National – rubbish at everything except politics

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1. RedLogix 1

   7 November 2015 at 9:39 am

   The critical piece missing from this r0b is that Key has been playing the punters all his working life. He’s not just been 14 odd years in politics, but 20 years or more before that separating money from suckers. He masterful at this.

   The answer is for the left to get good at politics too. So far no-one has understood what it will take to take Key out of the game.
   • aerobubble 1.1

     7 November 2015 at 2:32 pm

     Public good are paid for by everyone and so cannot exclude anyone, said act mp in parliament. On the Nation, wealth is built on prosperity paid for by everyone so even the wealthy have to give back. Now I’ve yet to hear a Labour MP succinctly characterize anything, let alone progressive taxation. So I’m guessing the reason Key is wining and Labour continues to fail to resonate, is that Key can talk to his base clearly, that Key can attract real money to back him, and has used the talking chamber at the back of ever party that plays with notions and principles to get those hard hitting wake them up memes. Also the left have consistent failed to undermine the supporters of national whose mythology is so absolutely wrong and counter to their interests and Labours. I’m guess because neo liberals in Labour live for the days when they can be in govt claiming growth was their sides doing. it don’t work like that anymore, growth is not going to be underwritten by cheaper and cheaper oil.
2. NZJester 2

   7 November 2015 at 10:16 am

   Is it National that is actually good at politics?
   I think it is actually the money men behind the scenes making the National Party dance on their strings that are the real masters at it.
   Without them pulling the strings they are just a bunch of incompetent fools.
   • RedLogix 2.1

     7 November 2015 at 10:26 am

     Right sentiment, wrong analysis. There is nothing incompetent about John Key, at least in the areas of competency that matter to National.

     Of course I realise by our measures here he doesn’t cut mustard, but I’m not sure that this way of looking at it helps us any.
   • Paul 2.2

     7 November 2015 at 3:47 pm

     +100
3. Bill 3

   7 November 2015 at 11:22 am

   So, National runs on pap.

   Of course, if you call that ‘politics’, then the opposition is off the hook because…well rather than their political inadequacy coming under the spot-light, the claim goes up that they’re just not so good as National at the pap politics that just happens to be heavily influenced by msm.

   To clarify. When a government runs on spin/pap/propaganda, there can. be. no. fucking. excuses. for ineffective opposition. Only ineffectual opposition excuses itself by buying or selling the notion of spin/pap/propaganda as politics.
4. srylands 4

   7 November 2015 at 11:58 am

   It is the cartoon that is telling. The labels on the wreckage will strike no chord with voters. You guys are not learning.

   I could do a cartoon with a shiny rolls royce car covered in achievements.

   Lets start with the IMF’s ranking of NZ’s fiscal stratgey:

   http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1510.pdf

   Then move on to the Business Growth Agenda.

   Then the Better Public Service Results.
   • les 4.1

     7 November 2015 at 3:26 pm

     the IMF…’confessions of an economic hitman’…read it…and weep.And from your link…’…… public debt represents a deadweight burden on the economy, reducing
     both its investment potential and its growth prospects. Although the debt may have
     been incurred for good reasons, the higher the inherited stock, the poorer the economy
     (by the present value of the distortionary costs of the taxation need to service the debt).
     Efficiency dictates that the higher inherited debt and corresponding taxation, the lower
     should be public and private investment, and the slower will be output growth.
5. srylands 5

   7 November 2015 at 12:01 pm

   Oh and BTW I agree with your assessment that we should return to surplus faster. Pity that you would run screaming from the policies necessary to achieve it.
   • NZJester 5.1

     7 November 2015 at 2:49 pm

     National are always running from the policies need to return this country to a true surplus. They need to up the tax rate at the top, instead of trying to ring all the tax money out of the poor who can not afford it. Even with a higher tax rate those at the top have so many loopholes they normally end up paying a much lower tax than everyone else anyway.
   • Stuart Munro 5.2

     7 November 2015 at 11:40 pm

     Well of course under the pitiful failure that is National ‘economic management’ of course a surplus is practically undreamed of. As is real growth (ex migration and housing) above 0.3%, material progress on Bill English’s $100 billion debt black hole, much less job growth, median wage growth, quality of life growth or political systemic integrity.

