Giving the game away

Written By: - Date published: 2:16 pm, May 3rd, 2013 - 180 comments
Categories: Economy, Politics - Tags: , , ,

Aaron Gilmore, eh? He’s clearly finished in the National Party. Not for the view he expressed when he threatened to get a young waiter sacked, but because by doing so he’s lifted the veil on the carefully covered elitism that drives the national party’s agenda.

Don’t believe me? Well consider this comment yesterday from National’s leader:

Unfortunately, the kind of people who are probably, frankly, Labour and Green supporters, and will be less sophisticated as investors will get frightened off,

Got that? John Key sees Labour and Green supporters as “less sophisticated”. Because clearly if you know what you’re doing in the world of big business you’re smart enough to be a National voter. The rest of us are just (as ex-national party leader Don Brash described us) “punters in punterland”.

Colin Espiner gets it. He points out in his column today:

The trouble for National is that Gilmore has played up to exactly the sort of born-to-rule Tory, I’m-more-important-than-you stereotype that John Key has worked so hard to dismantle.

The thing is Key’s work hasn’t been to dismantle the stereotype so much as to disguise it – to provide a palatable, personable, front for a party that has consistently governed in the interests of the elite for the last four years. From the taxcuts for the rich, to the subsidies for big business, to the vociferous reaction to NZ Power, to vetoing paid parental leave, to the current cuts to Kiwi workers’ rights, this government has shown itself to be one that sees everyday Kiwis as little more than a resource pool for their wealthy mates.

The problem they face now is there’s a real mood in the electorate for transformative economic change. With NZ Power, Labour and the Greens have started to tap into that mood and hopefully will continue to do so.

As Jon Johansson puts it:

the Labour-Greens power announcement is an important landmark on the road to the 2014 election – a challenge to orthodoxy and the rise of an alternative.

Shown this alternative, even “less sophisticated” voters can see the current government for what it is. And no amount of “everyman” John Key photo-ops or scary there-is-no-alternative shtick from men in suits will change that.

180 comments on “Giving the game away ”

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  1. Rogue Trooper 1
    3 May 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Aaron Gilmore is a National embarrassment.

    • Thew Central Scutinizer 1.1
      3 May 2013 at 11:22 pm

      It does not matter who is an embarrassment to the national party or whom toes the line, If the barman had any brains he would have just wrote out a blue slip (two year trespass notice). Or is this just another John Key smoke screen?.
      As we all know National serves the money people. National coudn’t give a flying fuck about the people of NZ. I mean the ones who clean up the rich mans shit. We are just minions, ,Slaves and niggars. We are the despicable who cop the shit that the rich man wants to deal to us. But the biggist fear the rich man has, is we all have one equal vote.
      The Labour Party/New Zealand Greens come up with an idea (NZ Power) to upset the apple cart. Not good enough, sorry but its not enough. What about the poor working class who about to have their very existence stolen from them. We have heard all the old cliques “Our strentgh is in our unity our danger in our discorord”. Where is Labour and Greens now? as usual , Sitting on the fence. What is the CTU prepared to do? Probably exactly what they did back in May 1991, sweet fuck all . I say forget about the rolling stoppages, strikes and go slows. I’ve had enough. Lets start with the guillotine.
      Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

  2. leftriteleft 2
    3 May 2013 at 2:26 pm

    I may be “less sophisticated” but I can see thru John Key.

    • Arfamo 2.1
      3 May 2013 at 4:23 pm

      Akshilly, at the end of the day, I’d be comftibull with that – except my mind’s still boggling over the implication that John Key thinks he’s sofisticaydid.

    • Linz 2.2
      3 May 2013 at 5:16 pm

      I always knew John Key was just a pretty polly: Parrot beats investors in South Korean stock market contest
      A five-year-old parrot in South Korea has proved smarter than human investors in a stock investment contest.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5988799/Parrot-beats-investors-in-South-Korean-stock-market-contest.html

    • CnrJoe 2.3
      3 May 2013 at 7:23 pm

      i dont wont to be shrill but i saw thru him b4 u

    • Martin 2.4
      6 May 2013 at 9:49 am

      National is supported by old bastards and rich retired farmers who had the good years in this Country. Also middle age women with itchy fannies who fancy John Key, vacuous fairies ditto, nouveau riche dorks ( like Aaron Gilmore ) who love the idea of voting national as it makes them look good and rich, people who’s parents voted national and they have no idea why the fuck they are voting anyway…just because it’s tradition! You look at this bay of pigs and you ask yourself..as a green/labour supporter does this make me less sophisticated.

      John Key should remember his humble beginnings, this is probably why he is so keen to leave them behind……see Nouveau Riche!

  3. King Kong 3
    3 May 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Where your argument falls down is on the fact that there is not a single National MP, party member of voter who doesn’t genuinely think Gilmore behaved like a giant douche. Unless you are implying that secretly we all spend our time being cocks to waiters.

    • IrishBill 3.1
      3 May 2013 at 2:51 pm

      No, you also spend your time being cocks in the comment threads of the Standard.

      • dumrse 3.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 8:30 pm

        Being cocks needs to be one. How else will you be informed that the “less sophisticated” probably have absolutely no idea what “transformative economic change” is ?

    • McFlock 3.2
      3 May 2013 at 2:51 pm

      “member or voter”?
      I know some national party voters.
      Some of them are not cocks to waiters.
      I think that those people voted national by accident.

    • fatty 3.3
      3 May 2013 at 3:04 pm

      I think you miss the point completely King Kong.
      I’m not trying to speak for Irishbill, but from what I read, Irishbill’s point is that Gilmore has exposed National’s self-righteous assumption of their own superiority. So the issue is not that potential Nat voters will be turned off by the behaviour of an individual, but instead, the stereotype of National MPs being selfish and arrogant has been exposed.

      Read it again – “Key’s work hasn’t been to dismantle the stereotype so much as to disguise it”

      Gilmore has tarnished the Nats and it’ll be all hands on deck to make the Nats seem like regular people. Expect a media assault of the next few weeks where National MPs paint themselves as down to earth kiwis. We’ll probably see them at sausage sizzles or a club rugby game, or partaking in some other moronic Kiwi pastime.

