Local Government election results

Written By: - Date published: 1:52 pm, October 8th, 2022 - 256 comments
Categories: elections, local body elections, local government - Tags:

Expect results this afternoon. According to The Spinoff, anywhere between 1pm and 3pm.

Live feeds,

The Spinoff

RadioNZ

Stuff

Newshub

1News

 

Spinoff,

Nobby Clark, formerly deputy mayor of Invercargill, has won the mayoralty with 6,537 votes in the progress results with about 90% counted. Broadcaster Marcus Lush is second with 3,785 votes.

…

Hutt City’s incumbent mayor, Campbell Barry, is on the brink of victory. The margin is far from overwhelming, but with 90% counted a lead of more than 1,000 is enough to call it: the Labour candidate, elected to the mayoralty in 2019 at the age of 31, will be back for another term.

Stuff,

Wayne Brown has claimed victory over Efeso Collins, with Brown saying the margin is 144,000 votes to him, versus 86,000 for Collins.

…

With 90% of the vote counted in Carterton, Ron Mark (2137 votes) leads incumbent Greg Lang (1714 votes). Voter turnout was 54%. Mark is a former defence minister, and former mayor of the town.

 

https://twitter.com/MissWhanau/status/1578565687332995074

https://twitter.com/comingupcharlie/status/1578600184485130240

https://twitter.com/comingupcharlie/status/1578593250101039110

256 comments on “Local Government election results ”

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  1. alwyn 1
    8 October 2022 at 2:33 pm

    Poor old Tim Shadbolt in Invercargill. What a shame that he didn't accept that he could no longer do the job and that he didn't step down gracefully.

    He was a very good Mayor for the City for a long time. Unfortunately he simply couldn't accept that it was time to go.

    • tsmithfield 1.1
      8 October 2022 at 5:01 pm

      To be fair, I did hear him on one of the news channels commenting that he didn't think he would win this time. But, yeah, sometimes people need to know its time to quit.

  2. Sanctuary 2
    8 October 2022 at 2:51 pm

    What a shame for Efeso Collins. I guess boomers who vote prefer white boomers. Aucklanders, lock yourselves in for three wasted years of a mayor waging war on his own organisation and an intensification of the culture wars.

    • Herodotus 2.1
      8 October 2022 at 4:50 pm

      Great to hear such a well researched comment "I guess boomers who vote prefer white boomers." Where is your evidence of voting ?? NONE !!!!

      Perhaps it has been the previous 2 Labour mayors who have left a legacy that any Labour endorsed candidate was tainted with ??

    • Sir Henry Morgan 2.2
      8 October 2022 at 5:11 pm

      [deleted]

      [read the site Policy about what is acceptable debate here. We want robust debate, not a reactionary free for all. If I see comments like the three you just made again, I will permanently ban you. – weka]

    • Ghostwhowalksnz 2.3
      8 October 2022 at 5:16 pm

      There is in NZ 1.3mill people over 50 but only 820,000 that are 20-39 age groups

      Even if you dont take into account the likelyhood of voting in council elections, unless you have policies that are inclusive of all age groups , especially over 50 its a waste of time to stand in for Mayor.

      As for culture wars , Brown himself says hes 'very very' socially liberal, compared to the more 'social conservative' Collins

    • higherstandard 2.4
      8 October 2022 at 6:07 pm

      🙄

    • Mike 2.5
      8 October 2022 at 11:30 pm

      When the left lose they usually revert to racial slurs and it will only intensify as they implode towards 2023

      • weka 2.5.1
        9 October 2022 at 8:53 am

        This is a labour movement aligned blog, so there are a lot of left wing people here. The site exists to put up posts that interest the authors and to provide a space for robust debate. We expect people to bring arguments to the table, to be able to explain their thinking. It’s unlikely that someone slagging off the left or left wing parties will last very long. Please read the site Policy and have a think about how you want to engage. It’s good to read comments for a while to get a sense of how things work here.

        .https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/

  3. kat 3
    8 October 2022 at 3:00 pm

    Wayne Brown…..new mayor for Auckland..

    Nick Smith…….new mayor for Nelson….

    At this rate David Seymour could be PM next year….

    • Ghostwhowalksnz 3.1
      8 October 2022 at 5:21 pm

      Hes not old enough , Brown and Smith are over 50

      • kat 3.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 5:29 pm

        Neither is the current PM……….over 50

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 3.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 6:10 pm

          Hes said 'based on Brown and Smith' one is over 70 the other nearly 60.

          • kat 3.1.1.1.1
            8 October 2022 at 6:16 pm

            Who is "hes said"…….and where was it said…if "hes said" it…..

            My comment was more about a possible trend towards vacancy between the ears than age…..

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 October 2022 at 6:29 pm

              Seymour is very smart, but then so was Rodney Hide and hes gone down the rabbit holes to be one of the puppeters of Voices for Freedom.

              • kat …
                8 October 2022 at 6:50 pm

                I don't regard David Seymour as 'smart' …..more a smug wee puppet that has gotten too big for his marionette masters strings……..

                • Cricklewood …
                  8 October 2022 at 7:02 pm

                  Oh, make no mistake Seymour is incredibly smart. Dont take him lightly.

                  • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                    8 October 2022 at 7:46 pm

                    Yet hes a 'party cadre' background . The right like their party leaders to be have 'real world experience' and even better owned and run companies. The donors especially like to give to people just like themselves

                    Seymour did 9 months as a graduate electrical engineer in his fathers business working on luxury yatcts, then it was on to a career as a policy analyst and party apparatchik.

                    At some stage he will be like Hide and be ousted

                    • Mike …
                      8 October 2022 at 11:36 pm

                      9 months ‘actually working’ is 9 months more than almost all of the labour ministers real world experience put together

                      *f&c shops not included but could come in handy

                  • kat …
                    8 October 2022 at 8:08 pm

                    Ok, very "smart" at ultimately becoming ousted……and I do take him lightly, its his puppet master(s) I take seriously….

  4. Anne 4
    8 October 2022 at 3:21 pm

    'Racism' is alive and doing well in Auckland.

    Ashamed to say Efeso Collins was effectively driven out of the electorate I live in when he visited a few weeks back. I was reliably informed by someone that he was subjected to racist taunts mainly from white males. I understand the favourite expression was "bloody Bunga" and he was told to go back to Samoa because he wasn't wanted here.

    • X Socialist 4.1
      8 October 2022 at 3:39 pm

      The term is ''boonga.'' Not only are some results an indication of a long predicted white backlash, they are also a portent of defeat Labour will experience at the next general election. Labour can claw back votes by dropping legislation such as 3 Waters. But I doubt it's in their DNA to do so.

      • Shanreagh 4.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 4:11 pm

        Goodness how bitter.

        Hopefully we can take heart from the Wellington results, where we have a female, young and Maori? Pasifika Mayor and where we had a a male, youngish and Maori standing as well.

        Come into the real world Auckland…calling, calling, calling…….

        Labour has work to do but I would be really sad if the racial backlash is this strong.

        • X Socialist 4.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 4:31 pm

          You forgot Rotorua. I would hazard a guess having Maori in positions of power during such contentious times is not a good thing? They will only attract racism during what is shaping to be a very nasty election. Yes, I am bitter. I don't think Labour has read the tea leaves very well and the country is suffering. This will be the first election I won't be casting a vote in. The older i get, the less i like politics.

          • Shanreagh 4.1.1.1.1
            8 October 2022 at 4:33 pm

            I am pleased that Tania Tapsell got in as Mayor for Rotorua…..as I said below. She should have been the Nats candidate for Tauranga in my view.

            In my Ward, Southern, in Wellington we have got
            Nureddin Abdurahman (Lab) as a new Councillor and hopefully Laurie Foon (Green) be back in again.

          • Patricia Bremner 4.1.1.1.2
            9 October 2022 at 11:39 am

            X Socialist, look around the World.

            All Leaders and Governments get defeated at some point. Reporting name calling is not racism. The nastiness is not coming from Labour. Expressed disappointment is natural.

            Sadly, so many appear to have gone down rabbit holes. The two VFF people, one in Otago and one in Taupo may benefit from "Real world experience " of political life. They won't have done a ten year apprenticeship in politics first though, and possibly think it is "easy".

            Tania Tapsell is to be congratulated. Her choice of Sandra Kai Fong as Deputy is also pleasing. Rotorua has a diverse population, and has produced some great women, like Hinemoa Guide Rangi Jean Batton and Valerie Adams to name a few.

            I see a definite swing away from the left. in spite of good management. Though that result may have been exacerbated by the low turnout.

            Once again, well done Robert Guyton. I hope there are others like you to keep asking the hard questions.

        • Cricklewood 4.1.1.2
          8 October 2022 at 4:50 pm

          Think it's more down to what is a pretty big swing to the right over most of the country… perhaps its Wellington not in the 'real world'…

          • Shanreagh 4.1.1.2.1
            8 October 2022 at 5:11 pm

            I'd rather be not in the 'real world' if the 'real world' means having to accept a swing to the right to be frank.

            Perfectly happy with a Green mayor, and Labour (Abdurahman) and Green (Foon) ward councillors

          • alwyn 4.1.1.2.2
            8 October 2022 at 6:57 pm

            Well the DomPost doesn't live in the real world. As far as this campaign goes they treated it as if there were only 3 candidates. That was Eagle, Whanau and Foster. They would have left Foster out of the story if they could have.

            The best candidate there was was Ray Chung. Even with the way they left him out of the story, and all the debates they ran, he came third and beat the Labour Party hack Paul Eagle in the process.

            Poor old Wellington. Stuck with someone whose only claim to fame is that she won Lotto.

            Oh well the DomPost won't be able to help her for very long. Even with their cut of the handouts to Woke papers the paper will be broke and out of business within a year I would say.

            • lurgee 4.1.1.2.2.1
              9 October 2022 at 5:13 am

              Since when was a 'claim to fame' a requirement for being a politician in Aotearoa? You're writing off her family activist history, her education and years of political work as irrelevant to her success. That's such a diminishing stance for you to take.

        • mikesh 4.1.1.3
          8 October 2022 at 5:00 pm

          So. The cat wins the Wellington mayoralty. Wonderful.