     National have thus far not perpetuated themselves in government at gunpoint – and this is their only virtue. Worthless scumbags without exception. A hundred random citizens off the street would do an infinitely better job.
6. Smilin 6

   7 November 2015 at 12:47 pm

   Maintaining the Monarchy and selling the sovereignty of the nation is about all they are doing ,nothing for the majority of NZers
7. greywarshark 7

   7 November 2015 at 6:00 pm

   Now its the monarchy that gets kicked around is it? Why don’t you leave them out of it and so try to get a clear view of the real causes of our depression. When thinking of the monarchy remember the cautionary saying Be careful of what you wish for. Meaning that if you get it and it’s a stupid costly change, it’s your own fault.
   • johnm 7.1

     7 November 2015 at 6:45 pm

     The monarchy are the figure head of a hierarchical class system that is oppressive of ordinary working people. They need to be retired to their country residences never to appear again except in various ceremonies. Like War Dead ceremonies when it was 99% working class that did the fighting and dying.
     • BM 7.1.1

       7 November 2015 at 6:48 pm

       What shit. they’re one of the UK’s biggest tourist attractions.

       The Royals are a huge asset.
       • Stuart Munro 7.1.1.1

         7 November 2015 at 11:41 pm

         Yes – cheap, professional, & don’t interfere in local politics – the royal family is the opposite of Key in every respect.
       • Smilin 7.1.1.2

         8 November 2015 at 7:12 pm

         And so is Skycity ,the Americas cup ,the RWC and all the rest of it
         Tourism is ecologically dangerous to the ecosystem when youve got a death nail disease killing Kauri that no one can control
         When are we goin to wake up to reality this govt pullin the wool over our eyes harder that a cocky goin nuts at a shearers when he trying to screw every buck he can out of sheep
         Back to the Clearances everyone we are being taken over by monarchist bastards ,all this NP is so far up their snotty upperclass BS is a wonder we arent drowning in it ,or are we ?
         The wealth of the nation belongs to the people who live here not in China UK or wherever, its called sovereignty .
         And havin a bunch of egocentric lyin selfserving BS artists running the country to their design not that of the people is the pits mate
     • greywarshark 7.1.2

       7 November 2015 at 8:09 pm

       Pure propaganda johnm.

       The Royals are leaders of the country, and every leader of a country has disadvantages. I am happy that no groups are fighting for ultimate power over NZ as in a president/republic.

       We have enough trouble with our electables and they seem to have managed to organise power to themselves. We can’t afford any other madmen and women striving for more. Think of disturbing an ants nest.

       And we have classism rife already in NZ. We didn’t have that till the bloody politicians that had subverted Labour knifed our democracy. Nothing to do with royalty, that. We don’t want to throw away the valuable situation of having a ruling power off-shore that largely stays out of politics.
8. johnm 8

   7 November 2015 at 6:19 pm

   National are Rubbish and so are the kiwis who vote this rubbish into power. The trouble is by the time they’re gone the country will be stuffed even more.
9. Daniel Cale 9

   8 November 2015 at 11:41 am

   You’re scraping the barrel when you blame any government for the failures of Auckland council. And while we’re at it, I’ll take the ‘rubbish’ that is low interest rates, low inflation, post recession growth, sustained welfare through recession, record exports, record migration home…
   • Stuart Munro 9.1

     8 November 2015 at 12:54 pm

     Then you’re a fool.

     Low interest rates are global – nothing to do with this useless government – except that ours still remain higher than every other country’s – the New Zealand surcharge.

     Migration home is retreat from the retrenching employer economies – no-one wants to come back to NZ – there are no jobs.
   • KJT 9.2

     8 November 2015 at 2:06 pm

     Who designed the “Super City and the “business management” form of local Government, and then foisted it on Aucklanders against their wishes..

     Of course it was designed to transfer Auckland’s income earning assets to National’s mates. Only prevented because Aucklanders had enough sense not to vote for Banks.

     In which case Auckland would have had heaps of funding to fatten up the assets for sale to the thieves.

     As it is, the Government has been starving Auckland of funds, for punishment, for opposing asset thefts (Sorry, sales).
     • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1

       8 November 2015 at 2:21 pm

       +1
10. Daniel Cale 10

    8 November 2015 at 1:38 pm

    “Low interest rates are global ”

    So is high unemployment.

    “Migration home is retreat from the retrenching employer economies”

    You mean like Australia, Great Britain, the US??? Migration to NZ to vote of confidence in our country over others. The economy is a part of that. Everyone wants to come to NZ precisely because there ARE jobs.

    When assessing economic performance it is necessary to consider the prevailing conditions, locally and globally. By most measures we are doing well. That some seem not to want to be a part of that is sad. For them.
    • KJT 10.1

      8 November 2015 at 2:07 pm

      What Jobs?
      They come back to New Zealand because they cannot get welfare in Australia. Get it right.
      • Daniel Cale 10.1.1

        8 November 2015 at 5:16 pm

        “What jobs”

        There are plenty of jobs. We have more people employed in NZ than at any other time in our history.

        “They come back to New Zealand because they cannot get welfare in Australia. Get it right.”

