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6:00 am, July 12th, 2022 - 119 comments
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The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
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Nats Scott Simpson……the unaware Irony.! How many years….have critical thinkers…been trying to red flag this? Were his Nats EVER interested ? Mind boggling.
Birchfield and his like….somehow retain a following. Of similar dinosaurs. Reminds of a King Cnut.!
Or similar : ) ….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut#The_story_of_Cnut_and_the_waves
He won't be happy until Westport is washed into the Tasman sea and it's former site a low lying lagoon, at which point he'll write a column for the Daily Blog blaming "wokism".
Well…that was a lol. : ) And maybe some gold be washed to the top ? A cunning plan !
Power and roading infrastructure in the South Island takes a serious hit. Those sitting trapped in the dark can be sure, (though it may take a few days in some cases), that they will reconnected to the grid and the roads will be cleared.
As weather extremes get worse and closer together that certainty will disappear. As more and more of us get to sit in cold dark homes, for longer periods, cut off from our neighbours by floods and slips. and power outages.
There must come a realisation that there will be a time where the hits to power and roading infrastructure cannot be rebuilt.
When we reach that point, will BAU still continue?
Will we still allow our transportation system to be dominated by fossil fueled vehicles?
Will we still allow valuable crop lands to be ploughed under for intensive dairying conversions?
Will still be mining and importing coal?
Will Huntly coal fired power station still be operating?
When that time comes, will we try to mend our ways?
When that time comes, will it be far too late to make any difference what we do, will we find that the changes to the climate will be irreversible?
What then?
Re Sri Lanka
First thing done by the 'current ' admin a couple of years ago was
CUT TAXES
Sound familiar.
You know, if this was the Soviet Union you'd almost suspect the usually sycophantic media had got the memo that the Politburo thinks comrade Fosters inability to consistently hit his tractor production quotas is now a problem…
Clustopher Luxon…saying how he thinks…well…maybe.
Experts…..
Has any NZ politician ever been given such a big platform to say nothing at all so as to remain as politically beige as possible? First he says he won't criminalize abortions despite the fact he also considers them to be murder, and now the guy can't even take a position that masks are useful protection against airborne viruses.
Luxon and the previous three Nat leaders have called for looser restrictions at every stage. They have now made tighter restrictions politically impossible and there is only one possible direction of travel – stay the same or loosen further. They have what they wanted all along, and as the consequences of that become clear, only the most brazen of liars and opportunists among them will reverse course and call for a tightening.
Yep. Clustopher (tip o' the hat..Blazer ! ) Luxon could be quite a dangerous man. Doesnt "quite" say….where he really is on these and other vitals.
That, and the rest of these Nact types…has indeed focused me. On doing my best to make sure they never get power in NZ.
Hence. Colours. Nailed. : )
Also "not giving a shit" is different from "moving on". 300 people still dying from Covid daily in the UK (almost 50% worse than NZ's 17 average deathsper day on a per capita basis) in addition to the 182,000 who have already died. If Luxon thinks that's the model to follow then that says more about him than it does about the current government.
Now this is a global supply chain shortage issue which I can live with!
RTDs are one of the entry points into alcohol abuse (sweet mixers hiding the taste of alcohol) – having them off the shelves (because of a shortage of bourbon) seems to be a win for health.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/129239817/global-bourbon-shortage-creates-lack-of-supply-of-cheap-rtds
excellent.
The fertiliser shortages might finally push us towards getting off that shit as well and into regenag.
You mean like Sri Lanka?
yes, exactly. A wealthy industrialised country like NZ should totally take the opportunity of lowering art fert supplies and turn it into an umitigated disaster that collapses the economy.
🙄
What do you think will happen to NZ if we blithely try to keep BAU and art fert supplies don't recover? At the same time as we have crop failures globally and locally from increased frequency, climate induced, extreme weather events. Writing is on the wall for those that are paying attention. We have a window in which to transition well and by choice, before that choice is taken from us.
There is no evidence that fertiliser supplies won't recover when supply chains open up again and we do, in fact, produce our own at Kāpuni and Ravensdown among other places.
You do have this tendency to make sweeping statements about agriculture and power generation without demonstrating much understanding the technical or geographical practicalities.
Agree Belladonna. They are addictive with all the sugar and alcohol.
RIP Monty Norman
Monty Norman, composer of iconic James Bond theme, dies at 94 (msn.com)
And from that great philosopher himself:
"Governments change. The lies stay the same."