      • Anne 4.1.2
        8 October 2022 at 6:14 pm

        Bunga and Boonga are racial slurs slurs for people of South Pacific origin.

        http://craccum.co.nz/lifestyle/they-call-me-a-bunga/

    • Sanctuary 4.2
      8 October 2022 at 4:00 pm

      There will be a lot of finger pointing over this. An election process effectively rigged in favour of postal voting boomers needs to be addressed. Labour needs a good long look in the mirror as well. Sure, Collins ran a lackadaisical campaign. But it was obvious that when Labour didn't get it's preferred identity candidate – Richard Hills – they barely tried to get Collins elected. Jacinda Arderns 11th hour, luke warm "endorsement" should have the left seething. As it us, Auckland has now elected a large number of well past their use by date 70 something conservative white people who want to live in the 1980s again. Wayne Brown is the very embodiment of the boomer war on reality.

      • swordfish 4.2.1
        8 October 2022 at 4:24 pm

        As it us, …

        There's those horrendous Kiwi flat vowels again.

        Bugger ut, I’m off to gut some fush & chups.

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 4.2.2
        8 October 2022 at 5:29 pm

        Postal voting is seen elsewhere as getting more minorities out to vote….as against standing in line on election da

        more lower paid work on Saturdays as well- Do You ?

        The postal voting forms should however have an online return option. You use the code numbers to access a council voting platform via phone-tablet-desktop and choose the candidates you wish to vote for .

        As a check on the posted form voters , put in their date of birth which is known to Electoral commision but not printed on voting form

        • weka 4.2.2.1
          9 October 2022 at 8:50 am

          any reason to not have the polling booths open over the two weeks? Didn't we used to do this, they were at libraries and council offices etc.

          Online voting is a complete no go, it's much more fragile than paper voting.

          • Belladonna 4.2.2.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 11:53 am

            For local government elections, the general polling booths were only open on polling day. You could cast a vote ahead of time for special reasons (mostly people who would be travelling on voting day) – but the locations were few and far-between (IIRC it was only at the Council head office)

            This is not surprising as the polling booths were located in community facilities (school halls, church halls, etc.) – which were being used for regular purposes in the 2 weeks running up to polling day. And, also you have to have (by law) a team of official staff on duty at each polling place to guard against undue influence – so 14x more expensive than just hiring people for voting day, itself.

            I can't link, as these were my recollections of working compiling vote results in the 1990s.

            • weka 4.2.2.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 12:20 pm

              I might be thinking of drop boxes for posted papers. We could definitely improve access to voting, it's been a real low point this year.

              • Belladonna …
                9 October 2022 at 12:44 pm

                Certainly in Auckland, we've had drop boxes for completed voting papers at hundreds of locations across the city – libraries, supermarkets, malls – as well as council offices.

                Once you have your voting papers there's plenty of scope for options to return them, other than the (highly unreliable) postal system.

                The biggest problem has been the failure of postal voting papers to arrive. This seems to be across the country. And is a side-effect of the increasingly unreliable postal system (it frequently takes 10 days for a letter to be delivered from one side of the city to the other – a sad outcome for what used to be a world class delivery service); and it is common for mail to simply never arrive (God knows where it ends up).

                Although, the inability of at least one special voting booth to actually allow people to vote (not enough voting papers) is also of considerable concern.

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/your-vote-2022-auckland-voters-turned-away-after-special-vote-ballots-run-out/OEZVUPG7JE5C3JJEZA2CJDC2UA/

                However, setting all of that aside. The vast majority of eligible voters did receive their voting papers; and have multiple (easy) options to return them. So the failure to vote isn't for technical reasons. Many, many people simply appear to see no value in voting.

                • weka …
                  9 October 2022 at 12:54 pm

                  Many, many people simply appear to see no value in voting.

                  this is what it looks like to me.

          • Paul Campbell 4.2.2.1.2
            9 October 2022 at 3:20 pm

            One of the problems with the current law is that the local election process is effectively closed, scrutineers are only allowed for votes counted AFTER the polls are closed, however with postal voting most votes are counted before the polls are closed, often at the other end of the country.

            • weka 4.2.2.1.2.1
              9 October 2022 at 3:43 pm

              maybe have two polling days, as well as postal ballots with a lot of obvious drop off points, and a way better system for casting Specials.

            • Belladonna 4.2.2.1.2.2
              9 October 2022 at 3:53 pm

              Do you think this is a problem in reality (i.e. there is actual vote tampering or leaking of preliminary results)? Or just a potential problem (there is a risk of underhanded operations)?

              Because, fiddling with electoral law over scrutineering isn't going to do one little bit to encourage people to believe that their vote makes a difference – which seems to me to be the elephant in the room when it comes to local election turnout.

              • Paul Campbell …
                9 October 2022 at 4:44 pm

                I have no idea if there's a real problem – I just think that elections should be open and accountable – sections 80 and 81 of the Local Electoral act effectively make scrutineers in local elections unable to function if it's a postal vote (though a council could insist that votes only be counted AFTER the close of voting)

                https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2001/0035/latest/whole.html#DLM94394

                Supposedly there's still a JP involved somehow. I'm not sure how that even works if the election is being done by a private firm.

                • Paul Campbell …
                  9 October 2022 at 4:54 pm

                  BTW I understand that STV votes are difficult to process by hand – but I think that opening them, feeding them to a scanner and validating that what was scanned is what was on the ballot are things that a scrutineer should be able watch over – along with what happens when there is an issue with a ballot – for example if a number is missing or the scanner can't read it.

                  This time around I scribbled out the bar codes next to the candidates I felt were real numpties and didn't deserve to be ranked, (the anti-vaxxers, the nazis etc) just as a way to manage ranking the 40 people running for council. In retrospect I have no idea what that does, maybe it invalidated my ballot (even though their names were still visible and I had not ranked any of them) – I would hope that if the computer had a problem then a human would have looked at my ballot, on which my intent was obvious and made sure my vote counted – equally I would hope that there's someone looking over their shoulder (someone from the left and someone from the right and everywhere in-between) making sure that they're dealing with my ballot fairly

                  • Belladonna …
                    9 October 2022 at 6:14 pm

                    When I was a scrutineer – admittedly over 25 years ago – your voting paper would have been rejected from the auto count – and processed separately.

                    We had to do this with all the people, who put X instead of 'tick' (for example).

                    Informal ballots are a pain in the neck for scrutineers.

      • Anne 4.2.3
        8 October 2022 at 6:37 pm

        There will be a lot of finger pointing over this.

        Yes. That mirror gazing must start immediately.

        • lurgee 4.2.3.1
          9 October 2022 at 5:16 am

          Well, one can learn from reverses or pretend they did not happen. A bit of reflection can be a good thing. Or, I suppose, we could opt for the Left's preferred option which is blame shifting, factionising and self-destruction in the never ending conflict between 'purity' and 'electability' … who will win this round, I wonder?

    • higherstandard 4.3
      8 October 2022 at 6:09 pm

      Rubbish Anne, I live in the same suburb as yourself, Efeso was not driven out and to suggest the the vote is reflective of racism in Devonport and the Northshore is utter nonsense.

      • Anne 4.3.1
        8 October 2022 at 6:29 pm

        Jumping to conclusions again? The racist taunts occurred in the northern half of the electorate. It doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of aging rednecks up that neck of the woods.

        The person who related the story and was a witness to some of it is renowned for understatement so I am in no doubt it happened.

      • Belladonna 4.3.2
        9 October 2022 at 12:52 pm

        I agree. North Shore has elected 2 of the more progressive councillors (Hills & Darby), rather than the C&R alternatives (Grant and Wood). Demonstrating that they are far more open to alternative ideas, than many other areas of Auckland – and, therefore, perhaps, more likely to vote Collins than Brown.

        I have no reason to doubt that Collins may have been heckled – most politicians are; however, I would have expected any specific racial element to have been covered in the media (no evidence, when I looked). But to describe him as 'effectively driven out' is well beyond the bounds of belief.

        Anne's 'reliable informant' doesn't appear to be very reliable.

        • Anne 4.3.2.1
          9 October 2022 at 4:01 pm

          Anne's 'reliable informant' is a damn sight more reliable than you are. But keep kidding yourself you are the fountain of all knowledge even when you clearly have none at all – on this matter anyway.

          Collins was interviewed about the abuse and the racist taunts he was subjected to. He had expected some but nothing like what he got. He described it as "shocking". I gather there were also a few threats. Can’t recall which media outlet it was.

          Generally speaking the MSM chose to ignore it. I also note, that apart from a brief press release from the Herald editor last Sunday, the MSM also largely ignored Brown's obnoxious comment re – journalist Simon Wilson who was doing what he is paid to do… ask the tough questions.

          Neither MSM response surprises me in the least.

          • Belladonna 4.3.2.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 6:18 pm

            Well, given you have form for uncritically accepting the received wisdom from people you believe are reliable – you'll have to actually provide some evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

            Not even asking for MSM – a Facebook or other social media post will do.

            • Anne 4.3.2.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 7:19 pm

              …you have form for uncritically accepting the received wisdom from people you believe are reliable –

              That is a dishonest response coming from a Johnny-Come-Lately to a long term commenter who has no such reputation – that is, apart from mischief-makers.

              I fully concur with Muttonbird's reflection when he said:

              … you deliberately spread misinformation for political gain, Belladonna, something which I'm sure even you would agree is dangerous.

              Open Mike 6 Oct. 9:43pm.

              Play the game and you will gain respect. Sully the game and you will lose.

              • Belladonna …
                9 October 2022 at 7:25 pm

                No Anne. Not a dishonest response.

                You absolutely have form on this.

                I remind you of your statements in relation to Charlotte Bellis – when you *uncritically* accepted the statements from various Ministers. And, even when the Ministers concerned apologised and admitted that they were wrong – you were highly reluctant to follow suit.

                One of the requirements on TS is to link to sources. The reason is to allow others to critically evaluate both the information and the source and understand the context.

                Waiting……

                • Anne …
                  9 October 2022 at 7:41 pm

                  Oh, I see you're the boss of the site now are you?

                  Have you told lprent? I don't think he knows you've taken over. 😮

                  • Belladonna …
                    9 October 2022 at 7:45 pm

                    So. No link.

                    And, you only feel that you need to obey the site rules when the ‘boss’ tells you to. How…. ethical ….. /sarc/

                    You've got nothing.

                    I think we can all evaluate just how 'reliable' your source was….

                    • Anne …
                      9 October 2022 at 7:49 pm

                      Muttonbird and others are on the money. You are playing mischievous games and soft-trolling this site.

