The last National government admitted they could not afford their promises without an increase in GST.
This government just says it cannot afford …. …. …. …. …. …. ….. ….. ….. – meanwhile they are waiting for foreign governments to give them cash vouchers for commercial airline fares so they can afford going to international events on routes Air NZ does not fly (presumably already using government bulk-buying points on the routes Air New Zealand flies).
Good interview with Judith Hobson, the elderly women seriously assaulted at the Let Women Speak event in Auckland last year. Yesterday the man who punched her in the head three times got discharged without conviction and name suppression (which means you can't name him on TS).
Well done the Herald for this piece, one of the few NZ neutral pieces on the gender/sex wars.
content warning, serious male violence against a woman.
I'm posting this for two reasons.
significant parts of the left passively sanctioned this by calling the mob a peaceful protest and by not speaking out against it at the time. Including the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Marama Davidson. Perhaps she thought it was outside of her brief. But it's understandable why so many people are so angry and believe the message is that it's ok to assault elderly women if you hate her politics.
we can look this week to see if the left still won't condemn the attack.
Looks like you are an apologist for violence, in this case repeatly punching an elderly woman in the face in an unprovoked attack Robet. Good to know that Robert.
The only defence would have been if he had of been criminally insane at the time Robert. He wasn't
What are you on about? The only thing I said about him was that he violently assaulted an elderly woman and got discharged without conviction and name suppression.
Robert, that diagnosis doesn't come with a propensity for ungovernable violent urges.A gullible judge, or a scared judge(of the backlash )has had the wool pulled over his/her/their eyes.I have a close friend who also suffers from adhd and high functioning autism, a remarkable , intelligent person who struggles fitting in , but manages , and has never been violent. Nowhere have I seen that the young man has been ordered to seek help in managing his impulses.Whereas the elderly woman is stuck with sleep problems and fearfulness.I fully sympathise with her.Do you?
I work with people on the IDCCR Act, including a young man with autism & ADHD who hit someone over the head with a skateboard because he was "provoked" (someone swore at him at a bus stop).
The only side Peters is on is his own. And his law and order, lock. 'em up approach isn't as useful to women as it might seem. Putting that young man in prison would almost certainly ruin his life and teach him how to be violent long term. Women don't benefit from putting men into a violence training school.
I'm not. Like I said, the liberal left have sanctioned that it's ok to punch women now if you don't like their politics. And apparently it's women's fault that trans people also get attacked. Twofer.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick, so I will attempt to explain my thinking.
I gave an example above about Marama Davidson not condemning the assault. In her role as Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence this seemed extraordinary. She could have condemned the assault and still spoken up for trans rights. That lack of condemnation is a passive sanctioning.
TRAs presented the protest as peaceful. It wasn’t. Again, in the discussions that day and afterwards I didn’t see the liberal, pro genderists condemning the violence. It’s a passive sanctioning.
It’s similar to the years on twitter when TRAs could post violent, often sexualised, imagery at feminists and other women, and the pro genderist left just let it happen. Even now when I post a link to https://terfisaslur.com/ I am nearly always met with resounding silence and then arguments about evil terfs. Passive sanctioning.
And tonight Robert had to be prompted to condemn the assault on Hobson, and then spend the rest of the evening talking about a woman being pushed rather than the violent assault on Hobson.
This is such a familiar pattern that I have seen over many years now. Others see it too. There is no longer any base line value that women shouldn’t be hit. There used to be.
this would be another example of a minimising argument. Instead of talking about the violent assault and the political implications, you want to focus on something the woman said in her anger at the discharge and name suppression.
"The person who "suffers from ADHD and autism" is a "disgrace"?
Hmmmmm…."
Robert you are being disingenuous and I don't believe you don't know it. (But I could be wrong of course)
Suffering from ADHD and autism doesn't give a person an excuse for punching an elderly woman in the face. It's clear that he is described as "a disgrace" because of his violent act, not because of his neurodevelopmental disorders.
Judith appears to have left her viewing/listening spot, upon seeing the person who was removing the standards/tape, approached that person, who was in no way involving herself with Judith, then pushing/elbowing that standard-remover. True, or not? To me, that's significant. That's why I've mentioned it.
"A bit of pushing by Hobson" has, so far as I know, has never been mentioned here. A link would convince me otherwise.
Did you read the Herald piece Robert? There was a protest and the pushing you are referring to and the conflict over the fencing is pretty normal in the NZ context of protests.
An elderly women getting head punched repeatedly by an adrenalined up man and the left not being able to condemn it is out of the ordinary and new. It was a watershed moment. Still is apparently.
Naughty Judith must have asked for it Robert (sarc). What century are we living in here?
BTW not long before the attack the tras pushed through the barriers. There were no police (they were idlely standing on the periphery). From what I have heard from women at the event, when this happened they were terrified. An out of control malevolent mob with the back up of 2000 versus 200 or so mostly women, some girls, some elderly, one pregnant
I'm going to assume that you didn't watch the replay of the livestream. Because if you did and you don't believe that women there were terrified, that speaks very ill of you.
I know people that were there, including a man who was on the rotunda. He described it as terrifying.
I watched the livestream, I found it terrifying. I know other women likewise, including women who are highly critical of KJK and had been trying to get her to cancel her Australian events.
It was a mob. I have zero doubt that there were many people there intent on a peaceful protest and got caught up on how it played out. I also believe that there were people there with the intention for it to turn violent if needed. You can see that in the video.
It is not scare mongering Robert. The mob was malevolent. I have read many personal accounts written by the women from LWS. The pregnant women who was trapped on the band rotunda, surrounded by an angry mob who were assaulting women and who were trying to get at Kellie Jae who knew if she fell down she would have been seriously injured, if not killed. She got out in one piece because of the stewards, mostly women, who were kicked, pushed, tripped up, spat at and had liquid thrown over them.
You can try and ridicule me, but it only shows how out of touch you are with what happened that day. How dare you
Right there, you've revealed your powerful bias, anker. You should declare a conflict of interest and retire from the debate, anger (intentional typo).
Thansks for your suggestion that I should retire from the debate (sarc). I kind of like to make my own decisions about whether I shut up or keep talking.
Okay. Judith voluntarily left her post, involved herself with the standard-remover, unnecessarily, imo, poked and elbowed, imo, and attracted the attention of the assailant. No one else did that.
I absolutely condemn physical assault, mild or damaging.
Why do you say the woman who was pushed by JH, was the person who opened up the fence barrier – that it is not on the videos above (they both begin afterwards)?
different fence. JH pushed a woman who was removing a white, tape line and picket. You can’t really see it in the video above. One of the casualities of No Debate. I couldn’t easily find a better video. I know they exist because I’ve watched them a fair bit. But they’re on twitter and youtube in accounts I don’t know well enough to just grab.
One of many watershed moments for me Weka. Many males on the left must have been talking bullshit back in the day when they claimed to be standing up for women's rights
the thing I learned was that for some lw men, their support for women's rights and/or feminism is dependent upon the men agreeing with the thing women are going on about. When they disagree, the support for women and feminism goes. Thus women's rights is still a subset of men's politics. And then they wonder why so many women fell in behind KJK.
Not all left trans ally men, and definitely not all left wing men, but it was an eyeopener.
You're not "curious", you are gaslighting. You're minimising what happened, and patronising women here who are telling you, we are disgusted, frightened, feckin over TQ+ activists, the behaviour of the cops and the judiciary on this issue and we are not going silently.
One of many watershed moments for me Weka. Many males on the left must have been talking bullshit back in the day when they claimed to be standing up for women's rights
I am lodged in biological reality Robert. There are only two sexes and you can't change your sex.
Telling children they might have born in the wrong body and that if their sex "assigned" at birth may be wrong. Rather than being a boy, they might actually have a gender identity which means they are really a boy. And as a boy who is really a girl its o.k. for them to use the girls toilets change rooms, enter girls competitions. etc etc. I would suggest that anyone who is lodged here is operating under a delusion.
and yet some of us know exactly what anker is talking about, understand the thoughts she is expressing, and see them as not only pertinent to this conversation but essential.
In the shorter video coverage it looked like she was trying to get a poster off him, that was discussed here last March.
I'd not seen the longer video footage, which showed a different context, till now.
She seems to have wanted to preserve the original intent – counter-protestors behind the barrier fence, to keep the rotunda surround for those there to listen to speakers (if that was lost, the speakers would be drowned out by noise).
She gave a female a push back towards the fence. Then he moved to punch her. Then after being knocked back she moved forward towards him (my guess still in a I’ve got to do something mode at that point. And then he punched her twice more.
Of course she wanted to preserve the "original intent – counter protestors behind the barrier fence". The women knew they were hopelessly out numbered, the counter protesters were making a defeaning noise and they had signs like "suck my lady dick c…t).and many of them were men including a 6' 6" drag queen who towered over everyone….and then they barged through the barrier……. Very hard to fathom why the Let Women Speak crowd where desperate to maintain the physical barriers between themselves the counter protester.s
Well actually the old lady (demented ) was approaching the police with a knife.
The response was disproportionate, given the size and strength differential.Thats exactly what we’re talking about.
A young man , who had not been personally threatened, bashing an elderly woman, not once, not twice, but three times .You, and all of us commenting(I hope) have seen the injury.Any corresponding injury on the girl you mentioned who was shoved or the young man ?
that's a good point. Mostly I see Robert running diversion arguments here. Why talking about how the elderly woman was damaged when we can talk about another woman being pushed a couple of times.