-James Bond, 'GoldenEye'.
This is pretty compelling stuff Nicky. Especially the part about lobby groups fighting change:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nicky-hager-being-investigative-journalists-in-times-of-trouble
Being investigative journalists in times of trouble
By Nicky Hager
I have admired and supported Hager's work for years, but like others on the Old Left have been disappointed to see him join (seemingly unquestioningly) the Team of Mainstream Media Personalities Standing Against (what we have reliably been informed is ) The Far Right.
…a US-inspired protest against covid policies that was used as movement building for the far right.
The protest was in February this year, when New Zealand anti-vaccine groups staged an action imitating the Canadian “freedom convoy” truck protest. Hundreds of people took over the Parliament sector of the city for four weeks, with effigies of people in nooses and being guillotined, and slogans about executing the Prime Minister. It had an ugly ending with protesters pelting the police with rocks and setting their tents on fire.
The most chilling part was the social media statistics. They revealed that more people were getting news about the parliament protest from right-wing and conspiracy social media than from all the mainstream news media combined.
(my bold)
It's concerning that Hager refers to the US as inspiring the Freedom Village protest, then also refers to the Canadian Trucker protest. Which is it? Or has Hager blindly accepted the line that the Canadian Truckers were also inspired and funded by 'US Far Right White Supremacist Misogynist whatevers…' ?
As yet I have seen no actual evidence, no paper trail (for which Hager is rightfully respected) to support these claims.
It was not "hundreds" of protestors in Wellington, it was thousands. But what is an order of magnitude or two between professional investigative journos?
I did not see the "effigies of people being guillotined" in the Wellington protest…I'd be grateful if someone could provide a photo or two to verify this…perhaps Hager is a tad confused and is remembering the 2012 Anti Asset Sales protest?
And no, Hager…the Wellington protest was overwhelmingly peaceful until the heavily armed and armoured police squad moved in with their super pepper spray and crowd control tech and provoked a riot. The rock throwing and the burning only began after the cops began their purge of what a sitting MP desribed as a "river of filth".
An honest investigative journalist would have also shown pictures of the unprovoked police brutality of the 10th of February, and how the riot cops on the 2nd March forced peaceful protestors from their tents and the common cops moved in behind to destroy and lay waste what had been carefully and lovingly built over the previous three plus weeks.
An honest investigative journalist would have shared with us his interviews with the Freedom Villagers, and how he realised that far from being generic "anti-vaxxers", many of them had willingly taken the Pfizer Product and been seriously negatively impacted.
An honest journalist would have noted that it was the total denial by the Ministry of Health, the Government and the "mainstream news" of these injuries that drove many to Wellington. And a professional investigative journalist would have commented that how it is totally bizarre the insistence that those who suffered heart injuries from the first or second shot (or anaphylaxis) had to have a second or third shot in order to keep their jobs.
Or perhaps, a good investigative journalist would have gone out there into the world and found out why so many of us have turned away years ago from the "mainstream news" providers (that he clearly believes should be our only source of truth) and prefer to find our own sources of information such as established scientific journals and Covid data sites.
Such a pity there are so few investigative journalists with the integrity to step outside the mainstream and actually speak kanohi ki te kanohi with those they seem happy to accuse.
"An honest journalist would have noted that it was the total denial by the Ministry of Health, the Government and the "mainstream news"…" Rosemary McDonald
Are you inferring Rosemary, that Nikki Hagar is not an honest journalist?
The supporters of Russia's war against Ukraine, also spread the same smear against our journalists, that they are all corrupt hacks toeing the Western MSM line.
…has Hager blindly accepted the line that the Canadian Truckers were also inspired and funded by 'US Far Right White Supremacist Misogynist whatevers… Rosemary McDonald
No, but my fear is that you have.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2022.2061948
Denial much?
Europe reaches equality,
Euro/us$ parity,The Euro has now depreciated 14% TY and imported energy costs have increased by both demand inflation,and currency depreciation.
Lagarde and the ECB showing the risks with continued QE when inflation shock was not only a war levy.
https://twitter.com/RobinBrooksIIF/status/1546598034104098822?cxt=HHwWjIC9kfitz_YqAAAA
Health Minister responds to doctors' claim 'catastrophic collapse' coming.
Health Minister Andrew Little spoke to Morning Report.