                  • Belladonna …
                    9 October 2022 at 7:51 pm

                    Yeah, right.
                    Anyone who challenges your world view is trolling.

    • lprent 4.4
      9 October 2022 at 12:59 pm

      I consider that Wayne Brown is an incompetent blusterer who simply won't have the political or personal ability to convince the council or the CCOs to do what he wants. As far as I can tell, he seldom listens to anything apart from listening to his own bullshit.

      Both in Northland and during this campaign, there was nothing coherent about his policies or actions. Which essentially means that we will probably get a lot of council dithering

      He does reflect the right quite well.

      Like Anne and others, I strongly suspect that simple racism had a good deal to do with the mayoralty result.

      • Graham 4.4.1
        9 October 2022 at 1:06 pm

        If it’s racism who are the racists?

        did the right wing vote increase or did the left wing collapse?

        Dosent it indicate that the left are the racist

        • lprent 4.4.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 1:30 pm

          How about reading my comment rather than being a complete fool putting your own idiotic spin on it.

          Wayne Brown's only political affiliation that I know about was as old Labour. However his personality is that of a dumbarse blusterer who always claims more ability than is evident. You see this throughout his political careers from his inadequate performance in Auckland'd district health boards through to his blurring of roles between personal and official in Northland.

          If it’s racism who are the racists?

          People who voted against Collins or simply didn't vote because he was Samoan.

          If you want to dispute then I suggest that you assert that so everyone can see just how stupid you really are,

          Or if you want to dispute that the vote didn't drop, then I suggest that you stop playing with your primary brain and look it up with the one on top of your shoulders

          • RedLogix 4.4.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 2:24 pm

            In Asia people vote for Asian politicians, in Latin America of Latinos, in Africa for Africans. India has notably voted for Indian leaders for quite a long time now.

            But the mere act of voting for a white person has somehow become the definition of racism these days. Wonderful.

            • Anne 4.4.1.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 7:31 pm

              That is disingenuous Redlogix and you know it. What's more you are much better than that…

              There are plenty of racists in NZ. It goes both ways but the majority of them are Pakeha boomers. They also make up the bulk of the Local Body voters. Their preference always win.

              Yes, if younger voters made the effort to vote the results would be totally different. Efeso Collins would have won. The trick will be to reform the voting system to make it more attractive to younger people. The Boomers will not be happy but one day there will be none left. 😉

              • Jimmy …
                10 October 2022 at 10:18 am

                Do you think the Wellington result was racist? Or Rotorua?

                I voted for the candidate with the policies I agreed with, nothing to do with their colour or ethnicity.

          • Belladonna 4.4.1.1.2
            9 October 2022 at 7:33 pm

            Racism as an explanation would be more believable, if the Auckland result was against the trend across NZ, but it's not.

            Indeed, it's the Tory Whanau result in Wellington which bucks the trend.

            For the rest of NZ there has been a shift rightwards – to a greater or lesser extent (including Tania Tapsell in Rotorua – right wing Maori woman – which is, I think, a first for NZ).

            That seems sufficient to explain the Brown/Collins result.

            • lprent 4.4.1.1.2.1
              9 October 2022 at 8:03 pm

              Across the whole country there is a second trend . As far as I can see the total vote in each area is down.

              In the Auckland mayoralty the drop is close to enough to explain the result.

              In the Auckland region, there is a third trend in te elections since 2010. The mayoralty vote follows the money pretty closely. Brown outspent Collins by quite similar margin.

              Incidentally, everywhere, this is often a trait of elections that have large spends and small turnouts.

              As Red points out further up, people tend to support politicians who they perceive are like them, and tend to oppose people who are not.

              The main effect in this election was likely to have been on funding. Quite simply the number of people giving money probably screwed towards the incompetent buffon and away from the competent politician who happened to be actually brown rather than named Brown.

              Election results are multi-faceted beasts. But what really needs to happen in local body elections is that the spending needs to be put on a leash. That makes it harder to win by mainly influencing just funders.

              We also need to make voting a damn sight simpler. Postal voting these days is completely stupid. Online voting is damn dangerous. The most effective vote this time is at a poling station and on a weekend close to malls and markets.

              This helps to reduce the money and low vote effects that Act was hoping for when they pushed through the super shitty structure back in 2010.

              The incompetent buffon won. That is going to be a sad result because he really doesn’t know anything much apart from political bluster.

              • Belladonna …
                9 October 2022 at 8:34 pm

                I certainly agree with your detailed response around money and funding.

                Though the grass-roots campaign run by the superbly talented Tory Whanau in Wellington shows that it doesn't have to be an inevitable result. I believe Whanau was the campaign manager for Swarbrick in her successful swoop on the Auckland Central electorate [please note, that alliteration is admiration, not dismissal or criticism]

                I admit to being thoroughly agnostic on electoral voting changes. I don't believe changing the voting method is going to achieve anything, while people continue to believe that voting makes no difference.

                As I said above. We have two petri-dishes of local government in Auckland and Wellington over the next three years – a real opportunity to show people that the result of their vote does matter.

                • lprent …
                  11 October 2022 at 11:55 am

                  I don't believe changing the voting method is going to achieve anything, while people continue to believe that voting makes no difference.

                  I think that the method does matter. In my opinion, the local body turnout has kept going down over time simply because the voting period is too long and you can't actually vote on the day.

                  I always want to vote.

                  But I have missed posting my local body vote in during several local body elections over decades simply because I didn't get to a post box. It has been in the car or even in my pocket for weeks.

                  But I simply don't go near postboxes in any of my normal days. It is a special trip sometime over several weeks. I'd have to try to park to put it in. These days I barely drive anyway because I mostly work from home. There aren't any on cycle routes that I exercise on.

                  Crucially there aren't any postboxes in the supermarket that I shop in, and these days I mostly shop online or I go to pickup from someplace in the burbs – usually pbtech. Not exactly a large post box selection.

                  I have missed several local elections simply due to a change of address meaning that I didn't get the papers. That is despite always updating the post office for new addresses.

                  I've never missed a general election because there are always a ballot box that is within walking distance.

                  These days the Auckland city / super city mayoral elections (as an indicator) are about 35% turnout. In the mid-90s they usually were about 45-50%, in the mid-80s about 40-65%. The 1970s turnouts were almost invariably about 45% at peak.

                  It fluctuates a bit because of the interest in the candidates. But the last time the Auckland mayoralty got to 50% was 12 years ago in 2010 – when the super shitty was formed.

                  The trends for local body elections are long-standing. Have nothing much to do with the current election and seemed to be pretty tied to what units people are voting for and how they can vote. From memory postal voting came in in the 1989 changes. It has been a downward trend ever since.

                  Voters were just as full of "what difference does it make" then as they are now. They just voted more because it was easier to do.

                  Plus of course our turnout at national elections is about 75-82% with a different set of voting methods. We should try he more successful techniques rather than persistent with a failing model because it is cheap.

  5. Shanreagh 5
    8 October 2022 at 4:05 pm

    Tory Whanau is Mayor in Wellington…Yay!

    As at 4.00pm (some annotations in the best possible taste!)

    • Auckland: Wayne Brown elected Mayor, Efeso Collins concedes
    • Rotorua: Former National candidate Tania Tapsell wins (I feel quite pleased about this as I think she should have been the Nat candidate for Tauranga instead of having to choose between Uphillanddowndale and the other three similar offerings.
    • Wellington: Tory Whanau wins mayoralty…yay yay, yay!
    • Nelson: Old Nick Smith is Nelson's new old Mayor
    • Christchurch: Phil Mauger leads, David Meates about 3800 votes behind
    • Dunedin: Aaron Hawkins isn't re-elected, Jules Radich is the new Mayor
    • Invercargill: Nobby Clark receives the most votes, Sir Tim Shadbolt ousted
  6. Shanreagh 6
    8 October 2022 at 4:14 pm

    Now we just have to wait and see how many VFF 'apparatchiks' get stealthily elected and what impact they will have if elected.

    • swordfish 6.1
      8 October 2022 at 5:05 pm

      .

      Tory Whanau, of course, the perfect example of a Party Apparatchik turned Corporate Lobbyist in that revolving door of vested interests that just keeps on a-spinnin'.

      • Shanreagh 6.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 5:15 pm

        Tory Whanau a vested interest? Don't think so?

        Former Green Chief of Staff and so is used to organising which is a blessing plus she has charisma, which is also useful.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 6.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 5:33 pm

          This

          https://www.whanauandco.com/

          I'm a business-savvy public affairs consultant who can provide you with expert advice on digital, social media and communications strategies. I can also provide government relations expertise with some of the best connections across Parliament.

          Oh and she won $1 mill in Lotto

      • lurgee 6.1.2
        9 October 2022 at 5:19 am

        A, so the Long March to the left, seeking the promised land of ideological purity has begun with demonising of someone for daring to have a job?

        Workers of all lands unite!

      • Anker 6.1.3
        9 October 2022 at 7:50 pm

        100% Swordfish.

        Tory has a vested interested in woke ideology.

  7. Ad 7
    8 October 2022 at 4:27 pm

    What's Queenstown Lakes?

    • Shanreagh 7.1
      8 October 2022 at 4:31 pm

      'Yer tiz Ad

      2:20pm – Glyn Lewers will be the Mayor of Queenstown Lakes District Council.

      Lewers received 3,678 votes ahead of Jon Mitchell (3,105 votes), Olivia Wensley (2,110 votes), Al Angus (678 votes), Neeta Shetty (432 votes), and Daniel Shand (166 votes).

      • Bearded Git 7.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 4:39 pm

        Lewers was Boult's anointed right wing successor. We hoped that Olivia would split the right's vote so Jon could come through the middle but her vote collapsed due to her awful campaigning.

        • weka 7.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 4:46 pm

          That's depressing.

          any chance once all votes counted?

        • Graeme 7.1.1.2
          8 October 2022 at 5:53 pm

          Not s sure about Lewers being Boult's anointed. Boult was moaning about the quality of candidates the other day. I presumed that included Lewers.

          At least being from the last council Lewers will have to take responsibility once Lakeview and turns to poo, and knows where the bodies are buried there. He's also done a pretty good job around Frankton and has got that vote sewn up.

          Very pleased Wensly (and Duke) has been told to fuck off and that vote gives me some assurance on the local economy, her politics appeal to failing developers and tradies. She had to be defensive because it all turned to shit for her very quickly.

          Overall I'm very pleased with the new Council, a lot of continuity, some very good new members and a very good and insightful campaign. Place had a good air out. And quite green / liberal, only a couple of self interested redknecks, a balanced council that can make decisions that will be accepted by the community. It could have come out a lot worse.

          Preliminary results are on QLDC site based on 90% count with out votes in transit and specials, which could be substantial.

          With 500 votes between Jon Mitchel and Lewers it is possible it gets much closer. Would have a good laugh if Glyn had to do another coin toss. In 1999 his place was decided on a toss after he tied with AJ Mason for lowest polling elected candidate. Was a bit of a bugger as both were capable candidates.

          • Ad 7.1.1.2.1
            8 October 2022 at 7:05 pm

            V helpful commentary there Graeme

            • Bearded Git 7.1.1.2.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 10:32 am

              Yes thank you Graeme. But you are wrong about Jon Mitchell still having a chance-and I still think Lewers was pushed to stand by the grandees in a smoke filled room (including Boult) because there was no right winger with a winnable profile.

              And I'm not so sure you are right about the council mix either though there are some hopeful signs. Ester Whitehead and Niki Gladding are good value and so is Quentin Smith in Wanaka. Wanaka also elected a 27 year old Cody Tucker (friend of my son actually) who may be good if he gets stuck in.

      • Ad 7.1.2
        8 October 2022 at 5:29 pm

        Argh. Ta.

  8. MickeyBoyle 8
    8 October 2022 at 4:37 pm

    Many excuses above for Efeso's failure. But imo Efeso lost the second he accepted Labour's endorsement. Add in the "celebrity" backing from Guy Williams, Simon Wilson, Lorde and many others, is there really any wonder he failed?

    Imo Fes would have won the mayoralty by staying truly independent and telling Labour and the celebrities to effectively "sod off".

    I know this won't go down well here, but the current Labour brand is toxic in NZ. Many will try and deny that, but these results across the country and the latest polling with Labour in the 20s prove that.

    As I have said many times here before, Labour need to drop the co-governance, three waters and RNZ/TVNZ policies. The average kiwi doesn't want it, and we on the left like with the CGT debate, always fail to sell them to the populace.

    If Labour don't drop these divisive policies and have a serious refresh in caucus they are doomed next year.

    Let's hope they can read the writing on the wall.

    • hetzer 8.1
      8 October 2022 at 5:07 pm

      With backing from Ardern, Goff, goons like Simon Wilson and Guy Williams, toss in a celebrity moron like Lorde, his fate was sealed.

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 6:15 pm

        Talking of moron endorsement, that restauranteur Molloy endorsed Brown.

        Therses no actual basis to your claims. Labour endorsement previously meant the candidate nearly got a half the vote.

        Collins would have been a good Mayor but Brown had a data driven campaign with a better message

      • DB Brown 8.1.2
        10 October 2022 at 8:15 am

        "goons like… toss in a celebrity moron like…"

        You are clearly a short poppy sad wee incel. Go write an angry post about Disney, dropkick.

    • swordfish 8.2
      8 October 2022 at 5:24 pm

      .

      Yep … but it'll fall on deaf ears … tragically, the main institutions of the Left have been slowly but surely captured & transformed into an Upper-Middle Vanity Project with a decidedly elitist & undemocratic bent.

      With their enthusiastic embrace of the crude, distorted fantasy-world of Critical Theory dogma, they appear intent on destroying all the good, wise & valuable facets of the liberal democratic legacy passed down to us … while cynically deploying the excesses of ID Politics as a weapon to both impose a new authoritarianism & to viciously scapegoat significant segments of their traditional core constituency (by stealth if they can get away with it).

      Ruthless pursuit of elitist / professional-managerial class self-interest desperately dressed-up as caring 'altruism', a supposedly new form of 'moralism'. LOL.

      We’re really now just seeing political parties representing rival factions of the establishment (albeit with one faction comprised of affluent Wokedom pursuing self-interest by indulging in fraudulent moral posturing & coveting a Rik-like aura of che guevara beret-wearing radical chic).

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.2.1
        8 October 2022 at 6:17 pm

        Oh dear . Still working through your grief over Rogernomics. I hope you get well soon.

        • swordfish 8.2.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 7:20 pm

          .

          Still working through your grief over Rogernomics

          Does that actually mean anything ?

          It appears to have no relationship whatsoever to anything I’ve written here over recent years.

          Just some desperate, random, half-hearted stab at something – anything – resembling rebutal ? Dear oh dear … surely you can’t be that inadequate ?

          Can't help seeing this as a rather tragic effort at an erudite little bon mot to impress Wokedom … unfortunately, I suspect your stocks may be falling there. Particularly after your clumsy, oafish attempt at gaslighting. Sure sign of bad faith, zero ethics & a certain degree of desperation.

          • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.2.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 8:54 am

            Surely you dont really believe your high end bulls%$#….'Rik-like aura of che guevara beret-wearing radical chic).'

            You should really be a scriptwriter for Home and Away…it so pays better for low brow bulls$#@

      • lurgee 8.2.2
        9 October 2022 at 1:05 pm

        These results are a wonderful Rorschach into which every one can read what they want.

    • higherstandard 8.3
      8 October 2022 at 6:11 pm

      No no you have it all wrong…. Fez lost because racism !

      • Anne 8.3.1
        8 October 2022 at 6:40 pm

        Racism played a significant role!

        • kat 8.3.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 7:07 pm

          Don't worry too much Anne, it will be a short honeymoon for W. Brown….but then you would think Aucklanders would be savvy after having had someone similar as John Banks for mayor…….looking at some results around the towns it would seem local body elections really do bring out the sado-masochists in force…..

          • Anne 8.3.1.1.1
            8 October 2022 at 7:21 pm

            Sanctuary said it all @ 2

            "I guess boomers who vote prefer white boomers"

            These boomers own their own homes. They have a nice little nest-egg in the bank. They get paid by the government to ride free on public transport and have day trips to Waiheke free of charge when they are in Auckland.

            They don't really care about anyone else but they love pretending they do care.

            Pardon my sarcasm but I've seen it all over and over again. smiley

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.3.1.1.1.1
              8 October 2022 at 7:53 pm

              The largest group of voters is the 50+ age group

              Ignore the biggest group at your peril.

              Anyway Brown sent the far right candidate ( Molloy) and the centre right ( Beck) packing.

              • kat …
                8 October 2022 at 8:14 pm

                Have to agree with you there Ghost about the dominant voters age especially in local body elections, and that is why the non boomers really need to get their dags together, locally AND nationally and start participating instead of blaming boomers for all the ills and outcomes………

                • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                  9 October 2022 at 8:59 am

                  It wont matter . The millenials and their camp followers are so outnumbered by the boomers

                  And the 18-25 group will really never care about roads, librarys and sewers.

                  I see a number here are Trumpist in their outlook- 'we must discredit the voting system and blame that for our loss' as struggle for even knowing what went wrong

            • SSEMI 8.3.1.1.1.2
              9 October 2022 at 12:09 pm

              God forbid, to retire with your own home and a bit of financial security. Isn’t this what we should be working to get everyone to be able to achieve? Forget tall poppy syndrome, we’ve now moved on to average poppy syndrome.

    • Ad 8.4
      8 October 2022 at 7:10 pm

      Efeso was outspent by several million.

      Independent-but-aligned would have been an even worse result.

      Efeso was also shanked by open conspiracy of 3 campaigns from the hard right joining together in the last month.

      Kiwirail and AT destroyed his key policy in the start of the last week. Active unstated attack at Board level, if you can imagine NZTA announcing a shutdown of SH1 for 2 years 6 days from voting – is what theydid.

      Ardern arriving through golden clouds couldn't have helped him.

      • Sabine 8.4.1
        8 October 2022 at 7:57 pm

        Kiwirail and AT destroyed his key policy in the start of the last week. Active unstated attack at Board level, if you can imagine NZTA announcing a shutdown of SH1 for 2 years 6 days from voting – is what theydid.

        hard to run on public transport when Kiwirail and AT are going to shut down a whole lot of that public transport for a few years literally.

        He was essentially knecapped before he could get anything done. Even for AT that is a first.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.4.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 9:02 am

          What shutdown of SH1 in Auckland for 2 years by NZTA ?

          I keep an eye on SH stuff and I never heard that

          • weka 8.4.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 9:04 am

            it hasn't happened, it was an example to show how seriously bad the AT announcement was.

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.4.1.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 11:53 am

              later comments connect the timing to Kiwirail upgrades to the Auckland rail network infrastructure.

              So a fair way off to connect it to NZTA or AT

              It seems parts will be closed for 2 months not 2 years , but network wide its 2 years or so – which would be linked to the CRL opening and increased rail services.

              • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                9 October 2022 at 12:39 pm

                Kiwirail is responsible for the track works. not AT

                https://www.kiwirail.co.nz/what-we-do/projects/amp/rail-network-rebuild/

                'Carrying out significant work like this on a live network that operates 24/7 is extremely difficult. For example, if we were to do this work in our current evening and weekend maintenance windows, it would take almost two decades to complete.'

                never ceases to amaze me who like to think Zero carbon infrastructure works will be harmless to them

      • weka 8.4.2
        9 October 2022 at 8:56 am

        do you think the timing of that announcement was deliberate?

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.4.3
        9 October 2022 at 3:16 pm

        Efeso outspent by millions ?

        Thats hard to believe when the election spending limit for Auckland Mayor is well under $1 mill. From the Council handbook

        The estimated expenditure limit for the mayor is $680,638 (including GST), based on:

        ° a population estimate as at 30 June 2021 of 1,715,600 and;

        ° 1,161,277 electors as at 31 January 2022

        Goff spent $436k last time

  9. Shanreagh 9
    8 October 2022 at 4:41 pm

    Wellington had an over 45% turnout and 85% of votes counted. Final results tomorrow.

    https://wellington.govt.nz/news-and-events/news-and-information/our-wellington/2022/10/tory-whanau-mayor

  10. weka 10
    8 October 2022 at 5:05 pm

    Congratulations Robert Guyton!

    • Robert Guyton 10.1
      8 October 2022 at 8:31 pm

      Thanks, weka – I'm a little restrained in my response, as my margin is not as convincing as I would like, as it was 3 years ago, and the "specials" are yet to be counted … 🙂 so for me, it's taihoa for another 24 hours, then the matter will be sorted, one way or another.

      Consequently, it's tenter-hooks for me and a restless night ahead … 🙂

      • weka 10.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 8:40 pm

        I just saw that! Alexa Forbes has a majority of one vote 😬

        24 hours isn't too bad, I'm glad it's not a week.

        • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 8:56 pm

          It was over a week last time 🙂

          I lost 50 lbs on that hot desert ground!

          Should be fine. Poor Alexa! She's needed there!

          • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 8:04 am

            Alexa made it also (ORC).

            Plus, 3 new mayors for Southland! Invercargill, Southland District and Gore.

            Significant change and today's sky is a broiling mass of very unusual lenticular cloud 🙂

            • weka 10.1.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2022 at 8:45 am

              Robb Scott? What can you tell us about him?

              • Robert Guyton …
                10 October 2022 at 9:21 am

                Lovely man, youngish, likeable, seemingly without guile. Served as councillor previously. Campaigned modestly, nervously to begin with.

                He'll have his hands full dealing with self-avowed VFF broadcaster and stridently anti-UN/Jacinda, disinformation-spreading Jaspreet Boparai, who won a seat at the table of the Southland District Council.

        • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.2
          9 October 2022 at 9:31 pm

          Safely back at the council table, despite my unkempt appearance and wild thinking 🙂

          • weka 10.1.1.2.1
            9 October 2022 at 10:14 pm

            Hooray! Here's to unkempt and wild!

          • Ad 10.1.1.2.2
            10 October 2022 at 9:28 am

            Good work Robert and congratulations for your hard work in your community.

            • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.2.2.1
              10 October 2022 at 9:49 am

              Thank you, Ad. The coming 3 years will be an engaging challenge, with a reinvigorated rural BAU Groundswell-backed upsurge pushing hard against the reality of environmental degradation and climate disruption. With just 3 more years (planned) on the council, I will be speaking out and acting decisively in order to stem that murky backwash 🙂

      • gsays 10.1.2
        9 October 2022 at 9:55 am

        Fingers crossed for you here in the 'Tu too, Robert.

        • Robert Guyton 10.1.2.1
          9 October 2022 at 10:04 am

          Cheers, gsays!

          I'm in a liminal space 🙂

          • gsays 10.1.2.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 10:19 am

            First, tenter (I always thought it was 'tender') now liminal.

            So early in the day to have learnt two things.

            • Matiri 10.1.2.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 10:50 am

              It comes from the latin 'tentus' which means stretch. Back in the days they used to stretch wool out to dry on a tenter secured with hooks.

              School latin surfacing here!

    • Patricia Bremner 10.2
      8 October 2022 at 8:31 pm

      smiley Well deserved Robert.

  11. tsmithfield 11
    8 October 2022 at 5:10 pm

    Phil Mauger won Christchurch. I think that was a "stick it to the politicians" vote. Hopefully he will do a good job. He got a lot of approval down here when, as both a councillor and a local business man, he used his construction gear to dig a channel to relieve flooding in Wainoni.

    It had been a perennial problem that the council hadn't bothered to address for years. He ignored the red tape and sorted the issue for the residents. And got fined by the council for his trouble.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/124540232/christchurch-councillor-fined-300-for-digging-unauthorised-trench

    I must admit, I voted for him because I am hoping he will get the council to focus much more on infrastructure issues, which I regard to be the core purpose of the council.

    • Ghostwhowalksnz 11.1
      8 October 2022 at 6:20 pm

      Mauger was a existing Councillor !

      The existing Mayor has retired and not running so cant be ' sticked too'

      It seems to me you are projecting your own attitudes onto the results , but without any logical basis

  12. Shanreagh 12
    8 October 2022 at 5:18 pm

    I must admit, I voted for him because I am hoping he will get the council to focus much more on infrastructure issues, which I regard to be the core purpose of the council.

    Yes I must admit Paul Eagle was high on my list for the Wellington Mayor for that reason…potholes, building, housing etc.

    • Cricklewood 12.1
      8 October 2022 at 5:32 pm

      It really should be top priority for council, having semi regular sewage leaks into the harbour is a disaster…

      • Shanreagh 12.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 5:45 pm

        Yes.

        One of my reasons for thinking that the 3 Waters changes are not such a bad thing to be honest.

  13. Todd Packer 13
    8 October 2022 at 5:31 pm

    Is PM Ardern our mirror image of Trump? Everyone she campaigns for, doesn't win.

    • Peter 13.1
      8 October 2022 at 6:44 pm

      In every election someone wins and someone doesn't.

      There is only one Donald Trump and given what he is like there will never ever be another and never will there be a mirror image.

    • Patricia Bremner 13.2
      9 October 2022 at 2:33 pm

      Todd, Jacinda Ardern is the antithesis of Trump. A swing is the mood of the electorate.angry

    • Corey Humm 13.3
      10 October 2022 at 5:32 pm

      Actually it's a lot like the democrats under Obama, over 8 years they were obliterated in state and municipal and police elections to the point that in 2016 not only had they lost all branches of federal government for the first time in a century, more importantly there focus on federal elections meant they'd lost most of the state senates, state congresses , governorships, the supreme court and were the most powerless I think any USA opposition had ever been since the 19th century.

      Jacinda is in many ways our Obama.

      • pat 13.3.1
        10 October 2022 at 5:57 pm

        "Jacinda is in many ways our Obama."

        Now that may well be a perceptive view that i havnt heard expressed before

  14. Ad 14
    8 October 2022 at 6:00 pm

    Anyone got a list of Auckland Councillors, and local boards?

  15. Mat Simpson 15
    8 October 2022 at 6:36 pm

    " Such is the “democracy” we are being invited to support by sending in our voting papers. To say that it has become a charade would be to seriously understate the problem. Most councillors long ago gave up being representatives of the people in favour of becoming rubber-stamps for the Council bureaucracy. Money-wise, it has proved to be a very good deal. The ordinary Auckland City Councillor stands to receive a “base remuneration” of $107,794 "

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/09/29/they-call-it-democracy-but-theyre-lying/

  16. Jester 16
    8 October 2022 at 7:05 pm

    Looks like Efeso has had enough of politics after that defeat.

    Efeso Collins quits politics after defeat in Auckland mayoral race | Stuff.co.nz

    • Anne 16.1
      8 October 2022 at 7:34 pm

      Not surprised. The racial abuse and the threats he was subjected to – including apparently against his own family – would be more than enough to quit politics. Now that the election is over, I cannot emphasise enough how ashamed I am to be an Aucklander because of this behaviour. That includes the filthy slur against a journalist (only doing the job he is paid to do) by the new Mayor of Auckland.

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 7:49 pm

        You would be surprised what many politicians say in private about journalists.( or their own colleagues) Browns slur while offensive, was an off camera moment.

        Im sure what they say in private about Hosking would be far worse.

        • Shanreagh 16.1.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 9:38 pm

          Browns slur while offensive, was an off camera moment.

          Not so sure you are correct. Treat every mic as a hot mic seemed to be disregarded by Brown, otherwise how would we have got to hear about it.

          He is crass, no other word.

          Emphasised by his stupid song "hit the road Goff' at his party. Some of his discretion switches don't seem to be working or else the rules his Mummy taught him about 'zipping it sweety' (apols to Bennett) have been forgotten

          • Ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 8:22 am

            Im correct. It was shown on TV so was caught by a camera microphone, not 'standing at a microphone'

            So you are saying the professional politicians who are only on message are what voters want ?

            The Heralds opinion columnist ( not a reporter) has been very hard on him, which is fine but expect some pushback.

            • Shanreagh 16.1.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2022 at 9:00 am

              Treat every mic as a hot mic…you are splitting hairs.

              No not talking about message I am talking about crassness, crudity and low wit. Brown seems to have an abundance of them. Smutty is another word.

              I think politicians who have a hankering to show an inner self as Brown has should be advised not too as it actually detracts from their message.

              The couple of times I saw or read reports of Brown his use of ratepayers all the time, as if they were the only ones who counted put me off him as well. We are all residents of the place we live and policies should be for all.

              • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                10 October 2022 at 9:32 am

                There was no mike in front of him ! So need to construct a scenario to suit. It was caught by a camera mic off the stage.

                Sure it was crass, no doubt about it. But you are naive to think that its not everyday thing to disparage journalists- opinion writers who disparage you in their columns.

                But Im sure his bluntness and level of critical comments is something the voters wanted. I know that mattered for me and Im normally a labour voter in council elections, but theres other choices for wards etc which allow a choice of a different style of candidate

    • Mat Simpson 16.2
      8 October 2022 at 7:49 pm

      " Looks like Efeso has had enough of politics after that defeat.

      He will be fine LINO will offer him a safe list seat and he will be back but probably not near the treasury benches after 2023.

      Its regrettable but the country is moving right.

      • Belladonna 16.2.1
        8 October 2022 at 8:12 pm

        TBH, I'd be surprised if Collins goes into national politics – being an MP is a very tough job with a young family to consider; and I'm sure this has been a bruising contest not only for him, but for his family as well.

        I suspect that he has other offers on the table, which will be a better fit.

        • Mat Simpson 16.2.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 8:35 pm

          I said a nice safe list seat or a gifted electorate.

          " TBH, I'd be surprised if Collins goes into national politics – being an MP is a very tough job with a young family to consider; and I'm sure this has been a bruising contest not only for him, but for his family as well.

          I am sure beneath the smooth veneer he is tough otherwise why run for mayor which is a 36 month contract and I am sure having a young family he had weighed that up.

          Which means he will feature at a national level after the carnage and bonfire of Luxon and Seymour after 2023.

          • Belladonna 16.2.1.1.1
            8 October 2022 at 8:52 pm

            Very different being Auckland mayor (when you sleep at home every night), and being an MP, where you're away from home 3-4 nights a week. Many MPs have commented that, even if you're Wellington-based, the late night hours of the sitting house, are deeply unfriendly to family life.

            If you're thinking 2026 – then I might agree. Though he also may have built a career in another direction over the next 3 years – and it doesn't appear that the Labour Party value him highly (it took a long time for the endorsement to come through).

            I highly doubt that Labour will have any safe electorates or list seats on offer in 2023 – too much internal competition from current MPs.

      • Mike the Lefty 16.2.2
        9 October 2022 at 9:18 am

        "It's regrettable but the country is moving right.."

        Not just NZ, but most of the world – with the exception of South America – and particularly Europe.

