Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
(the deserving poor and the undeserving poor)
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context.
a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
There is a difference between the person and what they did.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
Webb said the family arrived into New Zealand from Brisbane on 21 July, with the funeral of the children's father due to take place today.
"Upon arrival they requested an exemption to spend time with a family member and a recently deceased close relative, and attend the funeral. This request was declined as the health risk was deemed too high at that point in time, noting they had not yet conducted a day 3 test.
Webb said the family tested negative for Covid-19 after the results from their first test came back mid to late afternoon yesterday.
"At 6.15pm last night the family were contacted by my team and were advised we were actively considering their application, and doing everything we could to support it. They were made aware that the application process was looking positive, and that they would be given a decision by 8pm last night."
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family.
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
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Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
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Jacqui Dean – Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (as the disgraced Keeping Stock was want to say)
They’re not very good with bigly numbers, are they?
Or owning up to bullsh*tting.
She's been at the dihydrogen monoxide, again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171213085925/http:/www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/38005/National-MP-falls-victim-to-water-hoax
Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
Bingles had his turn. Needs to shut up now and let the next generation get on with it.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
Link, Paddy?
Just saw this with the post lag time.
Parody, not a quote hence no speech marks.
Valedictory speeches are all subsequently printed after speeches, including actions such as having tissues, on Hansard at https://www.parliament.nz .
You use the database search on Hansard.
I do not miss Morrisey's fake transcripts one bit either.
Morrisey ?? I don’t know what that means Sacha did you mean
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122292806/sir-bill-english-warns-businesses-to-prepare-for-wshaped-downturn?cid=app-android
Please provide a link with the post next time.
This will take a 10 minute lag to post.
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
So to be a Standardista one has to fit the mould and one must write in a conformed manner?
Zàijiàn, zhù nǐ chéng gōng.
Goodbye and go well in your endeavours
Eh? Supplying a link is hardly a big ask. Grow up.
You are a link demanding bore . Time and technical problems stops some of us
Eeerch, every other day the link monitor is hassling someone .
Sacha where you a parking warden in a past life?
Paddy quoted, so he already had the page open. If quoting there has to be a link.
There's enough leeway here for tech and time issues, people can make that clear, but I don't think that was the problem here 😉
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
one would hope that Morrissey wouldn't be so stupid as to comment while banned, which is a permanent ban offence.
Huh?? AFAIK, he’s not banned!?
I don't believe Paddy is a sockpuppet. Did not realise Morrissey had been banned again.
Moz ain't banned. Observer Tokoroa recently had a month off and I'm guessing PaddyOT and him may be related.
You reckon? 😀
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
The grandkid and grandkids alive and well thanks.
http://garagecollective.blogspot.com/2014/05/fighting-war-anarchists-wobblies-and.html?m=1
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00093/100-years-of-anarchism-in-new-zealand-celebrated-today.htm
Similarity in times of 'crisis' .
If you can't cope with the basics of online discussion, I recommend talkback radio.
Wow!
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018757278/i-was-panicking-mother-explains-escape-from-isolation
Edit, when I started writing this it was 1/2 past 6 and no comments.
Your sympathy is welcome and noted. The ‘hardliners’ won’t be swayed though and will still demand swift and harsh punishment without compassion 🙁
I am sharing a lounge with one of those hardliners.
Hearing that the family was wearing masks and the son in Auckland was wearing a mask when caught, changed my view of the story.
Her side was a little inconsistent though she made a reasonable case (assuming her side was reasonably accurate which is by no means a given)
Equally, we've only had the state's version as gospel till now.
True enough although Id suggest the states version is viewed with suspicion by default…as said her version had some inconsistencies
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
Yes, entirely conditional on them not endangering others with their selfishness.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
No, its not.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
The context in which their actions took place is where compassion can arise.
No, not really. In context its:
Their dad died, oh dear, how sad, never mind.
I don't have any compassion for any one who wilfully endangers others just because they feel hurt.
Draco T Bastard
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
In other words DTB, you're right, compassion is subjective . No one gives a fuck if it doesn't reward themselves.I better cite that too. https://genius.com/Eminem-white-america-lyrics
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– false negatives are a thing
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
Your 1 hour and 45 mins is predicated on the state not failing to meet it's own deadline. Something it had already done several times.
Also that hindsight you are using is 20/20 vision. Not something available to this family at the time.
What was available to the family at the time was that they knew that they weren't allowed out.
What's so hard to understand about that?
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
And?
This may come as a surprise but that's not our problem. Having a pandemic is.
Yes – pandemic.
Yes. That's why they were in isolation.
Nope. Simply logic and what is required of us when there's a pandemic happening.
Nope.
Yep. The emotions are plentiful: "Fuck ’em." "Fuck her."
And?
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Great job RNZ, you fucking idiots.
It's late.
Time for bed.
Nighty night.
100% draco…………I have no sympathy for anyone absconding, whatever their circumstances
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
They didn't need to go to the funeral.
They didn't need to see the body.
Society did need them in quarantine to help protect from a deadly disease so that we didn't have so many more funerals.
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
That dicking around call you in an hour kicking the can down the road crap is just so DHB.
Especially when it sounds like all the other ducks were in a row: police, security military, transport…
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
Sad and true, Anne – and still widely prevalent. They seem to dig their heels in instead of opening their minds..
