Looking forward to seeing the results of Fonterra being taken to the Financial Markets Authority. Would have been better if Landcorp had done it, but at least someone has the heft to hold them to account.
Big companies can have big problems…whats so new about that.
Its a cooperative which HAS to take the milk …every day whether it wants it or not. It cant say during peak season, we are cutting volumes by 5% this month as the market for milk powder is weak or the cheese factory is past its production limit. No siree.
Ask sheep and beef farmers about the joys of not having a guaranteed buyer at the same price all year, and you have to pay to deliver to the works.
Why anyone would invest in these non-transacting Fonterra shares escapes me.
You're not a transacting shareholder, so have very limited rights and say over how the company is run, and you're giving your money to farmers, and Theo Spierings, to play with. They may pay you a dividend, in a good year, maybe. And your shares may hold their value, on a rising market with a string of good years.
Otherwise bend over and look like you're enjoying it.
This could become a telling commentary on New Zealand corporate and investor culture. Not holding my breath though.
Sterling work from Kirsty Johnston and Chris Knox behind the Herald paywall.
While the 'experts' have been rabidly and wrongly apportioning blame for the measles outbreak to the 'anti-vax' movement the real reasons for the declining immunisation rates have been largely ignored.
Those of us who have tried to point out that blaming so called anti vaxxers has simply made the situation worse have been dismissed…or worse.
"Vaccination rates are dropping across the country as fewer families immunise their babies.
Now, in the midst of a measles epidemic, a Herald analysis of immunisation data finds just 77 per cent of six-month-olds are now getting their vaccines on time.
While the debate has been centred around the impact of the anti-vaxx movement, the numbers paint a different picture.
Plummeting vaccination rates are being driven largely by the failure to immunise babies born into poor or Māori families – not by parents deliberately opting out. "
'While the 'experts' have been rabidly and wrongly apportioning blame for the measles outbreak to the 'anti-vax' movement.
But of course thats my opinion on your wording . Can you correct my mistaken view?
People decline medical treatment or interventions all the time, thats OK.
What is a plague is those people who actively campaign to get others not to immunize, those are generally called anti -vaxxers
As I found further down about the 1990s massive epidemics , low immunization rates – the aim of the anti vaxxers- make epidemics spread.
Stuff has a detailed series of articles issued today with some very good reporting,finding that it is the antivax movement ,and detailing the effects of the perpetrators .
The question arises that should NZ call a measles emergency? Invocation of the Civil defence act emergency powers would enable suppression of the transfer of false information during an epidemic.The censor would be required to review any information imparted etc.
It's a mix of both Rosemary and you know it. Trying to hide behind the well known fact that poverty stricken families are also failing to have their children immunised does you no favour. This has long been the case and until these families are better educated and better informed it will always be the case.
Anti-vaxxers have a great deal to answer for, and I think it is about time the government rolled out a campaign to counter the pseudo scientific crap being spread across the internet. It might look impressive to the gullible of mind but it is still crap.
Babies and toddlers in particular are going to die due to this latest epidemic, and those peddling the anti-vax myths have to take their fair portion of the blame.
You're going to have to provide some evidence to back that up Anne. It is simply too easy to blame 'anti-vaxxers' for declining immunisation rates.
And are you assuming that these 'anti-vaxxers' are part of some organised group whose major mission is to convince parents that all vaccines are bad?
It is just as likely that the individuals who make up the 1300 claims of significant vaccine injury accepted by ACC since 2006 have whanau and friends who have been influenced by these events.
Seeing a previously 'normal' child now in a wheelchair being peg fed and having to be suctioned to clear secretions because of the vaccine induced brain damage sends a powerful message. Having our health authorities deny/dismiss that these adverse events happen….or worse…not warn parents that a very high fever and resulting seizures after a vaccination is not normal…is negligent.
Trouble is… with suppressing discussion about vaccine adverse events and casting all who have concerns about possible side-effects from vaccines into a pseudo criminal group who are personally responsible for every single case of measles that ends up in hospital you're simply going to drive the discussion underground.
Surely it would be better to be able to have open and transparent discussions…instead of resorting to name calling?
Okay…so we have a bunch of trendy 'yummy mummy' midwives catering to the well heeled of Auckland. These are the folk with spare $$$ to be 'educated' about vaccines and immunisation.
How many of the un-vaccinated measles sufferers parents attended such a course?
Herne Bay, one of the wealthiest places in the country has seen rates for all milestone ages fall from 93 to 84 per cent in two years.
A few kilometres across the city to the east in Glen Innes – among the bottom quarter of most deprived suburbs in the country in 2013 – rates rose about three percentage points in the same time.
We've had a decade of social-media-spread fear-mongering about vaccinations, and this data is backing it up – falling vaccination rates doesn't map to areas of social deprivation.
The reasons for not vaccinating vary, and in the most vulnerable populations access remains the core issue, not anti-vax material. Afaik this has been the position of the MoH for a long time.
This doesn't mean anti-vax material isn't also an issue, but railing against social media use while we could instead be urging the govt to increase access seems stupid.
Then, perhaps, we can have the conversation as to whether or not it is acceptable to dismiss and diminish those who have suffered significant injuries due to vaccinations at a rate of over 100 per year.
Bearing in mind that the majority of cases of measles resolve with no lasting effects.
….which thwarts my bid to gain stats back to 1940 because,
" Measles immunisation was introduced in 1969 [18]and measles has been a notifiable disease since June 1996. " Wtf? Not a notifiable disease until 1996? For the supposed Death Plague?
Grrr….the frustrating thing is that it is difficult to assess what has not been accurately measured. One has to wonder why the data has not been collected or collated into one document like the UK stats. No wonder we're left with readily discredited anecdata.
It's not the "death plague". It is, however, an infectious disease that kills a larger proportion of the people who get it than the vaccine that prevents it.
But no, I meant literally email or call the ministry of health or similar.
For deaths, try trawling the NZ yearbooks – they stop reporting measles deaths separately apparently in the early 1980s, though before then measles deaths are reported. Went to listing major causes of death.
The greater good argument would be more sound if it did take into account people damaged by vaccines. At the moment there's a taboo on speaking their names. That's just shitty. Maybe the next greater good argument is that we can hide those people because it helps a better vaccine engagement. Meanwhile, we run a shitty neoliberal economy that sacrifices large numbers of people all the time, and the public debate around measles is hating on anti-vaxxers instead of expecting the MoH to do it's job better and make access to the MMR vaccine much easier.
Sometimes vaccine harm is emphasised while minimising e.g. measles harm. Not just deaths, but longer term conditions as well. And I doubt they'd get ACC coverage.
@McFlock re vaccine harm vs long term disability from measles.
1300plus accepted vaccine injury claims by ACC since 2006.
Rightfully treated as a Treatment Injury by ACC and a fluctuating (depending on the flag over the Beehive) rate of acceptance.
(If there as a way of posting the OIA reply here I would.)
If one could prove there were errors or omissions by medical personnel in treating a case of measles that led to a death or impairment then I guess give an ACC claim a shot. Nothing ventured.
Let's not start a side discussion on the inequities between ACC and MOH for supports for long term impairments.
1: all vaccines vs measles is not a reasonable comparison of harm – what's the ACC rate for the MMR vaccine specifically?
2: harm from vaccine preventable diseases in a vaccinated population will be significantly smaller than the harm from those diseases in an unvaccinated population. To judge the value of vaccines, it would be more logical to compare vaccine harm against disease harm in an unvaccinated population, no?
Vaccine vs unvaxxed population seems to be at least reasonably doable, as opposed to guessing the disease prevalence at some sort of equilibrium level of vaccination where the number of opt-outers or delayers is balanced by the selfish who only vaccinate when there is a threat level they can understand, incorporating any other shortcomings in health literacy or systemic alienation that might be a barrier to primary healthcare.
I suspect such math would be more in line with economics than the real world, and with similar reliability.
Rosemary, you or someone else could try this link and then have a chat to Stats NZ to ask for the measles stats using the offer of help in the pop-up on the lower right hand side of the page Sorry, I am not available to do this as while I sometimes still read TS, I am rarely interested in commenting here these days.
Thanks vw. I just might send them an email…or…make an OIA to the Misery of Health. It disturbs me greatly that this guy Rainger/Ranger is saying..
" The fatality rate for measles was one in 1000, Rainger said, and as the numbers rose the likelihood of a fatality did too. "
…when, unlike the data from the UK showing the number of deaths per 1000 cases to be many times lower, there is no readily available pool of NZ stats to support such a claim.
I've suggested this previously, but IMHO when the annual death rate from measles cases is low (maybe not comparatively low, but low in an absolute sense – 1 in 1000 is a low rate in absolute terms), off a historically low annual number of cases (due to vaccination programmes), then that annual death rate it will bounce around a bit.
For the last 28 years, NZ's annual death rate from measles has been VERY low (zero; not bouncing around at all), so for the last 28 years NZ's annual death rate from measles has been the same or lower than that in the UK, because for some of those years the UK has also had no deaths from measles, while in other years it has had a few deaths, including in 1999 when the UK's rate of death from cases of measles (3 deaths from ~2400 cases) was higher than NZ's annual death rate during our biggest 'recent' measles epidemic (in 1991), and much higher than in NZ during every year since 1991.
To begin to understand why there was roughly 1 death for every 1000 cases of measles in NZ in 1991, the first port of call might be health workers/administrators/managers in the thick of it – there must quite a few still around. There was probably a health review commissioned, possibly some academic analysis too. But the reasons could include, or even be largely due to, chance, just as it was probably chance that the UK had a higher annual death rate from measles in 1999 than NZ has had for a very long time.
There may be some risk to patient safety, in terms of health sector/worker preparedness/familiarity in treating serious (life-threatening) cases of measles associated with this year's outbreak, given that there hasn't been a major outbreak for 28 years. But, hopefully, some will remember.
After all, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it "
"If this outbreak is not stamped out by March next year NZ will lose its hard-earned measles elimination status."
Tbh, I wouldn't try to attach too much significance to year-to-year differences in annual rates of death from measles in or between developed countries. There will have been an enormous amount of medical/academic research on this by 1000s of health professionals and researchers, and I doubt that they have missed something I'm likely to spot, and/or are trying to cover up some glaring statistical anomaly.
This is an informative brief presentation by a medical doctor who thinks the death rate from measles is 3-4 per thousand, which seems very high (hence ‘don’t attach too much significance’, etc.) There's also a nice (Australian) comparison of the risks associated with contracting measles and the risks associated with being vaccinated for measles – very helpful.