Corin Dann doesn't understand what Little says and keeps insisting it's a 'crisis'. Little describes the situation using words similar too, or meaning virtually the same, but Dann won't be happy until the word crisis is used.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018849118/health-minister-responds-to-doctors-claim-catastrophic-collapse-coming
Corin Dann is just another right wing poodle imho
This is starting up again; though probably too late now for this year's local body elections, and likely next year's general election too:
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/voting-age-appeal-be-heard-supreme-court-today
However, that does rather ignore the Court of Appeal's statement from last year:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/13/fight-to-lower-voting-age-to-16-will-head-to-supreme-court/
The AG taking refuge in section 12 of the BORA also seems to contradict Section 21 (1) (i) of the Human Rights Act:
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/DLM304475.html
The more relevant part of the BORA would seem to be Section (4), which is why Make It 16 are going for a declaration of inconsistency rather than a nullification. Though it seems more likely that it'll be kicked back down to the Court of Appeal given the wording of the Supreme Court's approved question. Everyone appears to recognize the inconsistency, but no one seems to want to do anything about it:
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/whole.html
This is fantastic:
https://fortune.com/2022/07/11/elon-musk-twitter-meme-mocks-bots-court-delaware-showdown/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXW4J4xXgAAXFKs?format=jpg&name=small
He'll either buy it at a cheaper price (probably won't use any of his own money to do it) or it'll be revealed just how over priced twitter is and the shareholders will be asking questions of the veracity of the boards statements
Win-win all round
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TWTR/
The old "don't talk about the bots let them pad the numbers trick" goes boom
Something about chickens and roosts springs to mind
Let them work:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/129197272/plea-by-unvaccinated-nurses-to-return-to-work#comments
Why would you want medical staff who don't comprehend, or refuse to follow, medical science, to be responsible for your health?
Apart from the added risk to patients that have immune issues.
There are valid reasons why someone doesn't want/need/require all the shots and boosters and I'd rather have an unvaccinated or unboosted nurse looking after me than no nurse at all or nurses that are so burnt out that they might make mistakes
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nursing-shortage-nurses-broken-while-sector-faces-thousands-of-vacancies/L7NUXOPG4AB472OKXOH5QJSUMU/
Time for Ardern to support the nurses
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/pm-jacinda-ardern-suggests-migrant-nurses-put-off-by-needing-to-stay-in-role-for-two-years-perhaps-don-t-want-to-be-a-nurse-in-nz.html
You may want to have a fool responsible for your medical treatment. I don't!
Adern is correct.
Why bring in Nurses to help with the shortages, that don’t work as nurses for a couple of years. No point.
If this keeps up then you won't have either!
'Why bring in Nurses to help with the shortages, that don’t work as nurses for a couple of years. No point.'
A couple of years is better than no years or at all because, unless you've failed to notice, we're in a crisis
Maybe the nurses could claim to be DJs instead then they'd have no problems getting in
"No years at all" is the point.
If they won't even commit to two years, what is the point of bringing them in.
So why only nurses then, why not do the same for GPs
(Apart from sexism of course)
Apparently because nurses not staying in nursing once they get residency is an issue, but GPs don't do that enough for it to be a problem. My guess is they looked at some data from a Ministry and made the decision based on advice based on what's happening the real world. It's stupid politics given everything else that is going on, but is it a bad policy?
I mean, if you were a nurse in the UK, burnt out, hating living there, and you got the opportunity to immigrate to NZ and quit nursing and go work in a less stressful job, what's not to love?
So lets throw some figures around (the numbers don't matter so much as the gist of it)
Lets say100 nurses come in and 10% of nurses don't hang around so 10 nurses leave early meaning 90 nurses stay
Is it better to make it less desirable for nurses to work here in the hopes that those who do stay longer or is it better to make it easier and more desirable for nurses to come here
For example 150 nurses arrive, 20% leave early (just a figure I plucked since Ardern wouldn't tell us) but that still leaves 120 nurses
If nurses are in hot demand globally and we can't match other countries wages then surely it makes sense to do whatever else we can to attract nurses here?
I'd guess that 10% is quite a large shortfall for the health planners.
I thought the issue wasn't that nurses leaving NZ, but getting residency and not staying in nursing.
I also think NZ is a reasonably attractive place to try and get residency. I'm in favour of bonding and think we should use it more.
You ripped that joke off Farrar. What's the deal with RWNJs stealing other people's material?!
