Open mike 09/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 9th, 2022 - 208 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

208 comments on “Open mike 09/06/2022 ”

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  1. Pataua4life 1
    9 June 2022 at 7:04 am

    Gutten Tag from Austria.

    No masks, no mandates' life is normal in Europe. Weather is warm.

    Things are cheap as compared to NZ.

    [No follow-up response received to Mod notes; take the 2 weeks off and enjoy your trip – Incognito]

  2. pat 2
    9 June 2022 at 7:08 am

    Coming to a town near you.

    "For the next four months, a doctor will be available just three days a week at the medical centre, instead of five, and many of those consultations will be by video, not in person."

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cuts-to-gp-service-alarm-west-coast-town

    • Ad 2.1
      9 June 2022 at 7:29 am

      The NZ growth in video doctor consults is massive. Do it from your bed!

    • weka 2.2
      9 June 2022 at 7:36 am

      People will still be able to make appointments to see Reefton’s rural nurse specialist and practice nurse, including on weekends and holidays, and they will be available on-call for emergencies.

      I would have thought teleconsults could be done from Chch too, so it's not entirely clear what is happening here.

    • weka 2.3
      9 June 2022 at 7:37 am

      Best way I can think of to get a GP to live in that area would be to gift them some land with a decent house on it.

      • alwyn 2.3.1
        9 June 2022 at 9:22 am

        The problem is that if you have "a" GP they never get time off. They are on call 24 hours of every day and holidays become almost impossible to arrange. It would need more than providing a house to overcome that problem.

        At least a doctor who works in a big city Medical Centre can take holidays.

        • aj 2.3.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 10:23 am

          Reported my + covid result yesterday afternoon. My GP called me on my mobile last night to ensure I was ok, stocked up with medication and supplies, and to ensure I knew the signs of significant problems. Offered a loan of a pulse oximeter, they have 15 for loaning out, but my daughter had bought me one (and a body temp sensor) about 6 months back.

          I don't think you'd get better service from a GP than that.

        • weka 2.3.1.2
          9 June 2022 at 10:44 am

          Do you know what a locum is?

          • alwyn 2.3.1.2.1
            9 June 2022 at 10:59 am

            Well yes, I do know what a locum is.

            I don't understand your question though in terms of your original comment. When you said "a GP to live in that area would be to gift them some land with a decent house on it." I assumed you meant a permanent resident, not a locum. Were you suggesting a house for a locum would be an incentive?

            If, on the other hand, you were suggesting that the permanent doctor could get a locum so they could take a holiday I don't see how they could do it. If the DHB can't find locums how is an individual doctor going to do any better?

            • weka 2.3.1.2.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 11:37 am

              The DHB can find locums, just not enough in the current system. Who do you think does the three days a week currently? Having a permanent GP would change things a lot, then bring in locums as the GP needs to go on holiday, have breaks etc. It's not an all or nothing.

              From the link,

              The Reefton clinic serves a population of about 1000 people and is staffed by GP locums supplied by the DHB, who often stay locally. Some have worked in the town for several months at a time.

      • Molly 2.3.2
        9 June 2022 at 12:24 pm

        Perhaps two GPs – one full-time and one who wants to reduce workload and willing to work part-time and be on call.

        • Visubversa 2.3.2.1
          9 June 2022 at 12:53 pm

          My late father did a locum for a rural GP in the mid 1950's. He was advised that many of the locals had not yet grasped the principles of a cash economy. He got the GMS benefit for everyone he saw, but the rest was very much "in kind". Fortunately my mother was raised on a farm and her father was a butcher so being confronted with large lumps of recently demised animal or bird (often complete with shotgun pellets) did not worry her. She could also pluck and dress a chicken. We were particularly happy if someone had been over to the coast and we got fresh or smoked fish or crayfish. When there was not produce it was "mow your lawn Doc?" or "clean your car Doc?". We certainly ate well and his tax return was very good that year,

        • weka 2.3.2.2
          9 June 2022 at 3:09 pm

          Might work for a couple who are both GPs? But assuming they have accommodation for locums, I was thinking a freehold house would be the kind of incentive for someone to make the move permanently.

          • Molly 2.3.2.2.1
            9 June 2022 at 4:31 pm

            Yes, I agree.

            But was thinking a family home with a separate apartment would work.

            • weka 2.3.2.2.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 5:34 pm

              Buy two houses and then they have more choice.

              • weka …
                9 June 2022 at 5:36 pm

                $350,000 – $400,000 each. Wonder how much the DHB is spending on travel and accommodation now.

              • Molly …
                9 June 2022 at 5:40 pm

                True. I was thinking for attracting young people sometimes low maintenance is attractive. So is extra income option with Air B n B.

    • pat 2.4
      9 June 2022 at 11:51 am

      "Chair Lisa Neil says the absence of a GP will load more work on to the minimal nursing staff at the medical centre.

      “We have a vulnerable elderly community here and the nurses are already under pressure dealing with Covid in the community.”

      Cutting services at a time when Reefton people are in the thick of the epidemic and under stress from spiralling living costs is a bad idea, Neil says.

      “It’s a real blow. People are reluctant to front up [with depression] as it is, and if you’re dealing with an intimate problem, elderly people especially won’t be comfortable talking to a TV screen and having an extra person in there with them as well.”

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cuts-to-gp-service-alarm-west-coast-town

      Who needs a face to face with a GP anyway…..hopefully nobody.

  3. Joe90 3
    9 June 2022 at 9:14 am

    Whatever it is, they're against it!

    The co-founders of Groundswell admit they have not read the three waters legislation they are so vehemently against.

    […]

    Groundswell co-founders Laurie Paterson and Bryce McKenzie also said they haven't read the proposed legislation. Paterson says, nonetheless, they're opposed to what's on the table.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018845171/groundswell-co-founders-haven-t-read-bill-they-re-vehemently-against

    • Incognito 3.1
      9 June 2022 at 9:25 am

      Yup, same attitude and response from ‘critics’ of Three Waters roaming free here on TS. They refuse to engage with the proposals, they choose to close off their minds, and they self-justify this by pointing at all sorts of things being thrown around in the MSM and by the opposition parties, i.e. pointing at ‘hidden agendas’, alleged ‘secrecy’ and ‘dishonesty’, ‘stealth’, et cetera. They will never have to find out how good or bad the reforms might be (very bad, of course) and they simply stick their fingers in their ears. But at the end of the day it is always the same as from the outset: prejudice, pure & perfect prejudice. However, never say this to those people because they’ll flip their lid in a fit of incongruence rage.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.1
        9 June 2022 at 9:55 am

        Co-governance is a thorny one. Take the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation Bill) currently going through parliament. To my mind Ngāi Tahu getting to appoint two representatives to an elected board is undemocratic.

        But of course, the same people vigorously race baiting over this co-governance arrangement were more than happy in 2010 when National dumped the elected councillors and replaced them with commissioners to enable the pillaging and theft of Canterbury's water resources on behalf of corporate dairy interests.

        So the opposition to Ngāi Tahu getting two representatives isn't so much a principled defense of democracy as being aggrieved the wrong people are getting a nice salary for life.

        Personally, I strongly doubt the Ngāi Tahu representatives will prove to be any better guardians of the waters of Canterbury than some entitled cocky whose family arrived on the Charlotte Jane in 1850. The squabble is really over which bunch of entitled twots get to make money out of the commons that is water. To that extent, I oppose co-governance – to my mind, greed is colour and race blind and the only way to really keep an eye on these wannabe rentiers for life and keep them in check is full participatory democracy.

        • weka 3.1.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 11:41 am

          Labour just sacked the democratically elected DHBs /shrug.

          • Craig H 3.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 5:25 pm

            Bit of a difference between an entity being disestablished and the board being sacked while the entity continues operating.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 5:34 pm

              sacking was a reference to when National sacked the elected members of the Area Health Boards in the early 90s.

        • Grumpy 3.1.1.2
          9 June 2022 at 11:51 am

          Ngai Tahu are one of (if not) the biggest owners of dairy farms in Canterbury. If any other sector were given 2 seats on ECAN it would be called a Conflict of Interest.

        • Incognito 3.1.1.3
          9 June 2022 at 8:48 pm

          If you’re referring to royalties, I’ve seen arguments these could have advantages over the non-pricing structure currently in place for drinking water. I fail to see, at present, that this is a get-rich-quick scheme for anybody, but greed is not in my nature.

      • RedLogix 3.1.2
        9 June 2022 at 10:08 am

        The only consistent prejudice I see on display here is the one that says anything to do with white people is to be discounted, deplored and derided at every opportunity.

        According to Witi Ihimaera it is a Maori Universe after all.

      • aj 3.1.3
        9 June 2022 at 10:26 am

        Two things frighten them. Anything that eats into profit, and anything that gives Maori any say in the environment.

    • Graeme 3.2
      9 June 2022 at 9:53 am

      It’s amusing that a farmer from Gore has taken a position opposing the 3 Waters reforms.

      Gore has a combined sewage / stormwater system. A throwback from the 19th century and rather expensive to fix. It’s also got a shrinking ratepayer (dying) ratepayer base. Without the socialisation of costs that 3 Waters will bring Gore will probably cease to exist as the rates required will be unsustainable.

      • Ad 3.2.1
        9 June 2022 at 10:39 am

        A combined sewer-stormwater system is a modern septic outrage.

        WTF is that Council doing?

        Auckland Council's Stormwater team and Watercare only finished separating out flows from the whole of the Ponsonby-Herne Bay-Freemans Bay-Wynyard Quarter catchment last year. Including a 3.3metre diameter stormwater line 600 metres long.

        They still have 2 years to go doing the Central Interceptor project that separates most of the previously joined system. That's over $1b of work in that one alone.

        • Graeme 3.2.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 12:14 pm

          WTF is that Council doing?

