Hypocrite

47 comments on “Hypocrite ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Janet 1

   3 November 2008 at 9:57 pm

   Yes it was very sad to see such vulnerable workers being used and manipulated by the wealthy Christian right and National today. They certainly won’t be there when their jobs come under attack again. I wonder what Laila would have to say about this?

   I liked the way Helen called Key a tourist in his foray into South Auckland.
2. Alexandra 2

   3 November 2008 at 10:13 pm

   Give the workers a little credit. Some may be impressed,and others may disappointed at discovering that their heros are right wingers, as I am! Very few will be used or manipulated.
3. IrishBill 3

   3 November 2008 at 10:20 pm

   I agree Alexandra. These are the same workers who held out against a massive multinational and won. I doubt they’ll be taken in by a fifteen minute PR campaign.

   Something that many liberals don’t understand about unions is they are not about officials looking after the “poor little workers” but a vehicle workers use to consolidate and use their power for their own good.
4. Chris G 4

   3 November 2008 at 10:34 pm

   Nice stuff IrishBill, good ole Key pulling his Say what the audience wants to hear tripe.
5. Monty 5

   3 November 2008 at 10:58 pm

   Oh dear – with three days to go Labour are in serious trouble – private polling by the Socialists mean a very very bleak outlook for Labour come saturday. And as they said on TV1 (great the exposure given to this endorsement) “Priceless”. I loved the fact a pacific lad (no doubt from a staunch Labour Background and core Labour voter) is turning to vote for the Nats. I suspect that this will mean a minor uplift od 0.5% to 1.0% lift for the Nats in the polls – and that is why you are pissed.

   Key has for the past two years constantly been stepping into Heartland Labour Country. He started it by taking that Maori Kid to Waitangi and he has not stopped treading into heartland Labour Country. That is why he is at 50% in the polls (and climbing I understand) and Labour is slipping to below 30%.

   Key again held his own in the debate tonight. and overall a very good day for the National camp – in contrast – I cannot remember the last good day on the election campaign trail for the Socialists – Even the Greenies are outscoring Labour most days. This is looking very very bad for Labour. Great!
6. Robinsod 6

   3 November 2008 at 11:08 pm

   I love the fact that you feel compelled to come over to the Standard and bait people at 11 o’clock on a Monday night. There’s no missus monty. Is there monty? Do you think it might be because you are an unpleasant idiot monty? Oh I think we all know the answer to that – here’s a wee tip (no pun intended) – if National gets in your chances of getting laid won’t get any better.

   Then you’d just have to find something else to blame…
7. Tane 7

   3 November 2008 at 11:08 pm

   taking that Maori Kid to Waitangi

   I think that cynical turn of phrase says it all Monty. For Key and his minders, Aroha is a “maori kid” Key took to Waitangi. Jones and Tuigamala, bless their bigoted souls, are just a couple of browns who’ll make for a good PR opportunity.

   Also, my sources reliably tell me otherwise on the internal polling. If you want to lie, make sure your intended audience doesn’t know what’s really going on.
8. Robinsod 8

   3 November 2008 at 11:11 pm

   Jeez Tane – don’t take monty’s hate away from him. It’s all he has left. Well that and his acne…
9. barnsleybill 9

   3 November 2008 at 11:37 pm

   classy Rob… your public miss you.. Why no blogging? Nothing else to do in Wanganui..
10. Monty 10

    3 November 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Thanks Tane – I could not remember her name – Aroha (such a lovely name as well) – The pint is that Key took Aroha to Waitangi – and he has kept in touch with her since (so it indicates it was a very genuine act by John Key.)

    Also I was watching 3 news tonight – and looked closely at John Keys face at the South Auckland School he visited today – he looked genuinely delighted (as did the kids at the school) at being introduced to them.

    Robinsod – My life is too short for Hate – it is an emotion as strong as love – but completely destructive – I have so much good fortune in my life that there certainly in no room for hate – but being an Irish Catholic (from a West Coast hard drinking hard living Labour voting background) it is also against my nature to hate –

    I have much more than you could ever imagine – in terms of family, friends, career, income, wealth and health I truely am a wonderful success story. My biggest gripe and whinge is the $100,000 I will have to pay in income tax this year. But I take joy in delivering the money to a National Goverment instead of a corrupt Labour Government No matter the outtcome of the election, I will generally carry on my wonderful life. And what will become of you life after Monday. Will you even have a job (or job security?????)

