Leadership and loyalty

55 comments on “Leadership and loyalty ”

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1. tracey 1

   31 March 2015 at 8:02 am

   I wonder how many of Key’s troops are still prepared to die in battle for him?

   Key comes from a background where loyalty is always self serving and the people disposable. Only ever as good as the money they make for the directors/partners…

   This kind of behaviour can make people scared to NOT toe the line for fear of upsetting the leader and not getting their personal baubles. In time it can make some say “fuck it, I have shut up, toed the line, fawned and fetched and for what? I have nothing left to lose and it would be good to see this fucker squirm”
   • saveNZ 1.1

     31 March 2015 at 8:18 am

     @tracey
     +100

     In particular…

     Key comes from a background where loyalty is always self serving and the people disposable. Only ever as good as the money they make for the directors/partners…

     Key also thinks our country is disposable. Only good while he asset strips it, and then off to International Democrat Union where he is chair, and more ultra right wing fantasy proposals to inflict, like some plague, on the populous.
     • tracey 1.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 8:31 am

       s’cuse my language.

       being Pm is an extension of his career ambitions. a chance to be on th ebog stage, meet some celebs and do some favours for those he thinks can help him later, collect a knighthood and move on.
       • Karen 1.1.1.1

         31 March 2015 at 8:40 am

         +1 Tracey
         His nickname “the smiling assassin” suits him very well. Now that he has sold off NZ’s assets to his rich mates and met all the celebs he wants to, he just needs to sign the TPPA and he will be off to whatever he has been promised. If it looks like the TPPA is going to be delayed he might go sooner (let’s hope).
         • tracey 1.1.1.1.1

           31 March 2015 at 8:45 am

           As important, if not more important than RMA, imo…

           BUT it doesn’t have to go to Parliament (unlike RMA proposals) and Key knows that. Numbers don’t matter as long as others sign, we will sign. For the record NZF is anti aspects of the TPP including the process for “deciding” conflicts.

           http://nzfirst.org.nz/news/new-zealand-first-bill-more-important-ever
         • Bearded Git 1.1.1.1.2

           31 March 2015 at 10:21 am

           @Karen Agree with you on Key. This from the Dom Post editorial yesterday:

           “The by-election was a triumph for Peters, a politician almost as gifted as Key”

           They have to be joking surely? Key is a money-man to the core. No policy ideas, no “vision-thing”, no mana. His strengths are listening well to the advice he is given and smiling and waving.
         • Bearded Git 1.1.1.1.3

           31 March 2015 at 10:51 am

           @Karen Not sure if comparison between the two can be made.

           The way National/ACT intend to change the RMA will result in widespread degradation of NZ’s best landscapes. TPPA is likely to result in a world run by corporate behemoths. Both awful in their own way.
           • Karen 1.1.1.1.3.1

             31 March 2015 at 11:09 am

             The TPPA will be even more disastrous for the environment. Do you really think those big corporations will make any allowance for environmental protection?
             • Karen …

               31 March 2015 at 2:19 pm

               On the topic of the TPPA and the environment this article from the Sierra Club is worth a read
               http://content.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2015/03/leaked-text-confirms-trade-deal-puts-polluters-people
       • Patrick 1.1.1.2

         31 March 2015 at 10:29 am

         Yes the knighthood is key (no pun intended) I think.
       • Once was Tim 1.1.1.3

         31 March 2015 at 12:58 pm

         +1 …….. and Mex is a D-d-d-d-d J ……… YES! a DEEE JAY
         ……. next

         He knows nothing else, and given that he hasn’t the power or intelligence for critical thought (rather snide animal cunning), not much will change until a few sharper knives in the draw ekshullly wake up and realise just how much they’ve been used and abused in the name of creating an oikun and a celeb (that goes by the name of ‘hashtag’ “Team Key”).

         We’re all worried about Labour being a fucked unit ….. When you look at National in any depth, you find the potential for REAL fucking turmoil.
2. Draco T Bastard 2

   31 March 2015 at 8:06 am

   A leader expects loyalty

   No they don’t, they earn it.
   • weka 2.1

     31 March 2015 at 10:57 am

     which might go some way to explain why Little is succeeding where others have failed before him.
   • McFlock 2.2

     31 March 2015 at 10:59 am

     true.
     a tosser expects loyalty while showing none.
   • Once was Tim 2.3

     31 March 2015 at 1:16 pm

     Well that’s just the difference eh? Draco. Masters of the Universe EXPECT it. Others earn it. I suspect many Natzis when they look back in time will come to realise that has been their fundamental problem. It won;t happen over night, but it WILL happen – just like those pesky split ends.
     Meantime ….. some of the more (once-upon-time) reasonable amongst them get bitterer and bitterer.
     Someone throw that Krus Finlayson a bone will ya! He’s becoming a right ole bitch!
     And Muff Mc Kully …. I see his bit on the side switched sides while the getting was good (hasn’t done much for her journalistic integrity though – but I ‘spose there’s always a Ralston to fall back on

     Like grandma used to say: “Get yourself a trade! ….. It’s always something to fall back on”
     ….. haven’t they just!
3. mary_a 3

   31 March 2015 at 8:12 am

   Well this behaviour from Key is hardly alien to him is it? Use, abuse and dump!