          Well they’ve got a seriously good Art Gallery… But they are thinking about it and I think they will start in a few years, it’ll probably take 20 years at what they can afford. If there’s a poster child for 3 Water it’s Gore Anywhere else would have been amalgamated three reforms ago

          But as you’ve pointed out Auckland isn’t too flash in this regard, and at a much larger and more public scale. This gets hard to fix and most TAs don’t have Aucklands scale and resources

      • joe90 3.2.2
        9 June 2022 at 10:58 am

        After the 1990's nact inflicted disasters that beset the city Whanganui was unable to afford a ten year waste water separation scheme. But we did.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/stormwater-separation-129-houses-from-completion/UXGZEVBHTCGMXEFBCNAGVYD6M4/?c_id=1503426&objectid=11011217

      • weka 3.2.3
        9 June 2022 at 11:42 am

        apart from the financial forecast, what problems does Gore have with its drinking water, greywater and sewerage?

        • Graeme 3.2.3.1
          9 June 2022 at 11:58 am

          In much / most of Gore and Mataura there is only one pipe for sewage and stormwater. When it rains the lot goes into the shit ponds which discharge into the river. Hasn’t been ideal practice since about 1900.

    • Ad 3.3
      9 June 2022 at 10:42 am

      My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government. The legislation will be implemented without fuss. But it will take over a decade to notice much difference.

      The really big difference is the state fresh water regulator enforcing the National Fresh Water Drinking Standards, upon water systems from lazy shitty little farmer-owned councils who didn't give a damn for decades.

      • Sanctuary 3.3.1
        9 June 2022 at 11:01 am

        My only reservations about three waters is water governance is being consolidated into a nice ripe target for privatisation by a future National government (which will inevitably involve a grubby little cronyist deal with corporate Iwi that'll entrench rentier lifestyles for all those lucky enough to be at the table when the divvy up is done) and a real sadness that it signals a complete and utter failure of local democracy.

        I would have preferred the government had spent a few hundred million on a local democracy revival project before declaring them all incompetent.

        • Ad 3.3.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 12:14 pm

          I can't think of a single Wellington bureaucrat who would support strengthening local government.

          They've gutted them ever deper since 1989.

      • gypsy 3.3.2
        9 June 2022 at 2:52 pm

        The fresh water regulator is a positive step.

        "My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government."

        I respectfully disagree. There are tens of thousands of people invested in privately owned rural schemes (plus the people in the hundred or so rural council owned schemes) who will suddenly find the schemes they have paid for they no longer control. There is the ongoing and deep set resentment across local government towards central government at the perceived loss of control over ratepayers assets. and at the way the process has been undertaken. And then there's the commitment of both National and Act to overturn the entire structure.

        "But it will take over a decade to notice much difference."

        Certainly there will be no benefit before the next election, and that is a huge problem, because over the next year the media will be full of reports of the cost of establishing the entities. This is a big play by Labour, and it will be interesting to see how the politics plays out.

        • Ad 3.3.2.1
          9 June 2022 at 3:43 pm

          I'm sure there are indeed several thousand on private water systems, but seriously Labour never had them to start with.

          There will certainly be structural setup stories, but the river pollution stories are going to get bigger and bigger.

          • gypsy 3.3.2.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 4:19 pm

            "I'm sure there are indeed several thousand on private water systems, but seriously Labour never had them to start with."

            I have a friend who lives on a lifestyle block near Masterton. He's one of the many rural people who is part of a private scheme, and he voted for Labour in Wairarapa in 2020, along with significant others that saw the seat go red. He's one of many that will vote blue in 2023 due significantly because of 3Waters. That will play out across provincial NZ, IMHO.

            • KJT 3.3.2.1.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 5:12 pm

              When I was in a private developers scheme, I heaved a sigh of relief when the local council took over that ongoing liability, even though it cost a considerable sum at the time, to get the scheme connected to the public one.

              Many of the smaller council's in particular, should be relieved that the costs will now be shared over a much wider area.

              • pat …
                9 June 2022 at 5:18 pm

                Would you be as equally relieved if the water authority determined your scheme was no longer viable?

                • KJT …
                  9 June 2022 at 5:24 pm

                  They did, down the track, and rebuilt it into a new reticulation and treatment scheme.

                  • pat …
                    9 June 2022 at 5:46 pm

                    and reduced your rates 80% at the same time?

                    • KJT …
                      9 June 2022 at 9:17 pm

                      No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme.

                      Much cheaper than we would have had to pay in annual levies for the private scheme,which only served about a hundred odd houses.

                      Economies of scale. Eh?

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 9:32 pm

                      Or cross subsidy.

                      Economies of scale set against increased bureaucracy, larger and disparate areas of activity, promised improvement of both delivery and standard and thousands more employed.

                      Something dosnt add up.

                    • KJT …
                      9 June 2022 at 9:57 pm

                      Simply that the cost and efficiency of the water and waste water plants per user, improved, when going from about a hundred houses, in the private scheme, to being shared amongst over 8000.

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:04 pm

                      "No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme."

                    • KJT …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:22 pm

                      Originally there was no water or sewage plant, except for the development.

                      Which of course was paid for by buyers, including myself, in the subdivision.

                      We would have had to pay all the ongoing costs ourselves of the rather expensive to run water and wastewater scheme split amongst a hundred households.
                      Noting that unit costs drop as plant gets bigger.

                      The rest of the town was on tank and septic tank.

                      Later the rest of the town was reticulated to the extended private scheme. Both water and wastewater supply.

                      Further down the track this was inadequate, as the town grew, and a new scheme was built. Every section paid a levy for the new scheme and ongoing running costs became part of rates.

                      Much cheaper per household than the original scheme. And saving a nice bit of coast from leaking septic tanks.

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:28 pm

                      You are using terms you apparently dont understand….yes your (future) personal expense was reduced because it was met by a larger group whos future expense was increased…this is contrary to both what is promised by 3 Waters and economy of scale.

                    • KJT …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:37 pm

                      No. You fail to understand.

                      Their future expense went down.

                      No more maintaining septic tanks.

                      As did mine.

                      Economies of scale.

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:45 pm

                      Again

                      "No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme."

                    • KJT …
                      9 June 2022 at 10:55 pm

                      Rates which are less than the ongoing costs per household, if the scheme wasn't done.

                      Originally non reticulated households, also benifited from the initial work and plant built and paid for by the houses in the private scheme, so if there was any cross subsidy, it was from those of us who paid for the private scheme at the start.

                      Everyone gained from the new scheme. At reduced ongoing cost per household.

                    • Molly …
                      10 June 2022 at 11:20 am

                      @pat, we had a similar situation in our rural community.

                      However, in this case the local government solution was to require the developer to provide a considerably bigger upgrade for wastewater treatment than his resource consent number of properties warranted.

                      Once in place, other rural land was rezoned, and the council charged those developments to connect to the now upgraded system.

                      Other rural land in the area with Grade I soil, has followed with residential zoning, partly justified by the access to the waste water system which retains excess capacity.

                      A particularly pernicious way of rezoning rural land. In this case there are other factors that make this rezoning not as bad a full greenfields development but it does indicate the lack of transparency.

                    • pat …
                      10 June 2022 at 11:38 am

                      @ Molly.

                      I have no idea what is grade 1 soil but guess it is productive(?)

                      However designated land use is imo likely the only effective way of addressing the multitude of issues we face though it would need to be considered in a holistic manner…and it would be deeply unpopular.

                      When it comes to water infrastructure the problems and solutions remain the same regardless of governance form, management style or political persuasion.

                    • Molly …
                      10 June 2022 at 11:48 am

                      @pat. Yes, Class I soils are productive. There are/were issues with the soil classifications maps that could be up to 5km out in some places. That might have been resolved.

                      However, the rural land here was not only zoned Class I, it was historically and currently used for food production.

                      The alternate reasons why this development is not as bad as it could be. There is a geological (topographical) limit to residential expansion, where the sprawl is contained. The community has a long history – pre treaty, and so is well serviced in terms of services and recreational community assets that have built up over time. There is remnants of a train station, with a working rail line. If passenger trains were reinstated to this line, residents would have a viable alternative to car travel.

                      In my opinion, this is a significantly different situation to other rural developments that have been permitted without connection to existing communities or public transport links.

                    • pat …
                      10 June 2022 at 12:23 pm

                      @Molly

                      Many rural communities have historically survived and thrived without the 'benefit' of the latest infrastructure, however the environment (in both senses) has changed….and not for the better.

                      As one commenter noted a few days ago our population is widely dispersed and many of our communities small and distant from large scale infrastructure removing the option of consolidation….all of these will still require access to potable water, and to meet the standards for waste….and no one has yet addressed the question of contamination of water supplies be it nitrates, PFOS or whatever other contamination we discover that is both extremely difficult and expensive to remove and is historical.

              • gypsy …
                9 June 2022 at 6:16 pm

                These schemes have ben paid for by private citzens, who are quite happy to control their system, and not at all happy having it stolen from them.

        • Incognito 3.3.2.2
          9 June 2022 at 4:46 pm

          Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms.

          • gypsy 3.3.2.2.1
            9 June 2022 at 6:20 pm

            That's not what Keiran McAnulty told a meeting in the Wairarapa.

            It's also not what people are being told in areas such as Queenstown.

            I suspect there is some confusion.

            • pat 3.3.2.2.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 6:36 pm

              Much has yet to be determined…there are areas where the new entities will have an impact on private schemes and there is also concurrent reform with Taumata Arowai

            • Incognito 3.3.2.2.1.2
              9 June 2022 at 8:53 pm

              Perhaps you could dig into it and clear it up for us and your friend in Masterton?

              • gypsy …
                10 June 2022 at 11:26 am

                Perhaps the government should have thought all this through before effectively stealing assets paid for by ratepayers and private citizens.

