Open mike 08/06/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 8th, 2021 - 176 comments
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176 comments on “Open mike 08/06/2021 ”

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  1. Jenny How to get there 1
    8 June 2021 at 7:17 am

    '

    My advice to the Nurses – This Wednesday – Occupy one lane of the Auckland Harbour Bridge – The government will magically increase your pay offer by another $780 million

    <

    blockquote>
    DHBs 'disappointed' in upcoming strike action after nurses reject pay negotiation offer

    Rachel Sadler [yesterday]

    ….The New Zealand Nurses Organisation (NZNO) announced on Monday that members had "overwhelmingly" voted to reject the offer, which means a strike will go ahead this Wednesday.

    DHBs 'disappointed' in upcoming strike action after nurses reject pay negotiation offer (msn.com)

    • Jenny How to get there 1.1
      8 June 2021 at 7:21 am

      The generally caring cycling community will not begrudge the nurses getting $780 million instead of them. In fact they will probably insist on it.

      Auckland harbour cycle and pedestrian bridge facing criticism from both side

      3 days ago

      A cycling advocate says building an entire bridge from the ground up – at a cost of at least $780 million – is totally unnecessary when cyclists and walkers could just have a lane on the existing Auckland harbour bridge.

      Auckland harbour cycle and pedestrian bridge facing criticism from both sides (msn.com)

      • Ad 1.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 3:29 pm

        The nurses look like they need to hire the cycling lobbyists.

        Or indeed the roading lobbyists.

        No point complaining when others are better at it: better to learn than to lose.

    • Rosemary McDonald 1.2
      8 June 2021 at 8:05 am

      Occupy one lane of the Auckland Harbour Bridge – The government will magically increase your pay offer by another $780 million

      yes

      • Sabine 1.2.1
        8 June 2021 at 8:59 am

        and you won't get arrested for braking the law, breaking a police barrier etc etc etc.

        you will not even get fined for causing some traffic issues for others.

        just don't try that anywhere near poor neighborhood.

        • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 10:40 am

          True that, you should have seen the over the top, heavy handed police presence around here in Marewa during the lockdown…then you would walk up to Napier Hill, up there you wouldn't even see a cop.

        • Jimmy 1.2.1.2
          8 June 2021 at 11:09 am

          "braking" the law. That's quite clever. I see what you did there instead of "breaking" as they are cyclists!

      • Bearded Git 1.2.2
        8 June 2021 at 9:48 am

        The government did drop the Mill Road roading project in Auckland , saving around $3 billion (It is costed at $3.5 billion but there will be safety improvements instead) and saving 6 tonnes of CO2 emissions a day.

        So even with the new bike/foot bridge we have a considerable gain for climate change policy from this government-less cars more bikes- and save $2.2 billion too.

        Maybe the $2.2 billion saved should be split a billion for the nurses/health service and a billion for more climate friendly cycleways.

        (Anyway I am off to do the fantastic new Cromwell-Clyde ride today.)

        • Sabine 1.2.2.1
          8 June 2021 at 9:54 am

          Are you going there by bike or do you use a car to transport your bike there to and then back from to home?

        • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2.2
          8 June 2021 at 9:55 am

          Hope you have an E-bike…some of the inclines are punishing.

          • Adrian Thornton 1.2.2.2.1
            8 June 2021 at 10:50 am

            "some of the inclines are punishing."…that is how you get strong, you have to learn to love the hills…or get a e-bike!

    • Incognito 1.3
      8 June 2021 at 8:44 am

      Besides the divisive nature, this time pitting cyclists against nurses, you’re also wrong, as Government as such is not involved in this employment issue. It is also a misrepresentation of the stumbling blocks, as it is not just about pay and it almost never is, but the irony is that pay is often the easiest (!) ‘fix’ in employment disputes. It looks like you deliberately seed discord. You also stuffed up the formatting of the quoted text; the whole comment appears like a dog’s breakfast. What a way to start the day and OM!

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.3.1
        8 June 2021 at 8:54 am

        …it is not just about pay and it almost never is, but the irony is that pay is often the easiest (!) ‘fix’ in employment disputes …

        Ah…but those other key issues can be fixed by hiring more staff. More staff = higher wage bill=more $$$ needed from Government. Wiping student debt would also alleviate much o the stress.

        So….those dollars promised (with impressive alacrity) to the militant bikers would make a real difference to recruiting and retaining these essential workers.

        • Molly 1.3.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 10:32 am

          Having had a lot to do with the health system in the last year, from my perspective the issue regarding continuity of care is important. Very rarely are my appointments set up to see the same specialist each time, often I see someone new each time I go in, to the same department. On the two occasions when I have seen the same specialist, both of them have introduced themselves and said "I don't think I've seen you before…" Says a lot about the sense that you are on the receiving end of a manufacturing process rather than a health system.

          My experience of the ommunication between DHB's has been abysmal. When you are having to go to different DHB's to get different treatments, this can lead to disjointed care and outcomes. It will be interesting to see how the planned integration will be implemented. If the focus is on costs savings – and not improved continuity of care – the communication problem and its effects will continue.

          As a matter of interest, while waiting for treatment you do tend to pass time with the health professionals that attend you. Out of the up to twenty specialist nursing and hospital staff, only two nurses were born and trained in New Zealand. More than a few were looking to work in New Zealand to facilitate easy transfer to Australia. One lovely nurse from the Phillipines, undertook her NZ certification and then was in the Hawkes Bay region for her required placement. She intended to follow her siblings journey to Australia in a couple of years. So much for importing health professionals to make up for the shortfall. The revolving door continues whether they are NZ born or recently NZ certified. It needs to be a more attractive career if we want to keep them.

          After an hour or so, she queried whether I was part Māori. When I replied in the affirmative, she said she was surprised. She had been advised during her three month placement that Māori were disruptive and abusive, but the few that she had contact with didn't seem that bad.

          If anyone queries the disparity of seeking help and health outcomes for Māori fails to look at the culture of the health system, they are missing a trick.

          • Rosemary McDonald 1.3.1.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 11:11 am

            I miss you commenting here Molly. You waste no words and add much to the discussion. Thank you.

            • Molly 1.3.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 11:22 am

              Hey, Rosemary. Not commenting much, but still reading.

              (I enjoy watching you, Sabine, weka, Jenny, Anne and many others to be keeping the valid critique going. Often have a few quiet chuckles reading comments that state much more eloquently – or forcefully – my thoughts on topics.)

        • Incognito 1.3.1.2
          8 June 2021 at 10:08 pm

          Ah, yes, hiring more staff. Why did they not think of that?

      • RosieLee 1.3.2
        8 June 2021 at 9:13 am

        Of course the government is involved. They set the policies. And they were cynical enough to announce a 3 year pay freeze for teachers, nurses, public servants one day – then announce so called fair wage bargaining the next. They could afford meaningful wage and staff increases if they got rid of more of the army of beaurocrats, paper shufflers and consultants.

      • Jenny How to get there 1.3.3
        8 June 2021 at 10:39 am

        Incognito

        8 June 2021 at 8:44 am

        …Government as such is not involved in this employment issue……

        Really?

        If not, it is only by choice.

        Robertson says nurses got 'really big pay increase two or three years ago', but 'hears' frustration

        Mark Quinlivan 1 hour ago

        "Nurses got a really big pay increase from the Government two or three years ago which was to make up for not having been paid well a decade before that….."

        Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson

        Robertson says nurses got 'really big pay increase two or three years ago', but 'hears' frustration (msn.com)

        Whether this 'pay increase from the Government' was really 'big' or not, is a matter for debate.

        What is not disputable, (according to Robertson), is that it was the government that did it. (And obviously could do it again, if they so chose). To say they can't, is what is 'wrong'. To say they don't want to, would be more accurate.

        • Incognito 1.3.3.1
          8 June 2021 at 10:18 pm

          Nurses latest pay offer accept: What you need to know

          4:53 pm on 7 August 2018

          The New Zealand Nurses Organisation (NZNO) has accepted the latest pay offer from their DHB employers. Here's what you need to know.

          The offer ratified today was the fifth from DHBs, worth at least $520 million.

          This marks the end of the row over renewal of the multi-employer collective agreement.