If I am wrong, then explain your thinking and position and argument. This is exactly what happens when people don't. We engage with what we see and comment on it.
Perhaps you could explain it in a different way then Robert? It sounds to me and maybe others although I can't speak for them, as though you're somehow saying she asked for it? Or that she is somehow responsible for the assault upon her, in other words victim blaming.
The reason it seems this way is because you keep bringing up her pushing someone away from her or poking them or something as if it is somehow relevant to the assault upon her by the man in question?
If that isn't the point you are trying to make then can you make it easier for people to understand what the point is that you're making here?
Sometimes it’s better to say exactly what you want to say so there is no misunderstanding rather than try and lead people to a ‘lightbulb’ moment where they suddenly make your argument for you without you saying it or they ‘see’ what it is you are meaning IMO.
"Perhaps you could explain it in a different way then Robert? It sounds to me and maybe others although I can't speak for them, as though you're somehow saying she asked for it?"
No, I am not saying that, nor do I believe that. Judith seems to have not interacted with the assailant at all. She did though, interact with the fence-remover who was walking back from gathering up the temporary fence.
"Or that she is somehow responsible for the assault upon her, in other words victim blaming."
No, she is not responsible at all for the assault. She did though, "argy bargy" the fence-remover. I'm supposing this action attracted the attention of the assailant.
"The reason it seems this way is because you keep bringing up her pushing someone away from her or poking them or something as if it is somehow relevant to the assault upon her by the man in question?"
Yes, I do. I believe it is, unless there's something I've missed: I asked myself, after watching the video many times, why the assailant chose Judith.
"If that isn't the point you are trying to make then can you make it easier for people to understand what the point is that you're making here?"
I have tried to be clear. I ought probably to bulk out my comments with disclaimers and statements about what I'm not saying. From my point of view, some here are leaping to conclusions and signing negative meanings to my observations and questions.
"Sometimes it’s better to say exactly what you want to say so there is no misunderstanding rather than try and lead people to a ‘lightbulb’ moment where they suddenly make your argument for you without you saying it or they ‘see’ what it is you are meaning IMO."
I agree, sometimes it is. Some people feel I'm trying to "gotcha" them by getting them to agree with one thing or other. This lack of faith frustrates me a lot. I'm not blaming anyone for this 🙂 Sometimes though, pithy one-liners are good value.Here's one:
At risk of a pounding from your detractors on this matter, I skimmed through this thread last night and had no trouble understanding what you were trying to say.
There was imo fault on both sides. Of course the elderly lady was not deserving of what happened and the person responsible has been judged accordingly and has to pay her some compensation.
However the lady was clearly bringing attention to herself by tackling the person who pulled down the fence. Her supporters can be as pedantry as they like but, in a nutshell, that is what happened. Of course she was not to know there was a person who has behavioural problems associated with a mental disorder in the vicinity.
Unfortunately the elderly lady chose not to believe the circumstances around what followed. Yesterday, after the judge disclosed his findings, she is reported to have yelled out to the defendant "he was a little bastard and telling lies."
No judge is going to make a finding of ADHD and Autism (quite severe by the sounds of it) without thoroughly checking its veracity. While understanding what the lady has been through (having also had very traumatic experiences) that was not a suitable response and could be construed by some as disputing and disrespecting the judges findings.
I also note the defendant quickly recognised his behaviour was wrong. He has done many hours of community service already and undertaken further treatment for his disorders. You can't ask for more than that.
I did not have time to go digging out links – especially when they appeared to be all over the media yesterday. In such circumstances most people are well able to link themselves.
However one apparent error on my part: I thought she had made the statement directly to the defendant but she might have made it to the media. Doesn't make any difference to the inappropriateness of the statement.
[the quote you used isn’t in the link you have now supplied. I couldn’t find your quote when I googled yesterday. If you want to paraphrase then don’t use ” “.
I think you mislead in a number of ways, but that one is really not ok. We have a ‘link when you quote’ rule for good reasons. I’m sick of having to waste my time chasing you up on this pattern of yours.
If you don’t have time to link, then don’t comment until you do. I’m over using my time on this. Next time I see you do something like this, I will either just dump the whole comment in Trash and/or I will give you a short ban. Bans will increase each time. – weka]
The Judge granted the discharge without conviction and permanent name suppression but ordered him to pay $1000 reparation to the victim, Judith Hobson, who made her views of the verdict clear as she left court today.
and while her use of quote marks isn't ideal, threatening Anne with a ban seems … harsh, don't you think, especially in light of her follow-up explanation.
I replied pointing out I might have been in error about who the woman was speaking to. Is that not good enough for you? Here is the quote:
The Judge granted the discharge without conviction and permanent name suppression but ordered him to pay $1000 reparation to the victim, Judith Hobson, who made her views of the verdict clear as she left court today.
“You’re a lying little b******,” she said to him.
I took it – not unreasonably – to mean the lady in question was speaking directly to the defendant.
There was nothing in my comment that was unreasonable, My crime appears to be that I was "telling lies".
Edit: I see SPC has also linked to the quote.
[I’m no longer interested in trying to get you to comment within the rules. Ball is in your court. I encourage you to read this, because I’m past my limit of wasting my time on this https://thestandard.org.nz/moderation-notes-in-election-year/
– weka]
The victim really ought to have "transitioned" before the trial. Only a declaration is needed. That way the woke overlords' system would have recognised her as a victim.
No wonder NZ has such terrible rates of family and sexual violence – there is always a man ready to excuse it based on something the victim did. You can remain unmolested as long as you stay in your place. Look at the repellent, pompous ass in this thread imagining he has something to impart about events, some rationale exists in his addled misogynist brain that means the perpetrator was only part of the reason punches landed on a woman’s face – a woman he doubtless knew wouldnt punch him back. Hopefully the next woman he hits has a haymaker like mine.
that's not how it works here. You can name it as abuse if you want, but you may need to make an argument to support that. However another person being abusive doesn't mean you can be.
I'm asking you to dial back the abuse because otherwise there will be a flamewar, and the mods (of which I am one), will start banning people to prevent that getting out of control. Doesn't really matter what side they are on.
He likened being hit with being "prodded" – etc. That is extremely dangerous minimising and this mindset is why NZ is a world leader in abuse of women. He's taking a faux-socratic, patronising approach "Well [name of woman] comma, [the victim moved from her station not saying she should be hit but she did move] [pass-ag filler such as Yes? Nay? Prithee?] [name of woman] comma, " it's skin-crawling.
You have spent the evening trying to establish an equivalence between the woman being pushed and the woman being violently assaulted
That is extremely dangerous minimising and this mindset is why NZ is a world leader in abuse of women.
I agree with this and it seems like standard progressive analysis. Feel free to make an argument against it.
He's taking a faux-socratic, patronising approach
I've pointed out before that you often fail to explain your thinking and instead rely on asking questions. I accept you think you've described things clearly, but unfortunately this is how it comes across. Clarifying thinking to people we are talking with is useful in debate. I find it more satisfying too.
"Well [name of woman] comma, [the victim moved from her station not saying she should be hit but she did move] [pass-ag filler such as Yes? Nay? Prithee?] [name of woman] comma, " it's skin-crawling.
I don't find it skincrawling. I think you are largely unversed in feminism and you present arguments that have long been explained by feminism as a problem for women and our rights eg that women assaulted are responsible for their assault.
Billie, perhaps you might have a view on how the person who removed the standards might have felt when they were approached/pushed/prodded. If you were in that position, how might you have felt? After all, your only action involved removing a temporary fence.
From what I saw on the video, the remover barely reacted at all to the pushing.
"if you only action was to remove a temporary fence". Sounds innocent enough Robert. But actually that fence was the barrier between the baying mob and the peaceful women's group.
A number of women were assaulted at Albert Park. The wonderful women stewards who surrounded Posie and risked their physical integrity (they were punched and kicked, spat at) to save her life.
I'm not trying to distract, anger. It is possible, I believe, to discuss details of complex issues without an alterior motive such as wishing to distract.
agree with Anker here, the removal of that fence was pivotal in letting the protestors move into the area designated for LWS, turning into a mob and surrounding the band rotunda. My understanding is that this would have been obvious to the people on the ground, as was the absence of police who had said they would be there to maintain order.
I don't think about it in terms of deserving, but you are the one arguing here that an elderly woman punch in the head unprovoked is somehow complicit in her own assault.
You seem really intent on getting people to talk about the pushing rather than punching in the head that led to what appears to be PTSD. That's why people are saying you are minimising the assault.
You appear to want to draw some equivalence between the two. I think they're apples and oranges.
The person who removed the tape/fence was facilitating an invasion of a space occupied by women who were entitled to be present in it unmolested. And the potential (later actual) invaders were a much more numerous mob which included a number of physically larger and stronger people carrying signs which proclaimed their extreme hostility for all to see. Anyone who was trying to prevent all that was unquestionably in the right.
Robert it was not a tape fence, whatever that is but a sturdy metal one of the type that can form an unbroken line when they are slotted togther onto lugs.
