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How To Get There 1/9/19

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 1st, 2019 - 26 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:


This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

26 comments on “How To Get There 1/9/19”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    So, about Greta…

    “Is there something big going on here? This one kid immediately got twenty supporters who now sit next to her. This one kid created numerous news stories in national newspapers and on TV. This one kid has received thousands of messages of love and support on social media…. Movements by young people, such as Jaime Margolin’s #ThisIsZeroHour that #WeDontHaveTime interviewed earlier, speaks with a much needed urgency that grown-ups should pay attention to…” [Emphasis in original]

    Yes – there was, and still is, something going on.

    It’s called marketing and branding.

    “Yesterday I sat completely by myself, today there is one other here too. There are none [that] I know.” — Greta Thunberg, August 21, 2018,  Nyheter newspaper, Sweden [Translation via Google]

    The “one kid immediately got twenty supporters” – from a Swedish network for sustainable business. What is going on – is the launch of a global campaign to usher in a required consensus for the Paris Agreement, the New Green Deal and all climate related policies and legislation written by the power elite – for the power elite. This is necessary in order to unlock the trillions of dollars in funding by way of massive public demand.

    These agreements and policies include carbon capture storage (CCS), enhanced oil recovery (EOR), bio-energy with carbon capture and storage (BECCS), rapid total decarbonization, payments for ecosystem services (referred to as “natural capital”), nuclear energy and fission, and a host of other “solutions” that are hostile to an already devastated planet. What is going on – is a rebooting of a stagnant capitalist economy, that needs new markets – new growth – in order to save itself. What is being created is a  mechanism to unlock approximately 90 trillion dollars for new investments and infrastructure. What is going on is the creation of, and investment in, perhaps the biggest behavioural change experiment yet attempted, global in scale. And what are the deciding factors in what behaviours global society should adhere to? And more importantly, who decides? This is a rhetorical question as we know full well the answer: the same Western white male saviours and the capitalist economic system they have implemented globally that has been the cause of our planetary ecological nightmare. This crisis continues unabated as they appoint themselves (yet again) as the saviours for all humanity – a recurring problem for centuries."

    Makes me think, this. Does it make you think also?


  2. Its a long read Robert, and I'm just starting, but was struck with this , right at the start …apropos of the new hashtag call to arms ..#We Don't Have Time

    "We don’t have time to stop imperialist wars – wars being the greatest contributor to climate change and environmental degradation by far – but we must do so. "

    I am really struck by the absence of anti militarism in most of the climate catastrophe debates.In fact often there is a call to beef up the military.

    And the further commodification /financialisation of the natural world is a worry.Its a kind of realpolitik I suppose, giving up on the possibility of real and radical change in our way of being in the world, and cravenly accepting  that our only incentive to change will be money.


    I'll keep reading, 



    • Dukeofurl 2.1

      "wars being the greatest contributor to climate change and environmental degradation by far"

      So you have walked the shattered fields of the Somme  and the Normandy beaches, and Warsaw  after the massive destruction.


      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        DukeofUrl comes up with a sneer.    Like a weed in the vegetable garden.  May I always be one of the humble vegetables that have a use, rather than a quick, alert weed rising and crowding out potential useful growth.

  3. Robert Guyton 3

    Farrrk, indeed, francesca.

    The thought that industry will only cease it's destructive activity when it has a replacement ready to go, is not a new one, nor a difficult one to believe.

  4. Robert Guyton 4

    Discovering the world of mycorrhizal fungi and the networking services they provide for trees was an exciting step in my understanding (such as it is) of forests and the marvellous, complex beings they seem to be, but only yesterday did I unearth this new "chapter" of the story:


    Just wonderful, in my view!

    • weka 4.1

      Reading now. Fungi catching leaves and twigs as they fall from above!

      • weka 4.1.1

        that was a lovely read. What are you thinking about rhizomorphs in NZ? I'm wondering now if some things I've seen in the bush that I assumed were plant parts were actually fungal.

    • Dukeofurl 5.1

      Hahaha… the things MPs will do for photo opportunities…..but not during the 3 weeks of the prorogation that meant they werent in Westminister anyway…its still  summer after all


  5. Robert Guyton 6

    It's a very lovely day today and I suspect most HTGT contributors, being keen gardenerssmiley are outside, scratching around in the warming spring-soil. I'm in and out, enjoying the garden but writing about it also, for my up-coming column of Get Growing.