        The political right feed like leeches on people's fears and prejudices and with the turmoil caused by the Ukranian conflict and the aftermath of COVID people are easy prey for the right wing manipulators.

        It takes courage to set new policies to deal with problems. The political right seldom offer anything more than a retreat into the past.

        • Anne 16.2.2.1
          9 October 2022 at 10:15 am

          …. with the turmoil caused by the Ukranian conflict and the aftermath of COVID people are easy prey for the right wing manipulators.

          And those "manipulators" manipulate the people into scapegoating the more marginal groups for society's ills and mindlessly voting for the types of people who are responsible for those ills in the first place.

          There must be a suitable name to describe such "people". Any nominations? 👿

  17. Ad 17
    8 October 2022 at 7:17 pm

    Shoutout to Max Harris running Efeso.

    Nos vanquit te salutavit.

  18. Belladonna 18
    8 October 2022 at 8:07 pm

    So looks like a couple of petri-dishes of local government in Auckland and Wellington over the next 3 years.

    Tori Whanau takes Wellington in a left-leaning direction; while Wayne Brown takes Auckland in a right-leaning direction.

    I don't know enough about the local councillors in Wellington to know if Whanau has, or can build, a united council; Brown has what looks like a roughly even left-right split on council – with a couple of independents thrown in for good measure – so may find it a challenge to build consensus.

    • Poission 18.1
      8 October 2022 at 8:17 pm

      Wellington is limited in what they can do,as 3 waters removes 377 million of debt leverage (the ability to borrow over assets),large price decreases in housing values,work from home regime removing both value and revenue from decreased PT use,high cost for increased housing density (due to new EQ requirements for multi story builds) high insurance costs due to EQ risks.

      • Belladonna 18.1.1
        8 October 2022 at 8:35 pm

        Doesn't that hold true in Auckland as well? I'm assuming that both Councils are operating under roughly the same legislative handicaps.

        Operationally, 3 waters removes the debt leverage from Wellington, but also removes responsibility for much of the broken infrastructure.

        • Poission 18.1.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 8:59 pm

          Auckland has a higher debt loading,but larger other revenue base (non rate),the same leveraged debt problem is there,and Auckland has a large debt bomb coming down the pipeline with the CRL blowout ( suppressed to after election).

          Most of the infrastructure problems came from the Cook strait earthquakes,with deconstruction,strengthening,of public buildings (especially recent award winning builds) and a council loaded with dingbats ( some who are still there).

          Christchurch was different with an emphasis in a return to local politics and drivers,and a large dislike for housing intensification (which does not overlay into chch),whilst taking on debt will increases,CHCH still has a large set of quality assets generating income which will be needed to balance the increased OPEX from large scale low income burdens such as the conference centre.

          • Ad 18.1.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 7:47 am

            Good summary.

            Asset funancial separation in 3 Waters has a strong echo to stripping power utilities from Councils 3 decades ago.

            The Dunedin and Christchurch holding companies are final vestiges of regional strength and independence.

    • Mat Simpson 18.2
      8 October 2022 at 8:25 pm

      " I don't know enough about the local councillors in Wellington to know if Whanau has, or can build, a united council "

      Then why comment.

      Everywhere, mealy-mouthed “Codes of Conduct” are being used by the docile majority to slap down and silence the outspoken minority. Even worse, local authority CEOs are using these same codes to prevent councillors from holding council staff to account. Worst of all, council lawyers are intervening in the democratic process by warning councillors that any evidence suggesting their unwillingness to be guided by “the facts” pertaining to a particular policy – especially one involving the private sector – may disqualify them from casting a vote on whether or not it should proceed.

      • Belladonna 18.2.1
        8 October 2022 at 8:32 pm

        For balance. I'm commenting on Auckland (where I know enough about the council to know it's a split).
        I'm offering the opportunity for you (or someone else knowledgeable) to comment on the right/left council makeup in Wellington.

        Though, from your comment below – it seems you think that local democracy is a lost cause, no matter who is voted in.

        • Mat Simpson 18.2.1.1
          8 October 2022 at 8:47 pm

          " Though, from your comment below – it seems you think that local democracy is a lost cause, no matter who is voted in.

          Yes Belladonna and I am not alone just look at the lack of participation and apathy across the whole country what does that say to you.

          I respect you have done your civic duty I used to be the same until I realised how pointless it actually is and that my vote and yours and thousands of others is futile because I know how council's operate and just take a couple of minutes of your time that you spent when you voted to read Trotters post on local government.

          If that does not change your mind then you are just another symptom of the process.

          • Belladonna 18.2.1.1.1
            8 October 2022 at 8:55 pm

            I've read it. And, I agree that council bureaucrats run the cities (I made a comment, elsewhere, that this is likely to explain the low voter turnout in Auckland – (looking like a record low, at this stage)

            Do I think we should give up in nihilistic despair? No. And, I doubt you do either – since you're still bothering to comment on a political site.

            • Mat Simpson 18.2.1.1.1.1
              8 October 2022 at 9:24 pm

              Do I think we should give up in nihilistic despair? No. And, I doubt you do either – since you're still bothering to comment on a political site

              These posts like Mickey Savage's vote to own your future compels me to comment because it seems like so many commentators on this site are deaf , blind and dumb the realities of how this country operates locally and nationally and I understand that many here are " tribal Labour " which unfortunately obscures their reality of government at local and national level.

              I appreciate you read Trotters post and I hope that will remind you when you and others are disillusioned again with local government which I assure you will continue after this election.

    • X Socialist 18.3
      9 October 2022 at 12:35 pm

      I think both Tori and Wayne are going to have problems. I know neither well, but one comes across to me as wokey, and the other as a little Hitler- my way or the highway.

      By a twist of fate, and given their political environments, both mayors have mismatching names. Should both councils becoming dysfunctional leading up to the next general election( a real possibility for Auckland Council), then we are going to have a interesting political landscape.

      https://www.torywhanau.co.nz/my-story

  19. Mat Simpson 19
    8 October 2022 at 8:19 pm

    " so may find it a challenge to build consensus "

    They call it democracy but they are lying !

    The case that democracy is failing – or has already failed – is a strong one. All over the country there is a growing sense that whoever is running their cities, it isn’t the people they elected to office three years ago. Indeed, there is a strong suspicion that any elected representative brave or foolhardy enough to stand up and speak out against the policies and conduct of the council machine is asking for serious trouble.

    Consensus means didly squat !

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/09/29/they-call-it-democracy-but-theyre-lying/

  20. joe90 20
    8 October 2022 at 8:21 pm

    Taupō has elected VFF supporter Duncan Campbell to council.

    Taupō District Council candidate Duncan Campbell said he supports anti-vaccination, anti-mandate group Voices For Freedom (VFF) and spent time at the Parliament protest in February.

    Campbell said at a recent meet the candidates event in Taupō that he had attended meetings held by VFF, saying “I fully support a lot of what they do and stand for”.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300687952/taup-council-candidate-backs-voices-for-freedom-after-initially-not-revealing-stance

  21. Mike the Lefty 21
    8 October 2022 at 8:28 pm

    Nice to see that the VFF backed nutter candidates generally did very badly in the elections. One sneaked into Southland another in Taupo, but seems to be the only ones that I can find. Also one sitting councillor who backed VFF in Carterton lost her seat – good job!

  22. Ad 22
    8 October 2022 at 8:48 pm

    Mayor Brown said the whole AT board must go, so the Chair has quit even before he was sworn in.

      • Visubversa 22.1.1
        9 October 2022 at 8:41 am

        Auckland Transport was set up to fail by Rodney Hide and his asset stripper mates so that anything of value could be picked over. The election of Len Brown and a vaguely progressive Council prevented that, but it could not prevent the complete disfunctionality of the organisation. Nothing demonstrated that better than the dumping of the plan to shut down Auckland passenger rail services for months on end with no prior preparation, and in the last week of the Local Government campaign. AT deserves everything Wayne Brown says he will do to them – it could not possibly make them worse.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 22.1.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 9:10 am

          Its partial closures of some lines while , you know, they rip up the track bed and rails and replace them.
          ‘From Monday 16 January 2023 until late March 2023:
          “The Onehunga Line will be closed.
          Trains will not run on the Southern Line between Ōtāhuhu and Britomart.
          Southern Line trains will continue to run to and from Britomart using the Eastern Line.”

          Thats only 2 months !

          As AT doesnt control the rail infrastructure – or pay for it- I dont see it as coming from them

          I live near western rail line and it was closed for ages to major upgrade about 15 years back

          • Belladonna 22.1.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 11:35 am

            In addition to your quoted short term shutdown of Onehunga. Eastern line – 9 months; Southern part of the Southern line until the end of 2024. Western line starting in 2025 (no end date given, but can't see it will be significantly shorter than Southern – so 12 months or so). So, minimum of 3 years of very significant disruption to rail services across Auckland.

            The Southern Line between Ōtāhuhu and Newmarket – including the Onehunga Line – will be closed from January until March. Then from March till December, the Eastern Line will be out of action.

            The Southern Line from Pukekohe to Papakura will be closed until the end of 2024, and that's when work will likely begin on the Western Line.

            And that's just the announcements – we all know that infrastructure projects almost always run over time.

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/10/how-train-closures-in-2023-could-unravel-auckland-s-public-transport-progress.html

            AT have announced that they're proposing buses to fill the gap. Given that we're already seeing thousands of buses a week cancelled because of driver shortages – most commentators feel this is …. unlikely … to happen.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/129672515/auckland-bus-disruption-driver-shortage-causing-record-cancellations

            NB: driver shortage is mostly not Covid now. Being a bus driver isn't as attractive in terms of pay and conditions as other jobs – drivers are voting with their feet (more power to them); so all of the bus companies have critical shortages – and seem to be unwilling to do anything about it, other than cancel services.

            "We're currently assessing those numbers – how many buses will be available. But probably, the number of buses won't be the challenge. The biggest challenge is our bus drivers," Auckland Transport Group Manager Metro Services Darek Koper told Newshub.

            Passengers Newshub spoke to weren't convinced, one saying: "I don't trust Auckland Transport to provide enough buses for people."

            Adriaansen says Auckland Transport has a lot of convincing to do.

            "There's even a problem of where we would put all those buses when they arrive into the city, so this is something that needs a lot of work."

            [Quote from first linked article]

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 22.1.1.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 11:59 am

              How do you propose we do major upgrades of tracks without shutting the services over sections for a time. There has been smaller changes for years over weekends, holidays and sometimes nights.