      • Matthew Whitehead 3.3.1
        3 May 2013 at 7:47 pm

        King Kong isn’t missing the point, he’s trying to take a criticism of National Party’s agenda and defend against it by pretending the criticism applies to members and voters who do not decide the agenda, (of course, it should be the members absolute right to decide the agenda of their party, but the Nats do not operate that way) but many of these rhetorical human shields either simply identify with the party or consider them their best choice for their vote.

        Unlike the caricature of those of us on the left, we are sophisticated enough to understand when someone’s trying to spin their answer. 😉

    • vto 3.4
      3 May 2013 at 3:14 pm

      touchy touchy

    • Pascal's bookie 3.5
      3 May 2013 at 3:32 pm

      King Kong. There’s one at least.

      John Key is taking Gilmore’s word on the matter and doesn’t see any need to investigate this matter himself. He’s quite happy at the moment, and will only investigate if there is a ‘formal complaint’. There is no need for any such complaint in legal terms, if Key took the matter seriously, he could investigate himself, or have staff do it. But he doesn’t care to.

      • rosy 3.5.1
        3 May 2013 at 7:48 pm

        Key knows how to frame support for Gilmore’s version and get himself out of doing the right thing by investigating the complaint that is already out there.

        If there was any integrity on Planet Key (I know) then there would be a proactive investigation on the claims that are already public. Key expects that a hotel will put future bookings on the line to lay a complaint about a guest, and a waiter put his job on the line? I don’t think so – as always with Key it’s what left unsaid that’s the kicker.

        • Arfamo 3.5.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 7:58 pm

          I reckon Key knows the score. Gilmore’s boozed boorish nastiness has potentially cost National points they can’t afford to lose. Political pundits expect Gilmore to disappear way down the list at the next election. But Key won’t sack him and have the risk of him doing a Horan. He needs his vote.

          • King Kong 3.5.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 8:04 pm

            Key would demote him if he could, problem is this guy is such a nobody the only way is up.

            • Arfamo 3.5.1.1.1.1
              3 May 2013 at 8:09 pm

              It’s quite impressive that he’s so highly skilled in the art of self-destruction so early in a career though. Gotta give him points for that.

              • DavidC …
                3 May 2013 at 8:56 pm

                He is 4 years older than Darrren Hughes and hasnt fucked up his life anywhere near as badly.

                • BLiP …
                  4 May 2013 at 12:29 am

                  ‘

                  I bet Darren Hughes doesn’t face a life time of waiters pissing in his soup.

                  • DavidC …
                    4 May 2013 at 10:11 am

                    and I bet Gilmore doesn’t get his salad tossed like Hughes.

                    I doubt Gilmore will feel the need to flee the country after he resigns next week tho.

                • karol …
                  4 May 2013 at 7:24 am

                  DavidC: He is 4 years older than Darrren Hughes and hasnt fucked up his life anywhere near as badly.

                  Wanna bet?

                  And Hughes’ life is far from over yet.

                  • Alanz …
                    4 May 2013 at 7:33 am

                    Thanks to great contacts within Natz and in the community, apparently there are some interesting stories waiting to pop out for dear dear Aaron.

                    Sincerely hoping John Key will keep him on.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    5 May 2013 at 3:01 pm

                    What does Clint think?

      • infused 3.5.2
        3 May 2013 at 9:23 pm

        Why? Since the waiter hasn’t even come forward.

        • Pascal's bookie 3.5.2.1
          3 May 2013 at 9:45 pm

          Why?

          Because there is an allegation that a member of his caucus, which Key heads, threatened to use his relationship with Key to get someone sacked. that allegation comes from a lawyer, who has published the allegation over his name and was a witness to the whole affair.

          Now why should the waiter have to come forward for Key to investigate that? The allegation is there, a signed witness statement is there. What would the waiter coming forward add, exactly?

    • Paul 3.6
      3 May 2013 at 3:35 pm

      No the point is that the Nats and others who believe in the neoliberal ideal believe in the self, not society.. Look after yourself as Mrs Thatcher said “there is no such thing as society.” Hence the arrogance and superiority within true Nat believers..you only have to read through an average Standard thread just to see this contemptuous and smug approach.

      • King Kong 3.6.1
        3 May 2013 at 3:50 pm

        In my personal experience I have never witnessed a single example where a tory has been anything other than totally egalitarian. Then again I should expect those kinds of accusations from a plebian underling like you.

        • McFlock 3.6.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 3:52 pm

          lol

        • Blue 3.6.1.2
          3 May 2013 at 3:55 pm

          Ha Classic 🙂

        • TheContrarian 3.6.1.3
          3 May 2013 at 4:01 pm

          You don’t get out much do you, KK?

        • Shona 3.6.1.4
          3 May 2013 at 4:08 pm

          Because KK, it’s physically impossible to witness anything in life when you approach it with your face permanently wedged between your own buttocks, as Tories do.

        • Matthew Whitehead 3.6.1.5
          3 May 2013 at 7:52 pm

          I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

          “Related Words for : egalitarian
          equalitarian, classless”

          “plebian
          Use Plebian in a sentence
          Word Origin & History

          plebian
          1533 (n.), 1566 (adj.), from L. plebius “of the common people,” from plebes “the common people” (as opposed to patricians, etc.), perhaps from PIE base *ple- “to be full” (see plenary). Slang shortening pleb is attested from 1865 (see plebe).”

          Nice show demonstrating your belief in a classless egalitarian society, LOL. I fully expect your “it was a joke” excuse in five minutes or less.

        • paul andersen 3.6.1.6
          3 May 2013 at 8:48 pm

          of course you dont see anything when your nose is in the air(or trough)

    • Tim 3.7
      3 May 2013 at 5:33 pm

      I’m sure you don’t do it SECRETLY (as Aaron has just shown us all).

    • felix 3.8
      4 May 2013 at 4:46 am

      Silly monkey. They think he’s a douche for saying it out loud.

