Written By:
Dancer - Date published:
12:13 pm, March 11th, 2008 - 26 comments
Categories: climate change -
Tags: climate change
The ABC reports:
“Today Australia becomes an official member of the Kyoto club after the initial ratification documents were lodged with the United Nations 90 days ago.
And a new poll has found that 64 per cent of Australians support Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s act to ratify the Kyoto protocol to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
The survey of 1,200 people found 7 per cent opposed, with 29 per cent were still undecided.”
Meanwhile – those hot summer days have not just been your imagination. NIWA says it’s been the hottest summer in almost ten years, with the south of the South Island having the sunniest summer on record.
The Principal Climate Scientist at NIWA Jim Salinger says overall it was a warm and dry summer, with the Waikato experiencing half the normal rainfall (RNZ, 10 Mar 2008).
All this suggests that plans like the Climate Change bill are on the right track. And before you ask – here’s a site that will help you identify some ways of living smarter at home.
Update: For an even more international perspective: Global warming threatens to severely destabilise the planet, rendering a fifth of its population homeless, top officials say
The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.
here is another site that will be very helpful
http://www.greens.org.nz/
What rubbish linking this summer to climate change. It is because we are in a La Nina event.
The Aussies are great guzzlers of coal and gas. Wonder how this support will look when the CO2 bills start arriving
and if you meet any deniers here’s the scientists exploding the denier myths. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100
Kyoto is stupid. Look where it has got us. And Steve, I could post a million links against what you posted as well. We’d be here all day going in circles.
Why dont you report what NEWA actually said.Ths warmest summer in 9 years is due to La Nina. This global warming is absolute nonsence. It suprises me how gullible some people can be. And the Aussies will be pretty pissed off when they discover how much money Kyoto will cost them.
Dale. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100
infused. I thought you were smarter than that but sorry, I don’t bother engaging with deniers anymore, there’s so few of you left and your arguments are as bad as ever.
and if you meet any deniers here’s the scientists exploding the denier myths. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100
And not two comments later – up pops Dale! Is it really nonsense Dale? Why?
Anyone would think Im denying the holocaust. There are two sides to the science. I find the more credible supports that the changes are natural occurences. The planet has warmed and cooled since its creation. Remember in the seventies some scientisits were predicting global cooling. Al Gores movie has also been proven in a English court to contain so many incorrect statements that it should not be showen to schools.If there is one thing possetive to come from this nonsence is that people might think about the amount of pollution we create. There is plenty of information supporting the fact that CO2 is not the cause of very slight variations in global tempretures.
Rob and Steve I have just read the link you posted. Yes it sounds convincing but for each claim it makes you can easily find counter claim. There is nothing wrong with reading both sides of the argument. So why dont you give it a go?
Dale: Anyone would think Im denying the holocaust
Woh! – Over sensitive? All I said was “Is it really nonsense Dale? Why?”. How do you get from there to the holocaust?
Rob and Steve I have just read the link you posted.
Hint for next time – read the source material before commenting.
Yes it sounds convincing
It certainly does. So does this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm
and this one:
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=732
and pretty much 98% percent of the scientific literature that you can read of this topic.
There is nothing wrong with reading both sides of the argument. So why dont you give it a go?
Oh please. Can I remind you how you entered this thread: “This global warming is absolute nonsence”. Pretty balanced stuff eh. Think before you post Dale.
I’ve read tons of denier literature, it’s all bollocks. I would presume Steve and r0b have also read both ‘sides’ (if a smattering of loons and scientists on oil company payrolls really counts as a side) because that’s how you come to a well-founded opinion.
Yep thats right Sam and the US bombed their own towers.
Yeah R0b, but I remember when the scientific community were unanimous that civilisation as we know it would end at midnight on 31 December 1999. Government Departments were established. Water and canned food were stored. Microwaves were upgraded. And it was the biggest hoax ever. My 1997 microwave still works fine.
I expect global warming has occurred. Looking after the planet cannot be wrong. But I am sick of people in homespun jumpers telling me that the end is nigh for a variety of constantly changing reasons. And I will not shit on sawdust.
Well I am a loon as well as a scientist. Look at the Nasa GissTemp data, a slow but gradual cooling is occurring, not warming for the past 2year or so. Look at the Jan/Feb figures of 31 meaning 14.31 degrees. Coldest start to a new year for 18 years.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata/GLB.Ts.txt
Real pathetic that since us ‘deniers’ are so wrong you use vile terms to describe us. Why be so indignant if denial is wrong wrt Climate Change and it was totally proven.
The GW scam is another tool used by socialists to re distribute wealth.
It was also warmer in the Medievil times as well.
Sam, what denier literture have you read and on what basis is it crap?
Also where is the proof that the planet has warmed since 1998. There is none because it has’nt.
Funny how my comments await “moderation” is this blog governed from North Korea?
[lprent: You just happen to share a IP address range with some of our least favorite trolls. Sorry about the hassle. But you probably wouldn’t want to visit if they were here]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/climateexperiment/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm
CP: I’m not a chemist in training – I’m a earth scientist in my training. So I’m restraining myself here simply because you are a dumb-arse chemist.
Climate trends aren’t like looking at a chemical reactions. They don’t happen in less than a decade except at a local level or globally for volcano’s. Even those typically take multiple years to take effect across the globe if they manage to hit the stratosphere or troposphere.