          It follows a day-long strike last month and nearly a year of negotiations between both sides for 30,000 nurses in public hospitals and 20 DHBs.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/363551/nurses-latest-pay-offer-accept-what-you-need-to-know

          Even someone at my pay-grade can understand this, but you can’t!?

      • Chris 1.3.4
        8 June 2021 at 2:53 pm

        "…Government as such is not involved in this employment issue."

        So who is it that's involved? In one corner we have the nurses, and in the other we have…? Who is it? Tell us.

        • Incognito 1.3.4.1
          8 June 2021 at 10:11 pm

          The lycra brigade, of course. Please keep up with the excellent commentary here and you will learn a lot.

    • Treetop 1.4
      8 June 2021 at 8:59 am

      The government cannot lose focus on what really needs to be fixed when it comes to nurses, stressed working conditions and struggling to pay the rent or mortgage in some cases.

      Stress in the home impacts at work or vice versa, that is the dynamic.

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.4.1
        8 June 2021 at 9:07 am

        Heh! But if they could only bike safely over the Waitemata to and from work their stress levels would plummet.

        Somewhere, someone will have calculated and compared the Wellbeing Value of unfettered urban cycling with adequate public healthcare staffing.

        • Treetop 1.4.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 9:25 am

          I read your comment a couple of days back when I asked if anyone had been asked at a screening or specialist appointment if they had been vaccinated for Covid.

          I thought about your reply and your situation. All these Covid posters but nothing on vaccination at ED or enquiry from the specialist. I was asked about Covid vaccination at a mammogram visit.

          I have noticed in the past few years when having procedures that the nurses seem more stressed. Especially if they are short staffed even by one person. Specialist consults seem to be more rushed as well. It is important to have good health management when a serious complication can occur.

          • Incognito 1.4.1.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 9:38 am

            Why on Earth would you waste ED resources on vaccinations? Do you want a haircut at the same time? Get your priorities right, please.

            • Treetop 1.4.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 9:46 am

              Where did I say I would waste ED resources on vaccinations?enlightened

              I was talking about a poster or a pamphlet about vaccinaton at ED.

              • Incognito …
                8 June 2021 at 10:24 pm

                Do you want little flyers for McDonalds with that? House of Travel brochures perhaps?

                • Treetop …
                  9 June 2021 at 8:47 am

                  Icky Incognito, misinterpretation of my comment @ 1.4.1.1

                • Treetop …
                  9 June 2021 at 9:19 am

                  @ 1.4.1.1.1.1.Where did I say I would waste ED resources on vaccinations?

                  What has this got to do with scanning, haircuts, Mc Donalds or House of Travel?

              • Sacha …
                9 June 2021 at 8:51 am

                Fair question. Wonder how they decided where to put them?

                • Treetop …
                  9 June 2021 at 9:26 am

                  No numbering Sacha.

                  • Sacha …
                    9 June 2021 at 9:38 am

                    I'm agreeing about lack of vax info in some parts of the health system. Should probably have said 'good point' rather than good question.

                    • Treetop …
                      9 June 2021 at 9:55 am

                      Thank you for clarification which helps with communication when not clear.

            • Sabine 1.4.1.1.1.2
              8 June 2021 at 9:55 am

              You can get haircuts at the ED? Wonders!

            • Rosemary McDonald 1.4.1.1.1.3
              8 June 2021 at 11:00 am

              Why on Earth would you waste ED resources on vaccinations?

              Some folk just like being obtuse…no?

              We're in the middle of a worldwide pandemic of a highly communicable and deadly Virus which we have been told since day one the only hope is to vaccinate the entire world population else many will die and our health systems will be terminally overloaded.

              Entirely appropriate there would be vaccination encouraging posters on the wall and leaflets providing information.

              • Molly …
                8 June 2021 at 11:08 am

                I am considered Group 2, living in Counties Manukau, supposedly vaccinated by the end of May.

                8th June 2021… crickets…

                More resources in regard to communications, planning and implementation are needed.

              • Incognito …
                8 June 2021 at 10:21 pm

                FYI, ED does not stand for Entertainment Department or Enjoyment Day-stay.

                • Rosemary McDonald …
                  9 June 2021 at 9:11 am

                  ED does not stand for Entertainment Department or Enjoyment Day-stay.

                  It doesn't? Well fuck me, who knew?

                  (I was under the impression (from personal experience) that the "E" stood for "Eventually", or "Expire")

          • Rosemary McDonald 1.4.1.1.2
            8 June 2021 at 9:45 am

            We have spent a ridiculous amount of time in and around hospitals over the past decade or so and feel qualified to comment on some aspects of our publicly funded health system.

            On the whole, most healthcare professionals are sincerely committed to providing the very best of treatment and care to patients as resources allow.

            Treatment is good…but not always possible, and cost is often a factor in this.

            Care, OTOH, costs nothing…but its intrinsic worth is far higher than the most expensive of new-fandangled treatments.

            If nurses and doctors cannot provide the care they know their patients need then vital job satisfaction evaporates.

            (As for the Covid vaccine messaging, there are two 'worlds' here. There's the one Te Ministry says exists…then there's reality. The two will meet up at some point in the future. Hopefully.)

            • Treetop 1.4.1.1.2.1
              8 June 2021 at 9:53 am

              It is also important for the GP to follow what the specialist advises. E.g to refer the patient back when x, y or z occurs.

              Too simple to put a poster up at ED with a Covid vaccination 0800 number to call for an inquiry.

            • gsays 1.4.1.1.2.2
              8 June 2021 at 10:45 am

              You are right about lack of job satisfaction. Senior nurses, and some not so senior, had a course last week helping to upskill to coordinator level.

              One if the modules was a senior doctor talking about how the local hospital is a 'sick hospital'.

              Thus means there are shortages eg staff, capacity for procedures, experienced clinicians, bed space etc. This impacts at all levels particularly ED.

              Add a cruel irony, her Mum was admitted after a weekend of feeling poorly and blood tests at the GP on Tuesday confirmed a heart attack had occured. Two days in hospital for observation and, we thought, angiogram etc. Only to be told, good to go home, with the message that no tests will occur because 'priorities'.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                9 June 2021 at 9:16 am

                Sigh. Wrong end of the stick again, Incognito. What on earth gave you the impression I was referring to our overall vaccine roll out performance?

                • Incognito …
                  9 June 2021 at 9:26 am

                  (As for the Covid vaccine messaging, there are two ‘worlds’ here. There’s the one Te Ministry says exists…then there’s reality. The two will meet up at some point in the future. Hopefully.)

                  • Sabine …
                    9 June 2021 at 9:53 am

                    customer yesterday

                    two invites for the shot, one from the GP, one from the DHB.

                    She managed to be on two lists, cat 2 – healthcare worker, cat 3 standard bog Kiwi.

                    She called to update, and gave up after a lengthy time with no one answering hte phone.

                    how much did we spend on the 'new IT system to manage this" 35 million? Lol.

    • Morrissey 1.5
      8 June 2021 at 9:34 am

      It's not a case of either a cycling bridge or nurses' pay, Jenny. Surely we can achieve both.

      • Incognito 1.5.1
        8 June 2021 at 9:39 am

        yes

      • Sabine 1.5.2
        8 June 2021 at 9:40 am

        Surely. Yeah, right Tui.

        thanks for a nice laugh.

      • gsays 1.5.3
        8 June 2021 at 10:50 am

        The irony is not lost on nurses, that several hundreds of millions can be found being the couch for out of the blue bridges, parliament buildings but not for wages for front line workers.

        Their worth has to be greater now that the migrant flow is a trickle.

    • Molly 1.6
      8 June 2021 at 10:08 am

      " Occupy one lane of the Auckland Harbour Bridge – The government will magically increase your pay offer by another $780 million"

      As I've mentioned a few times over the last few years, I am cynical of the process that goes into Auckland Transport planning. On one of their previous publications (which unfortunately I can't find online anymore) they stated in VERY fine print that they identify their list of possible projects solely from the suggestions of the public.

      From my perspective, that explains a lot about the disparity of spending and services allocated around the Auckland region. This is why we are having a strange discussion about the creation of a harbour bridge crossing for walkers and cyclists, when your much less expensive and almost able to be immediately implemented suggestion regarding purpose built buses is being ignored. People who want to ride or walk over the harbour bridge – are more vocal, have more time, have more influence and tantrums ensue when that is not recognised… The use of climate change mitigation to support the project is a cynical, self-serving one.

