Daily review 21/10/2020

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, October 21st, 2020 - 52 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

52 comments on “Daily review 21/10/2020 ”

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  1. Robert Guyton 1
    21 October 2020 at 5:57 pm

    James Shaw: "I think people think politics is more transactional than it is…"

    Yes, indeed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300138697/election-2020-will-they-wont-they-greens-insist-negotiations-still-on-with-labour

    • weka 1.1
      21 October 2020 at 6:15 pm

      Relational 🙂

      • Grafton Gully 1.1.1
        21 October 2020 at 7:16 pm

        What do "transactional" and "relational" mean politically ? Shaw is dreaming if he thinks that conversations with a party that has just won a majority of seats in parliament will bring him the power that voters have just denied him. The Green Party kaupapa makes no sense to me – finite world ? Bullshit – look skywards on a clear night. "Human beings are part of the natural world" – a world where evolution by natural selection operates. And where is the "just distribution of social and natural resources" in that ? They would be more honest rebranding as the Abolish Poverty in Aotearoa Party. That's where the kaupapa really lies – take from the rich and give to the poor and sustainably enforce the taking !

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1
          21 October 2020 at 7:21 pm

          Is there an endless vein of gold on the planet, Grafton Gully?

          Is there no end to the fish in the sea?

          Is the supply of dodo unlimited? Hang on…

          Evolution has produced something remarkable; humans, capable of wresting evolution from the non-human world and shaping it how they/we will. And we are doing just that. How should we plot our path? Leave it to the soul-less corporations? Let it roll as it will? The Greens have ideas about managing human behaviour from here on in.

          • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.1
            22 October 2020 at 12:19 am

            Is there an endless vein of gold on the planet,

            For the foreseeable purposes of humanity, mineral resources are not the limiting factor IF we have access to the energy to recycle what we already have.

            Is there no end to the fish in the sea?

            The crucial step toward decoupling human impact on the environment is to grow our own food using systems that do not rely on harvesting wild resources. In terms of fish, the solution is aquaponics.

            Is the supply of dodo unlimited?

            99.9% of all species that ever lived on planet Earth are extinct. Adapt or perish. This rule applies to humans as well.

          • Stephen D 1.1.1.1.2
            22 October 2020 at 10:02 am

            This always gives me hope.

            https://youtu.be/Wy7Q6wazD_E

        • weka 1.1.1.2
          21 October 2020 at 8:20 pm

          Transactional would be "I want to be Minister of X, therefore I'm going to do Y deal with Labour" (i.e. there's a transaction, I guess in this case based on perceptions of leverage, in other situations it might be rhetoric around voter support eg NZF's line).

          Relational would be "Labour and the Greens have a strong working relationship now, how can we work together within that relationship to advance our shared goals?"

          Shaw didn't no transaction, he said it's not as transactional as people think.

          Cutting edge politics (and science for that matter) recognises that the universe is held together by the relationships between people (and things). Capitalism and the patriarchy say that transaction is king (hence we have king makers in politics, those that can wield leverage and power monger). Deep green, indigenous, eco feminist etc politics say that the relationships matter more than the power over others. It's basically the position that will save the planet.

          The only way that humans can make use of the material part of the universe outside of Gaia, is with Gaia's help. Finite world (Gaia) in terms of space, time, physical things and the relationships between them. There's only so much high tech metals to make space ships out of.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.3
          21 October 2020 at 8:30 pm

          Intelligence breaks natural selection. It, quite simply, no longer applies.

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.2
        21 October 2020 at 7:23 pm

        We'll soon know…

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    21 October 2020 at 5:59 pm

    A strong Green/Labour collaborative arrangement will be a body-blow to the Right.

    I'm expecting to hear yelps of pain 🙂

    • Muttonbird 2.1
      21 October 2020 at 6:42 pm

      The effort they are putting into claiming rural votes were not a vote for Labour but a vote against the Greens is a joy to behold.

      Putting words in the mouths of people who are usually loyal to them but weren't this time is quite desperate.

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.1
        21 October 2020 at 7:06 pm

        The awesome power of the Greens: forcing Deep Blue Farming Nats to vote Labour!

        Turning the world on its head!

        Go Greens!

      • Anne 2.1.2
        21 October 2020 at 7:19 pm

        It's so irrational! They are claiming the rural vote knew the precise outcome of the election before it even took place. They're in full denial. Can't accept the average voter was rewarding Jacinda in particular for the way she responded to three tumultuous years and most of all for her and Dr Bloomfield's calming and competent Covid response.

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.2.1
          21 October 2020 at 7:22 pm

          yes

        • Matiri 2.1.2.2
          21 October 2020 at 7:45 pm

          I live in a National voting farming community that has shifted to Labour this election and those that did not vote Labour, voted Act. Fully agree with your comment Anne, that is exactly what I am hearing too, plus National was considered unfit to govern in these difficult times.

