Open mike 12/12/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 12th, 2022 - 91 comments
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91 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2022 ”

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  1. bwaghorn 1
    12 December 2022 at 6:46 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300760166/graduate-teachers-hit-by-460-fee-before-starting-work-its-a-strain

    Hit your head on the table stupid?

    Why would you charge new teachers a fee for being teachers?

    • KJT 1.1
      12 December 2022 at 7:31 am

      Not to mention the costly "refresh" courses to resume Teaching after a break.

      Not the only proffesion with those costs though.

      Certificate re validation for my main qualification, if you haven't done two years in the last five, is over ten grand.

    • joe90 1.2
      12 December 2022 at 9:28 am

      Why would you charge new teachers a fee for being teachers

      I guess for the same reason new nurses, social workers, electrical workers, building practitioners, etc, etc, pay registration and annual practicing fees.

  2. Ad 2
    12 December 2022 at 7:03 am

    Peru's Castillo is a fool for trying a coup and Kirschner of Argentina is sentenced for heavy corruption.

    South America needs smarter politicians if the left is to last there.

    • RosieLee 3.1
      12 December 2022 at 7:49 am

      Since it was all moved off to profit making private enterprise instead of the Ministry of Works.

    • tc 3.2
      12 December 2022 at 7:54 am

      One has to ask wtf is going on across our roading network when this happens.

      Resurfacing is alot more frequent than it used to be because they don't last.

      Driving off the normal driving line as it's a broken surface chewing up tyres I see alot of.

      • dvT 3.2.1
        12 December 2022 at 8:03 am

        The motorists with damaged cars should sue for recompense from the roaders.

        That might introduce a financial incentive to get it right.

      • KJT 3.2.2
        12 December 2022 at 8:12 am

        Nothing to do with many more, and heavier trucks, as well as National freezing road maintenance funding, of course!

        • Tiger Mountain 3.2.2.1
          12 December 2022 at 8:22 am

          Good points. Public Private Partnerships like Trans Gully etc. are taxpayer money pits too. They can encourage low bids to get the job, bargain basement materials and little commitment to future upkeep.

          • Cricklewood 3.2.2.1.1
            12 December 2022 at 9:24 am

            Its an issue of specification, that and how funding /budgets operate same applies at a Local body and govt level.

            In short building to a proper spec leads to politically unpalatable headline costs to get these massive infrastructure projects off the ground. So specs get lowered, items are omitted so the figure is kept to a politically platable level. Then you end up with a bunch of variations along the way and more perversely surfacing work is done in full knowledge it will fail due to the spec. This happens when it becomes unpalatable to request more money for the project, (ie it looks bad for the ladder climbers who only care about delivery financials.) The fix up costs come of of the maintenance budgets which also perversely means that actual maintenance is neglected as the 10 year maintenance budget gets spent in the first couple of years fixing it.

            • Tiger Mountain 3.2.2.1.1.1
              12 December 2022 at 9:39 am

              Interesting. Was talking to a family friend whose daughter is a roading engineer, and worked on a project at Rockhampton in Aust. (and NZ PPPs) She issued her own specs from her research and knowledge for one piece of road which lives on, the two stretches on either side that adhered to management specifications have had wash outs.

        • tc 3.2.2.2
          12 December 2022 at 4:15 pm

          National by upping the tonnage and refusing to give the extra funding their RONS created did to roading what they did to health.

          Froze the funding yet population increased and hospitals magically expected to make it all work.

          Haters and wreckers strike again.

      • Cricklewood 3.2.3
        12 December 2022 at 9:06 am

        More trucks, bigger vehicles etc… sounds like the imported bitumen can be a bit iffy as well. Do wonder if that's played a part in the latest episode.

      • weka 3.2.4
        12 December 2022 at 10:02 am

        Climate change is a factor. eg increased number of days of rain means less days to get the road done in optimal conditions, which means either deteriorating roads or roads fixed at non-optimal times and fingers crossed it holds.