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Perhaps Woodhouse gained his copies from someone other than Boag.
That is not what an investigator doing their job does – ever.
Someone fire him and ask for our money back.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
Will the privacy commissioner check to see if Boag sent the email to anyone else?
If this is not going to happen, not good enough.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
Don't cart his kids off to Australia in the first place?
Hardliner I'm picking there, my sooty friend.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
Fuck ’em.
Did you listen to her?
Nope. And I won't. Surprised she gets the air time, frankly.
Rightio.
100% Muttonbird
Elsewhere I have said the initial breach was annoying but the pimping of her case by RNZ and now some Standard faithful has got me really upset.
Ok, this is getting a little nasty; do you know what pimping means?
Of course I know what pimping means. I will retract if you order me to do so.
Like I say, this case had disappeared into the many cases of quarantine absconding until the media and some comments here re-highlighted it.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
Well, I suppose that depends upon when they left and if they expected him to suddenly die at the time.
You're going soft on me Draco…
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
If I have read you right, the subtle difference here is that the body was organised to be brought to Hamilton, to an appropriate facility.
The family would have a brief time with him, return to isolation, and the body goes back to Auckland for the 10.30 tangi.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Well, yeah.
My point was that leaving wasn't the problem – it was the expecting everything to be the same after the pandemic hit.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
Oh gsays it is boiling.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Signed H.I.KnowQC ".
‐——————-
Now for my invoice …..
I was wondering if Boag's maiden name was Heron…
This selfish woman had no concern for the safety and well being other people, and we’re supposed to do what after listening to her wee sob story?
Feel badly for her?
I don't fucking think so.
Did you listen to the interview?
Yup. She's special so she thinks she's entitled to put her own interests ahead of others. Fuck her.
That doesn't really reconcile with them all wearing their masks.
Yeah, it really actually does.
That's okay, then.
/
https://www.lexico.com/definition/special_pleading
Please expand?
You're citing an exception to the principle that doing a runner from quarantine is selfish and self serving.
Ta.
I figure when the clock is ticking, and the PTB are dragging their heels, there comes a time when you have to think and act for your family and self.
Because your family and self are special …..right?
/
You're engaging in logical fallacies to support an unsupportable position.
Really at the start of this, compassion arose after hearing Mum's version.
Not that what the family did was tickety-boo.
I went from being a gentle hardliner to a softer position when I had a fuller picture of goings on.
That's more of that special pleading.
She could release a statement on Hateful Comments Toward the Selfish Escapees from Quarantine Community.
https://twitter.com/russdiamond/status/1288488309816254469
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Jeez, I trust you are just an anonymous keyboard warrior with no actual authority.
I have zero authority. Just an NZ citizen like you. She jimmied a window and broke out 5 people during the most dangerous pandemic in 100 years.
Ship her and her kids back to Queensland. That’s the life they chose.
I was mildly upset by the initial breach but I’m now wild at the sympathetic framing by RNZ and now some commenters on this forum.
Could be worse, you could be sick to death!
I, and my family of four are fine, thanks.
Full sport for them, nine engagements per week plus full academic classes uninterrupted.
Unlike Melbourne which has been forced back into an ill-considered L3 lockdown. No kids’ sport. It should be an Australia wide L4 lockdown.
This Queensland woman and her family jearpordised my family’s sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of other families like mine.
She can go back to AUS anytime and NZ will be much better off.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
Bizarre response, but ok then.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-plans-to-grill-jacinda-ardern-on-behrouz-boochani-s-refugee-status.html
Media and politicians love to play on and play up the emotive side of things.
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
Agree 100% Draco and Muttonbird
I read your comments.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
Your logical fallacy of the day is: Appeal to Emotion
"I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her damn emotions."
Her emotions were not being anticipated and they needed to be as there was a crisis unfolding.
Did anyone consider that the mother could try and escape and to prevent this?
And
How would you have prevented an escape?
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Finally! Someone asks the right question.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
The "real question" is what would YOU have done in the same circumstances, and why.
ie, would you have waited for conformation to be able to leave with permission.
or
Would you have broken out, knowingly breaking the Law.
This applies to all sides of the argument.
What would You have done?
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Treetop
Your arguing after the fact.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
Hypothetical
Because you're not sure what your own response might be if you were placed in the same circumstances?
Would you have raised a flag, asked for more assistance, or forced a window to escape?
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
Patients is a rare human trait.
Emotional greif clouds peoples judgment.
Border Quarantine is there to protect every NZer.
We need to learn from these experiences and make adjustments accordingly.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
Because its quarantine.
And then we'd have thousands of people demanding the same bloody thing with an inevitable loss of quarantine.
No, it wouldn't. The breaking of quarantine is inherently not safe.
Common sense is a fallacy being neither common nor sense.
What would have easily mitigated this shit show was a stupid, selfish person not breaking quarantine.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
You spoke to soon about any reaction. Your topic of the mother's interview gave some strong views.
Wow to the response.
Seems having more money than dog makes you stupid.
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1288521738641342473
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/29/madonnas-instagram-flagged-for-spreading-coronavirus-misinformation
Lost eyes all over the shop….
https://twitter.com/RachelBitecofer/status/1288615177643003911