  4. Red Rosa 4
    3 May 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Well said. The National Party has a good sprinkling of these prats, but not often their arrogance comes into public view so blatantly. Colin Espiner puts it well (selective quote..;)

    ‘The trouble for National is that Gilmore has played up to exactly the sort of born-to-rule Tory, I’m-more-important-than-you stereotype…’

    Interesting that several Nat MPs rallied round Gilmore, in the latest Stuff story, towards the end –

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8629114/Unions-call-for-Gilmore-to-resign

  5. TheContrarian 5
    3 May 2013 at 2:49 pm

    “John Key sees Labour and Green supporters as “less sophisticated investors”

    FIFY

    • IrishBill 5.1
      3 May 2013 at 2:51 pm

      And why are they less sophisticated investors?

      • TheContrarian 5.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 2:58 pm

        Well considering Nat supporters are frequently painted as big banking rich pricks over here at The Standard you’d think said people would be more experienced in investments and the like.

        • IrishBill 5.1.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 3:00 pm

          A strawman argument? Well that makes it all alright then.

          • TheContrarian 5.1.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 3:01 pm

            Good, glad we agree.

            (FWIW – Saying Key called Green and Labour supporters are “less sophisticated” is a strawman in and of itself as he was talking about his own perception that they were less sophisticated at a particular skill – in this case, investing)

        • lprent 5.1.1.2
          3 May 2013 at 3:05 pm

          …you’d think said people would be more experienced in investments and the like

          Why? FFS I did a MBA nearly 30 years ago. Do you think that I have forgotten how to beat the market since that training in finance? It simply isn’t hard. It is also something that is quite boring compared to almost every other activity…

          It is only a complete fool (or the archetypal National loyalist) that thinks that the required degree in personal selfishness and greed to be blind to other people has much to do with skill sets.

          • TheContrarian 5.1.1.2.1
            3 May 2013 at 3:11 pm

            I don’t think that but I can see how some people might.

          • TheContrarian 5.1.1.2.2
            3 May 2013 at 3:14 pm

            Oh yeah, and the picture of Key in the pool is fucking awful…

            *shudder*

            • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.2.2.1
              3 May 2013 at 3:29 pm

              that was the *effect* first time I stumbled over it; a Capuchin ‘O Grotian beyond the Devils Causeway an trim with a Bushmills sweetener.

          • King Kong 5.1.1.2.3
            3 May 2013 at 3:52 pm

            Fuck lprent, you’re amazing.

            You could take down wall street if you wanted to but you just don’t want to.

            • Blue 5.1.1.2.3.1
              3 May 2013 at 3:57 pm

              KK you’re on fire today. Blue, BA(Hons), BE(Hons), MBA, EdD. See I’ve got one too.

              • lprent …
                3 May 2013 at 4:48 pm

                I did make the point that I got that nearly 30 years ago when it was actually useful. Now I realise you didn’t understand that what I was talking about was a time when every fool (like yourself) didn’t have one. In 1985 there were something like 50 MBA places in NZ. Now there are probably closer to a several thousand.

                • King Kong …
                  3 May 2013 at 5:02 pm

                  Incredible. And here I was thinking that I couldn’t adore you any more

                • Blue …
                  3 May 2013 at 7:01 pm

                  Got mine in 1989

                  • lprent …
                    3 May 2013 at 7:25 pm

                    Well you’ll know what I mean then – only a few hundred of the places then after Massey started up. Getting back to my original point before KK started acting like a ignorant purse rat…

                    I was pointing out to The Contrarian that many people have the skills required to make a living out of investments and

                    It simply isn’t hard. It is also something that is quite boring compared to almost every other activity…

                    About the only thing I think would be more boring would be something like being a professional gambler, a professional sportsperson, or playing computer games for a living. It exercises the adrenals, but it really isn’t that exciting if you aren’t into repetition.

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      5 May 2013 at 5:36 pm

                      And that would be missing The Contrarian’s point being that Key expressed an opinion that he percieved Labour and the Greens to be less sophisticated investors than Nat Neolib Banksters. The Contrarian was very clear that this was Key’s perception, not neccisarily the reality.

            • lprent 5.1.1.2.3.2
              3 May 2013 at 4:42 pm

              I realise that subtlety isn’t your strong point (basically you’re a moron in that), but the whole point of my comment was – why would I want to do something as boring as just making money? It is boring as a National or Act party stalwart.

              Idiot…

              • freedom …
                3 May 2013 at 5:16 pm

                “why would I want to do something as boring as just making money?”

                high five big ups you da man hell yeah hallejulah can i get an AMEN
                and you win all the internets 😎

                • Rhinocrates …
                  3 May 2013 at 6:57 pm

                  As far as I have seen, making money is the easiest thing in the world if making money is the only thing you really care about.

                  I don’t think that gold has anything to say about one’s own actual value as a human being.

                  • freedom …
                    3 May 2013 at 7:30 pm

                    Rhinoctrates, I was cheering lprent’s wise words. I was not dissing him, completely the opposite. This week I am grateful to have read those words, to be reminded that I am not the only person who thinks life means more then money. Sure we know there are lots of us out there but sometimes, it is just good to see it written down.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      4 May 2013 at 1:52 pm

                      Sorry, people, I was commenting on the mercenary impulse in general. I should read more carefully in future…

                  • lprent …
                    3 May 2013 at 7:44 pm

                    That would be my impression. But it requires a certain degree in personality retardation to limit yourself to that.

                    There are a number of people that I’ve run across over the years who have managed to both have a fulfilling life and get rich in the process. But the latter has always been more of a side effect then the reason.

                    I’ve also been freaked by people in jobs purely because of the money. Often as the result of someone else in the life requiring it. They really really needed help…

                    Life is too short to conform to the National policy of ‘He* who wins leaves life with the most toys”.

                    * I’ve afraid that National is in my view largely a male obsession… I have a post underway on the subject.

                    • geoff …
                      3 May 2013 at 11:18 pm

                      The things we do under the pretension that we’re doing it for the benefit of others.

                    • jbc …
                      4 May 2013 at 12:45 am

                      Reminds me of a great Ricardo Semler quote that Jason Fried brought up in an interview a year or two back, only two things grow for the sake of growth: businesses and tumors.

                      Now that’s obviously not *all* businesses, but the point is well taken.