        • Cricklewood 3.2.4.1
          12 December 2022 at 10:47 am

          Where the risk sits with weather will depend on the contract can be differences about how delays to to weather are treated.

          If the risk sits with the contractor they'll do all they can to avoid running into late completion and liquidated damages as a result.

          Our current arrangements are pretty poor if a high quality result is desired. Thats all the way from design phase through to completion. Basically as it currently stands a fair amount is sacrificed from the quality of the work before it even physically starts.

  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    12 December 2022 at 8:14 am

    “Yass Massa” dept.

    RSE (Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme) abuses and systemic flaws exposed. Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner, Saunoamaali'i Karanina Sumeo wants an urgent review before the 2023 season.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018870831/rse-report-finds-major-gaps-in-system

    Who knew Pacific workers were subject to poor housing, bullying, intimidation, union busting, unlawful wage deductions and denial of cultural contact in their leisure time? Well the Amalgamated Workers Union and First Union did and have raised this as best they can in the face of workers being told if they join a union they “will not be back”.
    Be good to see a new case taken that really sticks it to these modern day plantation owners.

    • RosieLee 4.1
      12 December 2022 at 9:15 am

      Employers who wish to use RSE workers must be inspected and licensed. These current exploiters should be named and shamed. When these workers come into the country they should be interviewed and informed of the regulations, and their rights, in their own language at the point of entry. They should also be given a contact number/person in the event of concerns.

      • Belladonna 4.1.1
        12 December 2022 at 9:28 am

        And employers who breach the requirements seriously – should know up front that they will lose the right to use RSE workers for the next 5 years ; AND have to apply again from the beginning of the process again after that period in order to regain registration.

      • AB 4.1.2
        12 December 2022 at 9:33 am

        "Named and shamed" is insufficient. First offence should be a fine. Second offence, the enterprise is confiscated and ownership handed to the workers to do what they want with, e.g. sell and pocket the cash. Effectively, this would be a removal of the social licence to operate.

        • Nic the NZer 4.1.2.1
          12 December 2022 at 9:43 am

          Not sure that's going to work. Owning a bankrupt business which has significant employment penalty debts imposed by the courts, after the prior owner has finally cooperated enough to hand over the business (rather than hiding the assets), will likely not benefit these workers (in fact it could easily be a burden).

      • Craig H 4.1.3
        12 December 2022 at 11:38 am

        Effectively they are inspected and licensed by MBIE, it's just that the employer requirements are far too weak, and MBIE primarily focus on whether the treatment is legal rather than right or wrong.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.2
      12 December 2022 at 12:31 pm

      “One of the boys … was standing beside a table. The boss grabbed [him] by his ear and pulled him by his ear so that his head was pulled down on top of the table. The boss was swearing at him as he did so,” he said.

      “After that he called one of the other boys over to him, a boy named BB. He made BB lie down on the floor and [boss] then put his foot on top of BB back. He was swearing at him as he did this. He called BB a ‘f…… c….’. “

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300659862/stood-on-and-sworn-at-police-investigate-alleged-assault-on-migrant-workers

      Re Yas Massa : The boss..and the boys……….

      And….

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/129496019/blatant-exploitation-migrant-workers-packed-in-freezing-damp-rooms-for-150-a-week?rm=a.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.3
      12 December 2022 at 12:36 pm

      Only reason any of this exists is to allow businesses to pay far less (with worse conditions) than what locals would accept. Always hear that "NZers don't want the work" – what they don't want is work that requires you to live out of food banks and get paid f*ck all.

      I drove through Marlborough the other day – amazing to see all the new winery buildings and associated restaurants etc – multi-million dollar brand new buildings, while the slaves in orange work the fields for a pittance.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 4.4
      12 December 2022 at 1:18 pm

      This one describes the 'major gaps' a bit more accurately – "RSE worker treatment like 'slavery'"

      Given this crap – any government that had the slightest interest in workers, people and communities – would just shut the whole scheme down.

      a systemic pattern of human rights abuses.

