Open mike 02/03/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 2nd, 2019 - 134 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

134 comments on “Open mike 02/03/2019 ”

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  1. mauī 1
    2 March 2019 at 8:01 am

    More from the glorious Galloway. This time on Brexit.

  2. Jenny - How to get there? 2
    2 March 2019 at 8:34 am

    Better late than never

    Something that other developed nations, (including NZ, in 1938), delivered decades ago.

    ‘The Time for Medicare for All Has Come’
    Visionary Bill to Remake US Healthcare System
    Jake Johnson, staff writer,Jon Queally, staff writer – Common Dreams, February 27, 2019

    Calling for a “complete transformation of our healthcare system,” Democratic congresswoman says what her legislation will mean is simple: “Everybody in, nobody out.”

    The huge and entrenched US profit driven health care system in the is a travesty, no one can rightfully defend it. Yet it still exists. Built on the desperation of the ill and dying, the huge returns this system brings to wealthy investors and insurance companies, make sure it does.

    Not only do American taxpayers pay more than most countries to subsidise their profit driven health system, they also pay exorbitant private insurance and up front costs before they can receive it. Keeping many millions of Americans who can’t afford it, from life saving care and needless suffering.

    Bringing in single payer will cost the American people far less,.prevent needless suffering, and save countless lives.

    It’s about time.

    Better late than never

    • Gabby 2.1
      2 March 2019 at 9:34 am

      I’ll get right onto it.

      • greywarshark 2.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 10:06 am

        Thanks Gabby so good of you to help the USA. They need and appreciate our foreign aid the sad, blighted things. /sarc

    • Andre 2.2
      2 March 2019 at 10:45 am

      There are two reasons that bill is going precisely nowhere. The first that everyone here should be aware of is the Repug-controlled Senate and Il Douche in the Oval Office.

      The second and much more difficult obstacle is that the majority of Americans get their health insurance through their (or a family member’s) workplace where the employer pays the majority of the cost. In 2018 the average annual premium for an employer-sponsored family health plan was around $20,000. The employer paid on average around $15,000 of that.

      So any proposal to transition the US to some kind of universal single-payer health system has to first persuade those currently covered by their employer-sponsored insurance that they’ll be better off with the proposed new system. That part should be easy given what an exorbitantly expensive clusterfuck the current system is, but won’t be given most people’s fear of change.

      Second, the plan has to map out how the cost burden is going to change. If it’s just by expanding Medicare and paying for it by increasing the existing payroll taxes, then that’s going to be a massive and highly visible tax increase on wage-and-salary earners and a massive windfall cost reduction to employers that will go straight into owner profits. I didn’t spot anything in in the commondreams piece or the linked 10 page summary that even mentioned this aspect of it.

  3. Jenny - How to get there? 3
    2 March 2019 at 8:35 am

    Better late than never

    Something that other developed nations, (including NZ, in 1938), delivered decades ago.

    ‘The Time for Medicare for All Has Come’
    Visionary Bill to Remake US Healthcare System
    Jake Johnson, staff writer,Jon Queally, staff writer – Common Dreams, February 27, 2019

    Calling for a “complete transformation of our healthcare system,” Democratic congresswoman says what her legislation will mean is simple: “Everybody in, nobody out.”

    The huge and entrenched US profit driven health care system is a travesty, no one can rightfully defend it. Yet it still exists. Built on the desperation of the ill and dying, the huge returns this system brings to wealthy investors and insurance companies, make sure it does.

    Not only do American taxpayers pay more than most countries to subsidise their profit driven health system, they also pay exorbitant private insurance and up front costs before they can receive it. Preventing many millions of Americans who can’t afford private treatment, from receiving life saving care or undergoing needless suffering.

    Bringing in single payer will cost the American people far less,.prevent needless suffering, and save countless lives.

    It’s about time.

    Better late than never

    • reason 3.1
      2 March 2019 at 9:08 am

      Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America? ‘

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/16/why-does-it-cost-32093-just-to-give-birth-in-america

      “America is the most expensive nation in the world to give birth. When things go wrong – – from pre-eclampsia to premature birth – costs can quickly spiral into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. While the data is limited, experts in medical debt say the costs of childbirth factor into thousands of family bankruptcies in America each year.

      America is simultaneously the most expensive and one of the riskiest industrialized nations in which to have children.

      as many as 56,000 families each year still go bankrupt from adding a new family member through birth or adoption.

      “Why any society should let anyone be bankrupted by medical bills is beyond me, frankly,” said Woolhandler. “It just doesn’t happen in other western democracies.”

      …………………………………………..

      TPPA is a corporate attempt to export this usa disease ……….

      • Wayne 3.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 12:01 pm

        TPPA (CPTPP) was not an attempt to export the US health system onto everyone else. That is an absurd argument against CPTPP.

        • Sam 3.1.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 12:45 pm

          People are suffering from trade war fatigue, BREXIT, TPP11 ect. Undeniably there is a desires for a conservative health system where the deserving and undeserving poor a denied the basics of life.

        • KJT 3.1.1.2
          2 March 2019 at 3:35 pm

          Wait until we get sued, for closing down a US owned private health provider.

          The you will see what the TPPA, is all about.

          But like the Neo- liberal failed experiment, the perpetrators will never take responsibility.

        • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.3
          2 March 2019 at 3:35 pm

          You fan boys were never able to produce an argument for it that added up, so don’t feign surprise when this incredibly lousy deal elicits speculation as to your motives for boosting it.

        • reason 3.1.1.4
          2 March 2019 at 10:32 pm

          Whats absurd is listening to some-one who always leaves out half the information Wayne…………..

          A leaked negotiating text shows what the US is demanding on behalf of its big drug companies (known as “Big Pharma”) and how the benefits New Zealanders enjoy under PHARMAC are threatened by the TPPA. Although PHARMAC itself will not be dismantled, under the leaked text PHARMAC would:

          : not be able to negotiate a bulk discount for medicines

          : have to give detailed reasons to the drug companies about every purchasing decision

          : give pharmaceutical companies the right to appeal PHARMAC’s decisions

          : publish the identities of all decision-makers around the purchasing of medicines.

          If adopted, this text would strengthen Big Pharma’s leverage over PHARMAC. The drug companies’ would gain new rights and opportunities to lobby PHARMAC decision makers and challenge their credentials, demand reasons if PHARMAC rejects their ‘expert’ reports and data, and pressure its decisions by constant threats of appeal. The goal of the big pharmaceutical companies is to influence PHARMAC’s criteria and decisions in their favour at the expense of affordability for the public. If the leaked text is adopted then government would have to massively increase the health budget, reduce the availability of subsidised drugs, or increase the price paid by ordinary New Zealanders.” https://itsourfuture.org.nz/access-to-medicines/

          The drug companies are some of the worst corporations around …. like rust and nationals incrimental privitization of our public health … those fuckers never sleep.

          They profit gouge and dodge tax.

          Apart from misrepresenting the corporate goals in regard to the TPPA …. your lack of comment and presumably concern for the cruelty of the usa health system is noted … “experts in medical debt say the costs of childbirth factor into thousands of family bankruptcies in America each year.”

          To which I’d add there is a lot of the homeless people in the usa …. who have ended up that way after getting sick …. cancer treatments costing them their homes etc.

    • Gabby 3.2
      2 March 2019 at 9:40 am

      Dammit jenns, I said I’ll get right onto it.

    • greywarshark 3.3
      2 March 2019 at 10:07 am

      And repeat.

      • cleangreen 3.3.1
        2 March 2019 at 12:02 pm

        And repeat, again Gabby.

      • greywarshark 3.3.2
        2 March 2019 at 12:13 pm

        And that isn’t pointing a finger at you Gabby, like your stuff. It’s the someone else that wants to drown us in a deluge from the usa piddling pool.

        I think people need to remember that us and usa are two different peoples in different places and sizes. What a difference an ‘a’ makes.

        And you will note that google drops the ‘A’ which designates them as being in America. The ‘United States’ is just an adjective and a noun, and perhaps not restricting it to a location is a subtle hint that the US authorities consider it is short for ‘The Planet’.

  4. reason 4
    2 March 2019 at 8:48 am

    Gosman the flaming penis posts a lot of Gosyrrhea …. a cross between Gonorrhea and Diarrhea.