The one of tape – was intended to create a visual no-man's land between the metal barrier and the attendees of the LetWomenSpeak event. (See video below)
Some context:
Event wardens passed on the (questionable) police advice to attendees, to ensure they stayed within the fenced off area, and to only face the rotunda. They said that making eye contact with any protestors may trigger violence. This may explain the reaction of Judith when she turned and found both the metal barrier breached and someone deliberately pulling up the tape barrier, effectively destroying the barrier between the attendees and those protesting women's right to speak and/or listen.
Many adults with ADHD and autism do not enact violence on others.
The man who assaulted Judith travelled several hundred km in order to stop women speaking or listening, without any idea of the content of their speech. It is unlikely that this excursion was taken in the spirit of knowledge seeking and camaderie. The vilification of the event beforehand(and those attending) was intense, carried out by politicians, media and talking heads, despite their obvious lack of knowledge of the event or the LetWomenSpeak format.
The force of the punches (as would be expected from a young man) on the fragility of an older woman's skull, resulted in fractures of the skull and eye socket. Any kind of head trauma, can result in long-lasting and permanent effects. The psychological trauma of this occurring because someone is irate at the thought of women speaking in NZ, should not be lightly dismissed.
This was not the only act of violence against women who were there on that day. Police have been reluctant to charge any who committed violence, and had advised Judith any charges would be unlikely. It was only due to public identification of the man charged that charges went ahead. She was advised to accept diversion more than once. Other incidents did not result in charges at all, or indeed a notable amount of police interest.
Despite repeated references to the longer video, it seems no one has posted. Here it is:
Yes I now realise Robert was talking about the rope fence inside the metal fence and closer to the band rotunda.
On this video, I have also linked to the longer version this morning, it is clear without doubt that the Police were not there, had retired and left the women alone & vulnerable to the press of the crowd at the very least and to the bashing, pushing and clunking with placards at worst.
There is no difference of opinion in the world that justifies citizens meting out violence on other citizens. NONE. There is no colour of right that says it is OK to bash and threaten if you perceive you are on the right side, whether or not all the handmaidens and media support this. NONE
As you know, my partner and daughter were there on the day.
No-one was attacking the men attendees. A curt, "Get out of here" from my partner to someone shouting through a megaphone in his ear, resulted in that protestor against women speaking, going somewhere else.
I have spoken to other women who attended that were targets of aggression and violence.
"I believe Judith Hobson also travelled several hundred km, in order to stop transgender people living their lives with dignity."
Why do you believe that? Is the idea of women speaking and listening an act of violence?
"It is unlikely that this excursion was taken in the spirit of knowledge seeking and camaderie."
On the contrary, this is the most likely scenario when you are speaking about older women rather than young men. Also when you take into further consideration the event format and intention, as opposed to the protest against women speaking and listening intention and misinformation.
Robert comma you know what my view is comma Robert comma yes/pass-ag patronising filler question mark Robert comma men who hit women should go to jail. And Robert comma that Robert is the only thing that matters about this incident comma Robert.
But knock yourself out dood (before a TRA does – after all everything is twanzfowbicke so even the hashtag bekind allies will get a good slapping eventually… The TQ+ movement will eat itself in the end (when it finishes eating crayons)
For god sake Robert. I am sure you are a well meaning person and good human being. You are just hopelessly barking up the wrong tree here and it is coming as the sort of questioning women have had to endure for centuries when it comes to violence and sexual violence.
The woman who got shuved by Judith is an absolute red herring. She may not have liked it or it may not havebothered her too much. She could have put a complaint to the police if she wanted to, but it appears she didn't. Many of us have been shoved a bit at protests especially if "terriortory" is being breached. I am not even sure it was deliberate by Judith, although it could have been.
The issue here is the violent repeated assault by a young man against an elderly women. Have you seen the photos of her bruises? Did you read about the injuries, physical and psychological?
You have failed to listen to the women on this site and their concerns about gender ideology and their sex based rights. You simply do not get it as a number of the men on this site.
For there to be an assault there has to be intent. Did the elderly women push/poke the other person to cause her physical harm or to try and keep some sort of social order (perhaps so there wouldn't be greater harm)? To me it sounds like she was trying to keep social order by trying to maintain the integrity of the fencing rather than to cause harm. Was it the best way to do that – no – but then she's probably never been trained in what to do – and then things got way out of control – well beyond what she would be physically able to deal with anyway.
What was the young man's intent? It seem purposefully to cause harm and, with high levels of aggravation, because he hit her multiple times and because of the disparity between the two physically.
@mpledger. Spot on, the counter demonstration was there to stop the initial demonstration/event or whatever it my be described as.
I would have thought that for the “granny basher” being part of a counter demonstration and using violet action to shut down a event like this would have been considered a aggravating factor in sentencing.
"For there to be an assault there has to be intent. Did the elderly women push/poke the other person to cause her physical harm or to try and keep some sort of social order…"
Are you making a joke?
Push/poke is push/poke. I suspect the only defence in law would be self-preservation/defense, but please prove me wrong.
If a kid chases a ball towards the road and an adult grabs the kid to stop him running onto the road – is that assault or is that physical contact to avert risk of an accident? Intent is important.
It's like the Japanese subway – they have marshals to push people into carriages so that the doors can close when they are overfill. There is obvious physical contact but it's not considered assault because the intent is to be helpful, there is no intent to harm.
Peters and Hipkins agree there is a need for new planes
But Labour Party leader Chris Hipkins rejected this assessment, and said the Labour government was looking at replacing the planes before it lost the Treasury front benches because the 757s which were a critical public asset which needed to be maintained.
“Let's be clear, when they [National] talk about not being able to afford things, it's because they are making the wrong choices,” Hipkins said.
“The 757’s need to be replaced. We replaced the Orions and were in the process of replacing the Hercules. We'd allocated money for those and 757s, I think in terms of Air Force equipment, were next on the list. ”
Don't even know where to start with this reply LoL.
I suppose we could start with the Labour Alliance Coalition cancelling the Option for 8 J's Model C130's in the early 2000's and kicking the can down the Rd with a stupid SLEP that didn't really address any of the major issues on the Aircraft but systems/ avionics instead of Engineering & Airframe which nearly fell over because of the age of the RNZAF C130 Fleet even back then LoL.
Or we look at the FAMC Business Case that the NZDF & MoD took to Cabinet in the final 12-18mths of the last National Government?
Where Mr Key, Bling & Treasury did their collective Nana over the costs of replacing both the C130's & B757's while at same time Business Case for the P3 Replacement had been or was about to be approved.
Against the advice of the NZDF & MoD the FAMC was split up, the C130 replacement was approved but going from 8 Model's to 5 Models while the telling Military & MoD to come back in +6yrs time because according to Treasury there was still plenty of life left in the B757's even though the RNZAF/ Military uses them rather differently to your bog standard Airline/ Cargo Operator.
So fast forward to 6yrs, so here we are again FFS!
Poor Chippy had issues in his final 18mths of Government with B757's, could've he ordered the replacements?
Yes, but in light what has happened with a number of Government of contracts atm, they probably would've got chopped?
The other issue was the forthcoming DWP & DCP now out in June not September as originally planned. Had Chippy ordered the B757 replacement, may've equipment upset the delicate funding for other Major NZDF & MoD Infrastructure & Capital Equipment Replacement/ Upgrades.
So my assumption, which I believe was the correct one, if that was decision by the last Labour Govt was to wait for the new DWP & DCP to be released and go form there.
Now weather this Government does this?
Is how long, is a piece of string or more correctly how long is the rope to hang themselves IRT to their talk of Defence Cuts (NZDF Budget 6.5% cut & MoD 7.5% cut) while increasing funding to the NZDF & MoD Budgets etc amongst word pasta they said to the Australian's recently?
Just to note on the proposed Defence Budget Cuts by National, the NZDF 6.5% cuts does actually mean cuts to NZDF capabilities btw because their nothing else left to cut.
1st on the list is the Seasprites, Karman has pulled out of the Helicopter Business, so the spare parts are becoming tight & NZDF was only meant to get 15yrs out of them which getting close to that mark or may even be over that 15yr period now?
Treasury is sniffing hard around wanting to contract out the RNZAF's Pilot & Air Crew Training syllabus to the Private Sector! Which hasn't worked in the UK or in Canada btw & has been a complete shit fight resulting in a massive shortage of Pilots etc!
Not sure what can be cut in the Navy atm, but they would highly effected by the grounding of the Seasprites across all its Helicopter capable ships.
So during the reign of Queen Liza, Elizabeth II, there were a lot of holes in a lot of buckets.
There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza, There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, There's a hole. Then fix it dear Henry, dear Henry,
History Reprise – Henry founder of the English navy, grandfather of Elizabeth 1, was married to Elizabeth of York – rightful Queen of he realm.
The failure to join the Oz buy of Hercules was a mistake by Labour 2000, surprising since they could have rationalised a priority on transport to explain the loss of the fighter wing.
Then 2017-2023 Labour could have funded the B757 replacement and Orion to Poseidon.
Thus with the ANZAC's and LAV's of the 1999-2008 era they could have said they did all the heavy lifting on defence funding.
At the moment with National's focus on funding partners, one wonders what will be on the new transport planes (Fly Emirates maybe – taking the Americas Cup sponsorship to new off the ground and sea foil levels). Or Trump Premier House (depending on 2024 results).
The debate at the moment is over whether we can retain inter-operability if outside AUKUS Pillar 2.
