New report on GCSB spying powers

28 comments on “New report on GCSB spying powers ”

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1. Chooky 1

   9 March 2016 at 3:22 pm

   Well Key would want Labour’s support for spying on New Zealanders wouldn’t he?

   …and Labour will probably give it to him imo
   • Puckish Rogue 1.1

     9 March 2016 at 3:52 pm

     Of course they will otherwise they’d be saying that Sir Michael Cullen doesn’t know what hes talking about

     Good politics John Key
     • Chooky 1.1.1

       9 March 2016 at 4:37 pm

       can I wave the flag to that?
     • Chooky 1.1.2

       9 March 2016 at 6:31 pm

       Sir Michael Cullen interviewed on John Campbell

       ‘Bill ‘confusing’ on GCSB’s powers, says Sir Michael Cullen’

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201792554/bill-'confusing'-on-gcsb's-powers,-says-sir-michael-cullen

       “Sir Michael Cullen says the Government’s 2013 Amendment Bill was unclear about the GCSB’s powers to intercept the private communications of New Zealanders.”

       ‘GCSB given broader power to monitor New Zealanders’

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201792553/gcsb-given-broader-power-to-monitor-new-zealanders

       “A review of New Zealand spy agencies has found the SIS and the GCSB should operate under one law, and, where appropriate, carry out surveillance on New Zealanders.”
2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

   9 March 2016 at 3:44 pm

   Spying is warfare. Admittedly its aim is to reduce violence, and it is nonetheless an art, and an act, of war.

   What do we call it when military personnel are deployed against civilians? Oh, yeah, that’s right: a war crime.

   The NZ Police have wide-ranging surveillance powers. They are – at least nominally – independent. This recommendation effectively hands Police powers to politicians.

   Well, the National Party has already smashed most of the furniture; looks like they want to put more resources into undermining the foundations.
   • saveNZ 2.1

     10 March 2016 at 7:36 am

     +1 OAB
3. Macro 3

   9 March 2016 at 4:49 pm

   Labour are as spineless as ever. Cullen and Reddy need their heads read! What a travesty of a report! Talk about 1984.
   Next we will have the Ministry of Truth. Oh yeah! we have that already – it’s called the Department of PM and Cabinet (and gets bigger by the day).
   • weka 3.1

     9 March 2016 at 5:03 pm

     I liked this bit, “We are not proposing a vast extension of power…it is a clarification”

     And how they tried to justify a whole bunch of stuff with the underlying meme of ‘you should trust us’. How hard would it be to give some examples of what they think the dangers are? Saying ‘we need to spy on you because a NZer might be kidnapped one day’ is infantalising a population that is quite capable of undertanding complex detail.
     • miravox 3.1.1

       9 March 2016 at 8:55 pm

       ‘We are not proposing a vast extension of power…it is a clarification’

       if this sentence had omitted the word ‘vast’ it wouldn’t be so bad.
   • saveNZ 3.2

     10 March 2016 at 7:37 am

     +1 Macro – Love it…. ministry of truth…
4. Chooky 4

   9 March 2016 at 6:27 pm

   Nicky Hager talking to John Campbell on Checkpoint

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201792566/nicky-hager-on-review-of-nz-spy-agencies

   “Investigative journalist Nicky Hager is the author of “Secret Power” and collaborated with various media to publish stories based on files taken by US whistleblower Edward Snowden from the US National Security Agency.”
   • saveNZ 4.1

     10 March 2016 at 7:47 am

     Great link Chooky.
     GCSB can now legally spy on Kiwis and collect their metadata.

     And National can claim by association of Cullen – Labour wants it too.
5. Descendant Of Sssmith 5

   9 March 2016 at 6:35 pm

   I remember when we used to look at both the fascist and communist countries that surveilled their own citizens with disdain.

   We now want to be like them.

   How far we have fallen, how low we have sunk.

   All done with the compliance of an aging and fearful population who don’t wish to reap what they have sown and a complicit foreign voting base imported on the basis of their wealth and conservatism.

   There’s not many of the things that were valued when I was growing up left:

   1. The right to freely withdraw labour
   2. State housing for life
   3. 8 hour working day, 40 hour working week
   4. Universal Family Benefit
   5. Unarmed police
   6. Near full employment
   7. Rail across the width and breadth of NZ
   8. Cross employer wage bargaining
   9. Free education
   10 Independent religious schools standing and falling on their own feet
   11. Secular state education
   12. Government employment for those who were unwell or impaired in some way
   13. Regional development
   14 Decent benefit rates
   15 Rural hospitals
   16 Integrated health system
   17 Dental nurses in schools
   18. School swimming pools
   19. After school adult education
   20. Manufacturing

   Universal Super is still there though – in fact it’s even more generous than when I was growing up and yet the people who benefited the most from all of the above don’t even pay enough tax to sustain it – at the height of their economic earning power.
   • weka 5.1

     9 March 2016 at 9:21 pm

     Good comment Sssmith, it would make a good guest post.