                • Incognito …
                  10 June 2022 at 4:04 pm

                  And again, you have no game surprise

                  If I had more time to spend on this I would. In the meantime, confusion reigns, which suits you, doesn’t it?

                  • gypsy …
                    10 June 2022 at 5:28 pm

                    confusion reigns

                    Gee I wouldn’t go that far. We know enough to determine the scheme is inferior to alternatives.

                    But look I’ll be generous and save you some time. When you said “Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms” you obviously weren’t aware of this:

                    Acquisition and Vesting of Private 3-waters Schemes Policy

                    2.2.1 PRIVATE/SMALL DRINKING WATER SCHEME OPERATORS CAN EXPECT TO SEE:

                    · Increased and immediate investment requirement in backflow prevention.

                    · Increased monitoring of water schemes and treatment to meet DWSNZ.

                    · Requirement to develop and administer a drinking water safety plan and a source water risk management plan (catchment).

                    · Increased costs of source water quality monitoring and testing.

                    · Increased personal liability to directors with heavy fines for incidences, up to and including imprisonment.

                    2.2.2 PRIVATE/SMALL WASTEWATER AND STORMWATER SCHEME OPERATORS CAN EXPECT NEW LAWS EMPOWERING TAUMATA AROWAI TO:

                    · Compile information about wastewater and stormwater networks in a national public database:

                    · Set environmental performance measures, which wastewater and stormwater operators will have to report against annually:

                    · Publish an annual report on the environmental performance of wastewater and stormwater networks and their compliance with applicable regulatory requirements (such as resource consents): · Identify and promote national good practice for the design and management of wastewater and stormwater networks.

                    https://www.qldc.govt.nz/media/hv4bxvy3/acquisition-and-vesting-of-private-3-waters-scheme-policy-draft-rev-1-16-12-2021.pdf

                    • weka …
                      10 June 2022 at 7:30 pm

                      I don't know how you managed to make the html in that comment so complicated, but I've stripped it out and made it more readable. It's good practice to put links in the clear especially if they are to PDFs. People need to see what they are clicking on.

                    • Incognito …
                      10 June 2022 at 9:36 pm

                      I don’t have time to rebut this properly. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, you have not clarified anything, not cleared up the confusion but only added to it.

                      Clearly, you have an anti-Three Waters Reforms agenda. You quote some stuff to prove something but it isn’t clear what that is except to bolster your agenda of negativity.

                      Just briefly, from your linked PDF:

                      • 3-waters Reform – Governance, administration and operation of Council 3-waters networks are likely to be transferred to new regional entities from 1 July 2024 (subject to legislation).

                      …

                      Until the full enactment of 3-waters reforms underway, Council is the operational and controlling authority responsible for the supply, treatment, reticulation/conveyance and discharge of public 3-waters services (excluding private networks) within the District. [my italics]

                      Your PDF also states:

                      Check the Department of Internal Affairs Three Water Review1 for updates.

                      Which means that you can go there and find out that private schemes are outside the Three Waters reform, as I correctly stated before. Unless you can find more recent info that contradicts this, e.g. because Government has done a U-turn.

                  • Gypsy …
                    11 June 2022 at 9:31 am

                    So you are given a list of requirements proposed for private schemes and you double down! Your comment about private schemes being “outside the Three Waters reforms” was incorrect.

                    On the wider issue of 3Waters, I suggest you read the article by Sandra Coney in the Herald about the Waitakete Ranges.

                    [Link required. Don’t expect others to do the donkey work for you. And you have to explain why and how the NZH article is relevant to the discussion thread about Three Waters Reform and private schemes, not just point to it and say ‘read it’ – Incognito]

                    • Incognito …
                      11 June 2022 at 2:15 pm

                      I suggest that when you make a suggestion for somebody to read something you include a link and spell names correctly. And if it is in the NZH then it better be not behind the pay-wall or it could be conceived as a troll comment by you – the onus is on you to avoid wasting other people’s time and not put them on wild goose chases through Google, the internet, and then find a brick wall and a hard stop when the article is finally found. I hope for your sake that this is not the case because you will receive a Mod note soon.

                      Since you seem be adamant on heaping confusion on the matter at hand rather than helping to clarify things I’ve made some time to do some digging.

                      Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? Sure you can; you handled the 18-page QLDC policy no sweat.

                      Under the reforms, only council-owned assets necessary for the delivery of drinking water, wastewater or stormwater services will be transferred to the new water service delivery entities. Privately owned supplies or people who supply their own water for their house will not be impacted.

                      There are a range of existing service delivery arrangements between councils and community/rural schemes. These will be worked through with all parties during the transition period. This will ensure services continue with appropriate agreements in place with the new entities – for example, private community operated services that require technical assistance.

                      And

                      Only council-owned assets necessary for the delivery of three waters services will be transferred to the new entities. Privately owned schemes and supplies will not be transferred.

                      And

                      The recently passed Water Services Act will require all drinking water suppliers, other than domestic self-suppliers, to provide safe drinking water and meet drinking water standards. This is to ensure all communities receive safe drinking water, no matter where they live or who supplies this service.

                      Private drinking water suppliers currently registered under the Health Act will have a year to comply under the Water Services Bill – this includes all public supplies and some large networked rural supplies. Suppliers that are not currently registered under the Health Act will have four years to register with Taumata Arowai (the new water regulator); and seven years to comply.

                      https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/three-waters-reform-programme-2021/$file/rural-water-supplies-fact-sheet-three-waters-reform-programme.pdf

                    • Incognito …
                      11 June 2022 at 2:17 pm

                      Mod note

                    • gypsy …
                      11 June 2022 at 2:58 pm

                      The link is in the original post. But you know that.

                      https://www.qldc.govt.nz/media/hv4bxvy3/acquisition-and-vesting-of-private-3-waters-scheme-policy-draft-rev-1-16-12-2021.pdf

                      The NZH article is relevant to the wider discussion about 3Waters and it’s merits. It’s worth purchasing a copy for.

                      [So, still no link to the NZH article and still no explanation why and how it is relevant to the discussion here. And now you suggest I and other readers here should pay and purchase a copy!? Because it’s worth it, in your opinion, without explaining why and how!?

                      The link I requested was to the NZH article. But you know that.

                      However, you provided the same link to the QLDC policy draft again, for the third time, after extensively and selectively quoting irrelevant stuff. I referred to it in my reply @ 11 June 2022 at 2:15 pm and I’ve quoted from it myself. But you know that.

                      It is unclear and ambiguous to refer to the “original post” without being more specific about which exact comment you mean. When I refer to the OP I refer to the blog/article/piece written by the Author, not to the beginning of a discussion thread or sub-thread. In any case, it is not clear what you’re referring to and this is OM!?

                      So, you’re a disingenuous troll here, baiting, diverting, obfuscating and you’re wasting Moderator time. Take a week off – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []
                      11 June 2022 at 4:21 pm

                      Mod note

                  • gypsy …
                    11 June 2022 at 3:02 pm

                    "Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? "

                    And then you go on to provide a link about transfer of ownership. Your claim was "Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms." and yet your own reference states:

                    "Private drinking water suppliers currently registered under the Health Act will have a year to comply under the Water Services Bill – this includes all public supplies and some large networked rural supplies."

                    If the scheme has to comply with any new regulations under 3Waters, it is simply false to suggest the scheme is ‘outside’ of the reforms.

                    • gypsy …
                      11 June 2022 at 3:14 pm

                      And in anticipation that you will try to claim your comment was about 'ownership', the comment you were replying to when you made your claim, and my subsequent comments, have referred to 'control' not 'ownership'.

                    • Incognito …
                      11 June 2022 at 4:46 pm

                      Nope, neither control nor ownership are transferred out of and away from private schemes. You’re confusing compliance with the new regulations and regulatory framework with loss of control, which is bot inaccurate and incorrect and amounts to fearmongering. The same fearmongering and propaganda as we might expect from some rural quarters with hysterical outburst and frankly ridiculous claims such as "They're stealing our water!", FFS. https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-news/they-re-stealing-our-water

                      To have something stolen from you, you have to own it in the first place. Some rural folk seem to think that they own the commons and because they have been free to use it and waste it they own it, for all intents & purposes. Now, who are the real thieves here?

                      By all accounts you’re quite intelligent, yet you don’t do anything to help clearing up confusion. Rather, you antagonise and obfuscate. The most obvious conclusion is that you have a deliberate agenda in stalling Three Waters Reform as much as possible and ideally make it fail.

                      Three Waters Reform boiled down

                      – a quick overview

                      Provided by the Department of Internal Affairs

                      Updated June 2022

                      https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Three-waters-reform-programme-2022/$file/Three-Waters-Reform-boiled-down-May-2022.pdf

                      The Three Waters Reforms are complex. This has meant there is some confusion about the reform proposals. The following slides discuss some common misconceptions or myths about the three waters service delivery reforms.

                      Question: Will the Three Waters Reforms take private water supplies / take back water allocations

                      Answer: No. The Three Waters Reforms aim to reform council-owned services only. This discussion is not about taking over operation of privately-owned supplies. However, the Government is working with a Rural Supplies Technical Working Group to understand how the proposed entities may support private supplies who currently receive assistance from councils.

                      The proposed entities will continue to operate within the resource management system – the Three Waters Reforms will not alter resource consents, allocations, or address ownership of freshwater. This is subject to work of the Ministry for the Environment.

                      I cannot make it any clearer for you or for anybody else. To draw conclusions that are in direct contradiction with the information provided is a sure sign of being disingenuous and not commenting & debating here in good faith. This is the very strong impression you create time after time.

    • Sanctuary 3.4
      9 June 2022 at 10:55 am

      There is a full on white panic going on in certain parts of the country right now, assiduously dog whistled by an army of GOP adjacent racists and/or culture warriors like Laurie Paterson and in the MSM by an army of right wing opinionistas.