   Loyalty does not even register with Key.

   Not a Natsy supporter at all and may I be struck dead should I ever turn to the blue side, but I did feel quite sorry for Mark Osborne on Saturday night, alone and left to his own devices. Very bad look on Key’s behalf.
   • tracey 3.1

     31 March 2015 at 8:18 am

     Osborne knew the nest of vipers he wanted to play with, and I feel sorry for him only insofar as he thought a nest of vipers only has an upside for him personally.

     He has spoken more since he lost. Speaks volumes about the Nats and Osborne’s personal level of courage. He was happy to be used when he thought it would advance his ambitions.
     • mary_a 3.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 1:00 pm

       @ tracey (3.1) – Nest of vipers – you got that one right on. Absolutely spot on comment there.
4. toad 4

   31 March 2015 at 8:13 am

   John Key flew off to the cricket early to avoid association with Osborne’s defeat. Meanwhile, Tony Abbott flew off to Singapore to avoid getting booed at the cricket.

   That’s Tories for you.
   • miravox 4.1

     31 March 2015 at 8:35 am

     Anyone know if Crosby or Textor (or business people looking for a deal worked out on the back of a serviette) were also at the cricket?
     • tracey 4.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 8:38 am

       funny… Hoots and Farrar have hoed into the campaign up North… queuing up to take over?
       • RJL 4.1.1.1

         31 March 2015 at 12:52 pm

         Note that on election night DPF claimed to be too busy on a dinner date and then going to a play to be able to post comments on the Northland results. But, you can bet that if DPF’s polling looked better he would have been furiously blogging into the night.

         DPF abandoned Osborne just like Key.
5. ScottGN 5

   31 March 2015 at 8:26 am

   I also couldn’t help but feel a smidgen of sympathy for Osborne as the chickens started to come home to roost. Don’t worry though I soon got over it! And abandoned to face the media on the Sunday he wasn’t that much of a munter. Just another indication of the massive panic in National’s ranks.
   And a friend in Auckland reminded me of the dreadful behaviour of Maggie Barry at that candidate’s meeting where she did her best to talk over Osborne and berated anyone who dared to question the party line.
   • tracey 5.1

     31 March 2015 at 8:32 am

     Scott & Mary

     Will we soon hear that this was the plan all along… treat the candidate like scum, and garner public sympathy for him so he wins easily in 2017? 😉

     To my knowledge Osborne hasn’t mentioned how he has been treated. I suspect in Northland he would gain alot of mana if he did.
     • Lanthanide 5.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 11:54 am

       He’s not going to get another chance in the spotlight.
       • mary_a 5.1.1.1

         31 March 2015 at 1:04 pm

         @ Lanthanide (5.1.1) – Was Osborne in the spotlight? Well tickle me pink!

         And here’s me thinking it was Steven (Lord Haw Haw) Joyce’s show! Now I wonder what made me come to that conclusion?
         • Lanthanide 5.1.1.1.1

           31 March 2015 at 1:20 pm

           Steven was lurking in the shadows pulling the strings of his marionette, not in the glare of the spotlight.
   • Lanthanide 5.2

     31 March 2015 at 11:53 am

     ” And abandoned to face the media on the Sunday he wasn’t that much of a munter.”

     “… oh no, not at all!…”
6. Sacha 6

   31 March 2015 at 8:36 am

   You have to wonder how the guy was raised when you see his lack of character. What an embarrassment.
   • tracey 6.1

     31 March 2015 at 8:47 am

     OR

     You have to wonder how the guy was raised (and what he was promised) to allow himself to be publicly used and ridiculed. What an embarrassment.

     Is this what all the Nat List MP’s are like who neevr have to speak to get in? In fact is it what all parties List MP’s are like?

     Green List MPs have to be public cos they all stand in an electorate and campaign but what about all those MPs who don’t campaign?… lapdogs all?
     • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 12:26 pm

       Did Bill English ever campaign in his Southland electorate?