     21. Affordable private housing

     (Universal Super is now denied to half a decade of people.)
     • Descendant Of Sssmith 5.1.1

       9 March 2016 at 11:07 pm

       (Universal Super is now denied to half a decade of people.)

       Aye that it is. That of course adds to the pool of unemployed – just like many sole parents are now hidden in the Job Seeker numbers.

       Maori with their lower life expectancy were particularly disadvantaged by that change.
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         9 March 2016 at 11:19 pm

         I came across this before.

         http://thestandard.org.nz/delegates-vote-down-the-nz-super-age-increase/#comment-719114

         It’s an old conversation about how to make Super fair for groups of people disadvantaged in various ways and who die young. Someone suggested this,

         Perhaps where people die young, the superannuation that they missed out on could be paid into their estate.

         Of course if we could afford* to do that we could afford to pay Super from an earlier age, but there is something about the intergenerational support and potential benefits that I really like. It seems more genuinely universal too.

         *choose to prioritise.
   • saveNZ 5.2

     10 March 2016 at 7:39 am

     +1 DOS
   • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 5.3

     10 March 2016 at 9:06 am

     …a complicit foreign voting base imported on the basis of their wealth and conservatism

     And don’t get me started on their driving! Amirite!
6. Chooky 6

   9 March 2016 at 6:42 pm

   +100 Descendent of Sssmith….you could say neoliberal fascism is upon us and we are no longer the proud egalitarian world leading society we once were

   ….and the NZ Labour Party is not worth voting for because too often it has been in collusion
7. Incognito 7

   9 March 2016 at 10:27 pm

   There are two potential violators of man’s rights: the criminals and the government.

   In: The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand
8. Colonial Viper 8

   9 March 2016 at 11:12 pm

   This is just smoke and mirrors. The NZ Govt gets its foreign FVEY partners to do all the spying on NZers, circumventing NZ laws anyway.
   • weka 8.1

     9 March 2016 at 11:22 pm

     I thought that too. The article says that there are restrictions on the GCSB using allies’ information. Is that true?
     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       9 March 2016 at 11:41 pm

       this article suggests the culture inside the FVEY network on this issue

       http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/22/gchq-surveillance-two-human-rights-groups-illegal-tribunal
9. gsays 9

   10 March 2016 at 8:40 am

   Hi chooky, I smell a rat.
   I reckon this is a bit of window dressing before inevitable new laws are passed.
   If we were a little better informed we would call it retrospective legislation.

   Not that it matters, as we have seen, time and time again, the Polly’s do what they want. Then feign ignorance or claim that the law is complicated.
   • M. Gray 9.1

     10 March 2016 at 2:38 pm

     I agree but I think they are already doing it just like the SAS where are they ? our leader knows where they are they are just playing little games and too many NZers believe everything hook line and sinker
10. saveNZ 10

    10 March 2016 at 11:35 am

    I think I read somewhere you are more likely to be killed by a bee sting than a terrorist.

    The whole thing is a farce, from allowing 9/11 to have such a profound effect on how the whole world acts (do whatever they like, start wars, assassinate people etc) to the lack of interest in the citizens of their own countries and their rights and NOW the abuse of citizens and their rights by our own government.

    We are changing everything we fought for and believe in, over a boggy man largely created by the actions of the US in retaliation to a bunch of Saudi Nationals.

    We have more chance of falling into a pot hole and being killed than being killed by any terrorist here, and the government is more interested in protecting the interests of non tax paying cronies than the economic rights of citizens in this country by these spying laws.

    Shame of them! and also shame on Cullen and everyone involved to fall into he bogy man trap of giving wide spread invasive powers to an incompetent government organisation who tell sexist racist jokes, act illegally and spy on and embarrass the opposition.

    I don’t really blame boomers for everything, but here is a classic example of boomers & opportunists giving away younger people’s civil rights that they enjoyed themselves – the right to privacy and safety from power and corruption.

    And that is plain wrong!

Links to post

1. Michael Cullen: the GCSB is not International Rescue! « The Daily Blog: posted on 13 March 2016 at 9:40 am
2. Dear Michael Cullen: the GCSB is not International Rescue! | Frankly Speaking...: posted on 18 March 2016 at 8:01 am

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