More recently known as Ed, and probably even more recently (and briefly) known as Jinx. Definitely not witty, in fact completely devoid of any detectable humour whatsoever.
Pseudo-pseudo majorly concentrated on funnelling the USA and world disasters to us. I wondered why he seemed stuck in a rut, but after WtB’s count of its headline groupings, if he looked at the Herlad that would have been predictable.
Just one word of amelioration about the Herald – it does produce some good factual stuff; we aren’t seeing it become the National Enquirer yet.
Hmmmm…in these times, where even expressing an interest into thoroughly investigating all aspects of what are now considered conventional practices (be it vaccination, fluoridation of public water supplies, widespread 1080 use, widespread agrichemical use etc) is going to attract a shit tonne of ‘strident’ pro-ers tearing one to bits and accusing the ‘antis’ of being the cause of all the worlds problems…is it any reason your so called ‘anti – vaxxers’ are keeping a low profile?
Judging by the comments sections of msm articles about all of the above issues…it is the ‘pro’ lobby dishing out the bulk of the shit in a ‘strident’ manner
So. Being a person who was raised to make my own inquiries I’ve gone to the source, so to speak, and downloaded the current Immunisation Handbook from the that august institution the Ministry of Health.
The Disclaimer, though, kinda made my eyebrows rise….
“Disclaimer
This publication, which has been prepared for, and is published by, the Ministry of Health, is for the assistance of those involved in providing immunisation services in New Zealand.
While the information and advice included in this publication are believed to be correct, no liability is accepted for any incorrect statement or advice.
No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Those sort of publications always have that sort of warning.
There are people who simply cannot be given immunizations. There is apparently at least one child in this category at the Christchurch school. Quite why that is so I don’t know.
Anybody reading this publication you have is merely being told to consider the individual health situation of the person concerned before going ahead with the injection.
“No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?”
Yes absolutely, this is standard risk management by the MoH, no different from the provision of any medication or medical procedure to a patient. Benefits must out weigh risks…do no harm etc etc
yes. The harm from not immunizing only eventuate if they loudly declare how they are justified they are not to, and enough of the herd follow their lead. It’s like they want to kill lots of people and get a egotistical high of the higher ground.
The Min of Health is just protecting itself from possible expensive legal claims that people who have endless negative cautions, and a positive desire for litigation, are adding to the maelstrom of matters to fear and defend oneself from.
I read some of Linus Pauling’s work on Vitamin C, and remember an article about a vaccination programme in Australia on aboriginal children.
A doctor working with the children, advocated for the administration of Vitamin C before any of the children were vaccinated. He theorised that their diet did not provide their immune system with the ability to respond to the vaccinations as expected. Ridiculed for this procedure, when he left his post the fatality rate for immunised children rose as high as 50% in the Northern Territories. And this was in the 70’s.
There is a long and terrible history of forced medication or medical intervention. Measles seems to be a very low bar to call for compulsory vaccination.
Many people who have had iatrogenic experiences, don’t have the blind faith in medical institutions and decision making that is required for such clear non-questioning compliance.
Wouldn’t you say that many on this site are authoritarian in their views with regards to the action required to address climate change? And rightly so. Evidence suggests action is required on climate change.
When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe, then we have a right to be “authoritarian” in those views, and we must always call out those who choose to ignore the evidence. Vaccinate your kids, or stay out of our schools. The exception obviously being those who cannot vaccinate based on medical professional opinion – which is exactly why the rest of us need to vaccinate – to keep those who cannot vaccinate, safe!
“When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe,..”
Possibly the most recent evidence that that statement is false…
” In spite of protecting against the diseases, DTP-vaccinated children had fivefold higher mortality than children who didn’t receive the vaccine.
We have repeated this finding many times. Protection against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis seems to come at a very high price: increased risk of dying from other infections, such as respiratory infections, particularly for females. Translated into absolute numbers, the results indicate that the use of DTP vaccine in sub-Saharan Africa may cost tens of thousands of female lives every year. ”
The researcher is not saying all vaccines are bad and is not saying that all non live vaccines should be banned. She IS saying there is a very, very real problem with the order in which vaccines are given. She IS saying (well, implying) that because the whole discussion around vaccinations has become so polarised, these vital research findings are very likely to be lost in a(nother) shitstorm of extremist rage.
But. Whatever. I never cease to be awestruck at the absolute, blind commitment of some on these pages to a particular point of view, regardless of any information that might come their way that ordinarily would make a person have a further wee think.
Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.
“Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.’
Case proven. How about, when you dive into an ongoing conversation, you actually backtrack and actually check out the links?
Or, I can just dish it up to you again….because information is power and all that…..
How many deaths have been avoided over the last few decades due to the vaccines? I would hazard a guess that this far outweighs the risks. It is the risks that you seem so fixated on, even if the evidence suggests the benefit to society outweighs these risks. You are looking for a perfect solution to eradicating these illnesses – I’m sorry, but there will never be one. But to expose the vast majority of the population to these illnesses based on a low level of risk from vaccination would be absurd. I’ll stop arguing at this point – as pro-plague people are extremely painful to argue with.
I would consider myself very concerned about climate change, and an advocate for effective changes, information sharing and planned transition. My personal individual choices reflect that as well as my attendance at a couple of select committee hearings and protests, and my commitment to submitting to government when possible.
Yet, I believe an authoritarian approach is one that treats people like children and dismisses any questions or concerns. Ultimately, it creates division and builds resistance to change. It may be the choice of the frustrated – and satisfy in the short term – but in the long term it takes greater energy to sustain and often results in significant pushback.
Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.
There’s an Aussie woman on her way to NZ to spread her brand of anti-vaxxer poison. She should be banned from entering the country on the grounds she represents a danger to the community at large. In this case I strongly suspect she’s a con artist making a lot of money out of the anti-vaccine campaign.
Perhaps we could follow the example of the Italian Government.
From an Economist daily newsletter I get.
“Italian children can now be turned away from school unless there is proof they have been properly vaccinated. Parents of unvaccinated children aged between six and 16 can also be fined up to €500 ($565). Lorenzin law, introduced following a rise in measles cases, requires immunisation against a number of illnesses including chickenpox, polio, measles, mumps and rubella.”
From what level of understanding would you support such a law, Anne?
That you endorse hate speech views such as garners on this subject signals your understanding of vaccine science is literally zero…
If you actually cared about children, you might take the time to spend learning and undstanding more about the subject…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
Or are you comfortable to disregard the body of evidence?
If you would like a discussion, and some links, I can share you many (to peer reviewed research)…
Do it for the children, Anne…you say you care about them…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
If I read you correctly then that is one of the most obnoxious pieces of crap I have ever encountered on the subject. It serves to highlight the necessity for a law to prevent that kind of hair-brained garbage from being advocated in public places.
And Nigel Latta expressed the same views as mine on Seven Sharp tonight except in a rather more diplomatic fashion. (Not online yet)
Btw, I was professionally trained in both the physical and psychological health and well being of children.
Precis….live vaccines good and can have health benefits beyond the target disease. Dead vaccines….not so good…in fact bad in far too many cases…especially for girls.
Very simple precis, and I sincerely hope it gets your attention.
Live vaccines priming the immune system. Absolutely no surprise there though it is a wow moment for me that the coverage is more comprehensive than the targeted disease. And this was found for multiple live vaccines. Wow.
I kinda see why doctors prefer the dead vaccine and why mothers do not. But patient harm in any form needs to be put under serious scrutiny. Is there any test for a pre-condition of immuno-compromised people?
I geek out on tweaking plant immunity with various microbes and fungi, viruses are over my pay grade – we did have a relatively
comprehensive look at HIV in postgrad. Damn thing evolves…
Our tutor was one of the ones that died on flight MH17. Damn shame that was.
About a century ago there was a woman helping Australian Aborigines at a time when polio was being vaccinated agai
Sister Kenny devised a way of treating polio victims that had better outcomes than previously. One of her ideas was that the vaccine shouldn’t be given to someone at a time when they had a cold, or their health was compromised. I think that would fit in with your idea of having a pre-condition that would affect immune systems.
She also did a lot of work keeping their limbs moving so that they didn’t end up as permanently disabled.
And yet you’ve offered zero, nothing to counter the comment I made…but go right ahead…you believe it’s “obnoxious crap and hairbrained garbage”… you must be able to back it up…
Surely if you’re supporting punitive laws, endorsing violent hate speech , you must have legitimate counters to my comment, Anne….you must have a level of understanding of the core issues…the research…the harm…the damaged and dead…
Surely, Anne…you must have…or how can you offer written support of such laws coming to Nz…Endorse censorship…you must have knowlegde and understanding to counter…
I’m offering you the opportunity for an open discussion…only you on this subject Anne…because you supported the hate speech I’m calling out…
I also believe you are a higher calibre of commentator on balance, here in comparison to others engaged in this discussion…
With respect…if your training was from your understood generation (based on your comments)…then it will be terribly outdated and in need of a refresh…
So go right ahead, Anne…provide substance of your position to endorse hate speech against children and parents…censorship and punitive legislations…
Here we go… Nigel Latta talking about vaccines on Seven Sharp. Scroll past the weather and it’s the first item. Listen to Hillary and Jeremy after the end of the interview following the brief ASB ad. They make a couple of pertinent points couched in humour:
Nigel Latta. He’s a bit akin to a much loved teddy bear isn’t he? Hauled out, dusted off and cuddled so we can all feel comforted and secure. I had no idea he was an expert on immunology and vaccination science.
On second thoughts Anne…DON’T WATCH/READ WHAT DR BENN HAS TO SAY.
Fair enough Anne. That is the level of propaganda which you’re amenable to…that your level of understanding is derived from…
You’re not alone in being fooled…there are too many ‘fools’ …on either side of the discussion…including the paid ones in the link you posted…
You see Anne, it is not a binary discussion…despite your preferred propaganda channels imploring you to believe…it is a deeply nuanced, complicated set of (actual science) , not vaccine science and its pseudoscience relative, psychology…components…deeply personal…
You, and each and every individual…paid or unpaid who share…or pretend to share the same views…are already relegated to the sidelines of the discussion…while the minority goes about what the minorities through history…always go about doing…
That you so callously disregard the global scientific community’s body of archived research, performed and disseminated to those adults and parents who take full responsibility for their offspring, by spending time and energy learning and understanding that research…
Says that you Anne, have chosen…at this point in your life…not to grow…not to further your knowledge…not to gain understanding as to why it is you…and the ‘authorities’ you refer…who will continue to lose ground…who will continue to lack understanding about why…the vaccine science industry…has lost its position…
And you will continue to blame those who do know…who did the research…the science…who suffered the damage and loss…who shared the actual science with other adults from all professional and non professional backgrounds…to decide for themselves, the best choices to make for their children…
While yourself…and all those whose views you relate to…will continue to belittle and berate those…who took the time to grow and expand themselves…for the good of others…
And you and your ilk…will believe it is ‘others’…who are stupid…who are gullible…who are uneducated absorbers of fake news on the internet….
But that, Anne…is already the projections of those who have been sidelined…because real science…is never settled…
It had already moved on from what you ‘believed’ it to be…decades ago…and you’re not interested in updating yourself…
Thanks One Two. It’s reassuring to know that you’ve done all the research because you care so much… and still come up with the wrong outcomes.
Vaccines, amongst other public health methods, have lifted health quality outcomes like being free from communicable diseases and living longer to heights almost unimaginable 100 years ago.
But of course some stupid fuckwits on the internet know better than 97% of health professionals because they’ve done some reading. This is the magic number of scientists that confirm global warming is correct. So how can the same proportion of doctors be so wildly incorrect in your opinion?
Personally I don’t want my kids going to schools with other parents children who are trying to be 3rd world worriers. Vaccines should be legally mandated or no entry into public schools.
The anti-vaccination movement is, by and large, a first world thing.
Take the polio vaccine, afaik, the oral polio vaccine, which has its risks. And is basically something given in (sometimes literal) shitholes where the disease is rampant anyway.
Vaccines are by definition of “reality” not 100% risk free: You can be allergic and only find out when you go into a seizure. It’s just that those situations are rare.
As in, between 1:1.000.000-2.000.000.
The risks of dying to something like measles, is even less with proper healthcare something like 1:1000, are you young, are you not that strong, you get pneumonia, and sometimes that’s it right there. It happens. In less priviliged societies? It kills.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
As long as the people involved clearly understand the risks of vaccines and why it’s so important to society to be able to control communicable disease down to manageable levels then I don’t see any reason why people can’t live and let live.
Only a single comment to respond with…covers the largest flaw in your core of your thinking…
* vaccinated communities have been proven to spread the same diseases (and mutated versions of) which are supposedly ‘vaccine preventable’ by injecting the vaccines(s) which manufactures, lawmakers and doctors, recommend,advise/force people to inject…to prevent from catching the [virus]…
Get better informed…no excuses for that level of missing data…
I’ll not be responding to you further on this subject…
I do not like you using the words ‘hate’ speech One Two. It seems to me that they are being thrown around far too frequently.
Hate speech encourages KKK to go and hang African Americans, and to burn down their churches.
It shouldn’t be used about people who have a different point of view and argue strongly for it. Biased they are, foolish and bigoted perhaps, but hate is another bloody four letter word like rape. There seems little respect for language and meaning when such words are used freely.
One Two: most of us accept that we live in an imperfect world where there are very few perfect solutions. Most of the time we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils, and I think this is one of them.
If all the anti-vax arguments are true, so be it – vaccination is an evil.
But I for one would much rather have had the risky vaccinations I have had, than suffer from just one of the nasty diseases I have been protected against.
For the vast majority of people the nasty diseases have a far more devastating effect than the vaccinations do , and for those who suffer from vaccinations, maybe we have to wait for medical science to help them as well..
Lesser of two evils.
If vaccinations had ever looked like being worse than the disease avoided, a huge majority would have become anti-vax.
Are you now going to tell me I am an innocent victim of propaganda?
In Vino, your comment indicates you’re ok with people making choices with regards to bodily autonomy, and forced medication…that position alone, is a respectable one to hold…
There are many points in your comment which I could address and which I could show are logically incorrect…but they are your perspective and your decisions to take for yourself…
What I would suggest is that no-one who involves themselves in having an opinion on vaccines, should allow themselves or others, the disservice of complacancy , laziness or ignorance by believing what they are told…or believing what they ‘know’…
Western medicine (the corporate consensus variety) has seemingly no interest in accepting why it might be an evolutionary necessity for humans to get sick and self heal, thus gaining genuine full cell immunity through a powered up immune system…it is what our bodies have been doing since day one…our immune systems are amazing just as they are…
Pure hubris to think that short circuiting and tricking the immune system with chemicals is not leading to human beings becoming sicker, with more illness and diseases in younger cohorts than modern medicine provides any answer for other than…more drugs/vaccines and toxic allopathic protocols…
Our spieces has evolved symbiotically over [forever number] of years with the very microbes we believe we have somehow mastered, and can control…and should eradicate from the environment…they can’t be…not by human beings…
To your final question…innocent victim…no not at all…just someone whose comment also indicates they need to invest more time into learning about the flaws in vaccine science…which actual science has now moved to unreservedly, exposing…
So much research and scholarly material available which could assist with helping people to make more well informed decisions for their own well being, and that of their loves ones…
One Two
I have kept an open mind as to your comments and the veracity of the beliefs, information, references etc. But the longer they are and the more you use emotional language, the more wary I become of your statements.