      That this is a race based backlash can be discerned from the targets – co-governance, smearing Mahuta and attacking Poto Williams, racist fear mongering over three waters, the vigorously pumped conspiracy theories from He Puapua to white paranoia about rigging elections (see National MP David Bennett) to far out conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory which is increasingly being mainstreamed on the NZ right and popping up in comments sections of the likes of the NZ Herald.

      • joe90 3.4.1
        9 June 2022 at 11:11 am

        But it's not about race, it's about privatisation….

        The council-iwi working group, on which Smith was a member, had recommended an entrenched clause to stop the water assets' privatisation. The sale or transfer of even a single pipe would require the agreement of at least 75 percent of all MPs.

        […]

        Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson called on opposition parties to "step up" if they believed in public ownership. "We've heard certainly from the National Party that they've been throughout this process concerned about the loss of ownership in communities," he said. "Now they can step up and say 'we will agree that these assets won't be sold'."

        But it's understood the National Party did not agree to support the entrenched clause, protecting against privatisation – it is ironic for Jason Smith that it is the party he has just joined that has effectively blocked the requirement for a super-majority.

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/three-waters-entrenchment

      • Anne 3.4.2
        9 June 2022 at 11:16 am

        Got it in one Sanctuary. And its percolating through centrist communities too. If you confront them – as I have with a few family members – they descend into fits of outrage because it's not racism. Oh yeah.angry

        I have been following stories on the trip to England by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. There it is again. Racism in all its glory. Hatred and vitriol abounded in subtle and less subtle guises. They are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. I can't even begin to imagine the uproar if it had been their little boy, Archie who played up on the balcony and elsewhere.

        It will be understandable if they never return to racist Britain.

        • Belladonna 3.4.2.1
          9 June 2022 at 7:25 pm

          It will be understandable if they never return to racist Britain.

          I'm sure Britain will be ecstatic.
          Meanwhile they're living in considerably-more-racist USA.

          Really, you care what the H&M roadshow says or does? Talk about the pinnacle of irrelevance. At least the R Family (privileged though they may be) actually work [truly, you couldn't pay me to do their jobs, be in that goldfish bowl, and live a life in the public eye]

          I had sympathy for H&M when they wanted to ditch it all; but the sympathy waned rapidly when it was apparent that they actually wanted to live like A-list celebrities, and were perfectly prepared to sacrifice their precious privacy at the altar of their new god, Netflix.

          • Anne 3.4.2.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 10:08 pm

            Actually I was picking up on Sanctuary @3.4 and talking about racism Belladonna. The example I gave is just the latest.

            Don't care what you may think I care or don't care about, or for that matter what you may care or not care about. Don't do Netflix and don't follow the pair's antics in the US so don't know what you're talking about. And just so as you get the message I don't care either. 😈

            • Belladonna 3.4.2.1.1.1
              10 June 2022 at 10:15 am

              Then perhaps you should use an example where you do care, and have bothered to do a minimal level of research.

              • Anne …
                10 June 2022 at 11:03 am

                I care about racism and other forms of destructive prejudice. I don't care about the circumstance or past mistakes of the individual/individuals who happen to be the targets.

                A less judgemental approach to commenters based on… zero knowledge of their backgrounds or the extent of their "research" endeavours into matters that happen to be of interest to them would be helpful. You might find the favour being returned.

                • Belladonna …
                  10 June 2022 at 11:25 am

                  I you make a statement that

                  Don't care what you may think I care or don't care about, or for that matter what you may care or not care about. Don't do Netflix and don't follow the pair's antics in the US so don't know what you're talking about. And just so as you get the message I don't care either.

                  It's pretty obvious that you've done little or no research.

                  And I suggest a mirror, when you're talking about "less judgemental approach"

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.4.3
        10 June 2022 at 7:29 am

        "Nobody owns the water, " former broadcaster Peter Williams told an audience in Gore yesterday.

        About 400 people turned up to the meeting hosted by Groundswell New Zealand to protest against the Three Waters reforms.

        It was the third meeting of four hosted by the group in Otago and Southland.

        A Taxpayers Union board member, Mr Williams was the keynote speaker at the meeting.

        https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/hundreds-3-waters-reforms-protest-meeting

        A LOT of venting about bullies….and Maaries and WHO should own the Water. Well, them Farmers of course ! (They already do……)

    • Populuxe1 3.5
      9 June 2022 at 2:19 pm

      Apart from the people who drafted it, I doubt even the minister has read the whole thing. It would be more to the point to ask if they'd read the summary of the Bill and the discussion document.

  4. Ross 4
    9 June 2022 at 9:50 am

    Bad news for the Government.

    the National Party is still perceived by New Zealanders as most capable of managing 4 of the top-5 issues, a significant shift compared to June 2021, when Labour was seen as most capable of managing 19 of the 20 issues.

    The top five issues are:

    1. Inflation/cost of living.

    2. Housing/price of housing.

    3. Healthcare/hospitals.

    4. Petrol prices/fuel.

    5. Crime/law and order.

    National should be delighted with the attention Labour is giving 3 Waters.

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-06/17th%20Ipsos%20New%20Zealand%20Issues%20Monitor%20-%207%20June%202022%20%28report%29.pdf

    • Anne 4.1
      9 June 2022 at 10:11 am

      And when have the top five issues ever been anything else other than the ones quoted. You're a gullible idiot!

    • Corey Humm 4.2
      9 June 2022 at 4:43 pm

      I don't think they care about reelection at this point. I think the cabinet of mediocrity is simply hoping it gets as many of its social engineering reforms through by mid 2023 as possible.

      They are doubling and trippling down on everything that makes them unpopular and have abandoned anything remotely popular.

      People voted labour because they thought they might do something about unaffordable housing, unaffordable rents, living costs, mental health, welfare ,health, tax reforms and in 2017 Jacinda even said she supported drug reform.

      Instead all those problems are worse and labour is worrying about Geoffrey Palmer esque pie in the sky constitutional reforms and social engineering.

      Tens of thousands wait on social housing lists and labour won't increase the percentage of social housing in total supply better to just copy national and throw them in costly motels rather than build state housing which is revenue asset for the govt but nevermind.

      Private Rentals are impossible to find but theres a hundred thousand empty houses in NZ the govt just shrugs. Instead of developing land and building houses we give land to developers to sell extremely overpriced two bedroom boxes that sit empty.

      Cost of living is out of control and our supermarket duopoly greed is hurting our people and a war with them would be extremely popular, the govt spends months saying it'll do something major doesn't even do the bare minimum. Another failed opportunity

      Instead of spending loads on training new nurses and doctors for free we spend loads on centralizing healthcare bureaucracy. While dying people sit in beds in our ers.

      Drops a CGT as soon as they start polling highly after March 15. wasted opportunity

      Pm whose popularity, like way Trudeau would have gotten weed reform Says she supports drug reform in 2017, the party doesn't wrote a coherent drug policy, pm refuses to say she supports drug reform Incase it costs her a single vote but will support euthanasia, the result is pretty much 50/50 and immediately govt rules out any reform desire weed reform being popular with half the country. Another cynical wasted opportunity and if you look at the weed industries around the world, one that is leaving NZ behind. Failure to get any drug reform from this govt is shameful.

      Instead of things on housing,cost of living , health, things people actually vote labour for we get hate speech laws, woke extremists running an anti terrorist unit, 3 waters, centralization, more hotels, a broadcast merger, co-govt constitutional reforms and a few crumbs like wage rises, benefit rises, bland climate reforms, weak workers rights reforms and more and more unaffordable empty box apartments.

      Yippie.

      Then there's the off touted COVID response , the one praised for not clogging up our healthcare system…. Except…… ambulances are so busy they aren't taking calls heart attacks have 1/4 survival rate, hospitals are chocker full and ambos are just dropping patients to emergency bay and picking which ones get treated and which ones don't…. Boy seems like we just postponed the health crisis by two years and didn't do anything with the two extra years to increase health care capacity.

      Thank God for vaccinations because otherwise we really would be upshit creek. Which is a credit to the govt but not increasing capacity is a discredit.

      In previous elections labour used to say we'd love to do this or that if only we had a majority. Now we know they what they will do with a majority. Constitutional reforms rather than economic or housing reforms. Yay!

      I hope labour wins a third term.

      Not because I think they'll do anything, they ruled out anything that would get people excited, I hope labour wins a third term cos national and act would be horrifically bad for many of my friends and families living standards. Labour just won't make it much worse.

      But if labour loses I hope it's a nat/nzf /act govt or nat/Maori/act govt cos those two centerist parties would stop act and national reeking too much ruthanasia on the poor.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1
        9 June 2022 at 5:16 pm

        But if labour loses I hope it's a nat/nzf /act govt or nat/Maori/act govt cos those two centerist parties would stop act and national reeking too much ruthanasia on the poor.

        Hope you're right, remembering that Richarsdon was a National party MP, finding her natural home (the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers NZ party, founded by Douglas and Quigley), only after she departed Parliament.

        And then a step to the right

  5. Patricia Bremner 5
    9 June 2022 at 10:13 am

    Yes Ross, it is always easier to sit on one side throwing rocks into the kitchen.

    Being able to produce change in an unstable world is harder. You did not mention 3 huge problems. Covid War Climate Change.

    All we hear from National is "We could do it better and cheaper"

    Righto!! Why do you think that would be? You new boss says "He would do the same"

    "He would spend the same" So what exactly would change….. Tax cuts?? How did that work for 90% of us???

    Oh I gedditt!! You would have a Big Daddy in charge.!! Not a "Girl"

    Guess what?? He needs to do more homework. This is not a company There is a big bad world out there having an effect on us. We can't ignore that for political convenience. Most countries are struggling.

    • Jester 5.1
      9 June 2022 at 12:32 pm

      Don't forget when Labour were in opposition, they threw plenty of rocks and were going to fix the homeless issue, child poverty etc. and Kiwi build 10k houses a year, fix the state house wait list and hospital wait lists. All oppositions can promise the world as they don't have to deliver.