    I’ve previously asked him for a yes / no response to; “The NZ economy would shit itself and die if we got the Venezuelan treatment from the u.s.a …

    Apart from repeated usa coup participation ….He ignores and denies the economic siege / sanctions weapons being used ,,,, and their effects.

    Two examples :…”the US government added further sanctions that prevent Venezuela from doing what governments routinely do with much of their debt, which is “roll it over” by borrowing again when a bond matures.”

    and …. “Major financial institutions have delayed the processing of all financial transfers from Venezuelan entities, significantly hampering the ability of Venezuelan companies to do business in the United States.”

    If the NZ Govt could not roll over and refinance the 80+ Billion dollar Govt debt National left us with ,,,,, and if our companies like Fonterra could not get paid and trade …. Then our economy would shit itself and die.

    The Aussie economy …. , the british economy ,,,, and even the usa economy itself ,,,, they would all shit themselves and die …. if given the Venezuelan treatment.

    Gooseman ignores all that … and tells usa lies about socialism being more to blame than the hostile actions of the usa …

    He tells more usa lies about the Venezuelan elections.

    The election before last was called the most free and fair in the world by Jimmy Carter ….

    The last election was boycotted by an opposition which knew it would not win, they attacked approximately 100 polling stations to try and stop people voting.

    However UN observers from over 50 countries declared the actual election fair and valid …. its the usa and its coup govt in waiting … and gooseman who are bullshitting with invalid claims …. Venezuelan elections are which are probably more legit than the usa ones …. the usa and its puppet do not want more fair elections …. without usa voter purges of the poor, they can not get into power the electoral way.

    They want a military coup …… backed by the usa of course.

    Regarding socialism …. I’ve twice challenged GooseStepper or other right wing trolls to put up or shut up ……..by showing me / us a capitalist country which improved the living standards / health / education for its people …. as qucikly as Libya did using socialism.

    It went from one of the poorest impoverished countries in the world up to No 67 in the human development index…. all in little over a generation …

    Libya was then of course destroyed by the usa / Nato …. its modern society replaced with a civil war hell hole, that has slave markets ,,, crucifixion of christians ,,, the Lynching of the usa ambassador ,,, kidnappings ,,, mass murders ,,, rapes etc etc.

    The usa seems to be threatening the same treatment for Venezuela

    Unlike Gosman I’m interested in what works around the world …. he’s an idealog and wants to silence evidence that contradicts his beliefs.

    I’m certainly not saying NZ should copy Libya … as our circumstances and society are very different.

    But we should be able to look at examples that work in the world …. and respond to problems like homelessness …without fear of the usa fucking us over.,,,

    Now Imagine if the usa had declared the national party the winner in our last election and told NZ first they had to partner them ,,,,

    Who out of our trolls / dickpicks would have gone along in this goose step direction ,,,, how about nact politicians ?

    I’ll finish with a positive link to another good woman who makes judith collins look like grubby greedy trash

    • Ad 4.1
      2 March 2019 at 9:01 am

      stop trying to incite a flamewar.

      and stop personalusing your attacks.

      be civil.

      • Cricklewood 4.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 9:18 am

        Just have to shake your head sometimes. If you think Gosmans a troll (I dont) ignore him dont spray shit about place. Essentially the post makes it look like Gosmans under you skin and has you beat. Sti’s the shits and a Nazi reference all in one post so classy.

        • reason 4.1.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 9:55 am

          Goose stepping is a long tradition of south American fascist regimes …. Nazis are indeed a subset of fascists.

          modern history lesson History ….. south america was flooded by nazis using ratlines to escape from europe …. 50,000 to Argentina alone…… the generals / facists / juntas took over a large part of south america from the mid 60’s to the 1980’s….. with usa support.

          The usa provided the computers and equipment behind ” operation condor ” ….. much like IBM provided computers to the Nazis to help them keep on top of the huge logistics in running their Jewish and Slavic mass killings / Holocaust.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

        • Muttonbird 4.1.1.2
          2 March 2019 at 9:05 pm

          The Gosman thing is interesting. He is extreme right wing as far as I’m concerned. As much was apparent yesterday when talking about 6000 Auckland houses and apartments being listed on the disruptive app, Airbnb.

          This USA based app has introduced a major shift in the usage of secondary property in the last 2 to 3 years and obviously is having an impact on the number of available rentals for families in Auckland.

          Gosman simply would not comprehend that houses were a scarce resource which must be utilised for working Kiwi families in the current shortage. He would not comprehend that secondary house owners had a duty to follow through on their reason for owning multiple properties which is to provide housing.

          Gosman is an extreme right wing libertarian who simply refuses to play his part in a healthy society and has no concept of what stable communities look like because that sort of thing has never bothered him.

          In fact I’m sure Gosman has no idea of what a healthy society looks like. His world view stops at the standard roses flourishing at his front door.

      • Sam 4.1.2
        2 March 2019 at 12:48 pm

        What the hell is going on here?

        Are you claiming Gosman has been a giver of truth this whole time and not herpes?

    • AB 4.2
      2 March 2019 at 9:14 am

      Venezuela has become a religious talisman for the right. Finger the beads and repeat the immortal truths about the perfection of markets, and shut down the possibility of change by frothing about Satan/Venezuela.
      I think you are a wasting your time arguing. Ignore them and move on.

      • David Mac 4.2.1
        2 March 2019 at 9:32 am

        The tendency is to choose a side. Left vs Right. I think an accurate view of Venezuelan woes lives somewhere between Reason and Gosman.

        Meddling in a nation’s affairs gains easy traction when the regime is corrupt.

    • Gabby 4.3
      2 March 2019 at 9:47 am

      Which election reasy? The presidency or the national assembly? Or that constituent assembly end run?

    • greywarshark 4.4
      2 March 2019 at 10:08 am

      What’s the reason for all this on the USA. I am sick of hearing and encountering stuff about the USA, is that you Jenny with a different monicker?

  5. Anne 5
    2 March 2019 at 9:22 am

    The trouble with the Maggie Barrys of this world, they have been allowed to get away with their bully girl tactics for so many years they think it is normal behaviour.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12208579

    • Gabby 5.1
      2 March 2019 at 9:40 am

      She no doubt sees herself as firm but fair, plain spoken and refreshingly honest and to the point. Of course woe betide anyone being plain spoken and refreshingly honest and to the point right back at her.

      • Anne 5.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 10:01 am

        I was the target of a woman like that. She considered herself honest and always told the truth. In truth, she didn’t know the meaning of the word ‘truth’. She administered her own version of punishments for misdemeanours she believed her targets had committed except they hadn’t.

        She was the “nutter” but she convinced herself other people were the nutters. She and Barry are two of a kind.

    • Fireblade 5.2
      2 March 2019 at 10:08 am

      It must be time for gardening leave.

    • AB 5.3
      2 March 2019 at 12:07 pm

      Right-wing women seem spectacularly horrid. Is that merely perception, or worse, misogyny? I have theories about this – but they are probably crap.

      • greywarshark 5.3.1
        2 March 2019 at 12:17 pm

        AB
        I put up a comment about Margaret Thatcher piece from The Guardian which might add some perspective about right wing women.

      • Anne 5.3.2
        2 March 2019 at 4:28 pm

        Right-wing women seem spectacularly horrid.

        Not all of them. Some are Just misguided.

        But there’s a breed of right-wing women who are – as you say – spectacularly horrid. If my personal experiences of them are any guide, they have sociopathic tendencies and a total lack of empathy for anyone who has fallen on hard times. They are fundamentally racist and see themselves as a cut above everyone else. In reality they are just ignorant nobodies trying desperately to be somebodies.

        Oh, and when you add a naturally spiteful streak they can also be quite dangerous.

        • KJT 5.3.2.1
          2 March 2019 at 11:24 pm

          They, not just the women, remind me of the admiring sycophants that followed the high school bully, who also happened to Captain the rugby team.

          Inadequate people who will do anything to remain part of the “big boys club”.

          Not noticing that their leader, only keeps them as “useful idiots, to be dumped the moment they are no longer useful.

  6. reason 6
    2 March 2019 at 9:40 am

    I’m calling out gosman for his flaming posts…. he’s been shown evidence … so we know he;s dishonest ….. not ignorant.

    How about being all wet on him ….

    There is no verbal abuse which comes within a country mile of uncivilized barbarian actions leading to suffering or death….. or support for such actions.

    Some things deserve rudeness and contempt ….. Like this usa guy promoted to do his stuff in Venezuela.