      The service provided by Auckland Transport to other less vocal, less time-rich, less influential areas is abysmal. No one is looking at improving those services to get people out of their cars by providing more reliable and efficient services at a reasonable cost.

      Greater Auckland – the self appointed and constantly referred to as the definitive and only expert on transport in Auckland – has little regard for improving services to areas that it does not know well, and their influence also guides both support and criticism of any Auckland Transport moves. I still consider their one-eyed criticism and celebration of the removal of Mike Lee to be one of the more harmful moves that they encouraged.

      Because of their method of project identification – which does not involve actually looking long-term at need or planned transition – but keeps an ear to the ground for public whining, Auckland Transport planning ends up being a vending machine for the well-to-do. Anyone concerned about inequality should be concerned about this.

      Comments here regarding the high – and likely to be underestimated – cost of the harbour crossing, are valid in their criticism when they refer to other possible use of that money. Whether it is nursing, or improved AT services.

      • gypsy 1.6.1
        8 June 2021 at 11:02 am

        Well said.

        "No one is looking at improving those services to get people out of their cars by providing more reliable and efficient services at a reasonable cost."

        You've nailed it. AT have chosen to pursue a strategy of maximum inconvenience to private transport (cars specifically) rather than making public transport more attractive.

        • Molly 1.6.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 11:15 am

          When decision makers are those that often have all their transport costs met as part of their employment package, and earn enough to reside within a good commutable distance to their place of employment – you end up with decisions that fail to take into account the majority of Auckland residents.

          For those that live where they can afford and commute by private transport because they must, punitive measures against private transport without the provision of better and affordable public transport options is an insult.

          • gypsy 1.6.1.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 11:39 am

            And when AT is let loose on the suburban shopping villages, creating havoc for local businesses and customer alike, locals in the more affluent suburbs have the money and power to fight back. Not so much in those less affluent areas.

            • Molly 1.6.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 11:48 am

              The existing framework supports this anomaly.

              Those who are networked and have influence are able to utilise the current system to steer attention and resource allocation to their areas. It is very rarely – if ever – that the budget is acknowledged to be required to serve all areas of Auckland, just a first-in, best served attitude. Because of this, any small measure of spending (which does not necessarily equate to improvement) in less serviced areas, is accompanied with great fanfare.

              Sometimes, it is even possible to find how that spending benefits the decision makers or developers even if at first glance it seems to be an egalitarian spend.

              • Ad …
                8 June 2021 at 3:21 pm

                In case you want to get over your own cynicism, plenty of masterplanned areas build public transport in from the beginning. The entities doing this include the Supporting Growth Alliance, Waka Kotahi, and Kainga Ora.

                If you want to see how Waka Kotahi makes these kinds of allocation and investment decisions, well, the Investment Assessment Framework used by Waka Kotahi (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-and-investment/learning-and-resources/applying-the-investment-assessment-framework/introduction-to-the-iaf/) considers both results alignment and benefit- cost appraisal outcomes. This reflects that just considering a project’s merits in terms of a BCR is pretty silly especially for complex and costly projects, and enables integrated policy outcomes to be made manifest more clear in the allocation decision.

                For the integrated public transport networks in new development areas, all the documents, Plan Changes, masterplans, and consultation documents are on their relevant websites. And granted, like Hobsonvillle, some bits work and some don't.

                • Molly …
                  8 June 2021 at 4:07 pm

                  We have many Auckland households that are struggling financially. They purchase or rent homes where they can get them, and commute to jobs that often don't meet the rising costs of living.

                  When we conduct surveys or cost-benefit analysis for transport planning, I see very little evidence that the impacts of cost, or convenience are including in making decisions.

                  Public transport is often talked about as if it is purely a personal choice, and so punitive measures to get people out of cars is used as a mechanism to reduce traffic and improve public transport patronage.

                  While that may be true for a small part of the Auckland demographic, it is not true for all. Many areas of Auckland have unreliable, relatively expensive public transport access, and the choice is not only a personal decision, but one that is based on finances and commuting time.

                  I don't really care about the harbour bridge facility. I would like some effort put towards express public transport services to various hub points in Auckland. Given the large swathes of development in some greenfields areas in the region, this should be a priority in terms of climate change transition.

                  We are pricing Aucklanders out to the regions, and then deserting them in terms of good transport planning, then blaming them for not being able "to play the political game."

                  • Ad …
                    8 June 2021 at 7:24 pm

                    Agree that Auckland is pricing people out.

                    I'm generally of the view that's a good thing: 1/3 of our population in one city is unsafe, and regions need more immigration and more support.

        • Jenny how to get there 1.6.1.2
          8 June 2021 at 3:08 pm

          I agree. Very well said indeed.

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.6.2
        8 June 2021 at 11:30 am

        Because of their method of project identification – which does not involve actually looking long-term at need or planned transition – but keeps an ear to the ground for public whining, Auckland Transport planning ends up being a vending machine for the well-to-do. Anyone concerned about inequality should be concerned about this.

        The more expensive wheels, paradoxically, have the loudest squeaks.

      • Sacha 1.6.3
        8 June 2021 at 11:53 am

        they identify their list of possible projects solely from the suggestions of the public.

        Baloney. Please google 'ATAP' – or any actual facts would help. There's even a specialist blog about it all..

        • Molly 1.6.3.1
          8 June 2021 at 12:21 pm

          Hi Sacha,

          Had a feeling you'd be replying. I don't have a inclination for hyperbole or baloney, so stand behind my initial statement.

          It was on one of their long-term plans produced a few years ago. I only found it because I was looking for some information regarding their plans for South Auckland. As I said, I can't provide a link for it.

          Perhaps you can provide one that proves that Auckland Transport has a department that systematically looks at services across Auckland, and has a full transition plan that caters to all areas that has not been initiated by the public or certain representatives, and that considers the cost impact on a city that already has many residents under financial stress due to runaway housing costs. As gypsy points out, this point is often ignored in discussions.

          IF this method has changed in the last couple of years, then all to the good.

          But following the decision making at a local level, it is not apparent that any changes have been made.

          The harbour crossing discussion is a good one to identify how justifications for high-cost but low distribution benefit projects can be made. The distribution of funding, attention and resources by Auckland Transport does not appear to provide Auckland region wide services that cater to all. Perhaps, you think it does.

          But as someone whose close attention to the surveys in the past managed to get a pitiful public transport service to the local area, (to the stated disgust of one of our local board representatives who wanted it to his local area), I can see how it works here. The public transport link service then provided, was not aligned to the commuter train and only operated after the hours of nine am and before the hours of five pm. Cynically set up to fail if possible. Schoolchildren, and workers commuting were effectively cut from the possible customer base. However, still going after a few years, mainly because of the large amount of residential development that did, and is still taking place.

          Because of that, and other incidents with our local board, I can also see the echoes of that type of decision making in such a large project as the proposed harbour crossing.

          There don't appear to be any checks that ensure need is the primary driver of projects. Or any overall framework that considers the cost impact to many Aucklanders when discussing transition.

          • Sabine 1.6.3.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 12:34 pm

            He/she/They might be talking about this? https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/auckland/auckland-transport-alignment-project/

            On 12 March the Minister of Transport, Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff released the ATAP 2021-2031 programme that invests around $31.4 billion into critical transport infrastructure and services around Auckland. It focuses on encouraging the shift from private cars to public transport, walking and cycling and addressing Auckland’s longer-term challenges of climate change and housing development.

            oh well it 'encourages'…… and it even announced a budget……

            You know what would encourage usage of public transport? Making it free. speficially for those that live in the outer suburbs and actually have a commute that is not suitable for cycling.

            And all of this only took 6 years.

            Now that is balony.

            • Molly 1.6.3.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 12:46 pm

              "You know what would encourage usage of public transport? Making it free."

              +1.

              Went to a meeting with Chris Bishop, and Matt from Greater Auckland who talked about a survey done on this topic, and who concluded that making public transport free would not have impact on improving patronage. That view seems to be now cemented in. Don’t know who was asked, whether existing public transport services were reliable, just the conclusion….

              Improving the services so that they are reliable and efficient, particularly from the outlying areas of Aucklanders that the planners opened up for developers, would be a meaningful start. There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of that in the ATAP for outlying areas.