                      Gilmore’s “don’t you know who I am” self-important, stuck-up outburst is not limited to men though. I don’t keep tabs but immodesty seems to infect both genders in equally inflated proportions.

                      However if you could fire someone for being a cock then the ERA would be overwhelmed.

              • dumrse …
                3 May 2013 at 9:37 pm

                If you had the skills to make money you wouldn’t be here…..speaks volumes really.

                • lprent …
                  4 May 2013 at 8:43 am

                  You really are a dumbarse.

                  For the last 20 odd years, I’ve been a c++ computer programmer mostly specializing in writing software for export. Doing that from NZ means that I’m writing bleeding edge applications, because known solutions are the realm of high capital teams overseas. In nz we do small teams with merely a whiff of capital and some really good ideas. But I’m always well paid. It’d be no problem to be better paid. But the problem is that the best paid jobs in computers are always those that are the least interesting – often because you have to work with silly fools (like yourself if I’m any judge)

                  But it means that I sit in front of a computer at times waiting for hundreds of thousands of lines of code to compile, or to upload into devices or servers for testing. So I read or moderate comments while I wait, and while I background the structure of the code in my head.

                  Programmers literally cannot operate effectively without sidetracking at least once every hour or so. They go stale and eventually start burning out. So damn near every long term programmer I know winds up “talking” somewhere on the net. Mostly about computers, but also about damn near everything else. In all probability, that need by programmer to exercise other parts of their brains is the main reason for the existence of the net

                  If you look around the net you will find vast historical archives reaching back decades of computer pros talking to each other about our work and interests….. There are other people who have slowly been coming on board over that time as they too start needing to be near computers.

                  Bumbling dumbarses like yourself are merely the bugs that haven’t been dealt with yet.

            • infused 5.1.1.2.3.3
              3 May 2013 at 9:25 pm

              Yeah, I laughed too.

          • Murray Olsen 5.1.1.2.4
            3 May 2013 at 6:33 pm

            In 1997 when I was finishing my PhD I was sounded out to see if I’d be interested in doing financial modelling using stochastic differential equations. I think they give it the fancy name of econophysics. The money was almost twice what I’m getting now. I thought about it, but quickly realised I’d have to wear a suit to work and wouldn’t be allowed to talk about my work. It screamed BORING at me. I must be pretty unsophisticated, because I’ve never regretted not doing it. I’ve also never considered voting National.

            • lprent 5.1.1.2.4.1
              3 May 2013 at 7:33 pm

              Had a recruiter who’d looked at my CV wanting to drag me over to sydney (paying for the trip) for something similar in the programming line in the late 90’s. But yeah, it simply didn’t sound that interesting outside of the money. But if I’d been interested in money then I’d have done a Gilmore and arselicked my way into corporate or even politics long ago and become yet another born to rule cheap drunk*.

              * It has been interesting in the types of stories about Aaron that I’ve been hearing. By the sound of the anecdotes, this isn’t the first time that he has become boastful about how inflated he is whilst drunk….

    • Mike 5.2
      4 May 2013 at 12:26 am

      I’ve asked my broker to look at value stocks that National faithful will be divesting to pay for their govt selloff, I figure I can’t lose

      • fender 5.2.1
        4 May 2013 at 2:11 pm

        Don’t worry about the National faithful, they have had plenty of time to save for the shares due to the tax cuts their shonKey one handed them, it was all a part of the process of the wealth transfer planning.

  6. Dv 6
    3 May 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I cant help be reminded of the Hanover ads by the Mighty River ads.

    They give me a really uncomfortable feeling.

    Must mean I am unsophisticated.

  7. BLiP 7
    3 May 2013 at 3:24 pm

    ‘

    I don’t take the “unsophisticated” slight personally. I’m sure John Key isn’t even talking to me, he’s most likely addressing National Ltd™ voters and trying to reassure them into forking out for Mighty River raffle tickets shares. It seems something like a call to arms, almost as if he's having to personally guarantee that now's the time to cash-in. Seems a tad desperate. Worried much, John?

    The use of "unsophisticated" is a sophisticated use of a misnomer, though. It avoids providing actual details and talks directly to the ego of the ashpahrashunal. And nicely timed. Just as he's soothing the worried brows of his flock, he's helicoptered into the Tangi just in time for the Friday 6 o-clock news. Looks like John Key's Ministry of Truth has put a psychologist or two in the marketing team and sussed out some glamorous logistics for the backdrop.

    • Antlion 7.1
      3 May 2013 at 4:34 pm

      Hmm. If it was a raffle, and there was a meat tray in the prize list, I might have been up for it. Hmm. Crumbed sausages, mashed potatoes and peas. Now, _that’s_ sophisticated.

    • emergency mike 7.2
      3 May 2013 at 6:19 pm

      That what I thought also BLiP, just another dog-whistle:

      “Hey you clever National voters. Labour and the Greens are trying to scare you off buying shares, don’t let them! If you let them, then you’ll be as stupid as the people who vote for them. You don’t want to vote for them right? Hell no. Then be with the smart crowd holding shares, like me, John Key, multimillionaire money-man guru.”

  8. ianmac 8
    3 May 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Being helicoptered in is probably meant to re-enforce the Nat belief that we rich people are showing you East Coast peasants how far they are from the rich and the famous and that Key and his team are ” the sort of born-to-rule Tory, I’m-more-important-than-you stereotype”. Touching of fore-locks follow.

    • Populuxe1 8.1
      5 May 2013 at 5:39 pm

      Yep, nothing like having a whole motorcade go twice the legal speed limit to get to a rugby game or anything like that, aiight.

  9. Blue 9
    3 May 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Key should sack the little prick. Problem solved.

    • Tim 9.1
      3 May 2013 at 5:42 pm

      The sufysstcaydid Proim Munsta en Munsta of Torzim has jist been on Proim Nures. He snot gunna teal um ti fuk off.
      Hears that fah kearna bilty?

      • Blue 9.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 7:07 pm

        TimI understand that you’re trying to do the funny accent thing, but shit, that’s just about illegible. You’re overdoing it pal.