      How is that going now that they have been in government for nearly five years?

  6. Ad 6
    9 June 2022 at 12:08 pm

    The EU has just voted to ban diesel and electric new cars by 2035.

    That's a good signal from the world's 3rd largest co2 polluter.

    I can't remember what our target is.

  7. PB 7
    9 June 2022 at 1:37 pm

    Is everyone comfortable that around 20 people are dieing from Covid 19 related illness each day? That' over 100 deaths per week and the way its going looks odds for over 5,000 by years end. The business lobby won and the old, infirm and (probably) poor lost. I'll still vote Labour but when backbone was needed they didn't stand up for their people – it's a sore point for me and whilst I think that overall Covid was handled really well if we get to the next election with 10,000 dead from Covid it will be hard to use the handling of the pandemic as a reason to vote Labour. .

    • KJT 7.1
      9 June 2022 at 4:37 pm

      I don't think anyone is "comfortable about it". Certainly still very concerned about the vulnerable around me.

      Once omicron was in the country, and everyone that could, or would be, was vaccinated, it is hard to say what else could be done. It is doubtful if enough people would have supported further lockdowns to make them effective. As we could see at the end of the last Auckland lockdown.

      Even China's draconian lockdowns are leaking. With pretty dire results in areas with around 60% vaccination rates.

      Keeping covid out until we had 95% vaccinated, has saved thousands of lives, compared with countries that didn't reach those levels before opening up.

      One thing that was conceded to business, which may have slowed the spread more, is the required length of self isolation. Ten days, not seven, would have accorded more with the probability of being infectious. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/17/1081510375/isolation-testing-omicron-infection

  8. Blade 8
    9 June 2022 at 2:01 pm

    Interesting interview Jamie McKay had with soil scientist, Doug Edmeades. Some main points:

    1- Farmers need to realise urea isn't the best source of nitrogen, clover pasture is. Emades believes growing good clover pasture has become a lost art.

    Yeah, but urea gets a hell of a fast result even though much is lost into the atmosphere. And…I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to.

    2- Soil does not produce nutrients, so fertiliser is a must. In the 80s when many farmers cut back on fertiliser, those who continued fertilising came out of the then farming slump in a much better position. When you use less fertiliser you need to reduce your stock numbers.

    3- Farmers use too much phosphate. That's a problem in NZ. I used bat guano for a few years. The phosphate reading when taken was off the charts. In alternative medicine, excessive phosphate is considered a cause for cancer and other diseases.

    Now for the contentious issue – Methane .

    Quote:

    ''Yes, ruminants produce CH4. Yes it is a greenhouse gas. Yes it may be possible to come up with interventions to reduce emissions from the animal.

    BUT! Let me explain.

    Methane is short-lived in the atmosphere. It hangs around for about 10 years before it is converted to CO2. For every unit of carbon the animal emits as CH4 it must ingest the same amount of carbon from its plant-based feed source, which, remember, comes initially from the CO2 in the atmosphere.

    From the animals perspective every bit of carbon it emits as methane it mopped up as carbon in its feed. The animal is both the source of the carbon in methane and it is also the sink for the equivalent amount of carbon in CO2. In this sense the carbon-methane cycle: methane-to-CO2-to-forage-plants-to-animals-to-methane, is a closed cycle.''

    Dr Doug Edmeades, MscHons, ONZM (Services to Agriculture), is an independent soil scientist based in Hamilton. He welcomes feedback – doug.edmeades@agknowledge.co.nz

    In Vino has replied yesterday to some of these similar points:

    ''Blade – I read that crap in the local café. Utter baloney – the guy lies about methane, claims a closed system when much of his 'disappearing methane' converts to carbon dioxide, and peddles a load of wishful garbage.

    He claims that 'methane is gone in ten years.' If I remember correctly, that approximate figure is its half-life. And what is the point if farmers are replenishing it with a new full amount every year? No mention of methane being up to 60 times worse that CO2 as a heat-retaining gas.''

    One-eyed, wishful drivel.

    My point here is, and has always been, we don't see enough Edmeades in the media because they have issues with some mainstream narratives on climate change.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/dr-doug-edmeades-should-methane-be-included-in-the-ets/2RTYB2WJE5HMP4Y2V2J4ZQ66X4/

    • Robert Guyton 8.1
      9 June 2022 at 2:58 pm

      Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.

      You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.

      The methane excuse is utter nonsense. The hydroxyl argument is a red herring (note the continued fishing theme). In Vino said,

      "One-eyed, wishful drivel."

      Pretty fair comment, that.

      This, from you:

      "I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to."

      Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap. Red meat stuff. Carelessly expressed though – "anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales" won't in fact, attest that you hate clover pasture.

      You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) and ask him why, if livestock methane is carbon-neutral and nothing to worry about, are farmers and their representatives etc. gleefully accepting the millions of dollars from the Government to research … methane reduction?

      Perhaps you can answer that question yourself?

      • Blade 8.1.1
        9 June 2022 at 6:57 pm

        I don't usually respond to you, Robert, because I consider you a soundbite karen. But as you have extended yourself let's have looksee.

        ''Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.''

        Based on what? Your ideology?

        ''You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.''

        I put this up for debate because it is current in the media; it stops the blog becoming an echo chamber and as I'm continually considered nuts because I don't believe in manmade climate change shouldn't I be able to defend myself? Hooks and nibbles is more to do with your mind set.

        "I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to." Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap.

        In fact it was side comment as to the extreme weight of clover bales. Some can come in at 70-80kgs wet. I can’t see you hacking that work, Robert.wink Again your unusual mind set on display.

        ''Red meat stuff.''

        We can't have that can we, Robert. Although the world loves our pasture fed red meat.

        ''You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) ''

        Why don't you drop him a line? When you don't get a reply you may like to ask yourself why?indecision

        • In Vino 8.1.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 8:14 pm

          Sorry, Blade, but you have maxed out again. I think I did a lot more hay-bale lifting that you ever did. Through all my Uni years it was my summer holiday job. 3 of us running one truck plus a loader (good boss back then – we shared driving once every 3 loads of 120 bales, but at the barn we all had to stack like hell..

          My one little concession to capitalism: we were paid per bale moved. We were efficient. The few times we saw guys being paid by the hour, they were so slow that we felt nothing but contempt.

          So yes – reward productivity.

          Clover bales were lovely when properly dried. They hurt your thighs much less! Heavier when wet, and more likely to cook and catch alight if stacked in a barn too wet.

          I picked up bales each summer starting 1965 til 1970. I had hoped it would make me a muscleman, but it just made me skinny and wiry with little, bumpy arm muscles. And it made me very fit, but I have slowly worked that off.

          Edmeades as I see it does not prove a closed system for farming. His argument that farms absorb as much carbon dioxide as they produce does not counter the carbon dioxide produced as the methane magically disappears. Nor does he seem bothered about the seriously more damaging effect of methane itself.

          We need to reduce methane urgently, not rabbit on about theoretically closed systems.. Edmeades appears to be aiding an interested status quo party to my mind.

          • Blade 8.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 8:37 pm

            Great story. I only did two seasons. And yes, I, like you, only put on arm muscle. But I was lean and mean…and bloody fit. I also saw 3 people walk off the job because they couldn't hack it. Lord knows how many would walk off the job nowadays.

            • In Vino 8.1.1.1.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 10:26 pm

              Only just got through my first week. Several guys dropped out after a day or so.. Including a police trainee.

              Maybe we were still under the effects that the Great Depression had on our parents… There are still plenty of good young guys (Covid has just forced my retirement from Secondary School Relief Teaching) and there are also heaps of tough-looking young guys that would not hack it.

              More worrying – there are also disaffected young guys who would put that kind of effort in for a gang, but not for a standard job.

              Low wage economy makes hard work a sucker's game nowadays?

              And how did we end up with an unproductive, low-wage economy?

              I blame Roger Douglas. I heard him say on the radio in early days that we must do all his reforms, but NOT become a low-wage economy.

              Every reform he did weakened unions, and promoted a low-wage economy.

              Great. Thanks a million, Rogernomes.

        • Blade 8.1.1.2
          9 June 2022 at 8:56 pm

          On second thoughts I will drop him a line with a link to this thread. Let's see what the cat drags in.

          • KJT 8.1.1.2.1
            9 June 2022 at 9:09 pm

            Please don't. One ignorant F-wit per thread is enough!

            • Blade 8.1.1.2.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 9:25 pm

              No abuse please. We have been warned enough.

              A reply will either show him to be incompetent, or it will as Earle Kirton was fond of saying, ''be good night nurse'' for some experts on this thread.

              • In Vino …
                9 June 2022 at 10:38 pm

                Blade – you are the recent arrival, and the troll. Don't presume to teach us manners.

                • Blade …
                  9 June 2022 at 11:02 pm

                  I'm teaching you nothing. Incognito laid down the kaupapa and suggested we follow it. That's what I'm doing and from my perspective KJT isn't.

                  You also called me a troll. You will need to back that up and show me where I'm trolling. And no, posting articles that aren't kosher from a Leftie perspective is not trolling in my opinion.

                  The good news for you is if I'm not booted off before hand , I will be gone for good after the next election. This will be no place for a Rightie to ply his trade. So grit ya teeth. Time will fly… and before you know it Luxon will be pontificating on the podium about how National is going to make NZ great again.sadfrownsurprise

    • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2
      9 June 2022 at 3:27 pm

      This is not the case with methane. The methane-carbon mop is built in. The animal is both the source and the sink – you cannot have one without the other. The animal is CH₄-carbon neutral.

      Seems Dr Edmeades' ONZM award (2013) for Services to Agriculture was well-earned.

