Some people’s ideas are genocide and slavery. They don’t want to win a debate, they just want to be listed on the exchange. They don’t have ideas, as such. They have intentions. The idea is a seat at the table.
…
People do not have a right to a platform for their ideas. People do not have the right to a debate. However, people do have a right to not have to hear that their worth as human beings, their very existence in society, is something that is up for debate.
…
A debate must be in good faith. Sometimes it is inappropriate to have a debate against someone who's intentions are not in good faith. Sometimes you have to 'change the locks'. Sometimes it becomes necessary to simply say, “What you believe is that some people have less worth than other people, and I think that is an indecent position to take. As a result, there are no details you can present within that framework that interest me in the slightest, and I don’t see any point in any debate about those details.”
um..!..correct me if i'm wrong – but i recall you arguing here for me to be shut down for 'not debating in good faith'..
which is why the first line on this excerpt you chose to link to..jumped out at me..
'A debate must be in good faith. Sometimes it is inappropriate to have a debate against someone who's intentions are not in good faith. Sometimes you have to 'change the locks'
and it does seem to me that looking at the excerpts you chose to highlight..that you are arguing for the censorship – of the likes of me..
Just no point in continuing a discussion with someone who does not understand words like 'censorship'. I trust others to have enough nous to make sense of what is already there.
It is not compulsory to answer questions posed by other commenters, least in OM. You know this and do it yourself, from time to time. Rather than displaying your dissatisfaction with Sacha’s reason for “cutting and running” from you, you may want to consider a different response or just leave it and move on and enjoy your time in the sun at a bach in Raglan. I know what I’d do 😉
I apologise for misreading “a beach near raglan” as “a bach at Raglan”. Very sloppy of me.
Even though a commenter may intend to start a “discussion topic”, and even if they happen to post the “first post of the day”, they may feel it is an exercise in futility to engage with another commenter on that topic for various reasons. A wise thing to do is to politely state the reason(s) and not engage further. Or they may simply ignore the other commenter. All quite civil and freedom of speech does allow to not engage. Take it or leave it, Phil.
cd you plse define/clarify for me what exactly a 'bad faith argument' is..
and perhaps as further clarification/an example – you could apply those definitions to the animal-rights arguments i present(ed)..
and perhaps tell me why you thought you had the grounds to accuse me of 'bad faith' arguing at that time..?
and if an argument is challenging to the listener – as clearly mine were to/for you – do they morph into 'bad faith' arguments..?
and – as explanation – my reasons for opposing such subjective censorship – is because it is so just that – 'subjective'..
and this makes it wide open to abuse/to shutting down issues you don't want discussed/to silencing people you don't 'like'..for whatever tenuous reasons…
and because it is so open to abuse – this is why it must not be countenanced..
and really – the best-ever takedown of authoritarianism has to be cartman..
I find when opposing one using bad faith arguments as you laid out, despite best intentions, it's frequently easier to just show where they are wrong and leave it to the ether. The problems arise when one tries to counter the shifting goalposts that often come when debating a BFA, and as we know from here, come they do… Along with the insults and straw men and because you've written this it must mean you believe this type of foolery.
I like how you have practiced what you preached and not got involved here. A fine example.
I can't stand the 'both sides' debate – (usually made by those with privilege imo) – for the reasons stated in the article linked to above
Let's state the obvious: People who intend to deliberately harm others lie to do so. They do so instrumentally, because lies are a useful tool. They debate instrumentally, for the same reason. They equivocate their lies as equal to the truth for the same reason.
Saying ‘both sides are the same,’ when one side is a lie and the other the truth, always promotes the lie and degrades the truth. Thus, attempts to create contexts in which both sides are essentially just opposite views of entirely equal value should always be understood as attempts to disguise a lie.
Put it another way: A ‘both sides are the same’ argument is never a neutral position. It is a false front disguising itself as a neutral position, and is intended, either with conscious intentionality or unconscious desire for comfortable ignorance, to elevate a lie.
That quote mm is spot on and it happens almost on a daily basis these days.
The best example though has been the 'two sides' theory of Climate Change. There was never two sides. There was the truth and there were the lies. It should not be forgotten that some 10 or so years ago, the liars went so far as to hack into a prominent British scientist's (there might have been more than one) emails and altered figures to make it look like the material contained was faulty and the scientist(s) incompetent.
And for years the gullible and ignorant MSM around the world went along with the two-side theory and must take a large dose of the blame for the delay in forcing the necessary changes required to save life on Earth.