For once Sam comes up with something informative. And it is a serious matter which he takes through giving freedom to anti-vaxers with a waiver of treatment for their children. And a case to answer of involuntary manslaughter when they cause deaths.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
Then he makes the point about plagues that they cause 100% deaths. Which may not apply to measles, instead there will be numerous cases of people being debilitated badly, blind etc.
Measles infections can harm the front or back of the eye, possibly causing vision loss or blindness. Though measles is just re-emerging as a threat in developed countries, the disease has long been a leading cause of childhood blindness worldwide.Mar 5, 2015
(Some American Academy that blacks out everything over cookies)
One in ten will get ear infections and some hearing loss also.
In her book about her travels in early New Zealand colonial times, Florence Harsant travelled in remote areas where Maori had been struck down by measles. She was horrified to find whole households laid low, parents unable to care for children, and no-one in the village with medicines and no help from authorities.
She had to plan to escape herself from a travel limitation set up by either Maori or surrounding colonists, and advised health authorities herself.
As Sam says, this is a first world thing, with emotional people who haven’t been taught decision making, analysing risk, ratios and percentages and means and averages etc. And in life there is risk, and that we are surrounded by unsterile air, and constantly ignoring advice to wash hands after going to the toilet etc. – noticed in public places.
There are irresponsible people, there are ones who despise western medicine, there are others who are fatalists. One woman I knew of was a Pacific Islander of determined decisions, and she would not allow her teenager to use asthma aids, such as an inhaler. When her son died from an asthma sttack, the authorities did not know what to do for the best. I don’t know whether she was even charged with neglect. Some parents can not be reasoned with. Public health is set up to assist us, and has, but they must be watchful to keep up quality. Whatever they do, though there will be criticism – too early, too late, wrong type, over-spent on the wrong virus line.
Gw..and with respect…you’re clearly underinformed on this subject…take responsibility for your weariness…do not transfer your shortcomings onto my commentary…
Others have tried a similar tactic in the 5G discussion…it is a tactic of the disingenuous …
I addressed the logical failings in the core premise of Sams proposal…
Why are you ignoring my response to Sam, regarding known and proven vaccine failure rates?
That is…the spread of the very disease individuls were vaccinated against catching..
Messaging with people who do even tale the time to invest in learning vaccine 101 is not productive…
No emotions Gw…you’ve read me incorrectly…and you’ve written a novel…
Edit. You should stop using derogatory terms…I believe you are above such use of anti-v***
Alwyn for once I entirely agree with your suggestion. Producing proof of vaccination is a good idea which would save lives and prevent illness. I had polio, measles 2 kinds, mumps and chickenpox. There is no advantage having these diseases and every advantage not to.
Join the club. So did I.
Amazing that any of us made it to adulthood isn’t it?
I cannot understand anyone who refuses, or is simply to lazy, to vaccinate their children.
Some still believe that disgraced English doctor with his b*s about a connection between the MMR vaccination and Autism. Now there is a dreadful example of a human being.
One of the things the pro-disease crowd sometimes go on about is Big Pharma make money from vaccines so that inherently makes them suspicious.
Yet that fucking fraud Wakefield was busily patenting his single disease vaccines in order to line his pockets and consulting on lawsuits in order to line his pockets all the while he was fabricating his data that happened to support those activities. But somehow, he’s a hero to the pro-diseasers?
Wakefield. Yes now I remember the name. When I read about his activities at the time he was kicked out of the profession I got so mad at his behaviour I never wanted to read anything more about him, EVER.
When I wrote the comment here I couldn’t recall his name but I refused to google the story because it would simply make me so mad about that vile person again. So rather than do so about all I could think of to say was ” that disgraced English doctor”.
The number of kids who must have suffered so he could attempt to line his pockets.
Whooping cough was best…after the awful coughing the rest of 6 weeks off school to ride bikes up and down SH1 (wartime and almost no traffic. Seriously, they were all dangerous. Think the first immunisations were for diphtheria early 1940’s, done at school.
And to think Heather, our Mum’s put us into contact with other children who had contracted these diseases because it was believed we were better off catching them as children. That is, with the exception of polio and whooping cough.
I remember the school shutdown for some six to eight weeks during the polio epidemic of the early 1950s. As an extra precaution we weren’t supposed to play with one another, so we spent all day whizzing past each other on our scooters. Yeah… there were some bruised and bleeding knees came out of that one. 🙂
The schools closed in 1947 when I caught polio in the last great epidemic, and again in 1953 when June Opie got polio from the failed vaccine, Salk? and spent the rest of her life in an iron lung.
The three drops on the tongue polio vaccine was available in my first year of teaching in 1962.
“Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.”
Well that’s part of the problem right there, and I referred to this at 2.1.2 .
I struggle with the need to fluoridate all drinking water. To me it makes no sense when tooth decay is not caused by lack of fluoride.
Yes I do agree our climate is changing, the sun is more intense than 20 or even 10 years ago, and that we definitely need to urgently seek and implement ways to try and mitigate the effects. (Although I fear rampant capitalism will see our ultimate doom as a species.)
I exercised discretion when it came to my children’s immuisations, which is not to say I didn’t have them vaccinated. As I mentioned a few days ago….MMR was very new and there were anecdotal cases of serious adverse events (NOT autism…!!!) which made a few folk understandably nervous. Very frustrating that with the release of MMR the old single measles jab became unavailable…even if we were willing to pay. When the Hep B vaccine was being given to newborns there were concerns from some groups. I asked a GP if my 18 month old needed the jab, and was told there was no way he was going to catch Hep B…he wasn’t in the at- risk group. So why the mass vaccination program if the disease is a risk for only specific sections of the population?
I’ve have tried (and failed) to find the official register of significant averse effects from vaccinations…..where is it?
Calling people ‘nutbars’ and ‘murderers’ for vaccine hesitancy is merely going to widen the divide.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
“It is a very small percentage of the New Zealand population.
“We need to understand it and respond to it, and definitely put more resources and thinking into it, but it is a very small part of why we are not getting high immunisation coverage rates.”
Dr Turner said there were other problems with delivering immunisations, beyond what she called vaccine hesitancy, and New Zealand would be better off dealing with those.”
Now it would be manifestly unreasonable to expect a shock jock media personality to actually take a calming breath or two and actually do some proper research…or even check with the head honcho from IMAC before launching into their lynch mob rousing speech…but I’d expect most of the commentators here to at least keep a tiny portion of their minds ajar.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
I would have agreed with you say… 20 years ago but not any more.
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers. Respect and open conversations do not work with many of these people. Their anti-ness has become ideological to the point of religious fervour. To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.
It is time for them to be called out for what they are – fools. Fools who are putting their children’s – and other people’s children’s – health and a viable future in serious jeopardy.
“To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.”
Is it possible for you to provide a link or two as examples of this? I am seriously interested.
And again….according to the IMAC chief, so called ‘anti-vaxxers’ are a very small part of why we are not getting high rates of immunisation coverage.
So…it may very well be the the anti- vax brigade are as angry/shouty/hate- speechy as the pro- vax lynch mob….but they are not having the effect on immunisation rates you seem to think they are.
Well. One Two…thanks for just about ruining our mince and noodle dinner.
What a powerful piece of work, and for those who can spare the time the Ted Talk is totally engrossing.
This should be turning the whole vaccine debate inside out…but as the Doctor Benn says…the whole issue has become so polarised that each side will try and use the findings to give credibility to their stubbornly held point of view. And the very, very real potential benefits of accepting the findings and changing the way we vaccinate will be lost.
No worries, Rosemary…It was really for people such as yourself…it’s not my role to change anyone’s views…that’s an individual choice to expand…
I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…
Some of the comment links are also probable triggers for folks here…
For the time being I’ll limit any linking, as per my comments a few days ago…I’m a long way over this discussion…except to call out those who publish and/or endorse violent hate speech…
The progapanda levels are a signal the establishment has completely lost the decades long control, and they know it…
Real science , research, knowledge and thinking has moved on…people are no longer kept in the dark (unless they willingly choose to be)…and in a few years from now…it will all be over…
Have a good evening…hope you recoverd the meal alright…
‘I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…”
I had to check with a scientist the credibility of The Conversation (because I have trust issues ) and was assured that it was ‘… usually OK…much better than the Guardian’.
The comments section I’m going to read right now.
Passionate commitment to one’s point of view/beliefs/ideology is all very well if tempered with an open mind and respect for the commitment of the opposition…blind adherence and all that.
How many more deaths before we can be brave enough to put our dogmatism aside?
On the subject of vaccination , TC is about as low level as it gets. If you have time…brave some of the other articles over the years…it’s likely that you will pick up the themes and discourse TC publishes…
Often comment sections would mirror the majority on todays thread, here, and then the comments gets closed off…as soon as a counter or two is visible…it is a consistent form of censorship…perhaps due to lack of mods available…but it is an observable occurrence…
I would say that spending prescious time reading anti-scientific and outdated articles about research which only represents established industry position…can be unhealthy…but you’re definitely up to it should you choose to…there is years worth of it on TC…
The piece I linked to, I’ve had to read multiple times in appreciation of the author and her professional yet honest demeanour within the article, as well as her responses in the comments section…gold nuggets can be found…
I’ve been reading through the linked material in comments as some of the linked material and commentary was new for me…I will also watch the ted talk…perhaps TC should leave comments sections open on this subject…
To your question. Many, many magnitudes more than the total global deaths from measles in developed nations…over the past 50 years…
Thanks for the read. AFAIK the live polio vaccine, which was on the immunisation schedule many years ago was changed to the dead polio vaccine after a couple of incidents where mothers got the disease after immunising their children.
I had read many years ago about the benefits of live vaccines, but can’t remember where. Also, about the difference in immunity robustness from people who had the vaccine compared to those who had recovered from the disease. The immune system was much stronger, and the article/paper was discussing the possibility of the body responding with changes to the respiratory system, or mucous membranes, that is not achieved with vaccinations. Sorry, I can’t remember more, it was a while ago.
Salk was to have said the live polio vaccine was responsible for +/- 100% of polio…it was replaced but the damage was done…
The Cutter Incident
With regards to live vaccines and the article in particular…there is also large archives of research of contraindictions resulting from live vaccines, the manufaturing, storage and transport problems including the adjuvants required (similar to attenuated vaccines) which are also problematic…
I linked the article as it is one of the most balanced I’ve encountered in a mainstream web site…and can be understood and progressed from by those who are interested…
Was a good read One Two, and worth the couple of minutes it took to do so.
My children are grown so the vaccination issue is one I don’t look into much anymore. But I am always surprised by the vitriol expressed on this issue, and the calls for mandatory medication. This could be a result of the medium that allows for collective censure, which brings out the bully in all of us, but I can’t remember it being that divisive twenty years ago.
It certainly is testament to the psychological abuse pushed repeatedly at the public, setting parents against eachother, children against eachother as well as children against their own parents…
It has been ramped up to levels which have essentially exposed vaccine science for what it always was…something masquerading as science…there is a word for that…
The aggressive campaigns through corporate media leading to poorly advised and punitive legislations, have created the situation you describe…
Hostile is an understatement…all aimed in the the wrong directions…
Your link cites a study suggesting that, while the DTAP vaccine protects against infection from those three bacteria, it makes children more susceptible to dying from other causes. If this were true, it would certainly concerning however..
It was published in a rather obscure journal. This by itself doesn’t give us an indicator of the quality of the paper, but if we really had data that showed us there was a concern with the DTaP vaccine, an important part of the childhood vaccine schedules worldwide, it should have been published in a higher quality journal.
The study looks at the mortality rate after the vaccine used at that time, which contained the whole-cell version of pertussis. That vaccine was pulled from the market and replaced with an acellular version. Reasons for changing the vaccines are complex, but it was partially because of the higher rate of minor adverse events with the wP version of the pertussis vaccine. There is no evidence I am aware of that the wP version caused more deaths than the current aP version.
The study only examined 1057 children, which is a tiny number in any epidemiological study that tries to compare one group to another to examine a potential effect. Many case control studies that examine vaccine effects (either effectiveness or adverse events) use 100,000 to several million patients and there’s certainly far more data on this vaccine available now at medicine regulators around the world.
The number of deaths that was used in the study was tiny, sometimes only 1 death in a population group (like female unvaccinated children). Because they used such small numbers, unintentional bias could occur.
The deaths were not categorized and may have absolutely nothing to do with vaccination. With such small numbers analyzed, it’s possible that unrelated mortality could have given results that could change dramatically with just a handful of unrelated deaths.
Ironically, the study showed that there was decreased mortality with the children who received oral polio vaccine (separate from the DTP vaccine). If we accept this statistically suspect small sample as unbiased (which we can’t), the overall results are positive with a full vaccination.
This leads me a critical point in the vaccine debate that those critical of vaccination cherry-pick studies that support beliefs about vaccine safety, the antithesis of real science. If we look at larger studies more broadly, what can we say about the safety profile of the DTaP vaccine?
There’s a Danish study that included over 805,000 children looking at various outcomes to getting multiple antigen vaccines, such as DTP or DTaP, came to this conclusion:
‘… results do not support the hypotheses that multiple-antigen vaccines or aggregated vaccine exposure increase the risk of non-targeted infectious disease hospitalization.”
In a meta-review, considered by many as the pinnacle of high quality scientific research hierarchy, which included over 183,000 participants in 58 different trials, the authors concluded that,
‘..Acellular vaccines have fewer adverse effects than whole-cell vaccines for the primary series as well as for booster doses.’
The authors found no vaccine related mortality for either vaccine, which completely contradicts the belief about the lack of safety of the DTaP vaccine.
Hviid A, Wohlfahrt J, Stellfeld M, Melbye M. Childhood vaccination and nontargeted infectious disease hospitalization. JAMA. 2005 Aug 10;294(6):699-705. PubMed PMID: 16091572.
Mogensen SW, Andersen A, Rodrigues A, Benn CS, Aaby P. The Introduction of Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Oral Polio Vaccine Among Young Infants in an Urban African Community: A Natural Experiment. EBioMedicine. 2017 Mar;17:192-198. doi: 10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.01.041. Epub 2017 Feb 1. PubMed PMID: 28188123; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5360569.
Zhang L, Prietsch SO, Axelsson I, Halperin SA. Acellular vaccines for preventing whooping cough in children. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2014 Sep 17;(9):CD001478. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD001478.pub6. Review. PubMed
Mullet, good on you for having a genuine go at contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way…
I am responding as a show of appreciation for that comment…
Comments I’ve posted, yesterday and today provide ample starting points for those who are interested and were able to pick up on them…as such I am not going to address the mesh of points you attempted to raise…
Except these few:
* You, nor anyone in the entire human populace is aware of ‘the entire volume of research’ let alone map it all out…so absolutely…you are not aware of ‘evidence’…same applies to any individual or agency who uses that deceptively misleading statement
* Published in a ‘big journal’ is subjective speculation on your part , and your part only. It transparently leads into the next dot points in effort to create a sense of dismissive minimizing of the research team, the report and the findings
* Cherry picking is your projection and does not alter the validity of the findings in the 190 page report, that you’ve actually cherry picked data from in an attempt to further dismiss and minimize the research findings
* The study reported positive and negative outcomes from the research, and you seek to trivialise all findings claiming ‘size bias’ without referencing the duration of the researched study
Ironically, vaccine science and corporate testing protocols and regulatory licensure have achieved approval to market, including recommended schedule vaccines using highly dubious (documented) tactics and inferior ‘research protocols’ from smaller test cohorts alongside truncated , fast tracked timelines
* Danish studies including the link you posted to last week, have a track record of corporate sponsored ‘research’ becoming reference studies of the vaccine science industry, used ad nauseum by vaccine advertising dependant journals and media outlets
It seems you have more to offer the discussion, than the usual remarks and name calling would suggest…
Well, if you come from a broken home with nothing but shitty role models you might understand the attraction of a man who gives you straight up good advice. The demonisation of Peterson, as some of his views are nonsensical, detract from the fact he’s put a lot of people’s lives back on track.