I'm surprised you actually recognize a joke
shall we take bets on who gets banned next if you two start having another go?
I'm pretty hot on this for three reasons:
Puckish Rogue continues a long line of chancers abusing other's content for their own means.
I guess some people create, and some incarcerate!
you could have riffed that of PR's casual, throw away joke, but instead you made it personal. Remember how mods don't like having their time wasted, and how flaming tends to irritate them?
I wanted to point out that PR had used someone else's specific joke written on another forum without attribution. Despite your assertion, it was not PR’s joke at all.
Here’s the quote:
– David Farrar
and link:
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/07/pm_says_migrant_nurses_may_not_want_to_be_nurses.html
The second comment explained why I took that position.
How is that wasting moderator's time?
[what you appear to be missing is that I was giving both you and PR a headsup to not start in on each other. Now I will make my point in BOLD.
Had you made the point you did in your last comment (your view, quote, link) there would have been no problem. The comment explains really clearly what you are on about and thus everyone reading and wanting to take part knows. Your FB-esque original comment looked like taking a pot shot at PR and it wasn’t possible to know what you were on about.
The wasting mod time is that here you are yet again arguing about moderation, something you have a history of. You could have asked early on where the boundaries are, but instead you expect me as a mod to do the extra mahi and explain ad nauseum.
It’s actually really simple: use your words to explain the political point you are making, do this at the start. Avoid taking pot shots at commenters. Stop arguing with the mods – weka]
mod note.
Are DJs on the Green List and do they have to DJ for 2 years here before they can apply for Residency? And after that they can go into property development?
"you may want a fool responsible for your medical treatment, I don't"
I just want someone who is trained and competent to carry out whatever medical procedure I need. I know if I go into a hospital or medical practice right now, there is a big chance I will get covid from either other patients or medical staff (vacinated or unvacinated).
Do you not relize that the health system is on the brink of collapse? Everyday there are articles in Stuff about Drs and nurses on the brink. We are 4000 nurse down. If these nurses/drs were unvacinated and we had a war zone with sick people dying would you say I don't want these fools looking after these people?
'If these nurses/drs were unvacinated and we had a war zone with sick people dying would you say I don't want these fools looking after these people?'
This right here is what its all about
If this was a war zone, all field medics would have had mandatory vaccinations by command order, so really not the best analogy. You really don't want infection roaring unchecked through territory with no sanitation or infrastructure.
Not if they were hard up for medical personal
They would be drafted, and fully vaccinated when they were kitted out.
Ever heard of conscientious objectors?
Conchies that refused to join the medical corps, Merchant Navy or other options were put in jail. Where many were treated worse by the guards, than actual criminals.
10 March 2016, Families of NZ conscientious objectors sought to share and preserve stories, News, University of Otago, New Zealand
Refusing to shoot people for moral reasons, and taking the consequences, is a commendable moral choice. Refusing to take sensible precautions to protect the health of your patients……. Is something that most of the conchies wouldn’t have agreed with.
One would have to question the General that as casualties stack up, keeps 700 nurses in a POW camp at home, because there was a question mark over the last item of their medical.
Conscientious objectors don't get sent to front lines
Why would you go to a hospital if you don't believe what the doctors and scientists tell you?
Some doctors think boys can become girls.
Its not a accept everything or accept nothing situation.
It's impossible to take seriously anyone who insists on dragging any argument back to a single and not really equivalent issue.
Seriously?
Sure then because I think the risk of covid has been massively overblown and I support those that don't want to/have objections to/are unable to have the injections I should also not go to the hospital if I break an arm or something, because its equivalent
Labours on the wrong side of this, deal with it
The statistics from countries that didn't have as comprehensive a covid response as ours, prove that anyone who claims " risk of covid has been massively overblown" is divorced from reality.
Well you're on the wrong side of the science and evidence, so you deal with it
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
How many of those deaths were actually caused by covid?
So yeah overblown.
But it made incredible profits for Big Pharma, the MSM had everyone glued to the screens (if it bleeds it leads) and it got Labour an overwhelming victory in the election
Yeah right. All those people I know overseas whose family and friends died of covid, are just being "overblown".
Nope, not overblown, but severely underestimated.
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
I think the arguement is relevant. It is about people who deny science, i.e. that its not posible to change your sex and that the evidence for puberty blockers is experimental at best.