Yes not buying the J's in the 2000's would've freed up alot money atm to replace the B757's, but as you said reorientation the NZDF to towards a more sustainable UN Peacekeeping/ Peace Enforcement Defence Force but the Labour Alliance Coalition didn't considering 3/4's of the NZDF was involved with Peacekeeping Mission in Timor Leste since 99.
The Labour Alliance Coalition couldn't even be bothered to fund the NZDF Lesson Learnt's from that Operation as well unlike Oz so much for their stupid word salad from the Coalition at the time which the punters took hook line & sinker but Military LoL.
Also speaking of the Labour Govt under Chippy according the Australian Senate committee hearing. Andy Little also appears to have given the NZDF & MoD in principle the to a fact finding mission to buy lock stock & barrel the entire MRH90's that were grounded here in Oz in wake of recent HADR events in NZ & the forecast Natural Disasters in NZ. But apparently it went cold at Cabinet Level back in NZ, even though the NZDF was successful when the brought the ex RAN Seasprites for $250m 15 odd yrs ago.
This could very will bite someone in the ass in the near future, as the last HADR event in NZ near broke the NZDF in more ways than one. As the servicing of the 8 NH90's is still behind schedule & doesn't like it will be cleared until May atm. Heck even extra 4 NH90's will give the NZDF some redundancy & make the Fleet more sustainable (Rise Train Sustain).
There was a NZDF/ MoD Capabilities Team at the recent Singapore Airshow & I believe they spent a bit of time in the Airbus tent LoL.
Which isn't strange because the new hangers at Ohakea are designed to take the A400's & A330 MRTT's btw.
I am not surprised they are looking at Airbus, Boeing rep has gone down – the Poseidon plane being one of the last of pre merger standard (decline in production quality since).
Taking on MRH90's (ex Dec 2024) would have kept Oz happy and been useful in the climate change era as to relief after floods etc (that and no coastal shipping development means another "infrastructure" capability vulnerability).
Boeing has always going to shit ever since they merged McD, as McD is management systems have to be some of the stupid ideas going around at the time & Boeing was Engineering Safety focus.
Boeing's current Management Team is all Ex McD and yet they can't work out what's wrong with Boeing LoL!
Airbus has a lot of flexibility across it's fixed wing fleet, the RAAF has the MRTT's, Malaysia has the A400's in a Strategic Airlift & Tanker Role.
I'm hoping some NZ based Journalists would do a FOI or whatever it's called in NZ about the NZDF & MoD along with Andy Little making inquires IRT to buying the entire ADF MRH90 Fleet only for Cabinet to knock it back.
With that ditty being a benchmark of that'soft'…(and one that has me leaping for the dial..happy to never hear again..too mawkish/treackly for my tastes..)
As as for u2…?…they too have softened over the years ..so the meeting of the two works on the 'soft' scale ..
I walked into the men's room..to find a half a dozen african-american women jostling around a large silver tray..with a large spiral of cocaine on it..
I apologized… thinking I was in the wrong room..
They heard my accent..and thrust the tray at me..
And a good time was had by all..
And j.brown lifted the roof on the apollo…to about the wildest audience reaction I have ever experienced….
This weekend gone I saw 3 bands in 3 cities. (CC activists look away).
Due to not paying attention to dates I said yes to a gig in Aucks while committed to gigs in and around Wellies.
Friday night Queens of the Stone Age at TSB. Fantastic trip through their career, Jon Theodore on drums a highlight for me. 60% boys 40% girls.
Sat night at Auckland Town Hall, Dinosaur Jr. Very loud (only lasted an hour in the auditorium, had to retreat to the bar). Finished with their cover of Cure's Just like heaven. 70% boys 30% girls.
Due to Jet 'might get you there' Star arrived at Hutt Sounds in time to see Human League. Dare was one of my first records. Great set, finished with Don't you want me? and then for an encore Being Boiled and Electric dreams. Lots of costume changes. 60%girls 40% boys.
Home at midnight with a rotation of earworms cycling through. Very happy.
Cannot bear to watch channel 31 anymore as the nationals gang conduct yet another assault on the poor and reason itself. It is just too hard on my sensibilities to endure these horrible people making excuse after excuse to fracture the social contract and beat up on the poor. They are Adam Smiths "vile maxim" personified writ large!
Open access notablesA Global Increase in Nearshore Tropical Cyclone Intensification, Balaguru et al., Earth's Future:Tropical Cyclones (TCs) inflict substantial coastal damages, making it pertinent to understand changing storm characteristics in the important nearshore region. Past work examined several aspects of TCs relevant for impacts in coastal regions. However, ...
Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result? As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and always answered “yes”, with very few ...
Thus far May has followed on from a quiet April in the blogging department, but in fairness, it has been another case of doing what I am supposed to be doing, namely writing original fiction. Plus reading. So don’t worry – I have been productive. But in order to reassure ...
Buzz from the Beehive A new government agency will open for business on July 1 – the Social Investment Agency. As a new standalone central agency effective from 1 July, it will lead the development of social investment across Government, helping ministers understand who they need to invest in, what ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
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The last National government admitted they could not afford their promises without an increase in GST.
This government just says it cannot afford …. …. …. …. …. …. ….. ….. ….. – meanwhile they are waiting for foreign governments to give them cash vouchers for commercial airline fares so they can afford going to international events on routes Air NZ does not fly (presumably already using government bulk-buying points on the routes Air New Zealand flies).
Good interview with Judith Hobson, the elderly women seriously assaulted at the Let Women Speak event in Auckland last year. Yesterday the man who punched her in the head three times got discharged without conviction and name suppression (which means you can't name him on TS).
Well done the Herald for this piece, one of the few NZ neutral pieces on the gender/sex wars.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/nana-bashed-at-posie-parker-rally-outraged-over-sentence-of-her-young-attacker/IP644WFAENBM5CWUWSMJCZNVQA/
content warning, serious male violence against a woman.
I'm posting this for two reasons.
https://twitter.com/A1Retta/status/1764523316130598955
longer vid with context
https://twitter.com/A1Retta/status/1764818549724586004
"suffers from ADHD and autism"
Get stuck into him, weka!
Looks like you are an apologist for violence, in this case repeatly punching an elderly woman in the face in an unprovoked attack Robet. Good to know that Robert.
The only defence would have been if he had of been criminally insane at the time Robert. He wasn't
What are you on about? The only thing I said about him was that he violently assaulted an elderly woman and got discharged without conviction and name suppression.
Robert, that diagnosis doesn't come with a propensity for ungovernable violent urges.A gullible judge, or a scared judge(of the backlash )has had the wool pulled over his/her/their eyes.I have a close friend who also suffers from adhd and high functioning autism, a remarkable , intelligent person who struggles fitting in , but manages , and has never been violent. Nowhere have I seen that the young man has been ordered to seek help in managing his impulses.Whereas the elderly woman is stuck with sleep problems and fearfulness.I fully sympathise with her.Do you?
I have not seen that to date
I work with people on the IDCCR Act, including a young man with autism & ADHD who hit someone over the head with a skateboard because he was "provoked" (someone swore at him at a bus stop).
Oh God! They must all be a danger then! Lock em up! They shouldn't be on the streets
!
IDCCR Act.
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0116/latest/DLM224578.html
Judith shoved/poked someone, though, right?
Please provide a link Robert preferably from court documents.
Looks like they won't Weka if Robert is anything to go by.
But an Act MP has said it is a tragedy for women.
And Winston Peters made an indirect comment about it. Hint I infered from that he was on womens side
The only side Peters is on is his own. And his law and order, lock. 'em up approach isn't as useful to women as it might seem. Putting that young man in prison would almost certainly ruin his life and teach him how to be violent long term. Women don't benefit from putting men into a violence training school.
My full quote was,
Just so we are clear what I meant.
I explained it here,
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-05-03-2024/#comment-1991691
Quoting your own words as evidence?
Novel, if nothing else.
In the video, Anker – Judith approached and poked/elbowed/shoved the person who removed the standards, yes/no?
Whats that got to do with the young man repeatedly punching Judith? Or are you saying Judith asked for it?
I honestly am shocked you can watch that assault on an elderly woman and not be outraged Robert. Seriously I am.
I'm not. Like I said, the liberal left have sanctioned that it's ok to punch women now if you don't like their politics. And apparently it's women's fault that trans people also get attacked. Twofer.
Really? That would some sort of evidence – poll result? Anything?
evidence for what?
Evidence for your claim:
'the liberal left have sanctioned that it's ok to punch women now"
Thanks, in anticipation.
My full quote was,
Just so we are clear what I meant.
I explained it here,
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-05-03-2024/#comment-1991691
Who speaks for the left?
I'm not saying anyone is speaking for the left, so I don't really follow your question.
That reminds one of a joke, what happens when Socrates is teaching himself how to think?
So then, no one can dispute you claim about the left because no one speaks for the left.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick, so I will attempt to explain my thinking.
I gave an example above about Marama Davidson not condemning the assault. In her role as Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence this seemed extraordinary. She could have condemned the assault and still spoken up for trans rights. That lack of condemnation is a passive sanctioning.
TRAs presented the protest as peaceful. It wasn’t. Again, in the discussions that day and afterwards I didn’t see the liberal, pro genderists condemning the violence. It’s a passive sanctioning.
It’s similar to the years on twitter when TRAs could post violent, often sexualised, imagery at feminists and other women, and the pro genderist left just let it happen. Even now when I post a link to https://terfisaslur.com/ I am nearly always met with resounding silence and then arguments about evil terfs. Passive sanctioning.
And tonight Robert had to be prompted to condemn the assault on Hobson, and then spend the rest of the evening talking about a woman being pushed rather than the violent assault on Hobson.
This is such a familiar pattern that I have seen over many years now. Others see it too. There is no longer any base line value that women shouldn’t be hit. There used to be.
"“I hope his parents are proud of him. This is an absolute joke, and he’s a disgrace,” Hobson told the Herald."
So, Hobson is publicly shaming his parents???
The person who "suffers from ADHD and autism" is a "disgrace"?
Hmmmmm….
Mental health isnt an excuse for violent assualt… thousands of people battle their demons every day without resorting to assualting elderly woman.
Agreed, but his parents??
this would be another example of a minimising argument. Instead of talking about the violent assault and the political implications, you want to focus on something the woman said in her anger at the discharge and name suppression.
We should ignore the details that don't suit?
Why not address the things said, in a reasonable manner, then move to the next matter?
Minimalising? You're burying.
go ahead, I'll follow
Maybe she has adhd and autism Robert .For gods sake , cut her some slack
Oh, that's a good point, Francesca – I hadn't considered that!
No the person who violently assaulted an elderly women is a disgrace.
I think the vast majority of Kiwis would agree with my statement
No one knows who his parents are because he has name suppression.
"The person who "suffers from ADHD and autism" is a "disgrace"?
Hmmmmm…."
Robert you are being disingenuous and I don't believe you don't know it. (But I could be wrong of course)
Suffering from ADHD and autism doesn't give a person an excuse for punching an elderly woman in the face. It's clear that he is described as "a disgrace" because of his violent act, not because of his neurodevelopmental disorders.
"Suffering from ADHD and autism doesn't give a person an excuse for punching an elderly woman in the face. "
I agree entirely. Mine was a faulty juxtaposition.
yes, there was some argy bargy, including a bit of pushing by Hobson. What's the relevance of that to the news in the last 24 hours?
Argy-bargy?
Judith appears to have left her viewing/listening spot, upon seeing the person who was removing the standards/tape, approached that person, who was in no way involving herself with Judith, then pushing/elbowing that standard-remover. True, or not? To me, that's significant. That's why I've mentioned it.
"A bit of pushing by Hobson" has, so far as I know, has never been mentioned here. A link would convince me otherwise.
Did you read the Herald piece Robert? There was a protest and the pushing you are referring to and the conflict over the fencing is pretty normal in the NZ context of protests.
An elderly women getting head punched repeatedly by an adrenalined up man and the left not being able to condemn it is out of the ordinary and new. It was a watershed moment. Still is apparently.
"There was a protest and the pushing you are referring to and the conflict over the fencing is pretty normal in the NZ context of protests."
The head punching is appalling, weka.
It didn't come out of nowhere though.
Other "listeners" didn't get punched.
"Pushing" is okay, ya reckon? Even when the person pushed/elbowed wasn't interacting with or being aggressive to anyone?
Curious…
Glad to hear you say it Robert, thanks.
what does that mean?
Why was Judith the subject of attack?
Naughty Judith must have asked for it Robert (sarc). What century are we living in here?
BTW not long before the attack the tras pushed through the barriers. There were no police (they were idlely standing on the periphery). From what I have heard from women at the event, when this happened they were terrified. An out of control malevolent mob with the back up of 2000 versus 200 or so mostly women, some girls, some elderly, one pregnant
Scaremongery 101 from Anker: pregnant! Terrified! Malevolent mob Werewolves!
I'm going to assume that you didn't watch the replay of the livestream. Because if you did and you don't believe that women there were terrified, that speaks very ill of you.
I know people that were there, including a man who was on the rotunda. He described it as terrifying.
I watched the livestream, I found it terrifying. I know other women likewise, including women who are highly critical of KJK and had been trying to get her to cancel her Australian events.
It was a mob. I have zero doubt that there were many people there intent on a peaceful protest and got caught up on how it played out. I also believe that there were people there with the intention for it to turn violent if needed. You can see that in the video.
Assume away, weka, that seems to be the accepted way with some around this issue.
I agree, the situation will have will have been terrifying to some/many. But we are discussing the one woman and her role/fate, aren't we?
There seems to be a scatter-gun/pile-on aspect to this discussion, nē rā?
It is not scare mongering Robert. The mob was malevolent. I have read many personal accounts written by the women from LWS. The pregnant women who was trapped on the band rotunda, surrounded by an angry mob who were assaulting women and who were trying to get at Kellie Jae who knew if she fell down she would have been seriously injured, if not killed. She got out in one piece because of the stewards, mostly women, who were kicked, pushed, tripped up, spat at and had liquid thrown over them.
You can try and ridicule me, but it only shows how out of touch you are with what happened that day. How dare you
Well because she was walking home on her own and had a short skirt on so that's why she was…………….opps sorry.
She was attacked because a violent young thug attacked her. Stop blaming the victim Robert
"opps (sic) sorry"?
Right there, you've revealed your powerful bias, anker. You should declare a conflict of interest and retire from the debate, anger (intentional typo).
what bias are you referring to Robert?
I have no idea what you are talking about Robert.
Thansks for your suggestion that I should retire from the debate (sarc). I kind of like to make my own decisions about whether I shut up or keep talking.
You tell me. You're the one that brought it up.
Okay. Judith voluntarily left her post, involved herself with the standard-remover, unnecessarily, imo, poked and elbowed, imo, and attracted the attention of the assailant. No one else did that.
I absolutely condemn physical assault, mild or damaging.
Do you?
I don't believe women are responsible for men punching them.
Judith though, was responsible for pushing/poking/elbowing the fence-remover, yes?
Why do you say the woman who was pushed by JH, was the person who opened up the fence barrier – that it is not on the videos above (they both begin afterwards)?
different fence. JH pushed a woman who was removing a white, tape line and picket. You can’t really see it in the video above. One of the casualities of No Debate. I couldn’t easily find a better video. I know they exist because I’ve watched them a fair bit. But they’re on twitter and youtube in accounts I don’t know well enough to just grab.
"JH pushed a woman who was removing a white, tape line and picket."
Yeah, that one.
Although she pushed that person after the action, as that person was walking back, job done.
"JH pushed a woman…"
Yes, though it looked to me like, push, elbow-poke, yes?
And, thank you, weka. I’ve watched them a fair bit also.
One of many watershed moments for me Weka. Many males on the left must have been talking bullshit back in the day when they claimed to be standing up for women's rights
the thing I learned was that for some lw men, their support for women's rights and/or feminism is dependent upon the men agreeing with the thing women are going on about. When they disagree, the support for women and feminism goes. Thus women's rights is still a subset of men's politics. And then they wonder why so many women fell in behind KJK.
Not all left trans ally men, and definitely not all left wing men, but it was an eyeopener.
You're not "curious", you are gaslighting. You're minimising what happened, and patronising women here who are telling you, we are disgusted, frightened, feckin over TQ+ activists, the behaviour of the cops and the judiciary on this issue and we are not going silently.
I'm not merely "curious", Billie, nor am I minimising. I abhor violence; no one should be hit, shoved, poked, prodded, imo.
One of many watershed moments for me Weka. Many males on the left must have been talking bullshit back in the day when they claimed to be standing up for women's rights
You are spinning out, Anker. Keep to the actual matter. Put your thoughts forward, have them tested.
Robert you are digging yourself in deeper and deeper
Anker – I'd be digging for days before I got to where you are lodged!
I am lodged in biological reality Robert. There are only two sexes and you can't change your sex.
Telling children they might have born in the wrong body and that if their sex "assigned" at birth may be wrong. Rather than being a boy, they might actually have a gender identity which means they are really a boy. And as a boy who is really a girl its o.k. for them to use the girls toilets change rooms, enter girls competitions. etc etc. I would suggest that anyone who is lodged here is operating under a delusion.
That's pretty spinny, anger, given what the topic is here.
and yet some of us know exactly what anker is talking about, understand the thoughts she is expressing, and see them as not only pertinent to this conversation but essential.
Back them up with sound argument then.
I have been. For years.
Not tonight, it would seem.
In the shorter video coverage it looked like she was trying to get a poster off him, that was discussed here last March.
I'd not seen the longer video footage, which showed a different context, till now.
She seems to have wanted to preserve the original intent – counter-protestors behind the barrier fence, to keep the rotunda surround for those there to listen to speakers (if that was lost, the speakers would be drowned out by noise).
She gave a female a push back towards the fence. Then he moved to punch her. Then after being knocked back she moved forward towards him (my guess still in a I’ve got to do something mode at that point. And then he punched her twice more.
"She seems to have wanted to preserve the original intent – counter-protestors behind the barrier fence…"
Self-appointed Sheriff. Pushing the counter-protester, who was in no way interested in her, hmmmmm….
Given the female was only pushed, she was not under any threat.
Back in 1981 the protesters had marshalls, their job was to prevent confrontation with the public going to and from the games.
In the absence of police doing it, that is of some public purpose.
If the effort to keep separation between the two groups failed, as it did, the event would not go ahead as planned.
There is a difference between counter-protest and shouting down a speaking event.
The female who was pushed did not react in any way, other than tolerantly.
Yes?