And the left can’t stand it. He doesn’t preach but it’s based in biblical teaching. He explains why. They don’t care. Utterly shitty people protesting just to protest, you find them at every protest, just wankers looking for excitement in their meaningless lives.
Society, instead of learning what they can from all this, taking the good, made blanket statements of condemnation and all we learned is there’s a lot of judgmental assholes out there prepared to lie and distort things to get their column inches.
It’s trendy to hate Peterson, and banal.
Maybe people think the public will think they’re clever if they one up an intellectual.
you need to watch his talks, not listen to the attention clamoring press.
I’m waiting for the first lawsuits by the kids of anti-vaxxers pro-plaguers (good point JS). Suing their parents after they catch a fully preventable disease because their parents refused to get them vaccinated.
Yet hunger is not the context here. Because there is other bad shit happening, it does not minimise the stupidity of playing russian roulette with a child’s life.
It was a parody of the RNZ headline (a source didn’t go with the style).
It is the most appropriate source for anyone interested in the facts. Someone wih your views ought to know these facts which can then be contrasted with any risk of an adverse effect. Caring and committed child health professionals throughout the world, well appraised with the facts, are entirely convinced by the weight of evidence. Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?
Interesting that you know what my views are – since I haven’t articulated them on this thread…
You have such faith in a medical system and drug clinical trials that allows you to accept all information without question. Some ask questions anyway.
I have faith in the scientific process that utilises qualified people to continually and robustly investigate and test the basis and foundation of knowledge. I trust the motives of people who care for children and I listen carefully to what they say.
For illustration check out the comprehensive and continually expanding list of studies published on the Immunisation Advisory Centre’s website:
I’d like to give another shoutout to Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage for her massive expansion of the National park estate through the Mohikinui River and catchment.
I would also like to give a great big shoutout to all the activists around and in Forest and Bird who campaigned against that dam, squashed those corporate dogs in Meridian, and ensured this great area remains wild and free forever.
It includes about 15km of the Mokihinui riverbed, all of the Mokihinui Forks Ecological Area, a large part of the Lyell Range-Radiant Range conservation area and a small part of what remains of North West Nelson Forest Park, most of which became Kahurangi National Park when it was established in 1996.
The Mokihinui addition to Kahurangi National Park is equivalent in size to Abel Tasman and Paparoa National Parks combined and is twice the size of Egmont National Park.
Kahurangi is the country’s second largest park and with the addition of the Mokihinui land, it will increase in size by 14 per cent to 517,335ha. Fiordland National Park, at more than 1,230,000ha, is the largest national park.
6. PROS AND CONS OF CORRIDORS Noss (1987) provided a list of some potential advantages and disadvantages of ecological corridors. The following is an elaboration of his scheme.
A quick look at the maps shows that AT and Kahurangi NP’s are already very close together; any corridor between the two lies mainly along a relatively short area on the top of the Takaka Hill limestone area, north of the state highway.
From memory most of this area is pretty undeveloped, marginal farmland or regenerating. There are some private dwellings scattered about in the area, but nothing at any scale.
Surely a formal corridor would be feasible, even if it didn’t have the full formal status of a National Park, along with all the restrictions that would imply. Something more like say a Forest Park that permitted existing activities and dwellings, but protected it from further development?
You’re more familiar with the area than I am, would something like that work?
Great news!! Now, we just need to add the Matiri River Valley to the park on its eastern boundary. Oops too late, construction of the hydro scheme is under way. This was one that got the nod from the John Key government – payback to the Talley family for years of National party support.
Lake Matiri is a wildlife refuge and part of Kahurangi NP, the Matiri River Valley was deliberately excluded due to its power generation potential. Despite significant local opposition, the power scheme was consented quite some years ago. The Talley family chose not to make a start (power prices too low?) and recently sold the consent to Pioneer Generation, Talleys still own the land. DOC could have refused the concession due to lack of required reports etc but didn’t. Pressure from above??
.Well done indeed Eugene Thanks Ad. A good post. I see they are leaving the remains of the monster wasp nest in the tree at Hamurana, for fear of poisoning the stream.
Pest control always has fish hooks, but is worth it.
I know there is an issue of scale…but I have dealt to wasp nests by enclosing said structure in a heavy duty plastic bag, tying off the top and cutting the whole caboodle free from it’s anchor. Bag containing wasp nest can then be further contained until inhabitants discorporate. This can be sped up by freezing. Or chemicals.
Of course…the use of a plastic bag might not be acceptable either….oh, life is getting sooo complicated!
Woulda been even more exciting if there was another undetected entrance that led under the house. Seen that almost happen, not quite under the house but uncomfortably close…
Hah! When a neighbour deployed one of those sonic rodent deterrers, our usual non chemical methods of keeping the rat population down in our chook house failed. (The rats moved to our place.) The rats congregating in broad daylight to give us the single digit salute coincided with the failure of a large batch of very hot chili paste to seal properly. We emptied the contents of the bubbling jars down the most used rat runs…..
Back in the day when one could purchase strings of double happy firecrackers….
Humans are apex predators. But I don’t need to kill for food, and nor do domesticated animals. The problem with cats is not killing for food supply so much, as simply killing for fun.
I often wonder if, at some stage, we’d deliberately culled out the ‘cruel’ cats, we’d have a better breed that only killed when hungry.
I’d agree that humans are at the top of the food chain but as far as an apex predator I’d put bears above us. and cats don’t kill for fun, that’s just the human talking. Cats kill vermin that stray in there territory when they not feeding. Cats are cats. I’d suggest people who don’t really understand cats enough to leave them alone instead of dating bits off them and making them carry around fashion accessories, I’d suggest they get a goldfish.
Muscled, black with steel green eye
Swishing through the rye grass
With thoughts of mouse and apple pie
Tail balancing at half-mast
And the mouse police never sleeps
Lying in the cherry tree
Savage bed foot warmer
Of purest feline ancestry
Look out, little furry folk
He’s the all night working cat
Eats but one in every ten
Leaves the others on the mat
And the mouse police never sleeps
Waiting by the cellar door
Window-box town crier
Birth and death registrar
With claws that rake a furrow red
Licensed to mutilate
From warm milk on a lazy day
To dawn patrol on hungry hate
No, the mouse police never sleeps
Climbing on the ivy
Windy roof top weathercock
Warm blooded night on a cold tile
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
…
Songwriters: Ian Anderson
Could we develop a family of cats which are really good mice catchers. That would save me putting down poisoned grain and have mousetraps littering the place. I think the parents have to teach the catching skills, so by careful breeding and initiation procedures, they would be very useful cats and not a disdained predator – they could be as valuable as trained sheep dogs.
Dogs have a lineage of pack hunting and scavenging which made them really suseptable to domestication where as cats are extremely territorial and would savage humans in an instance if it was large enough and it’s a simple as that.
My encounters with the buzzy things have been during house painting or gardening. I never could see the logic in using chemicals which inevitably infuriate the beasts if one is having to continue working in that area. Hence the containment. Mind you…I don’t have one of those nifty zoot suits.
This wasp nest is right round the trunk of a palm tree and the tree could be damaged. It’s growing on a steep slope, slippery for the blokes, and perhaps slippy if tree died or was removed leaving soil uncovered and exposed to the heavy rain we are getting.
WTF??!!? Somehow I just took it as given that a major government building initiative would include at least include the simplest and basic energy and cost efficient choices. But it seems not …
Meanwhile, if there’s any readers with any concern whatsoever for their budget that are still using old-skool incandescent bulbs, get yourself to Bunnings or Mitre 10 today and buy replacement LED bulbs for them. Seriously. Do it now. You can get them for $3 each or less.
You’ll want warm white colour (unless you like your house to look like the alien autopsy room in a bad sci-fi movie), for most fixtures look at the existing incandescent bulb and divide the watts by 10. I’ve pretty much replaced all bulbs that were 100W incandescents when I moved in with 9W LEDs and I’m happy with the how much light there is. If you want more tech details, ask and I’ll write up a bit more.
By the $, a 100W incandescent costs $0.02 to $0.03 per hour, so if it’s on an average of 1 hour per day, that’s $7 to $11 per year. Plus incandescents only have a design life of 1000 hours, by industry agreement. Compare to an LED that costs $3 initially to buy, but pays for itself in electricity savings in 3 to 6 months and should last 10,000 hours or longer.
If you’ve now got compact fluorescents, it’s probably still worth changing to LEDs but the payback time is two or four years. And you get full light instantly instead of the fluorescents taking a minute or so to warm up and get to full brightness.
Flourescent bulbs were a massive gyp. i think I posted on them here some time back. The past is past. LED’s must have improved cos last I looked at them (probably a decade) they were good for a few months then diminished capacity was the norm.
Yeah there’s been huge improvements in LEDs over the last decade. But if you’re still suspicious, keep the receipt for a warranty or CGA claim if they do start to fade.
Ten years ago I paid $6 each for the nearly best new tech available to make myself mountain bike lights – 1Watt chips mounted on a 23mm aluminium star module heatsink that put out a then amazing 100 lumens/watt. Nowadays if I were inclined to do the same thing I’d be paying about $1.50 each for 10W chips mounted on a 12mm heatsink that would be up around 140 lumens/watt.
The key to long life in LEDs is keeping the chip from getting hot. They’ve learned a lot about getting better thermal paths from the chip to the heatsink, and in turning more of the electrical energy into light so there’s less heat to dissipate.
Interesting info Andre. I knew LED’s had improved, but for a relatively mature tech that’s pretty impressive.
By complete contrast I recall buying my first red LED almost 50 years ago, it took me ages to save for it, and it barely glowed by today’s standards. But it was worth it just to have this amazing new light source in my own hands.
Dunno that I’d call LEDs relatively mature. There’s still a hell of a lot of space for improvement that nobody has found a way into yet.
For general lighting with acceptable colour rendering, a device that turns 100% of input electrical energy into useful light would put out about 370 lumens/watt. At the moment, the best LEDs top out around 200 lumens/watt.
At the moment, most white LEDs are actually a blue LED shining through a yellow phosphor. So there’s significant light energy lost and heat generated for every blue photon that gets turned into a yellow photon.
The next level of energy efficiency is combining blue LEDs shining through a green phosphor with red LEDs (these are commercially available as Phillips Hue LEDs at horrendous price). There’s less energy lost turning a blue photon into a green one and the necessary red photons are separately emitted at high efficiency by the red LED. Our eyes also respond to red, green and blue light, so a light source that directly emits red, green and blue has an inherent efficiency headstart over a light source that’s blue and yellow. It’s also possible to vary how much energy goes into the red vs the blue-and-green, so the light can change from a cozy yellowish warm light to a brighter daylightish white when wanted.
So that naturally raises the question of producing white light with separate red, green, and blue LEDs. Well, nobody has yet found a way to make high-efficiency green LEDs, so that’s an area with potential.
I agree. Seems like Twyford wants to make the coalition look like luddites, but more likely he has been knee-capped by whoever made the design decision. Twyford ought to apologise to the public, acknowledge that the govt wants to implement Green house designs, and direct his department to operate accordingly. Bad looks like this will hurt the coalition unless swift remedial action is taken.
That a level of detail that should have been dealt to several pay grades below Twyford. As I see it, there’s even a potential messaging opportunity here for Twyford to push change to a new way of doing thing. Where instead of the initial cost ruling all decisions there’s more attention on whole-of-life costs.
Twyford has screwed completely a policy that was 7 years in the making, thru what … lack of any detail to implement, and has not delivered more than a few spec builders would have supplied to the market in the same period.
To limit to 1st home buyers was a mistake imo, and should the time come that we have any volume, many of today’s 1st buyers will already have moved into a place.
Honestly can anyone expect 1st buyers wait until an appropriate house comes available in their town/city?
Why would people say that not having LED bulbs installed in the homes was a case of lacking in energy efficiency? The sockets for the lights are the same as incandescent if looking at the cheapest and safest. My incandescents cost a little over $1 each and last six months. It would seem that buying LEDs is better, so if I can get warm white, (I dislike the stark white-blue alernative), and am not price-limited I will buy them. But I like having incandescents as spares that I keep in reserve for failures.
Not everyone can get cheap LEDs where they shop. Incandescents should be kept as cheap alternartives while education about the LEDs should continue. That easy calculation of dividing by 10 to find the right level of light when choosing LEDs is handy thanks. Looking at the lumens and other terminology is confusing and people have limited time to moon over products gathering information in the shop.
At my place with 2 adults and 3 kids at home on after dark it was quite feasible for 20 or even 30 bulbs to be lit up. At an average of say 75W each (if they were incandescents) that would be a load of 1.5kW to 2.5 kw, at peak time. and maybe 3 to 5 kWhr per day just for lighting.
Swap those to LED and it’s around 0.2 to 0.3 kw lighting load at peak time, and less than 1 kWhr per day usage for lighting.
How is that difference not an energy efficiency issue?
Furthermore in a new build you can design the lighting around the characteristics of LED lighting and the way LEDs are more directional. LEDs also don’t generate enough heat to risk starting fires if something like insulation or wood is too close. The insulation issue can be a big one, it’s surprising how much warmth can get lost through old-skool ceiling downlight fixtures that have to have the insulation set back quite a distance.
Michael Cullen has been involved with finance for yonks. Just to refresh us on old but important history: When the Prime Minister, David Lange, attempted to limit the influence Douglas had on the government’s direction, Cullen became involved on Lange’s side. After Labour’s re-election in 1987, Cullen was made Associate Minister of Finance (an attempt by Lange to provide an anti-reform counterbalance to the radical Douglas) and Minister of Social Welfare (an attempt to limit the impact of the reforms in that area).
Eventually, Douglas was forced to resign, but a month later the political controversies around the dispute prompted the resignation of Lange himself. Douglas was succeeded as Finance Minister by David Caygill, one of his allies (albeit a considerably less radical one). Cullen was made Associate Minister of Health, again to reduce the effect of reforms on that sector.
When Labour lost the 1990 election (something attributed by many people to public anger at Douglas’ reforms, and disarray within the Labour Party), Cullen returned to being Labour’s spokesperson on social welfare. The following year, he replaced David Caygill as the party’s chief finance spokesperson…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cullen_(politician)
Eric the Ripper has a good ring to it, he and Hotchin towelled up a few investors here in NZ and even managed to get Sir Owen Glenn over a barrell. Karma is a bitch isn’t it.
Their was one thing that was missing from this report.
The IRD, in 2002, approved the scheme. They gave an opinion that it was an Approved Issuer and that the 2% was the correct rate.
The in 2010 the reversed their opinion. That, unfortunately is something the IRD do quite commonly. The effect is that people who relied on the opinion given by the IRD find, much later on, that they have changed their mind and claim taxes and penalties for something they said was fine.
