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notices and features - Date published:
6:00 am, September 9th, 2015 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike -
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The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
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Another Suicide by police?
I guess it’s too soon to say there is a rise in these tragedies, or if it is an indication of a rise in suicide generally. What surprised me was that ordinary police shot him dead, not armed offenders. If this is the case, are police informally armed these days and are these officers fully trained in negotiations with unstable, suicidal individuals with guns?
I would guess that in a situation like the one in the Hutt that the police’s first priority was the safety of the ‘innocent bystanders’. In a situation like this they don’t have much ‘wiggle room’.
I always understood that many police cars carried guns in the glovebox and have for a long time
On the front page of compost it shows a cop with a fire arm that is not a pistol.- Certainly no a hand gun from the police car.
Oops Dompost
hi dv,
no, you were right first time.
Haha
I guess the police don’t keep their Bushmaster rifle in the glovebox, probably the boot.
JanM
That was my understanding also.
Apparently some cars have carried Glock pistols and Bushmaster rifles since 2011
“The project will see existing stocks of Glock pistols and Bushmaster rifles moved from storage in police stations to response vehicles”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5782719/Guns-to-be-stored-in-police-cars
If events unfolded as reported by the media (and thats a big if) then the police did the right thing in stopping this person when they did
I think an onlooker took video of it, so they’ll have to tell all
The media describe the victim as weilding a high-powered rifle, I’d like to know what a high-powered rifle is or is it merely the media trying to make the story sound even more dramatic…which probably just answers my own question
I’d say that it was the MSM trying to make it all sound more dramatic. 99% of people wouldn’t know the difference between a 0.22 and a .308
I googled the difference between high powered and low powered and there does seem to be specific reasons to call a rifle high powered but how the media could tell from some grainy pics is beyond me but then controversy creates cash i suppose
That’s just the media isn’t it making things more dramatic but at close range even a .22 will do the job.
I’m guessing they’re meaning a hunting rifle (the bangs sounded very loud on the news anyway). I don’t know much about firearms but like a .303, not a .22 which you’d use to hunt rabbits.
I think with the number of witnesses that there were it’s hard to fault the police response. However the Police Association spokesman is using this to counter the government and the police’s own stats on the reduction in violent crime which I find objectionable, scaremongering and calling for a constantly armed police force.
Yet, Undecided, it was reported he was about to put the gun down but then he was shot.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/71872891/upper-hutt-shooting-man-was-close-to-giving-himself-up
Well more like someones opinion they were going to put the gun down unfortunatel which means he was probably still holding the rifle in a threatening manner
Your logic escapes me.
A witness within meters from the gunman claimed he was about to put the gun down and you automatically assume otherwise?
Holding a rifle in a threatening manner is not the same as beginning to place it down.
It will be interesting to see what any recorded footage shows.
They released helicopter footage last night of “efforts to save gunman’s life”, the video only shows them performing CPR after the shooting, not the moments leading up to the shooting. Funny they’re happy to release video that gives a positive image, rather than the controversial stuff..
Well my logic is that the witnesses are stating opinion not facts ie
The gunman killed by police was close to giving himself up before he was shot, a witness says.
How do they know he wasn’t about to continue shooting indiscriminately
“He said there was another staff member outside talking to the gunman, so I called her. She felt he was ready to give it up.”
Thats opinion
“He was about to put the gun down but then he was shot. They were doing resuscitation right outside the shop.”
He was about to put the gun down (maybe he was maybe he wasn’t) which means he was still holding it
But really its more the media twisting stories for their own benefit
A witness sighting him lowering his weapon is not the same as their opinion on his intentions, which, in this case, coincides with what they saw.
Unfortuantely for the victim he didn’t lower the weapon earlier in which case he would still be alive today
On the face of it the police proably did the right thing but hopefully the ensuing investigation will shed more light on the matter
If he was lowering his weapon before he was shot (which an eye witness clearly claims) it raises some serious questions for the police.