              Also, need to make some comment regarding security. Why Auckland Transport created a ticketing system that allows non-travellers access to the platforms, I can't fathom. In a few stations, the presence of non-travellers can be somewhat intimidating with no Auckland Transport staff to be seen. Not conducive to many who travel alone in the early morning, or late evening.

              • Sabine …
                8 June 2021 at 1:27 pm

                so funny that.

                Nice – France, has a similar issue that AKL has, namely that the town is sprawling, has a small footprint wedged in between mountains and the Mediternee.

                Now somewhere in the early 2000 they decided to build a proper tram (light rail for Aucklanders) replace some busses, add new busses, and make all the trips at 1 euro dollar in the department "alpes maritimes' i.e. from Cap D'ail to Marseille on the other end.

                this is what happened when they opend – currently the price per trip is now at a1.50 Euro.

                Opened on 24 November 2007, it replaced bus lines 1, 2, 5 and 18. From the start, the system had 20 Alstom Citadis trams in service, providing a tram every seven minutes. Since its inception, the number of passengers has increased from 70,000 per day in 2008 to 90,000 per day in 2011. The frequency has gradually increased to a tram every four minutes in 2011.

                Given the success of the T1 Line, Mayor Christian Estrosi decided to create additional lines. The West-East Line is to serve the Nice Côte d'Azur Airport to the west through the construction of a multimodal center and the Port of Nice to the east. This line will run through a tunnel in the center of Nice. A future extension of the West-East line, north along the Var valley, is proposed. Another extension, running further west from the airport, across Var, is also proposed.[2] In addition, the Nice Côte d'Azur urban region decided to extend Line 1 to the Pasteur neighbourhood.

                And this actually suports your point, about 'knowing how to play the game of people in rich suburbs vs people in the outer and poorer suburbs.

                Namely a free bridge will have all these rich people cycle to work, but free trains/busses will not have the poor people use them. Right? One must be highly educated and in local / regional/country wide government to form these conclusions. Really only with a lengthy stay in University or Council can some idiocy be born.

                It is not hte can't, it is the won't that defines politics in NZ and that is also a bipartisan disease afflicting our highly paid 'representatives'.

              • McFlock …
                8 June 2021 at 2:58 pm

                Went to a meeting with Chris Bishop, and Matt from Greater Auckland who talked about a survey done on this topic, and who concluded that making public transport free would not have impact on improving patronage

                Chris Bishop the nat?

                I suppose it's always been a basic tenet of torydom that basic market forces don't apply if a proposal involves making something more affordable for poor people.

                • Molly …
                  8 June 2021 at 3:55 pm

                  Eurgh. Not Chris Bishop! Chris Darby, the councillor.

                  Thanks for pointing it out. Obviously, too long away from keyboard.

                  • McFlock …
                    8 June 2021 at 4:09 pm

                    lol that takes it from "apparent inconsistency" to "people I aren't familiar with arguing odd positions".

                    I guess it depends on the sample selection for their survey 🙂

                    • Molly …
                      8 June 2021 at 4:31 pm

                      Purely a personal viewpoint, (after engaging with hopeful enthusiasm with the Unitary Plan process and transport, and various Auckland Council staffers and representatives) is that we could do much better than the planning and priority frameworks we currently have in place.

                      We have a group of enthusiasts for great planning and transport initiatives copied from overseas, that are rightly encouraged by such projects because they do improve well-being and provide great public assets.

                      However, these benefits are not equally distributed, and we forget about the culture and landscape that has formed our communities (Auckland in particular) and how different it is from European communities that resulted from walkable distances and land scarcity. We idealise those aspects of European life, because they are a good fit for climate change transition, without addressing the fundamental misfit that many of our current (usually poorer) communities have with those places.

                      I think we need to do the grunt work first, then add on the nice to haves. There's a lot of grunt work to be done.

                      The failure of the Unitary Plan to include the promised affliated Auckland Design Manual as a means to ensure quality, is a notable moment. \

                      Those who support intensification – alongside good access to services and community assets, while meeting quality standards – were let down by this removal.

                      Those who think intensification – on its own – is a virtue, seem to think this is of no concern. But then, I don't think they often end up residing in the result.

                      Fixing this is not simple, but the issue is especially complicated by the fact that inequality in this regard is often not considered a problem at all.

              • Ad …
                8 June 2021 at 3:14 pm

                The largest Auckland train stations are already ticket-only access, and they gate more each year. Unlikely all of the small ones will ever be.

                Forget ATAP. It's a pain in the ass document with no standing, or indeed much impact on budget prioritisation.

                The RLTP and NLTP lists are the ones that are statutorily funded to be done.

                • Molly …
                  8 June 2021 at 3:51 pm

                  " Unlikely all of the small ones will ever be."

                  And yet those are the ones where security for lone travellers is sorely needed.

          • Sacha 1.6.3.1.2
            8 June 2021 at 5:44 pm

            Your anecdata vs transport policy expertise..

            Fundamental ignorance is fine when it's kept private but it will not be met with either silence or a 101-level backgrounder when spread in public forums where there are many more readers than commenters.

            • Molly 1.6.3.1.2.1
              8 June 2021 at 6:31 pm

              "Your anecdata vs transport policy expertise.."

              Fair criticism, but one that doesn't allow for the possibility that the current framework does not result in good transport policy, or that it is influenced by political lobbying rather than assessed need.

              So, in terms of delivery – the harbour crossing is a project to celebrate, yet we still have poor public transport access in many parts of Auckland. Not to mention the ongoing saga of the Southern Motorway refit. The Manukau motorway interchange that creates more than one pinch point makes you wonder where those transport experts were when it was designed. The terminal of Manukau branch line that ends at the new location for part of the Manukau Institute of Technology that requires south Aucklanders to overshoot Manukau and return back via another line are basic design flaws.

              I am using my 'anecdata' to give light to concerns I have about process. You have not addressed either the failure to measure benefit distribution for the proposed harbour crossing, or shown me that AT or Waka Kotahi performs any comprehensive review of managing resources across Auckland so that benefits are adequately spread.

              I understand that many here are rightfully engaged with planning and planning processes and encouraged to see some projects that have long-term benefits being proposed and implemented.

              However, I still believe that there are many in Auckland who are unrepresented or advocated for, and that the current system does not either recognise this or make mitigation to rectify it. In his comments, Ad seems to delight in the fact that successful advocacy produces results and blames non-advocacy on inertia. I think this produces inequalities, and inequality can never be best practice.

              Apparently, you believe the current system is best practice. In that we will likely not agree.

              “Fundamental ignorance is fine when it’s kept private but it will not be met with either silence or a 101-level backgrounder when spread in public forums where there are many more readers than commenters.”

              Consider me chastened but not out, I consider the considered listening to members of the public to be important to good planning, the technical details of implementation require the experts. Many advocates and local body representatives who are decision makers are also not schooled in planning or transport design, but make decisions based on their own ‘anecdata’. All you have to do is have conversations with them to see the truth of this statement.

              You could also discuss the initial issue, whether the harbour crossing is good value in terms of the distribution of benefit and the cost.

        • gypsy 1.6.3.2
          8 June 2021 at 12:27 pm

          The problem with the quote Molly used is the word 'solely'. From my experience, AT do solicit ideas from the public, but this is not an authentic process. As with so much of the way AC operates, consultation is used as a shield to hide a predetermined ideology, rather than a genuine attempt to engage.

          • Molly 1.6.3.2.1
            8 June 2021 at 12:40 pm

            Fair call. I used the word 'solely' because after searching I could not find any reference to any other method. That does not mean it does not exist.

            Would like to point out though, that many projects have a long incubation period and the origins of them get lost over time. For example, the current large spend on the Drury station can be traced over a decade ago to courier articles covering the request of a high-school student for an upgrade.

            The high-school student was initially one of a pair. The other student being a relative of a local board representative, who has business connections and landholdings in the area. This representative also worked for Auckland Transport, and still is a local representative. I'm making no accusation of corruption here. Just stating that those that are familiar with the levers of resource allocation, are able to utilise that knowledge to suit what they envision.

