Cross the floor

29 comments on “Cross the floor ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Sable 1

   21 August 2013 at 8:46 am

   Pig’s don’t willingly remove their noses from the trough…..
2. Mary 2

   21 August 2013 at 9:37 am

   Most of the MPs there have got way more reasons to vote for the government than cross the floor.
3. phillip ure 3

   21 August 2013 at 9:40 am

   hilarious..!.they have jamie lee-ross on there..!..(talk about unbridled-optimism..!..)

   ..ross is perhaps the most gimlet-eyed of the far-right younger fogies in national..

   ..and would ‘walk’ on orphans – to cross the road..

   ..the waitemata would freeze over – before ross did any ‘cross-house-walking’..

   ..hautiti is a different matter..

   ..and if this ‘former-progressive’ votes for a surveillance-state..

   ..she might well get the gong as the-fastest sell-out ever..

   ..in her case..it will be a turn-around time of barely weeks..

   ..phillip ure..
4. Rich 4

   21 August 2013 at 10:19 am

   It’s not gonna happen:
   – if they had a conscience they wouldn’t be in the National party
   – they’re all far too keen on their careers and potential limos
   – the NSA and its satellites have a budget comparable with NZ’s GDP. You think they can’t buy a few NZ MPs and make sure they stay bought? Like Dunne admitted, willing buyer, willing seller.
   • Colonial Viper 4.1

     21 August 2013 at 10:26 am

     the NSA and its satellites have a budget comparable with NZ’s GDP.

     Officially, the US Intelligence budget (of which the NSA is a part) is approx US$60B to US$70B. That’s similar to the entire annual NZ Government budget, but it is smaller than the NZ GDP.
     • Rich 4.1.1

       21 August 2013 at 1:08 pm

       I used the word comparable, as in the same order of magnitude.
       • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

         21 August 2013 at 1:16 pm

         Right. I normally take “comparable” as being within one multiple, not ten multiples. $100 and $200 are comparable, but not $200 and $2000. Just a difference of opinion then.
   • shorts 4.2

     21 August 2013 at 10:36 am

     All it would take is a backroom deal with one Nat MP (Williamson for example) from Labour to offer a nice offshore position if/when they get into power…. instant legend status and a nice post to boot – exactly the sort of motivation a Nat would fall for I reckon

     outdunne them in other words
     • felix 4.2.1

       21 August 2013 at 11:29 am

       ^^ THIS

       And yep, Maurice (for example) has shown he’s keen to cement his maverick status and liberal credentials.
   • weka 4.3

     21 August 2013 at 11:01 am

     ” – if they had a conscience they wouldn’t be in the National party”

     Do you know who Marilyn Waring is, and what she did? I have no idea if there is someone of Waring’s calibre in the current NACT line up (I doubt it), but not all conservative MPs are completely devoid of conscience.
     • Mary 4.3.1

       21 August 2013 at 11:25 am

       Yes, but that was when New Zealand was still a caring society, when looking after the vulnerable was important and when our social security system wasn’t for sale. Even the National Party back then held these values. Remember the PEP schemes? Muldoon was a bullying dictator who did some some pretty reprehensible things, but what’s going on now is something very different, something far more sinister.
       • weka 4.3.1.1

         21 August 2013 at 11:31 am

         I largely agee Mary, but do you actually believe that all NACT MPs are completely devoid of conscience?
         • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.3.1.1.1

           21 August 2013 at 11:33 am

           Weka’s right. Even Ross Meurant still has the capacity to surprise.
         • Mary 4.3.1.1.2

           21 August 2013 at 12:31 pm

           Of course there’d be a Nact MP or two who’d have a modicum of conscience stuck to the sole a shoe they hardly ever wear anymore, but the climate these days means that they’d be far less likely to act upon it, or even let anyone know they have one. The same climate also makes it less likely for Nact to attract anyone who either has a conscience or who’s prepared to allow themselves to be guided by it.
     • Rich 4.3.2

       21 August 2013 at 1:19 pm

       She would have joined National in the same era as Roger Douglas joined Labour. I think the concept of people joining a party they fundamentally differ with ideologically because of family tradition might still exist in Labour (see Shane Jones), but it’s been completely expunged on the right.
     • Murray Olsen 4.3.3

       21 August 2013 at 8:50 pm

       I will admit that not all conservative politicians were devoid of conscience, weka, but those days have well and truly gone. They left us with the imposition of the Friedmanite bullshit known as Rogernomics, where everything has a price and nothing has value. These days, everything is framed in terms of the economy, and those at the top want us watched. The conservatives who are left are just their yapping poodles. We used to be different. Mateship (awful word), egalitarianism, and looking after the vulnerable (as long as they weren’t gay or too foreign) all used to mean something. Now it’s one up manship, economic elitism, and stomping on those beneath us, all to get a smile of approval from the big boys. I want our country back, for all of us.
5. Rodel 5