Of course she wanted to preserve the "original intent – counter protestors behind the barrier fence". The women knew they were hopelessly out numbered, the counter protesters were making a defeaning noise and they had signs like "suck my lady dick c…t).and many of them were men including a 6' 6" drag queen who towered over everyone….and then they barged through the barrier……. Very hard to fathom why the Let Women Speak crowd where desperate to maintain the physical barriers between themselves the counter protester.s
Putting the fence back would preserve the "original intent", shoving, elbowing another person though, would not.
Perhaps though, you feel physical action; shoving etc. is all good, anker?
I
Hmmm
A bit like the old lady who resisted the police and got tasered to death
She should never have done that eh Robert?
Never mind about the strength differential , we are all trans now
It's not a bit like your manufactured story, Francesca. Let's keep to the actuals here.
Well actually the old lady (demented ) was approaching the police with a knife.
The response was disproportionate, given the size and strength differential.Thats exactly what we’re talking about.
A young man , who had not been personally threatened, bashing an elderly woman, not once, not twice, but three times .You, and all of us commenting(I hope) have seen the injury.Any corresponding injury on the girl you mentioned who was shoved or the young man ?
Ah, so the fence-remover wasn't visibly injured?
All good then. Nothing to see there.
that's a good point. Mostly I see Robert running diversion arguments here. Why talking about how the elderly woman was damaged when we can talk about another woman being pushed a couple of times.
ffs, weka!
If I am wrong, then explain your thinking and position and argument. This is exactly what happens when people don't. We engage with what we see and comment on it.
I've explained my point repeatedly and as clearly as humanly possible, imo.
Perhaps you could explain it in a different way then Robert? It sounds to me and maybe others although I can't speak for them, as though you're somehow saying she asked for it? Or that she is somehow responsible for the assault upon her, in other words victim blaming.
The reason it seems this way is because you keep bringing up her pushing someone away from her or poking them or something as if it is somehow relevant to the assault upon her by the man in question?
If that isn't the point you are trying to make then can you make it easier for people to understand what the point is that you're making here?
Sometimes it’s better to say exactly what you want to say so there is no misunderstanding rather than try and lead people to a ‘lightbulb’ moment where they suddenly make your argument for you without you saying it or they ‘see’ what it is you are meaning IMO.
Okay, thanks Michael.
"Perhaps you could explain it in a different way then Robert? It sounds to me and maybe others although I can't speak for them, as though you're somehow saying she asked for it?"
No, I am not saying that, nor do I believe that. Judith seems to have not interacted with the assailant at all. She did though, interact with the fence-remover who was walking back from gathering up the temporary fence.
"Or that she is somehow responsible for the assault upon her, in other words victim blaming."
No, she is not responsible at all for the assault. She did though, "argy bargy" the fence-remover. I'm supposing this action attracted the attention of the assailant.
"The reason it seems this way is because you keep bringing up her pushing someone away from her or poking them or something as if it is somehow relevant to the assault upon her by the man in question?"
Yes, I do. I believe it is, unless there's something I've missed: I asked myself, after watching the video many times, why the assailant chose Judith.
"If that isn't the point you are trying to make then can you make it easier for people to understand what the point is that you're making here?"
I have tried to be clear. I ought probably to bulk out my comments with disclaimers and statements about what I'm not saying. From my point of view, some here are leaping to conclusions and signing negative meanings to my observations and questions.
"Sometimes it’s better to say exactly what you want to say so there is no misunderstanding rather than try and lead people to a ‘lightbulb’ moment where they suddenly make your argument for you without you saying it or they ‘see’ what it is you are meaning IMO."
I agree, sometimes it is. Some people feel I'm trying to "gotcha" them by getting them to agree with one thing or other. This lack of faith frustrates me a lot. I'm not blaming anyone for this 🙂 Sometimes though, pithy one-liners are good value.Here's one:
"Explaining is losing" 🙂
Robert Guyton @ 8:44am
At risk of a pounding from your detractors on this matter, I skimmed through this thread last night and had no trouble understanding what you were trying to say.
There was imo fault on both sides. Of course the elderly lady was not deserving of what happened and the person responsible has been judged accordingly and has to pay her some compensation.
However the lady was clearly bringing attention to herself by tackling the person who pulled down the fence. Her supporters can be as pedantry as they like but, in a nutshell, that is what happened. Of course she was not to know there was a person who has behavioural problems associated with a mental disorder in the vicinity.
Unfortunately the elderly lady chose not to believe the circumstances around what followed. Yesterday, after the judge disclosed his findings, she is reported to have yelled out to the defendant "he was a little bastard and telling lies."
No judge is going to make a finding of ADHD and Autism (quite severe by the sounds of it) without thoroughly checking its veracity. While understanding what the lady has been through (having also had very traumatic experiences) that was not a suitable response and could be construed by some as disputing and disrespecting the judges findings.
I also note the defendant quickly recognised his behaviour was wrong. He has done many hours of community service already and undertaken further treatment for his disorders. You can't ask for more than that.
All good then Anne!
Please link to the support for this. Please do this before you make any other comments.
Well put Anne and I also agree Robert didn't appear to be victim blaming to me.
@ weka.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-posie-parker-protest-man-granted-discharge-without-conviction-after-punching-71-year-old-woman/RSV75S5IEBCHNNGYEH7V77BE2Q/
I did not have time to go digging out links – especially when they appeared to be all over the media yesterday. In such circumstances most people are well able to link themselves.
However one apparent error on my part: I thought she had made the statement directly to the defendant but she might have made it to the media. Doesn't make any difference to the inappropriateness of the statement.
[the quote you used isn’t in the link you have now supplied. I couldn’t find your quote when I googled yesterday. If you want to paraphrase then don’t use ” “.
I think you mislead in a number of ways, but that one is really not ok. We have a ‘link when you quote’ rule for good reasons. I’m sick of having to waste my time chasing you up on this pattern of yours.
If you don’t have time to link, then don’t comment until you do. I’m over using my time on this. Next time I see you do something like this, I will either just dump the whole comment in Trash and/or I will give you a short ban. Bans will increase each time. – weka]
mod note
Thank you, Anne and Red Blooded One. It's tough when The Standard turns into The Stroppery 🙂
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-posie-parker-protest-man-granted-discharge-without-conviction-after-punching-71-year-old-woman/RSV75S5IEBCHNNGYEH7V77BE2Q/
@SPC
"“You’re a lying little b******,” she said to him"
Such unprovoked violence. Where are the police and courts when you need them?
He must have been traumatised. Poor wee manlet.
Also from Anne's link:
"Hobson put out her hands to stop them and made contact with the opposing group.
The young man saw this and punched the 71-year-old three times in the head, believing she had assaulted a fellow counter-protester."
Views from commenters here about this are subjective opinions, imo.
weka: Anne wrote,
"he was a little bastard and telling lies."
and the link contained,
“You’re a lying little b******,” "
and while her use of quote marks isn't ideal, threatening Anne with a ban seems … harsh, don't you think, especially in light of her follow-up explanation.
@Molly
You would have thought a journalist might have asked her what she meant.
I replied pointing out I might have been in error about who the woman was speaking to. Is that not good enough for you? Here is the quote:
I took it – not unreasonably – to mean the lady in question was speaking directly to the defendant.
There was nothing in my comment that was unreasonable, My crime appears to be that I was "telling lies".
Edit: I see SPC has also linked to the quote.
[I’m no longer interested in trying to get you to comment within the rules. Ball is in your court. I encourage you to read this, because I’m past my limit of wasting my time on this https://thestandard.org.nz/moderation-notes-in-election-year/
– weka]
mod note.
The victim really ought to have "transitioned" before the trial. Only a declaration is needed. That way the woke overlords' system would have recognised her as a victim.
100% Billie
No wonder NZ has such terrible rates of family and sexual violence – there is always a man ready to excuse it based on something the victim did. You can remain unmolested as long as you stay in your place. Look at the repellent, pompous ass in this thread imagining he has something to impart about events, some rationale exists in his addled misogynist brain that means the perpetrator was only part of the reason punches landed on a woman’s face – a woman he doubtless knew wouldnt punch him back. Hopefully the next woman he hits has a haymaker like mine.
Billie, please dial back the abuse of another commenter please. Make the political points without the personal attack.
His gaslighting, his patronising, his "hmmmm", his calling the victim a "self appointed Sheriff" etc – is abusive.
that's not how it works here. You can name it as abuse if you want, but you may need to make an argument to support that. However another person being abusive doesn't mean you can be.
I'm asking you to dial back the abuse because otherwise there will be a flamewar, and the mods (of which I am one), will start banning people to prevent that getting out of control. Doesn't really matter what side they are on.
You have strong political arguments. Make them!
He likened being hit with being "prodded" – etc. That is extremely dangerous minimising and this mindset is why NZ is a world leader in abuse of women. He's taking a faux-socratic, patronising approach "Well [name of woman] comma, [the victim moved from her station not saying she should be hit but she did move] [pass-ag filler such as Yes? Nay? Prithee?] [name of woman] comma, " it's skin-crawling.
agree with all of that. Thanks for making the clear points.
weka – how could you "agree with all that" it's so clearly a misinterpretation/misrepresentation of what I've clearly described?
You have spent the evening trying to establish an equivalence between the woman being pushed and the woman being violently assaulted
I agree with this and it seems like standard progressive analysis. Feel free to make an argument against it.
I've pointed out before that you often fail to explain your thinking and instead rely on asking questions. I accept you think you've described things clearly, but unfortunately this is how it comes across. Clarifying thinking to people we are talking with is useful in debate. I find it more satisfying too.