    "Gather pussy-willow and decorate your living spaces with it while you can! It’s a spring-thing, pussy-willow; the furry catkins of many willow species; usually the smaller ones, are the “pussies” and very appealing they are too, arranged along the stems that can be collected at this time of the year. My favourite pussies grow on the stems of the violet willow and are surely the whitest of all the pussies and contrast beautifully with the dark violet of the stems. Other pussies are bigger, but none as vivid. The secret of keeping pussies sound and un-blown, is to display them in a vase that has no water at all in it; if the willow stems are watered, the pussies continue to develop and “blow-out”, passing through their bee-attracting, stamens-and-stigmas-on-display stage and fall apart all over the dining room table, making a mess.  Have your children or grand-children collect them with you; they’ll remember the experience forever."

    • RosieLee 6.1

      But can you eat them?

      • greywarshark 6.1.1

        Those purple willows sound attractive.   I have never seen any that could be called purple.   I suppose they would be too big for a backyard.   Do you sell cuttings of them?

        • Robert Guyton

          "The violet willow, Salix. daphnoides forms an initially upright, later spreading tree. The young shoots are dark purple with a silvery bloom in winter. Silky, grey catkins up to 4cm long are produced in late winter/early spring"

          The pussies are really stunning! The tree, like any willow, is easily managed by coppicing; the problems come when they are left un-attended-to, like any willow (bar the weeping willow, which needs nothing done to it). 

          I don't sell them, but I'll see what I can do for you 🙂

  6. greywarshark 7

    Thinking about our future as people and how we will process ourselves and our thoughts.

    Jim Mora on this morning with bits about baby's names and the psychological effect of the choice.   A comment on how good it is for family life and happiness to have Dad’s leave from their jobs for a period legislated for. Then a discussion on suicide in NZ and our statistics being high and so on.    I have thought that he would tend to dumb down the content for Sunday morning to suit the culture of middle-class Mums.   Heaven prevent them from hearing something outside their preferred bath of consumer materialistic guff.  

    There is a feeling of Brave New World about this suicide discussion.   The denizens of the in-society gathering around an interesting problem, looking at it, discussing it, and wondering what danger it may present to their children.   It can be described as a negative result from grappling with existential matters that can't be compassed in the minds of vulnerable youngsters and middle-aged.   They have given up trying to cope, or had a Road to Damascus shock which has exposed the ignored cracks in our societal simulation.   This is of some concern to us, as to the gathered crowds come to watch John the Savage in Brave New World whipping himself in self-abnegation.

    The government of Brave New World retains control by making its citizens so happy and superficially fulfilled that they don't care about their personal freedom. In Brave New World the consequences of state control are a loss of dignity, morals, values, and emotions—in short, a loss of humanity.     This from Sparknotes on google.

    In these excerpts from the end of the book John the Savage discusses the methods with the Controller and rejects his few options.

    BRAVE NEW WORLD  by Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

    This from Margaret Atwood – comment encompassing Brave New World and Orwell's 1984 is very insightful, with black humour.  (From 2007.)

    • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1

      "When Nikki Mandow made a podcast about whether growth is good – she didn't expect to start an international incident.

      But Kate Raworth issued a challenge and Arthur Grimes accepted… so we sat back and enjoyed the fireworks."


      This has probably already been posted elsewhere on The Standard, but I've just listened to the debate on this afternoon's RNZ programme, and really enjoyed it.

      By the end Grimes, for all his progressive posturing, had been reduced to scaremonging ("authoritarian", "standard of living") to make his case for BAU with tweaks.

      Being wedded to growth is essentially little different to being wedded to a neverending rise in the standard of living.  Of course most of the world's population is in need of improved standards of living – in places that need is acute/desperate.

      In NZ, however, that need is not so acute for a sizeable proportion of the population.  I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want.  I can fly around the globe whenever I want (and to pretty much wherever I might want to go.)  And that's great.  But it would not be a catastrophe (for me) if that were to change.

      IMHO, the focus should be on what we genuinely need, not on what we want.  Scaremongering about the possibility that future generations might have a lower standard of living doesn't cut it.  More people, finite resources – something has to give, and that's not up to ‘us’.  What’s up to us is how it gives.





      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        Drowsy M Kram

        I agree with your thinking about the standard of living of ordinary people in NZ.    Staying with relatives recently it occurred to me that they had conditions above those of medieval kings and queens, and of course they could not fly overseas in mere hours.