   21 August 2013 at 11:09 am

   Marilyn Waring?
   In today’s news, minister of justice, Ms Collins found it ‘chilling’ that her emails and those of others including journalists could be accessed by the GCSB.
   She almost sounded as if she wanted to vote against the bill. Will she? ….and would this be the beginning of her takeover?
   • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1

     21 August 2013 at 11:34 am

     Link? Please.
     • Veutoviper 5.1.1

       21 August 2013 at 12:36 pm

       Here – report on the Privileges Committee hearing that started this morning on the Dunne/Vance situation

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11111999
       • mickysavage 5.1.1.1

         21 August 2013 at 1:07 pm

         Gee lots of ducking for cover from Banks and Collins.

         What is going on here?
         • amirite 5.1.1.1.1

           21 August 2013 at 1:30 pm

           Nothing. Just lots of concern for their own selves and their own personal freedom.
           Everyone else deserved to be snooped on.
   • phillip ure 5.2

     21 August 2013 at 1:00 pm

     collins is post-key positioning..

     (and seems to be hastening towards it..?..does she know something we yet don’t..?..)

     ..less ‘crusher’..and more ‘musher’..eh..? (c.f…urban-dictionary..)

     phillip ure..
     • Jenny 5.2.1

       21 August 2013 at 7:59 pm

       Is it possible? Could it be that Collins is the one to stand up, against this appallingly bad piece of rushed legislation?

       She certainly gives the appearance of having the steely disposition necessary to stand up to all the opprobrium that would be heaped on her.

       That this would set her up to be the next leader of the National Party, might be debatable. But if she stuck to her guns and came out blazing she would probably be able to draw a few other National MPs, seeing which way the wind was blowing, around her. Collins would then have the core of grouping able to stand up to Key.

       What would Key do?

       Like Muldoon before him, faced with a similiar situation, if he is desperate enough, he might choose to call a snap election to try and claw back a mandate.

       However that didn’t work at to well for Muldoon so he is unlikely to do that.

       What else might he do?

       The Maori Party have been strangely silent throughout this whole debate.

       Key could try lobbying the Maori Party to supply the necessary missing votes.

       Maybe Key is already doing this, which is why no National MP wants to go out on a limb in case they are undermined by the Maori Party?

       What would it take for Key to get the Maori Party on side? A few more $million for Whanau Ora? A cabinet post for Turoa Flavell?

       The Maori Party need to release a statement that they will not vote for this piece of legislation under any circumstances. And explain why. This may give any wavering National MP the courage to follow their convictions. It will also give them an ally in the inevitable show down with Key.

       If this MP was Collins, she could also reach out to New Zealand First as well. That would provide Collins with another ally to counter Key, especially if in the contest of wills, Collins offered New Zealand First a place in the government.

       Such an arrangement, a National Party led by Collins, supported by NZ First and the Maori Party, would probably mean an unbeatable coalition in the next elections.

       Would this be a bad thing?

       Would getting rid of this legislation be worth it.

       What should the opposition parties do?

       Should they, as well as lobbying National MPs to cross the floor. Also be lobbying the Maori Party to come out more strongly against this bill, in the hope that this would strengthen opposition inside the National Party.
6. bad12 6

   21 August 2013 at 1:28 pm

   i find the optimism of this post admirable but really??? any of the current shower of National MP’s cross the floor of the Parliament on any issue they have not been give a ‘conscience vote’ on???,

   There is more chance of a magnitude 7 earthquake occurring on the Wellington fault-line while they are all stuck in the Nays and Ayes lobby’s…
7. Bob 7

   21 August 2013 at 3:50 pm

   If one member of National ‘crossed the floor’, wouldn’t that mean that the bill would be dismissed by one vote? An irony obviously lost on every commentator here so far
   • lprent 7.1

     21 August 2013 at 4:03 pm

     But laws should be hard to pass and easy to fail. That is parliaments job to examine and toss out the bad law. Otherwise we’d get overwhelmed with bad laws….
     • Lou 7.1.1

       21 August 2013 at 5:48 pm

       “Otherwise we’d get overwhelmed with bad laws….”
       Ummm, we do, don’t we?
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

         21 August 2013 at 5:54 pm

         Pretty much.
8. lprent 8

   21 August 2013 at 6:23 pm

   Yes, but if we didn’t have parliament vetting the damn things then we’d wind up more like somewhere like ummm Fiji (is the closest I think). There are some really daft laws on our books (and used to be even more before the reformed laws of the last half-century – try the old crimes act for instance).

   However they are a lot less of an issue than countries where laws are issued by the hangovers of military governments ..

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS