Hone stands by principles on foreshore

Written By: - Date published: 11:20 am, September 14th, 2010 - 52 comments
Categories: foreshore and seabed, john key, Maori Issues, maori party, Maori seats - Tags:

Stuff is reporting that Hone Harawira will not vote for the Nats’ foreshore and seabed legislation. And John Key is clearly upset.

Maori Party MP Hone Harawira will not support legislation replacing the Foreshore and Seabed Act, Prime Minister John Key has confirmed.

Mr Key said Maori party co-leader Tariana Turia told him this morning that “they’d lost one of the sheep in the flock.” It didn’t take long to guess it was Mr Harawira, he said.

The other four Maori MPs will support the Marine and Coastal Area Bill, which is due to have its first reading in Parliament this week.

“It’s highly predictable and quite frankly we would never be able to pass legislation that would satisfy Hone Harawira,” Mr Key said. “Nor should we, because that would not reflect the views of the majority of New Zealanders.

“If he doesn’t vote for it, I don’t care.”

Sounds like someone needs the whambulance. Key’s just lost the ability to claim that he has genuinely circled the square, giving Pakeha and Maori both what they want. All he has really done is bought off the Maori Party leadership.

Good on Hone for standing up for his principles. The conceit that the Nats’ reimagining of labour’s law substantially changes things might be good enough for some but those who actually want change, rather than power for themselves, could never support it.

Looking more long-term and strategically, this sets up Harawira as the only Maori Party MP who can lead the party back to its left-wing values and credibly push for a better deal on the foreshore and seabed in the future.

52 comments on “Hone stands by principles on foreshore ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Bright Red 1
    14 September 2010 at 11:24 am

    Agreed that Hone has positioned himself as the only credible leader of the Maori Party. The rest are sellouts.

    • Craig Glen Eden 1.1
      14 September 2010 at 12:01 pm

      But But Mr Key and Tariana said it was all good and the Maori Party had delivered on the very issue that caused the Maori Party to be founded on. Surely Tariana has not been doing a political smoke and Mirrors job on her own people.

  2. Lanthanide 2
    14 September 2010 at 11:59 am

    “And John Key is clearly upset.”
    vs
    “If he doesn’t vote for it, I don’t care.”

    Doesn’t seem clearly upset to me.

    • Craig Glen Eden 2.1
      14 September 2010 at 12:06 pm

      His upset alright “if he does not play with me I dont care any way because he is just a……”

    • pollywog 2.2
      14 September 2010 at 3:34 pm

      Maybe when 30 000 Nga Puhi and affiliates hikoi in protest he’ll care and be mightily upset…

      …and when they sway other major iwi to the cause, he’ll regret thinking he could buy off fickle Maori Party voters by playing semantic word games.

  3. Lew 3
    14 September 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Hooton’s line on this (regular politics spot yesterday on NatRad) is that Hone is ‘waiting for his inheritance’ as the party’s leader when Sharples/Turia retire. I suspect Hooton’s purpose in saying so echoes Key’s here: an attempt to tar Hone, the māori party and the tino rangatiratanga movement in general with the ‘dangerous activist’ brush — but he’s bang on. What Key and Hooton perhaps still don’t quite get is that the māori party aren’t really answerable to the electorate in the same way as the other parties are: they’re answerable to the Māori electorates, and on an individual basis, at that.

    L

    • ghostwhowalksnz 3.1
      14 September 2010 at 12:20 pm

      Key can still resurrect Nationals ( dormant) policy to abolish the Maori Seats if his pet kuri get all stroppy

      • Lew 3.1.1
        14 September 2010 at 12:41 pm

        But he won’t, because it’s a major constitutional topic on which he’d need to seek an electoral mandate. Labour & Green would come out strong against it, all Māori and many Pākehā would vote en bloc with them, and he wouldn’t get that mandate. One of the things which put National into government this time around was Māori staying home. That would be one sure-fire way to get them out and voting by the minibus-load.

        L

        • m 3.1.1.1
          14 September 2010 at 4:44 pm

          Lew, if I remember rightly none of the research done in the NZES shows that pakeha would vote ‘en bloc’ with Maori to retain the Maori seats. quite the opposite

        • Lew 3.1.1.2
          15 September 2010 at 7:53 am

          Not all of them, no. But potentially enough. It’s the sort of touchstone issue which will force peoples’ hands.

          L

    • Tiger Mountain 3.2
      14 September 2010 at 5:54 pm

      Hone’s MCAB position is the only Maori Party news that’s cheered me up recently. Hone rarely enunciates his full background clearly, why should he, and who does, but he knows the late 70s/80s/90s polemic and actions from a left position as well as an iwi one. I maintain a flicker of that remains with him, and he will need it if he is to be “last man standing” prior to some rebuilding of the MP.

  4. George 4
    14 September 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I reckon this will be exactly the signal Key needs to convince his base he’s not “soft on maoris”.

    • Bright Red 4.1
      14 September 2010 at 12:38 pm

      there’s a very well-funded rightwing campaign saying the opposite.

      Key’s lucky Labour’s not playing silly buggers like the Nats did in 2004 or numbers would be very close for this bill:

      nats, 58. MP, 4. Dunne, 1. Is only 63

  5. marty mars 5
    14 September 2010 at 12:27 pm

    That sheep line will come back to haunt them – it is all over now IMO as the maoriparty/gnat top and tail unravels

  6. Jim Nald 6
    14 September 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Hone has got spine

  7. smhead 7
    14 September 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Good think Key didn’t call Hone a hater and a wrecker, or the last cab off the rank. Then he’d never be able to work with Hone.

    • Blighty 7.1
      14 September 2010 at 12:52 pm

      you’re living in the past, smhead, quit living in the past.

      • smhead 7.1.1
        14 September 2010 at 3:43 pm

        Okay we’ll go to more recent times then blighty, Shane Jones wants to destroy the Maori Party. I don’t think Hone has such a short memory.

        • pollywog 7.1.1.1
          14 September 2010 at 3:53 pm

          Shane and Hone are whanaunga and blood is thinker than water. Nga Puhi is blood. Maori Party is water.

          Hone’s shared memory, like Shane’s go way back to pre Maori party days and i’m pretty sure Shanes views on their destruction would be the bare butt of many a Harawira joke shared over a few bevvies cos when it comes right down to it is all water under the bridge.

          I’ve no doubt they’ve both got their eyes firmly on the prize and the best interests of their iwi at heart.

          • smhead 7.1.1.1.1
            14 September 2010 at 4:00 pm

            Oh yeah that’s why Jones was in the labour caucus that introduced the foreshore and seabed bill that saw the founding of the maori party.

            • pollywog 7.1.1.1.1.1
              14 September 2010 at 4:05 pm

              Pffftttt…Labour, National, NZ first, Maori party, they’re all shit and wind !!!

              Iwi blood ties and the mana of an individual leader hold way more sway over the fickle Maori voters than any political affiliation.

              • Puddleglum …
                14 September 2010 at 10:43 pm

                From what I’ve heard, you’re right Pollywog.

                So far, my understanding is this – Maori politics is primarily about two things: Whanau/hapu ties in the ongoing political positioning internal to Maoridom (the real Maori politics); and, the tino rangatiratanga long-game when strategising externally, within the Pakeha world and its institutions.

                What Pakeha call ‘politics’ and ‘modern liberal democracy’ is simply a means, not an end.

                Have I got it about right? (I’m no expert – I’m just trying to understand)

                • pollywog …
                  15 September 2010 at 9:27 am

                  I’d concur with that PG 🙂

                  Mana is the key. You’ve either got it or you haven’t and when you got it, the people will move to stand beside and behind you, and when you haven’t, or have lost it, you’ll find yourself out in the cold, shouting in the wind to no one.

                  I reckon Tari and Pita should think about throwing one of them dog skin cloaks around them and huddling up cos it could get mighty cold and lonesome real soon.

                  Don’t know about means justifying the ends but in the old school ways…anything goes and it’s the long game that counts.

                  ‘Tino rangatiratanga’ though, cannot rest with a political party unless it has the support of the rangatira, through hapu and iwi, and it’s in rangatira’s best interests not to become to affiliated to closely to any political party.

                  Thing is, if the Maori party see this bill as the end game on the foreshore/seabed, then their raison d’etre ceases to exist and they should then do the honourable thing and disband.

                  Their mandate, as they state, was to repeal the previous bill, so their one trick pony party status has been played out, job done…and as for Whanau Ora.

                  It still sounds like something cashed up iwi should run or expand upon, independent of the gov’t, but in parallel with existing social services and initiated by rangatira with a genuine concern for the welfare of their iwi and hapu, as per the conditions of the treaty.

                  The iwi leaders forum really need to step up and state their position but they won’t or cant without Nga puhi and Tuhoe having substantial treaty putea to bring to the table first.

                  Can’t see that happening soon if the deal breaker is the northern beaches and the Ureweras respectively.

                  catch 22…rinse and repeat

                  IMHO

                  • Lew …
                    15 September 2010 at 9:44 am

                    ‘Tino rangatiratanga’ though, cannot rest with a political party unless it has the support of the rangatira, through hapu and iwi

                    This is the thing — the Iwi Leadership Group, made up of those rangatira, recommended supporting the new F&S deal. So Tariana and Pita — whose job isn’t so much to carve their own way as it is to represent the declared wishes of their people — were in a bind. They might hate and despise the law, as Hone does, but if the people, according to the representation of their rangatira, want it then they have a certain responsibility to support it.

                    I don’t think this is a concrete responsibility, and on that ground I believe their own personal discretion should have come into it, and weighed against them supporting the act. But I also believe the ILG should have recommended that they do so. That they didn’t indicates a disconnect, either between the ILG and those they claim to represent, or between those of us on the outside (but who claim some knowledge of such matters) and the ILG. I’m more prepared to concede that I don’t know the true needs or wishes of those people represented by the ILG than I am to argue that I know better than the ILG in this case. Hone’s breaking ranks indicates that it is by no means a settled or unanimous matter, and that gives me some hope. The real test will be the election, and I look forward to those who’ve read it wrong and are misrepresenting their peoples’ interest — from whichever side they might come — being punished for it.

                    L

    • BLiP 7.2
      14 September 2010 at 1:05 pm

      Just as well he doesn’t call Maori cannibals . . . oh, hang on.

    • bbfloyd 7.3
      14 September 2010 at 2:32 pm

      sm… being bitchy again? is it just because you can, or is it just the limits of your intellect?

  8. ABC 8
    14 September 2010 at 1:03 pm

    the whaaaambulance

    LOL

  9. Bored 9
    14 September 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Hone lost me when he talked about “no pakeha boyfriends” for his children…..it would appear that he is just as big an unreconstructed racist as the worst on my side of the fence. Which is a real shame as he is the only MP person who does not appear a sell out to NACT.

    • Lanthanide 9.1
      14 September 2010 at 7:52 pm

      Actually “no pakeha boyfriends” is a mis-quote out of context of what he actually said (yes, the media got it wrong, again!).

      Here’s a quote from a follow up statement of Hone’s that should make it clear:
      “Fathers have been having hopes and dreams and fears about who their little girls bring home, ever since Moses was a baby. I didn’t say I wouldn’t let them into my house, neither did I say I would stop my kids going out with them. All I said was, that I wouldn’t feel comfortable”.

      Listen to Mediawatch here for an investigation (first 8:50) into the whole matter, that clears it up:
      http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mwatch/mwatch-20100815-0908-Mediawatch_for_15_August_2010-048.mp3

  10. Ron 10
    14 September 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Hone HAS sold out to NACT by being part of the unhokly NACT alliance. He can “stand on his principles” over the foreshoe to his heart’s content – it doesn’t erase the fact the the MP have supported the Tories while they have started their nasty campaign against New Zealanders.
    He has ONE choice if he’s to redeem himself and that’s to walk from the party. Now.

  11. martin 11
    14 September 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Maori Party returning to their left wing ideals? You have got to be joking. Where or when have they done anything for the poor?

  12. pollywog 12
    14 September 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Hone is Nga Puhi first and foremost. They haven’t settled treaty claims, of which a big part of it would be foreshore seabed,coastline or whatever,

    He therefore doesn’t have the mandate of his people to sign something on their behalf.

    The Maori party are not representative of iwi nor Tai Tokerau, the seat which encompasses Nga Puhi rohe, so also do not have the mandate to sign on behalf of them or in fact any iwi.

    I would expcet major ructions within Maoridom as to exactly what right does the Maori party have to sign on behalf of independent sovereign iwi, each of whom have their own leaders who may or may not be Maori party affilliated.