       It’s all very well to say that list MPs don’t have to campaign except for that most of them actually do. And considering National’s campaigning in Northland I think that they figured that they wouldn’t have to campaign there at all.
     • mary_a 6.1.2

       31 March 2015 at 1:11 pm

       @ tracey (6.1) –

       OR

       He knew something the Natsies wouldn’t want to be made public which could be embarrassing for dear leader should it come out! The reason for minder Joyce’s presence perhaps?
       • Clemgeopin 6.1.2.1

         31 March 2015 at 10:39 pm

         +1
         The insider who knew too much!

         …..Played ignorant anyway!
   • saveNZ 6.2

     31 March 2015 at 8:52 am

     Maybe after being close up and personal with the Nats, Osbourne will vote NZ First or Labour next time:)

     His idol Key is just a user.

     The other point, is that Key has now muddied the ‘National’ brand. Even conservative people are so disillusioned with what Key has done to the country that the mythical ‘National’ brand is diluted and tainted.
7. Penny Bright 7

   31 March 2015 at 9:16 am

   Don’t forget that Mark Osborne was Mike Sabin’s electorate treasurer.

   In my view, given the significant disquiet within the Northland electorate over the lack of transparency regarding the sudden resignation of Mike Sabin’s resignation for ‘personal reasons’ – doesn’t it strike you as odd that National didn’t put some distance between their former (disgraced?) MP and their new National candidate?

   Why did National pick a new candidate, Mark Osborne, who was arguably so close to Mike Sabin?

   Arrogance – or ‘insurance’ ?

   Just asking …..

   Penny Bright
   • Melanie Scott 7.1

     1 April 2015 at 10:05 am

     Just a reminder, police policy since the year dot is to alert the ‘powers that be’ of any upcoming criminal action involving an MP, as part of the ‘no surprises’ protocol.
8. Patrick 8

   31 March 2015 at 10:27 am

   Key went up North, and National lost.
   Key went to Melbourne, and we lost.
   Is there a pattern starting………..
   • whateva next? 8.1

     31 March 2015 at 10:34 am

     Bit like Abbott and Dotcom eh? reverse Midas touch.
9. infused 9

   31 March 2015 at 10:54 am

   One is a prime minister, the other is in opposition. Little has all the time in the world.
   • McFlock 9.1

     31 March 2015 at 11:13 am

     And yet, given the same time constraints, Key turned up to one while Little turned up to both. Time management is an important skill for leaders 🙂

     BTW, I hope your young employee hasn’t done anything rash career-wise, and is taking some time to reconsider his decision.
     • infused 9.1.1

       31 March 2015 at 7:34 pm

       Nup, left. Was going to post an update on it. Silly.
       • McFlock 9.1.1.1

         31 March 2015 at 8:55 pm

         Oh well, we all have to walk our own path, I guess.
   • Karen 9.2

     31 March 2015 at 11:34 am

     And as Prime Minister Key should have been at Lee Kwan Yew’s funeral and not at the cricket. The man doesn’t know how to behave decently.
     • alwyn 9.2.1

       31 March 2015 at 3:13 pm

       Gosh, this was the web site where people ranted on interminably about how we shouldn’t have flown the NZ flag at half-mast when the Saudi Arabian King died because people didn’t approve of that countries policies?

       Now some people are unhappy because John Key didn’t attend the funeral of a former leader of Singapore.
       Why don’t you look at this from “No Right Turn”.
       http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2015/03/no-freedom-of-speech-in-singapore.html
       Singapore under Lee Kwan Yew, and continuing under his son who is the current PM, is anything but a democracy to be admired.

       Could it be that you are only complaining about things to be on the opposite side to our Government?
       Are there people here who, like the NZ Labour Party, only decide their policy position on the basis that whatever John Key says, they will say the opposite?
       This is the approach that says “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”, and that “The friend of my enemy is my enemy”.
       • Karen 9.2.1.1

         31 March 2015 at 4:30 pm

         I didn’t say Lee Kwan Yew was someone I admire. I am fully aware of Singapore’s poor human right’s record (which is a lot better than Saudi Arabia’s if doing a comparison).

         However, trade with Asia is important to NZ’s economy and choosing a cricket match over attendance at a state funeral for an important ex leader is bound to be seen as insulting. Presumably that is why Abbott chose the funeral over the cricket. Key was just looking for a photo opportunity.
         • alwyn 9.2.1.1.1

           31 March 2015 at 5:40 pm

           Why on earth should they be upset, because the second ranking New Zealander didn’t go to the funeral?
           We sent the Governor General who outranks the PM in the diplomatic pecking order.