      Those included unreasonable pay deductions, denial of personal and cultural freedoms, poor access to healthcare, and grossly inadequate housing.

      Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner Saunoamaali'i Karanina Sumeo told Morning Report the treatment of workers was distressing to witness.

      She described freezing and damp accommodation in Blenheim, with workers not allowed heaters.

      "We should not be taking advantage of [workers] and prospering from that through … what can be seen as modern day slavery."

  5. Tiger Mountain 5
    12 December 2022 at 9:44 am

    Good suggestions from RosieLee, Belladonna & AB.

  6. Descendant Of Smith 6
    12 December 2022 at 9:47 am

    The costs of bringing them to NZ should be put on the employer for a start. The employer should pay their air fares for instance and not be able to deduct these costs off their wages.

    Fining is a better course of action as those that lose their RSE will just "share" the workers with someone who hasn't. The combined value of deductions made by employers from workers salaries should be made public so the program if fully understood by the public. How much of the wages is garnered back by employers and how much does this vary between employers? Much more transparency is needed as a matter of course not a matter of investigation.

    I note with the slavery case over in Hawkes Bay the employers paying cash to him were never named. The public should know.

  8. Stephen D 8
    12 December 2022 at 11:22 am

    Another take on the oil price cap to try and limit Putin’s war effort.

    ”We need thought-through policy not knee-jerk reactions based on the emotional need to be seen to be doing “something.” We need to be clear in our analysis of how much Putin will feel energy sanctions at all. Realistically, hydrocarbon exports account for only around 20 percent of Russia’s GDP and even less when measured in terms of Purchasing Power Parity. But when we look at Russia’s federal budget, from which the money for the war is being drawn, the number is more like 50 percent. “

    That is, out of every dollar paid for oil, gas or coal, 50 cents is turned into the bombs and bullets killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians, destroying Ukrainian cities, and giving rise to Europe’s latest refugee crisis.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/mikhail-khodorkovsky-target-vladimir-putin-oil-gas-price-cap-weapon-ukraine-russia-war/

    He makes a good case for imposing duties, rather than price caps.

    • Sabine 8.1
      12 December 2022 at 11:29 am

      How dare the Russian not capitulate to Nato and the US. Never mind that really the issue is mainly the dumb arse sanctions on Russia that harmed everyone but the russians.

      • Psycho Milt 8.1.1
        12 December 2022 at 1:20 pm

        The sanctions do seem a bit underwhelming. Western countries should have gone with full military support for Ukraine from the start.

        • Sabine 8.1.1.1
          12 December 2022 at 2:55 pm

          Are you really declaring total war on Russia? You might want to think that over again.

          As it is, like many other war zones this too will last a long time, make many people rich beyond their believe, will kill untold young ones of all sides and the volunteers from overseas and only when those that have the power to stop these things have decided that enough blood has drenched the soil will it be stopped.

          Chances are it will take many many years. Some grifts are just too good to stop.

          • Stephen D 8.1.1.1.1
            12 December 2022 at 4:47 pm

            So what’s your alternative, Sabine? Capitulation?

            Seems to me the best answer, if Ukraine is not “allowed” to attack Russian sites, is to arm them to the teeth to drive Russia back to pre 2014 borders.

            • Sabine 8.1.1.1.1.1
              15 December 2022 at 9:17 am

              Non of that matters anymore.

              To total war young men will be marched because old men have got nothing else to do, and maybe they have some money to make. I mean if i were a US weapons manufacture right now i be creaming every pair or panties -lace of whities depending on self ID – that i were to own. I mean, every arm chair keyboard warrior screams rooo rahh, round up the young penis haver, the ex penis haver and send them into the grinder. And while we are at it, lets poison with depleted uranium a huge area of land on which grains used to be grown. Cause clearly humans are dumb.