              I friend I know uses the rail to travel from West Auckland to Pukekohe every few months , mostly weekends. Interuptions are a constant espeacially on Southern line . In some ways going south on the eastern line is a better option than off and on again railbuses

              I understand NY subway is doing the same

              • Belladonna …
                9 October 2022 at 12:13 pm

                I would have proposed doing it in 2021 – when there was little if any usage of the train network (because of Auckland lockdowns). And substantial excess bus capacity for the same reason.

                However, I'm glad you now realize that we are talking about a very significant shutdown of a large amount of the rail network over a period of years. Not, your initial quote of 3 months over summer.

                I've yet to see an external party doing an extensive review of the real need – and why it can't be spread out over a longer period with partial services. As you point out, that's what rail passengers are currently used to.

                Here's some coverage on an explicitly pro-public transport blog

                https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2022/10/06/auckland-derailed-part-2/

                • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                  9 October 2022 at 12:43 pm

                  So Zero Carbon infrastructure work has to be zero effects on the users ?

                  Maybe you have heard of NIMBYs? Seems to include rail infrastructure as well.

                  'Carrying out significant work like this on a live network that operates 24/7 is extremely difficult. For example, if we were to do this work in our current evening and weekend maintenance windows, it would take almost two decades to complete.'

                  Its Kiwirail project and funding. So wishful thinking that our new overlord Brown can have much effect beyond his own fief of AT

                  • Belladonna …
                    9 October 2022 at 1:06 pm

                    The 'own fief of AT' (in your words) – was what Visubversa was discussing – with their (entirely justified) comment that AT dumped this in the media one week out from an election.

                    Which, if it wasn't a politically motivated act, shows zero understanding of and care for public policy and the electoral process.

                    Now, it may have had no impact on the result (how would we ever know). But it certainly undermined a key plank of Collins' platform – free public transport. What's the point of it being free- if it's shut down?

                    Apparently, AT have known this was going to happen for months – so why the choice to release to the media one-week-out from a local body election?

                    If you believe KiwiRail that there is no choice other than long-term shut-downs, (once again – 3 years rather than your initial figure of 3 months) then fine. Personally, I'd prefer to see some options and alternatives.

                    However, it's the political timing that is being commented on.

                    • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                      9 October 2022 at 3:25 pm

                      Just asking , do you use the trains ?

                      everyday

                      now and then

                      never

                      Theres been continuous series shutdowns of various kinds and lengths of time for nearly 10 years This is just another series for sensible reasons that many have had to put up with already ( which is why Im asking how much you use the trains)

                      Anyway Collins free public transport offer was aspirational not something he can order for say next year onwards
                      And Collins was so far behind in vote count that it couldnt have any impact on the result.
                      Anyway AT would love more people to use public transport and in principle be more aligned to Collins than Brown.

                      The deliberate political claim , to me, smacks of desperation without any deeper thinking

                  • Belladonna …
                    9 October 2022 at 3:38 pm

                    Train usage? Almost never. I live on the North Shore. We have no train service – and aren't likely to have one in the next 30 years – based on current progress – or ever (unless there is significant change to harbour crossings to accommodate rail).

                    Do I use buses? Yes. Did I use trains extensively when living overseas? Yes.

                    Is any of this relevant to the points being raised? No.

                    Is it possible for you to discuss the issues raised? Apparently not.

                    • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                      10 October 2022 at 8:28 am

                      I have discussed the issue in my comments .

                      Most of the blame on AT is wrong ( its a Kiwirail project), the main line isnt been shutdown for 2 years ( less than 2 months- but a staged work which will move around the train lines)

                      The iodea that it was political and that it affected Collins enough to make a difference in vote is quite absurd.

                      But good to see the train shutdowns dont affect you – nor me . Im lucky a bustop is just 1 min away

                • Ad …
                  9 October 2022 at 6:18 pm

                  No workers were available to do the work. I know.

                  • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                    10 October 2022 at 8:31 am

                    Yet its starting in 3 -4 months . Its like your claim of Brown spending 'millions'….. Doesnt match the facts

  23. Christopher Randal 23
    8 October 2022 at 9:32 pm

    If we have a minimum age of 18, should we perhaps have a maximum age of (say) 60?

    • weka 23.1
      8 October 2022 at 9:33 pm

      why?

      • Christopher Randal 23.1.1
        9 October 2022 at 9:32 am

        So that we get politicians who are more representative of the people they serve.

        • weka 23.1.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 9:39 am

          I've got a better idea, let's take the vote off men for a decade. Maybe they can still stand for office, but only females can vote. Let's see how fast we sort out the serious issues like climate, poverty, housing, transition.

          • Planet Earth 23.1.1.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 12:23 pm

            “what evidence is there that that would work? The people that vote are still going to vote conservatively.”

            If you want young people, women, Māori, ethnicities and so on represented, the solution is to change the system, not disenfranchise men.

            • weka 23.1.1.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 1:00 pm

              I wasn't talking about broad representation, I was suggesting that taking power off men for a while would solve a number of problems that we seem incapable or or unwilling to change in other ways. Here I am talking about the crises I named above, which are are failing at dismally.

              However, if only females could vote, I would expect one result from that would be better representation. Because women generally organise for the collective rather than individual power*. Having women only voting would break the current hegemony which vests power in the hands of wealthier, Pākehā men and others who will play the game like them**. And those men then protect their power and won’t share it.

              (*yes, yes #noallwomen)

              (*yes, yes #notallmen)

              • Planet Earth …
                9 October 2022 at 3:35 pm

                So “taking the vote off men for a decade” (i.e. 50% of the voting population) would “result in better representation”? Colour me very dubious.

                • weka …
                  9 October 2022 at 3:41 pm

                  the first thing women will do is look at how to organise differently. And because women tend to look after everyone, they will look after everyone. Men can just sit down for a bit, and when they come back things will be different.

                  If you think I am wrong, make your argument. I know it's challenging and I'm not in favour of disenfranchisement generally. But I am sick of the idea that old people are the problem (or young people) instead of looking at the system, and the biggest impediment it system change is men not sharing power.

                  • Planet Earth …
                    9 October 2022 at 8:28 pm

                    But isn’t the problem that older Pakeha men aren’t sharing power? Maybe we should just disenfranchise them?

                    • weka …
                      9 October 2022 at 9:35 pm

                      if you change your email address (or make a typo) the system treats you as a new commenter and holds your comment back for manual release. Also changes the colour of your avatar.

                  • Planet Earth …
                    9 October 2022 at 9:23 pm

                    But isn’t the problem more specifically older Pakeha men not sharing power? Why don’t we just disenfranchise them for a decade?

                    • weka …
                      9 October 2022 at 9:33 pm

                      No, I think it's men generally. The domination system just treats older, wealthier Pākehā men more preferentially. Until they get to a certain age and then they're toast (hence the boomer meme and calls to take the vote off them).

                      I'm not saying there is something wrong with men, I tend to think it's more to do with how men are socialised. But we've had decades now of asking men to share power, and most won't. Some do, openly. Some do in limited ways. But we're not making progress on the stuff that matters most.

                    • Planet Earth []
                      9 October 2022 at 10:01 pm

                      Do you propose this decade of disenfranchisement for parliamentary elections only? Local body elections? Club committees?

                    • weka …
                      9 October 2022 at 10:15 pm

                      local and central govt should do it.

                    • Planet Earth []
                      9 October 2022 at 10:19 pm

                      OK thanks

                • weka …
                  9 October 2022 at 11:36 pm

                  It's just ideas to open up new ways of considering what is happening and what we might do.

              • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                9 October 2022 at 3:44 pm

                7 of the 20 councillors elected yesterday are women. ( It was 9 in last council)

                Some of them are dinosaurs like Christine Fletcher.

                The proposition that 'electing women 'will change things , isnt borne out by the 9 out 20 in last council ( they dont vote as a bloc of course)

                • weka …
                  9 October 2022 at 4:21 pm

                  that's the neoliberal analysis, based in thinking about individuals rather than class. And that individuals are basically the same ('women are just as bad as men'), there is no class experience.

                  It belies the reality that in the domination system that we currently use, some women can gain some power and the system will let them so long as they play the old boys game properly. Hence Margaret Thatcher gets a lot of power, and women like Marilyn Waring get out early.

                  I didn't say electing women. I said removing men's vote. I'm in two minds if men should still stand or not.

                  And I explained quite clearly what women (not individual females) do generally when they get together. They organise differently from men.

                  • weka …
                    9 October 2022 at 4:24 pm

                    Speaking of Waring, I saw her give a public talk once, many years ago but still many years after she left parliament. She talked about the women that were there in the early days like Shipley and Clark. And how there is a point where you make a choice, either to be changed by the system or to walk away and keep who you are.

                    My point here is that we talk about system change, but we seem incapable of doing what is needed. Climate will break the current system eventually. I'm playing with ideas here, so that we can see that the problem is the system based in domination, and that there are other ways to break that than just waiting until civilisation collapses.

                  • Ad …
                    9 October 2022 at 6:13 pm

                    Horseshit.

                    Women are at least as conservative as man if not moreso.

                    Seen it in councils and Parliament so often.

                    Classic case small c conservative roadblock: Ardern. Privatized more social housing than Shipley.

                    • weka …
                      9 October 2022 at 6:16 pm

                      Like I said, that's the neolib analysis that can't see class or anything outside of itself. Of course women who manage to gain power in the system do stuff that the system wants, that's the whole point of the system. It will let in the good players and keep out the rest. We saw that yesterday. Time to break the system. Or at least its stranglehold.

                    • weka …
                      9 October 2022 at 6:20 pm

                      also, conservative women also care about the collective. This is why rural communities are some of the few places that function as community. It's not a left/right thing

              • Ad …
                9 October 2022 at 6:16 pm

                Essentialist coolaid.

                • weka …
                  9 October 2022 at 6:34 pm

                  If by that you mean do I believe that men and women have some* different characteristics based in biology, then yes I do. Women have specific cascades of hormones during pregnancy, labour, birth and lactation that ensure that, at the species level, our vulnerable young get well cared for via bonding and connection. Men don't have that. Men have their own set of processes arising from their biology and how they connect with babies. It's not a good/bad thing.

                  In politics essentialism usually means that because women give birth they should give birth. That's the paradigm of the domination system, which I is obviously not what I am talking about.