All these people talking about a shortage of medical staff, a "crises" as if it has suddenly happened.
The shortage of GP' s, Nurses and other staff has been apparent for years.
Our local medical centre hasn't been fully staffed for over a decade.
"The shortage of GP' s, Nurses and other staff has been apparent for years."
Yes, of course, but the scale has changed significantly.
For example, according to the NZNO in 2012 the ADHB was short about 120 nurses. "NZNO organiser Craig Muir says, “These shortages are shocking."" In March 2022, the ADHB was short by 428 nurses.
I acknowledge these are two different sources, but if the data comparison is valid, that's a big change over the 10 years.
Getting steadily worse over decades is hardly a sudden crisis.
In fact most of us were predicting it, for our proffesions for decades.
My own trades/Proffesions have an over thirty year training gap, since it was decided that bringing in already trained "skilled migrants" was cheaper than training our own kids.
I admit to a degree of shadenfraude, as those who cheer leaded the whole "reforms" and profited by the whole shemozzle, get bitten on the arse, as we predicted, so long ago.
"Getting steadily worse over decades is hardly a sudden crisis."
Yes, the point I was making was about the scale. The situation is far worse than 10 years ago.
"since it was decided that bringing in already trained "skilled migrants" was cheaper than training our own kids."
Training our own is preferable, but it takes time and we still may not have enough to allow for population growth. Bringing in trained migrants will likely always be part of the solution. Right now it needs to be a big part.
No. It doesn't, because it will just carry on the addiction. And the problem of adding more people when the infrastructure cannot possibly be expanded fast enough to keep up.
"because it will just carry on the addiction."
Unless we have willing trainees, and can train them in sufficient numbers, there is no option. Besides, having foreign trained nurses helps with cultural and professional diversity. It's a good thing.
And your point is KJT.?
Yes its been a problem for years. I posted recently an article by Dr Ian Powell who met with David Clark 5 and a half years ago and said there are three problems for the workforce……staff shortages, staff shortages and staff shortages.
2009. Though I could look up almost any other year.
On solutions to the shortage of doctors in Australia and New Zealand | The Medical Journal of Australia (mja.com.au)
I wish the media instead of harping on and on about the need for immigrant nurses would check out the requirements for Registration with the NZ Nursing Council. basically an applicant from a country where the education is in English, UK, Ireland, Singapore and USA and Canada where all conditions are met registration will be granted in 30 or so days. All other countries will have to prove scope and competencies and pass an IELTS exam, most don't. To grant immediate residency without registration would be foolhardy as all we would have is a number of Nurse Aides who like most immigrant Nurses be gone to Australia as soon as able.
Absolutely. I want to know that the nurses looking after me are properly trained and qualified to NZ standards.
FFS yes lets bring these nurses back! It's desperate.
C'mon get real, its only desperate for plebs like us, the ruling class don't have to worry about it
Be kind
Aroha
Why would you want every layer of the public service staffed by people who don't have the wits or the fortitude to refuse to follow stupid orders?
So much stupidity all around!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-high-court-rules-vaccination-mandates-for-educators-healthcare-workers-justified-dismisses-challenge/Q4NCC26OS7VOPOP72AR7TSYRJU/
Let them work?
NO!
Let them work?
Done it.
Why not let them work Anne?
Is it that you fear they will be more likely to pass covid on? Or you think they shouldn't be practicing if they don't agree with all medical procedures?
They are more likely to pass covid on.
As well as being less likely to take other sensible precautions to protect their patients.
As psych nurse mentioned @ 13.2.1 no health care worker has died yet from attracting Covid-19 at work in NZ. To mandate a vaccinated workforce is helping a lot to keep it this way.
Anecdotally I've seen it spread through all different groups of people, vaccination status doesn't seem to be a deciding factor, but I'd be interested to know if we have evidence of only the unvaccinated being the superspreaders?? Highly vaccinated countries are getting high case numbers are they not?
Your second sentence is a slur on these health workers, as their job everyday requires sensible decision making.
"Anecdotally"???
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105
USA. 67% vaccinated. Death rate 308/100k.
NZ 94% vaccinated. Death rate 31/100k.
It is even more striking if you compare highly vaccinated US states, with the Republican idiotvilles.
"job everyday requires sensible decision making".
Which is why we don't need idiots, in medical care.
They did enough damage in parliament grounds.