          [Fixed minor error in user name]

    • Alan 2.2
      21 October 2020 at 7:31 pm

      I am expecting you will be disappointed

      • Muttonbird 2.2.1
        21 October 2020 at 7:37 pm

        Love it how RWNJs are suddenly flocking to Jacinda Ardern asking her to save them from the evil Greens.

        smiley

  3. Herodotus 3
    21 October 2020 at 7:03 pm

    So to create a fair tax system we add another high earner tax bracket for those earning over $180k

    yet the average house in Auckland has increased by the same value and is not taxed? More so for those who own rentals with this lotto bonus. So how is that going to help in creating a fair society ?

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      21 October 2020 at 7:14 pm

      Whatever makes you think that capitalism is any fair?

      Capitalism is about making sure the rich get to bludge heavily off of everyone else through owning and restricting access to what everyone needs.

      • Herodotus 3.1.1
        21 October 2020 at 9:29 pm

        "Capitalism is about making sure the rich get to bludge heavily off of everyone else through owning and restricting access to what everyone needs." and doesn't a government ensure that what is needed to ensure that there is a functioning society is put in place and that there is a system to pay for this that is "FAIR" and reasonable. What is currently in place and proposed places the burden on only 1 subset. Nothing about businesses contributing yet they want a stable economic environment, educated workforce etc yet not pay for it ? or where other income is derived from to contribute ? i.e Broaden tax base ???

  4. Muttonbird 4
    21 October 2020 at 7:23 pm

    Why is Phil Twyford doing digital billboards thanking voters post election?

    I drove through the intersection of Lincoln Rd and Universal Drive today and there's a huge billboard with Phil beaming at the poor of West Auckland from a $10-$20K billboard position thanking them for voting for him. Did he not spend all his money on the campaign itself. :?

    He might have had a major effect in opposition and probably helped change the government more than anyone apart from Jacinda Ardern in 2017, but since then he has been terrible, and he continues to be terrible. I am not afraid to admit that.

    Kiwibuild; hard to do but as Ricardo Menendez March says, much more work should have been done to make those homes accessible to working families. Much more uptake if more people were allowed to buy them.

    Auckland airport rail; what a nightmare of very expensive competing reports. He seems to have no idea how to run a tender and no idea what the vision should be. Find out what you want then do the tender, not the other way round you moron.

    And now he's taking out 5 figure digital billboards in order to build his personal brand on Universal Drive, the entry point to Ranui and Swanson, the very poorest parts of West Auckland.

    Wanker.

    • Anne 4.1
      21 October 2020 at 7:36 pm

      How do you know whether a benefactor didn't pay for it? And it may be a big billboard but $10-20K? Way too high imo. As for the rest… well that is a matter of opinion. Yep, he made some bad mistakes with his rhetoric but that's the nature of the man. I'm sure he's learnt the error of his ways. Time will tell.

      • Muttonbird 4.1.1
        21 October 2020 at 7:43 pm

        Sorry, Anne. I just don't think he's any good at all. 4/5ths of the pain Labour felt this last term were in his portfolios. I don't think he's up to the job and doing digital billboards promoting his own brand confirms his priorities for me.

        Mickysavage will know Phil well. I wonder what he thinks…

        • ianmac 4.1.1.1
          21 October 2020 at 8:44 pm

          The aim was to build 50,000 Kiwibuild houses. Annette King said no lets say 100,000 house because it had a better ring to the number. Had they just aimed to build as many houses as they could, there would be little blame and Phil would not have been hung out to dry.

          Moral is to avoid numbering goals because the Opposition just uses numbers to bash the Government. (Key was much more cunning and gave no numbers about how many houses they would build, let alone admit there was a crisis. Sneaky lot!)

    • Devo 4.2
      21 October 2020 at 8:48 pm

      Greg O'Connor was doing the same long before the election period began. Big vanity billboard at the bottom of the Ngauranga Gorge

    • Ad 4.3
      21 October 2020 at 11:01 pm

      Nothing wrong with thanking voters. By billboard or otherwise.

      How it was funded will come out int he campaign expenses, which are published and open for scrutiny.

      Most MPs just get elected and fly down the next day and start the $160k salary without a word of thanks to anyone but their partners.

    • Sabine 4.4
      22 October 2020 at 12:26 pm

      Todd McClay has a bill borad up in Rotorua thanking those that got him in .

      Maybe they are all wankers 🙂

  5. Muttonbird 5
    21 October 2020 at 8:47 pm

    Somewhere, a sailor waits.

    This is the refrain from some seasoned Standard commenters on the pain certain yachties felt, unable to moor their floating mansions in cheap NZ waters because of Covid.

    Two weeks later another outbreak comes through NZ ports and shipping.

    It's pretty easy to demand open access for hard done by recreational and lifestyle boaties from the comfort of suburban Brisbane, but for the people of NZ who are affected by outbreaks at the sea border it is very serious, emotionally and economically.

    • RedLogix 5.1
      21 October 2020 at 11:59 pm

      from the comfort of suburban Brisbane

      Bad assumption. One of us spent last night cleaning a ship hull at anchor in a 2m swell. 20hr shift buster. This vessel is heading to NZ soon, and a clean hull keeps our coastal waters free of bio-fouling pest species. Say thank you.

      As for the 'floating mansion' crack, you really are an ignorant twat. Most of these boats are actually worth less than a typical Auckland house, and a good deal smaller. Life for a cruiser has it's rewards, but you work for it.

      unable to moor their floating mansions in cheap NZ waters

      And again the deliberate misrepresenting lie. Objectively of all the people who are arriving here already, these people who will have to do effectively two quarantines back to back, are the lowest possible risk.

      As for the 'cheap anchoring' thing … the cost of anchoring really isn't the issue here.

      Two weeks later another outbreak comes through NZ ports and shipping.

      Yachties are in a completely different scenario to people working commercial ships which have much shorter transit times. Many of those people are working to very tough rules:

      Wayne Turner is the master of Capitaine Tasman, a container ship that sails between Mount Maunganui, Auckland, Noumea, Suva and Lautoka – making a 17-day round trip.

      New Zealand, Noumea and Fiji are all countries without community transmission of the virus.

      Turner said effectively the crew were in constant isolation.

      "You've got people that are basically in prison. They can't depart the vessel, they can't go for a walk, get fresh air, they can't get off the vessel.

      "It needs to be managed so that people can have those basic human rights, provided that [they] take appropriate action, they need to be able to get off the vessel, stretch their legs, [get] fresh air, change of scene.

      "Just the normal stuff you need for psychological wellbeing, it is worse than being in prison," he said.

      Crew were also not allowed ashore in Fiji or Noumea, so they were trapped on board, Turner said.

      "We don't get any leave at all and no visits.

      "It is pretty inhumane what seafarers are having to face and for no real reason. It's a lack of understanding on the part of the powers-that-be as to the real risks that exist, which are negligible, if at all."

      Turner said while crew must wear PPE gear at all times while on the deck in port and can be fined if they do not, stevedores coming on board to load or discharge cargo, do not have to.

      "If I go on deck while in port in New Zealand, if Customs see me [not wearing PPE gear] I can be liable for a fine of up to $2000.''

      He said all of the 18 crew, including himself, have their temperatures taken twice a day and it is logged.

      "We have no contact with the external world effectively."

      Turner said as a New Zealander he had been Covid tested and isolated for the past two months. He was not able to leave the ship nor visit his Mount Maunganui home, family or friends and they could not visit him.

      "Home is basically 2-3 kilometres away."

      'The government is just not interested'

      Some other crew members have not been ashore since March.

      "It's pretty inhumane to have been on board from March without having been able to step off the vessel at any stage."

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428037/covid-19-rules-for-ship-crew-it-s-worse-than-being-in-prison

      Unless you've worked in these sorts of remote locations you probably won't appreciate just how difficult this is. There are tens of thousands of people working all over the globe under extraordinary pressure, just to maintain the ordinary flow of trade and goods that make your 'safe suburban life' possible.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1
        22 October 2020 at 11:22 am

        Objectively of all the people who are arriving here already, these people who will have to do effectively two quarantines back to back, are the lowest possible risk.

        And we still don't have any responsibility for them unless they're NZers. They chose the lifestyle that put them in the position that they're in knowing that it came with risk.

        "It is pretty inhumane what seafarers are having to face and for no real reason. It's a lack of understanding on the part of the powers-that-be as to the real risks that exist, which are negligible, if at all."

        Those negligible risks just resulted in more confirmed cases in NZ.

        There are tens of thousands of people working all over the globe under extraordinary pressure, just to maintain the ordinary flow of trade and goods that make your 'safe suburban life' possible.

        And that shows the problem of being trade dependent.

    • Stuart Munro 5.2
      22 October 2020 at 7:12 am

      You don't compare the risk to NZ particularly well.

      Boats typically crewed by three to six people, spending generally a month or more in isolation in transit, present a low risk of Covid.

      A BATM carries a crew of around 80 people, a large enough confined population to cycle Covid in the way the cruise ships did, becoming in effect large incubators.

      The slave ships are an extreme form of externalising costs, and the cost in terms of Covid risk to NZ has already proven to be much greater than would be presented by the yachts coming here.

      You might wonder why such an invidious practice has continued for four decades, aided and abetted by corrupt governments instead of following NZ labour laws like any other business. I have certainly never seen a credible explanation, apart from The two most abundant materials in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. ~ Harlan Ellison. Inevitably the government is now investing in hydrogen also – fml.

      • greywarshark 5.2.1
        22 October 2020 at 10:40 am

        An important interview with Dr Michael Baker on Radionz this morning about Covid-19 and NZ. I had to search through the audios for this, it wasn't featured above as important news.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018769516/new-covid-fears-in-auckland 19 mins Today 9.08am
        Sir David Skegg, is an epidemiologist at the University of Otago Medical School and former chairman of the Public Health Commission, Health Research Council and New Zealand Science Board.
        He's concerned at the levels of general complacency reflected at both public and government agency level.

        and – Today on Morning Report at 8.15 am.
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018769501/covid-19-epidemiologist-on-positive-case-s-visit-to-pub
        Aucklanders who were at a packed pub on Auckland's North Shore on Friday night are being told to stay home, and get a Covid-19 test as soon as possible.
        It has emerged that an infectious person visited the Malt pub in Greenhithe between 7.30pm and 10pm Friday night.
        The Ministry of Health says anyone there during this time should get tested and stay in isolation until they get a negative result.

        Michael Baker is a Professor of public health and an epidemiologist.

        I am convinced after listening to these professionals that the government should be making it mandatory for masks to be worn on planes and also buses, and no bloody argumentation. They are a good step to take in limiting the spread of the virus, and people have gone right away from doing anything to be precautionary. I go to the supermarket and never see blokes going near the hand sanitising machine – easy to use. But I think to most that's not a male thing – it's women who fuss about cleanliness and prissiness. So they won't do things till it is The Rule.

        And these intelligent, trained, wise professionals note that the Russian seamen are being put in isolation – well pretty much isolated. Two to a room, which means the whole purpose of isolation is undermined, and in 14 days they won't be sure that the tests indicate a full clear period for the disease to show BECAUSE IT MUST BE A TIME AWAY FROM ALL OTHER PEOPLE. How does our MoH and Director allow such shoddy stuff to go on. We can only maintain our near-free status by adopting the right protocols and turn those into absolute procedures. These fishermen need to be put in separate rooms and the 14 day isolation starting again.

        It was mentioned that the doubling up in the isolation hotel might have been a cost-saving measure by the fishing company. Well if our ruling is that the men should be separated completely, the company should be complying!
        Assert yourself NZ authorities, this is where we need that sovereignty that spineless governments have been so willing to sign away in favour of promised prosperity.

        And it was reiterated that PPE – protective clothing for workers doesn't prevent disease, just provides some protection.

  6. Ed 6
    21 October 2020 at 9:33 pm

    Community case visited a pub in Greenhithe for 2 and 1/2 hours. sad

    Doesn't look good.

    Infectious Covid-19 case visited Auckland pub on Friday night

    A wake up call for everyone. Use the COVID App!

    Urgent Care Clinics

    • North Shorecare Smales Farm Smales Farm 74 Taharoto Road, Takapuna, open 24 Hours
    • Shorecare Northcross 948 East Coast Road, Northcross Mon-Sun 8am – 8pm
    • East Care 260 Botany Road, Golflands Open 24 Hours
    • Takanini Urgent Care 106 Great South Road, Takanini Mon-Sun 8am-8pm
    • Counties Urgent Care (Papakura) 6-18 O'Shannessey Street, Papakura Mon-Sun 8am-10pm
    • Urgent Care Franklin 149 Manukau Road, Pukekohe Mon-Sun 8am-8pm
  7. Robert Guyton 7
    21 October 2020 at 9:46 pm

    "Early anecdotal analysis of voting behaviour reveals that many National voters voted Labour and Greens to prevent the shambolic National Party from getting anywhere near Government."

  8. I Feel Love 8
    22 October 2020 at 6:40 am

    Best comment I've read on the whole election. Cheers for the laugh!

  9. greywarshark 9
    22 October 2020 at 10:43 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428917/cost-to-reinstate-christ-church-cathedral-goes-up-by-50m

    I would imagine this would only be the first increase for this restoration. It is not the Notre Dame. We should have something more modern and innovative to meet the heartfelt needs of the 21st century but no, cling on to the old. Look up at the steeple, not down to the people.

  10. greywarshark 10
    22 October 2020 at 10:44 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/428807/building-support-for-transformational-policies-crucial-to-labour-s-vision-jessica-berentson-shaw

    ? What is this journo like as far as reasoned thought goes? The heading strikes a good note with me.

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