I have no objection to them changing their view. However I don’t believe they should be able to backdate the change.
It is rather like them dropping the blood alcohol limit from 80 to 50 and then fining everyone who was measured at a level between 50 and 80 at a time when that was quite legal.
It is, in practice, passing a retrospective law.
‘Shipley also invests US$50,000 in Richina. According to numbers quoted by Richard Yan during the court case, Shipley’s investment in the Chinese company could now potentially be worth US$14 million ($22 million), on paper at least.’
Reading this,it seems very clear what was going on here.There is a name for it that begins with F.
female
fortitude
felony
fandangle
flaccid
fart
finagle
fact-finding
foolishness
That’s my stream of consciousness thinking – the f’s that came to mind.
Here’s a couple of interesting articles on insurance, or not being able to get insurance in specific areas due to risk from natural disasters or the result of CC.
Now remind me of what the role of the former State Insurance was prior to it being sold and what the then muppets said about the market is always right as there is no need to have a Government own/ backed insurance company.
I’m a little bit surprised that the IAG can 50% of the market share in Wellington and if IAG is prepared to do this to Wellington, then what does this say IRT other parts of the country that are at risk from earthquakes and volcanic eruptions?
At a briefing on the new indictments Tuesday, Andrew Lelling, a U.S. attorney for Massachusetts, said that some parents paid up to $6.5 million “to guarantee admission” for their children to elite colleges. He said that a total of 33 parents have been charged.
“There will not be a separate admissions system for the wealthy. And there will not be a separate criminal justice system, either,” Lelling said.
How about we ditch the lawnmower and plant a range of pasture grasses and flowers instead which wouldgrow unhindered and as the season changes so do the different species?
Seems strange that we spend so much time mowing stuff and annoying the suburbians.
Pro-life my arse.
I can’t quite put in word how much i despise these fucking forced birthers and how much i despite doctors that would let a women develop a sepsis before ‘aborting’ the rotting fetus she carries cause ‘heartbeat’.
“In one case, a patient who had suffered cardiac arrest shortly before getting pregnant did not meet the hospital’s threshold for life endangerment and was unable to afford to travel and pay for an abortion at the nearest hospital that would see her, about four hours away. She ended up miscarrying in her second trimester. In another case, a patient who was dying from metastatic cancer needed abortion care. The hospital took so long to deliberate, she miscarried too.
“Our conversation should have been like, ‘How can we help you heal and meet whatever your goals are in this terrible situation’, and not about this stupid law,” the doctor said.
“My hands are tied,” she continued. “I can’t do what’s right for the patient.””
yes one can keep roe vs wade ‘legal’ yet put up so many ‘trap’ laws that effectively even a women dying of a septic pregnancy will not get the care she needs. Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women. I can’t find other reasons then hate disguised as ‘won’t no one think of the babies’ cause no, you are not fucking thinking of the baby – born or unborn – and you certainly don’t care about the ‘host’ aka the mothers. (hosts – https://www.google.com/search?q=pregnant+women+are+hosts&oq=pregnant+women+are+hosts&aqs=chrome..69i57.4072j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 )
Well I’m pro choice because arguably the fetus is apart of the woman.
That’s why in my opinion consent is more important than pro choice. The age of legal consent should be again, and this is my opinion, but it should be 21 – 25 years old to account for brain development and basically there’s no marked improvement in income until you’re a graduate.
Having to continue carrying a baby that is dead inside you, is one of the joys that the ethical society force on some unfortunate women. It’s not a healthy situation for her, and negates any suggestion that women and their fertility role is respected by society and those in power. A hero – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
What names do others know of who have championed women in their fertility burden?
“Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women.”
Yes there are circumstances in which abortion is the only humane option. But I encourage you to watch this. To the end.
Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.
So no,
if you read the article above you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain, unable to walk, with fever and because they are not yet ‘actively’ dying do not get the health care they need and should be entitled too.
But maybe you missed the part that i put in quotes ‘ had miscarriages in the second trimester’ cause obviously it is more important for the women to suffer some more month then give them the care they need.
So take your preacher / ob gyn and shove him where its dark. Cause this guy will never be denied healthcare, he will never be left to fester with a dead fetus until he ‘actively is dying’ and he will never have to make the choice of having an abortion at an early stage or when you are told that your child that you wanted is growing with a brain outside the skull or has not lungs and that you can’t have an abortion cause hey, women, you are a host, and as such you would have no issues birthing this child and then watch it die.
Pro life my ass. Forced birth. Once born, pull yerself up by your bootstrap child.
‘…you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain…”
So why the rant about abortion? The issue you are raising is a valid health issue, not necessarily connected to access to abortions.
“Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.”
That’s rather closed minded. He has performed thousands of abortions, and is describing the utter inhumanity if the process. It is chilling.
add new KiwiSaver contribution rates of 6% and 10% and make the savings scheme accessible to those aged over 65;
I’m running on 8% kiwisaver at present, and getting some quite reasonable returns. I wouldn’t mind kicking that up as everything is automatic and way less hassle than dealing with other investments on an ongoing basis. Essentially automatic payments really waste my personal time when they come out of my working account. It doesn’t take much to suddenly be providing the bank with extra revenue with fees. And even worse, I get people trying to ring me when I’m coding which is REALLY expensive.
Which is why I’ve pretty well eliminated most of automatic payments including those to other investment funds. Paying as part of my PAYE is way easier which is now the only way I do it. Other bills just get paid when I have a few spare minutes on my phone.
But I would like to push a bit more into investments. It’d be nice to have a 12% or 15%. But 10% is better than 8%
Also I’m not planning on stopping work (or riding my e-bike to work) unless I really really have to. I’m nearly 60 now and still coding well. Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.
“Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.”
🙂
Careful tho’ @ lprent – things like experience and proven record can often account for sweat FA these days
I have tended to rely less on experience and track records than on companies being desperate to get their projects out of the door.
Most jobs that I have had in programming for the last couple of decades has been after whoever I went to work for had an unfortunate problem of some kind caused by mismanagement of their projects in their staffing, documentation, design, or implementation and needing someone to recover it.
i am so pleased about it. My shop girl studies, works for me and has a few other side digs in summer when the tourist come. I am so pleased for her that she does not have to pay more taxes on her income now then Gareth Morgan.
Seems an attention getter, without having to strip, but it really is part of a porn movement to look at me, I’m good looking and achieving celebrity and you can be like me. Tell people things that make them think, or feel they have gone through the motions.
It’s mental gym here folks, worry about my subject, and don’t waste your energies on the rest of life, which is confusing and debilitating to the mind. Stay with us and reeelaaax your mind, and together we will solve your problems. Half the things you worry about don’t happen. You can have twice as much fun in your life if you just stop worrying about finding the truth and just listen to us; listen to our Foundation; The Foundation of Life.
Watch out for that in your letterbox and on line soon. Someone will pick up on that to sell something to the peeps.
poor thing, still trying to get away from tax faster then anyone can say boo.
Can’t have Gareth Morgan pay taxes. Now that would upset the tax evader.
Poor thing, did no one tell him that he would have to pay nothing if he is not selling his assets:? Oh that is how he made his money in the first place? Sucks to be him.
This inclusion of taxation upon all income to capital (not just homes but all non-financial capital) properly integrated into the current income tax regime…”
I don’t know what that means. Annual levies? Does that mean like higher Rates?
I have sought an answer for this but does anyone know how this would be better than CGT?
Morgan is not entirely clear on what he means by “annual levies”, but I think he means the tax on imputed rentals. Perhaps The Economixt sees the lack of these as a possible justification for capital gains taxes, but thinks it would be better to apply them on a regular basis rather than as lump sum tax when the property is sold.
Morgan provides a link to the Economist article but it’s behind a paywall. However the headline indicates that what the Economist wanted to replace was stamp duty on the sale of a property.
That would be good – a CGT of reasonable percentage on commercial and rented properties. Then stamp duty of a small percentage on all properties.
Two bites at a luscious cherry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you lachrymose speculators. (I thought I would throw in a new word to the stewpot with the so many others used in the debate about taxes on housing.)
I think you are misunderstanding the comments. The Economist was writing about the British situation, and recommending that their stamp duty be abandoned, and replaced by an annual payment of some sort. Without having access to the Economist article I cannot say what the nature of that annual payment would be.
A woman complained that there were’nt jobs available to locals. If it was her personally, she should have put up her own advert. If it was general she should have not butted in, it isn’t the Finnish woman’s fault and it was just bad-mouthing her instead of the politician who should be controlling foreign workers. But she iwould be unlikely to have put her thoughts to the polly, most NZs just vent, full of sour air.
And the men who used the opportunity to make remarks that were sleazy or suggestive, that is so childish. They have no awareness of how to communicate in a public place, as on-line sites are, and that shows lack of maturity too. I wonder where these men learned their attitudes towards women? In the home? Is it being passed on down the generations in some farm families? And the old refrain – just having a joke, some people have no sense of humour.
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
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Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
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50%, or 5/10 headlines topping NZH website today have a dollar sign in them.
40%, or 4/10 mention ‘celebrities’.
NZH, complete and utter shite.
Too true!! WTB
Oh God don’t morph into Paul please!!!!
LOL. Who is Paul, is he handsome and witty?
More recently known as Ed, and probably even more recently (and briefly) known as Jinx. Definitely not witty, in fact completely devoid of any detectable humour whatsoever.
OK. That’s not me. I feel very strongly about comedy. I even got arrested once trying to smuggle comedy into Germany.
That sounds like one of the very best conversation ice breakers ever
Maybe you could try it on Jude?
How is the Judith campaign? We’re cheering for you.
He boycotted the herald and many other things but always new what was on the front page and screeched regularly about it. . Must have been telepathic.
Pseudo-pseudo majorly concentrated on funnelling the USA and world disasters to us. I wondered why he seemed stuck in a rut, but after WtB’s count of its headline groupings, if he looked at the Herlad that would have been predictable.
Just one word of amelioration about the Herald – it does produce some good factual stuff; we aren’t seeing it become the National Enquirer yet.
I believe he boycotted the paper version. Looking at the front page for free to see what topics they were covering was a very smart move by Ed.
WtB
Lol
A good rejoinder and sets a high bar for the rest of us.
NZH New Zealand’s best fush and chip wrapping paper. it is full of RWNJ B/S IMHO
NZH is committed to the Truth so they say, and Read it and Believe it. Thanks granny, Who would not agree to that. (sarc) .
Thank you WtB. You remind me so much of Ed, thank you. We were so fortunate to be graced with his presence here.
and RNZ this morning:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384585/parents-sending-unimmunised-children-to-school-despite-warnings
Media sending out unhelpful ‘news’ despite 110,000 children dying annually from now preventable disease!
Don’t the anti-vaxxers have questions to answer over this outbreak?
What do they have to say, all those strident opinionsters who for so long harangued others for vaccinating?? Why have they all gone quiet?
What do they say to the outbreak? Surely there are a few anti-vaxxers around these here parts …. come in anti-vaxxers … what say thee
Yes but the rates of Autism are plummeting /sarc
,,,, and Gossie measles are going through the roof another National Party outcome result ?
Eh???? Why are you pinning this on National? In case you missed it, they haven’t been in power for well over a year.
Goss you are are denier of the truth we have had 9 years under the Natzi’s of bleeding our Health System dry IMHO
Hmmmm…in these times, where even expressing an interest into thoroughly investigating all aspects of what are now considered conventional practices (be it vaccination, fluoridation of public water supplies, widespread 1080 use, widespread agrichemical use etc) is going to attract a shit tonne of ‘strident’ pro-ers tearing one to bits and accusing the ‘antis’ of being the cause of all the worlds problems…is it any reason your so called ‘anti – vaxxers’ are keeping a low profile?
Judging by the comments sections of msm articles about all of the above issues…it is the ‘pro’ lobby dishing out the bulk of the shit in a ‘strident’ manner
So. Being a person who was raised to make my own inquiries I’ve gone to the source, so to speak, and downloaded the current Immunisation Handbook from the that august institution the Ministry of Health.
http://www.moh.govt.nz/notebook/nbbooks.nsf/0/5B75258BCFDED7CACC257CF4007CE5B8/$file/immunisation-handbook-may14-v2.pdf a mere 670 pages of everything you didn’t know you needed to know about this very important issue.
The Disclaimer, though, kinda made my eyebrows rise….
“Disclaimer
This publication, which has been prepared for, and is published by, the Ministry of Health, is for the assistance of those involved in providing immunisation services in New Zealand.
While the information and advice included in this publication are believed to be correct, no liability is accepted for any incorrect statement or advice.
No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?
Those sort of publications always have that sort of warning.
There are people who simply cannot be given immunizations. There is apparently at least one child in this category at the Christchurch school. Quite why that is so I don’t know.
Anybody reading this publication you have is merely being told to consider the individual health situation of the person concerned before going ahead with the injection.
“No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?”
Yes absolutely, this is standard risk management by the MoH, no different from the provision of any medication or medical procedure to a patient. Benefits must out weigh risks…do no harm etc etc
yes. The harm from not immunizing only eventuate if they loudly declare how they are justified they are not to, and enough of the herd follow their lead. It’s like they want to kill lots of people and get a egotistical high of the higher ground.
The Min of Health is just protecting itself from possible expensive legal claims that people who have endless negative cautions, and a positive desire for litigation, are adding to the maelstrom of matters to fear and defend oneself from.
Have only just caught up on this thread Rosemary. Thanks for taking the time to try and take the heat out of the discussion.
I don’t agree with any premise that mandates compulsory medication.
I’m surprised that so many progressives become authoritarian so easily.
“I’m surprised that so many progressives become authoritarian so easily.”
Exactly the concern expressed five minutes ago by a family member…and its not just over this issue.
I find it quite scary, and deeply saddening.
I read some of Linus Pauling’s work on Vitamin C, and remember an article about a vaccination programme in Australia on aboriginal children.
A doctor working with the children, advocated for the administration of Vitamin C before any of the children were vaccinated. He theorised that their diet did not provide their immune system with the ability to respond to the vaccinations as expected. Ridiculed for this procedure, when he left his post the fatality rate for immunised children rose as high as 50% in the Northern Territories. And this was in the 70’s.
A quick google comes up with an article relating to this.
There is a long and terrible history of forced medication or medical intervention. Measles seems to be a very low bar to call for compulsory vaccination.
Many people who have had iatrogenic experiences, don’t have the blind faith in medical institutions and decision making that is required for such clear non-questioning compliance.
Wouldn’t you say that many on this site are authoritarian in their views with regards to the action required to address climate change? And rightly so. Evidence suggests action is required on climate change.
When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe, then we have a right to be “authoritarian” in those views, and we must always call out those who choose to ignore the evidence. Vaccinate your kids, or stay out of our schools. The exception obviously being those who cannot vaccinate based on medical professional opinion – which is exactly why the rest of us need to vaccinate – to keep those who cannot vaccinate, safe!
“When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe,..”
Possibly the most recent evidence that that statement is false…
” In spite of protecting against the diseases, DTP-vaccinated children had fivefold higher mortality than children who didn’t receive the vaccine.