You know perfectly well why nurses (and doctors) who are not vaccinated (and masked) can't work in their profession so don't pretend otherwise.
But surely masking up is all thats needed to protect us from the virus, especially if we're vaccinated, therefore the nurses just need to wear ppe and we're all good to go
Unless…
Masking up and regular testing. You know like what happened in MIQ before there was a vaccine
Please tell us what happened in MIQ before there was a vaccine and how that compares with working in a healthcare setting. Just for good measure you may want to include a comparison of transmissibility of the current variants vs. the earlier ones that are relevant to MIQ.
My point is Incognito that prior to vaccines nurses worked MIQ. There are many health care settings but in MIQ and and at the Jet Park where covid cases went, nurses interacted with people,taking swabs, temparatures monitoring symptoms etc, with great care. They were also tested regularly.
Having attended an ED in the last few weeks where we were not asked if we were vacinnated, nor were we particularly isolated, nor tested for covid, I am unsure that there is that much difference
You know perfectly well why nurses (and doctors) who are not vaccinated (and masked) can't work in their profession …
We do?
Vaccine effectiveness studies have conclusively demonstrated the benefit of COVID-19 vaccines in reducing individual symptomatic and severe disease, resulting in reduced hospitalisations and intensive care unit admissions. However, the impact of vaccination on transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 needs to be elucidated.
This study showed that the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people.
The scientific rationale for mandatory vaccination in the USA relies on the premise that vaccination prevents transmission to others, resulting in a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.
Yet, the demonstration of COVID-19 breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated health-care workers (HCW) in Israel, who in turn may transmit this infection to their patients, requires a reassessment of compulsory vaccination policies leading to the job dismissal of unvaccinated HCW in the USA. Indeed, there is growing evidence that peak viral titres in the upper airways of the lungs and culturable virus are similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.2,3
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext
According to WHO some 180,000 Health Care workers worldwide died of Covid, contacted in the course of their work. In the UK some 900, NZ zilch. You should be eternally grateful to the NZ government for their response to the pandemic, I am. You can reference these figures on Google when you next find evidence to back up your conspiracies.
Of or with?
of/from
…find evidence to back up your conspiracies.
What conspiracies? I provided a link to a letter in The Lancet which suggests that Covid vaccine mandates for healthworkers are unjustified because studies show that it makes no difference whether the worker is vaccinated or not with respect to transmission or viral load. The writer provides references.
You offer un- referenced figures and slurs.
The Franco-Peredes Lancet letter from which you quote is not scientific research: Rosemary McDonald. Rather it is a comment on a study by Singanayaman et al (2021): Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study. Who are not at all impressed with him in their response, given their pointed line about misinterpretation, in the paragraph immediately preceding their brief discussion of Franco-Peredes' comment:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00761-1/fulltext
Original study (a bit dated now because; delta, rather than; omicron, SARS-CoV-2 variant):
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
The Franco-Peredes Lancet letter from which you quote is not scientific research: Rosemary McDonald. Rather it is a comment …
Yes. I did state that it was a letter I was quoting from in my comment. In your rush to prove me a fool, did you not read what I wrote?
Can you provide scientific proof that the Pfizer Product prevents infection and transmission of the Omicron variants? Or at least reduces infection and transmission sufficiently to justify exclusion of much needed health and disability workers?
And I'd like to see those scientific papers that show that the mRNA injections are safe and there will be no long term adverse effects from continual boosting?
(Full disclosure here…I was the paid carer of my tetraplegic partner from April 2020 when this payment was allowed because of home care worker shortage and fear of infection with carers going into multiple homes. This payment of course was stopped when both my partner and I chose not to partake of the Pfizer product. Stopped because…paying for the work I do would somehow increase the risk of infection? Who knows.? The properly triple jabbed carer sent out to merely sit with my man so I could do the shopping came to our home a day before testing positive and after a weekend partying out of town. She was symptomatic. Despite having already had Omicron in March…I too also developed a sore throat etc for a few days. I'm not sure what country you are living in, but around these parts its generally accepted that vaccination status means nothing in terms of getting infected, and those already vulnerable are still sadly falling off their perches despite being multiply jabbed. )
USA. 67% vaccinated. Death rate 308/100k.
NZ 94% vaccinated. Death rate 31/100k.
It is even more striking if you compare highly vaccinated US states, with the Republican idiotvilles.