              And yeah, like Iraq, Russia did not threaten anyone. But they are defending their own interests. But then, we shall not mention the fact that the Ukrainians killed their own people for years on end. We don't care about that. How dare people whom the west not support have their own ideas of self fulfilment. What a ludicrous idea, really.

              Ruski bad. Yankee and Yankee bitch good. lol . Have some popcorn and some coolaid with that plate of liquid shite dinner.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014%E2%80%932022)

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

              Its all quite far gone, but then i don't expect people to remember yesterday or the day before as it might conflict with what ever bullshit they are told to believe today.

              And just as a reminder, the only nation to have used nuclear weapons on civilian population centres is the US. USA USA USA!!!!!! chant little servant chant, all the way to the grave. ditto for several hundreds of military bases that loiter the world over that the US has installed in order to protects "its" interests in other countries.

              so go, send yourself to war, you support it, send your penis having sons your vagina having sons, send them in the meatgrinder of a war you are all so happy to support from the comfort of your home.

              First thing i would do is call for discussion on how to end this. Now. Because in the end, there will be no winner. There will only be death and destruction.

              So let me ask you in good german, because its always better in good german.

              Wollt ihr den totalen krieg? And if you do, then sign up for the war effort. I hear they take anyone who shows up. The meatgrinder needs its fill.

              • RedLogix …
                15 December 2022 at 9:30 am

                Yes – every sane person wants this war to end without annihilation. That means a negotiated settlement.

                What terms do you have in mind for this settlement?

                • Sabine …
                  15 December 2022 at 6:14 pm

                  at this stage?

                  Everyone back into their corner, neutrality for Ukraine, Donbas region to be 'independent' and russia back into international agreements re nuclear de-escaltion together with the US. – and fwiw, the US will not be helpful at all and thus it will not happen.

                  the US want that proxy war with Russia, they need it, it makes them oodles of money, keeps their own population occupied, fucks over Europe to no end and for a very long time, blablablabla….who would have thought that Biden is such a fuckwit.

                  But worst to me are those that really pretend that the years leading up to the Russian invasion did not happen, and that one day Putin woke up, decided he was bored and hey lets invade Ukraine. But i guess its easier to follow blindly and without thinking then to actually ask oneself what is the larger purpose of these happenings.

                  Its like the watched Iraq and have learned absolutly nothing.

  9. Incognito 9
    12 December 2022 at 12:43 pm

    The beaches were deemed unsafe to swim at after recent heavy rain caused sewage to leak into the water.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/480561/auckland-beach-warnings-gradually-being-lifted-safeswim

    All is well with the water well.

    • tc 9.1
      12 December 2022 at 4:37 pm

      Does anyone know their obligation to notify on this matter?

      Waikato DC didn't appear to have anything on their actual site when their FB page was warning raglan locals to stay out of the harbour.

      Since when did social media become public notification.

  10. Incognito 10
    12 December 2022 at 12:47 pm

    Contamination of drinking water by stealthy chemicals has set back Auckland's efforts to cope with drought and growing demands on water.

    …

    It had an eye on Three Waters.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/480552/watercare-looking-to-take-more-from-waikato-river-change-drought-levels-due-to-pfas

    The other eye is probably on the Mayor.

  11. bwaghorn 11
    12 December 2022 at 12:50 pm

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/130734430/auckland-mayor-wants-city-port-gone-by-2039

    Down town is about to change says Mr Brown.

    I smell a stadium, (not a bad idea imho)

  12. mpledger 12
    12 December 2022 at 2:46 pm

    On stuff it reports that the Chief Ombudsman has found that government officials did not adequately take into account the “very real impact” the MIQ allocation system would have on people’s lives.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130733059/government-officials-acted-unreasonably-over-miq-advice–ombudsman

    Apparently, government officials should have taken into account people's reasons for traveling. Does he have any idea how much time that would have taken to read, check and verify all the documentation? And then imagine having to rank different people's reasons? Does visiting Jane for her first birthday beat out visiting Jack for his 90th?