    Being rude to him is out of order too ……….. tut tut

    • alwyn 8.1
      2 March 2019 at 10:26 am

      Well, he might have been better than the one who did end up in the job. Or not.
      Tell me. Suppose you had to choose between Christie and Trump to be President?
      Which would you have chosen. Fleeing the country is not an option.

      I personally would have fled the country, but I’m not going to allow you the easy way out. I thought the best qualified person actually running was John Kasich, the then Governor of Ohio.

      • marty mars 8.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 10:40 am

        Hmmm I see you present me with a Star Trek Kobayashi Maru no win scenario.

        Ha I wouldn’t have voted for either! Ha ha I win again!!!

        .

      • Ad 8.1.2
        2 March 2019 at 4:20 pm

        Agree.

        Kasich would have been good.

  9. joe90 9
    2 March 2019 at 10:15 am

    Problem is, courage and fresh thinking are beyond the majority.

    .
    Earlier this month, Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) introduced a Green New Deal resolution laying out an ambitious set of goals and principles aimed at transforming and decarbonizing the US economy.
    The release prompted a great deal of smart, insightful writing, but also a lot of knee-jerk and predictable cant. Conservatives called it socialist. Moderates called it extreme. Pundits called it unrealistic. Wonks scolded it over this or that omission. Political gossip columnists obsessed over missteps in the rollout.
    What ties the latter reactions together, from my perspective, is that they seem oblivious to the historical moment, like thespians acting out an old, familiar play even as the theater goes up in flames around them.
    To put it bluntly: This is not normal. We are not in an era of normal politics. There is no precedent for the climate crisis, its dangers or its opportunities. Above all, it calls for courage and fresh thinking.

    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/2/23/18228142/green-new-deal-critics

    • greywarshark 9.1
      2 March 2019 at 11:23 am

      Joe90
      Thanks for that link. These are words that should be written in capitals in front of everyone’s workplace, whatever.

      What ties the latter reactions together, from my perspective, is that they seem oblivious to the historical moment, like thespians acting out an old, familiar play even as the theater goes up in flames around them.

      To put it bluntly: This is not normal. We are not in an era of normal politics. There is no precedent for the climate crisis, its dangers or its opportunities. Above all, it calls for courage and fresh thinking.

  10. reason 10
    2 March 2019 at 10:16 am

    One thing leads to another …..

    ” So when Wayne Mapp says he doesn’t want our foreignpolicy to be subject to a UN veto, what he is really saying is that he wants to wage war in contravention of international law and the UN charter – in other words, he wants us to be a rogue nation, just like the US… ” https://norightturn.blogspot.com/search?q=mapp+%2B+war

    Q : Where does a bad mapp take you .???

    A: Lost in child killing territory ….. so lost ,,, that medals of valor are awarded for killing children and civilians.

    If we were to present Wayne mapp in front of Fatimas mother ….. would she be justified in judging him as a reckless uncaring savage of a man? ….

    Wayne was in the position to prevent the murder of this mothers three year old girl … but he lacked the guts and probably the will …. to stop our invaders attack on her home and village …

    booting his non-decision upstairs we discovered one of the few true things about key …. he was was indeed a smiling assassin.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58bcc6ac893fc04255abbbcc/t/58cfb45a37c5819ccd2bfd50/1490014002150/?format=500w

  11. greywarshark 11
    2 March 2019 at 10:38 am

    Just to change to another foreign country. It is so much more interesting watching them than viewing our own disintegration. How do they do it, we must watch them so we can too only faster!

    I was looking on TradeMe and saw the book Muldoon by Robert Muldoon, for $1.
    Then there was a book on Thatcher for $12 and I wondered if the prices represented their political nous. I think we should be valuing Muldoon above $1.

    I looked up the writer about Thatcher, Hugo Young. Besides his epitaph for her, he wrote a think piece on UK and the EU last century.* I thought Brexit followers might be interested in his opinions, which are Conservative I think. He tries to tap the zeitgeist of the people, and the politicians, and their divided sensibilities.
    * • This is an extract trom This Blessed Plot: Britain and Europe from Churchill to Blair (1998), published by Macmillan

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hugo-young-why-britain-never-sat-comfortably-in-europe
    The island people were not only different but, mercifully, separate, housed behind their moat. They were also inestimably superior, as was shown by history both ancient and modern: by the resonance of the Empire on which the sun never set, but equally by the immediate circumstances out of which the new Europe was born, the war itself. In that war, there had been only one unambiguous victor among European peoples, and she was not to be found on the mainland. The defence of historic uniqueness, against contamination from across the silver sea, was one powerful explanation for the course the British took during these 50 years.

    But the plot was also tortuous. Little in the story was very straight. The nation’s thinking about itself lurched between different destinies. Hanging on to the past, in the form of the post-imperial Commonwealth, seemed for a time to be the answer. Remaining constant to the Anglo-American relationship, the most powerful bond in the English-speaking world, was apparently another necessity, which would be fatally compromised by the lure of something called the European Community. The idea that these amounted to alternative choices, the one necessarily imperilling the other, afflicted the decision of all leaders from Churchill to Margaret Thatcher, if not beyond.

    Thatcher’s epitaph – ‘Days before he died in 2003, Guardian columnist and Thatcher biographer Hugo Young wrote an epitaph for the prime minister [died 8 April 2013 aged 87 years] who changed Britain forever.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-hugo-young
    Thatcher is remembered for her achievements, but more for a presence, which was wrapped up with being a woman. Several strong women on the continent have risen to the top, but this British woman, in Britain of all places, became a phenomenon, first, through her gender.

    The woman, however, changed. The gender remained, its artefacts deployed with calculation. But it was overlaid by the supposedly masculine virtues, sometimes more manly than the men could ever assemble….

    Thatcher became a supremely self-confident leader. No gloves, or hats, except for royalty or at funerals, but feet on the table, whisky glass at hand, into the small hours of solitude, for want of male cronies in the masculine world she dominated for all her 11 years in power…

    One also can’t forget what happened to the agency that made Thatcher world‑famous: the Conservative party, of which she seemed such an improbable leader. Without it, she would have been nothing. It chose her in a fit of desperation, hats and all – though it quite liked the hats. It got over a deep, instinctive hostility to women at the top of anything, and put her there. Yet her long-term effect seems to have been to destroy it. The party she led three times to electoral triumph became unelectable for a generation.

    There are many reasons for this. But Thatcher was a naturally, perhaps incurably, divisive figure. It was part of her conspicuous virtue, her indifference to familiar political conventions. It came to a head over her most egregious policy failure, Europe. She lost seven cabinet ministers on the Europe question, a record that permeated the party for years afterwards. It still does. So the woman I met in Curzon Street, dimpling elegantly, can now be seen in history with an unexpected achievement to her credit. She wrecked her own party, while promoting, via many a tortuous turn, Labour’s resurrection.

    The last time I met her was after all this was over. We had had a strange relationship. She continued for some reason to consider me worth talking to. Yet I wrote columns of pretty unremitting hostility to most of what she did. It became obvious that, while granting that I had “convictions”, she never read a word of my stuff.

    Compared to what we admire in Ms Ardern, Thatcher was very different. In being different Hugo Thomas says, she wrecked her own Party. She went further than they ever would. Steely conviction that she knew best. I don’t think Ms Ardern thinks like that. Should she veer towards it more? And Trump. Is he wrecking the Republicans as well as the USA?

    • alwyn 11.1
      2 March 2019 at 11:37 am

      “The party she led three times to electoral triumph became unelectable for a generation.”.
      They certainly seem to have very short generations in Britain, at least according to Mr Young.
      Maggie Thatcher left office in 1990. She was succeeded by John Major as Leader of the Conservative Party and PM who then won the election of 1992 and remained PM until 1997. When Thatcher quit the party was obviously not “unelectable” was it?
      Labor then became the Government from 1997 until 2010. That is 13 years which seems to be the shortest “generation” I have ever heard of. I would think of a generation as being about 25 years.
      The Conservatives then resumed office in 2010 and are still there.

      Mr Young also seems to think that, because Thatcher continued to talk to him even though he wrote columns of unremitting hostility about her she must not have read what he wrote. What Rubbish. Thatcher lasted 11 years as PM. Having someone say nasty things about her would not have bothered her in the slightest. She would have had skin like a battleship’s armour plate.

      As for comparing her with Ardern. You must be joking. Arderrn will be remembered as a person who was totally out of her depth as PM and left office after a very short termterm with nothing memorable to how for her time in office.