        How do you know that? What about those returning from the other countries I mentioned, or new immigrants?

        You’re simply repeating spin that doesn’t have any factual basis.
        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1

          8 November 2015 at 5:24 pm

          Unemployment at 6% and tipped to go to 7% next year.

          Wingnuts often claim that the unemployed are lazy. They never say what it is about the National Party that always generates more laziness every single time they form a government.

          Look! A flag!
          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.1

            8 November 2015 at 6:30 pm

            +1
          • Daniel Cale 10.1.1.1.2

            9 November 2015 at 12:40 pm

            I never claimed the unemployed are lazy. There are some people who genuinely seek employment but are restricted by their education, training etc. I genuinely feel for those people and have no problem with society helping them up. But it would be naieve to suggest everyone drawing a benefit is doing so with noble intentions. Many, and I mean many, rort the system for all it’s worth, and I for one am glad of the welfare reforms instigated by national.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1.2.1

              9 November 2015 at 12:43 pm

              Danny’s got another plagiarised pack of lies. This time it’s about beneficiaries.
            • KJT 10.1.1.1.2.2

              9 November 2015 at 1:55 pm

              http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/02/ten-myths-about-welfare/

              “The history of the last ten years in particular shows that when jobs exist, people work. Conversely, no amount of self-motivation by a solo parent will create a job at her local supermarket when they are laying off staff.

              It is a very odd situation. The same politicians who have been unable to manage an economy so that it employs people, are now blaming people for not finding jobs that do not exist”.

              How about some reading? Parrot!

              Funny how thousands more people have suddenly got lazy since 1984.
        • McFlock 10.1.1.2

          8 November 2015 at 5:27 pm

          “We have more people employed in NZ than at any other time in our history.”

          We also have more unemployed and underemployed people in NZ than at any other time on record, you numpty. Way to spin like a moron, though…
          • Daniel Cale 10.1.1.2.1

            9 November 2015 at 12:44 pm

            We have a higher population, record re-migration…these factors will ultimately cycle into growth and more jobs. Oh, and by the way, the unemployment rate has been far higher historically than it is today. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/.

            Today’s rate compares favourably with many of our trading partners. But that takes some understanding of economics to absorb eh?
            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.2.1.1

              9 November 2015 at 12:48 pm

              the unemployment rate has been far higher historically than it is today.

              Only under National. But that takes some understanding of life on Earth to absorb eh.
            • McFlock 10.1.1.2.1.2

              9 November 2015 at 1:50 pm

              you might want to post a relevant link, dipshit.
            • KJT 10.1.1.2.1.3

              9 November 2015 at 5:57 pm

              Immigration does not automatically recycle into more growth, and or, higher per capita incomes.

              Even when it does increase average per capita incomes for a period,, as we can see in New Zealand it is very unevenly spread.

              In fact over a certain level the demand on infrastructure and the rest of the people in the country exceeds the benefits.

              Auckland House prices and the pressure on roads, health care and reticulation systems suggests we have already exceeded the level, where benefits of increased immigration, outweigh the disadvantages.

              https://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/research/labour-supply-gdp-2010-2050.pdf

              The real unemployment rate is conveniently concealed by how this Government defines employment. The same job recycled through McD’s every 89 days is not! 6 new jobs a year.
        • Stuart Munro 10.1.1.3

          8 November 2015 at 8:16 pm

          Fantasy. By redefining jobs as one hour a week and increasing beneficiary harassment to the point where Winz employees face a real threat of murder in the workplace, and suicide is 600 per annum, this utterly worthless government gets to pretend unemployment is 6% or so. But the real rate is closer to 20%.

          This government lies and lies and lies. It doesn’t govern.
          • Gangnam Style 10.1.1.3.1

            9 November 2015 at 5:35 am

            “where Winz employees face a real threat of murder in the workplace” & guarded by contractors on zero hours & terrible pay rates, seems a set up to another disaster to me.
    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      8 November 2015 at 2:20 pm

      Everyone wants to come to NZ precisely because there ARE jobs.

      So, in your mind a decrease employment and an increase unemployment means that there’s jobs?

      Yeah, reality tells us otherwise.

      By most measures we are doing well.

      Actually, by most measures we’re fucked and that is always what happens after National has been the government. They’re really, really bad at managing the economy and the only people who become better off are the people who are the recipients of National’s crony capitalism.
      • Daniel Cale 10.2.1

        8 November 2015 at 5:22 pm

        “So, in your mind a decrease employment and an increase unemployment means that there’s jobs?”

        Of course there are jobs. Employment is not a static data set. The increase in unemployment was .01%, 1 in 1,000! We have 94% employment in NZ, a statistic that compares favourably with international data.