    Interesting that (like Helen) all the left have to fire is insults – face it you have lost. In the meantime the Veuve Clicquot continues to chill nicely for the election night celebrations.
11. Quoth the Raven 11

    4 November 2008 at 12:21 am

    Hypocrite is an apt title for this thread seeing as we have Monty preaching here a quick google and lets look at some of Monty’s message of love:
    “Winston looks like a bully smells like a bully. The prick will not answer the questions because they will expose details that will once and for all seal this poodle’s fate.”

    “You are nothing but a judgmental irrelevant clown with the maturity of a pubescent school boy.”

    “This kid is obviously the brat of one of the few remaining Labour Supporters. ”

    I’m sure someone can look for more of Monty’s vitriol, I mean messages of love. I think this might be the first thread where monty doesn’t use the term leftard.
12. RedBack 12

    4 November 2008 at 1:54 am

    Monty the fact that you are whinging about having to part with $100k in tax this year tells us that you are worth a bob or two in the first place. I have no problem with folk who do well in life financially. Well done to you. My problem is with those who have gone through a state education system used state hospitals and drive their 4×4’s on state roads then as soon as the cash starts rolling in for them they moan about having to put back into that same state system. And therein lies the massive hypocritical hole in the neo con argument of the wealthy paying less taxes. Also I’m keen to hear how much better you think your money will be spent under a Nat govt (heavan help us) as I see that Natonal plan to slash jobs in the Ministry of Education and dare I say it a few other depts that they seem to think can run themselves on the smell of an oily rag. On John Key’s tacky PR exploits over the past year shall we dare mention the Delphine & MecGeghan Close cock ups? Plus as someone who is Ngati Kahungunu maori I found his whole ‘treat a brown kid to a trip to Waitangi’ PR stint huglely patronising and stomach churning.
13. r0b 13

    4 November 2008 at 2:09 am

    Monty: Robinsod – My life is too short for Hate – it is an emotion as strong as love – but completely destructive – I have so much good fortune in my life that there certainly in no room for hate

    Very happy to hear of your conversion Monty. Because you seem to be so full of hate…

    Monty
    June 7, 2008 at 3:42 pm
    Personaly i do not give too much of a shit about the lower clasess – I am not one of them but i never planned to be
    Monty
    Yes – the poor people can go screw themselves. When I see the parasite brother-in-law living off my hard earned taxes … I no longer give a shit about the parasites.
    Monty
    September 15, 2008 at 9:37 pm
    But I detest the parasites who are capable of working and contributing to society.
    Monty
    January 25, 2008 at 8:22 pm
    desperation by an corrupt and dying Government to do anything to hold onto power.
    Monty
    January 25, 2008 at 10:14 pm
    Labour’s Problem (and the same for their lickspittle poodles) is that the country no longer is even listening to the rantings of the left

    Sometimes Monty, your hatred is too much even for KiwiBlog:

    Monty (223) –2 Says:
    August 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
    [Deleted by DPF]
    (If I get demerits it will be worth it)
    [DPF: Yep 30 demerits. A human being is dead. Get some perspective]

    Renouncing such hatred really would be a good step for you Monty. But you’ll pardon me if for now I take your claims to be a hate free Monty with just a teeny grain of salt.
14. r0b 14

    4 November 2008 at 2:12 am

    My previous comment is in moderation so I can’t edit / fix the broken close italic tag at the end of the first paragraph.

    [Tane: Fixed, I think]
15. Carol 15

    4 November 2008 at 6:48 am

    Interesting that (like Helen) all the left have to fire is insults

    Hmmm…. so I just imagined all those hateful Helengrad, mysogynistic insults that have been launched by right-wingers against Clark?

    And Key was far from positive- he used a lot of negative slams against Labour and Clark in the debate last night
16. Bill 16

    4 November 2008 at 8:45 am

    Let’s just a moment suspend disbelief and consider John to be an honest chappie. And let’s go with the media’s talking arses and allow for a Nat led government.