      • Shadrach 11.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 6:34 pm

        “…with nothing memorable to how for her time in office.”

        Other than large numbers of working groups. Oh, and a baby.

        • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 7:36 pm

          Having a crack at the Prime Minister for having a baby now? You do realise some poor woman had to give birth to you at some point in the distant past. I bet she regrets that now! 🤣

          • Shadrach 11.1.1.1.1
            2 March 2019 at 8:19 pm

            If you read what I wrote, you would have seen I listed it as an achievement. One of few, but an achievement none the less.

            • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1.1.1
              2 March 2019 at 8:43 pm

              Your misogynist hatred blinds you.

              But that’s ok because the bulk of voters will not agree with you. Initially the Nats weren’t going to touch Ardern on being a young mother because it would be political poison.

              Now they (you) are so desperate you’ve decided to attack her on just that.

              Good luck in 2026.

              • RedLogix …
                2 March 2019 at 8:58 pm

                The idea that most men are women haters, when in reality they spend most of their lives trying to work out how to please the ones in their lives … remains an enduring mystery to me 🙂

                • marty mars …
                  2 March 2019 at 9:04 pm

                  You are the only one saying that ‘most men are women haters’ – why did you say that? Why is that idea in your head?

                  • RedLogix …
                    2 March 2019 at 9:32 pm

                    Well given how it’s a label that’s readily attached to ANY man with whom some women disagree with …

                    Don’t get me wrong here, misogyny is real and it exists, but it irks me to see it used so lazily as substitute for discussion.

                    • marty mars …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:47 pm

                      I think you’re projecting.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:01 pm

                      @ marty

                      There may be some truth in that, we all project from our experiences to some degree.

                    • marty mars …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:08 pm

                      “The idea that most men are women haters…”

                      That line is incendiary, unnecessary, incorrect and irrelevant to the discussion.

                      It is sad that that is what you think.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:20 pm

                      Well given that both of us agree that most men are not women haters, then why does the ‘misogyny’ word get used so frequently?

                    • marty mars …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:30 pm

                      We don’t both agree on this stuff as you know – I find most often I disagree with your take, based on your experience, of gender politics and sexuality. I have learned this through numerous arguments with you on this forum. I’m pretty sure you really don’t want to go there so just back away slowly, as will I.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:34 pm

                      That’s ok. I’m happy for you to have a different view, and I don’t see this as personal.

                • greywarshark …
                  2 March 2019 at 10:41 pm

                  RL
                  What sized foot do you have? Rather large I think, because you manage often to put your foot in something when you talk about women. Even when you are being quite innocent of any miss-demeanour it comes out wrong. Better to stay away from the subject while on the blog. You may intermingle and comment as you wish in other places without let or hindrance.

                  • RedLogix …
                    2 March 2019 at 11:00 pm

                    Do you disagree with my proposition above?

                    Implicitly I was commenting on the use of the word ‘misogyny’ which has a strong and powerful meaning, in contexts like this where I don’t see it as warranted.

                    In my experience most men do spend their lives trying to please the women in their lives, they often love them beyond all reason and sacrifice much of their adult lives to provide and protect for them and their children. That doesn’t feel like any kind of ‘hatred’ to me.

                    What does seem to be happening is the word has taken on a political meaning that denotes ‘anyone who does not identify as a third-wave feminist or agree with it’s dogma’. Yet a quick search shows that typically less than 20% of Western populations self-identify as ‘feminist’; that’s an awful lot of potential ‘political misogynists’ out there.

                    It impresses me that you should find this simple logic so disconcerting.

        • RedLogix 11.1.1.2
          2 March 2019 at 7:43 pm

          Raising a child and being Prime Minister are both exceptionally demanding roles. That Adern is undertaking both at the same time, with both aplomb and dignity, is something I can only admire. I wish her and her family the best with this.

          And probably not a smart topic to use for cheap shots around here.

          • Muttonbird 11.1.1.2.1
            2 March 2019 at 7:50 pm

            Also, we were assured by opponents of the government that the PM would use her baby for self promotion and for the promotion of the government. It would be grossly unfair, they said, for the government to have such an asset with which to woo voters.

            But guess what, Ardern and Gayford have studiously keep their family life private. This is in stark contrast to the leader of the opposition who has indulged in multiple women’s magazine shoots, shopping his family around the country via cheap ink on cheap paper stock all in the name of self-promotion.

            And his popularity is still plummeting!

          • Shadrach 11.1.1.2.2
            2 March 2019 at 8:20 pm

            I’m sure she’s doing a great job as a mum. As a PM, not so much.

            • Sam 11.1.1.2.2.1
              2 March 2019 at 8:34 pm

              Do you scale? Your entire body of comments here are in question. Now your entire reason for being here is clear. Your agenda is to discredit The Prime Minister is New Zealand based on a series of comments that are fascile and ideological, I just debuncked your tax agenda, now you’re ducking. So before you continue along your agenda. What’s the Strongest Politician living past or present that can beat Jacinda in a straight up election. The conditions are equal MMP states. Labour42.5%, National42.5%, NZFirst5%, Greens5%, ACT5%. Economy steady @3%, unemployment 5%, inflation 3%. Who beats Jacinda and why?

              • Shadrach …
                2 March 2019 at 8:41 pm

                “Your agenda is to discredit The Prime Minister is New Zealand based on…”

                No, it isn’t. But if it was, I wouldn’t really have to try too hard. She’s doing a good job of discrediting herself without my assistance. I do have some sympathy for her, however. She became leader of Labour only out of the party’s utter desperation, and then only became PM by virtue of a bitter, but admittedly wily, old fox. She is and was woefully unqualified in terms of life experience, and it’s showing. Day after day.

            • KJT 11.1.1.2.2.2
              2 March 2019 at 8:41 pm

              I know the idea of actually consulting with the public, listening to experts and thinking carefully about policy, is a foreign concept to the “Masters of the Universe”.

              Who prefer the peasants are just told what to do.

              It is the sign of a good leader, to consider and reason.

              • Shadrach …
                2 March 2019 at 8:45 pm

                The sign of a good leader is the ability to make good quality, timely decisions. Listening and consulting is important, if it is in order to inform a decision. When it is simply to kick decisions down the road, that is a sign of weakness.

                But I’m quite happy for her to keep listening, because the decisions she has made so far haven’t been great.

                • KJT …
                  2 March 2019 at 8:49 pm

                  In your, somewhat self interested and biased opinion.

                  I am not even a Labour supporter, but so far she is heading in the right direction. Difficult as it is with ignorant greedy arseholes, like yourself, making any progress an uphill battle.

                  • RedLogix …
                    2 March 2019 at 8:55 pm

                    ignorant greedy arseholes, like yourself,

                    There is zero requirement to agree with him, but so far Shadrach has generally engaged here in good faith and presented his case with reasoned argument and data.

                    Personal attacks like this invariably say more about the person making them …

                    • Sam …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:06 pm

                      Duck clap. That’s at least the secound time Iv seen you say that. Didn’t work the first time, what makes you think it will work a secound, Mr Logic?

                      In my book a blatant insult deserves a blatant insult. Shaddy maybe using sophisticated insults but they are insults. As long as health and education resources are equal to demand there isn’t a bad thing any one can say about Jacinda.

                      It’s the only way to teach EQ.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:15 pm

                      An hour ago you were saying that commenter was taking cheap shots.

                      Make up your mind, please.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:23 pm

                      @ Muttonbird

                      Maybe both of them were cheap shots ….

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:28 pm

                      @ Sam

                      In my book a blatant insult deserves a blatant insult.

                      OK … in my book it doesn’t; wrestle with a pig and you will come up as dirty as the pig.

                      Also Mathew 5:44

                    • Sam …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:44 pm

                      You know the problem with agnoring insults is it doesn’t work on those who aren’t payed to grab your attention or are just trying to grab your attention like journalist. Want to harm them then ignore them and reduce self deception and bullshit.

                      Praying on the other hand is the gospel of the weak and downtrodden. There’s something strange about preying I public.
                      In my view, a person is Christian if they says theyre Christian. Anything else leads to unending arguments over who is a “true Christian” and who isn’t, because there’s no objective standard to determine who is and who isn’t a true believer.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:50 pm

                      Don’t get over anxious on my account Sam, I’ve participated in literally thousands of conversation here in the past decade and I’ve developed some idea what works for me. For what it’s worth I tapered off on the ‘insult for insult’ approach at least five years back, given that it seemed counterproductive more often than not.