I don't find it skincrawling. I think you are largely unversed in feminism and you present arguments that have long been explained by feminism as a problem for women and our rights eg that women assaulted are responsible for their assault.
No, Billie – the "prodding" was from Judith; she prodded/poked/pushed/elbowed the person who removed the tape fence.
Why, I don't know. Perhaps you could explain?
Billie, perhaps you might have a view on how the person who removed the standards might have felt when they were approached/pushed/prodded. If you were in that position, how might you have felt? After all, your only action involved removing a temporary fence.
From what I saw on the video, the remover barely reacted at all to the pushing.
"if you only action was to remove a temporary fence". Sounds innocent enough Robert. But actually that fence was the barrier between the baying mob and the peaceful women's group.
A number of women were assaulted at Albert Park. The wonderful women stewards who surrounded Posie and risked their physical integrity (they were punched and kicked, spat at) to save her life.
That fence was flimsy at best. Its removal was not a reason to poke/prod/elbow anyone.
Do you believe it was?
Look over here!!! Lets all get destracted by me pointing out a woman who prods another woman at a demo in the context of barriers……….
I'm not trying to distract, anger. It is possible, I believe, to discuss details of complex issues without an alterior motive such as wishing to distract.
agree with Anker here, the removal of that fence was pivotal in letting the protestors move into the area designated for LWS, turning into a mob and surrounding the band rotunda. My understanding is that this would have been obvious to the people on the ground, as was the absence of police who had said they would be there to maintain order.
weka – the person who removed the tape-fence was not deserving of being pushed/poked/elbowed, were they?
Or were they?
I don't think about it in terms of deserving, but you are the one arguing here that an elderly woman punch in the head unprovoked is somehow complicit in her own assault.
You seem really intent on getting people to talk about the pushing rather than punching in the head that led to what appears to be PTSD. That's why people are saying you are minimising the assault.
You appear to want to draw some equivalence between the two. I think they're apples and oranges.
"you are the one arguing here that an elderly woman punch in the head unprovoked is somehow complicit in her own assault."
No, I'm not!! You are assigning that to me.
I am asking, over and over, whether there is recognition that Judith poked/prodded/elbowed the fence-remover, or not.
No-one, including you, will address that simple point. Beyond that, we can talk.
Why the evasion????
In fact, I told you I recognised this 3 hours ago. Several times.
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-05-03-2024/#comment-1991703
The person who removed the tape/fence was facilitating an invasion of a space occupied by women who were entitled to be present in it unmolested. And the potential (later actual) invaders were a much more numerous mob which included a number of physically larger and stronger people carrying signs which proclaimed their extreme hostility for all to see. Anyone who was trying to prevent all that was unquestionably in the right.
"The person who removed the tape/fence was facilitating an invasion"
Nonsense. A tape fence is nothing more than a token. Anyone could have stepped through or over it.
Robert it was not a tape fence, whatever that is but a sturdy metal one of the type that can form an unbroken line when they are slotted togther onto lugs.
Okay, I retire, defeated.
There were two fences.
The one of tape – was intended to create a visual no-man's land between the metal barrier and the attendees of the LetWomenSpeak event. (See video below)
Some context:
https://youtu.be/Dos0FlaWIxM?si=UF6ncS5xVQ_p6MwU
thanks, excellent explainer.
I couldn't find the video, will be bookmarking.
Looking at the person pulling out the tape fence stakes, I'm wondering if that is in fact a man.
do you know what it says on the sign that the assaulter is carrying before he bunches Hobson?
It appears to say: "Go Home Posie".
It is on a Twitter thread that names him, so I've attempted to just post the image link:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHz082FbsAAGM7b?format=jpg&name=large
Yes I now realise Robert was talking about the rope fence inside the metal fence and closer to the band rotunda.
On this video, I have also linked to the longer version this morning, it is clear without doubt that the Police were not there, had retired and left the women alone & vulnerable to the press of the crowd at the very least and to the bashing, pushing and clunking with placards at worst.
There is no difference of opinion in the world that justifies citizens meting out violence on other citizens. NONE. There is no colour of right that says it is OK to bash and threaten if you perceive you are on the right side, whether or not all the handmaidens and media support this. NONE
As you know, my partner and daughter were there on the day.
No-one was attacking the men attendees. A curt, "Get out of here" from my partner to someone shouting through a megaphone in his ear, resulted in that protestor against women speaking, going somewhere else.
I have spoken to other women who attended that were targets of aggression and violence.
Thank you, Shangreah, I was " talking about the rope fence inside the metal fence and closer to the band rotunda".
I believe Judith Hobson also travelled several hundred km, by plane, in order to stop transgender people living their lives with dignity.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/nana-bashed-at-posie-parker-rally-outraged-over-sentence-of-her-young-attacker/IP644WFAENBM5CWUWSMJCZNVQA/
It is unlikely that this excursion was taken in the spirit of knowledge seeking and camaderie.
"I believe Judith Hobson also travelled several hundred km, in order to stop transgender people living their lives with dignity."
Why do you believe that? Is the idea of women speaking and listening an act of violence?
"It is unlikely that this excursion was taken in the spirit of knowledge seeking and camaderie."
On the contrary, this is the most likely scenario when you are speaking about older women rather than young men. Also when you take into further consideration the event format and intention, as opposed to the protest against women speaking and listening intention and misinformation.
Robert comma you know what my view is comma Robert comma yes/pass-ag patronising filler question mark Robert comma men who hit women should go to jail. And Robert comma that Robert is the only thing that matters about this incident comma Robert.
But knock yourself out dood (before a TRA does – after all everything is twanzfowbicke so even the hashtag bekind allies will get a good slapping eventually… The TQ+ movement will eat itself in the end (when it finishes eating crayons)
For god sake Robert. I am sure you are a well meaning person and good human being. You are just hopelessly barking up the wrong tree here and it is coming as the sort of questioning women have had to endure for centuries when it comes to violence and sexual violence.
The woman who got shuved by Judith is an absolute red herring. She may not have liked it or it may not havebothered her too much. She could have put a complaint to the police if she wanted to, but it appears she didn't. Many of us have been shoved a bit at protests especially if "terriortory" is being breached. I am not even sure it was deliberate by Judith, although it could have been.
The issue here is the violent repeated assault by a young man against an elderly women. Have you seen the photos of her bruises? Did you read about the injuries, physical and psychological?
You have failed to listen to the women on this site and their concerns about gender ideology and their sex based rights. You simply do not get it as a number of the men on this site.
"The woman who got shuved by … is an absolute red herring. She may know have like it or she may have not bothered about it"
Oh
my
goodness.
She may have been okay with the assault?
I rest my case.
your case appears to be this:
Hobson attracted the her serious physical assault by a man because she tried to stop the integrity of the boundaries around LWS.
The pushing of the woman trying to remove the fence is equivalent to the man punching the elderly woman repeatedly in the head.
Any other distraction that stops us talking about the man who violently assaulted the elderly women.
Wrong. Your summation of my argument is wrong.
I am not commenting on the assault upon Judith.
I am not drawing equivalence as you describe.
My question to you all is not intended as a distraction.
Weka, those "angles" are YOURS, not mine.
My question is simple and has no strings attached.
You, and others have attached those strings.
They are tying you down.
ok, but you still haven't explained what your argument is 🤷♀️
That would be one of the patronising bits. You sound like you think you are the wise one here and we don't know how limited we are.
Not wise, simple! My question was simple and unadorned.
Wise? Pfffft…
For there to be an assault there has to be intent. Did the elderly women push/poke the other person to cause her physical harm or to try and keep some sort of social order (perhaps so there wouldn't be greater harm)? To me it sounds like she was trying to keep social order by trying to maintain the integrity of the fencing rather than to cause harm. Was it the best way to do that – no – but then she's probably never been trained in what to do – and then things got way out of control – well beyond what she would be physically able to deal with anyway.
What was the young man's intent? It seem purposefully to cause harm and, with high levels of aggravation, because he hit her multiple times and because of the disparity between the two physically.
@mpledger. Spot on, the counter demonstration was there to stop the initial demonstration/event or whatever it my be described as.
I would have thought that for the “granny basher” being part of a counter demonstration and using violet action to shut down a event like this would have been considered a aggravating factor in sentencing.
"For there to be an assault there has to be intent. Did the elderly women push/poke the other person to cause her physical harm or to try and keep some sort of social order…"
Are you making a joke?
Push/poke is push/poke. I suspect the only defence in law would be self-preservation/defense, but please prove me wrong.
If a kid chases a ball towards the road and an adult grabs the kid to stop him running onto the road – is that assault or is that physical contact to avert risk of an accident? Intent is important.
It's like the Japanese subway – they have marshals to push people into carriages so that the doors can close when they are overfill. There is obvious physical contact but it's not considered assault because the intent is to be helpful, there is no intent to harm.
100% Billie
Peters and Hipkins agree there is a need for new planes
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350201248/humiliating-embarrassing-luxon-pushed-upgrade-military-gear
Don't even know where to start with this reply LoL.
I suppose we could start with the Labour Alliance Coalition cancelling the Option for 8 J's Model C130's in the early 2000's and kicking the can down the Rd with a stupid SLEP that didn't really address any of the major issues on the Aircraft but systems/ avionics instead of Engineering & Airframe which nearly fell over because of the age of the RNZAF C130 Fleet even back then LoL.