    If John is being honest, John is going to get rolled ( like a regurgitated dead rat?) and the 90’s boys will let loose.

    At which point (allowing for UF’s moderating influence being ineffective), there are going to be a lot of very hacked off Key supporters…alongside the rest of the electorate.

    Last time democracy was shanghaied here, devastating policies rolled out so thick and fast that the resistance to what was coming down from on high was back footed and ultimately unsuccessful.

    Anyone given any thought to this time around?
17. Jackson 17

    4 November 2008 at 8:45 am

    On ‘The Pretender’ a couple of weeks back was an episode based on John Key taking a sightseeing jaunt to “the worst street in the country” and picking up a “native child, ” for cheap headline grabbing, while his little side trip to the South Auckland factory yesterday had the same synthetic feel to it. If its any consolation Jones and Inga will find mixing with the rellies a mite difficult once National gets busy with the lay-offs and the rip-offs, should they win Saturday.

    McCully, the useless parasite, has already started with his bread and circus games for the great unwashed. The radio talkback UFO sightings have started again; the propaganda against women and mothers has started again; soon we will see strange people putting on performances such as hanging large weights off their privates, gnomes and hairy people doing odd things. McCully is such a bad echo of the 1930s Third Reich.
18. Janet 18

    4 November 2008 at 9:02 am

    I agree with Bill. The right is not known for its collectivism and if (worst case) Key does manage to cobble a government together there will be so many individuals and business interests greedy for their dividend that they will devour each other in their rush for satiety. Meanwhile the left quietly regroups and unites and uses the best of collective wisdom to become a powerful government ready once again to rescue NZ.
19. higherstandard 19

    4 November 2008 at 9:05 am

    Jackson ………… what ?
20. Darien Fenton 20

    4 November 2008 at 9:16 am

    This was a sickening episode yesterday. Labour and Green MPs regularly attended the picket and personally contributed to the locked out workers. Never saw Key or any National MPs anywhere near there – and your video is a hideous reminder of the real attitudes of National MPs like Wayne Mapp .
21. DeeDub 21

    4 November 2008 at 9:47 am

    I loved the cynical “we want you to OWN the factory” line from Michael Jones. He was a fantastic openside, but telling fairy tales to a room full of your own people is nothing but bloody blindsiding them! In the real world, Jonsey, to use a trite rugby analogy, someone has to do the ‘hard yards’ and someone has to own the team…. Who’s going to make sure the people that DON’T own the factory are well looked after? National? I don’t thnk so. Not on their record and not with their current anti-worker policies.

    I’m all for ‘aspirational politics’ but FFS!!??!! And I bet those particular All Blacks were previously all big chested and proudly saying they’d prefer to keep politics out of sport? Hah!

    The sad thing is that Inga and Jonsey probably don’t even know what National’s record and policies on employment are . . . they’re only lending their support because they want to see the civil union & prostitute law reforms repealed.

    Disgraceful.
22. Janet 22

    4 November 2008 at 10:02 am

    And what about the Nat Party policies of opening up ACC to private providers, and not allowing union workers into the workplace. Both highly likely to negatively affect those workers.
23. Jackson 23

    4 November 2008 at 10:09 am

    Sorry higherstandard, if that post was too obscure for you. Murray McCully is an infamous propagandist who sits in his back room devising all sorts of hateful diversions for, in his own words, “the great unwashed”. Thats us – ordinary New Zealanders. The Nats and ACT, if you remember Brash’s infamous hate campaign against the left, were ‘the mainstream’, or, ‘tall poppies’ as they and their friends in the Business Round Table fondly like to refer to themselves. Meanwhile we, the ‘non-mainstream’ are also known as ‘pond life’ and ‘bog dwellers.’ This is the very reactionary, extreme right wing nonsense that this country invariably endures under certain National-ACT governments. Another example. Jenny Shipley began a campaign in about 1997 asking people to report their neighbours to “the authorities”- ‘The Dob In a Neighbour Campaign’ I think it was called, A campaign which hearkened back to Gestapo-type tactics of getting people to rat on each other. ( Most people dont realise it only took a couple of G. agents to run a big town… they simply encouraged people to become tale bearers. Every petty little spat and grudge became fodder for self-important little neighbourhood tyrants. Every pompous git in town had a list of vendettas to avenge.) Such campaigns are ‘a beginning’ but ultimately they will frighten people into silence, obedience and complicity with the most ghastly of rights abuses.
    Aside from UFO watching, other bread and circus diversions McCully is fond of promoting refers to rednecked, ignorant entertainment where society is a encouraged to laugh and jeer at the deformed, the different, the grotesque, the strange. The entertainment acts as a psychological empowerment for little people of limited intelligence as many ACT and Libertarian tyoes actually are. It also encourages a more generalised ‘them and us’ mentality and it is a step, if you like, which takes society in a certain direction. Underlying these twisted attitudes and games, is an inherent belief in Eugenics Theory. There is a lot more to all this that I do not have time for here but suffice to say, the left must always be ultra cautious – the left is always the real target, the real enemy of fascism.
24. higherstandard 24

    4 November 2008 at 10:26 am

    Jackson

    If you really want to see someone promoting an “us and them” mentality I suggest you look in the nearest mirror.

    The tags of right wing, left wing, fascism and communism are bandied around on the blogs in a rather bizarre fashion that bears no resemblance to the people or parties there used in the same sentence with.

    Labour and National are should not be linked to any of these terms and the people who use them in anything but jest are idiots.
25. Janet 25

    4 November 2008 at 10:27 am

    I agree with Jackson. The left and the vulnerable are the targets of such eugenic policies. Many people are not aware that hundreds of thousands of disabled people were also victims of the holocaust which was just the pinnacle of eugenic policies popular in most western countries, including NZ, during the early decades of last century. Many of the underlying attitudes still thrive in NZ, eg in the opposition by the right and bigoted to refugees, poor people etc
26. higherstandard 26

    4 November 2008 at 10:33 am

    Janet

    Let me clarify – are you suggesting a National led government would have “eugenic policies” if they were in power for the next three years.
27. Jackson 27

    4 November 2008 at 10:49 am

    I use the word “diversion” because that is what these policies are, they are diversions to distract society from what is real. The media becomes a mere vehicle to promulgate the diversions, hence the dreadful drivel we are subjected to from what once was intelligent analysis and rigorous intellectual discussion in “The Fourth Estate’. For John Key to have got away with the crap he spewed last night without being thoroughly castigated by the morning papers would have once been a shocking and shameful omission. This dumbing down of the media is no mere accidental by-product of a growth orientated society. It is a deliberately engineered manipulation driven by a corporate culture which seeks to or actually does, dominate and enslave us all to its ‘profit at all costs’ goals – a corporate state in which human beings are merely objects of productivity.
28. r0b 28

    4 November 2008 at 11:03 am

    If you really want to see someone promoting an “us and them’ mentality I suggest you look in the nearest mirror.

    Iwi / Kiwi

    National’s last campaign was entirely, nakedly and abjectly all about defining “us and them”.
29. Janet 29

    4 November 2008 at 11:06 am

    H/S Possibly. Depends whether any of their policies or laws they could theoretically pass are based on the premise that everyone is equal regardless of support needs, and has a right to have the state provide that extra support – or that people are not equal and therefore not entitled to state support.

    Areas of risk are around genetic technology including pre-birth, access to communication or disability support, building and transport regulation (eg access issues), immigration, education and health (who gets services, and on what grounds), even prisons and justice laws.

    These issues become controversial when you stop looking at them from a rights based perspective (which the left has) and see them as economic or of the superiority of one lot of people over another (which the right tends to).

    From time to time you hear right wing politicians talking about who has a right to ‘breed’, or that someone’s right to breed should be taken away. That’s an indication of deeper eugenic attitudes.
30. Jackson 30

    4 November 2008 at 11:08 am

    Higherstandard: What then was the point of Brash’s sinister ‘mainstream’ rhetoric, if not to marginalise sectors of society and what is the point of segregating, if not to Jew bash? Helen Clark got the shock of her life when Brash claimed in a leaders debate that she was not ‘ mainstream.’ If not mainstream, then what stream? Even more importantly, if not mainstream, what next for those who are considered minor stream? Ok, so Key is on a charm offensive recognising perhaps that the average KIwi is more on to it , then dumbass McCully/ Roger Douglas et al but its only a front. He has the corporatista brand firmly planted on his forehead and will carry out corporate state aims and ideals with alacrity, as will his minions.
31. randal 31