Sigh. Have you not been following what has been happening in the US regarding healthcare? As much as healthcare might exist for the millions who cannot afford it in that obscene jealously protected private profit driven system. Compare apple with apples.
Japan has been doing quite well.
But what truly sets it apart from many places, particularly Asian neighbors like China, is it’s managed to limit deaths without mandates and with few restrictions. The constitution prevents imposing lockdowns backed by police actions, meaning that even during a state of emergency the government puts the onus on businesses and individuals to change their behavior.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-17/how-japan-achieved-one-of-the-world-s-lowest-covid-death-rates
Considering our much lower population density (a factor with an airborne disease) Japan has done much better than NZ…without the stick waving and vicious mandates.
And treating the population like helpless, mewling infants.
Japans population doesn't need "stick waving" because they follow sensible precautions without it.
Coronavirus manners in Japan (japan-guide.com)
Japanese do not have to be told not to make other people sick.
Unlike a proportion of our population. Who need to be treated like "mewling" moaning infants. Because they are!
That is deeply flawed comparison that pretends vaccination rate is the only variable that is different between the the US and NZ. In fact despite their relatively low total vaccination rate the US death data is not very different from many other similar developed nations.
The story is far more complex than you are pretending. For example India has a very similar vaccination rate to the US at 66%, but a far lower total death rate according to the OurWorldinData link above.
That is only one piece of evidence, of many.
It is the anti vaccers and their apologists, like you who ignore complexity. Who cannot comprehend that sciencentific evidence is a jigsaw of many pieces. Not just one, or a few datapoints! or "aneqdotes".
And, of course you prefer you ignore the differences in neighbouring US States, where "other variables" have less effect than between NZ and the USA.
We all know why India has less deaths. If you do not have an excellent immune system in India, you won't survive to adulthood.
I point out that your simplistic comparison is flawed and show one example of how reality is much more complex – and you accuse me of ignoring complexity.
I don't know how you expect a constructive conversation on that basis.
psych nurse that is a shocking statistic. Really shocking
Hi, Rosemary
Thank you for the link. I think you are seeing things that don't actually exist in this letter to the Lancet.
Yes, there was no difference in viral load or nasopharangeal levels of Covid19, between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. I think you then imply that it's ok for doctors to be unvaccinated when seeing patients.
This is overly simplistic in that viral load doesn’t necessarily equate with transmissibility.
This is one letter in a medical journal versus a large body of evidence backing vaccination for medical professionals to protect their patients.
Sorry out running right now can't easily do a decent search for you in the rain, but lots of clear evidence out there.
Sorry out running right now can't easily do a decent search for you in the rain, but lots of clear evidence out there.
And there's a lot of real world evidence that despite complying with mandates multiply 'vaccinated' medical staff are being infected with Covid and becoming symptomatic. And needing time off work.
Somewhere there will be data showing the % of folks who became infected, were symptomatic, needed hospitalisation and sadly died of/from/with Covid before the Magic Jabs were deployed.
From memory, 80% of those infected in 2020 had no symptoms…. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/more-than-80percent-of-people-with-coronavirus-had-no-symptoms-uk-study.html
It would be very interesting to compare those data with the data collected recently.
A pity RNZ has now removed the comparisons between unvaccinated, fully vaccinated and boosted with respect to new cases, hospitalisations and deaths…because before they were removed…the graphics were showing sweet f/a difference.
But Anne, I understand the only Dr in Muripara who refused the vacinne has been allowed bcak to work. Maybe the powers that be thought it was better to have a Dr rather than no Dr at all.
You seem to understand very little because you didn’t do any research, did you?
Why don’t you Google it and let us know what you find? BTW, it is Murupara.
Ouch! Are you ok Incognito? Did I touch a nerve?
While I didn't provide a link for my brief comment about the Dr at Murupara, it is more or less as Rosemary said. Another reason to bring back unvaxed nurses is indeed if they have had covid in the last three months (likely if they are unvaxxed) as they will have natural immunity.
We are due to get a booster soon, which we will do, although I haven't taken the time to read how effective it is in providing immunity. I imagine it must provide some.
Maybe the powers that be thought it was better to have a Dr rather than no Dr at all.
At the time he was suspended, he had been restricted to carrying out consultations via Telehealth due to not being immunised against Covid-19.
Because of his recent recovery from Covid-19, he has received a three-month exemption from the Covid-19 order and is able to practise
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/news/murupara-doctor-back-practice