        • Tim 9.1.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 8:41 pm

          It’s how I hear it. It’s also how a mate who is doing his best to learn English hears it, and who says he finds it harder here (listening to MSM that’s laden with Key appearances in just about every news bulletin) than he did when in Australia.
          I don’t think its funny at all. I ekshly find it quite telling of a Proim Munsta that’s really quite lazy in every way – speech included.
          But, I understand what you mean.

          • Murray Olsen 9.1.1.1.1
            4 May 2013 at 7:38 pm

            I’m not sure lazy is the right word. He puts in long hours, for example. I think his problem is lack of attention to detail and a belief in his own superiority. I’ve come across this attitude in a lot of men who’ve made their fortune using the parasitic methods that the first ACT government made so rewarding. I come across it far less in anyone who has actually built something, or had to do anything original. These people realise that success can be fragile, there is an element of luck, and just because they did well in one area doesn’t mean they are masters at everything. They also tend to acknowledge that others have been necessary to their success. NAct people believe they do well because they are superior beings.

  10. gobsmacked 10
    3 May 2013 at 4:11 pm

    An MP’s inflated sense of entitlement does more to rile the voters than almost anything. Aaron Gilmore is the personification of that arrogance. The public reaction is visceral, just like it was to the the British MPs and their “moat” stories a while back.

    The tragedy is that the main opposition party is dominated by people who are not offended by that sense of entitlement, but actually share it. That’s why they are getting no traction in the polls – instead of identifying the arrogance only with National, many voters say “oh, they’re all as bad as each other”. Just listen to the number of people over the past 48 hours blaming “list MPs”, as if all parties were the same. This popular perception is grossly unfair on the Greens, and also unfair on some Labour MPs. But not all.

    A leader who could harness the people’s anger towards self-serving politicians would sweep to power. But if you’ve been installed by self-serving politicians, you probably won’t.

  11. Morrissey 11
    3 May 2013 at 4:14 pm

    The trouble for National is that Gilmore has played up to exactly the sort of born-to-rule Tory, I’m-more-important-than-you stereotype that John Key has worked so hard to dismantle.

    No, Key has not done anything of the sort. Nothing could more effectively show the poverty and untrustworthiness of Colin Espiner’s commentary.

    • Puddleglum 11.1
      3 May 2013 at 6:50 pm

      I think Key’s whole manner has been to dismantle the stereotype. But that’s not the point.

      It’s not the stereotype that needs dismantling, but the reality. Key hasn’t made any efforts whatsoever in this respect.

      Actually, Key has not just worked to dismantle the existing stereotype but to re-engineer it. In a sense I think he still wants a stereotype of the wealthy, but a much more benign one – philanthropic and ‘successful’, but otherwise just like everyone else.

      Such a stereotype excludes the minor fact that they also have vastly more wealth, power, influence and cultural capital – and all the dispositions and attitudes that, throughout history, tend to go along with that.

      Stereotypes are generalisations, aligned with reality to varying degrees. Key has sought to reconfigure the stereotype of Tories so that it aligns less accurately with reality.

      • Populuxe1 11.1.1
        5 May 2013 at 5:42 pm

        Indeed, that was why he was tapped for politics in the first place.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    3 May 2013 at 4:18 pm

    …to provide a palatable, personable, front for a party that has consistently governed in the interests of the elite for the last four 70 odd years.

    FIFY

    From the taxcuts for the rich, to the subsidies for big business, to the vociferous reaction to NZ Power, to vetoing paid parental leave, to the current cuts to Kiwi workers’ rights, this government has shown itself to be one that sees everyday Kiwis as little more than a resource pool for their wealthy mates.

    Bingo!

    As far as National is concerned everybody else is there solely for the benefit and pleasure of the rich. It’s why they’re presently passing policy that will turn most NZers in to outright serfs with the whip of the MSD to force them to work for next to nothing.

    • Tim 12.1
      3 May 2013 at 5:55 pm

      Hey Draco….
      I see it often, and Oim fuk in unsfustkaydid, as a recent interloper in the blog wurl, though increasingly engaging with this damn good i-site…. what der fook duzzz FIFY mean?

      I imagine somehow if I wanted to increase DPF’s popularity stats by visiting some horror show called Kiwiblog, I could work it out quicker – easier to jiss ask – and images of cretins and puking is jiss so unsfustkaydid anyway.

      FIFY = ?

  13. Penny Bright 13
    3 May 2013 at 4:42 pm

    When is NZ Prime Minister John Key going to stand down John Banks as a Minister?

    National MP Aaron Gilmore isn’t facing Court proceedings – unlike Minister John Banks ________________________________________________________________________

    FYI:

    Open Letter to the NZ Solicitor-General, Michael Heron – please confirm that you will intervene as Prosecutor in the John Banks alleged electoral fraud proceedings:

    3 May 2013

    Open Letter to the NZ Solicitor-General, Michael Heron:

    Dear Solicitor-General,

    http://www.crownlaw.govt.nz/uploads/prosecution_guidelines.pdf

    The ‘Evidential’ and ‘Public Interest’ tests as outlined in s6 of the Crown Law Prosecution Guidelines, have arguably been met in the decision of Wellington District Court Judge Mill on 16 April 2013, in the matter of Graham Edward McCready (Informant) vs John Archibald Banks (Defendant) CRI – 2012-085-0009093 and CRI – 2012- 085- 007894:

    Judge Mill’s decision is available here:
    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Banks-summoned-on-election-return-19-4-13.pdf

    Both myself and Lisa Prager, made formal complaints to the NZ Police over this matter, as outlined below, in this reply, dated 26 July 2012:

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Bright-Letter.pdf

    ” COMPLAINT REGARDING HONOURABLE JOHN BANKS – MAYORAL ELECTIONS RETURN – FILE NO: 120427/9334 REFERS

    On 27 April 2012, you made a complaint to the Auckland City Police requesting they investigate reports regarding the Hon. John Archibald Banks, CNZM QSO, that he submitted a false donation return in respect to the Auckland City Council Mayoral election 2010 .

    Specifically the letter of complaint referred to two donations in question:

    1. A $15,000.00 donation allegedly made by Sky City to the former Auckland City Mayor John Banks which did not show up as a donation in the return .