                      But you’d be wrong if you think I’m incapable of them.

                      Nor am I specifically a Christian either, although I’d like to think I can recognise wisdom regardless of what costume she’s wearing on the day.

                    • Sam …
                      2 March 2019 at 9:58 pm

                      Safe travels.

                    • KJT …
                      2 March 2019 at 10:55 pm

                      You think.

                      Shadrack has so far spent hundreds of words trying to justify why, he shouldn’t pay tax on his income like the rest of us.

                      I am being kind. There are much worse words for people who are happy to get rich by causing homelessness and poverty.

                    • Shadrach …
                      3 March 2019 at 9:51 am

                      “There are much worse words for people who are happy to get rich by causing homelessness and poverty.“

                      I am a landlord. I provide housing. That was not one of your more lucid comments, and that’s saying something.

                    • Shadrach …
                      3 March 2019 at 9:53 am

                      …and about the paucity of any argument they may have.

                    • KJT …
                      3 March 2019 at 10:08 am

                      I was a builder. I, provided houses.

                      You. Just make money from them.

                    • Shadrach …
                      3 March 2019 at 10:33 am

                      And of course you sold those houses you built at cost, didn’t you.

  12. Muttonbird 12
    2 March 2019 at 10:45 am

    A sobering and brutally honest column from Steve Braunias today. Quite hard to read because it reminds us we are only a short distance from fragility and loneliness – especially as we grow older.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12205688

    Look after yourselves, people.

    • greywarshark 12.1
      2 March 2019 at 11:49 am

      What’s so special about that Steve Braunias. We are all on the same journey or parallel; at different stages. Like the ‘Spain’s Camino de Santiago ‘.* I’ve put the link down the bottom as it might be something to concentrate on doing while you reorient yourself.

      Come and write here. Give us lessons on angst and how to market it. Everything is business these days – how to call out for other’s attention, successfully. We are not succeeding. Or are we; perhaps we get the attention of someone who takes a point from our writing that was not our intention. Can’t people out there concentrate on trying to understand, not go to the trouble of telling you that no-one says ‘whom’ these days! Tell me how you feel about my use of semi-colons Steve. Are they naff; too frequent?

      Join the club Steve, perhaps there is already one formed for people who are trying, but find that others just regard them as very trying. We can laugh at ourselves ironically. We may not be getting far even slowly, but we are moving forward – that’s so ‘in’ these days. At the end of the day it is irony that brings some steel into your life,
      and gives you strength to stagger on!

      https://www.planetjanettravels.com/walking-spain-camino-going-back-for-more/

      P>S> Tom Scott has drawn a cartoon showing himself in apparent safari shirt and shorts and giving an impression of leaving. Says something about a book and heroes. Probably like Muldoon he is going to write about himself. Both of them are heroes in their own ways. You too Steve.

      Keep us fizzing you heroes – we’ll try to keep the water flowing, and perhaps turning it into wine if we have that special power, and you put the bubbles in. Okay? Deal?

  13. greywarshark 13
    2 March 2019 at 10:55 am

    Canada – the reporter in this Guardian article (thanks Guardian i must give you a donation regularly), says that watching Trudeau front up to behaviour below par is like watching a unicorn being run over! Such wonderful hyperbole.

    To recap, Wilson-Raybould [former Attorney-General and Justice Minister]
    was demoted to the position of veterans affairs minister in a cabinet shuffle earlier this year. Shortly thereafter, reports emerged that she and her staff had been subjected to a “sustained” campaign by the prime minister’s office over the handling of corruption charges against SNC-Lavalin, a Montreal-based engineering giant accused of bribing Libyan officials. It happens to be a large employer in Quebec, Trudeau’s home state – the prime minister’s office made sure to remind her of that, the job losses such charges might cause and the fact that it was an election year. There was a string of increasingly irate calls, texts and emails. Still, Wilson-Raybould held her ground. The prime minister lost the battle. Then she was demoted.

    When the story broke, Trudeau denied any connection between the standoff and Raybould-Wilson’s political punishment. He denied having done anything inappropriate or wrong. The press and public howled. His principle secretary, Gerald Butts, who has been his bestie since their halcyon days in the 90s at McGill University, tried to take one for the team by resigning last week. But it was already too late. Now, Canada’s Tory opposition and many respected commentators are calling for Trudeau’s resignation. It’s a political bloodbath, Canadian style

  14. Muttonbird 14
    2 March 2019 at 10:56 am

    Simplifying the Mainzeal collapse into one word: reckless.

    Jenny Shipley is, was, and always will be reckless. She was leader of a reckless party, the National Party. Subsequent leaders have also been reckless – it is in their very nature.

    The recklessness of John Key’s term is plain for all see. A housing crisis, corruption in the education sector, underfunding of health and infrastructure, poor immigration management, and worse environmental management.

    These two and all their colleagues are cut from the same cloth and I hope people can finally see that truth.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12208418

    • greywarshark 14.1
      2 March 2019 at 11:57 am

      Does reckless include the meanings – irresponsible and delinquent?

      • OnceWasTim 14.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 12:41 pm

        If delinquent includes lacking in compassion and ethics, then yes

      • Robert Guyton 14.1.2
        2 March 2019 at 3:59 pm

        I was thinking about the word, “reckless” the other night and realised that it stems from “reckon”, that is, thought/thinking/reckoning, therefore, I reasoned, “reckless” means acting without reckoning.

  15. Cinny 15
    2 March 2019 at 11:06 am

    Thanks momo for the sleepless night,

    Because of the momo paranoia and coverage, it’s been popping up on the kids screens as it’s ‘trending’. It’s only popped up on their feeds in the last couple of days… https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/110953249/momo-challenge-everything-you-need-to-know

    Nek minute nightmares at , 11pm, 12.20am, 4.30am, 6.23am. Tired grumpy kids are hard work. No devices today girls, mum needs a full nights sleep so she can be a good parent.

    On the upside it could be a good way to explain to the girls how much social media trending fake news (momo ain’t real) can influence someone and change a persons thinking.

    Better arm myself with some bad dream spray tonight, (perfume, air freshner, waving around some incense, what ever i can find at the time lolz) worked a treat on me when I was a kid lmao.

    Hellooooo coffee 🙂 It’s a beautiful day here today.

    • greywarshark 15.1
      2 March 2019 at 6:20 pm

      Momo thing that was reported on Radionz looked nasty and frightening, was worse when I read about it.

  16. greywarshark 16
    2 March 2019 at 11:15 am

    China has a grip and is tightening it via ‘social credit’ passes.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/01/china-bans-23m-discredited-citizens-from-buying-travel-tickets-social-credit-system

    The social credit system aims to incentivise “trustworthy” behaviour through penalties as well as rewards. According to a government document about the system dating from 2014, the aim is to “allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step.”

    Social credit offences range from not paying individual taxes or fines to spreading false information and taking drugs. More minor violations include using expired tickets, smoking on a train or not walking a dog on a leash.

    One thinks of Gilbert and Sullivan, and the line about the punishment fitting the crime!The chorus from a 2012 version of the Mikado which is Japanese but will carry the similar sentiments of this Chinese edict:
    Mikado:
    A more humane Mikado never
    Did in Japan exist,
    To nobodys second,
    I’m certainly reckoned
    A true philanthropist.
    It is my very humane endeavour
    To make, to some extent,
    Each evil liver
    A running river
    Of harmless merriment.

    My object all sublime
    I shall achieve in time —
    To let the punishment fit the crime —
    The punishment fit the crime;
    And make each prisoner pent
    Unwillingly represent
    A source of innocent merriment!
    Of innocent merriment!

    I wonder if anyone has anecdotes of what it was like to live in Singapore where they introduced draconian rules post WW2 that sound similar to those in China.

    Meanwhile our Christchurch police are arming themselves and a stray shot from a recent ‘episode’ went through a window in a nearby building, where there were a number of people felling terrified, as you would.

    • cleangreen 16.1
      2 March 2019 at 12:27 pm

      Two horrible truck fatalities over the last three days.