    Hones postion is the only tenable one he can hold until his iwi say they are prepeared to accept what the current gov’t have put on the table.

    Fucked if anything Pita, Tariana and co sign would be worth the paper it’s printed on.

    • Bored 12.1
      14 September 2010 at 3:50 pm

      Bugger because that is a convenient out for the MP, i.e “its not our fault, we cant sign for the iwi”…so the useless Pita and Turiana have a get out of jail free card. Slippery eels.

  13. pollywog 13
    14 September 2010 at 4:00 pm

    yup…due process would see them table the offer to iwi thru established channels and act on the will of the people.

    they cant sign nothing and support nothing with any credibility and i’m pickin you wont hear boo from the iwi leaders forum either until Tari and Pita deem themselves representative of Maori to sign.

    it’ll be their political death warrant they’d be signing if they don’t follow due process.

  14. Ron 14
    14 September 2010 at 4:05 pm

    It’s all “blah blah blah” as long as they tay part of the NACT alliance

  15. pmofnz 15
    14 September 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Mr Hone Hatfield has principles? Come now, he is a politician.

  16. Johnno 16
    14 September 2010 at 5:23 pm

    As someone who lives in the same town as Harawira, he may think he has principle but I can assure you that there is not much to admire about him as a person. He is a complete wanker prancing around with his chest out thinking his shit doesn’t stink. He is genuinely hated up here (and not just by the whites) and he is becoming more and more ostracised by people who used to like him.

    • Tiger Mountain 16.1
      14 September 2010 at 7:58 pm

      Bollocks Johnno. You must move in some unpleasant tory circles. He has reasons to have his chest out, one of which being that his stomach has not overtaken it like the smoking, boozing, unfit portion of the Kaitaia and Awanui population.

  17. ghostwhowalksnz 17
    14 September 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Overall I think Hones opposition is a bit too ‘orchestrated’.

    The Maori party have it both ways.

    National has Labours old foreshore act with a bit more kumara in the hangi both accepted and reviled.
    The red necks can say Hone is pissed off – good riddance.
    Key can say no worries, Turia can say job done.
    Meanwhile SCF depositors get more than the fiscal envelope for treaty settlements so the full and final settlements is undermined, the new foreshore bill wont be near useful in 5 years and were are back where we started

  18. peterlepaysan 18
    14 September 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Hey! MARTY G!
    When will Hone Harawira ever agree to anything?

    He is a complete wanker.

    What Hone wants, Hone gets.

    Nothing else matters.

    Bugger Iwi.
    Bugger Maori.
    Bugger the rest of us.

    Hone rules and Marty kisses the proverbial.

    Zeesh! This is such an intelligent post.

  19. Johnno 19
    15 September 2010 at 9:24 am

    I don”t move in any political circles. People aren’t overly ideological about the Labour/National thing here. Harawira is simply an arrogant wanker.

    • pollywog 19.1
      15 September 2010 at 9:41 am

      So bust up on him and put it to him ‘kanohi te kanohi’ !!!

      If it’s something you think Hone needs to hear, then grow a pair and tell him. It’s his job to listen to his constituents, though if you’re a white muthafucka i would expect a reply in kind.

      so maybe record it on some secret camera and youtube it, if you want to go for the really bitch move takedown 🙂

  20. Swampy 20
    26 September 2010 at 1:22 am

    You mean Harawira is the only MP who can lead the Maori party to electoral oblivion. Has it occurred to you perhaps that the majority think Hone is a redneck and have blocked their ears to the Iwi vested interests whining that the foreshore and seabed act is not generous enough. Considering after all that iwi members are entitled to the same benefits of civilisation in this country as anyone else yet here they are with their hands out for special treatment, a lot of people will simply not vote for that.

    • Pascal's bookie 20.1
      26 September 2010 at 10:33 am

      Firstly, if iwi are entitled to the same benefits as everyone else, then they are entitled to have wrongs redressed. That’s not special treatment, is getting the same treatment as everyone else. You get to have wrongs redressed when you prove wrongs have been committed. Till then, do some reading. Learn your history.

      Secondly, Hone is an electorate mp. Whether or not the majority of the country likes him is of no meaning whatsoever. This applies to all the mP mp’s. Do some reading, learn your electoral system.

      Thirdly, lay off the drugs.

Links to post

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.