Or we look at the FAMC Business Case that the NZDF & MoD took to Cabinet in the final 12-18mths of the last National Government?
Where Mr Key, Bling & Treasury did their collective Nana over the costs of replacing both the C130's & B757's while at same time Business Case for the P3 Replacement had been or was about to be approved.
Against the advice of the NZDF & MoD the FAMC was split up, the C130 replacement was approved but going from 8 Model's to 5 Models while the telling Military & MoD to come back in +6yrs time because according to Treasury there was still plenty of life left in the B757's even though the RNZAF/ Military uses them rather differently to your bog standard Airline/ Cargo Operator.
So fast forward to 6yrs, so here we are again FFS!
Poor Chippy had issues in his final 18mths of Government with B757's, could've he ordered the replacements?
Yes, but in light what has happened with a number of Government of contracts atm, they probably would've got chopped?
The other issue was the forthcoming DWP & DCP now out in June not September as originally planned. Had Chippy ordered the B757 replacement, may've equipment upset the delicate funding for other Major NZDF & MoD Infrastructure & Capital Equipment Replacement/ Upgrades.
So my assumption, which I believe was the correct one, if that was decision by the last Labour Govt was to wait for the new DWP & DCP to be released and go form there.
Now weather this Government does this?
Is how long, is a piece of string or more correctly how long is the rope to hang themselves IRT to their talk of Defence Cuts (NZDF Budget 6.5% cut & MoD 7.5% cut) while increasing funding to the NZDF & MoD Budgets etc amongst word pasta they said to the Australian's recently?
Just to note on the proposed Defence Budget Cuts by National, the NZDF 6.5% cuts does actually mean cuts to NZDF capabilities btw because their nothing else left to cut.
1st on the list is the Seasprites, Karman has pulled out of the Helicopter Business, so the spare parts are becoming tight & NZDF was only meant to get 15yrs out of them which getting close to that mark or may even be over that 15yr period now?
Treasury is sniffing hard around wanting to contract out the RNZAF's Pilot & Air Crew Training syllabus to the Private Sector! Which hasn't worked in the UK or in Canada btw & has been a complete shit fight resulting in a massive shortage of Pilots etc!
Not sure what can be cut in the Navy atm, but they would highly effected by the grounding of the Seasprites across all its Helicopter capable ships.
So during the reign of Queen Liza, Elizabeth II, there were a lot of holes in a lot of buckets.
History Reprise – Henry founder of the English navy, grandfather of Elizabeth 1, was married to Elizabeth of York – rightful Queen of he realm.
The failure to join the Oz buy of Hercules was a mistake by Labour 2000, surprising since they could have rationalised a priority on transport to explain the loss of the fighter wing.
Then 2017-2023 Labour could have funded the B757 replacement and Orion to Poseidon.
Thus with the ANZAC's and LAV's of the 1999-2008 era they could have said they did all the heavy lifting on defence funding.
At the moment with National's focus on funding partners, one wonders what will be on the new transport planes (Fly Emirates maybe – taking the Americas Cup sponsorship to new off the ground and sea foil levels). Or Trump Premier House (depending on 2024 results).
The debate at the moment is over whether we can retain inter-operability if outside AUKUS Pillar 2.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/508926/aukus-a-military-pact-designed-to-contain-china-says-labour
Yes not buying the J's in the 2000's would've freed up alot money atm to replace the B757's, but as you said reorientation the NZDF to towards a more sustainable UN Peacekeeping/ Peace Enforcement Defence Force but the Labour Alliance Coalition didn't considering 3/4's of the NZDF was involved with Peacekeeping Mission in Timor Leste since 99.
The Labour Alliance Coalition couldn't even be bothered to fund the NZDF Lesson Learnt's from that Operation as well unlike Oz so much for their stupid word salad from the Coalition at the time which the punters took hook line & sinker but Military LoL.
Also speaking of the Labour Govt under Chippy according the Australian Senate committee hearing. Andy Little also appears to have given the NZDF & MoD in principle the to a fact finding mission to buy lock stock & barrel the entire MRH90's that were grounded here in Oz in wake of recent HADR events in NZ & the forecast Natural Disasters in NZ. But apparently it went cold at Cabinet Level back in NZ, even though the NZDF was successful when the brought the ex RAN Seasprites for $250m 15 odd yrs ago.
This could very will bite someone in the ass in the near future, as the last HADR event in NZ near broke the NZDF in more ways than one. As the servicing of the 8 NH90's is still behind schedule & doesn't like it will be cleared until May atm. Heck even extra 4 NH90's will give the NZDF some redundancy & make the Fleet more sustainable (Rise Train Sustain).
There was a NZDF/ MoD Capabilities Team at the recent Singapore Airshow & I believe they spent a bit of time in the Airbus tent LoL.
Which isn't strange because the new hangers at Ohakea are designed to take the A400's & A330 MRTT's btw.
I am not surprised they are looking at Airbus, Boeing rep has gone down – the Poseidon plane being one of the last of pre merger standard (decline in production quality since).
Taking on MRH90's (ex Dec 2024) would have kept Oz happy and been useful in the climate change era as to relief after floods etc (that and no coastal shipping development means another "infrastructure" capability vulnerability).
Boeing has always going to shit ever since they merged McD, as McD is management systems have to be some of the stupid ideas going around at the time & Boeing was Engineering Safety focus.
Boeing's current Management Team is all Ex McD and yet they can't work out what's wrong with Boeing LoL!
Airbus has a lot of flexibility across it's fixed wing fleet, the RAAF has the MRTT's, Malaysia has the A400's in a Strategic Airlift & Tanker Role.
I'm hoping some NZ based Journalists would do a FOI or whatever it's called in NZ about the NZDF & MoD along with Andy Little making inquires IRT to buying the entire ADF MRH90 Fleet only for Cabinet to knock it back.
Would like to understand the reasons why?
Was it Political,
Was it Treasury,
Or something else?
Awww. I have a soft spot for Finn and U2. Don't Dream it's Over. Should be the anthem of our times.
U2 & Neil Finn Don’t Dream It’s Over live at Sphere Las Vegas – 2024-03-02 – U2gigs.com
https://youtu.be/W6Svx2AgWuU?si=kIl4UnXByawCSIa_
Aah..!..music criticism…
I note your 'soft' spot for finn..
Most appropriate…given how 'soft' his music is..
With that ditty being a benchmark of that'soft'…(and one that has me leaping for the dial..happy to never hear again..too mawkish/treackly for my tastes..)
As as for u2…?…they too have softened over the years ..so the meeting of the two works on the 'soft' scale ..
But listenable..?..no…no..!
I don't listen to U2 now, but their earlier work was a major dance track to my youth. Plus politics for the masses!
Like how early split enz were brilliant/envelope-pushing…(and still hold up well..)
(First saw them @ auckland uni cafe…very early on…)
And crowded house was the culmination of n. Finn sucking the life out of the enz…with his oh so soft-rock…
I am not diabetic…but n.finn gives me a sugar overload/spike..
Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs
And what's wrong with that?
😉
James taylor..Carol king..
Nothing wrong with 'soft' per se..
They both..and many others.. wrote love songs… brilliant..!..both of them ..
But n.finn is from the dark-side..
Sent here to kill good music .
I'm also a fan of the Style Council. Although I gather Weller was a bit of a dick when he left the Jam.
Luv the jam..luv the style council..
My best boast-concert..?
James brown..@ the apollo..up in harlem…
He hadn't played n.y. for about five years..
Audience 85% african american..15% other..
Everyone dressed up to the nines…
I walked into the men's room..to find a half a dozen african-american women jostling around a large silver tray..with a large spiral of cocaine on it..
I apologized… thinking I was in the wrong room..
They heard my accent..and thrust the tray at me..
And a good time was had by all..
And j.brown lifted the roof on the apollo…to about the wildest audience reaction I have ever experienced….
It was quite the nite…
Yeah, the music section.
This weekend gone I saw 3 bands in 3 cities. (CC activists look away).
Due to not paying attention to dates I said yes to a gig in Aucks while committed to gigs in and around Wellies.
Friday night Queens of the Stone Age at TSB. Fantastic trip through their career, Jon Theodore on drums a highlight for me. 60% boys 40% girls.
Sat night at Auckland Town Hall, Dinosaur Jr. Very loud (only lasted an hour in the auditorium, had to retreat to the bar). Finished with their cover of Cure's Just like heaven. 70% boys 30% girls.
Due to Jet 'might get you there' Star arrived at Hutt Sounds in time to see Human League. Dare was one of my first records. Great set, finished with Don't you want me? and then for an encore Being Boiled and Electric dreams. Lots of costume changes. 60%girls 40% boys.
Home at midnight with a rotation of earworms cycling through. Very happy.
ACT for once is in agreement with (most) sentiments expressed on this thread:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/act-blasts-sentence-for-man-who-punched-71yo-woman-at-posie-parker-protest/ar-BB1jkskx?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=78f5e12238d04a5d947f84f422b24f0a&ei=9
It's not for once, unfortunately.
Cannot bear to watch channel 31 anymore as the nationals gang conduct yet another assault on the poor and reason itself. It is just too hard on my sensibilities to endure these horrible people making excuse after excuse to fracture the social contract and beat up on the poor. They are Adam Smiths "vile maxim" personified writ large!