           As far as trade goes our exports to Singapore and Saudi Arabia are quite similar. About $660m to Singapore and around $560m to Saudi Arabia.
           Imports from Singapore are quite a lot more but that is likely to make Singapore more nervous about trade falling off with us rather than us having to worry.
           I also suspect that a lot of oil imports will be recorded as coming from Singapore as there are major refineries there which supply us, rather than their original country of production.

           We are flying the New Zealand flag at half-mast for LKY which is all we did for Saudi Arabia. The King was of course the head of state whereas LKY was only a long retired (25 years after being PM) politician who had never even been the head of state.
           • Sacha 9.2.1.1.1.1

             1 April 2015 at 7:59 am

             Yeah I don’t think Key was pondering any of this stuff when he decided he’d rather be photographed with sporting heroes and his son than alone at a funeral with world leaders.
10. Hateatea 10

    31 March 2015 at 11:18 am

    There is something about the mantra that we should be unquestionably loyal to our ‘leader’ that I have always found troubling. I think it is the assumption that a leader always knows the correct thing to do in any set of circumstances, that they are all knowing, all wise and leading the followers to a better place.

    Perhaps it is that I grew up in the aftermath of WW2 and lived through the Korean Campaign, then the Malaysian, Vietnam and on and on that I question the kind of blind obedience that allowed some seriously flawed individuals to perpetrate horrendous acts, supposedly in the name of the citizenry.

    That said, Key not going to Northland for Saturday evenings result seems typical of a person who acts as if his role as just the front person for the brand. Is this true leadership? Not to me, and it is becoming apparent, not to many others.

    The question for the various parties to the left of NACT is whether one charismatic leader is what we need or whether it is that we need the kind of practical, down to earth leaders who will work with one another to achieve the displacement of the NACTS as government with a coalition that is willing and able to work collaberatively for the betterment of ALL the people of Aotearoa New Zealand, not just the rich, nor just for the ‘workers’.

    The people who will earn my vote and my respect in the future will be those who see that we all need to be loyal to one another, and to this beautiful corner of the world. They will inspire loyalty by demonstrating loyalty, humility and collegiality themselves.

    Well, a person can dream, can’t they?
11. adam 11

    31 March 2015 at 1:31 pm

    I’ve said it before – how many people can Key throw under the bus, before the backbenchers start to revolt?
12. Stephanie Rodgers 12

    31 March 2015 at 4:10 pm

    I found it interesting that Gower, Owen and Garner mentioned the “don’t hug a corpse” idea – i.e. it’s bad for your political image to be associated with obvious failure.

    This makes Key’s absence understandable, but also raises an interesting question: the most senior Minister visible during Osborne’s TV appearances was Paula Bennett. (If I recall correctly, Joyce was also there, but probably standing on the other side of the camera.)

    Does Bennett lack the political instincts of the PM, or was she pressured to be the face of the administration – and thus be the one hugging the corpse? Not that it harmed her chances, according to iPredict:
    https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=NATLEAD.BENNETT
    • Karen 12.1

      31 March 2015 at 4:32 pm

      Maybe she has better political instincts. She was the only cabinet minister to forgo the ministerial car when supporting Osborne.
      • North 12.1.1

        31 March 2015 at 8:32 pm

        I’m not over my euphoria yet but yes…….Paula. She bought a house on a taxpayer funded benefit. Reckon she fancies she’ll buy (Vogel) house on a taxpayer funded benefit as well !

        I mean, in the onetime Tory ethos she’s done well has Paula……
13. Dorothy Bulling 13

    31 March 2015 at 5:12 pm

    When English came to a campaign in Otautau, rural Southland, he came accompanied by mother who sat in the front row and asked patsy questions. This campaign meeting had been organised by a service club in the community.
    • McFlock 13.1

      31 March 2015 at 5:21 pm

      the current clutha-southland mp apparently used dad.
14. North 14

    31 March 2015 at 8:26 pm

    RunFromTheCorpseKey (thanks Garner/Gower), then JinxOnTheBlackCapsKey……Oh Dear God !!!!!! How much more damage can ThisPonceKey do in his quest for celebrity ????? And I’ll betya there are heaps and heaps and heaps of Tories (and cricket fans) thinking exactly the same. Will ask around in the lifestyle blocks of Pakuranga North where presently I find my pillow.

    It’s algud…….more grist for the mill of stolen golden slippers falling from shifty clay feet. Sooner or later, and there’s the promise of sooner, one good rain……..

    Kia Ora Cuz’ Fizzy !

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