Thanks Rosemary. I was hoping the MSM would address this. Pity it's behind a paywall. This has long been the issue, that the lowering numbers of vaccination in NZ are in part due to poor access to healthcare. The people who choose intentionally to not vaccinate are still afaik a small % of the population. I'd like to see some research done on that.
Thanks weka. This is the sole reason I coughed up the $$$ to read work like this from a journalist I respect.
I have linked on more than one occasion here on TS to the same databases the writers use. The data tells a different story to the one promulgated by the angry ranty DHBs who were embarrassed by their falling vaccination rates.
There are two major issues that I see here…the most significant is deprivation and difficulty accessing reliable health care in some communities. Only true transformational governance will ease this. It might alsoaddress that true indicator of our third world health status….rheumatic ever and the two hundred deaths per year from preventable heart damage.
The other issue is the fact that some New Zealand children have been injured by vaccines. Not many, but a significant enough number to be relevant to any discussion about vaccine efficacy and safety. We are not allowed to discuss these incidents without a barrage of abuse and accusations of being anti- vax and hence pro-plague.
I suggest that folk go out of doors into their communities and speak with the parents of these vaccine damaged children.
I see it similarly. Also, the people choosing not to access from informed consent (so not necessarily the anti-vaxers, although overlaps), often have a good enough standard of living so that if their child gets the measles or whooping cough they're more able to provide optimal care for that child (thus decreasing the chances of complications). I'd love to see some research on that too, but it's another of the taboo subjects.
"speak with the parents of these vaccine damaged children."
Oh dear. I cant see how campaigning against vaccination is allowed on this site. Personal choice is fine as for all medical interventions
The facts are
"The death rate for measles is about one-to-three people in every thousand. An estimated 10 per cent of cases require hospital treatment, and up to 30 per cent of people will develop complications, including pneumonia, diarrhoea and ear infections."
Thats only one of the diseases we vaccinate for as measles is covered by MMR Measles , Mumps,
Rubella is particularly nasty for unborn children leading to severe abnormalities
No surprise here: "The number of rubella cases has fallen dramatically since the vaccine became available in 1969. "
[perhaps you need some time out to reread the Policy. You were warned by me as a mod, and Rosemary asked you why you were calling her an anti-vaxxer, and you’ve ignored both of those and just carried on with misrepresenting her position. I don’t want to have to spend moderator time today reading your comments to see if you’re still passive-aggressive flaming. 2 day ban – weka]
I cant see how campaigning against vaccination is allowed on this site.
Are you accusing me of campaigning against vaccinations because I suggest folk go and speak with the families of those 1300 plus people who have been vaccine injured in the past 13 years in NZ?
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why a supposedly first world country like NZ anticipates such a high death rate from what used to be a nasty but usually survivable childhood illness.
Perhaps we should also talk about our shameful rates of other third world diseases.
Maybe death rates are sometimes higher during measles epidemics because public health services are stretched thinner. That may have contributed to the comparatively high rate of death (1 death in 1000 cases) during NZ's 1991 measles epidemic (7000 cases).
In NZ, no deaths have been attributed to measles since 1991, so a big shout out to GPs and other health workers (and of course to parents who took advantage of free vaccinations for their children) for that excellent result.
If the current measles outbreak is restricted to one or two thousand NZers then maybe the health service will be able to prevent any measles-related deaths, but I'm guessing that health spokespersons don't want to appear too confident about that, for fear of vaccination rates falling still further.
In NZ, no deaths have been attributed to measles since 1991, so a big shout out to GPs and other health workers (and of course to parents who took advantage of free vaccinations for their children) for that excellent result.
For the life of me I cannot find similar data for NZ…ie…number of cases of measles and number of deaths from measles per year.
A pity, or we could have made a true comparison.
Of course the parents of fully vaccinated children cannot claim credit for there having been no deaths due to measles because their children, being vaccinated, will not have got measles. The UK data refers to deaths from actual measles.
I still don't understand why here in NZ there were a reported 7 deaths from around 7000 notified cases of measles while in the UK in the same year (1991) there was 1 death from 9680 notified cases.
There is something seriously wrong with our health system.
I still don't understand why here in NZ there were a reported 7 deaths from around 7000 notified cases of measles while in the UK in the same year (1991) there was 1 death from 9680 notified cases.
Which statistical test to go by for these numbers is an esoteric discussion of which I know nothing. The point is that the lower confidence bound for the 7/7000 death rate for any given test is slightly lower than the upper bound for the 1/9680 rate (bear in mind the comparison numbers are in different magnitudes).
Does this mean there isn't some systemic difference? No. Just that we can't say for sure that either system is better than another, based on the samples we have to work with.
The rate ratios indicate there might me some difference using Byars, but it's not a binary "no difference/significant difference" situation. The intervals are pretty wide, and the gap is pretty narrow.
I freely admit to a superficial understanding of statistics, and the deep stuff you're directing me towards has given me a headache. I will consult my stats and data advisor later.
I'm not a stats engineer (more a data tradie lol) but the gist is that we're looking at whether the difference is actually a difference in the ability of each system, or is it just broadly what we'd expect from identical systems with reasonable variation in outcomes. E.g. if the car accident rate lowered from year to year, is this just random noise in the system or have things actually improved?
So the statisticians created probability tests for different circumstances. Some are p-values, personally I prefer CIs. p-values hurt my brain, and people love to view their significance as binary "care or do not care about result", whereas things are more subtle than that.
So using Byars, our 7/7000 equals a rate of 1 per 1000 with a lower bound of0.4/1000 and upper of 2/1000.
1/9680 gives a rate of 0.1/1000, with a CI range of 0.001/1000 to 0.57/1000. Obviously one rate is ten times the other as observed, but because the CIs overlap we can't be reasonably sure that the results won't be swapped the next time each health service faces an outbreak.
Now, they only just overlap so there might be something there if we look more closely with larger samples, but at this stage it's not a given either way.
A chart example of NZ child assault deaths is here. The numbers bounce about, the rates bounce about, but because the confidence intervals are so wide there probably isn't any real difference between them all. Even the lowest rate might just be an outlier, because we have so many datapoints so that might just be the way 95% CI (or 1:20 odds) rolled that time.
edit:
BTW, my math tends to fold in on itself and deliver garbage, so if anyone wants to check it please do. If I’m in a hurry or multitasking, I still find my code screws up because the alligator teeth point the wrong direction when looking for high-low pass filters lol
you know my eyes started glazing over when you said p values right?
I'm assuming (loosely) that it's probably both the maths and there are factors affecting actual rates (NZ being different from the UK). Having the long term yearly rates would be useful.
If it's any consolation, I spent 20 minutes trying to make sure my conversion of rates per ten thousand to rates per thousand went the right direction 🙂
I got Matt to check my maths recently for a post where I was working with millions and tens of thousands. I was only out by a factor of 10. That would still have been fairly embarrassing, lol.
When we were trying to have an inclusive nation and counting people as citizens not human resources, there were very strong moves against TB, and there were health buses that would travel to areas where you could go for vaccination against polio. These two diseases are not totally beaten but we need now the same sort of initiative to get measles down and under control again. Capice?
It is wrong for government and the Dept of Health to do the contract thing and lay the problem at overworked DHBs feet. The policies of the government have resulted in numbers of incoming people bringing more disease and health problems with them. Since the welfare budget was severely cut in 1991 it has never been adequate for families wellbeing, and without that income, and with fewer state houses for lower-income people we have a rolling, rising problem.
The PM himself said he was planning on having a low-wage economy, it takes a boofhead not to see that we are not extending services to people whose needs have been neglected. And lack of quality welfare leads to lack of quality in a country's achievements and standards.
thats not correct. Waiheke, Herne bay and the coromandel are leading the trend down, and they aren’t poverty stricken.
the science is settled on immunisation. Defending the “right to choose” to vaccinate is akin to defending the right opt out of Climate change prevention measures because of the chance of personal adverse outcomes. Humanity is at stake hear. Vaccine damage occurs at an infinitesimal rate compared to the occurrence of infectious diseases during an outbreak.
Herd immunity needs around 90% vaccinated rate (according to science). No reason why the 5% or so of the population that choose to not vaccinate shouldn't be allowed to.
Writing off the people who have been damaged doesn’t help convince anti-vaxxers btw, it makes things worse.
so when vaccinations are at 88% of the population, that 88% should be imperilled because of the poor choices of, at that point, a critical 5%?
Good to know that 5% of the population should be allowed to make choices that can adversely affect the other 95%, and shouldn’t be made to feel bad about it either
Climaction. Defending the “right to choose” to vaccinate is akin to defending the right opt out of Climate change prevention measures because of the chance of personal adverse outcomes.
Weird conflation…but nevermind…it is to be expected from certain groups who have an almost religious zeal when presenting their particular views.
So, and correct me if I'm wrong, those individuals who choose not to vaccinate because of well founded concerns over adverse effects are to blame for 'imperilling' the 88% who are vaccinated.
Excuse me…but if the vaccine is effective (as well as safe) how can the unvaccinated possibly imperil the fully vaccinated?
And how dare you dismiss the experiences of those who have been significantly adversely affected by a vaccine.
How dare I not subscribe to your views that your hurt is of greater meaning than the families of those poor defenceless children suffering from preventable disease they are too young to be immunised against? Interesting value pyramid you live within.
Vaccines are effective and safe. How many of the “vaccine damaged” 1300 since 2006 were from the measles vaccine? A critical part of your stat missing there when denying that not vaccinating kids by choice has no bearing on a measle outbreak
Vaccines are effective and safe. How many of the “vaccine damaged” 1300 since 2006 were from the measles vaccine?
Bear with me a minute. This is very difficult to ascertain as this report…
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/topic_sheets/adverse-event-summary.pdf …is at odds with the ACC data I obtained through an OIA. The above document states that between 2005 and 2009 that " Of the 4,757 reports, 174 (3.6%) meet the criteria of a serious report." Peculiar as ACC data shows 299 accepted claims for vaccine injury during the same period.
There is a wee chart in the Adverse Events Summary that does indicate which particular vaccine is being 'blamed' for the adverse event. MMR accounts for 25 of the 174 of the total 'serious' reports.
The discrepancy in numbers between the two might be an administrative lag between date of vaccination, onset of adverse event, reporting date, and the date that ACC made its decision.
Additionally, there might be some differences in criteria – adverse events are any event within X period of the vaccination, while ACC might have different causal threshold.
As for 25 serious reports, "serious" includes "hospitalisations", so I suggest the number of MMR-correlated incidents in that five year period has been thoroughly outstripped by hospitalisations in the current outbreak. Probably several times over by now.
Australia has 99 % vacination rate. No vacination,no playgroup,kindy or school.How simple is THAT.This is a major failure of Government public health policy.