    That system would have rewarded the best liars and the people with the most social capital.

    They could have improved it by letting people who applied before without success go in the draw according to the number of times they had applied but other than that random allocation for non-emergency situations was by far the fairest way.

    • Craig H 12.1
      12 December 2022 at 4:40 pm

      I think there could have been a better effort made to identify legitimately urgent travel which would have improved the margins a bit. However, you're absolutely right that any attempt at an application ranking system would have struggled with large application numbers no matter how granular it attempted to be, and would have had anomalous outcomes anyway because of edge cases not fitting neatly.

    • bwaghorn 12.2
      12 December 2022 at 6:00 pm

      My God it's so obvious the government should have used hindsight in advance of their pandemic response so they could please everybody.

    • Belladonna 12.3
      12 December 2022 at 7:33 pm

      Well, they could certainly have excluded people who left NZ after the borders were closed.
      You can leave, but won’t be eligible for an MIQ space, until all the backlist have been accommodated (i.e. never), or until the borders open back up again.

    • Belladonna 12.4
      12 December 2022 at 7:44 pm

      My understanding is that many people found the 'lottery' aspect of it very difficult – having to repeatedly enter the 'lobby' in the hope of being lucky this time.

      A simple system of registering, and having your name/s (for families) added to the end of the list – and then waiting until your turn came, would have been much easier to apply and to deal with.

      And matching up list places with air-tickets (so many people managed to get a 'lottery' MIQ space, but were unable to match with an airline ticket which would get them there on the right day.

      e.g. Air NZ flight 123 departing from London on 21st May, has 92 seats. The first 92 people on the list with the 'departure point' of London – get preference. If any dip out, then you continue down the list.

      And, doing all this at least a month in advance, so people could get their intermediate travel ducks in a row (e.g. you have to get from Amsterdam to London to depart on the May 21st flight – and need to sort that travel)

      Controlling the Air NZ fares (given that Govt had already stepped in to keep the airline running) – would have been a good move. As would requiring MIQ payment in advance along with the airfare (the retrospective system of payment appears to have been a disaster)

  13. aj 13
    12 December 2022 at 6:38 pm

    Yes the Chief Ombudsman has the luxury of being critical yet not having to present an alternative framework that would have outcomes that didn't disadvantage anyone in that same situation. Meaningless.

  14. Sabine 14
    15 December 2022 at 9:51 am

    Food is going to be very very expensive this winter as currently nothing grows but rather drowns.

    Well i guess we can import it from somewhere else, after all no one needs farmers, food comes from supermarkets. Right?

  15. Sabine 15
    15 December 2022 at 11:06 am

    Honestly, at this stage are we letting this happen on purpose or are we just deviantly refusing to do the things that need doint?

    https://twitter.com/CDCgov_parody/status/1602470966713585666

      • Sabine 15.1.1
        15 December 2022 at 6:17 pm

        Yes, we are the dumbest species. Every other species has a sense of self preservation, humans? Nah, they really believe that we have 'human rights' and that something somewhere someone will come and safe their asses.

        The problems with many humans however is that they had a lot of education, oodles of educational debt, and now they think they are learned. Idiots.

        • Robert Guyton 15.1.1.1
          15 December 2022 at 6:25 pm

          Humans are "idiots"?

          Idiocy is the catalyst for innovation.

          All praise the Fool!

          There are no foolish condors, hummingbirds, turtles or ants.

          The first of the Tarot might in fact be the last 🙂

          • Sabine 15.1.1.1.1
            15 December 2022 at 6:52 pm

            It is always the fools with thoughts of grandeur and need for a legacy that start the big shit. And suddenly out of know here there is death and it is eating our young.

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