    4 November 2008 at 12:46 pm

    What I find incredible is the amount of barefaced lies Keys tells about everything.
    He says black is white and white is black as a matter of course
    his campaign has been about lying on every position from the get go and the absolute cynicism of visiting the factory where his boss mates would not give a wage increase is worthy of adolf himself in the criminally obscene stakes
32. Janet 32

    4 November 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Perhaps it’s a Nat thing. I’ve just got a letter from Stephen Franks claiming to lead his law firm. That’s just not true.
    And it’s ungrammatical and full of typos.
33. Ben R 33

    4 November 2008 at 2:34 pm

    “Perhaps it’s a Nat thing. I’ve just got a letter from Stephen Franks claiming to lead his law firm. That’s just not true.
    And it’s ungrammatical and full of typos”

    Doesn’t it say that he was Chairman of Chapman Tripp? I don’t think it says he is currently chair, unless you got something different to me.
34. Ben R 34

    4 November 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Jackson & Randal, I refer you to Godwin’s law again.
35. Ben R 35

    4 November 2008 at 2:46 pm

    “From time to time you hear right wing politicians talking about who has a right to ?breed?, or that someone?s right to breed should be taken away. That?s an indication of deeper eugenic attitudes.”

    Janet, you should chat to some family lawyers or social workers – some of them might mention to you that certain clients definitely should not be allowed to have children.

    Whether the state should have the coercive power to prevent someone having children is another issue & I doubt many people in a liberal democracy would support that. If anything most western countries have dysgenic trends as the more educated women tend to have fewer children. For instance, in Australia I think only 1/3 of women with post graduate degrees have children.
36. higherstandard 36

    4 November 2008 at 2:55 pm

    r0b

    Is your defence whenever you see people who favour Labour or the Greens spouting absolute rubbish to go on the attack along the lines of … but Brash…but the Exclusive Brethren etc.

    Spouting mindless drivel is the same whatever side of the political spectrum one comes from.

    To accuse National of being Nazi’s and promoting policies of eugenics is as stupid as suggesting Labour of the same thing , at times it makes me wonder what planet some of these people are living on to subscribe to such an odd view of the world.
37. r0b 37

    4 November 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Is your defence whenever you see people who favour Labour or the Greens spouting absolute rubbish to go on the attack along the lines of but Brash but the Exclusive Brethren etc.

    In truth HS I handn’t really following the context of this thread when replied to you above. It was a reflexive response to a pet peeve of mine, righties accusing the left of being “divisive”, after National’s quintessentially divisive 2005 Iwi / Kiwi campaign.
38. higherstandard 38

    4 November 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Fair enough,

    I’ll take it as read that we’re in agreement that there be nutters in both camps at times.
39. r0b 39

    4 November 2008 at 6:19 pm

    I’ll take it as read that we’re in agreement that there be nutters in both camps at times.

    Of course (not saying any particular participant in this thread is or isn’t a nutter, but as a general rule they exist!).
40. higherstandard 40

    4 November 2008 at 6:20 pm

    And come out in greater numbers during election time methinks !
41. Jeannie 41

    5 November 2008 at 12:54 am

    “To accuse National of being Nazi’s and promoting policies of eugenics..”

    I have not read anything in this thread which accuses National of being Nazis or promoting the policies of eugenics. The National Party in alliance with ACT did take a sharp turn right which had sinister overtones. Fascism as I understand it, takes a while to bed in. Imagine if Hitler had said to the German people in the early 30s that he intended to murder and enslave dozens of millions of people. He would have thrown into the nearest asylum. These things do take time but first off a right wing party has to gain a monopoly over the media, which they did in Germany and have done here. As has been pointed out repeatedly by very intelligent, thoughtful people on this site, National can virtually tell any lie, say anything about anyone, character assassinate at will, fail to provide detail on every policy yet the news media invariably acts as their uncritical cheerleaders.