    2. A donation of “Anonymous- radio ads” .

    On Monday 30 April 2012 you made a further complaint in respect to the election expenses donation return by Mr John Banks. Your complaint referred to media articles by Campbell Live (27 April 2012) and the New Zealand Herald (28 April 2012) that discussed donations allegedly made by Mr Dotcom to Mr Banks for his mayoral campaign .

    In both complaints you allege that if the articles were correct then Mr Banks had breached the Local Electoral Act 2001 in that a candidate commits an offence who transmits a return of electoral expenses knowing that it is false in any material particular….”

    The NZ Police chose not to prosecute.

    The significant and ongoing ‘public interest’ in this case is arguably referenced in the following article in today’s NZ Herald:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10881226

    Loss in court would cost Banks seat
    By Isaac Davison @Isaac_Davison
    5:30 AM Friday May 3, 2013
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Lisa Prager and myself, Penny Bright, hereby support the following Memorandum of Informant, dated 29 April 2013:

    Referral to Solicitor-General to Intervene as Prosecutor

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/John-Banks-referral-to-Solicitor-General.pdf

    Please be reminded of the following statutory provision of the Local Electoral Act 2001:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2001/0035/latest/DLM93437.html

    6 Act binds Crown

    This Act binds the Crown.

    Please confirm at your earliest convenience that Crown Law will do their best to ensure that ‘justice is done and is seen to be done’, and ensure that the principle of ‘one law for all’, equally applies to sitting Ministers of the Crown, by intervening as Prosecutor in this above-mentioned proceeding.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    …………

    Lisa Prager

    …………….

  14. Ruobeil 14
    3 May 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Hypocrisy is alive and thriving in the Labour Party.

    At least no lives were at risk with Gilmore’s antics.

    Unlike when Dyson and Tamihere were pinged for drink driving.

    • mickysavage 14.1
      3 May 2013 at 5:39 pm

      Out in wingnut land the call has gone out, we cannot defend Gilmour’s actions they are too far beyond the pale so talk about any infringement that any Labour MP has done while drunk.

      The only and most significant difference is that Gilmour made this far worse, while sober, by essentially lying to drop his friends into it. If he had just said “I stuffed up big time” we could all let this go, but the avoidance attempts, while sober, has fuelled this story.

      • handle 14.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 5:48 pm

        Dyson and Tamihere also avoided threatening staff with action by the PM. So hard to do, we know.

        • DavidC 14.1.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 6:14 pm

          But as much as Gilmore was a drunken moron the difference is that Gilmore wasnt going to kill anyone while being a drunk moron.

          If Ruobeil (wft does it mean?) was just trolling he would have mentioned Dover huh?

          • DavidC 14.1.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 6:15 pm

            I am in moderation? interesting.

            • DavidC 14.1.1.1.1.1
              3 May 2013 at 6:19 pm

              Ok I am not in moderation for that post so what was in the first post to trigger a bot?

              [lprent: Beats me. I released some of your comments from moderation. Couldn’t see anything wrong. Could be anything from a transient network routing problem between the data server and akismet to akismet not liking your IP range. Usually the system is pretty good at recognizing junk and drawing it to out attention, and we usually come through and release whatever is a false positive.

              But we got about 150,000 comments last year and the bot attempts would have been pretty high as well. Just consider the odd delays in your comments as being the cost of not having to read exhortations to watch dodgy youtube videos or penis enlargement devices (the two in the 2% of the spam that akismet shows us). ]

              • DavidC …
                3 May 2013 at 6:33 pm

                Someone can delete the above 2 and this if they like. I wont be offended 🙂

        • Ruobeil 14.1.1.2
          3 May 2013 at 6:29 pm

          Has it been proven that he threatened staff?

          • DavidC 14.1.1.2.1
            3 May 2013 at 6:36 pm

            I dont believe he threatened physical harm but its clear he made a drunken boast of having the waiter fired if waiter didnt get him more booze pronto.

            invoked the PM’s long reach, Johnboy will not be a happy camper at all.

        • Rhinocrates 14.1.1.3
          3 May 2013 at 6:42 pm

          If you claim that that is bad, then you are admitting that Gilmore is bad. Logical consistency cuts both ways, you know.

          • DavidC 14.1.1.3.1
            3 May 2013 at 6:59 pm

            If I were Key and the rules said I could do so he would have been gone by lunchtime today.

            But as it stands if he gets sacks he just becomes an independant trougher.

            • Pascal's bookie 14.1.1.3.1.1
              3 May 2013 at 11:24 pm

              It is up to Key whether or not he remains in the National party though. That’s his decision, or that of causcus which I doubt would side with Gilmore if Key said he should go.

              So that decision is one Key is accountable for either way.

    • Paul 14.2
      3 May 2013 at 5:45 pm

      Is that a defence of his actions?
      Or just trolling?
      Divert, ignore, insult…..

      • Rhinocrates 14.2.1
        3 May 2013 at 6:30 pm

        It’s the usual – It’s bad when they did it… but they did it, so if we do it, it’s not bad after all.

        I have to say, Labour, for all its sins is quite amazing – it has quite amazing, albeit strange – powers of morality in blazing a trail of legitimacy. Whatever a Labour member does is awful, but it magically makes the same deed by a NACT member blessed.

        The logical end of this is that someone should pay someone to join Labour or even a real left party so that they can commit all kinds of acts of debauchery and corruption and then automatically anything, absolutely anything, done by a NACT member is at the very least morally neutral, most likely legitimate and maybe even saintly.

        Or, to cut to the chase, we could ask who is being the hypocrite instead – if it is to be condemned, then it is not justified by anyone else having done it if you pretend to having the capacity for moral judgement to say that it is wrong in the first place. You can’t have it both ways at once – if something is wrong, then it is always wrong and that’s all there is to it.

        What’s it going to be next? “But X has overdue library books!”

        • Murray Olsen 14.2.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 6:46 pm

          I thought that was how Back Pussy Tamihere, Pornman Slave Fisheries Jones, and Street Fighting, Ticket Scalping Man Mallard got into the Labour Party. It’s easier to believe than any other version.

          • Rhinocrates 14.2.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 6:47 pm

            Um, could you try using English?

            By the way, I definitely do not want to be forced into defending Mallard, the Member for Sealord or Tamihere! There are limits, and my health to consider.