The fact you believe the police probably did the right thing is merely your opinion. But it’s not based on what was reported as you incorrectly claimed.
This doesn’t sound much like giving up to me….
“Philipson said a group of those who escaped went to the other side of the road and watched events unfold.
“He stood out there in the middle of the road there with his rifle … One of the police with a dog came at him and he had a shot at the dog.”
The police dog managed to reach the man and bit onto his leg, Philipson said.
As the man tried to fire at the dog, police fired a single shot at him, which brought him to the ground. “He went down.”
@ Lost Sheep
Reports are conflicting, thus can’t be used to substantiate the assertion being made. Which is the point being being made and my contention with Undecided’s initial comment.
@ Lost Sheep
Additionally, setting a police dog upon him is not considered a negotiation tactic. It’s an attack.
Therefore, in such a highly volatile situation it’s only natural to assume he would respond in kind.
in such a highly volatile situation it’s only natural to assume he would respond in kind.
To someone who thought that walking into a public area and starting shooting with a high powered rifle was a ‘natural’ thing to do, then it might also seem ‘natural’ that continuing to shoot when the Police are very obviously trying to stop you was going to improve your outcomes.
But for me, it sounds completely nuts.
On the other hand, given the number of potential victims directly in the immediate line of fire of someone who was actively shooting, I would have thought it completely ‘natural’ for the Police to try and resolve that threat as rapidly as possible….
@ Lost Sheep
Clearly walking into a public area and firing a firearm was a indication he was unbalanced, not natural. Nice attempted twist though.
Therefore, it’s only natural to assume that further provoking him would result in him responding in kind.
It’s yet to be established if lives were in further danger, especially if he was lowering his weapon as a witness claims.
So he was lowering his rifle at the same time as he was shooting at the police dog that was about to bite his leg, sounds like bollocks to me. The only person that I feel sorry for is the police officer that shot him.
He may have been lowering it before the dog was set upon him.
He might have been about to give up to the woman, but the police only knew that he was firing shots down the street and inside a building with a lot of people around. I think it could have ended up with no loss of life, but hard to blame the police for acting.
Irrespective of the law, it should be common knowledge that brandishing a firearm (or what is perceived to be a firearm) is likely to lead to one being shot.
It is common knowledge?
Not the first time by any means that has been demonstrated to be the case?
Exactly. Though I’m not sure why you question marked it? Typo perhaps?
Apologies. I misinterpreted the ‘should be’ to imply that it currently was not.
Apology accepted.
There has been lots of cases of people carrying and showing imitation firearms in public and not getting shot. Armed Offenders get called and try to diffuse the situation. I think it depends on the attitude of the offender on whether the police shoot or not, are they being threatening or relinquishing. In this case it appears the guy was doing both at times.
I’m glad our police aren’t trigger happy like in the US, because we shouldn’t be killing people unnecessarily and I think our police show good judgement on when to use force or not.
And there have been cases of people being shot. There was one some years back where a metal pipe was mistaken for a firearm.
There was also the baseball bat incident.
The police are people just like the rest of us, therefore, you can’t blame them for not wanting to take the risk, thus the public need to take this into account.
Furthermore, police often warn of the dangers (people may actually end up being shot) of brandishing imitation firearms.
Sure, although over the years I’ve heard many more news stories of people showing BB guns and firing in public and AOS being called out without firing, rather than offender shot dead armed with BB gun.
In this case, the offender was a danger to the public early on and it appears to have been a highly volatile situation. I think it would be hard for the police to switch from that mindset to one of him not being a threat unless he was face down on the road with his hands behind his head. Just my take.
When human nature is removed, the police are meant to act professionally and within the law.
An evaluation of the threat should have been (thus most likely would have been) taken at the time of the shooting. What the genuine threat level was at the time of the shooting is yet to be established, thus to early to point blame.
Pretty stark hearing Sharon Zollner from ANZ talking (National Radio this morning) about the “Truckometer” stalling for 6 quarters in a row. (The “truckometer” is a measure of freight movements, and is a pretty good approximation of economic activity).