      Increase in atmospheric methane set another record during 2021
      [7 April 2022]
      NOAA’s preliminary analysis showed the annual increase in atmospheric methane during 2021 was 17 parts per billion (ppb), the largest annual increase recorded since systematic measurements began in 1983. The increase during 2020 was 15.3 ppb. Atmospheric methane levels averaged 1,895.7 ppb during 2021, or around 162% greater than pre-industrial levels. From NOAA’s observations, scientists estimate global methane emissions in 2021 are 15% higher than the 1984-2006 period.

      How necessary and feasible are reductions of methane emissions from livestock to support stringent temperature goals? [27 Sept 2021]
      Most fundamentally though, none of the mitigation pathways and options discussed in our study will come to pass without targeted policies to address greenhouse gas emissions, reduce the global demand for emissions-intensive livestock products and provide for transitions of those most affected by the necessary transformative changes. The significant potential for the reduction of livestock CH₄ emissions can only be realized if agriculture, and livestock systems in particular, become part of mainstream climate policies, while recognizing their unique and multiple interacting social, cultural and environmental functions.

      And what Robert Guyton wrote @8.1. Sand still not bothering you? What’s your secret?

      • pat 8.2.1
        9 June 2022 at 3:53 pm

        And the source of that increase in ppm methane is?

        • Poission 8.2.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 3:57 pm

          Leaky pipes,emissions from coalfields, flaring ,flatulence from Kale.

          https://twitter.com/IEA/status/1523671693805473798?cxt=HHwWjMC–aXVlaUqAAAA

          NZ total ch4 emissions are not even the standard error.

          • pat 8.2.1.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 4:14 pm

            Indeed…and the largest source of biogenic methane (that which is part of the carbon cycle) is wetlands.

            https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2020/08/13/global-methane-emissions-soaring-but-how-much-was-due-to-wetlands/

            We may have too many cattle beasts but they are not the main cause of increasing atmospheric methane, indeed those studying it are struggling to account for it.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/02/19/were-vastly-undercounting-methane-emissions-fossil-fuels-scientists-say/

            • Poission 8.2.1.1.1.1
              9 June 2022 at 4:30 pm

              Wetlands are interesting insofar as they have a huge ability to lay down carbon,

              https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/ecosystems/gajewski.gif

              There is a real complex ecosystem there,which is difficult to model,With coastal wetlands they do not produce so much CH4 due to SO2 from the sea (acid rain) from algae.

              • Robert Guyton …
                9 June 2022 at 4:44 pm

                Poission is right. Wetlands will be the saving of us (those of us who live in regions where wetlands were, pre-agriculture, vast wetlands – put them back)!!

              • pat …
                9 June 2022 at 4:46 pm

                I fear another forest carbon credit debacle is in the offering…..are we to ban rice paddies next?

                • Poission …
                  9 June 2022 at 4:54 pm

                  Probably right.Ted talks and investor conferences.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  9 June 2022 at 5:23 pm

                  Not ban wetlands; fens, bogs, swamps and mires – make more of them!!

                  Many more. The benefits are enormous! Food production from wetlands is something that was once well known, but has been forgotten, mainly, til now. Eels, crayfish, mussels and more, not counting plants (watercress etc.

                  Best thing though, the filtering, cleansing, water-slowing effects of wetlands. Uncounted savings to all regions, subject to flooding.

                  • pat …
                    9 June 2022 at 5:45 pm

                    But they produce methane Robert….public enemy number one!

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      9 June 2022 at 6:41 pm

                      If farmers can claim a natural methane cycle for their animals, wetland defenders can surely claim the same for their waterbodies!

                      Carbon sequestration by wetlands is beyond "significant". We'd be fools to talk wetlands down.

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 6:45 pm

                      Or…

                      If wetlanders can claim a natural methane cycle farmers can claim the same for their stock.

                      Carbon sequestration on farms is significant. We'd be fools to talk food production down.

                    • Poission …
                      9 June 2022 at 7:00 pm

                      With a 500b$ foreign liability,and a country that is fiscally restrained destocking of Bovine /ovine biomass needs to be matched by the removal of equivalent human biomass from NZ.

                      No welfare state,15-20% mortgages,councillors reduced to minimum hourly rate for meetings only,a reduction in MP'S a population of around 1990 or less.

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 7:42 pm

                      "…a reduction in MP'S a population of around 1990 or less."

                      Every cloud has a silver lining

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      9 June 2022 at 8:15 pm

                      We'd be fools not to recognise that "food production" does not equal "livestock farming as presently practiced".

                      It's not a binary.

                      There are many other food production models and many other foods.

                      Milk is not King!

                    • pat …
                      9 June 2022 at 8:42 pm

                      "There are many other food production models and many other foods.:

                      Indeed there are….however methane accounting is not being used as a reason to remove them (at least not here)

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    9 June 2022 at 8:38 pm

                    Curbing methane emissions: How five industries can counter a major climate threat [23 Sept 2021]
                    Companies can take three no-regrets actions to begin reducing methane emissions
                    Action 2: Support sustainable consumption. Stakeholders could develop mechanisms to differentiate assets and score products based on their methane footprints. If every kilogram of rice, million British thermal units (MMBtu) of natural gas, ton of steel, pound of meat, barrel of oil, and ton of coal came with a methane-intensity label, the market signals could support a more orderly decarbonization transition. With this, retailers and consumers could make more informed purchasing decisions, producers could define new foundations for competitive advantage, and investors could better understand portfolio risk.

                    Or we can support unsustainable consumption – it's a 'free' choice.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2.1.2
          9 June 2022 at 4:09 pm

          New analysis shows microbial sources fueling rise of atmospheric methane [17 June 2021]
          The sudden and sustained rise in atmospheric levels of the potent greenhouse gas methane since 2007 has posed one of the most significant and pressing questions in climate research: Where is it coming from?

          Fossil fuel emissions? Biological sources? A diminished capacity by the atmosphere to break down methane? A climate tipping point?
          …
          Lan said the data pointed to microbial sources, such as natural wetlands, shallow lakes and rivers, and human-managed sources like livestock, landfills, rice paddies, and wastewater treatment.

          Quantifying fossil fuel methane emissions using observations of atmospheric ethane and an uncertain emission ratio [25 March 2022]
          Using the joint methane–ethane inverse model, we estimate annual mean UK methane emissions of approximately 0.27 (95 % uncertainty interval 0.26–0.29) Tg yr−1 from fossil fuel sources and 2.06 (1.99–2.15) Tg yr−1 from non-fossil fuel sources, during the period 2015–2019.
          https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/22/3911/2022/acp-22-3911-2022.html

    • Macro 8.3
      9 June 2022 at 3:58 pm

      The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.

      My point here is, and has always been, we don't see enough Edmeades in the media because they have issues with some mainstream narratives on climate change.

      The main point is that Edmeades represents about 2.5% of scientific opinion on the matter. The jury is well out against him and for good reason. There are numerous papers and reports that show that the Methane cycle is out of balance – largely caused by increased numbers of agricultural livestock. A fair summary is here:

      A 2006 UN FAO report reported that livestock generate more greenhouse gases as measured in CO2 equivalents than the entire transportation sector. Livestock accounts for 9 percent of anthropogenic CO2, 65 percent of anthropogenic nitrous oxide and 37 percent of anthropogenic methane. A senior UN official and co-author of the report, Henning Steinfeld, said "Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems."[63]

      Recent NASA research has confirmed the vital role of enteric fermentation in livestock on global warming. "We understand that other greenhouse gases apart from carbon dioxide are important for climate change today," said Gavin Schmidt, the lead author of the study and a researcher at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City and Columbia University's Center for Climate Systems Research.[64] Other recent peer reviewed NASA research published in the journal Science has also indicated that the contribution of methane to global warming has been underestimated

      • Blade 8.3.1
        9 June 2022 at 8:10 pm

        ''The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.''

        Could you please provide a link ? That's not how I understand things.

        https://gml.noaa.gov/education/info_activities/pdfs/CTA_the_methane_cycle.pdf

        • Incognito 8.3.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 9:14 pm

        • Macro 8.3.1.2
          9 June 2022 at 9:20 pm

          Half-life is defined as the amount of time it takes a given quantity to decrease to half of its initial value. The term is most commonly used in relation to atoms undergoing radioactive decay, but can be used to describe other types of decay, whether exponential or not.

          https://www.calculator.net/half-life-calculator.html

          Methane has a large effect but for a relatively brief period, having an estimated mean half-life of 9.1 years in the atmosphere,[21][page needed] whereas carbon dioxide is currently given an estimated mean lifetime of over 100 years.

          The globally averaged concentration of methane in Earth's atmosphere increased by about 150% from 722 ± 25 ppb in 1750 to 1803.2 ± 1.2 ppb in 2011.[22] As of 2011, methane contributed radiative forcing of 0.48 ± 0.05 Wm−2,[23] or about 17% of the total radiative forcing from all of the long-lived and globally mixed greenhouse gases.[citation needed] According to NOAA, the atmospheric methane concentration has continued to increase since 2011 to an average global concentration of 1892.2 ppb as of December 2020.[24] The March 2019 peak was 1866.2 ppb, while the April 2020 peak was 1876.0 ppb, a .5% increase.[24]

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane

          • In Vino 8.3.1.2.1
            10 June 2022 at 10:27 pm

            Thanks, Macro.

            I tried to put the half-life thing to Blade a few days ago, but he ignores and pretends not to get it.

            He obfuscates deliberately. That is his role.

            • Blade 8.3.1.2.1.1
              10 June 2022 at 11:20 pm

              Easy cowboy… be careful before you jump to conclusions. That half-life thing is interesting… I'll mull over it for a couple days. You should too.

              • Incognito …
                11 June 2022 at 1:52 pm

                If the concept of half-life will take you a few days to mull over, how long did it take you to mull over magnetism and paramagnetism? The mind boggles …

    • KJT 8.4
      9 June 2022 at 4:45 pm

      "In this sense the carbon-methane cycle: methane-to-CO2-to-forage-plants-to-animals-to-methane, is a closed cycle.''