            From a personal point of view, any transition framework that looked at improving public transport choices for the Franklin region, including those whom are living in the recently developed areas of Waiuku, would identify the currently being developed Paerata as a better hub for the long-term, given the existing railway line to Waiuku that currently services the Glenbrook Steel Mill and has by virtue of the Glenbrook Vintage Railway, also extended that line into Waiuku itself. I suggested this back in 2011, and the aforementioned public representative criticised this suggestion in a public meeting, so I put my hand up and admitted to it. It stayed on the list for a while. Haven't bothered looking lately, too much of a cynic and better things to spend my time on.

            • gypsy 1.6.3.2.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 1:10 pm

              yes

              • greywarshark …
                8 June 2021 at 6:29 pm

                gypsy Authorities…do solicit ideas from the public, but this is not an authentic process. As with so much of the way AC operates, consultation is used as a shield to hide a predetermined ideology, rather than a genuine attempt to engage.

                You have expressed the situation exactly. It is a charade, and a very expensive one. Our recent Long Term Plan had endless 'books' of explanation double sided sheets with coloured image covers etc.

                And we still get stuck with a $44 million spend on a new library, (and I love books and the great librarians who deal with them and are available for advice on research if needed.) Most people think that is too expensive and the options also.

                Councils I read about seem hell-bent on borrowing while credit is so cheap. But the economy is on a downward curve and the climate change storms and woes are on an upward one. These things have to be paid for over future years and with costs going up the rates are up, and the Councils are blithely forecasting cumulative rises. It doesn't register with the majority that allowing the housing market to be the main business operating in NZ is like selling the family silver. We actually are keeping the country afloat with a Ponzi-type scheme. The facts we are fed are not the important ones for citizens, only the handy checks for those in business to see what value the $ has today, and what the market is reacting to.

            • Ad 1.6.3.2.1.2
              8 June 2021 at 3:10 pm

              Paerata is a station that is funded within the Supporting Growth Alliance. Not that hard to google.

              Fine to be cynical, but not out of wilful ignorance.

              • Molly …
                8 June 2021 at 3:52 pm

                "Paerata is a station that is funded within the Supporting Growth Alliance. Not that hard to google."

                Not really interested continuing to follow this. I know Paerata is on the current list of works, and the level of development it is in line for compared to Drury.

                As mentioned, the other thing I know, because I was a participant in the process was that I was the singular submitter identifying Paerata as an ideal place to develop as a public transport hub almost a decade ago. I also know, that at least one subsequent public meeting this submission was ridiculed by our local board Chairman. At which point I mentioned that it was actually me that had done so.

                I also know, that at a later stage, the same person took credit for identifying Paerata as a possible hub – because it makes sense – and some effort went into maintaining it on the list. However, the bulk of attention and funding has gone into developing two stations for Drury, while – to my mind, Paerata is strategically better in terms of climate change transition given it is the location of the branch line to many thousands of new residents that have moved to Waiuku and its surrounds due to large scale residential developments that have been permitted – and encouraged – by local planners.

                Landowners in Drury are now looking to have a landuse change of hundreds of hectares of land to residential – which thanks to the decision to development Drury station – now has the backing of access to public transport links to support it.

                Yes, I'm cynical. But if given the choice to support a framework that considered all Auckland residents, I would throw my cynicism aside in a moment to support it.

                • Ad …
                  8 June 2021 at 7:19 pm

                  Plenty complain about the lack of Auckland housing provision, and yet when developers do a masterplan with thousands of houses on it integrated into rail public transport, you revert to cynicism. It's occurring in both brownfields metro and greenfields development at the same time.

                  The Auckland Plan was the most comprehensive and democratised framework for planning that Auckland has ever had. Not sure where you were.

                  Naturally you don't have to support anything. But there's no shortage of routes to engage if you want.

                  • Molly …
                    8 June 2021 at 7:48 pm

                    " and yet when developers do a masterplan with thousands of houses on it integrated into rail public transport, you revert to cynicism. "

                    No, I'm suggesting that the identification of Drury for public transport investment over other possibly better options was a result of lobbying and influence rather than an example of prime forward planning. If we had a system of taxing the uplift in capital equity that results from rezoning, we would have a significant fund for state and social housing. The Unitary Plan team briefly considered this mechanism before discarding it without public discussion.

                    " The Auckland Plan was the most comprehensive and democratised framework for planning that Auckland has ever had. Not sure where you were. "

                    Stayed through to the bitter end, when only the self-interested and developers were left standing. Democratically washed, ultimately same beneficiaries. The failure of the Unitary Plan to require adherence to the Auckland Design Manual was indicative of where all that democracy ended up. All the way through consultation the ADM was proposed to be the insurance to ensure quality. It ended up as a reference manual only.

      • Ad 1.6.4
        8 June 2021 at 3:26 pm

        They've just done the budget where they made those tradeoffs at a Departmental allocation level.

        The main issue at a political budget level is that this government can basically count on the state sector unions to always vote for them every single time – so they have zero political leverage and are no longer in play politically.

        The areas of politics still in play for this government – like transport – get more oil simply because they are better at politics.

        • Sacha 1.6.4.1
          8 June 2021 at 5:49 pm

          Transport (including huge highway projects) is also where Labour's timid centrism makes it keep promising and spending as if they lost the election, not won it. Won't see the police budget being cut any time for the same reason.

          • Ad 1.6.4.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 5:56 pm

            I don't see this government as timid due to the scale of their spending, and breadth of their reforms.

            But generally agree. Budgets help you get re-elected.

            • Sacha 1.6.4.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 6:05 pm

              Compared with the scale of what is needed to tackle climate change and poverty, their efforts are piffling.

              • Ad …
                8 June 2021 at 7:15 pm

                You might want to wait until they come out with their Net Zero By 2040 plan, which is due out this week.

                Given the blowback on cycling in the MSM and indeed here, I'm not convinced our voters will let them go any faster or harder.

    • gypsy 1.7
      8 June 2021 at 10:50 am

      You've made my day. Thank you!

  2. Jenny How to get there 2
    8 June 2021 at 7:35 am

    ‘
    While cyclists feel the love.

    Nurses feel hurt

    Nurse fears for 'exhausted' profession as colleagues gear up for strike

    Harry Lock 1 hour ago

    ……"It's one thing I really do not want to do, but if it's the only way we're going to get an improvement, it's the only thing we can do."

    Nurse fears for 'exhausted' profession as colleagues gear up for strike (msn.com)

    • Treetop 2.1
      8 June 2021 at 9:36 am

      Exhausted nurses are more likely to make mistakes and some mistakes can cause irreversible harm.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 2.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 5:14 pm

        Exhausted is just the PR and media headline.

        The cost seems to 17% pay rise and the exhaustion goes away …for another day.

        • Treetop 2.1.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 6:32 pm

          The only thing going away is NZ trained nurses heading overseas.

          By giving a good pay rise, retaining nurses can be fixed and more people would choose a nursing career.

  3. Sacha 3
    8 June 2021 at 8:37 am

    Really does not matter how many times anyone explains how govt actually works, does it. And we wonder why change is difficult to get.

    • Incognito 3.1
      8 June 2021 at 8:48 am

      When it doesn’t fit the narrative, people don’t want to hear it, don’t want to know it, and don’t want to change it, least of all their own believes and convictions. In this good-old binary world of us vs. them, it is always somebody else’s problem and fault.

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.2
      8 June 2021 at 8:57 am

      When successive governments, including this lot, constantly bang on about budgets and priorities they are the ones setting one group off against another.

      I don't understand why folks don't understand this.

      • RosieLee 3.2.1
        8 June 2021 at 9:16 am

        Yes.

      • Sabine 3.2.2
        8 June 2021 at 9:41 am

        +1

      • Molly 3.2.3
        8 June 2021 at 10:10 am

        +1

      • JO 3.2.4
        8 June 2021 at 10:31 am

        I don't understand why folks don't understand that we have the power to choose how to think. Folks can either choose to be pliable followers of one group or another, or we could stop blaming whoever's currently 'banging on', take a scary leap into freedom and make up our own minds.

      • Incognito 3.2.5
        8 June 2021 at 10:40 pm

        Many here seem to think that politics means and is intended to please all and everyone at the same time all the time. No wonder their commentary is so confused.

        • weka 3.2.5.1
          8 June 2021 at 11:25 pm

          No-one actually thinks that though do they.