      Trucks are now gridlocked on NZ roads causing higher casualties than Australia now. Back in 2017 it was bad but we now have had according to NZTA an 8% a year increase in trucks.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97785078/new-zealands-road-toll-in-five-charts
      NZ road fatalities has 70 people die per Million and Australia has just 50 die per million.
      New Zealand’s road toll in five charts
      Andy Fyers 09:55, Oct 12 2017
      “There have been 297 fatalities on New Zealand’s roads so far this year.

      The country’s road toll has been declining for years, but after a series of horror crashes it is set to soar.

      After a crash north of Taupō in which four people were killed, this year’s grim toll climbed to 297.

      That’s already above than the toll for each of the past six calendar years and there are still more than two months to go.

      Of course, the population has also been growing, but the per capita road toll has also been increasing in recent years and the ratio of fatalities to vehicles on the road has flatlined after declining almost every year since 2000.”

      Here were the two latest fatal truck crashes last week.
      • Last friday morning another truck and a car accident on Highway 1 near Turangi and Taupo.

      • The day before three died in a four vehicle accident involving three trucks on highway 2 near Matata near Whakatane.

      Rail would have saved four lives that NZTA cost each life lost at $3.4 million.

      So rail would have saved us all almost $14 million.

  17. greywarshark 17
    2 March 2019 at 12:19 pm

    Sorry if I am dominating the Open Mike. I will leave it to reason and Jenny-How.

  18. Andre 18
    2 March 2019 at 1:00 pm

    Here we go, peeps. Natural possum control, no more 1080. Check this out, fresh from Peru.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/spider-tarantula-eats-opossum_n_5c772d95e4b010e7c563bb06

  19. Fireblade 19
    2 March 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Simon Bridges driving around in a car, telling dad jokes and talking gibberish.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207256

    NZ needs a better opposition leader than this clown.

  20. BM 20
    2 March 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Don’t know if anyone one has posted this.

    Great interview with Vernon Tava, very clever switched on guy.

    if given coverage by the media, I can see the sustainable party doing very well in 2020.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2019/03/vernon-tava-shooting-for-10-percent-of-2020-vote.html

    • Incognito 20.1
      2 March 2019 at 1:39 pm

      Yeah, saw that last night and almost wrote a post on that but it was too getting too late. I’ll see how I go this weekend as there’s good fodder there to write about. Maybe you’d like to have a go at a Guest Post here?

      • BM 20.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 2:00 pm

        Thanks the offer, but writings not really my strong point, there are far more talented people here who could do justice to this topic

        I’d get crucified for my poor grammar, sentence structure, etc and any points I was trying to make would be lost.

        • Incognito 20.1.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 2:11 pm

          No worries. I’m writing the post right now and I’m no good at writing either. In any case, people who disagree with your points but who have no real counter argument or simply can’t be bothered often resort to nit-picking about grammar, sentence structure (syntax), punctuation, and most of all semantics.

    • Robert Guyton 20.2
      2 March 2019 at 4:05 pm

      There’s so much wrong with what Tava said.
      Looking forward to a post and a chance to straighten out the bendy thinking.

      • BM 20.2.1
        2 March 2019 at 8:58 pm

        In what way, I think he speaks a lot of sense.

        A proper green party should always be part of a government in an MMP environment, the fact the current Greens can’t work with anyone but Labour rules themselves out of that role.

        Hopefully, Tava can develop and grow the Sustainable party into a position where the can take over from the current Greens and fullfill that role.

        • KJT 20.2.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 11:03 pm

          Another one who thinks a sustainable environment can be separated from a sustainable society.

          Blue/Greens cannot fulfill that role because their entire ideology depends on growth. Which is not compatible with an environment.

          • RedLogix 20.2.1.1.1
            2 March 2019 at 11:43 pm

            Yet at the same time the elimination of poverty and meeting the technical challenge of climate change both demand innovation and growth.

            Take away ‘growth’, collapse our global economy back to the pre-Industrial, pre-capitalist era and not only will we entirely lack the tools to meet these challenges, we will have 7 billion mouths to feed and no obvious means to do so.

            Unless you have some unspecified plan in mind …

            • McFlock 20.2.1.1.1.1
              2 March 2019 at 11:58 pm

              I’m not so sure about growth.

              Take food, for example. Say we waste 30% of food globally. Someone innovates and halves that wastage. If we maintain production, people are better off. If we reduce production by 5%, actual consumed food still increases significantly. But how would that affect the food component of “growth”? You’d get an increase of GDP from the food that’s ploughed back into fields for whatever reason, but the food sent back to the restaurant kitchen, or that expires on the pantry shelf? Reducing that won’t affect GDP at all. Might even reduce it.

              • RedLogix …
                3 March 2019 at 12:15 am

                I’m not so sure about ‘growth’ either. KJT uses the word in a distinctively prerogative frame, yet this cannot be the whole story.

                In part you’re absolutely correct about efficiency; there is so much we could and should do to minimise our existing resource use, just within our current technological framework.

                On the face of it the simple notion of unlimited resource consumption on a fundamentally limited planet is absurd. Everyone understands this at some level. Yet as they say the Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones; instead we developed Bronze which turned out to be a far more efficient use of the very limited energy resources available to us at the time.

                Through a series of major stages we’ve progressed through the Iron Age, the Coal Age, and the Oil Age, In this sense ‘growth’ has a far more constructive meaning; it’s about how efficiently we utilise the energy and physical resources available to us.

                Right now we are hard up against the limits of fossil carbon burning, and potentially some metals. Our agricultural systems consume too much land and our raping of the oceans is an abomination. Don’t mis-characterise me, I’m as vividly aware of the potential for total eco-collapse as the deepest shade of Greenie.

                The only solution we know that will work is to progress beyond the limits of our current technologies, and leap once again up the efficiency ladder into completely new industrial forms. Forms perhaps dominated by solar, solid state lithium storage, fusion cells, new exotic materials like graphene and the like. There is a massive amount of R&D happening globally in all these areas; it only take a small fraction of it to make it from the lab to commercial products to utterly transform the world.

                I don’t propose any guarantee this plan will work, but it is the only ethical bet in town.

                • KJT …
                  3 March 2019 at 9:12 am

                  “On the face of it the simple notion of unlimited resource consumption on a fundamentally limited planet is absurd.”

                  You understand the absurdity of continual growth, yet you argue for it to continue.

                  We talk about the “magic of compounding interest”. And, in a world capable of infinite expansion, yes.
                  In a finite world, infinitely compounding growth required for exponentially expanding returns, is a total impossibility.

                  Simple maths.

                  Then. The technological fix. We cannot even get the idiots to agree to a stop to oil drilling, in thirty years time.
                  Haven’t you seen the resistance to the current technological solutions. Vested interests are fighting alternative energy, public transport and reduced energy use, tooth and nail.

                  If the idiots had any ethics, we will have a chance. But they would rather the world end, than lose any money. They still have the delusion they can load all the costs on the already poor.

                • KJT …
                  3 March 2019 at 9:32 am

                  We are not in the bronze age.

                  We are at the same stage as the Easter Islanders.

                • Pat …
                  3 March 2019 at 10:43 am

                  It appears to me you missapply the term growth in this context when what you actually mean is improvement/progress….although synonyms they are not the same .

            • KJT 20.2.1.1.1.2
              3 March 2019 at 9:07 am

              Who the hell said anything about collapsing back to the pre industrial era.

              As for growth. Continued using up of the environment simply cannot happen.
              Or this argument will be moot, as a few desperate remnants of humanity cling onto an environment incompatible with human life.

              Late stage Capitalism, has meant a huge amount of waste and mis -directed resources. The “competition” with Polytechnics, and ports, is but one small example.

              The only hope, is that we stop spending our efforts into finding ever more elaborate ways of ripping other people off, which is the aim of the majority of businesses these days, and co-operate in solutions.

              Those who are making plenty of money from business as usual have shown they will fight every step of the way.

              The infinite growth required for our current system of finance, economy and social organization to continue, is an absurdity.

    • mauī 20.3
      2 March 2019 at 7:40 pm

      Yeah great for those who are keen on electing a cross between Elon Mush and Maggie Barry into Parliament…

  21. joe90 21
    2 March 2019 at 3:10 pm

    Arundhati Roy on Kashmir.

    Modi has internationalised the Kashmir dispute. He has demonstrated to the world that Kashmir is potentially the most dangerous place on earth, the flash-point for nuclear war. Every person, country, and organisation that worries about the prospect of nuclear war has the right to intervene and do everything in its power to prevent it.