Do you have a link for that, Anne? We wouldn't want people to think you were arguing in bad faith in a discussion about "bad faith arguments".
[speaking of bad faith, consider this a warning that if you continue to poke at and bait commenters you’ll get another ban. I can see no reason at all for questioning Anne’s good faith here. By all means ask for more information from her, but taking a potshot at the same time is going to cause problems – weka]
You made the assertion, Anne. Hence, it's not my job to back your claim. My understanding is (on this site) it's yours – i.e. those who make an assertion.
Oh great! You are bogged down again by pedantic nitpickery and thus missing (again!) the main message of Anne’s comment @ 1.2.1, which was a direct response to marty mars @ 1.2. In fact, you kinda prove their point, which I find most ironic but not too surprising.
That is the one. Thanks Incognito. I couldn't recall the details off the top of my head.
Poor little TC. It's gonna take him a long time to absorb all of that material so we can expect not to hear from him for a while. Troubling to think that someone who sold himself as a Green supporter and voter in times past didn't know what I was talking about. 😉
Oh great! You are bogged down again by pedantic nitpickery and thus missing (again!) the main message of Anne’s comment @ 1.2.1, which was a direct response to marty mars @ 1.2. In fact, you kinda prove their point, which I find most ironic but not too surprising.
Not at all.
It's not that I didn't get the gist of her comment. It's what you claimed to merely be "pedantic nitpickery" which was the point I was highlighting (albeit indirectly) to Anne. And which weakened the validity of her comment.
While there was altering via context, there was no altering of figures (by the hackers) as Anne claimed. Placing the faith of her argument in question in a discussion about bad faith arguments.
I see, you are doubling down on the nitpickery and questioning the good faith of Anne’s comment. Way to go, champ. Perhaps you may want to re-read the whole thread and then go back up the thread and comment on the gist or have you sunk too deep into death by detail dump.
Of course I'm doubling down. Why wouldn't I be? It was the point I was making. And the reason I posted it. Anne stating they altered figures brought the good faith of her comment into question.
[Because you had been warned by weka about questioning Anne’s good faith here. By doubling down, you show that you, in fact, are acting in bad faith. In addition, you have made zero useful contribution today in any thread on this site and your dull drudgery is getting tedious. Take the rest of the day off – Incognito]
While there was altering via context, there was no altering of figures (by the hackers) as Anne claimed.
Oh, so it was some of the wording that was altered not the figures. Same result. The documents were mischievously changed to make it look like the scientists were incompetent.
I may not have recalled the details exactly but I do remember the CC deniers vociferously accusing the scientists of misinformation.
Unfortunately the media were remiss in giving the outcome of the several inquiries by British, European and American agencies the same level of prominence as the original accusations which, in itself, was an example of irresponsible media coverage.
Thanks TC for affording my and Marty Mar's commentaries the prominence they would not otherwise have received.
And here is a quote from the text supplied by Incognito @ 1217pm to back up my claims:
Concerns about the media's role in promoting early allegations while also minimising later coverage exonerating the scientists were raised by journalists and policy experts. Historian Spencer R. Weart of the American Institute of Physics said the incident was unprecedented in the history of science, having "never before seen a set of people accuse an entire community of scientists of deliberate deception and other professional malfeasance". The United States National Academy of Sciences expressed concern and condemned what they called "political assaults on scientists and climate scientists in particular".
Typical ‘bad faith’ activity, much like National's persistent Dirty Politics tactics.
Misrepresentation is another bad faith activity – for example, someone asserting they are “more left than most“, while only referring to Prime Minister Ardern on a first name basis
Now now kids! Go to your corners. And for homework, you're expected to determine what sort of polygon you all belong to. I want it on my desk first thing in the morning!
(We've got the inspector coming and our funding depends on it)
Article 49. Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.
ISTANBUL (Reuters) – As Turkish troops finalize plans to attack northeast Syria, Ankara’s scheme to move millions of refugees into conquered territory there is alarming some Western allies as much as the military operation itself.
Addressing world leaders at the United Nations two weeks ago, President Tayyip Erdogan held up a map of the region setting out ambitious proposals to build dozens of new villages and towns to settle Syrian refugees.
His map showed that 1 million Syrians would be housed in the northeast, but Erdogan told the U.N. General Assembly that even more – up to 2 million – refugees could settle there once Turkish soldiers take control.
Reports that Hevrin Khalaf was stopped in her armoured SUV by Turkish-backed mercenary factions, her driver executed, and she was either stoned to death or shot and then stoned.