          • Incognito 3.2.5.1.1
            9 June 2021 at 7:44 am

            Yes and no. What is the definition and purpose of politics? How do commenters here perceive it? The answers are important and coupled to binary thinking of us vs. them and alleged zero-sum systems and processes they dictate much if not all of their commentary. So, they might as well think in the ridiculous way I described, for all intents and purposes.

    • Jenny How to get there 3.3
      8 June 2021 at 10:01 am

      "That's not how government works"

      Pontius Pilate 36 AD

    • gsays 3.4
      8 June 2021 at 10:53 am

      Does the Government need more communication facilitators?

      • Sabine 3.4.1
        8 June 2021 at 11:23 am

        Yes we surely do need some more Press Secretaries and other State owned Stenographers., There are some that are not quite yet on the 'all is well on the kindness and gentleness boat'.

        • gypsy 3.4.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 12:28 pm

          You’ve been reading Andrea Vance? :>

          • Sabine 3.4.1.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 12:39 pm

            well, is what she said incorrect?

            I personally don't know her, have no beef with her, but unless she outright lied, she might actually has a point, and considering that the ombudsman/women upheld her complaints, it might just be that she has a point.

            But funnily the only reason i read this article was the frothing at the seams a few days ago when someone linked to it, and everyone else was just bashing the writer without ever actually mentioning hte article. And so i did read it.

            And it does appear that the government now owns a whole lot of press secretaries and state owned stenographers more then the government before that. 🙂

            But yeah, if we had more press secretaries surely we would all be singing kumbaya in our boat that is build of kindness and gentleness and no glue.

            • gypsy 3.4.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 1:06 pm

              I'm old enough to know the business of politics is dodgy at the best of times, but AV has been around a long time, and when a journo with her experience expresses concerns such as these, we really do need to at least pay attention.

  4. Pat 4
    8 June 2021 at 9:14 am

    There is no easy way out for the government for they cannot fuel wage inflation through public sector increases and they cannot increase progressive taxation as they will not be reelected….sadly for all of us the only option is a continuation of the churn of population as the international market place for labour swaps out those able/willing to chase the rewards where they can….and that model is currently hamstrung by covid.

    There will only be sops.

    • Jenny How to get there 4.1
      8 June 2021 at 12:14 pm

      Wages increases are called inflationary = ‘Bad’

      Profit increases are called growth = ‘Good’

      I mean who decides this?

      And does it depend from where they are sitting?

      • Pat 4.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 3:17 pm

        Who decides?….the powers that be I suppose. It always depends upon where you sit but the curious thing is the rhetoric around needing to increase wages for all manner of reasons but when the time comes to act it appears there are compelling reasons why it cannot occur.

        They have however attempted to move the floor up but they appear determined to restrict incomes of the middle to upper waged/salaried which with an open border with Australia may cause them some difficulty.

        If they are waiting for a lead from our trading partners they may be waiting in vain.

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5
    8 June 2021 at 9:23 am

    On a positive note….Happy Aotearoa Nuclear Free Declaration day!

    Arguably our finest hour.

    • Jenny How to get there 5.1
      8 June 2021 at 9:37 am

      We have had many finest hours.

      Votes for women.

      The Welfare State

      Nuclear Free

      Covid Free

      • Jenny How to get there 5.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 9:41 am

        I might add; Every single one of these 'finest hours' has been opposed by the Right and Championed by the Left.

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.2
        8 June 2021 at 9:53 am

        Votes for women. And shamefully high rates of domestic violence and sexual abuse.

        The Welfare State Hmmm…failure of this government to enact all WEAG reccomendations.

        Nuclear Free AFAIK, still holding strong.

        Covid Free Time will tell how effective (in the long term) our response has been.

        • Sabine 5.1.2.1
          8 June 2021 at 9:57 am

          We are NOT Covid 'free'.

          We have Covid contained in the MIQ facilities. And we bring a little bit of Covid here every time we allow some more people in from overseas.

  6. mpledger 6
    8 June 2021 at 9:36 am

    I don't understand why people flying back from Melbourne/Victoria don't have to go into quarantine on arrival. Melbourne has an outbreak with a virus mutation that can't be traced to the boarder so it's unknown how far and wide it's traveled in the community before being noticed. And while passengers have to have a covid test before they come (within 3 days of traveling IIRC) that doesn't get over the fact that traveling across borders is the most likely place to get it. A good strategy came with some good luck but we can't rely on luck in place of a strategy.

    (and it's a more infectious version of covid-19 as well – we should be taking even more care to keep it out – it's only a few months or so till everyone can get vaccinated.)

    • Sabine 6.1
      8 June 2021 at 9:41 am

      but we were told the risk is 'low', so surely that must mean 'acceptable'.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 11:05 am

        Who is in charge of the Covid19 response now? Is it still Director of Health? Ashley Bloomfield. Or is he on recuperative leave for a year or something and NBA has now resumed (Normal Bland Assurance)?

        I want the Crimson Assurance! These are men of mettle and muster all their powers to fight the forces of whatever needs fighting.

        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSO9OFJNMBA

    • alwyn 6.2
      8 June 2021 at 10:17 am

      I read your comment and was agreeing with it until I came to the last few words " it's only a few months or so till everyone can get vaccinated.". Yeah right. I will be surprised if we get anywhere near 50% having had one jab by the end of the year. The record so far really doesn't give one any faith does it?

      However we are supposed to believe that if people have had a negative test within 72 hours of the flight everything is OK and thousands of people can simply go free and untested when they get back here.

      What could possibly go wrong? The golfers among us can answer that. Look at Jon Rahm in the PGA event The Memorial Tournament held last week.

      On Monday he was advised that he had been in contact with someone who had tested positive for Covid 19. He was tested and was negative. He was tested again on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. All were negative. No problems huh? Then on Saturday, just after the third round of a Tournament that he was leading by a margin of 6 strokes he was tested again and had a positive. He was immediately withdrawn from the event and went into isolation. He showed no symptoms.

      Compare that to what we are doing. A single test which can be taken while they have 72 hours remaining in Melbourne. That's it. No further test required. No isolation. No nothing. Well I, at least am not impressed. I might be willing to accept it if I had been vaccinated, or at least had had the chance of vaccination but I haven't. I haven't and I can't even get a date when I really might be able to get it.

      It is all very well for Ministers like Little, Hipkins and Verrall to tell us everything is sweet. They, after all, had their vaccinations months ago and don't have to worry. Well I am worried. I am in the age group where catching the disease can have very serious risks and where death is a quite likely possibility. Well stuff it. Our Government has an obligation to protect people like me. It doesn't have to concentrate there efforts on not inconveniencing people who chose to travel to Melbourne of their own free will.

      • swordfish 6.2.1
        8 June 2021 at 4:48 pm

        Agree … casual, lax attitude … real complacency.

        My Parents (89 & 90 … one with diabetes & hypertension … so very high-risk) have just been told by their GP they'll have to wait until late July or August … meanwhile two of their acquaintances (in their mid-late 60s) have already had the first jab.

        Pretty bloody useless organisation, I'd say.

  7. Morrissey 7
    8 June 2021 at 9:57 am

    All donations and bequests to Daisycutter Sports Inc. are requested to be paid, from now on, in Bitcoin…

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/picture-shows-human-races-weird-new-bitcoin-phase/M2GPFLMB4GPMCXD43X7DQBXLDI/

  8. KSaysHi 8
    8 June 2021 at 10:40 am

    Personally I'm hoping that certain types of disabilities are given $ to buy their own places since neither the govt or private landlords are willing to provide them. In my mind this is a much better use of money than chucking more towards a rental market that doesn't give a f***

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/accommodation-supplement-ends-up-going-towards-landlords-is-under-review-grant-robertson/ar-AAKfxy0?ocid=UP97DHP&li=BBqdk7Q

    The Accommodation Supplement is being looked at closely as part of a wider review of the Working for Families scheme, the Finance Minister has revealed.

    "What we do know about the Working for Families system is it's been in place now for the best part of 15 years – well, 16 years," he told Newshub Nation.

    "It's actually a system that's served New Zealand well, but within it, there are components that I think everybody would question, the Accommodation Supplement being a really obvious one – very important for supporting people's needs, but a real question mark about whether it's the best way to deliver accommodation support, given that it tends to end up going towards landlords ultimately."

    Finally!