Her view was that the economy is stalling, that we are exceedingly vulnerable to the Chinese slowdown, and that GDP growth down to 0-2% increase makes our economy far more vulnerable to changes in sentiment.
Here in Auckland it is incredibly easy to see the number of cranes on the horizon, hot new waterfront deals for luxury hotels, and think this is such a wonderful bubble we live in here.
And – apart from what you don’t see in the rest of the country – the story of the economy for me is the number of people homeless and begging on our streets, squashed in garages, in our hospitals, doing labouring but preferring to live in a car (as seen in the Western Leader this week).
When 6% unemployed goes to 7 and 8%, nothing will save Key.
Luckily for National there is no competition.
Key wins by default.
Key’s political competition is the economy, and he is losing.
Far more people trust Key with the economy than the Labour/Greens/NZ first combo.
The economy could crash and burn and Key would still be first choice.
Key has no rabbits to pull out of the hat anymore.
He has no Lord of the Rings extravaganzas, Rugby World Cups, the Sky City development won’t show in the construction stats for ages, Christchurch rebuild has peaked, dairy is fucked for years while farmers recover, tax take is low, TPPA died. He’s got nothing (except the hope that Auckland’s real estate market is actually immortal).
As for National vs Green-Labour coalition economic management trust, after 9 years it’s never about the alternative government, it’s about whether in the voters mind there is something so outstanding in a government that despite economic stagnation, they remain convinced the current lot are not stale and in need, as Michael Cullen said, of “Someone else’s turn to bat.”
That is, as Sharon Zollner said above, 0-2% growth makes everyone far too vulnerable to sentiment.
Actually it’s about credibility, which is Labours problem, they have none.
The way Labour has acted over the last 7 years has been abysmal, changing leaders and policy every 5 mins has destroyed the voters trust.
They just don’t look like a party who has what it takes to successfully run a country anymore.
Do you really believe all this BS, BM, or are you just bored and stirring for the fun of it?
I sense the latter.
BM current debt clock
NZ$ 106,592,057,833
And in June 92,496,090,302
Thus an INCREASE of 14 billion in 3 months
NOTE an INCREASE of 14 billion in 3 mths!!!!!!!
@BM
Key only has a 61-60 majority even where he was able to spin (lie) at the election that all was rosy in the economy. As more and more people see through Key and the economy tanks steadily towards 2017 Key and his revolting front bench will be in real trouble.
I see his resignation in Autumn 2016-he hates losing.
“And – apart from what you don’t see in the rest of the country – the story of the economy for me is the number of people homeless and begging on our streets, squashed in garages, in our hospitals, doing labouring but preferring to live in a car”
Yes, we do see it Ad. The rise in begging and homelessness in Wellington has been heartbreaking to witness. Any Wellingtonian can tell you how much this has risen in the last couple of years.
I had a chat with a woman who was begging. You see her all the time down Lambton Quay. I was struck by her sense of dignity, her friendliness, her articulate speech, and wondered how the f*ck such a regular person who probably once had a job and a life ended up spending her days begging for food on the footpath.
Not many people seem to care though. Perhaps exposing the stories of the the disappearing wealth and increasing debt of of the former middle classes, might be a factor in unseating Key.
It seems so many people, perhaps excluding comfortable financially well insulated baby boomers and the very wealthy, regardless of their generation, have all been kicked down a rung in the last decade.
Somethings gotta give.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11510029
Is Angelina Jolie advocating war? I did not see that coming at all.
I’m not sure what she’s advocating from that. She’s calling for a stronger response but the article doesn’t actually say what sort of response. That could be on purpose if the MSM is looking to build a case for war.
Yeah true thats my assumption I’m curious as to what sort of response shes talking about though
Is jonkey nactional and his mates trying to undermine and create a crisis in the public health system in Christchurch….and create a climate for the vultures of privatisation of health to worm their way into Christchurch’s superb, caring, expert, efficient public hospital and state run health system?…SHAME!