We have repeated this finding many times. Protection against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis seems to come at a very high price: increased risk of dying from other infections, such as respiratory infections, particularly for females. Translated into absolute numbers, the results indicate that the use of DTP vaccine in sub-Saharan Africa may cost tens of thousands of female lives every year. ”
The researcher is not saying all vaccines are bad and is not saying that all non live vaccines should be banned. She IS saying there is a very, very real problem with the order in which vaccines are given. She IS saying (well, implying) that because the whole discussion around vaccinations has become so polarised, these vital research findings are very likely to be lost in a(nother) shitstorm of extremist rage.
But. Whatever. I never cease to be awestruck at the absolute, blind commitment of some on these pages to a particular point of view, regardless of any information that might come their way that ordinarily would make a person have a further wee think.
Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.
It would have been more convincing if you had provided a link to that source before railing against people not reading it.
“Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.’
Case proven. How about, when you dive into an ongoing conversation, you actually backtrack and actually check out the links?
Or, I can just dish it up to you again….because information is power and all that…..
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
Sigh
Protecting children’s health is extremism? Funny old world.
“Protecting children’s health is extremism? Funny old world.”
Of course not, silly! 🙂
Mandatory, forced medical treatment that in far too many cases causes harm or even death to children should be questioned, no?
This is not extremism… but it is treated as if it is.
How many deaths have been avoided over the last few decades due to the vaccines? I would hazard a guess that this far outweighs the risks. It is the risks that you seem so fixated on, even if the evidence suggests the benefit to society outweighs these risks. You are looking for a perfect solution to eradicating these illnesses – I’m sorry, but there will never be one. But to expose the vast majority of the population to these illnesses based on a low level of risk from vaccination would be absurd. I’ll stop arguing at this point – as pro-plague people are extremely painful to argue with.
I would consider myself very concerned about climate change, and an advocate for effective changes, information sharing and planned transition. My personal individual choices reflect that as well as my attendance at a couple of select committee hearings and protests, and my commitment to submitting to government when possible.
Yet, I believe an authoritarian approach is one that treats people like children and dismisses any questions or concerns. Ultimately, it creates division and builds resistance to change. It may be the choice of the frustrated – and satisfy in the short term – but in the long term it takes greater energy to sustain and often results in significant pushback.
I prefer the term “pro-plague” to “anti-vax”
One of the few occasions I fully agree with Duncan Garner:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/duncan-garner-anti-vax-murderers-shouldn-t-get-access-to-the-welfare-system.html
Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.
There’s an Aussie woman on her way to NZ to spread her brand of anti-vaxxer poison. She should be banned from entering the country on the grounds she represents a danger to the community at large. In this case I strongly suspect she’s a con artist making a lot of money out of the anti-vaccine campaign.
Perhaps we could follow the example of the Italian Government.
From an Economist daily newsletter I get.
“Italian children can now be turned away from school unless there is proof they have been properly vaccinated. Parents of unvaccinated children aged between six and 16 can also be fined up to €500 ($565). Lorenzin law, introduced following a rise in measles cases, requires immunisation against a number of illnesses including chickenpox, polio, measles, mumps and rubella.”
Come on “Dr” Clark.
Bring this in here.
I would support such a law being introduced here.
Imo, the health and lives of children in particular trumps any freedom of speech concerns.
From what level of understanding would you support such a law, Anne?
That you endorse hate speech views such as garners on this subject signals your understanding of vaccine science is literally zero…
If you actually cared about children, you might take the time to spend learning and undstanding more about the subject…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
Or are you comfortable to disregard the body of evidence?
If you would like a discussion, and some links, I can share you many (to peer reviewed research)…
Do it for the children, Anne…you say you care about them…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
If I read you correctly then that is one of the most obnoxious pieces of crap I have ever encountered on the subject. It serves to highlight the necessity for a law to prevent that kind of hair-brained garbage from being advocated in public places.
And Nigel Latta expressed the same views as mine on Seven Sharp tonight except in a rather more diplomatic fashion. (Not online yet)
Btw, I was professionally trained in both the physical and psychological health and well being of children.
Anne. Please read/watch the article One Two linked to ….
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
Precis….live vaccines good and can have health benefits beyond the target disease. Dead vaccines….not so good…in fact bad in far too many cases…especially for girls.
Very simple precis, and I sincerely hope it gets your attention.
Live vaccines priming the immune system. Absolutely no surprise there though it is a wow moment for me that the coverage is more comprehensive than the targeted disease. And this was found for multiple live vaccines. Wow.
I kinda see why doctors prefer the dead vaccine and why mothers do not. But patient harm in any form needs to be put under serious scrutiny. Is there any test for a pre-condition of immuno-compromised people?
I geek out on tweaking plant immunity with various microbes and fungi, viruses are over my pay grade – we did have a relatively
comprehensive look at HIV in postgrad. Damn thing evolves…
Our tutor was one of the ones that died on flight MH17. Damn shame that was.
About a century ago there was a woman helping Australian Aborigines at a time when polio was being vaccinated agai
Sister Kenny devised a way of treating polio victims that had better outcomes than previously. One of her ideas was that the vaccine shouldn’t be given to someone at a time when they had a cold, or their health was compromised. I think that would fit in with your idea of having a pre-condition that would affect immune systems.
She also did a lot of work keeping their limbs moving so that they didn’t end up as permanently disabled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Kenny
And yet you’ve offered zero, nothing to counter the comment I made…but go right ahead…you believe it’s “obnoxious crap and hairbrained garbage”… you must be able to back it up…
Surely if you’re supporting punitive laws, endorsing violent hate speech , you must have legitimate counters to my comment, Anne….you must have a level of understanding of the core issues…the research…the harm…the damaged and dead…
Surely, Anne…you must have…or how can you offer written support of such laws coming to Nz…Endorse censorship…you must have knowlegde and understanding to counter…
I’m offering you the opportunity for an open discussion…only you on this subject Anne…because you supported the hate speech I’m calling out…
I also believe you are a higher calibre of commentator on balance, here in comparison to others engaged in this discussion…
With respect…if your training was from your understood generation (based on your comments)…then it will be terribly outdated and in need of a refresh…
So go right ahead, Anne…provide substance of your position to endorse hate speech against children and parents…censorship and punitive legislations…
Your link…your words…your support…back it up…
Here we go… Nigel Latta talking about vaccines on Seven Sharp. Scroll past the weather and it’s the first item. Listen to Hillary and Jeremy after the end of the interview following the brief ASB ad. They make a couple of pertinent points couched in humour:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-stream-seven-sharp-2018?variant=tb_v_1
I’ll go with Nigel Latta and the medical authorities every time.
Nigel Latta. He’s a bit akin to a much loved teddy bear isn’t he? Hauled out, dusted off and cuddled so we can all feel comforted and secure. I had no idea he was an expert on immunology and vaccination science.
On second thoughts Anne…DON’T WATCH/READ WHAT DR BENN HAS TO SAY.
Fair enough Anne. That is the level of propaganda which you’re amenable to…that your level of understanding is derived from…
You’re not alone in being fooled…there are too many ‘fools’ …on either side of the discussion…including the paid ones in the link you posted…
You see Anne, it is not a binary discussion…despite your preferred propaganda channels imploring you to believe…it is a deeply nuanced, complicated set of (actual science) , not vaccine science and its pseudoscience relative, psychology…components…deeply personal…
You, and each and every individual…paid or unpaid who share…or pretend to share the same views…are already relegated to the sidelines of the discussion…while the minority goes about what the minorities through history…always go about doing…
That you so callously disregard the global scientific community’s body of archived research, performed and disseminated to those adults and parents who take full responsibility for their offspring, by spending time and energy learning and understanding that research…
Says that you Anne, have chosen…at this point in your life…not to grow…not to further your knowledge…not to gain understanding as to why it is you…and the ‘authorities’ you refer…who will continue to lose ground…who will continue to lack understanding about why…the vaccine science industry…has lost its position…
And you will continue to blame those who do know…who did the research…the science…who suffered the damage and loss…who shared the actual science with other adults from all professional and non professional backgrounds…to decide for themselves, the best choices to make for their children…
While yourself…and all those whose views you relate to…will continue to belittle and berate those…who took the time to grow and expand themselves…for the good of others…
And you and your ilk…will believe it is ‘others’…who are stupid…who are gullible…who are uneducated absorbers of fake news on the internet….
But that, Anne…is already the projections of those who have been sidelined…because real science…is never settled…
It had already moved on from what you ‘believed’ it to be…decades ago…and you’re not interested in updating yourself…
Thanks One Two. It’s reassuring to know that you’ve done all the research because you care so much… and still come up with the wrong outcomes.
Vaccines, amongst other public health methods, have lifted health quality outcomes like being free from communicable diseases and living longer to heights almost unimaginable 100 years ago.
But of course some stupid fuckwits on the internet know better than 97% of health professionals because they’ve done some reading. This is the magic number of scientists that confirm global warming is correct. So how can the same proportion of doctors be so wildly incorrect in your opinion?
Personally I don’t want my kids going to schools with other parents children who are trying to be 3rd world worriers. Vaccines should be legally mandated or no entry into public schools.
You must have paused for a moment to consider what drove your thoughts on legalizing mandatory vaccination…
Can you frame the basis of your thinking in terms of, medical, scientific, legal and ethical constructs…
I’m certainly interested to hear the level of though behind the two sentences…
You’re recently commenting here…which is why I’m taking the time to ask you…
The anti-vaccination movement is, by and large, a first world thing.
Take the polio vaccine, afaik, the oral polio vaccine, which has its risks. And is basically something given in (sometimes literal) shitholes where the disease is rampant anyway.
Vaccines are by definition of “reality” not 100% risk free: You can be allergic and only find out when you go into a seizure. It’s just that those situations are rare.
As in, between 1:1.000.000-2.000.000.
The risks of dying to something like measles, is even less with proper healthcare something like 1:1000, are you young, are you not that strong, you get pneumonia, and sometimes that’s it right there. It happens. In less priviliged societies? It kills.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
As long as the people involved clearly understand the risks of vaccines and why it’s so important to society to be able to control communicable disease down to manageable levels then I don’t see any reason why people can’t live and let live.
Only a single comment to respond with…covers the largest flaw in your core of your thinking…
* vaccinated communities have been proven to spread the same diseases (and mutated versions of) which are supposedly ‘vaccine preventable’ by injecting the vaccines(s) which manufactures, lawmakers and doctors, recommend,advise/force people to inject…to prevent from catching the [virus]…
Get better informed…no excuses for that level of missing data…
I’ll not be responding to you further on this subject…
Bulshit detector: 1+2=4
Translation: Before vaccines the death rate was 100%.
I do not like you using the words ‘hate’ speech One Two. It seems to me that they are being thrown around far too frequently.
Hate speech encourages KKK to go and hang African Americans, and to burn down their churches.
It shouldn’t be used about people who have a different point of view and argue strongly for it. Biased they are, foolish and bigoted perhaps, but hate is another bloody four letter word like rape. There seems little respect for language and meaning when such words are used freely.
Gw…you respond to enough of my comments to have realized that I do not use certain terminologies or insults…or hyperboles…
I call that link out for precisely what it is in this case..
Agree in principle with your view on overused terminology…
Which is why I reserve use of terminologies for genuine and appropriate use of them…
Such as in response to Annes link…and comments of support for the content of garners *.*
One Two: most of us accept that we live in an imperfect world where there are very few perfect solutions. Most of the time we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils, and I think this is one of them.
If all the anti-vax arguments are true, so be it – vaccination is an evil.
But I for one would much rather have had the risky vaccinations I have had, than suffer from just one of the nasty diseases I have been protected against.
For the vast majority of people the nasty diseases have a far more devastating effect than the vaccinations do , and for those who suffer from vaccinations, maybe we have to wait for medical science to help them as well..
Lesser of two evils.
If vaccinations had ever looked like being worse than the disease avoided, a huge majority would have become anti-vax.
Are you now going to tell me I am an innocent victim of propaganda?
In Vino, your comment indicates you’re ok with people making choices with regards to bodily autonomy, and forced medication…that position alone, is a respectable one to hold…
There are many points in your comment which I could address and which I could show are logically incorrect…but they are your perspective and your decisions to take for yourself…
What I would suggest is that no-one who involves themselves in having an opinion on vaccines, should allow themselves or others, the disservice of complacancy , laziness or ignorance by believing what they are told…or believing what they ‘know’…
Western medicine (the corporate consensus variety) has seemingly no interest in accepting why it might be an evolutionary necessity for humans to get sick and self heal, thus gaining genuine full cell immunity through a powered up immune system…it is what our bodies have been doing since day one…our immune systems are amazing just as they are…
Pure hubris to think that short circuiting and tricking the immune system with chemicals is not leading to human beings becoming sicker, with more illness and diseases in younger cohorts than modern medicine provides any answer for other than…more drugs/vaccines and toxic allopathic protocols…
Our spieces has evolved symbiotically over [forever number] of years with the very microbes we believe we have somehow mastered, and can control…and should eradicate from the environment…they can’t be…not by human beings…
To your final question…innocent victim…no not at all…just someone whose comment also indicates they need to invest more time into learning about the flaws in vaccine science…which actual science has now moved to unreservedly, exposing…
So much research and scholarly material available which could assist with helping people to make more well informed decisions for their own well being, and that of their loves ones…
One Two
I have kept an open mind as to your comments and the veracity of the beliefs, information, references etc. But the longer they are and the more you use emotional language, the more wary I become of your statements.
For once Sam comes up with something informative. And it is a serious matter which he takes through giving freedom to anti-vaxers with a waiver of treatment for their children. And a case to answer of involuntary manslaughter when they cause deaths.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
Then he makes the point about plagues that they cause 100% deaths. Which may not apply to measles, instead there will be numerous cases of people being debilitated badly, blind etc.
Measles infections can harm the front or back of the eye, possibly causing vision loss or blindness. Though measles is just re-emerging as a threat in developed countries, the disease has long been a leading cause of childhood blindness worldwide.Mar 5, 2015
(Some American Academy that blacks out everything over cookies)
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
One in ten will get ear infections and some hearing loss also.
In her book about her travels in early New Zealand colonial times, Florence Harsant travelled in remote areas where Maori had been struck down by measles. She was horrified to find whole households laid low, parents unable to care for children, and no-one in the village with medicines and no help from authorities.
She had to plan to escape herself from a travel limitation set up by either Maori or surrounding colonists, and advised health authorities herself.
As Sam says, this is a first world thing, with emotional people who haven’t been taught decision making, analysing risk, ratios and percentages and means and averages etc. And in life there is risk, and that we are surrounded by unsterile air, and constantly ignoring advice to wash hands after going to the toilet etc. – noticed in public places.
There are irresponsible people, there are ones who despise western medicine, there are others who are fatalists. One woman I knew of was a Pacific Islander of determined decisions, and she would not allow her teenager to use asthma aids, such as an inhaler. When her son died from an asthma sttack, the authorities did not know what to do for the best. I don’t know whether she was even charged with neglect. Some parents can not be reasoned with. Public health is set up to assist us, and has, but they must be watchful to keep up quality. Whatever they do, though there will be criticism – too early, too late, wrong type, over-spent on the wrong virus line.
Gw..and with respect…you’re clearly underinformed on this subject…take responsibility for your weariness…do not transfer your shortcomings onto my commentary…
Others have tried a similar tactic in the 5G discussion…it is a tactic of the disingenuous …
I addressed the logical failings in the core premise of Sams proposal…
Why are you ignoring my response to Sam, regarding known and proven vaccine failure rates?
That is…the spread of the very disease individuls were vaccinated against catching..