David Graeber on Rojava as "..one of the most exciting political developments … since the anarchists in Spain in the 1930's. Makes the case that the Kurds in Syria do not have any intention to create, or even a concept of, a single Kurdish state across Syria and Turkey. Instead, Erdogan is an authoritarian who fears political contamination of his domestic Kurdish population by such deeply democratic ideas. Also says that although the origins of IS/ISIS are murky, it is likely a creation of the Turkish secret police and various Gulf States. From Novara Media a few days ago.
Gosh that's alarming. And the comments were interesting. I thought this one made a point that can be seen as resulting in continuing fighting and killing.
palim palim 3 days ago I think the problem we will face in the future will be eco-fascism. The right won't be able to ignore climate change anymore so they gonna "protect the moderate climate zones from refugees" or something like that.
The fucker greenlighted Erdogan. The US had advance knowledge that Turkey was going to invade and bailed on the Kurds.
Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.
The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused. The United States will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial “Caliphate” by the United States.
'I have seen Michael Pratt attack an employee. [Another colleague] has shown me scars where Michael Pratt stabbed him,' Moser said in court transcripts.
'I have seen him at his drunkest. I have seen the worst parts of him. I know what he's capable of. I think I understand the way his mind works and that's scary,' Moser told the court.
I think that NZr dyes his hair – he is black in that photo but he could go light to escape notice.
It made me think of a previous male kiwi who made money from spying on females. Kiwi men have wide talents and I think some of them excel in devious sexual behaviour reflecting the lingering Victorian approach in our culture. This one spied on Princess Diana as she worked out at the gym where she was a member.
1993 – The gym rat:
New Zealand squash was proud of Bryce Taylor, leading junior then long-time coach of Susan Devoy. Then Taylor installed secret cameras in a gym in London to take secret photos of Princess Diana working out. He sold the pics to the Mirror group for hundreds of thousands of pounds. Legal action followed, not surprisingly. Taylor was reviled and became known as the gym rat. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/10242790/Romanos-NZs-sporting-history-sorry-moments
A Bryce Taylor sold images to gettypictures. They included sports shots and people in general and images of celebrities, bodies and activities are probably quite lucrative as a commercial venture.
Princess Diana however developed a cunning ploy to merge with the background and spoil the male and money stimulating images.
I worry that inappropriate filming isn't taken seriously enough in NZ. We still have people filmed after accidents for example, and then there's the case of the GP who filmed his colleagues but can still practice as a doctor.
Life as a female is hard enough without having to be concerned that you might have been filmed during a smear test.
Executive officer for CPAG, Georgie Craw, said the welfare system was "broken" and the petition was calling on the Government to put "kindness and compassion at the heart of of the system".
By delivering the petition to Ardern's office, Craw said she hoped the prime minister would "provide some leadership".
Did Jacinda comment on this petition on her return?
Is she even aware of it?
Will she or did she give any indication on delivering on the hope she will provide some leadership on this?
One of the main concerns in this petition is the definition of a relationship, potentially putting people in the position of being trapped in an abusive relationship.
Have you tried your extensive network of people you know? Have you asked the PM? Have you asked Georgie Craw? Are you seriously expecting to find the answers to your three questions on this site when you did not have “any luck elsewhere”?
A link providing “insight” is a great way to start a genuine debate IMHO.
Are you seriously expecting to find the answers to your three questions on this site when you did not have “any luck elsewhere”?
Indeed. There is a large and somewhat informed community here that may be able to provide these answers.
Unfortunately, the petition was taken to Jacinda when she was out of the country, seemingly (as the media spotlight has seemed to moved on) allowing her to escape having to comment.
Re the further insight, the more info one has on an issue the better one can discuss and debate the issue.
As for the issue itself, I don't have a problem with it being urgently addressed. Do you?
Unfortunately, the petition was taken to Jacinda when she was out of the country, seemingly (as the media spotlight has seemed to moved on) allowing her to escape having to comment.
Again, you severely damage any credibility you may have. Even to insinuate that the PM’s trip to the UN was an attempt (?) to be away when the petition was delivered to her office shows a kind of thinking that has little bearing in reality.
I have already told you to feel free to debate the issue so why do you ask me?
Again, you severely damage any credibility you may have. Even to insinuate that the PM’s trip to the UN was an attempt (?) to be away when the petition was delivered to her office shows a kind of thinking that has little bearing in reality.
I wasn't insinuating that at all.