    […]

    The attack that killed at least 40 men was yet another hideous chapter in the unfolding tragedy of Kashmir. Since 1990, more than 70,000 people have been killed in the conflict, thousands have “disappeared,” tens of thousands have been tortured and hundreds of young people maimed and blinded by pellet guns. The death toll over the last 12 months has been the highest since 2009. The Associated Press reports that almost 570 people have lost their lives, 260 of them militants, 160 civilians and 150 Indian armed personnel who died in the line of duty.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/our-captured-wounded-hearts-arundhati-roy-on-balakot-kashmir-and-india_n_5c78d592e4b0de0c3fbf82bf

  22. Sabine 22
    2 March 2019 at 6:52 pm

    i hate these forced birthers with a passion i can hardly put in words

    how fucked up do you have to be to refuse an abortion to an 11 year old girl who was raped by the 65 year old partner of her grandmother on the grounds of your personal believes.

    Like how fucked up do you have to be in your believes to force an 11 year old girl to carry a pregnancy to terms?

    how fucked up do you have to be to ‘consider the mothers consent to the abortion not enough’ and yet request the ‘grandmothers consent as she lived with her grandmother, even tho she got raped at her grandmothers’, so that eventually the girl is over 20 weeks along, and you need a ‘cesarian’ to cut the baby out.

    How fucked up, how mean, how petty and how cruel do you have to be to force an 11 year old girl through a pregnancy, and please fucking leave god out of it, cause if that is ok by god, then god is a fucking sadist and ok with baby rapists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47400819
    “The girl became pregnant after being raped by her grandmother’s 65-year-old partner and had requested an abortion.

    However, her request was delayed by almost five weeks, and some doctors refused to carry out the procedure.

    Eventually doctors carried out a C-section instead, arguing it would have been too risky to perform the abortion.

    The baby is alive but doctors say it has little chance of surviving.

    The girl was 23 weeks pregnant when – after several delays – she was to have the abortion.”

    ” Local media report that the girl had been clear from the beginning that she wanted to terminate her pregnancy, telling officials: “I want this thing the old man put inside me taken out.””

    just how fucked up does one have to be to not simply see all that is wrong with the forced birther crowd. For the unborn, and to hell with those born and ‘potential hosts’.

  23. greywarshark 23
    2 March 2019 at 10:33 pm

    We are set in the farming mould here in NZ. The jelly mould, and women must have their jellybabies. The farming types can’t decide whether women are like breeding stock and have an owner or whether they should be allowed to run free and graze on the long acre eking out a life. If they want to provide a secure family life with a role model of a capable, intelligent good mother and afford to provide things that other children have, the mother trying to get training will be made to jump through hoops. So perhaps unmarried women are sort of like circus animals.

    • KJT 23.1
      2 March 2019 at 11:06 pm

      We had an education fairly recently about the, all to common, attitude to young mothers. Especially brown ones.

      To me it seems totally creepy.

  24. RedLogix 24
    2 March 2019 at 11:07 pm

    I’ve been listening to this evening. Quite a fascinating and vivid discussion on depression with deep political implications. Warning, quite long at 1:25

  25. Eco Maori 25
    3 March 2019 at 9:21 am

    Kia ora R & R whanau ora is just cyps rebranded with a Maori name. I say Bill set it up so his wife could setup a company to milk the people and the system it’s was not about fixing the problems that this raciest system has on minority culture.
    I have seen no evidence that whanau ora is s delivering better our comes for our Mokopunas with LOST parents. The extended whanau is still there to look after the tamariki. I say we need a Maori approach to fixing our tamariki with parents lost to the system. But the real people in control of the system don’t want to give Maori any Mana if you pay good money you will get good carers pay peanuts and you get – – -. Ka kite ano P.S invest good money and have a simple system that holds people accountable for there actions if they don’t improve the tamariki lives

  26. Eco Maori 26
    3 March 2019 at 9:41 am

    Kia ora The Hui it does not matter that difference age groups have a slightly different opinion on the main subject it’s democracy and the people have been educated on the truths of how the system operates and they have spoken to stop this system of harvesting Maoris into the justice system that provides jobs for old white men and legalise weed. 75%,is a good majority. I say a 18 year old ban is what is needed some people will consume it when they are younger but as people are like sheep the majority will obey the LAW. Correct it won’t fix the unjustice system but it is a start on the road to reforms of the unjustice system. Ka kite ano

  27. Eco maori 27
    3 March 2019 at 11:50 am

    Kia or a R & R People cannot predict Papatuanuku. But I’m pretty sure she will give plenty of warnings when a volcano is about to erupt it’s up to the rulers that these Waring be heard IE re tangata is education correctly . LOOK at climate change that is a way Bigger threat to Aotearoa than a volcanic eruption and the climate change deniers have that topic suppressed and we are talking about volcanoes just distracting tactics from the oil barons control MEDIA Ka kite Ano P.S were,s the concomedian GLOBAL WARMING IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE TAKING ABOUT

  28. Eco Maori 28
    3 March 2019 at 12:37 pm

    STRIKE FOR OUR CHILDREDS RIGHT TO BE LEFT A GOOD CLIMATE 15 MARCH .
    Could everyone who cares about our mokopunas futures strike to kia kaha we will let the oil barrons know its no JOKE
    Here you go WHANAU back to the Real issue the is going to make or BREAK our mokopunas futures not Volcanos .
    Climate crisis and a betrayed generation

    Activists behind recent youth-led climate protests say their views are being ignored in the debate about global warmin
    We, the young, are deeply concerned about our future. Humanity is currently causing the sixth mass extinction of species and the global climate system is at the brink of a catastrophic crisis. Its devastating impacts are already felt by millions of people around the globe. Yet we are far from reaching the goals of the Paris agreement.
    Young people make up more than half of the global population. Our generation grew up with the climate crisis and we will have to deal with it for the rest of our lives. Despite that fact, most of us are not included in the local and global decision-making process. We are the voiceless future of humanity.
    We will no longer accept this injustice. We demand justice for all past, current and future victims of the climate crisis, and so we are rising up. Thousands of us have taken to the streets in the past weeks all around the world. Now we will make our voices heard. On 15 March, we will protest on every continent.

    We finally need to treat the climate crisis as a crisis. It is the biggest threat in human history and we will not accept the world’s decision-makers’ inaction that threatens our entire civilisation. We will not accept a life in fear and devastation. We have the right to live our dreams and hopes. Climate change is already happening. People did die, are dying and will die because of it, but we can and will stop this madness.
    We, the young, have started to move. We are going to change the fate of humanity, whether you like it or not. United we will rise until we see climate justice. We demand the world’s decision-makers take responsibility and solve this crisis.
    You have failed us in the past. If you continue failing us in the future, we, the young people, will make change happen by ourselves. The youth of this world has started to move and we will not rest again.
    The global coordination group of the youth-led climate strike.
    Links Below ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/01/youth-climate-change-strikers-open-letter-to-world-leaders

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/01/youth-climate-strikers-we-are-going-to-change-the-fate-of-humanity

  29. Eco Maori 29
    3 March 2019 at 5:35 pm

    I thought I would giving another on SUGAR as I seen one story blaming the bad effects of sugar on Pacific peoples genitics big companys control OUR media hence the truth about the bad thing in ones life are suppressed
    Your Teeth
    You probably rolled your eyes at age 12, but your mother was right: Candy can rot your teeth. Bacteria that cause cavities love to eat sugar lingering in your mouth after you eat something sweet.
    Your Joints
    If you have joint pain, here’s more reason to lay off the candy: Eating lots of sweets has been shown to worsen joint pain because of the inflammation they cause in the body. Plus, studies show that sugar consumption can increase your risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis.
    Your Skin
    Another side effect of inflammation: It may make your skin age faster. Sugar attaches to proteins in your bloodstream and creates harmful molecules called “AGEs,” or advanced glycation end products. These molecules do exactly what they sound like they do: age your skin. They have been shown to damage collagen and elastin in your skin — protein fibers that keep your skin firm and youthful. The result? Wrinkles and saggy skin.
    Your Liver
    An abundance of added sugar may cause your liver to become resistant to insulin, an important hormone that helps turn sugar in your bloodstream into energy. This means your body isn’t able to control your blood sugar levels as well, which can lead to type 2 diabetes.
    Your Kidneys
    If you have diabetes, too much sugar can lead to kidney damage. The kidneys play an important role in filtering your blood sugar. Once blood sugar levels reach a certain amount, the kidneys start to let excess sugar into your urine. If left uncontrolled, diabetes can damage the kidneys, which prevents them from doing their job in filtering out waste in your blood. This can lead to kidney failure.
    Your Body Weight
    This probably isn’t news to you, but the more sugar you eat, the more you’ll weigh. Research shows that people who drink sugar-sweetened beverages tend to weigh more — and be at higher risk for type 2 diabetes — than those who don’t. One study even found that people who increased their sugar intake gained about 1.7 pounds in less than 2 months.
    Your Sexual Health
    You may want to skip the dessert on date night: Sugar may impact the chain of events needed for an erection. “One common side effect of chronically high levels of sugar in the bloodstream is that it can make men impotent,” explains Brunilda Nazario, MD, WebMD’s associate medical editor. This is because it affects your circulatory system, which controls the blood flow throughout your body and needs to be working properly to get and keep an erection.
    Ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/how-sugar-affects-your-body