      Claptrap.

      In a "closed cycle" you don't have to keep adding nutrients, including soil carbons.

  9. Robert Guyton 9
    9 June 2022 at 3:00 pm

    "Soil does not produce nutrients"

    Oh Lordy, protect is from these fools!

    I wonder how anything grew at all, in the millions and millions of years that preceded the discovery of urea and super-duper phosphate?

    Poor know-nothing Mother Nature!

    • weka 9.1
      9 June 2022 at 5:40 pm

      Those sneaky forests too, must be running a black market import of fert. From somewhere.

      • Grafton Gully 9.1.1
        9 June 2022 at 6:56 pm

        Seabirds import fertiliser to some forests.

        "Seabird colonies in New Zealand represent the rich diversity of coastal and pelagic seabirds, and are hotspots of intense nutrient and trace element cycling that provide examples of natural nutrient enrichment in terrestrial and stream ecosystems."

        Quote from the first paragraph of the review conclusions.

        https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/3455.pdf

        • weka 9.1.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 8:33 pm

          isn't it cool?! So much that nature does that we would be learning from.

      • Blade 9.1.2
        9 June 2022 at 7:49 pm

        We are talking high density farming with no biomass accumulation as in a forest.

        Talking of fert , I have tried nearly everything. Yet I've narrowed things down to seaweed, lawn clippings and salt. Salt has all the minerals many soils need due to depletion. My crops go crazy.

        Could you pass this on to Rob, Weka. Best it comes from you.

        • Robert Guyton 9.1.2.1
          9 June 2022 at 8:12 pm

          You have a lawn?

          Living in the Stone Age still!

          No matter. Converting it into soil is something.

          Keep piling on the salt, Blade.

          That'll teach you.

        • weka 9.1.2.2
          9 June 2022 at 8:34 pm

          farmers can make their crops go crazy in various ways. Or they can ask nature for a helping hand and make their farms live in perpetuity once the fossil fuels and artificial inputs are gone.

          • Blade 9.1.2.2.1
            9 June 2022 at 8:46 pm

            Agree 100%. I'm an organic farmer. Although it must be remembered organic farming like vegan diets demands very careful management and in some cases isn't superior to conventional farming ( in my opinion). Beetroots for example have a higher nitrate content when grown conventionally. And that's what health nuts and body builders want – a high nitrate profile.

            • Robert Guyton 9.1.2.2.1.1
              10 June 2022 at 7:46 am

              "I am an organic farmer"

              You use lawn clippings primarily, as fertiliser, Blade?

              How big is your farm?

              • pat …
                10 June 2022 at 8:06 am

                A piece you may (or perhaps not) enjoy Robert.

                "Aotearoa New Zealand’s pastoral agriculture has been entirely based on this through the use of grass and clover pastures. Indeed until the expansion of dairying since the 1990s, pastoral and arable farming here used no nitrogen fertilisers – all the nitrogen came from clovers biologically fixing it. This is how organic agriculture that prohibits the use of nitrogen fertilisers works. It is therefore possible to farm without using any nitrogen fertiliser at all, in contrast to lithospheric fertilisers. Yes, compromises have to be made in the production system and there can be profit implications, but, Aotearoa New Zealand farmed for nearly its entire history without nitrogen fertilisers so it is possible to do so again."

                https://www.newsroom.co.nz/farmers-dont-need-nitrogen-fertilisers-at-all

                • Blade …
                  10 June 2022 at 8:17 am

                  Interesting expansion on what Edmeades said about clover pasture use being a lost art in NZ.

                  • pat …
                    10 June 2022 at 8:37 am

                    I see it as akin to our use of PKE….we waste over a billion a year (IIRC) importing a product that is effectively unnecessary. A lot of our issues can be traced back to the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  10 June 2022 at 9:21 am

                  This is not news to me, pat.

                  In my forest garden, I've included a wide range of leguminous plants; clovers, vetches, lupines, peas, beans, kakabeak, kowhai, tagasaste, laburnum, gleditsia, etc. to serve as nitrogen-collectors for the benefit of the other plants.

                  New Zealand farmers will return to plant-generated nitrates for their pastures before too long. Many already have.
                  I hope the warming environment doesn’t favour weevils.

                  • pat …
                    10 June 2022 at 9:30 am

                    "New Zealand farmers will return to plant-generated nitrates for their pastures before too long."

                    I expect so, though not necessarily by choice.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      10 June 2022 at 9:45 am

                      I'm betting farmers don't choose "the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank." either.

                    • KJT …
                      10 June 2022 at 9:48 am

                      Well the capital gains farmers, which appears to be the majority of "farm investors" these days, chose it, in the expectations of high returns on selling the farms.

                      Like the “house hoarders”, capital gains, not the long term future of farming, is the goal.

                    • pat …
                      10 June 2022 at 9:49 am

                      Hobsons choice

              • Blade …
                10 June 2022 at 8:10 am

                In old terms – all up, 10 acres. When I say lawn clippings, that also includes other green matter as well. The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago, not so much for the minerals, but for the paramagnetism.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  10 June 2022 at 9:15 am

                  You fertilise your entire 10 acre block with "seaweed, lawn clippings and salt"?

                  Hmmm….

                  That's a fairly thin application of lawn clippings, Blade.

                  Unless your lawn is huge. What percentage of your farm is lawn? It would have to be considerable to be able to service 10 acres!

                  How much "salt" do you need to cover that area?

                  If you are using seawater, you'd need a considerable amount to cover 10 acres; how do you collect that much seawater?

                  You also need a huge volumn of seaweed to cover 10 acres. How do you do this?

                  Your farm sounds very interesting.
                  Question: was your rockiest Israelii?

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    10 June 2022 at 9:47 am

                    Rock dust. Did it come from Israel?

                    • Blade …
                      10 June 2022 at 11:45 am

                      Nope. Up North. I originally bought it from a defunct outfit in Mt Maunganui.

                      I now buy it from: https://environmentalfertilisers.co.nz/contact/

                      Check them out. Some of their organic mixes are excellent.

                      I also use Bio Char, and my water is vortexed using Viktor Schauberger like tech.

                      Pressed for time. Will answer your other questions later.

                      Oh – seaweed meal. Beach seaweed when I have time. You cannot harvest living seaweed.

                    • Blade …
                      10 June 2022 at 7:59 pm

                      ''Unless your lawn is huge. What percentage of your farm is lawn? It would have to be considerable to be able to service 10 acres.''

                      About one third. Also boundary weeds and leaves etc. Bio Char is interesting. It is self perpetuating. But in some respects has been over sold. How Bio Char was used in the Amazon is still not completely understood.

                      ''If you are using seawater, you'd need a considerable amount to cover 10 acres; how do you collect that much seawater.''

                      Fair questions. It's not viable for most farmers. Hence ocean solids are mixed with farm water and then spread. This dude in the clip is obviously a hobby farmer like me. Other clips will show how salt in used in bigger operation.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  10 June 2022 at 8:23 pm

                  3 acres of lawn? Wow! HUGE lawn!!

                  What do you make your biochar from?

                  "The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago"

                  I didn't realise you are still applying it – why is that? Does your land need a top-up?

                  • Blade …
                    10 June 2022 at 8:51 pm

                    ''What do you make your biochar from?''

                    I buy. But for someone like you with plenty of prunings ( I would assume) you could make your own quite easily. Just remember to inoculate it.

                    "The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago"

                    I didn't realise you are still applying it – why is that? Does your land need a top-up?

                    I only applied it once as stated above for the paramagnetism. People forget rock dust can take ages to be broke down by bacteria. It is not bio available for a long time. Hence by using salt I am not doubling up on minerals or applying rock dust in a different form each year.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      11 June 2022 at 9:00 am

                      Oh, I see. It's just that you wrote:

                      "I now buy it from: https://environmentalfertilisers.co.nz/contact/"

                      I wondered if you are still applying rock dust.

                      Interesting to hear about your "Viktor Schauberger like tech." for vortexing your water. Those are pretty cool technologies – where did you get yours? What form does it take? It is possible to make your own – is that what you've done. Interesting stuff, Blade. I'd like to hear more!

                    • Blade …
                      11 June 2022 at 1:06 pm

                      I see..yes, I still buy it but not for my own use at present. We are soaking dust in water and using it in compost at a rellies place. He likes to grow herbs. blush I have told him he may be wasting his time with rock dust. He see's thing differently, time will tell. If I'm wrong, I learn something new.

                      I had mine made. It's a very simple affair. Something like the copper pipe in this link.

                      https://www.alivewater.com/vortex-water-revitalizer-product-description

                      But before you doing anything like that. Do this. Buy one. The price is highway robbery. I bought a packet of them for $4, I think, a while back on Ali express. But with postage delay at present, it's better to pay the higher price.

                      Then you can experiment. Minimum four twists one way, four the other way. Then water a pot plant etc. Better still, drink a cup of the water and if liver isn't clean, or your body needs a clean out, you will be down with flu like symptoms.

                      https://nzl.grandado.com/products/vortex-bottle-connector-tornado-in-a-bottle-cyclone-tube-tornado-maker-magic-toy-9?variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MjA4NzA4NDk4

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      11 June 2022 at 7:49 pm

                      More questions about your organic practices, Blade – what do you do with the biochar you buy?

        • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.2.3
          9 June 2022 at 9:37 pm

          Yet I've narrowed things down to seaweed, lawn clippings and salt…
          My crops go crazy.

          Blade, do you mean NaCl (sodium chloride) salt, or nitrogen, potassium, sulfur, and phosphorus (mineral) salts? Just asking because I would have thought NaCl (sea salt) couldn't be too good for your orange tree.