      • Tim 14.2.2
        3 May 2013 at 6:43 pm

        It’s the sign of TOTAL desperation. It’s the sign of a sailor in Captain’s clothing, It’s the sign of diarrhea struggling to become a turd.

    • Murray Olsen 14.3
      4 May 2013 at 7:44 pm

      No lives at risk? What about in logging and mining since safety regimes have been dismantled? One stupid MP driving while drunk, while deplorable, is not on the same scale as making whole industries unsafe. Spare me the fake outrage of idiots, FFS.

  15. Peter 15
    3 May 2013 at 6:13 pm

    You are absolutely correct, the NACTS see themselves as the natural party born to rule. In the same way as the Republicans in the USA see themselves. Their most brilliant achievement by far since 2006 is to convince the majority of Kiwis that what is good for them is good for all of us. May they continue to expose their thin veneer and become just as irrelevant as the Republicans.

    • Populuxe1 15.1
      5 May 2013 at 3:13 pm

      Not really THAT similar – even the Dems are far to the right of National in terms of social spending, civil and human rights and some other things. National are more like the unholy Con-Lib alliance in the UK without the toffs.

  16. DavidC 16
    3 May 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Ok question related to this post.

    Should a Party Leader be able to sack a list MP and have them replaced with next cab off the rank if list MP has been proven to bring their office into disrepute?

    I vote yes.

    • gobsmacked 16.1
      3 May 2013 at 6:25 pm

      No.

      What does “proven” mean? In a court – sure. But if it’s a political judgement, then who decides?

      • DavidC 16.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 6:31 pm

        The Leader decides.

        Gilmore would have been gone already. The likes of Huata woudl have been gone too.

        The Voters get to tell the Leader of that party if they liked it at the next election.

        • gobsmacked 16.1.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 6:39 pm

          What if the leader decides to get rid of those MPs who voted for his leadership rival, and replace them with poodles? What is due process?

          • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 7:13 pm

            Due process? Huh?

            Perhaps we can call DavidC’s electoral suggestion the “Stalin Amendment”

            • DavidC 16.1.1.1.1.1
              3 May 2013 at 8:45 pm

              Well to be honest it would have seen Cunliff binned huh?
              But then the voters would choose to support that action in voting for the leadership or not.

              I just dislike the fact that a lister (Gilmore, Huata, Horan) would have been sacked in normal employment but as an MP they keep on sucking at the tax payers teet.

              I dont include the likes of the shit bird Field. He obviously should have been sacked by Clark but he was elected so its up to his voters to sack him.

              • Pascal's bookie …
                3 May 2013 at 11:21 pm

                Whether or not an MP remains part of a caucus is up to the party. That’s clearly an internal matter, and how they go about it is up to them. If they say it’s up the leader then I don’t have a problem with that.

                however, whether or not an MP remains in parliament isn’t an internal matter. Every MP is elected to parliament by votes. So an MP being expelled from the party should have no bearing on their status as an MP.

                That goes for list MPs because they are elected to parliament off a list that was determined prior to the election and is required to be publicly released so that voters can see who they are voting for.

                the fact that an MP falls out with their party, for whatever reason, doesn’t change the fact that they were duly elected. It doesn’t change the order of that list that people voted for.

  17. gobsmacked 17
    3 May 2013 at 6:19 pm

    A double dose of Nat-Noddies will be featured on Campbell Live tonight – Gilmore and Devoy.

    • emergency mike 17.1
      3 May 2013 at 6:23 pm

      I’ll go ahead and start cringing in advance.

      • Anne 17.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 6:50 pm

        Maybe I heard it wrong, but Campbell Live has yet another story on an applicant for the job of Race Relations Commissioner. Apparently Collins defriended the applicant on Facebook. Boohoo I say… who would want to be a friend of that bitch.

        • Blue 17.1.1.1
          3 May 2013 at 7:04 pm

          You stay classy Anne

          • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1.1
            3 May 2013 at 7:08 pm

            It’s principally because one wishes to stay classy that one chooses to defriend that bitch.

          • karol 17.1.1.1.2
            3 May 2013 at 7:08 pm

            Happy Gilmore. OMG! Hilarious on Campbell Live.

            • Mary 17.1.1.1.2.1
              3 May 2013 at 7:35 pm

              I want Gilmore to stay. We need all the help we can getting the public to see how elitist, hypocritical and hateful towards most New Zealanders Key and National really are. It’d be a great election strategy to use what Gilmore said as examples of what Key and his mates really think about the people they’re meant to be serving and looking out for.

              • karol …
                3 May 2013 at 7:45 pm

                Well, that’s a point. But I have a feeling he’s gonsky. key’s position is shifting in relation to Gilmore. And he just was set up to become a national/National laughing stock by Campbell live tonight.

              • Murray Olsen …
                4 May 2013 at 7:49 pm

                The problem with his staying is that many Kiwis would see this as proof that he’d done nothing wrong and it was all a beatup by the Christchurch Gay Marxist Lawyers’ Collective. I’d like him to go.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  4 May 2013 at 7:57 pm

                  Nah Kiwis ain’t that dumb. Mostly.

                  And there’s very little that National can do to get rid of him. No one is going to offer Gilmore a top banking job like they did for Power…

        • Anne 17.1.1.2
          3 May 2013 at 7:51 pm

          It transpires the applicant’s application was never even acknowledged, so he used Facebook to get in touch with Collins and asked if she could look into it. I had the impression it happened some time ago before an appointment was announced. The next morning he went on to Facebook and found he had been defriended. Fortunately he saw the funny side of it but what a cow…

          No not classy language Blue but imho, she’s behaved in such a way she’s deserving of the title. I might add the applicant was not a born and bred NZer so can be forgiven for not realising it was probably not the best way to seek information.

          Here it is

        • dumrse 17.1.1.3
          3 May 2013 at 10:00 pm

          Very catty.

  18. pollywog 18
    3 May 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Sophistication is for land raping muthafuckaz…keep it real, keep it gully!!!