        It would have been at a good level, if we had not abandoned the lower income, unskilled and semi-skilled to have really low wages, taken away their jobs in favour of importing cheap cars and exporting huge amounts of milk powder.

        NZ boosted the economy by using our housing in order to attract investment to the country which was ersatz export takings, so as to balance the insatiable desire for goods from overseas which were offered for all to buy and which created selling consumer goods as an ersatz industry. 

        So retailing revenue  replaced manufacturing small goods revenue with the money that employed people would have invested in buying a home until rents went so high because of the incomers being used to fund the education industry, and the house-selling industry.   

        Everything has been bled from the lower income of NZ citizens.    Don Brash wanted houses to be regarded as part of the investment industry and we were to be charged unrealised-profit tax so that we would have predatory government pecking at us in all areas of our lives. 

        The low income strata are the ones to worry about dropping standards of living because they are already being hit hard.   And their plight can't be ignored any more;  the mini-plagues are starting up to trouble us, after the warning signs and requests for help have been pushed aside for so long.   Bad water with E coli in Havelock North, and elsewhere is reminiscent of the cholera outbreaks around the world, and in 1800's London which our early colonials escaped from to come to the Eden of New Zealand.


  7. greywarshark 8

    The plastic keeps churning out and the work of the humble, noble cleaners around the edges of bodies of water are getting weary of being the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff!   


    What about an enterprising action group devoted to practical, engineered innovations, looking for disruptive systems, requesting an appointment with Graeme Hart.   He is a NZr with Australian heft who is a packaging mogul.   Perhaps he would help by starting new businesses, using new organic methods that will spread fast round the world.   He could get fast into the business and get a good foothold in this type of packaging.  It is a needed basic when there is transfer of any product.  

    It could be a goal to eliminate more than half of the troubling stuff coming through now.    Say starting in two years, aiming to achieve that lessening by half in four years, so six years which would be about as fast as is possible I would imagine.  

    And also having businesses sweeping the seas with nets and making useful stuff from the salt-washed detritus netted.    There are less fish to catch because of the plastic.    Let us use the fishing companies to catch plastic and rescue fish caught up in their nets, and also catch and remove the other floating nets that are so deadly.   Governments would pay fishing companies for their catches, and they would have certain boats devoted to that 'catch' and 'haul'.   


  8. greywarshark 9

    Radionz on aspects of building how-tos – housing


    Bill McKay – Tips when building

    From Nine To Noon, 11:50 am on 2 September 2019 Listen duration 9′ :02″

    Bill McKay talks to Lynn about how people can help themselves better when building new or doing alterations: we can be our own worst enemies. Before dreaming or designing, see what's possible: From Council: LIM or PIM: zoning, soil conditions, floodplain, plumbing and drainage. But don't rely on those, get whole Property File. Get designer to analyse. CT: Easements, covenants. Get lawyer or designer to analyse. Check CT boundaries against reality. Fences, hedges aren't always on boundaries. Use land surveyors.

  9. greywarshark 10

    Jill Abigail MP has entered the lists by protesting the Greens policy of accepting the desires of newly gendered people as paramount over those who stay as born and wish to retain their gendered rights and services.

    This article on Jill and her partner indicates the wide experience and education they have had.    They are dedicated to green practices and the environment and people whose opinion encompasses consideration of a wide understanding of society and the environment.   They are among the people with the traits and knowledge who should be regarded as mentors for younger people today.


    • solkta 10.1

      Why have you put this in "How to get there"?

      Why do you describe Jill Abigail as an "MP"?

      What is it that you are trying to say?

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        I am mistaken about Jill Abigail – I thought she was an MP but she is just a long-time Green Party member.   I should have read this article about the matter.


        I think this matter is important to NZ now and in the future if we are to move forward in a united and co-operative fashion.     Respect for each other means people claiming new rights do not just walk over old ones, and try to take away basic conditions that are cherished by others.

        I am also saying that Jill is a thoughtful person in so many ways that her opinion should count for a lot in consideration of the shape of our future lives.   This is both in society and the environment.

  10. greywarshark 11

    How can we be happy in our difficult times?  Breath work.   You are kidding!

    Ted talk – this guy might be onto something.

    Breathe to Heal | Max Strom

  11. greywarshark 12

    This old guy is really kindly and thinks he should give us some ideas that he has come to believe from experience and he thinks these things should be taken on to help with our future.

    The Art of Being a Couple | Theodore Zeldin  17 mins


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