Annette King is a very good opposition spokesperson on Health!
…GO Labour!
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201769896/fresh-allegations-of-bad-behaviour-by-health-officials
He’s National so the answer to that question is: Yes, most definitely. National understands that the easiest way to get permanent super-profits is to get the government to pay the private sector to do what the government actually does best.
Israel refuses to take refugees but tries to create more refugees
‘13,000 Palestinian buildings to be demolished in West Bank – UN report’
http://www.rt.com/news/314682-palestinian-buildings-demolition-israel/
‘Israel destroys EU-funded West Bank shelter for Palestinians while expanding settlements’
http://www.rt.com/news/240009-israel-eu-building-demolished/
‘Israeli court makes way for demolition of Palestinian village’
http://www.rt.com/news/255933-israel-court-demolition-village/
Israel should be forced back to the 1948 borders and Amerikkka plus bankers and the military-industrial elite should stop sending them money and arms. It’s only because the neon-CONs want an outpost in the middle east to stir up trouble with the arabs! Israel out of Palestinian land!!!
Overcrowding in New Zealand. Some questions for the government here about infrastructure, health spending, tenancy laws, and adequate regulation and monitoring.
Questions also for the landlord class.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/71825542/slumlike-conditions-anxiety-emerging-in-queenstown-amid-housing-crisis
In the above Stuff article, a landlord gets $140 per week each for 14 residents. One bathroom provided.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/283650/squalid-rentals-in-millionaires‘-resort. In this article on National radio this morning we learn about Queenstown, where up to thirty people are regularly living in one house, four to a room. Meantime, one third of luxury houses stand empty, as they are holiday homes.
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/study-links-overcrowding-and-antibiotic-use-2015070313#axzz3lBTuvsHK
Surprise, surprise. Housing has an effect on people’s health.
And the ODT tells us that overcrowded hospitals kill some 400 patients a year, similar to the road toll.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/21330/overcrowding-killing-patients
Hi lprent,
I sent a post idea to the gmail address a while ago but never heard anything back, to I sent it through to your geek address yesterday (using my slightly dumb smart phone, which couldn’t handle an explanatory note using the keypad). Did you get it ok?
Usual problem. Just very busy at work, spent the weekend with my parents (mother has been very sick), and I’m not getting enough sleep. Lyn caught that damn coughing cold that has been floating around and that laid me out for weeks.
I have three guest posts that I need to look through. But they are down the list after doing basics like running moderation.
Put vicks on her feet
Doesn’t work for every one but when the woman was coughing her lungs out and hadn’t slept for days, I came across this.
http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2012/12/20/ridiculous-vicks-remedy-actually-cured-cough/
I do not lie when I say the coughing literally disappeared within 5 minutes and she coughed maybe once during the night.
Instead of thick socks we put freezer bags on her feet and covered them with a pair of light socks.
I will suggest it 🙂
Which would explain the lack of moderation the other day.
*sniff*
Own it, weasel.
I usually moderate (as do others) every day. That isn’t to say that I don’t miss some. But I’d seldom drop below seeing 85% of all comments.
What does happen is there is a shift in the depth when I don’t have time. I usually go draconian and start handing out bans like confetti. It becomes less work (for me) to get rid of people acting up for significiant periods of time than it is waste time to educate them about behavioral boundaries.
When I have the time, I tend to be a whole lot ‘nicer’ and tolerant. People often view that as being being little or no moderation.
But much of the time what people regard as things that should be moderated are simply people being impolite, offensive, curt or abrupt. None of which are commonly of interest to me as a moderator. I’m only really interested in things that constrain debate, lose authors and moderators, or otherwise affect the site. Peoples feelings are the least of my interests…
But I usually sweep through several times during the day. Typically about 4 times. Generally there is little or nothing for me to do.
Cheers, thanks for that – just making sure you got it.