          My small orange tree does alright with a few NPK granules springled along the drip line twice a year. NaCl would be much cheaper. Should I apply sparingly?
          Don't want my orange crop to become completely deranged laughlaughlaugh

          Drought and Salinity in Citriculture: Optimal Practices to Alleviate Salinity and Water Stress [24 June 2021]

          • RedLogix 9.1.2.3.1
            9 June 2022 at 9:41 pm

            I would have guessed he means unprocessed 'sea salt' – which contains a pretty wide range of minerals.

          • Blade 9.1.2.3.2
            9 June 2022 at 10:04 pm

            No, ordinary unrefined sea salt. Trust me ,when I first heard of this I called bs. I was wrong. It's one of the most potent fertilisers I have ever used . See my links.

            The ratio is three and a half litres of water to 1 teaspoon of salt, once per month.

            Others use way more. Some less. I also sprinkle a handful of salt around a mature tree once a year.

            The salt must be unrefined. The minerals in unrefined salt provides a degree of buffering. Refined salt is worthless and will kill your plants. It's not good for human health either. Makes a good weed killer though.

            Even though I get great results, I was brought up on the notion salt is a poison for plants. I can't shake that mind conditioning. I still freak out when using salt on my plants. So I suggest you carry on with what you are doing with your orange tree and just use salt on a test plant to put your mind a ease.

            Salt water from the sea can be applied directly once a month. Others suggest 1/3 sea water to 2/3 tap water.

            It's true some plants are salt sensitive. Your link says that about citrus. But I have never had a problem with the above routines. However, it may be prudent to take a year off now and again.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.2.3.2.1
              9 June 2022 at 10:16 pm

              Thanks Blade, I will try diluted seawater – certainly cheaper than Yates Thrive (Citrus & Fruit). There are, of course, a range citrus fertilisers.

    • Blade 9.2
      9 June 2022 at 9:03 pm

      It's not super-duper phosphate, Robert. It was meant to be spread with equal parts Dolomite. Now you know why much of our pastural land is out of kilter.

      • Robert Guyton 9.2.1
        9 June 2022 at 9:56 pm

        You sure learned me good tonight, Sensei!

        • Blade 9.2.1.1
          9 June 2022 at 10:08 pm

          Right. Now it's your turn to learn me something I can use.

          • In Vino 9.2.1.1.1
            10 June 2022 at 10:34 pm

            My Bullshit detector keeps annoying me. It won't turn off.

            Great trolling, I have to admit.

            • Blade 9.2.1.1.1.1
              10 June 2022 at 11:11 pm

              I wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about. Sometimes changing the battery helps.

            • Robert Guyton 9.2.1.1.1.2
              11 June 2022 at 1:42 pm

              You are watering your farm with one of those??

              Now I AM astonished!

              • Blade …
                11 June 2022 at 2:52 pm

                Well, In Vino only has a quarter acre. So he can spread his bs to a reasonable concentration.laugh

                • Robert Guyton …
                  11 June 2022 at 6:01 pm

                  Like In Vino, I think you are bullsh*tting 🙂

                  • Blade …
                    11 June 2022 at 6:28 pm

                    Then why did you feign interest and waste my time? I put some effort into those posts?

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      11 June 2022 at 7:40 pm

                      You do seem to have done some research, Blade and it shows.

                    • Blade …
                      11 June 2022 at 7:57 pm

                      Not research -practical applications. I understand. It's a little too advanced. And you cannot conceive of me doing such stuff. But Robert, you didn't fool me. Anyone could see you were stringing me along. You don't go from trolling me, to suddenly hanging off my every word.laugh

                      So why did I waste my time on you? Simple. As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about.

                      Thankyou.yes

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      11 June 2022 at 8:21 pm

                      "As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about."

                      Juicy, crunchy word-salad!

                      Yummies!

                    • Blade …
                      11 June 2022 at 9:53 pm

                      It matters not what you think. Only what you wrote. I was hoping for more. But you scribbled enough.

            • Robert Guyton 9.2.1.1.1.3
              11 June 2022 at 1:43 pm

              Your detector is in fine shape, In Vino.

              • In Vino …
                11 June 2022 at 8:28 pm

                Ahh – my eventual conclusion is that Blade was really being truthful at

                9.2.1.1.1.1 when he wrote, 'I wouldn't have a clue..'

  10. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 10
    9 June 2022 at 3:05 pm

    Loved it!

    Our damned fine Minister of Police, in response to a sarcastic question from little David, as to how she would characterise her comment to bully boy Mercenary Mitchell as 'riding shot-gun with the boys,' she replied as pretty accurate!

    Slap down!

    Poto is another one of many fine Labour Government ministers.

    • weka 11.1
      9 June 2022 at 5:41 pm

      Nek minit, a whole new set of lovely iphones for people to upgrade to. Make it right to repair Brussels and then I'll be impressed.

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    TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the coalition’s awful, not good, very bad poll results
    Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 day ago

  • New HOP readers for future payment options
    Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    1 day ago

  • 2024 Reading Summary: April (+ Writing Update)
    Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    2 days ago

  • At a glance – Clearing up misconceptions regarding 'hide the decline'
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago

  • Road photos
    Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Paula Bennett’s political appointment will challenge public confidence
    The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 days ago

  • NZDF is still hostile to oversight
    Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • Winding Back The Hands Of History’s Clock.
    Holding On To The Present: The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Sweet Moderation? What Christopher Luxon Could Learn From The Germans.
    Stuck In The Middle With You: As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • A clear warning
    The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • Poll results and Waitangi Tribunal report go unmentioned on the Beehive website – where racing tru...
    Buzz  from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example.  This shows National down ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago

  • Listening To The Traffic.
    It Takes A Train To Cry: Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Comity Be Damned! The State’s Legislative Arm Is Flexing Its Constitutional Muscles.
    Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Ending The Quest.
    Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Will political polarisation intensify to the point where ‘normal’ government becomes impossible,...
    Chris Trotter writes –  New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Bernard’s pick 'n' mix for Tuesday, April 30
    TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:30am on Tuesday, May 30:Scoop: NZ 'close to the tipping point' of measles epidemic, health experts warn NZ Herald Benjamin PlummerHealth: 'Absurd and totally unacceptable': Man has to wait a year for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Why Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating in the country
    Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Worst poll result for a new Government in MMP history
    Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Pinning down climate change's role in extreme weather
    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago

  • Serving at Seymour's pleasure.
    Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago

  • Webworm LA Pop-Up
    Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago

  • “Feel good” school is out
    Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago

  • 6 Months in, surely our Report Card is “Ignored all warnings: recommend dismissal ASAP”?
    Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy. Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    3 days ago

  • Bread, and how it gets buttered
    Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Why Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating in the country
    Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago

  • Justice for Gaza?
    The New York Times reports that the International Criminal Court is about to issue arrest warrants for Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, over their genocide in Gaza: Israeli officials increasingly believe that the International Criminal Court is preparing to issue arrest warrants for senior government officials on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago

  • If there has been any fiddling with Pharmac’s funding, we can count on Paula to figure out the fis...
    Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago

  • FastTrackWatch – The case for the Government’s Fast Track Bill
    Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Bernard’s pick 'n' mix for Monday, April 29
    TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell on Iran killing its rappers, and searching for the invisible Dr. Reti
    span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    3 days ago

  • Auckland Rail Electrification 10 years old
    Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    3 days ago

  • Coalition's dirge of austerity and uncertainty is driving the economy into a deeper recession
    Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Disability Funding or Tax Cuts.
    You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • Of the Goodness of Tolkien’s Eru
    April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    3 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #17
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • Pastor Who Abused People, Blames People
    Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago

  • Vic Uni shows how under threat free speech is
    The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Winston remembers Gettysburg.
    Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • 25
    She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8.  The universe was ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Is Antarctica gaining land ice?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Policing protests.
    Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago

  • Open letter to Hon Paul Goldsmith
    Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: FastTrackWatch – The Case for the Government’s Fast Track Bill
    Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    5 days ago

  • Luxon gets out his butcher’s knife – briefly
    Peter Dunne writes –  The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • More tax for less
    Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Real News vs Fake News.
    We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Another way to roll
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Share ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Simon Clark: The climate lies you'll hear this year
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Cutting the Public Service
    It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    6 days ago

  • Luxon’s demoted ministers might take comfort from the British politician who bounced back after th...
    Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious:  we live in a troubled ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • This is how I roll over
    1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • The Waitangi Tribunal is not “a roving Commission”…
    …it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisition   NOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes –  The High Court ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Is Oranga Tamariki guilty of neglect?
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same? Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Three Strikes saw lower reoffending
    David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Luxon’s ruthless show of strength is perfect for our angry era
    Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • 'Lacks attention to detail and is creating double-standards.'
    TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • One Night Only!
    Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago

  • What did Melissa Lee do?
    It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #17 2024
    Open access notables Ice acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment: In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
    Skeptical Science
    7 days ago

  • Maori Party (with “disgust”) draws attention to Chhour’s race after the High Court rules on Wa...
    Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago

  • Who’s Going Up The Media Mountain?
    Mr Bombastic: Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • “That's how I roll”
    It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago

  • “Comity” versus the rule of law
    In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Streamlining Building Consent Changes
    The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.      “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago

  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago

  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago

  • Accelerating airport security lines
    From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago

  • Community hui to talk about kina barrens
    People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago

  • Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into force
    Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago

  • Mining resurgence a welcome sign
    There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first reading
    The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government to boost public EV charging network
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure.  The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Residential Property Managers Bill to not progress
    The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Independent review into disability support services
    The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Justice Minister updates UN on law & order plan
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Ending emergency housing motels in Rotorua
    The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and Dubai
    Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Education priorities focused on lifting achievement
    Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • NZTA App first step towards digital driver licence
    The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say.  “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Supporting whānau out of emergency housing
    Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Tribute to Dave O'Sullivan
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