Messaging with people who do even tale the time to invest in learning vaccine 101 is not productive…
No emotions Gw…you’ve read me incorrectly…and you’ve written a novel…
Edit. You should stop using derogatory terms…I believe you are above such use of anti-v***
Alwyn for once I entirely agree with your suggestion. Producing proof of vaccination is a good idea which would save lives and prevent illness. I had polio, measles 2 kinds, mumps and chickenpox. There is no advantage having these diseases and every advantage not to.
Join the club. So did I.
Amazing that any of us made it to adulthood isn’t it?
I cannot understand anyone who refuses, or is simply to lazy, to vaccinate their children.
Some still believe that disgraced English doctor with his b*s about a connection between the MMR vaccination and Autism. Now there is a dreadful example of a human being.
One of the things the pro-disease crowd sometimes go on about is Big Pharma make money from vaccines so that inherently makes them suspicious.
Yet that fucking fraud Wakefield was busily patenting his single disease vaccines in order to line his pockets and consulting on lawsuits in order to line his pockets all the while he was fabricating his data that happened to support those activities. But somehow, he’s a hero to the pro-diseasers?
Wakefield. Yes now I remember the name. When I read about his activities at the time he was kicked out of the profession I got so mad at his behaviour I never wanted to read anything more about him, EVER.
When I wrote the comment here I couldn’t recall his name but I refused to google the story because it would simply make me so mad about that vile person again. So rather than do so about all I could think of to say was ” that disgraced English doctor”.
The number of kids who must have suffered so he could attempt to line his pockets.
Whooping cough was best…after the awful coughing the rest of 6 weeks off school to ride bikes up and down SH1 (wartime and almost no traffic. Seriously, they were all dangerous. Think the first immunisations were for diphtheria early 1940’s, done at school.
And to think Heather, our Mum’s put us into contact with other children who had contracted these diseases because it was believed we were better off catching them as children. That is, with the exception of polio and whooping cough.
I remember the school shutdown for some six to eight weeks during the polio epidemic of the early 1950s. As an extra precaution we weren’t supposed to play with one another, so we spent all day whizzing past each other on our scooters. Yeah… there were some bruised and bleeding knees came out of that one. 🙂
The schools closed in 1947 when I caught polio in the last great epidemic, and again in 1953 when June Opie got polio from the failed vaccine, Salk? and spent the rest of her life in an iron lung.
The three drops on the tongue polio vaccine was available in my first year of teaching in 1962.
FYI….
you’re welcome. 🙂
Thanks Rosemary…for sharing that link…
Another doc…if you’re so inclined…
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/whitepapers/ICAN%20Reply%20-%20December%2031%2C%202018.pdf
June Opie – a great mind who rose above her trials.
https://corpus.nz/inert-body-alive-page-june-opies/
http://pukeariki.com/Learning-Research/Taranaki-Research-Centre/Taranaki-Stories/Taranaki-Story/id/570/title/over-my-dead-body-the-june-opie-story
When June Opie sailed from New Zealand to England in 1957, she was described by her fellow passengers as ‘aggressively healthy’. Yet within a month she was lying in an iron lung, paralysed except for a single eye-lid. Undaunted, she began her slow recovery from polio, fighting to move just the little finger of one hand.
And I mention Alan Marshall Australian another great mind who triumphed over his polio disability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Marshall_(Australian_author)
I think in Canterbury, right now, that measure should be introduced using the Health Act powers.
“Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.”
Well that’s part of the problem right there, and I referred to this at 2.1.2 .
I struggle with the need to fluoridate all drinking water. To me it makes no sense when tooth decay is not caused by lack of fluoride.
Yes I do agree our climate is changing, the sun is more intense than 20 or even 10 years ago, and that we definitely need to urgently seek and implement ways to try and mitigate the effects. (Although I fear rampant capitalism will see our ultimate doom as a species.)
I exercised discretion when it came to my children’s immuisations, which is not to say I didn’t have them vaccinated. As I mentioned a few days ago….MMR was very new and there were anecdotal cases of serious adverse events (NOT autism…!!!) which made a few folk understandably nervous. Very frustrating that with the release of MMR the old single measles jab became unavailable…even if we were willing to pay. When the Hep B vaccine was being given to newborns there were concerns from some groups. I asked a GP if my 18 month old needed the jab, and was told there was no way he was going to catch Hep B…he wasn’t in the at- risk group. So why the mass vaccination program if the disease is a risk for only specific sections of the population?
I’ve have tried (and failed) to find the official register of significant averse effects from vaccinations…..where is it?
Calling people ‘nutbars’ and ‘murderers’ for vaccine hesitancy is merely going to widen the divide.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
And as Nikki Turner from the mysterious (and in part funded by the drug companies http://www.immune.org.nz/sites/default/files/IMACSponsorweblistAugust2018.pdf) said…”I don’t think we should ignore the anti-vaccination lobby but I think we should put it into context.
“It is a very small percentage of the New Zealand population.
“We need to understand it and respond to it, and definitely put more resources and thinking into it, but it is a very small part of why we are not getting high immunisation coverage rates.”
Dr Turner said there were other problems with delivering immunisations, beyond what she called vaccine hesitancy, and New Zealand would be better off dealing with those.”
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384112/hospital-bosses-want-anti-anti-vax-campaign
Now it would be manifestly unreasonable to expect a shock jock media personality to actually take a calming breath or two and actually do some proper research…or even check with the head honcho from IMAC before launching into their lynch mob rousing speech…but I’d expect most of the commentators here to at least keep a tiny portion of their minds ajar.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
I would have agreed with you say… 20 years ago but not any more.
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers. Respect and open conversations do not work with many of these people. Their anti-ness has become ideological to the point of religious fervour. To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.
It is time for them to be called out for what they are – fools. Fools who are putting their children’s – and other people’s children’s – health and a viable future in serious jeopardy.
“To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.”
Is it possible for you to provide a link or two as examples of this? I am seriously interested.
And again….according to the IMAC chief, so called ‘anti-vaxxers’ are a very small part of why we are not getting high rates of immunisation coverage.
So…it may very well be the the anti- vax brigade are as angry/shouty/hate- speechy as the pro- vax lynch mob….but they are not having the effect on immunisation rates you seem to think they are.
According to the experts. 😉
Anne @ 2.1.4.2.1
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers.
This is worth a read regarding public uptake of vaccination in Europe if you have the time.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-018-5103-8
The attacks are becoming more desperate and transparent by the day…
Annes endorsememt of garners hate speech is the lowest of todays misinformed and damagingly ignorant statements…
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
The article is one of the most balanced I’ve read in ‘mainstream’, and the author contributes to what is an insightful comments section…
Warning:
For the misinformed, underinformed and ignorant, this article could cause some problems…to what you ‘think you know’…
Well. One Two…thanks for just about ruining our mince and noodle dinner.
What a powerful piece of work, and for those who can spare the time the Ted Talk is totally engrossing.
This should be turning the whole vaccine debate inside out…but as the Doctor Benn says…the whole issue has become so polarised that each side will try and use the findings to give credibility to their stubbornly held point of view. And the very, very real potential benefits of accepting the findings and changing the way we vaccinate will be lost.
Thank you One Two for posting this.
No worries, Rosemary…It was really for people such as yourself…it’s not my role to change anyone’s views…that’s an individual choice to expand…
I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…
Some of the comment links are also probable triggers for folks here…
For the time being I’ll limit any linking, as per my comments a few days ago…I’m a long way over this discussion…except to call out those who publish and/or endorse violent hate speech…
The progapanda levels are a signal the establishment has completely lost the decades long control, and they know it…
Real science , research, knowledge and thinking has moved on…people are no longer kept in the dark (unless they willingly choose to be)…and in a few years from now…it will all be over…
Have a good evening…hope you recoverd the meal alright…
‘I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…”
I had to check with a scientist the credibility of The Conversation (because I have trust issues ) and was assured that it was ‘… usually OK…much better than the Guardian’.
The comments section I’m going to read right now.
Passionate commitment to one’s point of view/beliefs/ideology is all very well if tempered with an open mind and respect for the commitment of the opposition…blind adherence and all that.
How many more deaths before we can be brave enough to put our dogmatism aside?
Thanks again.
On the subject of vaccination , TC is about as low level as it gets. If you have time…brave some of the other articles over the years…it’s likely that you will pick up the themes and discourse TC publishes…
Often comment sections would mirror the majority on todays thread, here, and then the comments gets closed off…as soon as a counter or two is visible…it is a consistent form of censorship…perhaps due to lack of mods available…but it is an observable occurrence…
I would say that spending prescious time reading anti-scientific and outdated articles about research which only represents established industry position…can be unhealthy…but you’re definitely up to it should you choose to…there is years worth of it on TC…
The piece I linked to, I’ve had to read multiple times in appreciation of the author and her professional yet honest demeanour within the article, as well as her responses in the comments section…gold nuggets can be found…
I’ve been reading through the linked material in comments as some of the linked material and commentary was new for me…I will also watch the ted talk…perhaps TC should leave comments sections open on this subject…
To your question. Many, many magnitudes more than the total global deaths from measles in developed nations…over the past 50 years…
Be well…and you’re welcome…
Thanks for the read. AFAIK the live polio vaccine, which was on the immunisation schedule many years ago was changed to the dead polio vaccine after a couple of incidents where mothers got the disease after immunising their children.
I had read many years ago about the benefits of live vaccines, but can’t remember where. Also, about the difference in immunity robustness from people who had the vaccine compared to those who had recovered from the disease. The immune system was much stronger, and the article/paper was discussing the possibility of the body responding with changes to the respiratory system, or mucous membranes, that is not achieved with vaccinations. Sorry, I can’t remember more, it was a while ago.
Hi Molly…
Salk was to have said the live polio vaccine was responsible for +/- 100% of polio…it was replaced but the damage was done…
The Cutter Incident
With regards to live vaccines and the article in particular…there is also large archives of research of contraindictions resulting from live vaccines, the manufaturing, storage and transport problems including the adjuvants required (similar to attenuated vaccines) which are also problematic…
I linked the article as it is one of the most balanced I’ve encountered in a mainstream web site…and can be understood and progressed from by those who are interested…
Was a good read One Two, and worth the couple of minutes it took to do so.
My children are grown so the vaccination issue is one I don’t look into much anymore. But I am always surprised by the vitriol expressed on this issue, and the calls for mandatory medication. This could be a result of the medium that allows for collective censure, which brings out the bully in all of us, but I can’t remember it being that divisive twenty years ago.
Thanks, Molly…
It certainly is testament to the psychological abuse pushed repeatedly at the public, setting parents against eachother, children against eachother as well as children against their own parents…
It has been ramped up to levels which have essentially exposed vaccine science for what it always was…something masquerading as science…there is a word for that…
The aggressive campaigns through corporate media leading to poorly advised and punitive legislations, have created the situation you describe…
Hostile is an understatement…all aimed in the the wrong directions…
Couldn’t help myself and downloaded Bandim’s pdf. Already at Page 30.
Got to drop off my son at 5.30 am, so should really put it down…
Yes I’ve been working through badim also…
But have put it down in favour of another pdf
Please let me know if the link works…Rosemary may also be interested…link should go direct to document download…
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/whitepapers/ICAN%20Reply%20-%20December%2031%2C%202018.pdf
Your link cites a study suggesting that, while the DTAP vaccine protects against infection from those three bacteria, it makes children more susceptible to dying from other causes. If this were true, it would certainly concerning however..
It was published in a rather obscure journal. This by itself doesn’t give us an indicator of the quality of the paper, but if we really had data that showed us there was a concern with the DTaP vaccine, an important part of the childhood vaccine schedules worldwide, it should have been published in a higher quality journal.
The study looks at the mortality rate after the vaccine used at that time, which contained the whole-cell version of pertussis. That vaccine was pulled from the market and replaced with an acellular version. Reasons for changing the vaccines are complex, but it was partially because of the higher rate of minor adverse events with the wP version of the pertussis vaccine. There is no evidence I am aware of that the wP version caused more deaths than the current aP version.
The study only examined 1057 children, which is a tiny number in any epidemiological study that tries to compare one group to another to examine a potential effect. Many case control studies that examine vaccine effects (either effectiveness or adverse events) use 100,000 to several million patients and there’s certainly far more data on this vaccine available now at medicine regulators around the world.
The number of deaths that was used in the study was tiny, sometimes only 1 death in a population group (like female unvaccinated children). Because they used such small numbers, unintentional bias could occur.
The deaths were not categorized and may have absolutely nothing to do with vaccination. With such small numbers analyzed, it’s possible that unrelated mortality could have given results that could change dramatically with just a handful of unrelated deaths.
Ironically, the study showed that there was decreased mortality with the children who received oral polio vaccine (separate from the DTP vaccine). If we accept this statistically suspect small sample as unbiased (which we can’t), the overall results are positive with a full vaccination.
This leads me a critical point in the vaccine debate that those critical of vaccination cherry-pick studies that support beliefs about vaccine safety, the antithesis of real science. If we look at larger studies more broadly, what can we say about the safety profile of the DTaP vaccine?
There’s a Danish study that included over 805,000 children looking at various outcomes to getting multiple antigen vaccines, such as DTP or DTaP, came to this conclusion:
‘… results do not support the hypotheses that multiple-antigen vaccines or aggregated vaccine exposure increase the risk of non-targeted infectious disease hospitalization.”
In a meta-review, considered by many as the pinnacle of high quality scientific research hierarchy, which included over 183,000 participants in 58 different trials, the authors concluded that,
‘..Acellular vaccines have fewer adverse effects than whole-cell vaccines for the primary series as well as for booster doses.’
The authors found no vaccine related mortality for either vaccine, which completely contradicts the belief about the lack of safety of the DTaP vaccine.
Hviid A, Wohlfahrt J, Stellfeld M, Melbye M. Childhood vaccination and nontargeted infectious disease hospitalization. JAMA. 2005 Aug 10;294(6):699-705. PubMed PMID: 16091572.
Mogensen SW, Andersen A, Rodrigues A, Benn CS, Aaby P. The Introduction of Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Oral Polio Vaccine Among Young Infants in an Urban African Community: A Natural Experiment. EBioMedicine. 2017 Mar;17:192-198. doi: 10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.01.041. Epub 2017 Feb 1. PubMed PMID: 28188123; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5360569.
Zhang L, Prietsch SO, Axelsson I, Halperin SA. Acellular vaccines for preventing whooping cough in children. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2014 Sep 17;(9):CD001478. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD001478.pub6. Review. PubMed
Mullet, good on you for having a genuine go at contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way…
I am responding as a show of appreciation for that comment…
Comments I’ve posted, yesterday and today provide ample starting points for those who are interested and were able to pick up on them…as such I am not going to address the mesh of points you attempted to raise…
Except these few:
* You, nor anyone in the entire human populace is aware of ‘the entire volume of research’ let alone map it all out…so absolutely…you are not aware of ‘evidence’…same applies to any individual or agency who uses that deceptively misleading statement
* Published in a ‘big journal’ is subjective speculation on your part , and your part only. It transparently leads into the next dot points in effort to create a sense of dismissive minimizing of the research team, the report and the findings
* Cherry picking is your projection and does not alter the validity of the findings in the 190 page report, that you’ve actually cherry picked data from in an attempt to further dismiss and minimize the research findings
* The study reported positive and negative outcomes from the research, and you seek to trivialise all findings claiming ‘size bias’ without referencing the duration of the researched study
Ironically, vaccine science and corporate testing protocols and regulatory licensure have achieved approval to market, including recommended schedule vaccines using highly dubious (documented) tactics and inferior ‘research protocols’ from smaller test cohorts alongside truncated , fast tracked timelines
* Danish studies including the link you posted to last week, have a track record of corporate sponsored ‘research’ becoming reference studies of the vaccine science industry, used ad nauseum by vaccine advertising dependant journals and media outlets
It seems you have more to offer the discussion, than the usual remarks and name calling would suggest…
Join the anti-brigade and travel the world! Be like another Jordan Peterson; looking long-suffering and devoting your life to telling other people that what they think is wrong and that you have superior enlightenment; because.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/books/18-02-2019/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fuck-about-jordan-b-peterson/
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Charles Spurgeon
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/
The power and wisdom from a group of women in simpatico can trounce the findings of any scientist/s. (The same goes for men.) – Quote, Me.