    • Colonial Viper 18.1
      3 May 2013 at 7:11 pm

      Yes dear chap, perhaps you’d like to partake in a snifter of brandy while we discuss the sophisticated and elegant business of land raping like bankster muthafuckaz

  19. Mary 19
    3 May 2013 at 7:28 pm

    “…a party that has consistently governed in the interests of the elite for the last four years. From the taxcuts for the rich, to the subsidies for big business, to the vociferous reaction to NZ Power, to vetoing paid parental leave, to the current cuts to Kiwi workers’ rights, this government has shown itself to be one that sees everyday Kiwis as little more than a resource pool for their wealthy mates.”

    We know this is true but there’s no guarantee the general populace will be too concerned. Much of the problem is because Labour is completely inept at communicating with most people and with Shearer as leader they have no show of conveying these ideas clearly and credibly. It might be utterly staggering to most on this site to see all the things Key has done stacked up on top of each other like this, but getting the general public to feel the same way is a different story. There are other things that’ve helped to create this situation like the the right’s deliberate attempts at destroying the caring climate of opinion we once had, but Shearer’s unsuitability as an effective leader doesn’t help and in my view it makes it worse.

    • Ruobeil 19.1
      3 May 2013 at 7:52 pm

      Stop talking bollocks Mary. It wasn’t just the wealthy who got tax cuts.

      Didn’t Labour give Welfare for Families to the rich as well?

      • Mary 19.1.1
        3 May 2013 at 8:40 pm

        “Didn’t Labour give Welfare for Families to the rich as well?”

        It was called “Working for Families” although how you’ve described it is more accurate because it only happened after National made them poor. Then (under the same budget in 2004) Labour made the existing poor even poorer. If you don’t know anything about all of this I suggest you do some reading. There, I’ve given you a clue.

  20. pollywog 20
    3 May 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Hard bro…

    Sophisticated is overrated. Dumbed down is the new black!

  21. Ruobeil 21
    3 May 2013 at 7:49 pm

    It cracks me up watching Helen Kelly calling for Gilmore’s head – yet more hypocrisy.

    Would she have called for Dyson and Tamihere’s heads or are Nat MP’s held to a higher standard?

    • Rhinocrates 21.1
      3 May 2013 at 8:07 pm

      If such behaviour is wrong, then Gilmore is wrong. If such behaviour is allowable, then you cannot lay any blame anywhere. You see, on your terms, it is all about you after all, strangely enough – are your principles consistent? If “hypocrisy” is such a sin, then consider your own.

      Apparently we again have the miraculous ability of other people to sanctify any aberrant behaviour. As long as someone else has done something you imagine to be like it first, it’s alright.

      All sorts of sins have been committed by other people first, so apparently anything is allowable.

      Is that your basis for morality?

      Anything else is a diversion, which is de facto an admission of fault.

    • Puddleglum 21.2
      3 May 2013 at 8:11 pm

      Hi Ruobeil,

      I think you may have missed the point as to why Helen Kelly would have been commenting.

      I assumed it was because Gilmore’s (alleged) threat to the waiter’s employment made it come under her brief as CTU head. Also, I imagine that general bullying of and threats to workers in the hospitality trade is taken seriously by the union movement, given how often they occur.

      Having a politician treat a worker in that way in what is already a problematic work setting is something I would expect the CTU to respond to strongly.

      The other incidents did not have an employment relations angle to them, so far as I recall. Kelly could have complained as a private citizen, perhaps, but I would not have expected her to have commented on those incidents (of course, she was also not in her current position then, but was still working in the union movement).

  22. BrucetheMoose 22
    3 May 2013 at 8:23 pm

    What do you mean I’m not so sofistakated Johnny? What a pretenshuss arse.

  23. Brian 23
    3 May 2013 at 8:50 pm

    And, of course, Key has decided to do nothing other than call him a naughty boy.

    • Alanz 23.1
      3 May 2013 at 8:57 pm

      Bloody lousy show by John Key of higher standards of government that he campaigned for.

  24. vto 24
    3 May 2013 at 9:02 pm

    Fancy John Key referring to sophistication in investors. It in fact lines up exactly with Aaron Gilmore’s outlook on life. Because John Key can’t understand people who spurn his world he abuses them. Like a bully. Like Aaron Gilmore did in Hamner Springs. Like they do. Abuse to cover faults they don’t even see yet sense. So fools.

  25. Colonial Viper 25
    3 May 2013 at 9:42 pm

    This is just too good to be true

  26. Jenny 26
    4 May 2013 at 7:10 am

    I had thought that IRISHBILL’s claim that; “He’s clearly finished in the National Party.” May have been going a bit far, as the Nats in the past have been quite tolerant of shows of elitist bad behaviour and generally just ignore it till it all blows over.

    In this estimation I may have been wrong. From stuff this morning:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8631574/Gilmore-has-colourful-history

    It seems that the knives are out for Gilmore and it can only be a matter of time.

    Does this signal that the Nats are a lot more vulnerable and so cannot afford any more such scandals?

  27. vto 27
    4 May 2013 at 9:03 am

    Did I detect a discomfort on Key’s part at Horomia’s tangi? There seemed little impression from those in the background, little warmth from the crowd to his speech, and little pleasure on Key’s smarmy face.

    They dont like him at all and seemed to be making it clear.

    • felix 27.1
      4 May 2013 at 9:24 am

      Dunno mate, but I will say this:

      Helicopters always have the effect of making you look like you think you’re the most important person on the scene.

      • Rogue Trooper 27.1.1
        4 May 2013 at 1:09 pm

        yes, I wondered about the impact of the chopper

        • Arfamo 27.1.1.1
          4 May 2013 at 2:48 pm

          The impact of the chopper will depend on how you already view Key. Pretentious git wasting Defence resources showing off will be one view. How wise and appropriate will be the other.

  28. Jenny 28
    6 May 2013 at 11:16 am

    Is this the sort of world view that wealth imbues people with?

    Maybe the prank was a crude and childish answer to boorish behavior, but the response it uncovered would not be out of place for the arrogant born to rule view expressed by some powerful and wealthy people here.

    Rules and laws and civilised behaviour doesn’t matter to these people, even assault is a minor matter if you can afford it. They know they will be treated leniently and any fine will be trivial compared to their wealth.

    “I can buy your whole family”

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