    AS doesn’t work for people who own their own properties either as they can’t afford the upkeep on what they are given, and end up having to downsize (eventually to caravans). Again, it’s the long term disabled who suffer most.

    • Rosemary McDonald 8.1
      8 June 2021 at 11:47 am

      I'm hoping that certain types of disabilities are given $ to buy their own places …

      Back in the day, Kay, there were State Advances loans which did just that.

      A part of our history we can be proud of…now disappearing into a black hole.(Follow the link to Te Ara's main page and type in "State Advances Loans" into the Search box.)

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/1966/finance-public/page-9

      • ghostwhowalksnz 8.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 5:24 pm

        From your link…. 'small incomes' were ordinary working people not disabled as such…they would have been steered to State house rentals which were available for a wider range of people…I remember a single aunt who was a lifetime tenant of a bed-sit in a block of around 20 , and she had a full time job.

        My parents received a state advances loan as the banking system wasnt set up for ordinary people, and even the savings banks would only lend to long time customers and who had large deposits …maybe 20%.

        There were economic reasons for the regulated banking system , as the banks certainly couldnt raise money offshore which is done now and the government rules meant it funded a lot of its internal borrowing from banking and insurance companies, not leaving much for low income lending.

        • Rosemary McDonald 8.1.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 7:11 pm

          As I wrote….the link one would expect to take you to the TeAra site expanding on the State Advances Loan scheme is not there. Fuck knows where it has gone.

          Pity, because I know of at least three significantly physically disabled people who purchased their first home through the 'State Advances' some forty five or so years ago. Only one of these people was working full time. The other was on a lowish income. This was in the days before ACC. Even then there were moves afoot (pun intended) to free the foobarred and infirm from the 'institutions' and facilitate them living in the community.

          As Kay says… since neither the govt or private landlords are willing to provide them … it made sense to free up the $$$ so folk could sort their own housing shit out.

          And back then one could apply for a suspensory loan for basic modifications, and service groups like Lions and Rotary were even known to step up and pitch in.

          Ah, the good old days.

          • ghostwhowalksnz 8.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2021 at 5:30 pm

            Really …convenient That Te Ara has rewrote history just for you

  9. weka 9
    8 June 2021 at 10:48 am

    Also, anyone without kids isn’t part of WFF, so GR is making me nervous there.

    • greywarshark 9.1
      8 June 2021 at 11:14 am

      I have a statement on housing of decades ago referring to the most disadvantaged in NZ, the poorest were single women.

      • Sabine 9.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 11:28 am

        Yes, single women and single women with children. And they are poor because that female poverty is baked in. Be it in lesser pay during their working days, no pay during their child rearing years, little to no pay as care givers, thus no savings, etc.

        But surely these women just need to get themselves a provider. Right? Al problems solved, just find yourself a meal ticket to keep and hold forever.

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 11:53 am

          It is single women without children who are the poorest, they have no emotional response from government to call on. Let's face it gummint has given up on caring for people at all, except if they are politically essential for votes. So older people are okay and there is still emotional involvement with them as the pollies own parents will still be alive.

          But to get any care or notice from gummint the socially responsible have to call on the example of children's poverty you notice. Adult poverty doesn't count any more under this hard neolib regime thought up by male economists with their eyes fixed on political movements rather than people. They were concerned about totaliatarianism? more ie Hayek and Friedman. Then comes womens lib which gets better conditions for middle class women university graduates etc., not all women. Then there is Ayn Rand escaping to USA from Russia, its historical practices, I think it had pogroms, its religionosity? and its patriarchal attitudes to women, so publishes with Braden, The Virtue of Selfishness.

          The trend is away from sharing and enjoying life with others at different levels, its all for narrow upward mobility, maximum efficiency at squeezing profit and going for set percentages of return no matter what. Cool business heads that can break through any emotional plea for reasonable wages to enable pleasant living conditions.

          The NZ PTB listened to the wiles of Treasury and the cool financiers, and switched off the heating in their own brains. That is why they are so cold-blooded now, I think it is an early evolutionary step towards becoming snakes or lizards. After all they called the lead character in film Wall Street, Gordon Gekko. Rowling introduced a snake, Nagini, into her Harry Potter books which are about the duality of life.

          • Sabine 9.1.1.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 12:02 pm

            Well surely our current government will do something? Like re-instating the women over 50 benefit, or the widowers benefit, or really just put the benefit to about 500 (after tax) per week with the option of earning another 300 without abatement rates so that a beneficiary could potentially reach the 'min wage'.

            Surely a Government that has poverty reduction at its heart will do such a thing, right? Cause it is the kind and gentle thing to do? Oh yeah, crickets. Here have a benefit increase that was asked for in 2019, and that will now be paid out in instalments – the last one to coincide with the anual increase of benefits rates. (i think that benefit increase will just be absorbed and certainly not added on, but we can discuss this next year in April).

    • Sabine 9.2
      8 June 2021 at 11:26 am

      Grant Robertson should make anyone nervous. Any time the guy opens his mouth.

      • Molly 9.2.1
        8 June 2021 at 11:30 am

        +1. I've never had much time for him myself.

      • Ad 9.2.2
        8 June 2021 at 3:40 pm

        Grant Robertson is by a long way the most generous Minister of Finance we've had since Walter Nash working with PM's Savage and Peter Fraser.

        • Herodotus 9.2.2.1
          8 June 2021 at 6:39 pm

          Generous to those who are multi home owners ONLY increased 37% or $300,000 increase in the last 2 years since labour took office. Yes Robertson has been VERY generous. How many here just love to support and accept this government without any critical analysis.

          So our PM has said there is no money ""In this Covid environment, just as with the GFC, we are in a position where we are financially constrained."- Does she not listen to her Fin minister or unable to understand. Net core debt $2.6BILLION less than foercast – We are better off than expected !!!!

          "“The continued strength of the economy and confidence in the recovery has meant the Crown’s financial accounts are in better shape than expected,” Grant Robertson said."

          Now what is the next excuse to be wheeled out and some here will blindly support.

          https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2106/S00028/crown-accounts-reflect-govt-focus-on-securing-recovery.htm

          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/05/house-prices-increase-21-percent-as-govt-reserve-bank-changes-fail-to-hit-market.html

          • Ad 9.2.2.1.1
            8 June 2021 at 7:08 pm

            Apparently your point, somewhere in there, is that the government should spend more money.

            • Herodotus 9.2.2.1.1.1
              8 June 2021 at 7:23 pm

              That the government has more money than it thought it would have a few months ago. So the government and our PM is being disingenuous with its reasoning for the nurses pay, and that your comment is misdirected in its "innocence ", in who has been the recipient of its generosity. I note it was to the teachers and now the nurses who are being told there is no money, both sectors that are heavily female.

              In being so generous what the social costs are and will be that we as a society will be paying for generations to come, and a little guilty money being paid to a few beneficiaries to keep our government happy.

              • Ad …
                8 June 2021 at 7:26 pm

                Yup fair point.

                Both Ardern and Rpbertson areconstantly referring to nation-smacking crises as a reason to keep more in reserve. They now appear to be hitting us once a year.

                But you still have a fair point.

        • RosieLee 9.2.2.2
          8 June 2021 at 7:59 pm

          crying

  10. Adrian Thornton 10
    8 June 2021 at 10:56 am

    Here is a good conversation with the important political author Thomas Frank on the current Liberal obsession with censoring anything that moves that does not agree with their world view….

    • ghostwhowalksnz 10.1
      8 June 2021 at 5:32 pm

      Censoring of 'views' has always existed, its just the social media world has made a wider range available for some who seek them out. Doesnt mean they are all getting into the MSM

      The US in the 1950s was the McCarthy era when anyone with a left wing viewpoint was hounded out of Hollywood and the media.

      The 1960s saw the counter culture forced to rely on its own outlets and phamplets and when small NYC newspapers like The Village Voice grew into popularity.

  11. Sabine 11
    8 June 2021 at 11:36 am

    oh well, surely one day the prices are gonna drop…..one day soon!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/125370891/trade-me-property-asking-prices-jump-17-per-cent

    The average asking price for houses increased 17 per cent year-on-year in May to reach a record $820,950, Trade Me says.

    Trade Me property sales director Gavin Lloyd said May was usually when the property market began to cool off ahead of the winter months, but that didn’t seem to be the case this year.