Spot on Rosemary, the consequences of regional differences in vaccination rates in NZ, due to socioeconomic, cultural and other factors, seem to mirror trends seen in Europe.
Measles in Europe: record number of both sick and immunized (lessons for NZ?)
“This means that gaps at local level still offer an open door to the virus,” says Dr Zsuzsanna Jakab. “We cannot achieve healthier populations globally, as promised in WHO’s vision for the coming five years, if we do not work locally.”
More children in the WHO European Region are being vaccinated against measles than ever before; but progress has been uneven between and within countries, leaving increasing clusters of susceptible individuals unprotected, and resulting in a record number of people affected by the virus in 2018. In light of measles data for the year 2018 released today, WHO urges European countries to target their interventions to those places and groups where immunization gaps persist.
Measles killed 72 children and adults in the European Region in 2018. According to monthly country reports for January to December 2018 (received as of 01 February 2019), 82 596 people in 47 of 53 countries contracted measles. In countries reporting hospitalization data, nearly 2/3 (61%) of measles cases were hospitalized. The total number of people infected with the virus in 2018 was the highest this decade: 3 times the total reported in 2017 and 15 times the record low number of people affected in 2016.
The surge in measles cases in 2018 followed a year in which the European Region achieved its highest ever estimated coverage for the second dose of measles vaccination (90% in 2017). More children in the Region received the full two-dose series on time, according to their countries’ immunization schedules, in 2017 than in any year since WHO started collecting data on the second dose in 2000. Coverage with the first dose of the vaccine also increased slightly to 95%, the highest level since 2013. However, progress in the Region, based on achievements at the national level, can mask gaps at subnational levels, which are often not recognized until outbreaks occur.
“The picture for 2018 makes it clear that the current pace of progress in raising immunization rates will be insufficient to stop measles circulation. While data indicate exceptionally high immunization coverage at regional level, they also reflect a record number affected and killed by the disease. This means that gaps at local level still offer an open door to the virus,” says Dr Zsuzsanna Jakab. “We cannot achieve healthier populations globally, as promised in WHO’s vision for the coming five years, if we do not work locally. We must do more and do it better to protect each and every person from diseases that can be easily avoided.”
1990s epidemics were greater , many thousands caught the disease. What happened then.. really dont think there was some sort of national emergency proclaimed
"
In 1991, the Soviet Union collapsed, Jim Bolger was prime minister, and New Zealand was sick with measles.
Vaccination coverage was low and the highly infectious disease was ripping through the population. Estimates vary, but as many as 40,000 to 60,000 people likely got sick, according to a previous version of the immunisation handbook, put out by the Ministry of Health.
Seven people died, including four unimmunised children. Six years later, in 1997, a second, smaller epidemic struck. There were 2169 cases around the country. About 950 people were hospitalised across both events, according to the 2011 handbook.
"People have forgotten what used to happen when we didn't have such high vaccination rates," said Dr Jill Sherwood, a public health medicine specialist at ESR, a Crown Research Institute."
Because there's absolutely nothing else threatening the wellbeing of the country right now, the most tech-literate Government ever!1 has decided that it's a good time to do some pearl-clutching about adult content on the Internet.
There's a measles epidemic, men and boys are killing themselves in greater numbers than ever before, people are sleeping in cars, carbon emissions are increasing, water quality is declining, so of course it's time for a bit of "won't someone think of the children" dead-cat distraction.
Here are some things that have my spidey sense tingling:
" Five draft laws have been proposed to the Minister by Family First "
–oh neat, Family First. Just who I need advice on matters of sexuality and freedom of expression.
" Directing the state department of education to take a direct role in educating parents of enrolled students on the harms of pornographic material. "
–telling parents what to think doesn't sound outside the department's purview AT ALL.
"Options being looked at include: R18 access to porn websites: Residents will have to provide age ID to have access "
–hands up who trusts the NZ government to secure an enormous digital collection of identity documentation?
Valid point about family first lobbying ministries, but the real question should be, with the large number of children regularly accessing hardcore pornagraphy, especially that which is degrading and exploitative of women, and the persistence of rape culture, misogyny and brutal disrespect to them in our society, can we afford not to impose restrictions on who gets to view it?
Those too are valid points. But in the real world we also have to acknowledge two things:
1. The NZ Government is technically illiterate. It wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to block some people's access to parts of the Internet without screwing other parts of the Internet up for everyone.
2. One person's perversion is another person's expression of identity. If the Government blocks (for example) trans or non-binary porn for people who are over the legal age of consent, it will be a disaster.
Perhaps you could characterise both points as parts of the same problem – it’s crazy to trust the imposition of morality on the Internet to wealthy, able-bodied, old, white, straight, cisgender technophobes.
Adult people can perve their hearts out for all I care, but the issue is children having free access and the damage it does not only to the viewer, but those who form relationships or encounter them in the present and future.
In the old days you found a mag on the common or under your dads bed, and that was your exposure to porn, but this digital media age has much worse content, viewed by many many more people.
I'm not a prude, nor do I have the solution, though I think for the safety and mental well being of our younglings, something should be done, whatever it is.
"My country unleashed a horrific war that would cost more than 50 million people — among them millions of Polish citizens — their lives. This war was a German crime," the president said in a speech before Polish President Andrzej Duda, US Vice President Mike Pence, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe, as well as representatives of 30 other countries.
The Russians' fond belief that they were hapless, peace-loving victims of WW2 is something Putin's trying to reinforce, so chances of an admission of guilt = 0.
These days, as far as Russia's concerned the war started on 22 June 1941. Quibbling about who did what before that is for bigoted, ant-Slavic westerners who want to undermine the heroic Soviet achievement because they're embarrassed at their own countries' dismal failure to contain the Nazi threat. It's going down a treat inside Russia – not so much in Poland, Finland, the Baltic Republics or Romania, mind…
The response to the Bridges National Cancer "Plan" recently seemed to be heavily commented on in MSM.
An actual Cancer Plan published yesterday seemed to have a muted response, except for the expected rapid denigrating response from National. "Too little. Too late." Strange for a National Party after 9 long years?
Unless the government already had such a 'cancer plan' in the pipeline before National presented theirs, you have to wonder why they let National and the MSM set the agenda in the first place. Who said that that was the problem de jour, that everyone has to address this week? It's important, to be sure, but why not focus on your own legislative agenda?
After the last three years, the work of a just and righteous God cannot be considered credible evidence of His goodness unless He picks all of Mar-a-lago up by the roots, sails it across half of Florida and heaves it on top of Doral and its every last bedbug. https://t.co/5UblkKzF1c
Fucknuts, we are invoking an omnipotent divinity capable of heaving one Trump shithole atop another, destroying the realty and leaving no other soul’s hair mussed. And hey, roaming twitter with a flatlining sense of humor and some manufactured outrage just sucks unwashed ass. https://t.co/BVA12JwYEv
Aotearoa is no Australia just because they like using the big stick userly it is used on the people who are down and out. Aotearoa can come up with a smart solution to the measles problem in Aotearoa.
The old health system was the best in the Papatuanuku in value for money and services. My experience with the health system is not good at all I seen the way that they discriminated against me and my mokopuna. I don't trust anyone in that system
Ma Te wa the Kiwi build is a good move by the Coalition government to fix the last lots Houseing short they were serving themselves rubbing there hands together reaping the capital gains cause by shonkys short.
Dorain is a powerful force from Tawhirimate and Papatuanuku we need to heed our scientists warning and drop carbon out of our lives as fast as possible.
Its great that our Prime Minister is taking to Ngāti Porou about our Awa Tangaroa and the state of the Fisheries on the East Coast to resolve the issues that were agreed appon in the 1980s
Ka pai Chris these loan sharks cost Maori and Pacific tangata heaps of money with their huge interest charged on their loans to people who can least afford to pay it back Eco Maori dislike these people .
Tangata whenua do value our ENVIRONMENT more than western society's do we know that we are part of all things in our environment be it whenua Tangaroa or Tawhirimate.
The Tangata Whenua O Australia are being discriminated against by the Australian Crown its a very sad situation that they are in WTF it that common Tangata whenua Australia its no who's in the hinaki its who hasn't been to jail what a waste of great talenteEd tangata. Shane Phillips Ka pai with your mahi
Ngāti Manawheno it's great to see our tamariki preforming it's better for Eco Maori to see all our Wahine stepping up to the hard mahi in Aotearoa.
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 17, 2021 through Sat, Jan 23, 2021Editor's Choice12 new books explore fresh approaches to act on climate changeAuthors explore scientific, economic, and political avenues for climate action ...
This discussion is from a Twitter thread by Martin Kulldorff on 20 December 2020. He is a Professor at Harvard Medical School specialising in disease surveillance methods, infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety. His Twitter handle is @MartinKulldorff #1 Public health is about all health outcomes, not just a single ...
The Treasury forecasts suggest the economy is doing better than expected after the Covid Shock. John Kenneth Galbraith was wont to say that economic forecasting was designed to make astrology look good. Unfair, but it raises the question of the purpose of economic forecasts. Certainly the public may treat them ...
Q: Will the COVID-19 vaccines prevent the transmission of the coronavirus and bring about community immunity (aka herd immunity)? A: Jury not in yet but vaccines do not have to be perfect to thwart the spread of infection. While vaccines induce protection against illness, they do not always stop actual ...
Joe Biden seems to be everything that Donald Trump was not – decent, straightforward, considerate of others, mindful of his responsibilities – but none of that means that he has an easy path ahead of him. The pandemic still rages, American standing in the world is grievously low, and the ...
Keana VirmaniFrom healthcare robots to data privacy, to sea level rise and Antarctica under the ice: in the four years since its establishment, the Aotearoa New Zealand Science Journalism Fund has supported over 30 projects.Rebecca Priestley, receiving the PM Science Communication Prize (Photo by Mark Tantrum) Associate Professor ...
Nothing more from me today - I'm off to Wellington, to participate in the city's annual roleplaying convention (which has also eaten my time for the whole week, limiting blogging despite there being interesting things happening). Normal bloggage will resume Tuesday. ...
The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weaponscame into force today, making the development, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons illegal in international law. Every nuclear-armed state is now a criminal regime. The corporations and scientists who design, build and maintain their illegal weapons are now ...
"Come The Revolution!" The key objective of Bernard Hickey’s revolutionary solution to the housing crisis is a 50 percent reduction in the price of the average family home. This will be achieved by the introduction of Capital Gains, Land, and Wealth taxes, and by the opening up of currently RMA-protected ...
by Daphna Whitmore Twitter and Facebook shutting down Trump’s accounts after his supporters stormed Capitol Hill is old news now but the debates continue over whether the actions against Trump are a good thing or not. Those in favour of banning Trump say Twitter and Facebook are private companies and ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Democrats now control the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives for the first time in a decade, albeit with razor thin Congressional majorities. The last time, in the 111th Congress (2009-2011), House Democrats passed a carbon cap and trade bill, but it died ...