Book: The Poisoned Needle
Well, if you come from a broken home with nothing but shitty role models you might understand the attraction of a man who gives you straight up good advice. The demonisation of Peterson, as some of his views are nonsensical, detract from the fact he’s put a lot of people’s lives back on track.
And the left can’t stand it. He doesn’t preach but it’s based in biblical teaching. He explains why. They don’t care. Utterly shitty people protesting just to protest, you find them at every protest, just wankers looking for excitement in their meaningless lives.
Society, instead of learning what they can from all this, taking the good, made blanket statements of condemnation and all we learned is there’s a lot of judgmental assholes out there prepared to lie and distort things to get their column inches.
It’s trendy to hate Peterson, and banal.
Maybe people think the public will think they’re clever if they one up an intellectual.
you need to watch his talks, not listen to the attention clamoring press.
I’m waiting for the first lawsuits by the kids of
anti-vaxxerspro-plaguers (good point JS). Suing their parents after they catch a fully preventable disease because their parents refused to get them vaccinated.It’ll probably be someone like this dude …
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/health/measles-josh-nerius/index.html
… or this one.
https://www.sciencealert.com/oregon-parents-refuse-further-vaccination-after-their-child-nearly-dies-from-tetanus
“110,000 children dying annually from now preventable disease!”
These figures need to be put into context, eg:
Five million children under the age of five, dying from preventable hunger
Yet hunger is not the context here. Because there is other bad shit happening, it does not minimise the stupidity of playing russian roulette with a child’s life.
Yes.
But don’t use random facts without context – unlinked to source – and consider it persuasive argument.
It was a parody of the RNZ headline (a source didn’t go with the style).
It is the most appropriate source for anyone interested in the facts. Someone wih your views ought to know these facts which can then be contrasted with any risk of an adverse effect. Caring and committed child health professionals throughout the world, well appraised with the facts, are entirely convinced by the weight of evidence. Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?
World Health Organisation – not very random.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles
Interesting that you know what my views are – since I haven’t articulated them on this thread…
You have such faith in a medical system and drug clinical trials that allows you to accept all information without question. Some ask questions anyway.
Yes you have – and now you have again.
I have faith in the scientific process that utilises qualified people to continually and robustly investigate and test the basis and foundation of knowledge. I trust the motives of people who care for children and I listen carefully to what they say.
For illustration check out the comprehensive and continually expanding list of studies published on the Immunisation Advisory Centre’s website:
http://www.immune.org.nz/research/publications-and-reports
“Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?”
Which anonymous web site?
Not that difficult to find with help of goggle.
I’d like to give another shoutout to Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage for her massive expansion of the National park estate through the Mohikinui River and catchment.
I would also like to give a great big shoutout to all the activists around and in Forest and Bird who campaigned against that dam, squashed those corporate dogs in Meridian, and ensured this great area remains wild and free forever.
For those of you who missed it on tv news,
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/kahurangi-national-park-expanded-area-half-size-auckland?variant=tb_v_1
It includes about 15km of the Mokihinui riverbed, all of the Mokihinui Forks Ecological Area, a large part of the Lyell Range-Radiant Range conservation area and a small part of what remains of North West Nelson Forest Park, most of which became Kahurangi National Park when it was established in 1996.
The Mokihinui addition to Kahurangi National Park is equivalent in size to Abel Tasman and Paparoa National Parks combined and is twice the size of Egmont National Park.
Kahurangi is the country’s second largest park and with the addition of the Mokihinui land, it will increase in size by 14 per cent to 517,335ha. Fiordland National Park, at more than 1,230,000ha, is the largest national park.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12212130
Can’t be too long before there’s a proposal to unite Kahurangi with Abel Tasman National Parks.
Meantime, this is a fine addition, done under Ministerial powers rather than expending legislative time and political capital.
This is great political work from the Minister.
That is bloody good news. I did a couple of long tramps in the Mokinui area back in the 80’s, and they shine bright in my memory.
“Abel Tasman and Kahurangi national parks are now connected by a 169-hectare block of land purchased by the Department of Conservation.”
https://i.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/96599436/land-corridor-connects-abel-tasman-and-kahurangi-national-parks
Not sure why they need to be joined.
Good to increase the national parks.
Having them joined allows for easy species migration.
The ‘corridor’ effect?
I don’t think so. More to keep humans happy.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/science-and-technical/SR34.pdf
6. PROS AND CONS OF CORRIDORS Noss (1987) provided a list of some potential advantages and disadvantages of ecological corridors. The following is an elaboration of his scheme.
33 6.1 Possible Advantages
…
A quick look at the maps shows that AT and Kahurangi NP’s are already very close together; any corridor between the two lies mainly along a relatively short area on the top of the Takaka Hill limestone area, north of the state highway.
From memory most of this area is pretty undeveloped, marginal farmland or regenerating. There are some private dwellings scattered about in the area, but nothing at any scale.
Surely a formal corridor would be feasible, even if it didn’t have the full formal status of a National Park, along with all the restrictions that would imply. Something more like say a Forest Park that permitted existing activities and dwellings, but protected it from further development?
You’re more familiar with the area than I am, would something like that work?
Yeah protection against development is a good reason to protect.
Great news!! Now, we just need to add the Matiri River Valley to the park on its eastern boundary. Oops too late, construction of the hydro scheme is under way. This was one that got the nod from the John Key government – payback to the Talley family for years of National party support.
Lake Matiri is a wildlife refuge and part of Kahurangi NP, the Matiri River Valley was deliberately excluded due to its power generation potential. Despite significant local opposition, the power scheme was consented quite some years ago. The Talley family chose not to make a start (power prices too low?) and recently sold the consent to Pioneer Generation, Talleys still own the land. DOC could have refused the concession due to lack of required reports etc but didn’t. Pressure from above??
.Well done indeed Eugene Thanks Ad. A good post. I see they are leaving the remains of the monster wasp nest in the tree at Hamurana, for fear of poisoning the stream.
Pest control always has fish hooks, but is worth it.
I know there is an issue of scale…but I have dealt to wasp nests by enclosing said structure in a heavy duty plastic bag, tying off the top and cutting the whole caboodle free from it’s anchor. Bag containing wasp nest can then be further contained until inhabitants discorporate. This can be sped up by freezing. Or chemicals.
Of course…the use of a plastic bag might not be acceptable either….oh, life is getting sooo complicated!
Best wasp nest fun I had was three years ago, 3 metres long underground.
Sourced the two entrances at dusk; a deep crack in the clay.
Mixture of diesel and dishwashing liquid.
Match.
Volcano out both ends.
Shoveled clay over top.
Just awesome fun, and neighbourhood improved.
Woulda been even more exciting if there was another undetected entrance that led under the house. Seen that almost happen, not quite under the house but uncomfortably close…
It was at the edge of the forest so we had hose and filled buckets ready for sparks.
Hah! When a neighbour deployed one of those sonic rodent deterrers, our usual non chemical methods of keeping the rat population down in our chook house failed. (The rats moved to our place.) The rats congregating in broad daylight to give us the single digit salute coincided with the failure of a large batch of very hot chili paste to seal properly. We emptied the contents of the bubbling jars down the most used rat runs…..
Back in the day when one could purchase strings of double happy firecrackers….
Surprised to hear those sonic devices even work!
Most animals ,including dogs react the first time they hear them…then ignore them.
Tell me about it. I was developing the ultimate cat collar that warned birds and lizards but not mammals. Didn’t work…
Cats are apex predators. You may as well just euthanise them if you don’t want them to be apex any more.
Humans are apex predators. But I don’t need to kill for food, and nor do domesticated animals. The problem with cats is not killing for food supply so much, as simply killing for fun.
I often wonder if, at some stage, we’d deliberately culled out the ‘cruel’ cats, we’d have a better breed that only killed when hungry.
I’d agree that humans are at the top of the food chain but as far as an apex predator I’d put bears above us. and cats don’t kill for fun, that’s just the human talking. Cats kill vermin that stray in there territory when they not feeding. Cats are cats. I’d suggest people who don’t really understand cats enough to leave them alone instead of dating bits off them and making them carry around fashion accessories, I’d suggest they get a goldfish.
I’d suggest I’m talking to a goldfish.
Do you talk to goldfish often?
They ‘play’ to keep their skills up. You’d need to somehow make them vegan, which would no longer be a cat as such.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88yEF__2xpE
Muscled, black with steel green eye
Swishing through the rye grass
With thoughts of mouse and apple pie
Tail balancing at half-mast
And the mouse police never sleeps
Lying in the cherry tree
Savage bed foot warmer
Of purest feline ancestry
Look out, little furry folk
He’s the all night working cat
Eats but one in every ten
Leaves the others on the mat
And the mouse police never sleeps
Waiting by the cellar door
Window-box town crier
Birth and death registrar
With claws that rake a furrow red
Licensed to mutilate
From warm milk on a lazy day
To dawn patrol on hungry hate
No, the mouse police never sleeps
Climbing on the ivy
Windy roof top weathercock
Warm blooded night on a cold tile
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
…
Songwriters: Ian Anderson
Could we develop a family of cats which are really good mice catchers. That would save me putting down poisoned grain and have mousetraps littering the place. I think the parents have to teach the catching skills, so by careful breeding and initiation procedures, they would be very useful cats and not a disdained predator – they could be as valuable as trained sheep dogs.
Dogs have a lineage of pack hunting and scavenging which made them really suseptable to domestication where as cats are extremely territorial and would savage humans in an instance if it was large enough and it’s a simple as that.
Kind of reminds me of catching bee swarms, except we’d use a milk can. Sit open can below swarm, snip attachment – shoomph – hive in a can.
My encounters with the buzzy things have been during house painting or gardening. I never could see the logic in using chemicals which inevitably infuriate the beasts if one is having to continue working in that area. Hence the containment. Mind you…I don’t have one of those nifty zoot suits.
This wasp nest is right round the trunk of a palm tree and the tree could be damaged. It’s growing on a steep slope, slippery for the blokes, and perhaps slippy if tree died or was removed leaving soil uncovered and exposed to the heavy rain we are getting.
WTF??!!? Somehow I just took it as given that a major government building initiative would include at least include the simplest and basic energy and cost efficient choices. But it seems not …
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/revealed-led-light-bulbs-werent-considered-for-kiwibuild/ar-BBUGzKG?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout
Meanwhile, if there’s any readers with any concern whatsoever for their budget that are still using old-skool incandescent bulbs, get yourself to Bunnings or Mitre 10 today and buy replacement LED bulbs for them. Seriously. Do it now. You can get them for $3 each or less.
You’ll want warm white colour (unless you like your house to look like the alien autopsy room in a bad sci-fi movie), for most fixtures look at the existing incandescent bulb and divide the watts by 10. I’ve pretty much replaced all bulbs that were 100W incandescents when I moved in with 9W LEDs and I’m happy with the how much light there is. If you want more tech details, ask and I’ll write up a bit more.
By the $, a 100W incandescent costs $0.02 to $0.03 per hour, so if it’s on an average of 1 hour per day, that’s $7 to $11 per year. Plus incandescents only have a design life of 1000 hours, by industry agreement. Compare to an LED that costs $3 initially to buy, but pays for itself in electricity savings in 3 to 6 months and should last 10,000 hours or longer.
If you’ve now got compact fluorescents, it’s probably still worth changing to LEDs but the payback time is two or four years. And you get full light instantly instead of the fluorescents taking a minute or so to warm up and get to full brightness.
Flourescent bulbs were a massive gyp. i think I posted on them here some time back. The past is past. LED’s must have improved cos last I looked at them (probably a decade) they were good for a few months then diminished capacity was the norm.
I’m certainly open to new improved LED’s.
Yeah there’s been huge improvements in LEDs over the last decade. But if you’re still suspicious, keep the receipt for a warranty or CGA claim if they do start to fade.
Ten years ago I paid $6 each for the nearly best new tech available to make myself mountain bike lights – 1Watt chips mounted on a 23mm aluminium star module heatsink that put out a then amazing 100 lumens/watt. Nowadays if I were inclined to do the same thing I’d be paying about $1.50 each for 10W chips mounted on a 12mm heatsink that would be up around 140 lumens/watt.
The key to long life in LEDs is keeping the chip from getting hot. They’ve learned a lot about getting better thermal paths from the chip to the heatsink, and in turning more of the electrical energy into light so there’s less heat to dissipate.
Interesting info Andre. I knew LED’s had improved, but for a relatively mature tech that’s pretty impressive.
By complete contrast I recall buying my first red LED almost 50 years ago, it took me ages to save for it, and it barely glowed by today’s standards. But it was worth it just to have this amazing new light source in my own hands.
Dunno that I’d call LEDs relatively mature. There’s still a hell of a lot of space for improvement that nobody has found a way into yet.
For general lighting with acceptable colour rendering, a device that turns 100% of input electrical energy into useful light would put out about 370 lumens/watt. At the moment, the best LEDs top out around 200 lumens/watt.
At the moment, most white LEDs are actually a blue LED shining through a yellow phosphor. So there’s significant light energy lost and heat generated for every blue photon that gets turned into a yellow photon.
The next level of energy efficiency is combining blue LEDs shining through a green phosphor with red LEDs (these are commercially available as Phillips Hue LEDs at horrendous price). There’s less energy lost turning a blue photon into a green one and the necessary red photons are separately emitted at high efficiency by the red LED. Our eyes also respond to red, green and blue light, so a light source that directly emits red, green and blue has an inherent efficiency headstart over a light source that’s blue and yellow. It’s also possible to vary how much energy goes into the red vs the blue-and-green, so the light can change from a cozy yellowish warm light to a brighter daylightish white when wanted.
So that naturally raises the question of producing white light with separate red, green, and blue LEDs. Well, nobody has yet found a way to make high-efficiency green LEDs, so that’s an area with potential.
I think my brain just exploded..
I love it when I do that to people. Can I play with the squidgy bits spattered around? Please?
Be my guest. I don’t need them any more.
I agree. Seems like Twyford wants to make the coalition look like luddites, but more likely he has been knee-capped by whoever made the design decision. Twyford ought to apologise to the public, acknowledge that the govt wants to implement Green house designs, and direct his department to operate accordingly. Bad looks like this will hurt the coalition unless swift remedial action is taken.
That a level of detail that should have been dealt to several pay grades below Twyford. As I see it, there’s even a potential messaging opportunity here for Twyford to push change to a new way of doing thing. Where instead of the initial cost ruling all decisions there’s more attention on whole-of-life costs.