  30. Eco Maori 30
    3 March 2019 at 6:40 pm

    Kia ora Newshub Lighting strikes caused fires in Australia it must be dry there they would laugh at our droughts.
    Some in the retirement industry don’t show the retired people the respect they deserve.
    Yes democracy needed to be protected and all donations to political parties needed to be declared.
    I won’t say who I am backing in the Auckland mayor race but you can work it out quite easily. It’s cool that lady is making dolls specially for children with disabilities that will lift there spirits.
    Ka kite ano

  31. Eco Maori 31
    4 March 2019 at 8:20 am

    Kia ora The AM Show The Green Party has a better grasp of reality than the 2 neanderthal climate change denier. Adults YEA RIGHT.
    national ran schools broke so they could have a private education system that only the rich could afford to get a decent education you know how it is its easier to CON a uneducated society than a education one. (O we don’t KNOW what is the main cause of obesity) .
    Sitting on the fence.
    If it was not for the POWER of social media our realitys would be buried under pile of oil barrons $$$$$$. Climate change has taken 30 years to get through that pile.
    The youth should be heard as it is there futures we are SHITTING ON at the minute. Social media gives them the power for their VOICES to be heard. That’s the big picture leave Papatuanukue with a better or similar condition as we received it most people want their children to be better off than they have.
    There you go kicking the poor people not everyone that is in prison is a big criminal minor crimes like being Maori and unpaid fines and the ujustice system will stich you up like they are trying to do to Me.
    This same phenomenon happened other times Labour was in power strikes.
    Well I tryed to use the unjustice system to stop my reputation being SHIT on but everyone now knows that the rich make the laws of our society to serve them and lock up the common poor people you need $20.000 to get a fair deal out of the system.
    Im just going to ignore the new joke on the block give it no oxygen and it will disappear. Ka kite ano P.S LoL

  33. Eco Maori 33
    4 March 2019 at 10:52 am

    I see the TROLLS are jumping all over Maori Mana once again blaming us for the Toheroa not recovering from that westen Thing of stipping a resorce untill it collapeses look at the Crafish in Auckland the Orange Roughy that fisheries started when I was a in my teens and it only lasted 10 to 15 years do you blame te Maori for this to fools . At Wai tahi spit there was heaps of Pipis now its skint blame those Maoris . For one a shellfish wont last long with a one ton car driving ontop of it two we know that all shellfish need clean water as the filter wai to get there food they are the filters of Tangaroa the person who wrote this story talks shit saying that he does not know the link between dirty water and the decline of the Toheroa YEA RIGHT just another put down of Maori Cultures . 3 THE ANONMOUS informants are most likley Kehuas Gost made up + just to give credibality to this persons bullshit story 4 I have never seen Toheroa at a Marae
    Decades of fishing bans have not rescued seafood delicacy toheroa
    Toheroa was a favourite NZ seafood delicacy of the 1900s. It was vastly over-harvested and collecting was banned in the 1970s. In the decades since, it has not recovered. Why not? Will Harvie reports.
    It would probably appal Kiwis who feasted on toheroa in the last century that the seafood delicacy is now almost forgotten.
    Until the 1960s, toheroa was New Zealand’s “great contribution to the epicurean world”.
    The kai moana was “highly esteemed by the most fastidious gourmet” and a “gift of nature … that has done much to advertise the Dominion all over the world”, according to the NZ Railways Magazine in 1936.

    Toheroa thrived on the western beaches of the North Island – Ninety Mile, Ripiro and Muriwai. It abounded on the beaches of Kāpiti-Horowhenua near Wellington. Mysteriously, it thrived on Oreti and Te Waewae beaches in Southland. There were pockets elsewhere.
    The surf clam was a staple of the Māori diet for centuries. In the 20th century, it seemed to be an “almost inexhaustible resource” to many.
    From 1928-69, Northland factories canned about 20 tonnes of toheroa a year. In 1940, they canned 77 tonnes, the record
    In almost all discussions of the customary harvests of toheroa, words such as “limited” and “restricted” are used to indicate these are minor events.
    But there’s evidence and testimony that customary catches of toheroa are neither.
    “Based on our observations and communications with kaitiaki, honorary fisheries officers and residents at Ripiro, and to a lesser extent at other locations, it would appear that the levels of human harvesting are significant,” wrote Ross and co-authors in the main paper on toheroa to come out of the Marsden funding.
    “Illegal harvesting is common,” they wrote.
    “Poaching events range in size from residents or visitors just getting a feed every now and then – which may be once a year or once a week – to large-scale illegal harvesting for the black market
    Fresh water comes up often. There’s both evidence and knowledge that toheroa probably need clean, fresh water coming onto beaches from inland. It probably cools them and they probably get nutrients from it.
    In Northland, where many streams and seeps have dried up, there are questions from locals whether this has contributed to the decline.
    “There are also accounts from elders of streams ‘running black’ after logging operations and this coinciding with the disappearance of the toheroa bed at the end of that particular stream,” he wrote in an email.
    “There is clearly a relationship between toheroa and streams, we just don’t understand it yet. Which makes it difficult to advise land and environment managers. We are working on it.”
    Across many North Island iwi, toheroa is closely tied to the dune grass pingao. There are several stories from Māori lore on the connection and Ross thinks the association is worth investigating further. Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/110671140/decades-of-fishing-bans-have-not-rescued-seafood-delicacy-toheroa

    Is this a factor to the destruction of the Toheroa carbon in sea water O no blame those savage Maoris

  34. Eco Maori 34
    4 March 2019 at 11:40 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute
    https://youtu.be/34Na4j8AVgA

  35. Eco Maori 35
    4 March 2019 at 1:46 pm

    Well its about time some more money was invested into Waka building look at all the flash yacth clubs the flash rowing clubs thanks anyway ka pai try getting funding like that for Maori cultures out of national they would SQUEAL like they were shitting bricks lol
    $ 4.6m grant to make Sir Hek’s waka dream a reality
    The government is to invest nearly $8 million in two major Far North projects, including a long-held dream of waka tohunga
    he told the Waitangi Tribunal three years ago he would not be around forever, and his dearest wish was for the funding for a navigation school so that the traditional techniques of Pacific voyaging could be passed on to a younger generation.
    “Sir Hek is truly an icon of the Far North,” Mr Davis said.
    “The Kupe Waka centre will see his knowledge preserved and also bring people to the area from New Zealand and overseas to this incredible part of our country.”
    The government is also investing $3m in a multi-use sports centre in Kaitaia. Participation in sport and fitness was a key part of maintaining a healthy lifestyle and improving the wellbeing of whānau and communities, Mr Davis said.
    “This facility will create jobs, attract people to live here and help retain workers, young people and athletes in Kaitaia.”
    The investment package also includes support for three iwi: Te Aupōuri, Ngāti Kahu and Te Rarawa, to make progress on major projects.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/383515/dollar4-6m-grant-to-make-sir-hek-s-waka-dream-a-reality

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_7l0jLqGyw

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/383515/dollar4-6m-grant-to-make-sir-hek-s-waka-dream-a-reality
    They include investigations into a water storage project for horticulture and exploring the potential for a barge to transport logs to Northport in Whangārei.
    The package announced today is worth $8.2m, but the government has tagged more than $90m from the Provincial Growth Fund for Northland projects from Kaipara to the Far North. Ka kite ano links below

  36. Eco Maori 36
    4 March 2019 at 4:03 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute most of the wife,s whanau are working with the sandflys. Poukokohuia,s

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