Of course climate changes over time. Volcanic eruptions change it, changes in sea currents change it, solar cycles change it, ice shelfs breaking off and melting changes it, and finally and least you blowing hot air probably changes it. That has never been at issue.
What matters is decade long changes in the sea and atmospheric systems, not what happens in a couple of years. In this case you are describing patterns from the well described el nino and related effects from sea current changes. Has a known cycle, and this year and next year are at their peak.
In the log-term trend. There has been close to a doubling of CO2 in the last 100 years. Most of that comes from fossil fuels – easy to see by looking at carbon isotope levels. The oceans and biomass have been partially buffering. Various gases and particulate matter cause increased entropy in light energy towards IR. So the long term trend worldwide is for steadily rising temperature levels. Again the temperature levels are buffered mainly by oceans, ensuring long-term release.
But the buffering isn’t sufficient to remove the full effect, so we’re likely to get significant effects within my remaining lifetime.
The IPCC estimates are unlikely to happen – they are just too conservative. The effects will be sooner and bigger than they publish. That is the opinion of every active person in the area.
So as you state
I’d suggest that in this area you are a loon. Please go and read the material, take a crash course in earth sciences, and learn about the science before you start talking about “2 year” period as being anything significant.
Billy:
Overall I agree with that statement – well apart from not understanding the sawdust angle.
Global warming has occoured. It is too late to really stop the effects. What we are looking at now is what the on-going effects are for the next thousand years. The key to that is to stop increasing the rate of increase and eventually even figuring out how to drop the levels. It is a long-term project, and I detest having it as a fashion item in any decade. But it does have to be done.
At the current rate of increase, I’d expect people to have problems with breathing reflexes in the next 50 years (triggered by CO2). I’d expect widespread inundations in the next 25-30.
But that isn’t all. Why that period – a thousand years? Because that is how about the longest period that it takes the oceans to churn through the deep currents moving from the poles to the equator. For most of the last couple of centuries we’ve been feeding additional CO2 and heat into those currents. Eventually it will either release or prevent additional buffering.
It is a hell of price to expect your descendants to pay so you can have a SUV.
Ancient – doubling of CO2 in 100 years, no where near it shithead, approx 50%, 270ppm-390ppm. You are a dumb-ass rock fucker, must have a scabby cock now, put it into HCl, will get rid of the scabs and stop you multiplying.
Also it is not any warmer than 10 yers ago, it has cooled since 1998 if you want a 10 year trend, pity it co-incides with the 1998 El Nino. Look at temps in the 2000s, no real warming, pretty much flat lined.
Why was there a dip in temps from 1940-1970 with higher CO2?
You lefties are real gullible, Gorebull warming, yeah right.
CP:
Yes – but how much has the CO2 in the oceans increased over the same period. It is just another part of the volatiles, running in a long-term equilibrium with the atmosphere.
There has between 500 and 600ppm added from known fossil fuel release over the last 107 years (we’ll ignore the 19th century). The oceans appear to have buffered something like 160-200ppm as shown in the acidity level increases. The variance depends on whose volume levels you believe, and the ongoing discussion about bottom level currents CO2 takeup. Eventually that will return to the atmosphere, and bearing in mind the levels of carbonates at the seafloor and the effect of acidity on it, I’d bet that you’re going to get another release of fossiled CO2 as well.
Exactly which regions are you talking about. I’m aware oif the ill-informed tendencies to regard the europe and the US as being thw whole of the world.. but…
Yes in Europe and NE US. Disappeared after they reduced the particulate matter they were blowing out of the smokestacks. That reduced the higher atmosphere scattering that was cause upper but not lower level heating. Now if you care to look at the upper atmosphere in those areas you’ll find upwards temperature trend during the same period.
If you look at the rather spotty data worldwide for the mid-20th, and in particular in the polar areas (which are least populated and polluted and most sensitive to temperatures) you find a continuous rise in temperature after the 50’s when they started to get good records. Look at the antarctic data from the IPY in 57 onwards in the NZ geological survey data for instance.
BTW: If you want to pull mantle of science over you opinions – then expect to get challenges. Normally it is called peer review, however in this case it is simple annoyance because you haven’t bothered to look at the science.
Ok – bit much wine..
That reduced the lower atmosphere scattering, but that caused upper level heating but not lower level heating.
CP, you keep trotting out invalid arguments. Clearly you haven’t read even the basics, where they are refuted:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/mg19426041.100
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm
You may also have missed this recent international report:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier
Governments all over the world (and many individual states in America) are taking action to combat climate change. Are they all fools? Are they all bewitched by Al Gore? No CP, it’s just that they can all read the evidence which you deny.
In other news, Arctic ice has retreated so much that new shipping lanes have opened up, and there are looming international debates over newly accessible mineral, oil and fishing rights. Why is the ice melting CP?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/10/science/10arctic.html
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/arctic.html
As well as Arctic (and Antarctic) ice melt, glaciers (one of the most sensitive indicators of global warming) are receding world wide – see dramatic images here:
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html
There are plenty of other pictures on that site, CP, if you find all the long words on this subject too bothersome.
Wake up CP. This isn’t about our petty political squabbles. This is about how liveable our planet is going to be in the years ahead…
dale. Why would anyone who’s not a climate change denier also be a believer in weird 9/11 conspriarcy theories?