in dealing with it? Why would the last (?) step towards a solution be restricting ownership (and use!) of certain types of weapons?

      According to Stuff's data, there have been 105 gun-related homicides, excluding police shootings and hunting deaths, which resulted in the deaths of 167 people – 124 men and 43 women – in the past 15 years. These figures include the March 15 terror attack, counted as a single homicide event.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112559564/the-homicide-report-gives-a-detailed-account-of-gun-violence-in-new-zealand

    • observer 13.2
      29 August 2019 at 7:25 pm

      @Wal

      Leaving aside your very silly last sentence, can you explain …

      1) Why is it wrong to have more data about firearms in NZ?

      2) If you want to "revisit" the Thorpe report, which of the recommendations would you now support – and why were they not adopted sooner?

      And on the politics of it …

      3) Do you seriously believe Simon Bridges gives a toss about anything except finding an "issue" to save his job?

  14. Dukeofurl 14
    29 August 2019 at 7:49 pm

    Wal seems to forget the Aramoana massacre , sprre crime using guns.

    This reference lists the GUNS he used

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramoana_massacre

    3 semi automatics and 13 victims
    Gray wasn’t what Bridges would call a Crim ..until he started killing people

  15. weston 15
    29 August 2019 at 8:57 pm

    National seems to effortlessly get people excited !!Lol its just more smoke an mirrors for heavens sake they'll vote for this bill they just want people to THINK they opposed it like they are standing up for the rights of the "common man "or something .When the time comes itll be with great regret etc an grave misgivings but eotd done deal .This imo is no different to the beginning of the weeks trumpeting about how they are gonna make a bonfire of labours new regs an going forward assuming they win throw out two old regs for every new one introduced ! do people honestly think they'll do that ?come on they're torries not anarchists .If they ended up throwing out half a doz id be surprised .Dog whistling and staying in the headlines is the name of the game .

  16. peterlepaysan 16
    29 August 2019 at 9:02 pm

    Has anyone in NZ ever justified why it is necessary for them to own a semi automatic firearm? What could it be used for that my single shot bolt action rifle or my single barrel shotgun could not be used for?

    The only people who could possibly justify having such weaponry are the military, (that is another topic altogether).

    The Greywarshark reference above to Gordon Campbell's post is well worth reading.

    Bridges cannot keep up with right wing oz politicians. Zeesh the Natz are more Neanderthal than I thought.

  17. WILD KATIPO 17
    30 August 2019 at 7:15 am

    '' I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives. It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking''…

    I'm sorry.

    I never admired his Crosby /Textor abilitys.

  18. WILD KATIPO 18
    30 August 2019 at 7:22 am

    '' I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives. It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking''…

    I'm sorry.

    I never once admired his Crosby /Textor ability's to pervert our media and the populaces jaundiced, one sided view which they ( National ) created and nurtured..

    I never admired him , nor his political party's sleazy Dirty Politics. Matter of fact, I admire them even less today, even though they were, at that time, one of the most corrupt political party's in this modern era.

    National ,… under either Key , English or Bridges are dangerous. Not just to democracy , but to ( now ) millions of fellow New Zealanders. There is nothing good in them.

    All they are, is a treacherous, sell out party for overseas / foreign advantage. Thus they are quite treasonous in approach. Why , therefore, should we even consider them as fit for leadership?

    They are / and always will be … simply sleaze.

    And there is nothing to admire in that.

  19. Henry Filth 19
    1 September 2019 at 2:25 pm

    Money talks – political parties listen.

    Whose money is talking about guns?