You your loved ones get better soon.
a guest post, this sounds exciting. I’m kind of hoping it’s about the worship of Dionysis, and I’m really hoping it’s not about vaccination, but I’m sure it’s neither and I can’t think what it might be. Are you going to give us a clue?
A description of a pseudo-Weberian model of leadership and its application to political tactics.
rather banal, sadly. But I let it gestate for a while after writing, and it has a point that still seems vaguely constructive, so I figure why not.
My first attempt was a fairly ranty post following on from the Assange debate at its height a few years back, and it either got missed or simply filed in the round filing cabinet. Probably for the best. So I’ll be thinking many times before writing a post on vaccination, cyclists, or smoking – I know I’m right, but to what good? 🙂
And now to throw a spanner in the flag debate:
Something that put a smile on my face:
Cameron Slater today again on his blog site not being able to write “NZ Herald.” Attributes an article to one of their writers and instead of ‘Herald’ puts ‘A newspaper’.
It reminds me of kid putting his hands over his eyes in front of everyone and says, “I can see you but you can’t see me!” 😊
My City Sucks and it’s Great
Interestingly enough, this is pretty much the same system that the Venus Project for not only getting rid of the garbage but also delivery of the groceries.
10 years on from Katrina, and I have to say this is the best analysis I’ve seen so far.
Oh and I laughed too.
I wonder if ‘heck-of-a -job’ Brownie was at the festivities?
Good, funny and sad video.
Call for submissions on the EPA. Submissions close tomorrow.
The rather large shortcomings of stored solar electricity (eg electric cars) and why I see green tech as an interim not a true sustainability solution,
https://twitter.com/deepgreenresist/status/641416116640813056
It’s one of the reasons why I hold that batteries for storing solar power should be illegal. Use the power generated to keep our dams full and our rivers flowing.
But that requires that we act cooperatively and the RWNJs don’t like that idea as it means that they can’t become rich bludgers.
And here’s the thing: I don’t really consider that hole in the ground to be an environmental catastrophe – it’s just a hole in the ground. How it was dug was, the poisons that leech into the ground from the processing of the extracted earth is but the actual hole in the ground not so much.
I probably would have said that is the way we need to go not so long ago. But now I think following any sort of world economic crisis this sort of new technology is the first that is going to go bankrupt. Then we’ve got dwindling oil supplies to deal with, so everyone having one of these in their home is a pipe dream.
Not sure what the answer is, maybe people can fashion together old car batteries if they want storage capacity.
Another commentary on the flag. My bold, doesn’t sound too hard, does it?
http://idealog.co.nz/design/2015/09/seeing-red-peak
that sounds sensible, eventually. Did you read the Metro article about Absurdistan?
It fits this government, to a “T”.
Which brings me to the excellent article in the Metro by Graham Adams titled:
How bizarre: Is New Zealand becoming the Absurdistan of the South Pacific?
well worth the read…
http://www.metromag.co.nz/current-affairs/how-bizarre/
“Say No”…fabulous music from the Wairoa whanau re- amalgamation
( when I watched I couldn’t help thinking about jonkey’s new New Zealand flag at $26 million)
SAY NO!
…and to the TPPA!
…and to privatisation of social welfare and State housing
…and selling off of State Assets…
…and to foreign buy up of New Zealand !….SAY NO !
Lessons from a crashed economy NOT learned:
Although that’s about the UK I’m pretty sure that the same holds true for NZ. Increasing debt is, IMO, the only thing that keeping the economy going and the only place it can go is down.
As the saying goes: Debt that can’t be repaid won’t be repaid.
Abby Martin is back. Her new show. Woohoo.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14663
Those that are day dreaming ones that think “negotiating” peace in Syria is possible, you are idiots, you have a choice between the following if you believe that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMM7is9Hgo
One or the other will win, or at least play a major role,
So where do “progressives” stand, FFS?
Logical analysis will show, that Jabhat Al Nusra and allied forces will win the war in Syria, leaving the US and the west to shame, and after all Osama Bin Laden will have won HIS war and Israel is next to fall. The West and Russia will all be screwed.