Twyford has screwed completely a policy that was 7 years in the making, thru what … lack of any detail to implement, and has not delivered more than a few spec builders would have supplied to the market in the same period.
To limit to 1st home buyers was a mistake imo, and should the time come that we have any volume, many of today’s 1st buyers will already have moved into a place.
Honestly can anyone expect 1st buyers wait until an appropriate house comes available in their town/city?
Why would people say that not having LED bulbs installed in the homes was a case of lacking in energy efficiency? The sockets for the lights are the same as incandescent if looking at the cheapest and safest. My incandescents cost a little over $1 each and last six months. It would seem that buying LEDs is better, so if I can get warm white, (I dislike the stark white-blue alernative), and am not price-limited I will buy them. But I like having incandescents as spares that I keep in reserve for failures.
Not everyone can get cheap LEDs where they shop. Incandescents should be kept as cheap alternartives while education about the LEDs should continue. That easy calculation of dividing by 10 to find the right level of light when choosing LEDs is handy thanks. Looking at the lumens and other terminology is confusing and people have limited time to moon over products gathering information in the shop.
At my place with 2 adults and 3 kids at home on after dark it was quite feasible for 20 or even 30 bulbs to be lit up. At an average of say 75W each (if they were incandescents) that would be a load of 1.5kW to 2.5 kw, at peak time. and maybe 3 to 5 kWhr per day just for lighting.
Swap those to LED and it’s around 0.2 to 0.3 kw lighting load at peak time, and less than 1 kWhr per day usage for lighting.
How is that difference not an energy efficiency issue?
Furthermore in a new build you can design the lighting around the characteristics of LED lighting and the way LEDs are more directional. LEDs also don’t generate enough heat to risk starting fires if something like insulation or wood is too close. The insulation issue can be a big one, it’s surprising how much warmth can get lost through old-skool ceiling downlight fixtures that have to have the insulation set back quite a distance.
Eric the ‘ripper’…Owen Glenn,NZ taxpayer,anyone who had the misfortune to deal with him,it would seem.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/eric-watsons-cullen-group-avoided-51-million-in-tax-high-court-confirms?variant=tb_v_2
Cullen Group? Is that a deliberate thumb-to-the nose cheeky go at Sir Mike the Upright and exemplar of Austerity and Probity?
No.He has used that name for his investment companies for yonks.
Michael Cullen has been involved with finance for yonks. Just to refresh us on old but important history:
When the Prime Minister, David Lange, attempted to limit the influence Douglas had on the government’s direction, Cullen became involved on Lange’s side. After Labour’s re-election in 1987, Cullen was made Associate Minister of Finance (an attempt by Lange to provide an anti-reform counterbalance to the radical Douglas) and Minister of Social Welfare (an attempt to limit the impact of the reforms in that area).
Eventually, Douglas was forced to resign, but a month later the political controversies around the dispute prompted the resignation of Lange himself. Douglas was succeeded as Finance Minister by David Caygill, one of his allies (albeit a considerably less radical one). Cullen was made Associate Minister of Health, again to reduce the effect of reforms on that sector.
When Labour lost the 1990 election (something attributed by many people to public anger at Douglas’ reforms, and disarray within the Labour Party), Cullen returned to being Labour’s spokesperson on social welfare. The following year, he replaced David Caygill as the party’s chief finance spokesperson…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cullen_(politician)
Watson founded Cullen Investments in 1995.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Watson_(businessman)
Watson owned Westbury Stud Karaka…’Cullen to stand at Westbury Stud in the spring’2001.
Cullen was foaled at Segenhoe Stud in Australia in 1996.
Eric the Ripper has a good ring to it, he and Hotchin towelled up a few investors here in NZ and even managed to get Sir Owen Glenn over a barrell. Karma is a bitch isn’t it.
Their was one thing that was missing from this report.
The IRD, in 2002, approved the scheme. They gave an opinion that it was an Approved Issuer and that the 2% was the correct rate.
The in 2010 the reversed their opinion. That, unfortunately is something the IRD do quite commonly. The effect is that people who relied on the opinion given by the IRD find, much later on, that they have changed their mind and claim taxes and penalties for something they said was fine.
I have no objection to them changing their view. However I don’t believe they should be able to backdate the change.
It is rather like them dropping the blood alcohol limit from 80 to 50 and then fining everyone who was measured at a level between 50 and 80 at a time when that was quite legal.
It is, in practice, passing a retrospective law.
ex National P.M not short of a $!
‘Shipley also invests US$50,000 in Richina. According to numbers quoted by Richard Yan during the court case, Shipley’s investment in the Chinese company could now potentially be worth US$14 million ($22 million), on paper at least.’
Reading this,it seems very clear what was going on here.There is a name for it that begins with F.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12210975
female
fortitude
felony
fandangle
flaccid
fart
finagle
fact-finding
foolishness
That’s my stream of consciousness thinking – the f’s that came to mind.
Fraud
Feasting
Festering
Fuckingcorrupt.
Freemarket
Favoured few find fabulous free funds falling fulsomely forever
You win the chocolate fish today.
Here’s a couple of interesting articles on insurance, or not being able to get insurance in specific areas due to risk from natural disasters or the result of CC.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384579/iag-turning-down-new-property-insurance-in-wellington-region
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-13/climate-data-reveals-australias-worst-affected-regions/10892710
Now remind me of what the role of the former State Insurance was prior to it being sold and what the then muppets said about the market is always right as there is no need to have a Government own/ backed insurance company.
I’m a little bit surprised that the IAG can 50% of the market share in Wellington and if IAG is prepared to do this to Wellington, then what does this say IRT other parts of the country that are at risk from earthquakes and volcanic eruptions?
opening books
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1105553742462676992
At a briefing on the new indictments Tuesday, Andrew Lelling, a U.S. attorney for Massachusetts, said that some parents paid up to $6.5 million “to guarantee admission” for their children to elite colleges. He said that a total of 33 parents have been charged.
“There will not be a separate admissions system for the wealthy. And there will not be a separate criminal justice system, either,” Lelling said.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/12/dozens-indicted-alleged-massive-case-admissions-fraud
The only thing I want to go to California for:
https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/destinations/2019/03/11/california-super-bloom-brings-wildflowers-desert/3133317002/
There’s something magic about a desert suddenly blooming. Enjoy.
Nice WTB – I might refresh a couple of pots with those orange Californian poppies before winter hits.
How about we ditch the lawnmower and plant a range of pasture grasses and flowers instead which wouldgrow unhindered and as the season changes so do the different species?
Seems strange that we spend so much time mowing stuff and annoying the suburbians.
Pro-life my arse.
I can’t quite put in word how much i despise these fucking forced birthers and how much i despite doctors that would let a women develop a sepsis before ‘aborting’ the rotting fetus she carries cause ‘heartbeat’.
https://rewire.news/article/2019/03/07/not-dead-enough-public-hospitals-deny-life-saving-abortion-care-to-people-in-need/
“In one case, a patient who had suffered cardiac arrest shortly before getting pregnant did not meet the hospital’s threshold for life endangerment and was unable to afford to travel and pay for an abortion at the nearest hospital that would see her, about four hours away. She ended up miscarrying in her second trimester. In another case, a patient who was dying from metastatic cancer needed abortion care. The hospital took so long to deliberate, she miscarried too.
“Our conversation should have been like, ‘How can we help you heal and meet whatever your goals are in this terrible situation’, and not about this stupid law,” the doctor said.
“My hands are tied,” she continued. “I can’t do what’s right for the patient.””
yes one can keep roe vs wade ‘legal’ yet put up so many ‘trap’ laws that effectively even a women dying of a septic pregnancy will not get the care she needs. Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women. I can’t find other reasons then hate disguised as ‘won’t no one think of the babies’ cause no, you are not fucking thinking of the baby – born or unborn – and you certainly don’t care about the ‘host’ aka the mothers. (hosts – https://www.google.com/search?q=pregnant+women+are+hosts&oq=pregnant+women+are+hosts&aqs=chrome..69i57.4072j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 )
Well I’m pro choice because arguably the fetus is apart of the woman.
That’s why in my opinion consent is more important than pro choice. The age of legal consent should be again, and this is my opinion, but it should be 21 – 25 years old to account for brain development and basically there’s no marked improvement in income until you’re a graduate.
Having to continue carrying a baby that is dead inside you, is one of the joys that the ethical society force on some unfortunate women. It’s not a healthy situation for her, and negates any suggestion that women and their fertility role is respected by society and those in power. A hero – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
What names do others know of who have championed women in their fertility burden?
F$%ken weirdos ?
“Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women.”
Yes there are circumstances in which abortion is the only humane option. But I encourage you to watch this. To the end.
Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.
So no,
if you read the article above you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain, unable to walk, with fever and because they are not yet ‘actively’ dying do not get the health care they need and should be entitled too.
But maybe you missed the part that i put in quotes ‘ had miscarriages in the second trimester’ cause obviously it is more important for the women to suffer some more month then give them the care they need.
So take your preacher / ob gyn and shove him where its dark. Cause this guy will never be denied healthcare, he will never be left to fester with a dead fetus until he ‘actively is dying’ and he will never have to make the choice of having an abortion at an early stage or when you are told that your child that you wanted is growing with a brain outside the skull or has not lungs and that you can’t have an abortion cause hey, women, you are a host, and as such you would have no issues birthing this child and then watch it die.
Pro life my ass. Forced birth. Once born, pull yerself up by your bootstrap child.
‘…you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain…”
So why the rant about abortion? The issue you are raising is a valid health issue, not necessarily connected to access to abortions.
“Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.”
That’s rather closed minded. He has performed thousands of abortions, and is describing the utter inhumanity if the process. It is chilling.
So happy, bye bye secondary tax 🙂 I work two jobs so am thrilled about this.
Thanks government, this was one of the reasons I gave my party vote to Labour last election 🙂
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1903/S00088/an-end-to-unnecessary-secondary-tax.htm
I like this one…
I’m running on 8% kiwisaver at present, and getting some quite reasonable returns. I wouldn’t mind kicking that up as everything is automatic and way less hassle than dealing with other investments on an ongoing basis. Essentially automatic payments really waste my personal time when they come out of my working account. It doesn’t take much to suddenly be providing the bank with extra revenue with fees. And even worse, I get people trying to ring me when I’m coding which is REALLY expensive.
Which is why I’ve pretty well eliminated most of automatic payments including those to other investment funds. Paying as part of my PAYE is way easier which is now the only way I do it. Other bills just get paid when I have a few spare minutes on my phone.
But I would like to push a bit more into investments. It’d be nice to have a 12% or 15%. But 10% is better than 8%
Also I’m not planning on stopping work (or riding my e-bike to work) unless I really really have to. I’m nearly 60 now and still coding well. Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.
😈
“Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.”
🙂
Careful tho’ @ lprent – things like experience and proven record can often account for sweat FA these days
until you turn out to be tho only one who can talk to the machine. #consultancyrates
I have tended to rely less on experience and track records than on companies being desperate to get their projects out of the door.
Most jobs that I have had in programming for the last couple of decades has been after whoever I went to work for had an unfortunate problem of some kind caused by mismanagement of their projects in their staffing, documentation, design, or implementation and needing someone to recover it.
i am so pleased about it. My shop girl studies, works for me and has a few other side digs in summer when the tourist come. I am so pleased for her that she does not have to pay more taxes on her income now then Gareth Morgan.
This is a good inclusion as well:
“- exempt directly funded disability support payments from income tax”
The utterances of Molyneux, Southern and Peterson seem benign compared to the pro-plague propaganda this fucking terrorist is spreading.
https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1105025466992230400
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/03/australian-blogger-bringing-dangerous-anti-vax-tour-to-nz.html
Seems an attention getter, without having to strip, but it really is part of a porn movement to look at me, I’m good looking and achieving celebrity and you can be like me. Tell people things that make them think, or feel they have gone through the motions.
It’s mental gym here folks, worry about my subject, and don’t waste your energies on the rest of life, which is confusing and debilitating to the mind. Stay with us and reeelaaax your mind, and together we will solve your problems. Half the things you worry about don’t happen. You can have twice as much fun in your life if you just stop worrying about finding the truth and just listen to us; listen to our Foundation; The Foundation of Life.
Watch out for that in your letterbox and on line soon. Someone will pick up on that to sell something to the peeps.
She’s a con artist making big biccies out of gullible parents.
http://morganfoundation.org.nz/capital-gains-tax-political-stunt-no-economics-rationale
Gareth Morgan outlines the arguments against CGT far more cogently than I have done.
poor thing, still trying to get away from tax faster then anyone can say boo.
Can’t have Gareth Morgan pay taxes. Now that would upset the tax evader.
Poor thing, did no one tell him that he would have to pay nothing if he is not selling his assets:? Oh that is how he made his money in the first place? Sucks to be him.
I think you should address the arguments that Morgan puts up if you wish to have any credibility. Poking fun at Morgan himself seems pretty futile.
Morgan is actually proposing a far more radical change to taxing wealth that is unavoidable.
http://morganfoundation.org.nz/capital-gains-tax-political-stunt-no-economics-rationale/ Thanks mikesh
Gareth writes:
“The Economist advocates, as do I, that such transaction taxes be removed and instead annual levies be applied.
This inclusion of taxation upon all income to capital (not just homes but all non-financial capital) properly integrated into the current income tax regime…”
I don’t know what that means. Annual levies? Does that mean like higher Rates?
I have sought an answer for this but does anyone know how this would be better than CGT?
Morgan is not entirely clear on what he means by “annual levies”, but I think he means the tax on imputed rentals. Perhaps The Economixt sees the lack of these as a possible justification for capital gains taxes, but thinks it would be better to apply them on a regular basis rather than as lump sum tax when the property is sold.
Morgan provides a link to the Economist article but it’s behind a paywall. However the headline indicates that what the Economist wanted to replace was stamp duty on the sale of a property.
That would be good – a CGT of reasonable percentage on commercial and rented properties. Then stamp duty of a small percentage on all properties.
Two bites at a luscious cherry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you lachrymose speculators. (I thought I would throw in a new word to the stewpot with the so many others used in the debate about taxes on housing.)
I think you are misunderstanding the comments. The Economist was writing about the British situation, and recommending that their stamp duty be abandoned, and replaced by an annual payment of some sort. Without having access to the Economist article I cannot say what the nature of that annual payment would be.
This happened middle of Feb. It illustrates attitudes that many on this blog have never come across but shows up many in our culture as having a lack of maturity and respect in attitudes to women. And that might apply to women as well, though it is apparently mainly men who replied.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/02/show-some-respect-finnish-woman-s-nz-farming-ad-draws-scores-of-gross-comments.html
A woman complained that there were’nt jobs available to locals. If it was her personally, she should have put up her own advert. If it was general she should have not butted in, it isn’t the Finnish woman’s fault and it was just bad-mouthing her instead of the politician who should be controlling foreign workers. But she iwould be unlikely to have put her thoughts to the polly, most NZs just vent, full of sour air.
And the men who used the opportunity to make remarks that were sleazy or suggestive, that is so childish. They have no awareness of how to communicate in a public place, as on-line sites are, and that shows lack of maturity too. I wonder where these men learned their attitudes towards women? In the home? Is it being passed on down the generations in some farm families? And the old refrain – just having a joke, some people have no sense of humour.