                  The idea that women and men are the same, is a form of nature denialism that leads ultimately to the idea that mothers aren't needed and we can eventually just grow babies in labs. Or that mothers aren't needed other than for pregnancy and birth, and anyone can just raise babies.

                  The idea that women have ways of organising at a class level distinct from men isn't only biological though, it's also cultural. Humans have been reproducing for a long time within the biology I describe above, and as part of that they evolved culture. Women's culture is a thing within that. Women will always organise around the centrality of caring for others. Yes, yes #notall women, but it is something that happens as a generalisation.

                  *women and men also share a lot of biology, so let's not fall into a false binary.

        • weka 23.1.1.2
          9 October 2022 at 9:41 am

          what evidence is there that that would work? The people that vote are still going to vote conservatively.

          If you want young people, women, Māori, ethnicities and so on represented, the solution is to change the system, not disenfranchise older people.

          • Ghostwhowalksnz 23.1.1.2.1
            9 October 2022 at 12:05 pm

            Yes. In my local board its a diverse group elected.

            However those who want to exclude the 50+ group dont realise they are twice the numbers of the 18-39 group even before you consider the actual voting strengths.

            Im incredulous that some want a Trumpian solution of voter restrictions rather than the obvious Australian approach of compulsory voting . However the 50+ will still be the majority . Its called democracy , not rule by age age cohort

    • Barfly 23.2
      9 October 2022 at 8:27 am

      Heh getting a bit "Logan's Run" methinks

    • swordfish 23.3
      9 October 2022 at 4:17 pm

      If we have a minimum age of 18, should we perhaps have a maximum age of (say) 60?

      Do fuck off.

      It's become increasingly clear that the self-absorbed denizens of Wokedom (& their opportunistic fellow-travellers) don’t have a democratic bone in their collective body. Narcissistic elitist authoritarians determined to get their way by any means necessary … and always keen on viciously scapegoating vulnerable demographics, including the elderly.

      Total perversion of core Social Democratic principles. And rank hypocrisy from a cultish cadre that aggressively advertises its alleged “uniquely-refined moral sensibilities”. (LOL)

  24. Robert Guyton 24
    9 October 2022 at 10:43 am

    "Clyde Graf took one of two Waipā-King Country seats on the Waikato Regional Council. The anti-1080 activist, who is also a convicted bank robber, frequently shares disinformation about the Covid-19 vaccine on social media."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/130114188/fewer-than-a-dozen-disinformation-candidates-elected-to-councils

  25. AB 25
    9 October 2022 at 11:15 am

    Typical thought-free nonsense from Jessica Mutch-McKay on Q&A this morning – TV1. (Here if you really want to identify yourself by creating an account.) She was asserting two contradictory things about the local body election results. In effect that:

    • it was a rejection of the status quo/a desire for change
    • it was a rejection of the change posed by 3 Waters

    Ahem. Only certain types of change are being rejected then. In effect it's a rejection of any departure from a status quo where local business and farming elites had control of water via a local body election system that embedded their control with sub-45% turnouts. In any case, Labour has lost the propaganda war on 3-Waters – their lack of media ownership power being starkly exposed by this. They will have to back down in some form or other.

    • weka 25.1
      9 October 2022 at 11:42 am

      many people in small rural areas intuitively know the dangers in centralising power away from locals. Labour chose a powergrabbing model, that wasn't the only way to resolve the problem. Don't know what they thought would happen but I suspect it's a sign that they're very disconnected from how smaller communities function.

      Sustainable design by definition has to take into account the areas that are being designed. Three waters is a threat to democracy. It's not the only threat, and it's not the only issue with this election, but progressives who argue that people against three waters are all bigots or greedy farmers are sealing all our fates. Stop treating people as if they should all believe what you do, and start listening to their concerns.

      • AB 25.1.1
        9 October 2022 at 12:49 pm

        I don't necessarily favour centralisation either – it's too easy to sell off, too susceptible to capture by a managerial class and too prone to ignore the local. But local communities actually need to be functional for local control to work well in the interests of everybody. When we see this level of disengagement with local body politics, it's absolutely clear who will drive decision-making at the local level – people with economic power and interests. It will likely be worse than centralisation in terms of outcomes for the environment and for the hope of a widely distributed community wealth-building. Nor do I believe that all people opposed to 3 Waters are greedy bigots. They are mostly rational economic actors in a deadly serious game of survival.

        If Labour had to choose something to die in a ditch over – it should never have been this.

        • weka 25.1.1.1
          9 October 2022 at 12:55 pm

          I hope they find a way of changing their approach. But I doubt it will be towards powersharing and democratic engagement.

      • Visubversa 25.1.2
        9 October 2022 at 1:00 pm

        I don't see any reason why people would object to Government paying to upgrade and maintain their water services. The delayed maintenance bills for small Councils are crippling. People are not saying – "I want more environmental degradation, more waterborne diseases and more "boil water" notices. And I want to pay more rates to keep old infrastructure going'" No, they are just repeating lies they are told about "Maori taking OUR water" or "Government telling us what to do".

        • weka 25.1.2.1
          9 October 2022 at 1:05 pm

          ok, then have a system where central government pays for it, but decisions stay locally.

          The problem with your argument there is it's based on a premise of Three Waters or status quo, and it ignores that we could have had any number of models presented, or Labour could have worked with councils and locals to figure out the best solutions. But it didn't, because it believes that it's in charge. It's a big blindspot and it's antidemocratic.

          I'm pro co-governance. It's a piece of liberal dickheadery to pretend that people against Three Waters are primarily racist (although racism is certainly a factor for some).

          As for the government telling us what to do, we will see next year how many people want Labour to the the ones doing the telling.

          • Graeme 25.1.2.1.1
            9 October 2022 at 6:18 pm

            We'd just get a continuation of what happens, or more doesn't happen, now with small councils being shafted by consultants to build infrastructure that works really well for the consultant and contractor's bottom line, but a piece of shit fr the ratepayers.

            It's bad enough just with ratepayers money, councillors who would rather be spending the money on something above ground and ratepayers demanding the cheapest option. Stick a good wodge of government funding in there and the gravy train will go off on steroids.

            • weka 25.1.2.1.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 6:36 pm

              that's a design issue (and a political one). TINA is not a good argument here. There are other ways we could do this. Labour could have led on this instead of imposing something that may well lose them the next election.

              • Graeme …
                9 October 2022 at 7:25 pm

                Would be nice if these "other ways" were put out there and debated.

                But we see nothing. Is that because these other ways have been thrashed around for the past 30+ years and have been found to be worse than the status quo.

                This Government has come out with a structure that will work and deliver better water outcomes than currently occur in pretty much all cases. It's been done with roading and health, now we do it with water.

                Really the only "other way" that would come close would be a dramatic amalgamation of local bodies so we ended up three or four councils in the South Island and six or seven up north. Then we loose local representation in the subjective social community aspects where it's really needed. I don't see why we need that level of local representation in the delivery of objective services like water supply and sewage disposal. It's not like some communities elect to deliver at a higher standard to the regulated minimums, generally councils elect to deliver to the absolute minimum, or a lower standard, and then prevaricate on getting their services up to standard.

                So the Government is proposing to amalgamate the 3 waters delivery functions of Councils, with the Councils effectively owning shares in the amalgamated entities.

        • Belladonna 25.1.2.2
          9 October 2022 at 1:18 pm

          There is no plan for 'Government' (i.e. our taxes) to pay. There will be an additional water rate, applied regionally. So ratepayers in regions will fund regional waters.

          Many ratepayers (e.g. Kapiti) are saying – we've funded our own water infrastructure, so that there aren't problems – why should we be paying to fix Wellington's lack of investment over the past 50 years?

          The 3 waters entities aren't even built around watersheds and regional water supply (for heaven’s sake, one of them crosses Cook Straight) – so it's very difficult to argue that there is a commonality of interest.

          If you want to argue for National funding – then that's a shift to a tax-funded, rather than a rate-funded system. And is completely outside the current 3 Waters model.

          Personally, I believe a relationship between central and local government, similar to NZTA/local roading – would be a best of both worlds choice. Where local knowledge can be retained and used, and the heavy lifting muscle from the national body can assist with effective planning and funding.

          • ianmac 25.1.2.2.1
            9 October 2022 at 5:40 pm

            Our town had a worn out Hospital.

            Did we save heaps of millions of dollars to buy a new one so we could argue that we own our assets?

            No. Far away from Blenheim it was decided to build a new Hospital. And yay it was built using taxpayers money. From Invercargill to Timaru to Taupo to Whangarei taxpayers gladly paid for the build.

            A great Hospital it is too.

            Now about owning our 3Waters Assets.

            • Belladonna 25.1.2.2.1.1
              9 October 2022 at 6:11 pm

              Then argue that the water-related assets should be held nationally and funded through taxes. That is not what is being proposed for 3 Waters.

    • weka 25.2
      9 October 2022 at 11:43 am

      (you can use a false name and a gmail address to join TVNZ or TV3 to access content)

  27. Belladonna 27
    9 October 2022 at 6:56 pm

    [Reposted from Open mike, following a comment that it would be better here]

    And, for a complete (and rather tasteless contrast) to Nobby Clark giving thanks to Sir Tim for his years of service – here's Wayne Brown singing "Hit the road Goff" at his victory party.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/who-is-wayne-brown-meet-aucklands-new-mayor-a-banjo-playing-grandfather-from-northland/6PSSAAAAHUX6YAP6NSL2W73ZYI/?c_id=1&objectid=12557490&ref=rss

    Not exactly gracious in victory – especially as Goff had retired, rather than been defeated.

  28. observer 28
    9 October 2022 at 7:55 pm

    I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if the point has already been made, but even so it's worth highlighting.

    Decisions are local. But media coverage is (largely) national.

    Wayne Brown will make headlines over the next year, and they'll probably be bad ones. That's just who he is, how he behaves. See just the past 24 hours (cancelled media, that song, etc).

    Only a small minority of voters will be getting an Auckland rates bill. But all of them will be seeing a right wing clown on TV alienating the public with his mouth. And unlike Efeso or Phil Goff, Labour can say "that's definitely not our guy". While Luxon will spend the next year saying "Look, I don't condone … he misspoke … not a Nat …".

    Should be fun.

  29. adam 29
    9 October 2022 at 9:07 pm

    Big ups to The Māori Party, the real winners here.

    Finally working class voices heard on council – it's been a long 40 years.