    As for Godwin’s Law. who on the left wants to shut this debate down? It is in our own best interest to open it up. Address the arguments one by one if you will, but forget the fallacies, and the repressive gag laws.
42. Ben R 42

    5 November 2008 at 12:06 pm

    “The National Party in alliance with ACT did take a sharp turn right which had sinister overtones.”

    So Jeannie, you feel that any party that is centre right must invariably end up at the same point the Nazis did? By that logic wouldn’t a centre left party be irretrievably pulled towards the policies of Stalin & dekulakisation?
43. Swampy 43

    5 November 2008 at 10:12 pm

    The Progressive dispute was in no small measure due to a law change that Labour put through to make it easier for their union friends to force through MECA agreements and a large part of the industrial action was about the union’s demand for a MECA.

    Matt McCarten hit the nail on the head when he torpedoed merger talks between his UNITE union, the SWFU and EPMU, pointing out that the latter pair levy much higher fees on their members than UNITE which only charges a basic fee. The fact that the large unions have assets in the millions of dollars for the most part comes down to the hundreds of dollars in fees that are levied on their members. These charges go far beyond what is needed to run the union or pay for collective negotiations. In other words these unions are basically seeking to enrich themselves at the expense of their members. All those funds out there for Labour or other political parties to get help at the election.
44. Swampy 44

    5 November 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Bill
    “If John is being honest, John is going to get rolled ( like a regurgitated dead rat?) and the 90’s boys will let loose.”

    OK let’s apply your paradigm to Labour and suggest Helen CLark is the front person for a bunch of hard line socialists.

    Either has about as much credibility as the other.

    The fact is that Ruth Richardson’s policies were so popular that National was running in the 20s in the polls mid-term after the 1990 election and she was sacked after the 93 election.

    Does anyone really believe such nonsense?
45. Swampy 45

    5 November 2008 at 10:20 pm

    RedBack
    November 4, 2008 at 1:54 am

    “Monty the fact that you are whinging about having to part with $100k in tax this year tells us that you are worth a bob or two in the first place. I have no problem with folk who do well in life financially. Well done to you. My problem is with those who have gone through a state education system used state hospitals and drive their 4×4’s on state roads then as soon as the cash starts rolling in for them they moan about having to put back into that same state system. And therein lies the massive hypocritical hole in the neo con argument of the wealthy paying less taxes. ”

    It is not the question of tax, it is the question of
    (a) the left’s claim that they have the guaranteed right to take those taxes and spend them
    (b) what they actually spend them on
    (c) the rapacious demands for more and more tax and
    (d) the ever increasing amounts of tax taken and spent on making the government bigger and more intrusive.
46. Swampy 46

    5 November 2008 at 10:26 pm

    “Darien Fenton
    November 4, 2008 at 9:16 am

    This was a sickening episode yesterday. Labour and Green MPs regularly attended the picket and personally contributed to the locked out workers.”

    The Progressives dispute and a whole lot of similar disputes all happened just after Labour (abetted by the Greens) passed laws giving unions a stronger negotiating position for Meca agreements. Then the Progressives dispute came about and the union’s key demand was for the company to agree to join a Meca.

    The unions are not poor. They turn over millions of dollars a year of which a large part is fees of hundreds of dollars per member in some cases which goes far above what is needed for industrial relations negotiations.

    The industrial disputes like Progressives are a vested interest for unions which are looking for more industrial power, more members and basically more money flowing into their coffers.

    Except for Matt McCarten who has highlighted this very issue in rejecting merger proposals with SWFU/EPMU.
47. Chris G 47

    5 November 2008 at 10:38 pm

    “The unions are not poor. They turn over millions of dollars a year of which a large part is fees of hundreds of dollars per member in some cases which goes far above what is needed for industrial relations negotiations.”

    Someone has been reading DPF/waaahleoil

    “The industrial disputes like Progressives are a vested interest for unions which are looking for more industrial power, more members and basically more money flowing into their coffers.”

    What a conspiracy theorist you are! No doubt you’ve talked to lots of union members? Instead I think your a lifelong non-union member launching a tirade of speculation.

    Apparently, according to Swampy, Unions dont actually go about industrial disputes for the benefit of the workers, they do it cos they want to make money!

    Get real, no one believes that you twit.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS