Hone, MP split, no contest 2011

65 comments on “Hone, MP split, no contest 2011 ”

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1. kultur 1

   23 February 2011 at 3:27 pm

   Mark my words – hone harawira will do very well. He is an intelligent and very canny operator.

   At the very least – even though i dont like his attitudes on many issues – the man is true to his beliefs … much like Winston Peters really.

   The unfortunate thing is MMP makes everybody have to compromise and flip flop and run counter to their cause in order to actually be in any position to make any difference.

   Just look what its done to the Maori Party. What the ructions do is they produce a more refined “purist” outcome at the other end – watch closely both Harawira and Peters – both are returning to their first principles apace and distancing themselves from compromise – and their respective opponents are unwittingly helping the process – Key was stupid to rule out Peters and he will live to regret it. Its going make a huge difference this election in my opinion.
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     23 February 2011 at 3:39 pm

     MMP forces our politicians to work together and listen to each another. That’s a good thing. No single view should rule over all others – particularly if (like under FPP) that view was voted in by only a minority of people.

     The thing which seems to have compromised the role of individual MPs the most is the strengthening of the political party system to the extent that MPs can say very little which is not part of their party line. Making political life that less interesting, less engaging and less colourful.
     • kultur 1.1.1

       23 February 2011 at 9:22 pm

       it doesnt make them listen to each other or cooperate… it forces them to compromise, flip flop and lie through their teeth more than ever. However when you finally get guys like Phil Goff and Winston Peters nailing colours to their masts – then you get inane and stupid attacks from the media and every other vested interest group (usually moronic minorities with loud voices) and the stupid public swallow the whole load … and then you get principled people bending over and taking it up the keester in the name of political correctness.

       Thats how you end up with an imbecilic grinning glove puppet like Key being the most popular prime minister according to some poll conducted by interviewing sexually frustrated housewives in upper class neighbourhoods whose big moment in the day is showering after Zumba classes and taking up ‘quilting’ as a return to their pioneer ‘roots’.

       At least under FPP people had to stand for something and actually convince the voting public of it. Now its ‘stand on the street corner” flash your good bits and then they find after paying the fee that you either have less bits than expected – or more of a package than you expected .. or indeed – nothing at all.

       The emporer has no clothes on – and MMP has provided the opportunity and environment for the fantasy picture of the emporer being clothed in some fantastic new garment that only the privileged and enlightened can actually perceive … when in fact he is in the nick – and is a naked buffoon. Smart moves my ass … key couldnt make a smart move if his arse wasnt pointing to the ground.

       The smart moves are just dumb luck … nothing more. He’s a gambler and a crook
       • M 1.1.1.1

         24 February 2011 at 10:19 am

         ‘Thats how you end up with an imbecilic grinning glove puppet like Key being the most popular prime minister’

         ‘The smart moves are just dumb luck … nothing more. He’s a gambler and a crook’

         Greetings kultur, imbecilic grinning glove puppet and dumb luck are so apt but I don’t honestly think people are going to discover this until after the election if by a tragic move voters are the authors of their own coming misfortune. People have been so seduced by greed over the last 30 years they cannot think beyond the mantra ‘what’s in it for me?’

         On one hand Key promotes NZ and NZers as go-getters when it’s things like the RWC or rescue efforts for the poor sods in Christchurch but then does a 180 and says that NZers are not aspirational, are tied to nanny state rhetoric and implies that concern for others is a character fault – why doesn’t the SOB make up his mind. I would have a nugget of respect if he displayed as being a true bastard because at least with a bastard you know what you’re in for instead of playing Mr Nice Guy while he stabs you in the back.
   • Chris73 1.2

     23 February 2011 at 3:47 pm

     I disagree, John Key thinks WP is not to be trusted so he ruled him out letting everyone know before hand where (JK) stands

     Smart move
     • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

       23 February 2011 at 3:53 pm

       Trying to manipulate the landscape that the electorate votes on is indeed a smart move by Key.
       • Chris73 1.2.1.1

         23 February 2011 at 4:02 pm

         No means no (or yes), Owen Glenns donations, baubles of power, lying to HC…

         Its possible (in fact probable) that he is trying to manipulate the public but equally he probably doesn’t trust the guy

         In fact what PG should do is rule out WP as well, that’d get things moving
         • kultur 1.2.1.1.1

           23 February 2011 at 4:48 pm

           Without wishing to unnecessarily complicate matters … the answer lies in a simple acronym …. MMP

           If you want whoredom and compromise and flip flopping … then the recipe is MMP – pollies dont have any choice. After all Key made a deal with Clark and Bradford for that stupid anti smacking legislation. Oldest profession in the world …. Lying – deceit … gods thats part and parcel of the political process. Ever got a straight answer from a pollie … nah

           And as far as WP goes … Fay and Richwhite – the BNZ – the IRD – the winebox …. corruption …

           Question – whats JK (john key) done that has made any difference. he’s spent a lot of money mostly on Beemers and his rich mates investing in SCFinance
         • kriswgtn 1.2.1.1.2

           23 February 2011 at 6:51 pm

           Everytime Key opens his trap he lies

           really whats the difference?
     • kultur 1.2.2

       23 February 2011 at 3:53 pm

       you may prove to be right … but what he has done is put the electorate on notice that Peters is a force to be reckoned with. That is an admission that he may pay dearly for. I dont think the man is as smart as he thinks he is – and he is obviously reading a teleprompter while running the country?? Is that good … i dont think so.

       The economic situation is worsening – even the reserve bank got it wrong – and worse is yet to come. Keys government are becoming increasingly seen as not having a plan. They are furiously pushing buttons in the vain hope they can get the combo right …

       Still – i may well be wrong.
       • Colonial Viper 1.2.2.1

         23 February 2011 at 3:59 pm

         No economic forecasts at the start of the year counted on increasing political instability in the Middle East and popular uprisings against old leaders. Or massive earthquakes.

         Not going to be a good economy year at all. (Nor was it ever going to be).
         • kultur 1.2.2.1.1

           23 February 2011 at 4:43 pm

           Not referring to mid east or earthquakes or other issues … the reserve bank had it wrong before all of those items even occurred. So did most of the economists barring a few.

           The mid east – is a direct outcome of the deteriorating economic situation … not an abberrant occurrence for instance. Interesting how – when the squeeze goes on people in their living standard and back pocket they start to get militant.

           We should all take a lesson
     • interesting 1.2.3

       23 February 2011 at 4:33 pm

       It was interesting that 3news poll shows that 67% agree with Key ruling out Peters.

       As is the One news poll which shows 57% (i Think)

       What I found a little hypocritical was that when the poll showed 60% against partial asset sales Goff said that :”it shows 2 thirds are against nationals plans”

       and yet when a poll showed 60% were against the Tax Free threshold he said “2 thirds of NZers are ill-informed about our plan”
       • kultur 1.2.3.1

         23 February 2011 at 4:55 pm

         Again that nasty little acronym will defy the pollsters …

         MMP

         You cant fight city hall and on the night expediency and the numbers will tell the story
       • The Voice of Reason 1.2.3.2

         23 February 2011 at 7:23 pm

         And if the 33% that think its a good idea are Labour voters that’d be interesting, too.
2. Chris73 2

   23 February 2011 at 3:29 pm

   This is good news, now we’ll see how much of a voice he has on his own
   • kriswgtn 2.1

     23 February 2011 at 3:37 pm

     Dont forget his mother and the fact that MP have sold out their people
     There will be consequences I bet
     • Chris73 2.1.1

       23 February 2011 at 4:12 pm

       I don’t think you can consider the Maori Party like the Green Party or National Party, it may have been founded on one principle (which it achieved albiet not quite how they expected) but I’m thinking alot of Maori would be put of by Hone and his Mums antics
       • Chris73 2.1.1.1

         23 February 2011 at 4:25 pm

         Sorry, remove the “or National Party” or this doesn’t make sense
         • lprent 2.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2011 at 6:18 pm

           I don’t know… I think you were right the first time.

           As far as I can tell the current National Party is a single issue party as well – tax cuts. Everything that they do seems to be orientated to that. They push for that without bothering to look at the downstream costs – stopping payments to the Cullen fund so they could do bigger tax cuts being a prime example.
           • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2011 at 6:24 pm

             I would have thought the single principle was “Wealth Transfer”. Having said that, the National Party was not founded by neo-liberals.
             • lprent …

               23 February 2011 at 8:08 pm

               I did say the current party….
3. kultur 3

   23 February 2011 at 3:43 pm

   Titewhai harawira is a very powerful and capable woman. I agree Kriswgtn – there are going to be consequences and the maori party may join ACT in being flushed down the toilet of politics past

   Whether we like it or not – Maori are key to our sovereignty and the stopping of moves to facilitate foreign ownership of NZ and its assets. The Maori Party would sell their own grandmothers to have a seat at the table. Its all going back to the blankets and tobacco offered to signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi ….
   • kriswgtn 3.1

     23 February 2011 at 3:46 pm

     most my mates are Maori- theyre not going to vote for MP this year
     Theyre all going back to labour

     Most have said to me-Theyve done nothing for us but sell us to National
   • Colonial Viper 3.2

     23 February 2011 at 3:48 pm

     Its all going back to the blankets and tobacco offered to signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi ….

     Well why not sell out if they also include a couple of barrels of whisky and a free BMW limo ride? A great deal by anyones accounting.
4. ak 4

   23 February 2011 at 3:44 pm

   Not a bad outcome.

   Maori Party weakened but not destroyed, Hone now free to rip into NACT with all due vim.

   Doubt we’ll see a word from him against the MP or vicky verco.

   We’ll have to wait for the book to find out what NACT threatened to withold unless Hone went.

   But hopefully only till November for utu.
5. Santi 5

   23 February 2011 at 4:00 pm

   Another racist has fallen.
   • kultur 5.1

     23 February 2011 at 4:33 pm

     I honestly dont think he’s racist … i think he would call himself a nationalist trying to preserve something of his culture and way of life and world view.

     You hold a lengthy conversation with some ethnicities in NZ – and you will see that many of them – have the same world view … only its aligned to their own ethno-religious-cultural viewpoint. they dont see it as racist (although it is ethnically specific and a closed loop) – at least Hone doesnt work by stealth and clandestine ethnocentric actions – he does it upfront and in the clear. More than can be said for some.

     And have to say – he hasnt fallen – people laughed at and dismissed Jim Anderton – but that man has left his mark on New Zealand no matter what you think about his politics. I disagreed with Kiwibank – now i’m damn glad he stuck to his guns.

     Some of us are going to be grateful to Harawira and his stance come November i think too
6. swordfish 6

   23 February 2011 at 4:06 pm

   So no new Hone-led Left Party, then ?
7. marty mars 7

   23 February 2011 at 4:29 pm

   Hone could now lead the new hikoi against the F&S Act and it’s even worse replacement. That hopefully could lead to good energy going into creating an alternative maori party to contest the seats, eventually.

   Hone as an independent will be strong but IMO he needs a good team around him.
8. Joe Carolan 8

   23 February 2011 at 4:57 pm

   Any new political movement will come about by genuine dialogue between those of us who are activie in fighting for the working poor and unemployed. So wouldn’t rule anything out yet, Swordfish. Read what is written on the press release-

   “Hone Harawira has left the Maori Party and says he will contest the
   general election as either an independent or a member of a new political
   movement.”
   • The Voice of Reason 8.1

     23 February 2011 at 7:40 pm

     Good point, Joe. Of course it wouldn’t necessarily be be the fantasy left party though. Harawira First has a nice ring, don’t ya think? And if he gets enough party votes, his mum would be a terrific addition to the debating chamber. Can’t wait.

     The weird thing is that mutual commitment to not stand against each other in the Maori seats. I’d like to think that any genuine left party wouldn’t have a bar of such a capitulation to the rightist Maori Party MP’s. And it says so much about Hone’s own personal failings that he’d put keeping his job above the needs of his electorate.
     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       23 February 2011 at 7:57 pm

       I’d like to think that any genuine left party wouldn’t have a bar of such a capitulation to the rightist Maori Party MP’s. And it says so much about Hone’s own personal failings that he’d put keeping his job above the needs of his electorate.

       Not sure how agreeing to not compete in other seats = Hone abdicating championing the needs of his electorate?

       The agreement between Hone and the Mp probably prevented a protracted and destructive legal battle. How does that not address the needs of his electorate?

       Further we don’t know what guns the two sides were pointing at each other during the negotiations. There might be other very good reasons why they decided not to go nuclear on each other.
       • The Voice of Reason 8.1.1.1

         23 February 2011 at 8:29 pm

         It stops him forming a party that might actively challenge the sellouts. There will be plenty of voters in all those seats that would have liked the option of a left wing Maori party as well as the right wing Maori Party.

         This arrangement leaves it as a straight fight between the MP Tories and Labour in the other seats, which is a much easier prospect, electorally. It’s a gutless, self centred cave in to the people he claims to oppose.
         • marty mars 8.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2011 at 11:12 pm

           I agree with the fact that we need an alternative (left) maori party but that will take time to build – but don’t get me wrong – I wish it was here yesterday. It is hardly gutless or self centred to leave the party you helped form because of principle – it seems the opposite to me.
9. gobsmacked 9

   23 February 2011 at 4:57 pm

   Ultimately this is good news for the left-leaning parties.

   The Maori Party has, in effect, given up on the party vote – or being a broad-based movement. The party shell exists now, only to protect the careers (baubles) of four electorate MPs.

   So in the party vote, there’s an extra 2% or so up for grabs. If Hone forms a viable party, he could bring in another list MP. More likely, Labour and the Greens will benefit.

   Vote-splitting in the Maori electorates could decide the next election.
10. Jenny 10

    23 February 2011 at 10:04 pm

    The interesting thing.

    The way has now been cleared for the Labour Party and the Maori Party to be in coalition.

    As Phil Goff is on record as saying he would never go into coalition with the Maori Party with Harawira in it.

    Now he has no excuse.

    If Labour really want to govern they need to mount a major charm offensive to towards the Maori Party.

    So what does Labour need to do, if it wants to stop the Maori Party staying with the Nats?

    1# Repeal the Foreshore and Seabed legislation and go back to the pre ’07 status quo.

    2# Offer to keep Whanau Ora and legislate to make it more equitable and universal and worthwhile.

    3# Offer to not stand any Labour candidates in seats contested by the Maori Party.

    All three of these proposals would be very difficult for Labour to swallow. The last probably the most.

    But the last will be the one that gets the most attention, from the media and the electorate.

    The message is: That we think that another term of this National Government will be a national disaster, this is why we are taking this action.

    Actions Speak Louder than Words.

    You can shout, “Another term of this National Government will be a national disaster” till you are blue in the face.

    But by this single act I expect that the urgency of this message will get through.

    As a result I imagine there could well be an immediate surge in the polls as the message this act conveys hits home.

    Also –

    If all Maori Labour supporters were to vote for the MP but give the LP their party vote.

    This could create an overhang, with the Maori Party being in the position to deliver another two seats to a Labour led government.

    There it is. A Labour led government in the can.

    Does Labour really want to Govern?

    Or would Labour be more content to spend one more term in opposition, counting on the fact that Labour will be able to lead the house without need for pesky coalition partners come 2014. on account it will be very apparent by then how damaging National is.

    capcha – “losss”
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      23 February 2011 at 10:10 pm

      Hmmm NAT giving Hide the run of Epsom was a travesty of democracy. Now you are saying LAB should do the same for the Mp in multiple electorates? …If the Mp is that weak in grassroots electoral support why let them survive?

      By the way, Harawira is not the biggest issue in a LAB/Mp tie up, never was: Turia is. She is still there.
      • Jenny 10.1.1

        23 February 2011 at 10:19 pm

        That’s right, it’s a gerrymander.

        But there it is.

        The point is Do we want a National Government for another 3 years or not?

        captcha – “TASKS”
        • Jenny 10.1.1.1

          23 February 2011 at 10:32 pm

          “By the way, Harawira is not the biggest issue in a LAB/Mp tie up, never was: Turia is. She is still there.”

          Colonial Viper

          Harawira was the MP mp that Goff said he couldn’t work with. He never mentioned Turia or any other mp.

          In fact from my recall of his statement Harawira was his only objection to the MP as a coalition partner.

          captcha – “someone”
          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1

            23 February 2011 at 11:16 pm

            I thought it quite well known that Turia has an inherent, personal, long standing and apparently unshakeable dislike of Labour. Am I wrong?
      • Jenny 10.1.2

        23 February 2011 at 11:19 pm

        Generally I’m a purist when it comes to democracy.

        And against any kind of gerrymander.

        But if the need is great it is not unprecedented for the left to use this tactic.

        Witness for instance what is going on in Wisconsin, where Democratic senators have fled the state, to deny the Republican dominated senate a quorum to vote in anti-union laws.

        Reuters

        While on the surface this move can be seen as undemocratic, ie a minority dictating to a majority in fact it is helping mobilise and enthuse an often jaded blue collar majority.

        For the ability to engender and enthuse the grass roots such a tactic is far stronger than words, even well spoken words by Obama that, “we are with you”.

        captcha – “businesss”
    • The Voice of Reason 10.2

      23 February 2011 at 10:23 pm

      But why would Labour want to suck up to these self serving pricks, Jenny? May as well propose a deal with ACT if its just about being the Government. I want Labour to lead a left coalition, or at worst, a left + Winston arrangement, that leads to better lives for the majority of Kiwis. The Maori Party has shown itself to be a reactionary vehicle for the enrichment of their MP’s and nothing more. The further away from them the Labour Party stays, the better the chances of a left(ish) Government in November.
      • Jenny 10.2.1

        23 February 2011 at 10:34 pm

        Labour Led

        Not MP Led
        • The Voice of Reason 10.2.1.1

          23 February 2011 at 10:56 pm

          Serious question, Jenny. Do you know if Turia and Sharples are turning down the new Beemers? I’ve googled the hell out of it and but can’t find the answer.
          • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1

            23 February 2011 at 11:13 pm

            No way they are turning down the new Beemers, nor Ministerial positions in any future National Government.
            • marty mars 10.2.1.1.1.1

              23 February 2011 at 11:19 pm

              That’s true CV – but has any MP from any party turned down a car or something similar, relating to their position? – I can’t remember
              • The Voice of Reason …

                23 February 2011 at 11:26 pm

                Hmmm, didn’t Phil Goff give up the limo in favour of taxis?
                • Colonial Viper …

                  23 February 2011 at 11:30 pm

                  Sort of.

                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3376174/Goff-to-cut-limo-use-after-70-000-bill
    • ak 10.3

      23 February 2011 at 10:38 pm

      You’re onto it in principle Jenny – but 1 & 2 can wait till post-election and 3 is out: a self-Orewa One and unnecessary. Charm offensive certainly, but ultimately that Lab vote must rise. And only grass-roots work will do it. The real question is; do Labour activists really want Labour to govern?
      • Jilly Bee 10.3.1

        23 February 2011 at 11:40 pm

        @ak – I do, and have put my money where my mouth is and have rejoined the Labour Party [Waitakere Electorate] after leaving Mt Albert electorate in 2005. Hope I can help, I am in my mid sixties [damn it] and still work pretty much full time, but hope to be able to do some foot slogging and deliver pamphlets etc. Need to get Carmel Sepuloni elected as our MP for Waitakere.
    • Draco T Bastard 10.4

      24 February 2011 at 12:37 am

      3# Offer to not stand any Labour candidates in seats contested by the Maori Party.

      What if the people in those electorates don’t want to vote for the MP candidates and do want to vote for the Labour ones? IIRC, the MP had about 3% support across the nation at the last election and now that support has halved. IMO, with Hone leaving their support has most likely dropped even more.

      It’s not guaranteed that the MP will even be in government after the next election and they’re only looking at the Maori Seats.
      • Jenny 10.4.1

        24 February 2011 at 7:26 pm

        If they want any possibility for a Labour led coalition, they had better vote Maori Party.

        Only the Maori Party has the possibility to deliver the necessary numbers to make up the Lab. Green coalition to take the Treasury benches. (Whether they get those numbers and/or give them to the Labour Party is another story)

        In the last election some Labour supporters in Remuera tactically voted National, in an attempt to defeat Rodney getting the seat. If they had been successful ACT would not have been able to keep the National Party in government.

        (Yes, there are Labour supporters in Remuera.)

        captcha – “life”
11. ianmac 11

    23 February 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Be interesting to see if the numbers of people who voted MP last time change at the next election. Wonder how many who supported MP will shift allegiance to a possible Hone party in protest?
    • marty mars 11.1

      23 February 2011 at 11:15 pm

      I will and I think others will too – but there has to be something to vote for and I hope they sort that out sooner than later.
12. ianmac 12

    23 February 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Herald: “”Hone Harawira’s decision to quit the Maori Party and become an independent MP is a sensible outcome to an irreconcilable situation,” Prime Minister John Key says.”

    Thought Mr Key did not comment on other party’s actions?
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      23 February 2011 at 11:32 pm

      How did Key know that the situation was “irreconcilable” anways? Who told him?
      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        24 February 2011 at 12:44 am

        I suspect that’s what he told the Maori Party.
    • Jenny 12.2

      27 February 2011 at 4:05 pm

      From ianmac:

      Herald: “”Hone Harawira’s decision to quit the Maori Party and become an independent MP is a sensible outcome to an irreconcilable situation,” Prime Minister John Key says.”

      Be careful what you wish for

      Harawira expulsion may be Key’s undoing

      “The political story of the week – which would have got far more attention if it hadn’t been for the tragedy in Christchurch – was the parting of ways between Hone Harawira and the Maori Party.
      When people are dying on a massive scale, political manoeuvering, quite rightly, is shunted way down the news cycle.”

      Matt McCarten

      captcha – “replacing” National Led coalition, with Labour Led coalition
13. SPC 13

    24 February 2011 at 12:34 am

    The betting option is for the MP to lose the southern seat and become a Turia-Sharples tribal vehicle more than a nationwide party. That leaves them and Labour with 3 seats. But there is a chance for Labour do better and thus the MP will have some explaining to do about why they deserve continuing support.

    The MP might fall to 1.5% in the party vote (still 2 seats) – so only 1 seat overhang. This is compensated for by those parties not getting any seats.

    The real question is what the northern seat MP will do if he is restrained from forming a party to compete in the other Maori seats (because the Labour Party might crush the MP in the other 6 seats he will consider building a new Maori party to contest electorates in 2014). So his choices are he can form a left wing vehicle to contest the party vote, or a rival Maori party contesting the party vote only (and build for 2014). Can he do both by having a bi-cultural party with two wings?
    • ianmac 13.1

      24 February 2011 at 7:59 pm

      I think that Rino Tirakatene (sp) is standing for the southern seat for Labour with a good chance of winning it.
14. mikesh 14

    24 February 2011 at 10:50 am

    The Maori Party believe that “out of government” they can achieve nothing, whereas “in government” they can achieve something, even if not as much as they would like. This is still a fairly strong argument. Hone’s main beef with the party is the dead rats they have to swallow to remain “in government”.

    As to the foreshore and seabed, I think that crown ownership as provided for in Labour’s original act is the best option, though Hone and the party both want full ownership. Are they both in fact banging their heads against a brick wall?

Links to post

1. The Standard: posted on 23 February 2011 at 2:21 am
2. Daryl Hall: posted on 23 February 2011 at 6:52 am
3. Peet Yssel: posted on 23 February 2011 at 10:38 am

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