        “Actually, by most measures we’re fucked and that is always what happens after National has been the government.”

        We have 30+ years of mixed market economics that has made this country the envy of the world. And this government has delivered a growing economy with low interest rates, low inflation, job growth and higher net incomes. Your bitter narrative is so out of touch with what most NZ’er experience, and that’s reflected in the popularity of this government and it’s policies.
        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2.1.1

          8 November 2015 at 5:27 pm

          Having higher expectations than 6% unemployment is perfectly understandable given the Left’s superior track record. Job growth has not matched population growth these last seven years.

          You need better lies, Danny.
          • Daniel Cale 10.2.1.1.1

            9 November 2015 at 12:46 pm

            For much of these last 7 years NZ had to work through a GFC, preceded by a recession brought on by the mistakes of the tail of the last labour government. Compare NZ’s unemployment rate with our trading partners…you’l see we faired very well.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2.1.1.1.1

              9 November 2015 at 12:51 pm

              Who’s been spoonfeeding poor Danny all these tired zombie lies?

              Who was it who said “this is the rainy day the government has been saving up for” and when? Someone hold poor Danny’s hand while he finds out the answer 😆
        • McFlock 10.2.1.2

          8 November 2015 at 5:36 pm

          lol

          This government has the support of one third of registered voters.
          The rest either don’t want it or don’t even want any part of the system that made it.
        • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.3

          8 November 2015 at 6:29 pm

          We have 30+ years of mixed market economics that has made this country the envy of the world.

          No, we’ve had 30+ years of shear bloody capitalism which has left us with more poverty and a few people getting very, very rich for doing nothing. Now, I’m sure that a few people (mostly financiers and other crooks) are envious of that but it’s not doing our nation any good.
          • Daniel Cale 10.2.1.3.1

            9 November 2015 at 12:48 pm

            We haven’t ever seen ‘sheer bloody capitalism’ in this country. Ever. We have a mixed market economy, with significant government intervention (in fact too much in my opinion). We also have a gloablly competitive economy and an enriched population as a result.
            • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.3.1.1

              9 November 2015 at 2:04 pm

              We haven’t ever seen ‘sheer bloody capitalism’ in this country. Ever.

              It’s what caused the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Since the 1980s our governments have been dismantling the ‘mixed economy’ by selling state assets.

              We also have a gloablly competitive economy and an enriched population as a result.

              No we don’t. We have a Banana Republic economy where a few people do really well and control everything for their own benefit and everyone else gets ever deeper into poverty. As you would know if you ever bothered to look at the actual stats rather than believing the lies that National tells you.
        • Stuart Munro 10.2.1.4

          8 November 2015 at 8:25 pm

          Ok superman – if we’re doing so well why haven’t balance of payments broken even in thirty years?

          Envy of the world? More like the Pacific’s economic dunce. A basket case economy with a government living in the past, when our easy market access allowed us a decent living in spite of an incredibly lazy and inept political class.

          No growth, no jobs, no plans except stealing public assets – this is a kleptocracy – the very opposite of the well run country that 70 years ago inspired Karl Popper to write The Open Society and Its Enemies. We have become the kind of Kafkaesque hell hole he was escaping.
          • Daniel Cale 10.2.1.4.1

            9 November 2015 at 1:01 pm

            I suspect we don’t live in the same country, or that you don’t understand how a modern economy works, so here are some facts.

            1. This shows the rapid rate of job recovery after the global recession of the late 1980’s: http://employment.govt.nz/publications/discussion-papers/recovery-in-employment/.
            2. I really suggest you read this http://siteresources.worldbank.org/ECAEXT/Resources/258598-1284061150155/7383639-1323888814015/8319788-1324485944855/05_newzealand.pdf.
            “In the past two decades New Zealand, a country of 4 million people, generated around 500,000 jobs.” The data’s older than I would prefer, but it is comprehensive. And to what does the world bank credit this growth? Deregulation of the labour market, including enterprise level labour arrangements, and the liberalisation of the economy.

            I realise many on the left hanker for the protectionism of muldoonism, but that experiment failed, just like the soviet union. I also get where you’re coming from with this. The 1/1000 increase in unemployment was so small it has smashed Labour’s narrative at their annual conference. I get it, I really do. But it’s time for the left to face facts.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2.1.4.1.1

              9 November 2015 at 1:08 pm

              Earth to wingnut: the Left doesn’t hanker for a return to Muldoonism, because he was from the National Party.

              You really are a little bit out of your depth here Danny: Lab5 brought with it the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s. Bill English, by comparison, earned the moniker “Double Dipton” for his recessions as well as his housing rort.

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