Session thirty-three was highly abbreviated, via having to move house in a short space of time. Oh well. The party decided to ignore the tree-monster and continue the attack on the Giant Troll. Tarsin – flying on a giant summoned bat – dumped some high-grade oil over the ...
Last night I stayed up till 3am just to see then-President Donald Trump leave the White House, get on a plane, and fly off to Florida, hopefully never to return. And when I woke up this morning, America was different. Not perfect, because it never was. Probably not even good, ...
Watching today’s inauguration of Joe Biden as the United States’ 46th president, there’s not a lot in common with the inauguration of Donald Trump just four destructive years ago. Where Trump warned of carnage, Biden dared to hope for unity and decency. But the one place they converge is that ...
Dan FalkBritons who switched on their TVs to “Good Morning Britain” on the morning of Sept. 15, 2020, were greeted by news not from our own troubled world, but from neighboring Venus. Piers Morgan, one of the hosts, was talking about a major science story that had surfaced the ...
Sara LutermanGrowing up autistic in a non-autistic world can be very isolating. We are often strange and out of sync with peers, despite our best efforts. Autistic adults have, until very recently, been largely absent from media and the public sphere. Finding role models is difficult. Finding useful advice ...
Doug JohnsonThe alien-like blooms and putrid stench of Amorphophallus titanum, better known as the corpse flower, draw big crowds and media coverage to botanical gardens each year. In 2015, for instance, around 75,000 people visited the Chicago Botanic Garden to see one of their corpse flowers bloom. More than ...
Getting to Browser Tab Zero so I can reboot the computer is awfully hard when the one open tab is a Table of Contents for the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, and every issue has more stuff I want to read. A few highlights: Gugler et al demonstrating ...
Timothy Ford, University of Massachusetts Lowell and Charles M. Schweik, University of Massachusetts AmherstTo mitigate health inequities and promote social justice, coronavirus vaccines need to get to underserved populations and hard-to-reach communities. There are few places in the U.S. that are unreachable by road, but other factors – many ...
Israel chose to pay a bit over the odds for the Pfizer vaccine to get earlier access. Here’s The Times of Israel from 16 November. American government will be charged $39 for each two-shot dose, and the European bloc even less, but Jerusalem said to agree to pay $56. Israel ...
Orla is a gender critical Marxist in Ireland. She gave a presentation on 15 January 2021 on the connection between postmodern/transgender identity politics and the current attacks on democratic and free speech rights. Orla has been active previously in the Irish Socialist Workers Party and the People Before Profit electoral ...
. . America: The Empire Strikes Back (at itself) Further to my comments in the first part of 2020: The History That Was, the following should be considered regarding the current state of the US. They most likely will be by future historians pondering the critical decades of ...
Nathaniel ScharpingIn March, as the Covid-19 pandemic began to shut down major cities in the U.S., researchers were thinking about blood. In particular, they were worried about the U.S. blood supply — the millions of donations every year that help keep hospital patients alive when they need a transfusion. ...
Sarah L Caddy, University of CambridgeVaccines are a marvel of medicine. Few interventions can claim to have saved as many lives. But it may surprise you to know that not all vaccines provide the same level of protection. Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you ...
Back in 2016, the Portuguese government announced plans to stop burning coal by 2030. But progress has come much quicker, and they're now scheduled to close their last coal plant by the end of this year: The Sines coal plant in Portugal went offline at midnight yesterday evening (14 ...
The Sincerest Form Of Flattery: As anybody with the intestinal fortitude to brave the commentary threads of local news-sites, large and small, will attest, the number of Trump-supporting New Zealanders is really quite astounding. IT’S SO DIFFICULT to resist the temptation to be smug. From the distant perspective of New Zealand, ...
RNZ reports on continued arbitrariness on decisions at the border. British comedian Russell Howard is about to tour New Zealand and other acts allowed in through managed isolation this summer include drag queen RuPaul and musicians at Northern Bass in Mangawhai and the Bay Dreams festival. The vice-president of the ...
As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop focusing on our managed isolation and quarantine system and instead protect the elderly so that they can ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 through Sat, Jan 16, 2021Editor's ChoiceNASA says 2020 tied for hottest year on record — here’s what you can do to helpPhoto by Michael Held on Unsplash ...
Health authorities in Norway are reporting some concerns about deaths in frail elderly after receiving their COVID-19 vaccine. Is this causally related to the vaccine? Probably not but here are the things to consider. According to the news there have been 23 deaths in Norway shortly after vaccine administration and ...
Happy New Year! No, experts are not concerned that “…one of New Zealand’s COIVD-1( vaccines will fail to protect the country” Here is why. But first I wish to issue an expletive about this journalism (First in Australia and then in NZ). It exhibits utter failure to actually truly consult ...
All nations have shadows; some acknowledge them. For others they shape their image in uncomfortable ways.The staunch Labour supporter was in despair at what her Rogernomics Government was doing. But she finished ‘at least, we got rid of Muldoon’, a response which tells us that then, and today, one’s views ...
Grigori GuitchountsIn November, Springer Nature, one of the world’s largest publishers of scientific journals, made an attention-grabbing announcement: More than 30 of its most prestigious journals, including the flagship Nature, will now allow authors to pay a fee of US$11,390 to make their papers freely available for anyone to read ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Gary Yohe, Henry Jacoby, Richard Richels, and Benjamin Santer Imagine a major climate change law passing the U.S. Congress unanimously? Don’t bother. It turns out that you don’t need to imagine it. Get this: The Global Change Research Act of 1990 was passed ...
“They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”WHO CAN FORGET the penultimate scene of the 1956 movie classic, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? The wild-eyed doctor, stumbling down the highway, trying desperately to warn his fellow citizens: “They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”Ostensibly science-fiction, the movie ...
TheOneRing.Net has got its paws on the official synopsis of the upcoming Amazon Tolkien TV series. It’s a development that brings to mind the line about Sauron deliberately releasing Gollum from the dungeons of Barad-dûr. Amazon knew exactly what they were doing here, in terms of drumming up publicity: ...
Since Dwight Eisenhower’s inauguration in 1953, US presidents have joined an informal club intended to provide support - and occasionally rivalry - between those few who have been ‘leaders of the free world’. Donald Trump, elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ and a constant mocker of his predecessors, ...
For over a decade commentators have noted the rise of a new brand of explicitly ideological politics throughout the world. By this they usually refer to the re-emergence of national populism and avowedly illiberal approaches to governance throughout the “advanced” democratic community, but they also extend the thought to the ...
The US House of Representatives has just impeached Donald Trump, giving him the dubious honour of being the only US President to be impeached twice. Ten Republicans voted for impeachement, making it the most bipartisan impeachment ever. The question now is whether the Senate will rise to the occasion, and ...
Kieren Mitchell; Alice Mouton, Université de Liège; Angela Perri, Durham University, and Laurent Frantz, Ludwig Maximilian University of MunichThanks to the hit television series Game of Thrones, the dire wolf has gained a near-mythical status. But it was a real animal that roamed the Americas for at least 250,000 ...
Tide of tidal data rises Having cast our own fate to include rising sea level, there's a degree of urgency in learning the history of mean sea level in any given spot, beyond idle curiosity. Sea level rise (SLR) isn't equal from one place to another and even at a particular ...
Well, some of those chickens sure came home bigly, didn’t they… and proceeded to shit all over the nice carpet in the Capitol. What we were seeing here are societal forces that have long had difficulty trying to reconcile people to the “idea” of America and the reality of ...
In the wake of Donald Trump's incitement of an assault on the US capitol, Twitter finally enforced its terms of service and suspended his account. They've since followed that up with action against prominent QAnon accounts and Trumpers, including in New Zealand. I'm not unhappy with this: Trump regularly violated ...
Peter S. Ross, University of British ColumbiaThe Arctic has long proven to be a barometer of the health of our planet. This remote part of the world faces unprecedented environmental assaults, as climate change and industrial chemicals threaten a way of life for Inuit and other Indigenous and northern ...
Susan St John makes the case for taxing a deemed rate of return on excessive real estate holdings (after a family home exemption), to redirect scarce housing resources to where they are needed most. Read the full article here ...
I’m less than convinced by arguments that platforms like Twitter should be subject to common carrier regulation preventing them from being able to decide who to keep on as clients of their free services, and who they would not like to serve. It’s much easier to create competition for the ...
The hypocritical actions of political leaders throughout the global Covid pandemic have damaged public faith in institutions and governance. Liam Hehir chronicles the way in which contemporary politicians have let down the public, and explains how real leadership means walking the talk. During the Blitz, when German bombs were ...
Over the years, we've published many rebuttals, blog posts and graphics which came about due to direct interactions with the scientists actually carrying out the underlying research or being knowledgable about a topic in general. We'll highlight some of these interactions in this blog post. We'll start with two memorable ...
Yesterday we had the unseemly sight of a landleech threatening to keep his houses empty in response to better tenancy laws. Meanwhile in Catalonia they have a solution for that: nationalisation: Barcelona is deploying a new weapon in its quest to increase the city’s available rental housing: the power ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters, PhD The 2020 global wildfire season brought extreme fire activity to the western U.S., Australia, the Arctic, and Brazil, making it the fifth most expensive year for wildfire losses on record. The year began with an unprecedented fire event ...
NOTE: This is an excerpt from a digital story – read the full story here.Tess TuxfordKo te Kauri Ko Au, Ko te Au ko Kauri I am the kauri, the kauri is me Te Roroa proverb In Waipoua Forest, at the top of the North Island, New ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Coming attraction: IPCC's upcoming major climate assessmentLook for more emphasis on 'solutions,' efforts by cities, climate equity ... and outlook for emissions cuts in ...
Ringing A Clear Historical Bell: The extraordinary images captured in and around the US Capitol Building on 6 January 2021 mirror some of the worst images of America's past.THERE IS A SCENE in the 1982 movie Missing which has remained with me for nearly 40 years. Directed by the Greek-French ...
To impact or not to impeach? I understand why some of those who are justifiably aghast at Trump’s behaviour over recent days might still counsel against impeaching him for a second time. To impeach him, they argue, would run the risk of making him a martyr in the eyes of ...
The Capitol Building, Washington DC, Wednesday, 6 January 2021. Oh come, my little one, come.The day is almost done.Be at my side, behold the sightOf evening on the land.The life, my love, is hardAnd heavy is my heart.How should I live if you should leaveAnd we should be apart?Come, let me ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 3, 2021 through Sat, Jan 9, 2021Editor's ChoiceAfter the Insurrection: Accountability, Reform, and the Science of Democracy The poisonous lies and enablers of sedition--including Senator Hawley, pictured ...
This article, guest authored by Prof. Angela Gallego-Sala & Dr. Julie Loisel, was originally published on the Carbon Brief website on Dec 21, 2020. It is reposted below in its entirety. Click here to access the original article and comments. Peatlands Peatlands are ecosystems unlike any other. Perpetually saturated, their ...
The assault on the US Capitol and constitutional crisis that it has caused was telegraphed, predictable and yet unexpected and confusing. There are several subplots involved: whether the occupation of the Michigan State House in May was a trial run for the attacks on Congress; whether people involved in the ...
On Christmas Eve, child number 1 spotted a crack in a window. It’s a double-glazed window, and inspection showed that the small, horizontal crack was in the outermost pane. It was perpendicular to the frame, about three-quarters of the way up one side. The origins are a mystery. It MIGHT ...
A growing public housing waiting list and continued increase of house prices must be urgently addressed by Government, Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson said today. ...
[Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today. “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. “Two new projects ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
A recent returnee has tested positive for Covid-19 after testing negative twice during her 14 days in managed isolation, Marc Daalder reports There is little information available about a new community case of Covid-19 identified by testing today - other than she is in Whangarei and used the Covid app ...
by Andi Cockroft Chairman Council of Outdoor Recreation Associations of NZ An Otago Daily Times report (23 January) that nearly two-thirds of Dunedin residents think public consultation is lacking at the Dunedin City Council, according to the latest ...
“If today’s probable case of Covid-19 in Northland turns out to be community transmission the Government’s overarching objective must be avoiding another lockdown,” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “The best news would be that this is a false alarm, ...
E tū Lifewise homecare members have been taking strike and picket action since December 2020 for basic improvements in their working conditions. Members are asking for increased sick and bereavement leave, a collective agreement, and more guaranteed ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 24. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nz1.15pm: Suspected community case in NorthlandHealth officials are investigating a suspected community case of Covid-19 in Northland, related to someone who was recently released from managed isolation and quarantine, the NZ Herald is reporting.A spokesperson for Covid-19 response ...
We’re only a few weeks into the year, and already there are two new seasons of Drag Race. Are we in danger of reaching peak Drag Race? In the first month of this year, there’s been more RuPaul’s Drag Race than ever. The 13th season of the flagship US version debuted ...
In her first years of adulthood, Jai Breitnauer found herself living in a bold and hopeful nation. More than two decades on, she laments on how the Britain we know now came to be.Apparently, fish off the coast of the United Kingdom are happier because they’re British. This is what ...
Dunedin writer Victor Billot resumes his weekly odes to New Zealanders in the news. This week: the blogging firm of Michael Bassett, Don Brash and Rodney HideThree Men in a BoatIt sounds like a conveyancing firm in Levin.It sounds like TV funny guys who’ll ...
Under a thick layer of concrete at the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacramentin Christchurch is a metal box likely containing hundreds of holy relics – a historical treasure trove set to be uncovered after 50 years of near total obscurity.As the earth shook and buildings crumbled, a statue of ...
Bananas are unequivocally the best fruit in the world, and there’s nothing you can say to change my mind, writes Alice Webb-Liddall.I was about 15 when I realised that halftime banana cake wasn’t a tradition outside of my family. On the day of an All Blacks game a banana cake ...
Summer reissue: Join Michèle A’Court, Alex Casey and Leonie Hayden as On the Rag looks at how the world around us has been built by men, for men. First published December 7, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is funded by its members ...
At an antagonistic hearing yesterday, the internet giant laid out the ‘worst case scenario’. And Facebook is also considering an ‘amputation’. Hal Crawford was watching.Google is poised to hit self-destruct in Australia according to a fractious Senate hearing into an unprecedented law that will force digital giants to pay money ...
It’s great to hear Phil Twyford celebrating a success. Not a personal ministerial success, it’s fair to say, but a success nevertheless related to arms control. The arms on which Twyford is focused, it should be noted, will make quite a mess if they are triggered. They tend to be ...
Duncan Greive and Leonie Hayden were young hip hop heads and music journalists during the era captured in a new documentary about the rise and fall of South Auckland hip hop label Dawn Raid. Here they discuss the film and their memories (what’s left of them) of that time. Warning: contains ...
Houses might be the most popular and inflated purchases in New Zealand, but there are plenty of other products that are seeing soaring demand and prices over the past few months. Here’s a list of what New Zealanders are spending their money on with international travel out of the picture.Used ...
"The young boy leaps, the muscles in his thighs tensing and twisting as he lifts from the handrail": the noble art of bombing, by Pātea writer Airana Ngarewa A beautifully muscled boy is posted on the side of a pool, his feet fixed to the top of a pair of ...
How Waiwera Hot Pools went from New Zealand’s most visited water park to dereliction and decay. Many who grew up in Auckland likely have fond memories of Waiwera Hot Pools. Like me, they remember summer days spent racing down the slides and playing in the naturally hot pools. But how did ...
A government contract for a P rehab programme was canned after half a million dollars of taxpayer money was given out. Aaron Smale investigates. The Ministry of Health spent over half a million dollars on a P Rehab contract before pulling the pin because there were no results or progress reports. ...
Kia Koropp and her husband John Daubeny have been cruising the Pacific, Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean over the past decade with their two children onboard their 50ft yacht, Atea. Starting in 2011 from Auckland, New Zealand, they have sailed more than 64,000 kilometres and just completed their longest ...
We are drowning out the natural world with synthetic sounds, and it’s getting worse, writes Michelle Langstone.It used to be quiet once. Remember that? Remember the hush that settled over the cities like the silence that comes down in a snowstorm? It’s less than a year since Aotearoa first locked ...
Summer reissue: Join Michèle A’Court, Alex Casey and Leonie Hayden in the latest episode of On the Rag as they examine the topic of boobs from every possible angle. First published November 16, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is funded by its ...
Seventy-five years after the US detonated the first nuclear tests in the Pacific, New Zealand pledges its support to Joe Biden's first tentative step towards disarmament. Today, the United Nations Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons comes into effect, making it illegal for New Zealand and the 50 other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Terry, Professor of Psychology, University of Southern Queensland The challenge of bringing the world’s best tennis players and support staff, about 1,200 people in all, from COVID-ravaged parts of the world to our almost pandemic-free shores was always going to be ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Geoffrey Browne, Research Fellow in International Urban Development, University of Melbourne The Victorian government has committed to removing 75 road/rail level crossings across Melbourne by 2025. That’s the fastest rate of removal in the city’s history. The scale of the investment — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW In an age of hyperpartisan politics, the Biden presidency offers a welcome centrism that might help bridge the divides. But it is also Biden’s economic centrism that offers a chance to cut through what has become ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Stevens, Lecturer in History, University of Waikato In a year of surprises, one of the more pleasant was the recent runaway viral popularity of 19th century sea shanties on TikTok. A collaborative global response to pandemic isolation, it saw singers and ...
The sudden departure of Graine Moss from her Chief Executive role at Oranga Tamariki is a vital first step in a sequence of changes that must take place at the Ministry according to a group of wahine Māori leaders. Dame Naida Glavish, Dame Tariana Turia, ...
A new poem from Dunedin poet Jenny Powell.Her uncle’s eyeShe introduced us to her uncle’s eye floating in a jar.Lost in an accident, he hadn’t wanted to lose it again. He left it to her in his will.We must have looked shocked. ‘Don’t worry,’ she said. ‘I turn him to ...
The chief executive of Oranga Tamariki is quitting, leaving behind an agency she’s admitted suffers from structural racism. Justin Giovannetti looks at the future of Oranga Tamariki.Grainne Moss’s tenure as head of Oranga Tamariki has been untenable since November when the government’s senior Māori minister wouldn’t express any confidence in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Sainsbury, Senior Lecturer Composition, Australian National University Despite having different cultural backgrounds and experiences — Indigenous composers with an Indigenous mentor, and a pianist descended from Anglo-colonial history — it is nevertheless possible to create a project that can serve as ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Plank, Professor in Applied Mathematics, University of Canterbury With new, more infectious variants of COVID-19 detected around the world, and at New Zealand’s border, the risk of further level 3 or 4 lockdowns is increased if those viruses get into the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Hogg, Lecturer in Psychology, Charles Sturt University Horse racing is an ethical hotbed in Australia. The Melbourne Cup alone has seen seven horses die after racing since 2013, and animal cruelty protesters have become a common feature at carnivals. The latest ...
Right now, our most fiery national debate is over whether New Zealanders were nice to the singer Amanda Palmer in a café. Desperate to restore peace in our nation, Hayden Donnell went in search of the truth.Joe Biden had barely finished calling for unity when Amanda Palmer posted a tweet ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 When We Cease to Understand the World by Benjamin Labatut (Pushkin Press, $37)Maths, cyanide, suicide, gardening; ye ...
Wellington artist Estère isn’t just breaking boundaries, she’s dissecting them. Maddi Rowe spoke to her about her new album, Archetypes.“That’s the story of pelicans, they’ll stab themselves in the heart to feed their young.”Despite the somewhat dark subject matter, Estère Dalton’s eyes sparkle with fascination. We’ve met to discuss Archetypes, ...
Cycling advocates are welcoming new advice from the Transport Agency on safe cycling. "Cyclists hate it when drivers pass too close. That's scary and dangerous," said Patrick Morgan from Cycling Action Network. "So it's encouraging to see ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tilman Ruff, Honorary Principal Fellow, School of Population and Global Health, University of Melbourne Today, many around the world will celebrate the first multilateral nuclear disarmament treaty to enter into force in 50 years. The UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear ...
The Public Service Association welcomes the creation of a Chief Executive role to lead the public service’s pay equity work, and the appointment of Grainne Moss to this position. "Unions and public service employers are currently working ...
The Council of Trade Unions is warning that the Consumer Price Index (CPI) figures out today illustrate that the cost of living is increasing disproportionately for those on lower incomes; resulting in the poor getting poorer. CTU Economist Craig ...
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Looking forward to seeing the results of Fonterra being taken to the Financial Markets Authority. Would have been better if Landcorp had done it, but at least someone has the heft to hold them to account.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12263812
Big companies can have big problems…whats so new about that.
Its a cooperative which HAS to take the milk …every day whether it wants it or not. It cant say during peak season, we are cutting volumes by 5% this month as the market for milk powder is weak or the cheese factory is past its production limit. No siree.
Ask sheep and beef farmers about the joys of not having a guaranteed buyer at the same price all year, and you have to pay to deliver to the works.
Why anyone would invest in these non-transacting Fonterra shares escapes me.
You're not a transacting shareholder, so have very limited rights and say over how the company is run, and you're giving your money to farmers, and Theo Spierings, to play with. They may pay you a dividend, in a good year, maybe. And your shares may hold their value, on a rising market with a string of good years.
Otherwise bend over and look like you're enjoying it.
This could become a telling commentary on New Zealand corporate and investor culture. Not holding my breath though.
Sterling work from Kirsty Johnston and Chris Knox behind the Herald paywall.
While the 'experts' have been rabidly and wrongly apportioning blame for the measles outbreak to the 'anti-vax' movement the real reasons for the declining immunisation rates have been largely ignored.
Those of us who have tried to point out that blaming so called anti vaxxers has simply made the situation worse have been dismissed…or worse.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018686731/nz-s-heart-breaker-rheumatic-fever-rates-on-the-rise
"Vaccination rates are dropping across the country as fewer families immunise their babies.
Now, in the midst of a measles epidemic, a Herald analysis of immunisation data finds just 77 per cent of six-month-olds are now getting their vaccines on time.
While the debate has been centred around the impact of the anti-vaxx movement, the numbers paint a different picture.
Plummeting vaccination rates are being driven largely by the failure to immunise babies born into poor or Māori families – not by parents deliberately opting out. "
Oh dear Rosemary … so you are an anti-vaxxer
[don’t start – weka]
Oh dear Rosemary … so you are an anti-vaxxer
Err…how do you arrive at that conclusion?
from the wording you use
'While the 'experts' have been rabidly and wrongly apportioning blame for the measles outbreak to the 'anti-vax' movement.
But of course thats my opinion on your wording . Can you correct my mistaken view?
People decline medical treatment or interventions all the time, thats OK.
What is a plague is those people who actively campaign to get others not to immunize, those are generally called anti -vaxxers
As I found further down about the 1990s massive epidemics , low immunization rates – the aim of the anti vaxxers- make epidemics spread.
Or to put it another way,
A 5 percent drop in childhood measles vaccination levels would cause annual measles cases to triple,
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/07/small-drop-in-measles-vaccinations-would-have-outsized-effect.html
Stuff has a detailed series of articles issued today with some very good reporting,finding that it is the antivax movement ,and detailing the effects of the perpetrators .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/114545019/antivaxxers-target-new-parents-while-others-nurse-their-critically-ill-kids
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2019/09/parent-trap-vaccination-measles-immunisation/
The question arises that should NZ call a measles emergency? Invocation of the Civil defence act emergency powers would enable suppression of the transfer of false information during an epidemic.The censor would be required to review any information imparted etc.
It's a mix of both Rosemary and you know it. Trying to hide behind the well known fact that poverty stricken families are also failing to have their children immunised does you no favour. This has long been the case and until these families are better educated and better informed it will always be the case.
Anti-vaxxers have a great deal to answer for, and I think it is about time the government rolled out a campaign to counter the pseudo scientific crap being spread across the internet. It might look impressive to the gullible of mind but it is still crap.
Babies and toddlers in particular are going to die due to this latest epidemic, and those peddling the anti-vax myths have to take their fair portion of the blame.
Anti-vaxxers have a great deal to answer for,
You're going to have to provide some evidence to back that up Anne. It is simply too easy to blame 'anti-vaxxers' for declining immunisation rates.
And are you assuming that these 'anti-vaxxers' are part of some organised group whose major mission is to convince parents that all vaccines are bad?
It is just as likely that the individuals who make up the 1300 claims of significant vaccine injury accepted by ACC since 2006 have whanau and friends who have been influenced by these events.
Seeing a previously 'normal' child now in a wheelchair being peg fed and having to be suctioned to clear secretions because of the vaccine induced brain damage sends a powerful message. Having our health authorities deny/dismiss that these adverse events happen….or worse…not warn parents that a very high fever and resulting seizures after a vaccination is not normal…is negligent.
Trouble is… with suppressing discussion about vaccine adverse events and casting all who have concerns about possible side-effects from vaccines into a pseudo criminal group who are personally responsible for every single case of measles that ends up in hospital you're simply going to drive the discussion underground.
Surely it would be better to be able to have open and transparent discussions…instead of resorting to name calling?
might do a post on this. Have you written about this Rosemary? I'll pull up our previous conversation, but was wondering if you'd published on this.
I got a copy of the Herald article, it's pretty clear where the issues lie.
compare it with the stuff articles.
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2019/09/parent-trap-vaccination-measles-immunisation/
Okay…so we have a bunch of trendy 'yummy mummy' midwives catering to the well heeled of Auckland. These are the folk with spare $$$ to be 'educated' about vaccines and immunisation.
How many of the un-vaccinated measles sufferers parents attended such a course?
Not many. If any.
From that Stuff article:
Herne Bay, one of the wealthiest places in the country has seen rates for all milestone ages fall from 93 to 84 per cent in two years.
A few kilometres across the city to the east in Glen Innes – among the bottom quarter of most deprived suburbs in the country in 2013 – rates rose about three percentage points in the same time.
We've had a decade of social-media-spread fear-mongering about vaccinations, and this data is backing it up – falling vaccination rates doesn't map to areas of social deprivation.
The reasons for not vaccinating vary, and in the most vulnerable populations access remains the core issue, not anti-vax material. Afaik this has been the position of the MoH for a long time.
This doesn't mean anti-vax material isn't also an issue, but railing against social media use while we could instead be urging the govt to increase access seems stupid.
ta. Interesting counterpoint, their graphs are hard going though.
5% decline rate @ 8 months.
Surely the lowest-hanging fruit – and possibly the difference between herd immunity and a nationwide outbreak.
Epidemic outbreaks spread throughout the population geometrically,not only those not vaccinated but the immune deficient.
Yeah, but the unvaccinated are the ones we can do something about.
1300 claims accepted since 2006 vs 759 cases in 6 months.
Climaction. I am almost at the point of begging here. Ffs can someone please find the New Zealand data that records the number of cases of measles and the number of deaths from measles each year since 1940…like this…https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2013
Then, perhaps, we can have the conversation as to whether or not it is acceptable to dismiss and diminish those who have suffered significant injuries due to vaccinations at a rate of over 100 per year.
Bearing in mind that the majority of cases of measles resolve with no lasting effects.
Have you considered asking statsnz or the ministry of health?
The very best I've found is this…https://surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnualRpt/AnnualSurv/2017/2017AnnualNDReport_FINAL.pdf
….which thwarts my bid to gain stats back to 1940 because,
" Measles immunisation was introduced in 1969 [18]and measles has been a notifiable disease since June 1996. " Wtf? Not a notifiable disease until 1996? For the supposed Death Plague?
Grrr….the frustrating thing is that it is difficult to assess what has not been accurately measured. One has to wonder why the data has not been collected or collated into one document like the UK stats. No wonder we're left with readily discredited anecdata.
Calling Hanlon.
It's not the "death plague". It is, however, an infectious disease that kills a larger proportion of the people who get it than the vaccine that prevents it.
But no, I meant literally email or call the ministry of health or similar.
For deaths, try trawling the NZ yearbooks – they stop reporting measles deaths separately apparently in the early 1980s, though before then measles deaths are reported. Went to listing major causes of death.
Who's Hanlon?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
I find stats pretty good to deal with. Not sure MoH is worth the hassle unless you know exactly who to ask.
It is, however, an infectious disease that kills a larger proportion of the people who get it than the vaccine that prevents it.
Ah. The Greater Good Argument. Small comfort for the child who loses The Lottery .
There should at least be acknowledgement of these injuries and proper compensation. In recognition of the sacrifice.
Compensation like ACC?
Better comfort than losing a "die from measles" lottery.
The greater good argument would be more sound if it did take into account people damaged by vaccines. At the moment there's a taboo on speaking their names. That's just shitty. Maybe the next greater good argument is that we can hide those people because it helps a better vaccine engagement. Meanwhile, we run a shitty neoliberal economy that sacrifices large numbers of people all the time, and the public debate around measles is hating on anti-vaxxers instead of expecting the MoH to do it's job better and make access to the MMR vaccine much easier.
Sometimes vaccine harm is emphasised while minimising e.g. measles harm. Not just deaths, but longer term conditions as well. And I doubt they'd get ACC coverage.
yeah ACC is a pretty discriminatory system.
The polarisation of the debate makes it hard to see all those people.
@McFlock re vaccine harm vs long term disability from measles.
1300plus accepted vaccine injury claims by ACC since 2006.
Rightfully treated as a Treatment Injury by ACC and a fluctuating (depending on the flag over the Beehive) rate of acceptance.
(If there as a way of posting the OIA reply here I would.)
If one could prove there were errors or omissions by medical personnel in treating a case of measles that led to a death or impairment then I guess give an ACC claim a shot. Nothing ventured.
Let's not start a side discussion on the inequities between ACC and MOH for supports for long term impairments.
1: all vaccines vs measles is not a reasonable comparison of harm – what's the ACC rate for the MMR vaccine specifically?
2: harm from vaccine preventable diseases in a vaccinated population will be significantly smaller than the harm from those diseases in an unvaccinated population. To judge the value of vaccines, it would be more logical to compare vaccine harm against disease harm in an unvaccinated population, no?
is anyone here arguing for an unvaccinated population?
Another variable is standard of living. Also access to health care if one gets sick.
Vaccine vs unvaxxed population seems to be at least reasonably doable, as opposed to guessing the disease prevalence at some sort of equilibrium level of vaccination where the number of opt-outers or delayers is balanced by the selfish who only vaccinate when there is a threat level they can understand, incorporating any other shortcomings in health literacy or systemic alienation that might be a barrier to primary healthcare.
I suspect such math would be more in line with economics than the real world, and with similar reliability.
Rosemary, you or someone else could try this link and then have a chat to Stats NZ to ask for the measles stats using the offer of help in the pop-up on the lower right hand side of the page Sorry, I am not available to do this as while I sometimes still read TS, I am rarely interested in commenting here these days.
<a href="https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/births-and-deaths?
Thanks vw. I just might send them an email…or…make an OIA to the Misery of Health. It disturbs me greatly that this guy Rainger/Ranger is saying..
" The fatality rate for measles was one in 1000, Rainger said, and as the numbers rose the likelihood of a fatality did too. "
…when, unlike the data from the UK showing the number of deaths per 1000 cases to be many times lower, there is no readily available pool of NZ stats to support such a claim.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/115469156/auckland-measles-outbreak-arphs-criticises-misinformed-antivaxxers-as-number-of-cases-passes-800
I've suggested this previously, but IMHO when the annual death rate from measles cases is low (maybe not comparatively low, but low in an absolute sense – 1 in 1000 is a low rate in absolute terms), off a historically low annual number of cases (due to vaccination programmes), then that annual death rate it will bounce around a bit.
For the last 28 years, NZ's annual death rate from measles has been VERY low (zero; not bouncing around at all), so for the last 28 years NZ's annual death rate from measles has been the same or lower than that in the UK, because for some of those years the UK has also had no deaths from measles, while in other years it has had a few deaths, including in 1999 when the UK's rate of death from cases of measles (3 deaths from ~2400 cases) was higher than NZ's annual death rate during our biggest 'recent' measles epidemic (in 1991), and much higher than in NZ during every year since 1991.
To begin to understand why there was roughly 1 death for every 1000 cases of measles in NZ in 1991, the first port of call might be health workers/administrators/managers in the thick of it – there must quite a few still around. There was probably a health review commissioned, possibly some academic analysis too. But the reasons could include, or even be largely due to, chance, just as it was probably chance that the UK had a higher annual death rate from measles in 1999 than NZ has had for a very long time.
There may be some risk to patient safety, in terms of health sector/worker preparedness/familiarity in treating serious (life-threatening) cases of measles associated with this year's outbreak, given that there hasn't been a major outbreak for 28 years. But, hopefully, some will remember.
After all, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it "
Tbh, I wouldn't try to attach too much significance to year-to-year differences in annual rates of death from measles in or between developed countries. There will have been an enormous amount of medical/academic research on this by 1000s of health professionals and researchers, and I doubt that they have missed something I'm likely to spot, and/or are trying to cover up some glaring statistical anomaly.
This is an informative brief presentation by a medical doctor who thinks the death rate from measles is 3-4 per thousand, which seems very high (hence ‘don’t attach too much significance’, etc.) There's also a nice (Australian) comparison of the risks associated with contracting measles and the risks associated with being vaccinated for measles – very helpful.
http://www.ncirs.org.au/mmr-vaccine-decision-aid/comparing-risks-measles
How many of the damaged are from the measles vaccine? 1% of the damaged a year? 5%?
Think we need some perspective on this stat you are throwing round
See here…https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2019/#comment-1651769
Thanks Rosemary. I was hoping the MSM would address this. Pity it's behind a paywall. This has long been the issue, that the lowering numbers of vaccination in NZ are in part due to poor access to healthcare. The people who choose intentionally to not vaccinate are still afaik a small % of the population. I'd like to see some research done on that.
Thanks weka.
This is the sole reason I coughed up the $$$ to read work like this from a journalist I respect.
I have linked on more than one occasion here on TS to the same databases the writers use. The data tells a different story to the one promulgated by the angry ranty DHBs who were embarrassed by their falling vaccination rates.
It was back in March that Dr Nikki Turner attempted to counter the 'its all the fault of the anti vaxxers!!!' framing that these DHB numpties were promoting at the Select Committee…https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/384112/hospital-bosses-want-anti-anti-vax-campaign
Sigh.
There are two major issues that I see here…the most significant is deprivation and difficulty accessing reliable health care in some communities. Only true transformational governance will ease this. It might alsoaddress that true indicator of our third world health status….rheumatic ever and the two hundred deaths per year from preventable heart damage.
The other issue is the fact that some New Zealand children have been injured by vaccines. Not many, but a significant enough number to be relevant to any discussion about vaccine efficacy and safety. We are not allowed to discuss these incidents without a barrage of abuse and accusations of being anti- vax and hence pro-plague.
I suggest that folk go out of doors into their communities and speak with the parents of these vaccine damaged children.
(And I'm not talking about bloody autism.)
I see it similarly. Also, the people choosing not to access from informed consent (so not necessarily the anti-vaxers, although overlaps), often have a good enough standard of living so that if their child gets the measles or whooping cough they're more able to provide optimal care for that child (thus decreasing the chances of complications). I'd love to see some research on that too, but it's another of the taboo subjects.
"speak with the parents of these vaccine damaged children."
Oh dear. I cant see how campaigning against vaccination is allowed on this site. Personal choice is fine as for all medical interventions
The facts are
"The death rate for measles is about one-to-three people in every thousand. An estimated 10 per cent of cases require hospital treatment, and up to 30 per cent of people will develop complications, including pneumonia, diarrhoea and ear infections."
Thats only one of the diseases we vaccinate for as measles is covered by MMR Measles , Mumps,
Rubella is particularly nasty for unborn children leading to severe abnormalities
No surprise here: "The number of rubella cases has fallen dramatically since the vaccine became available in 1969. "
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/111238229/people-have-forgotten–past-measles-epidemics-killed-hospitalised-hundreds
https://www.immune.org.nz/diseases/rubella
[perhaps you need some time out to reread the Policy. You were warned by me as a mod, and Rosemary asked you why you were calling her an anti-vaxxer, and you’ve ignored both of those and just carried on with misrepresenting her position. I don’t want to have to spend moderator time today reading your comments to see if you’re still passive-aggressive flaming. 2 day ban – weka]
I cant see how campaigning against vaccination is allowed on this site.
Are you accusing me of campaigning against vaccinations because I suggest folk go and speak with the families of those 1300 plus people who have been vaccine injured in the past 13 years in NZ?
Really???
"The death rate for measles is about one-to-three people in every thousand.
Errr….https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2013
Clearly shows much lower death rate in the UK.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why a supposedly first world country like NZ anticipates such a high death rate from what used to be a nasty but usually survivable childhood illness.
Perhaps we should also talk about our shameful rates of other third world diseases.
Maybe death rates are sometimes higher during measles epidemics because public health services are stretched thinner. That may have contributed to the comparatively high rate of death (1 death in 1000 cases) during NZ's 1991 measles epidemic (7000 cases).
In NZ, no deaths have been attributed to measles since 1991, so a big shout out to GPs and other health workers (and of course to parents who took advantage of free vaccinations for their children) for that excellent result.
If the current measles outbreak is restricted to one or two thousand NZers then maybe the health service will be able to prevent any measles-related deaths, but I'm guessing that health spokespersons don't want to appear too confident about that, for fear of vaccination rates falling still further.
In NZ, no deaths have been attributed to measles since 1991, so a big shout out to GPs and other health workers (and of course to parents who took advantage of free vaccinations for their children) for that excellent result.
For the life of me I cannot find similar data for NZ…ie…number of cases of measles and number of deaths from measles per year.
A pity, or we could have made a true comparison.
Of course the parents of fully vaccinated children cannot claim credit for there having been no deaths due to measles because their children, being vaccinated, will not have got measles. The UK data refers to deaths from actual measles.
I still don't understand why here in NZ there were a reported 7 deaths from around 7000 notified cases of measles while in the UK in the same year (1991) there was 1 death from 9680 notified cases.
There is something seriously wrong with our health system.
higher mortality among Māori and Pacifica people?
I would guess there is a big variation over time though, so your idea about getting all stats over decades makes sense.
Because it's smallish numbers.
Pretty good confidence interval generator here.
Which statistical test to go by for these numbers is an esoteric discussion of which I know nothing. The point is that the lower confidence bound for the 7/7000 death rate for any given test is slightly lower than the upper bound for the 1/9680 rate (bear in mind the comparison numbers are in different magnitudes).
Does this mean there isn't some systemic difference? No. Just that we can't say for sure that either system is better than another, based on the samples we have to work with.
The rate ratios indicate there might me some difference using Byars, but it's not a binary "no difference/significant difference" situation. The intervals are pretty wide, and the gap is pretty narrow.
I freely admit to a superficial understanding of statistics, and the deep stuff you're directing me towards has given me a headache.
I will consult my stats and data advisor later.
I didn't follow that either. Do you mean that in any year there can be a wide variation because of the small numbers?
Basically, yeah.
I'm not a stats engineer (more a data tradie lol) but the gist is that we're looking at whether the difference is actually a difference in the ability of each system, or is it just broadly what we'd expect from identical systems with reasonable variation in outcomes. E.g. if the car accident rate lowered from year to year, is this just random noise in the system or have things actually improved?
So the statisticians created probability tests for different circumstances. Some are p-values, personally I prefer CIs. p-values hurt my brain, and people love to view their significance as binary "care or do not care about result", whereas things are more subtle than that.
So using Byars, our 7/7000 equals a rate of 1 per 1000 with a lower bound of 0.4/1000 and upper of 2/1000.
1/9680 gives a rate of 0.1/1000, with a CI range of 0.001/1000 to 0.57/1000. Obviously one rate is ten times the other as observed, but because the CIs overlap we can't be reasonably sure that the results won't be swapped the next time each health service faces an outbreak.
Now, they only just overlap so there might be something there if we look more closely with larger samples, but at this stage it's not a given either way.
A chart example of NZ child assault deaths is here. The numbers bounce about, the rates bounce about, but because the confidence intervals are so wide there probably isn't any real difference between them all. Even the lowest rate might just be an outlier, because we have so many datapoints so that might just be the way 95% CI (or 1:20 odds) rolled that time.
edit:
BTW, my math tends to fold in on itself and deliver garbage, so if anyone wants to check it please do. If I’m in a hurry or multitasking, I still find my code screws up because the alligator teeth point the wrong direction when looking for high-low pass filters lol
you know my eyes started glazing over when you said p values right?
I'm assuming (loosely) that it's probably both the maths and there are factors affecting actual rates (NZ being different from the UK). Having the long term yearly rates would be useful.
If it's any consolation, I spent 20 minutes trying to make sure my conversion of rates per ten thousand to rates per thousand went the right direction 🙂
I got Matt to check my maths recently for a post where I was working with millions and tens of thousands. I was only out by a factor of 10. That would still have been fairly embarrassing, lol.
mod note above.
When we were trying to have an inclusive nation and counting people as citizens not human resources, there were very strong moves against TB, and there were health buses that would travel to areas where you could go for vaccination against polio. These two diseases are not totally beaten but we need now the same sort of initiative to get measles down and under control again. Capice?
It is wrong for government and the Dept of Health to do the contract thing and lay the problem at overworked DHBs feet. The policies of the government have resulted in numbers of incoming people bringing more disease and health problems with them. Since the welfare budget was severely cut in 1991 it has never been adequate for families wellbeing, and without that income, and with fewer state houses for lower-income people we have a rolling, rising problem.
The PM himself said he was planning on having a low-wage economy, it takes a boofhead not to see that we are not extending services to people whose needs have been neglected. And lack of quality welfare leads to lack of quality in a country's achievements and standards.
thats not correct. Waiheke, Herne bay and the coromandel are leading the trend down, and they aren’t poverty stricken.
the science is settled on immunisation. Defending the “right to choose” to vaccinate is akin to defending the right opt out of Climate change prevention measures because of the chance of personal adverse outcomes. Humanity is at stake hear. Vaccine damage occurs at an infinitesimal rate compared to the occurrence of infectious diseases during an outbreak.
Herd immunity needs around 90% vaccinated rate (according to science). No reason why the 5% or so of the population that choose to not vaccinate shouldn't be allowed to.
Writing off the people who have been damaged doesn’t help convince anti-vaxxers btw, it makes things worse.
so when vaccinations are at 88% of the population, that 88% should be imperilled because of the poor choices of, at that point, a critical 5%?
Good to know that 5% of the population should be allowed to make choices that can adversely affect the other 95%, and shouldn’t be made to feel bad about it either
Climaction. Defending the “right to choose” to vaccinate is akin to defending the right opt out of Climate change prevention measures because of the chance of personal adverse outcomes.
Weird conflation…but nevermind…it is to be expected from certain groups who have an almost religious zeal when presenting their particular views.
So, and correct me if I'm wrong, those individuals who choose not to vaccinate because of well founded concerns over adverse effects are to blame for 'imperilling' the 88% who are vaccinated.
Excuse me…but if the vaccine is effective (as well as safe) how can the unvaccinated possibly imperil the fully vaccinated?
And how dare you dismiss the experiences of those who have been significantly adversely affected by a vaccine.
How dare I not subscribe to your views that your hurt is of greater meaning than the families of those poor defenceless children suffering from preventable disease they are too young to be immunised against? Interesting value pyramid you live within.
Vaccines are effective and safe. How many of the “vaccine damaged” 1300 since 2006 were from the measles vaccine? A critical part of your stat missing there when denying that not vaccinating kids by choice has no bearing on a measle outbreak
Vaccines are effective and safe. How many of the “vaccine damaged” 1300 since 2006 were from the measles vaccine?
Bear with me a minute. This is very difficult to ascertain as this report…
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/topic_sheets/adverse-event-summary.pdf …is at odds with the ACC data I obtained through an OIA. The above document states that between 2005 and 2009 that " Of the 4,757 reports, 174 (3.6%) meet the criteria of a serious report." Peculiar as ACC data shows 299 accepted claims for vaccine injury during the same period.
There is a wee chart in the Adverse Events Summary that does indicate which particular vaccine is being 'blamed' for the adverse event. MMR accounts for 25 of the 174 of the total 'serious' reports.
25/174 over a 5 year period. Or 5 a year. Out of how many vaccines delivered? 57000, assuming a 7% redux on births in 2016.
One in every 11500 could cause a severe reaction. Almost as unlucky as getting struck by lightning at 1 in 12000.
But lightning isn’t contagious and there is an actual choice about being outside. There isn’t a choice if you are too young to be immunised.
The discrepancy in numbers between the two might be an administrative lag between date of vaccination, onset of adverse event, reporting date, and the date that ACC made its decision.
Additionally, there might be some differences in criteria – adverse events are any event within X period of the vaccination, while ACC might have different causal threshold.
As for 25 serious reports, "serious" includes "hospitalisations", so I suggest the number of MMR-correlated incidents in that five year period has been thoroughly outstripped by hospitalisations in the current outbreak. Probably several times over by now.
A far cry from 1300 being a meaningful figure in relation the number involved in this outbreak
Australia has 99 % vacination rate. No vacination,no playgroup,kindy or school.How simple is THAT.This is a major failure of Government public health policy.
Spot on Rosemary, the consequences of regional differences in vaccination rates in NZ, due to socioeconomic, cultural and other factors, seem to mirror trends seen in Europe.
Measles in Europe: record number of both sick and immunized (lessons for NZ?)
“This means that gaps at local level still offer an open door to the virus,” says Dr Zsuzsanna Jakab. “We cannot achieve healthier populations globally, as promised in WHO’s vision for the coming five years, if we do not work locally.”
1990s epidemics were greater , many thousands caught the disease. What happened then.. really dont think there was some sort of national emergency proclaimed
"
In 1991, the Soviet Union collapsed, Jim Bolger was prime minister, and New Zealand was sick with measles.
Vaccination coverage was low and the highly infectious disease was ripping through the population. Estimates vary, but as many as 40,000 to 60,000 people likely got sick, according to a previous version of the immunisation handbook, put out by the Ministry of Health.
Seven people died, including four unimmunised children. Six years later, in 1997, a second, smaller epidemic struck. There were 2169 cases around the country. About 950 people were hospitalised across both events, according to the 2011 handbook.
"People have forgotten what used to happen when we didn't have such high vaccination rates," said Dr Jill Sherwood, a public health medicine specialist at ESR, a Crown Research Institute."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/111238229/people-have-forgotten–past-measles-epidemics-killed-hospitalised-hundreds
Seems as though the reseachers say without immunisation the cases reach into the tens of thousands.
Because there's absolutely nothing else threatening the wellbeing of the country right now, the most tech-literate Government ever!1 has decided that it's a good time to do some pearl-clutching about adult content on the Internet.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/08/porn-crackdown-the-government-s-moves-to-stop-kids-accessing-adult-material.html
are you objecting to the way they are doing this, or that they are doing it at all?
There's a measles epidemic, men and boys are killing themselves in greater numbers than ever before, people are sleeping in cars, carbon emissions are increasing, water quality is declining, so of course it's time for a bit of "won't someone think of the children" dead-cat distraction.
Here are some things that have my spidey sense tingling:
" Five draft laws have been proposed to the Minister by Family First "
–oh neat, Family First. Just who I need advice on matters of sexuality and freedom of expression.
" Directing the state department of education to take a direct role in educating parents of enrolled students on the harms of pornographic material. "
–telling parents what to think doesn't sound outside the department's purview AT ALL.
"Options being looked at include: R18 access to porn websites: Residents will have to provide age ID to have access "
–hands up who trusts the NZ government to secure an enormous digital collection of identity documentation?
Valid point about family first lobbying ministries, but the real question should be, with the large number of children regularly accessing hardcore pornagraphy, especially that which is degrading and exploitative of women, and the persistence of rape culture, misogyny and brutal disrespect to them in our society, can we afford not to impose restrictions on who gets to view it?
Those too are valid points. But in the real world we also have to acknowledge two things:
1. The NZ Government is technically illiterate. It wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to block some people's access to parts of the Internet without screwing other parts of the Internet up for everyone.
2. One person's perversion is another person's expression of identity. If the Government blocks (for example) trans or non-binary porn for people who are over the legal age of consent, it will be a disaster.
Perhaps you could characterise both points as parts of the same problem – it’s crazy to trust the imposition of morality on the Internet to wealthy, able-bodied, old, white, straight, cisgender technophobes.
Adult people can perve their hearts out for all I care, but the issue is children having free access and the damage it does not only to the viewer, but those who form relationships or encounter them in the present and future.
In the old days you found a mag on the common or under your dads bed, and that was your exposure to porn, but this digital media age has much worse content, viewed by many many more people.
I'm not a prude, nor do I have the solution, though I think for the safety and mental well being of our younglings, something should be done, whatever it is.
Not a sausage from the Kremlin admitting that it was a Soviet one, too.
German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier marked the 80th anniversary of Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland in Warsaw on Sunday by asking for forgiveness for "Germany's historical guilt."
"My country unleashed a horrific war that would cost more than 50 million people — among them millions of Polish citizens — their lives. This war was a German crime," the president said in a speech before Polish President Andrzej Duda, US Vice President Mike Pence, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe, as well as representatives of 30 other countries.
https://www.dw.com/en/german-president-asks-for-polish-forgiveness-on-wwii-anniversary/a-50247207
very good point Joe90
The Russians' fond belief that they were hapless, peace-loving victims of WW2 is something Putin's trying to reinforce, so chances of an admission of guilt = 0.
I thought Soviet mass-murder of Poles was accepted as canon after Krushchev's "Secret Speech"?
These days, as far as Russia's concerned the war started on 22 June 1941. Quibbling about who did what before that is for bigoted, ant-Slavic westerners who want to undermine the heroic Soviet achievement because they're embarrassed at their own countries' dismal failure to contain the Nazi threat. It's going down a treat inside Russia – not so much in Poland, Finland, the Baltic Republics or Romania, mind…
Point.
Sudden stratospheric warming reaching stratospheric heights.
http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/gif/pole10_sh.gif
Warming seems to have paused Ozone mass loss.
https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/meteorology/figures/merra/ozone/toms_omds_2019_omps+merra2.pdf
The response to the Bridges National Cancer "Plan" recently seemed to be heavily commented on in MSM.
An actual Cancer Plan published yesterday seemed to have a muted response, except for the expected rapid denigrating response from National. "Too little. Too late." Strange for a National Party after 9 long years?
Unless the government already had such a 'cancer plan' in the pipeline before National presented theirs, you have to wonder why they let National and the MSM set the agenda in the first place. Who said that that was the problem de jour, that everyone has to address this week? It's important, to be sure, but why not focus on your own legislative agenda?
David Simon has the wingnuts exercised.
Kia Ora Newshub.
Aotearoa is no Australia just because they like using the big stick userly it is used on the people who are down and out. Aotearoa can come up with a smart solution to the measles problem in Aotearoa.
The old health system was the best in the Papatuanuku in value for money and services. My experience with the health system is not good at all I seen the way that they discriminated against me and my mokopuna. I don't trust anyone in that system
Ma Te wa the Kiwi build is a good move by the Coalition government to fix the last lots Houseing short they were serving themselves rubbing there hands together reaping the capital gains cause by shonkys short.
Dorain is a powerful force from Tawhirimate and Papatuanuku we need to heed our scientists warning and drop carbon out of our lives as fast as possible.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
Its great that our Prime Minister is taking to Ngāti Porou about our Awa Tangaroa and the state of the Fisheries on the East Coast to resolve the issues that were agreed appon in the 1980s
Ka pai Chris these loan sharks cost Maori and Pacific tangata heaps of money with their huge interest charged on their loans to people who can least afford to pay it back Eco Maori dislike these people .
Tangata whenua do value our ENVIRONMENT more than western society's do we know that we are part of all things in our environment be it whenua Tangaroa or Tawhirimate.
The Tangata Whenua O Australia are being discriminated against by the Australian Crown its a very sad situation that they are in WTF it that common Tangata whenua Australia its no who's in the hinaki its who hasn't been to jail what a waste of great talenteEd tangata. Shane Phillips Ka pai with your mahi
Ngāti Manawheno it's great to see our tamariki preforming it's better for Eco Maori to see all our Wahine stepping up to the hard mahi in Aotearoa.
Ka kite Ano.