    “New Zealand house prices continued their record-breaking streak, hitting an all-time high for the ninth consecutive month in May.”

    Increased demand and the lack of available properties on the market were driving the increases, with site traffic up 2 per cent nationwide last month, compared to April. Supply was down by 3 per cent, he said.

  12. Sabine 12
    8 June 2021 at 11:57 am

    oh this makes for some laughing out loud reading. But the reader must be careful as this might be considered satire by some, and simply politics as usual by others, or maybe politics is just satire. Who knows in these trying times.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/125367733/transports-of-delight-for-freewheeling-spenders

    Some Wellington children will be getting a cycle lane near their school, thanks to Waka Kotahi. This organisation, whose name many people wrongly translate as meaning “Cars are No 1”, was formerly the New Zealand Transport Agency.

    Calls for a cycleway began years ago when a child was knocked off their bike on the busy road on the way to school. Recently, concerned parents and some cycling activists, one of whom was the knocked-over child, now 29 and doing a masters in urban planning, decided, after years of waiting for a protected cycle lane, to take matters into their own hands.

    They deposited a few planter boxes on the side of the road, thereby creating their own little cycle lane. Local kids were delighted, but some residents were not………………..

    “That would be illegal,” explained Bridgeport-Flyover. “Allow guerrilla cycle lanes and, before you know it, New Zealanders will be breaking the law in other ways, like swearing in their homes, smoking pot at parties and drinking alcohol before they are 18. Total anarchy will ensue!”

    Are we likely to see other cycleways in Wellington receive Waka Kotahi funding? “Unlikely, given they’ve blown the entire cycling budget for the next 10 years on this one,” replied Sir Kingston.

    • Ad 12.1
      8 June 2021 at 3:07 pm

      Poor old Sabine. If you couldn't see that "Sir Bridgeport-Flyover" was a satire itself, you're not in the right game.

      There are thankfully tonnes more cycle lanes that are funded by NZTA, in Wellington.

      I covered all of this in a post a week ago. If you can't keep up, inhale into a paper bag for a bit.

      • Sabine 12.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 8:31 pm

        But the reader must be careful as this might be considered satire by some, and simply politics as usual by others, or maybe politics is just satire. Who knows in these trying times.

        yes, dear.

  13. greywarshark 13
    8 June 2021 at 11:59 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018798247/holistic-education-good-for-everyone

    …We're trying to help teachers deepen their understanding of how that relates to socio-emotional wellbeing and how to adapt and maybe reframe some of what they already do… in ways that more explicitly enable [socio-emotional] learning for young people."

    The researchers are especially interested in how children themselves perceive wellbeing, belonging and relationship skills, she says.

    Language around emotion and wellbeing is "quite linguistically based", Professor Finkel says, so kids often need help developing their own emotional vocabulary.

    ie People need to learn from childhood how to talk about their problems and understand themselves, and then they can understand others as well. It would be particularly good for boys and men who seem to go around in a bubble quite often.

  14. Sabine 14
    8 June 2021 at 3:27 pm

    no matter what they just can't help themselves.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125372846/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says-nurses-wanted-17-per-cent-pay-increase-government-financially-constrained

    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says the nurses’ union wanted a 17 per cent pay increase for all nurses, but the Government is strapped for cash.

    The New Zealand Nurses Organisation, which represents 30,000 nurses working in Government district health boards, has rejected a second pay offer and its members will go on a nationwide eight-hour strike on Wednesday over pay and working conditions.

    The Government in April offered a “reasonable and responsible” a deal, which the union said would give “most members” a salary increase “little more than 1.38 per cent, just under the rate of inflation”. The offer was overwhelmingly rejected by the union on Monday.

    cycling for the few or well paid nurses…, americas cup for the few or well paid nurses,

    refurbishment of their offices or well paid nurses, Nurses and medical staff that we need considering we are in the times of a pandemic, nurses and staff that OZ is happy to take of us, as would England or the US for that matter, ………wants vs needs.

    Or maybe the dear nurses just need to understand that they had their once a decade largesse rained down on them in 2018 and now they need to just come around to accept that its gonna take another decade for the next round of 'government largesse'.

    I wonder how much the Press Secretaries and the Labour Stenographers are paid?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/363551/nurses-latest-pay-offer-accept-what-you-need-to-know

    • Ad 14.1
      8 June 2021 at 3:36 pm

      That nursing union had better figure out how to win.

      If they can't turn all that Covid 19 public health emotion and righteousness into a decent winning campaign, they need to resign.

      The question you are taking too long to get to is this:

      How can the cyclists win but the nurses can't?

      Therein is the tale of effective advocacy.

      • Sabine 14.1.1
        8 June 2021 at 4:07 pm

        Well, i guess the nurses just have to run over a police barricade, while on their expensive bikes, creating a bit of a traffic issues on an otherwise ordinary sunday, and voila bingo the government is again reminded that it needs Auckland to win, b ut nurses are optional and thus can be imported as cheap as possible by the government……:) (oh and be white while doing all this lawbreaking while cycling is also helpful to not get arrested, not get fined, not get done for 'resisting police orders' and such).

        I suggest that the nurses go on strike and stay on strike. That is the only thing this government deserves.

        As for health care i would suggest that any booboos the Labour lot has should be looked at by a cyclist – any cyclist will do, cause nurses are a ‘nice to have but not really needed’ item on the agenda of the Labour lot.

        • Ad 14.1.1.1
          8 June 2021 at 7:12 pm

          Striking is exceedingly unlikely to get the nurses what they want.

          They need a campaign manager that knows how to win.

          Now, nurses on bikes. That would get some attention.

      • greywarshark 14.1.2
        8 June 2021 at 7:31 pm

        What occurs to me is that the cyclists are frequently a mostly male group. The nurses are a mostly female group. Males and females come at things in different ways. Males know they should have things, and expect to get them. Females believe they should have things, and that they deserve them, and expect to get treated fairly, and their hurt feelings don't register as adequate justification.

  15. greywarshark 15
    8 June 2021 at 7:40 pm

    My Auckland rellies thought the idea of having a port at Whangarei was crazy. This must be how most NZs decide on their voting preferences. Quick decisions based on commonsense.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/444236/exporters-seek-urgent-solutions-over-constricted-global-supply-chains

    Ships aren't coming our way like they used to. And ports are congested. Commonsense answer – give them a good dose of Vicks. Hah hah.

    Any ideas about having some of our own ships with capacity for containers, a homegrown sea transport system to be little brother to our airline?

    Feb. 2021 https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2102/S00004/on-the-case-for-investing-in-coastal-shipping.htm
    The enduring damage done by the economic reforms of the 1980/1990s is still playing out in the communities that lost thousands of well-paid full time jobs, and with a subsequent influx of drugs, domestic violence and mental health problems. A far less visible victim of the market mania for de-regulation has been coastal shipping. As Maritime Union national secretary Craig Harrison recently pointed out:

    We had 34 New Zealand flagged ships in 1994. Today we have just one Kiwi flagged container ship. That’s an incredible loss. We used to protect our coastal shipping by requiring domestic freight to be shipped only by New Zealand registered vessels operating under New Zealand law. We did this because we recognised shipping was vital to our economic interests. When that protection was removed in the deregulation of the 1990’s, the fleet dwindled in the face of international companies, running crews who weren’t protected by New Zealand’s minimum employment standards.

    and back a bit –

    Apr 2010 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/ports-there-will-be-blood/LP7ORAETC6XS6VW73CRXXDCBBU/

  16. KJT 16
    9 June 2021 at 9:33 am

    Disappointing that so many on here are dissing an attempt to build long lasting infrastructure in Auckland, that will make a big difference to Auckland's emissions for decades.

    It seem it is never the right time to spend money on AGW mitigation, despite all the talk from many on here.

    BTW. Paying nurses more is current expenditure, while the bridge is long term investment which will pay off far into the future. Two different things.

    • Incognito 16.1
      9 June 2021 at 11:03 pm

      yes

      BTW. Paying nurses more is current expenditure, while the bridge is long term investment which will pay off far into the future. Two different things.

      Correct, of course, but some here seem to think that all Taxpayers’ dollars go into one big hat so that the Great Magician can pull rabbits out of the hat until all rabbits have been pulled. That’s the rabbit hole that many (here) have fallen into. In other words, it is all the same!