I was making a point (albeit indirectly) that the petition delivery was badly timed. And as a consequence of that, it seems Jacinda escaped having to comment.
I was asking you so as to ascertain your position on the matter to see if there was anything there we disagreed upon, thus perhaps providing a point of debate.
Right, the timing of delivery of the petition had nothing to do with the PM and her trip to the UN. It was merely convenient for the PM that she was away at the time, was it, so that she could escape having to comment? Your bias has nothing to do with the way you paint a picture and how you formulate and phrase your comments, has it?
If an issue is important enough that you feel it needs to be addressed urgently you have “a large and somewhat informed community here” at your beg and call to start a debate with. So, debate away. We are waiting with bated breath.
So, after all your Morris dancing on a pinhead, you do not want to debate this topic! Your credibility as a genuine good faith commenter has taken another major self-inflicted hit.
My apologies to all of you who cannot read comments that go straight into Trash in the back-end.
You did not miss anything until after I gave him the rest of the day off around 3:00 PM and one comment from TC @ 3:13 PM went straight into Trash. That particular comment clearly showed that it all been an enormous waste of time 🙁
Yes, thanks Incognito. I have given up pointing out how often concern troll TC keeps blowing his own cover. You nailed this one nicely. Most would give up, but TC seems strangely determined to persist.
I can tell you that some moderators are not enamoured with his behaviour and if he’s not willing to change his ways here he’ll lose his commenting privilege.
Mr Dodds said: "There is a lot of stuff coming from Brussels, pushed by the Europeans in the last hours. "One thing is sure – Northern Ireland must remain fully part of the UK customs union and Boris Johnson knows it very well," he told the Italian newspaper La Repubblica.
.
Here is a article from Stuff.co and from the sound of it, a young and progressive ECAN after the last 9yrs of BS! I hope they give the members of “The No Mates Party” and their lackeys a two finger salute.
France and Cyprus are conducting naval maneuvers off Cyprus as the east Mediterranean island nation is embroiled in a tense dispute with Turkey over offshore gas drilling.
Two French frigates heading to Syria plan to take part in "routine" exercises in Cypriot waters this weekend, a French military spokesman, Col. Frederic Barbry, said Saturday.
[..']
The maneuvers come as a Turkish drill ship, which is escorted by warships, is poised to start drilling inside waters where Cyprus has licensed French energy company Total and Italian partner Eni to explore for gas.
Another warship-escorted Turkish drill ship began drilling in Cyprus' exclusive economic zone in June. The European Union and other countries have condemned Turkey's gas search inside Cypriot waters as illegal.
Is USA intransigence and Make USA great again having an affect on Turkey's right wing leader? Does he scent an uprising of the previous greatness of Turkey before it got cut to size? Are we going to have everyplace realise how globalism can limit or advance them, and choosing to advance, expand, shoulder others out of the way.? No more Mr Nice Guy stuff.
Erdogan fancies himself as a neo-ottoman, a later-day Sultan mandated to expand Turkey and rebuild the Empire. The west's readiness to sit on it's hands and watch a bloody civil war rage in Syria and the power he has as gate keeper with yay or nay over the movement of refugees into Western Europe has emboldened him.
His recent ability to manipulate tRump is the icing on the cake.
He's gone large and thrown down the glove, stop me if you dare!
Sanders represents a movement that will live on after him – whether he wins or loses. According to Michael Brooks – one of the best and most historically conscious commentators around.
Labour was the only party to lose support in Newshub's poll. It's now on 41.6 percent – smacked down by 9.2 percent.
Most of that went to National, which is on 43.9 percent – up 6.5. This is enough to overtake Labour, and that's manna from heaven for the Nats and leader Simon Bridges.
But it's not enough to rule because the Greens are on 6.3 percent – up 0.1 percent – and keeping Labour in power.
Maybe the woeful handling of the Labour sexual harassment claims were a significant factor in Labour's plunge. In saying that, sections of the media were equally as woeful in their reporting of the claims and one of the worst culprits was Newshub. Facts were misrepresented or left out altogether leaving a distorted impression of what we actually came to know seems to have happened. They will hopefully be confirmed by the Inquiry.
I think its time for the Labour Party to stand up and call out those media commentators responsible. They are currently letting them get away with political murder.
So in spite of Newshub’s (and the Herald’s) dramatic headlines the poll shows the same electoral outcome that polls have been suggesting for well over a year now? Namely that Labour plus the Greens have enough support to form majority government without NZFirst.
It will be spun as a marked trend downwards for Labour though ScottGN. The sort of angle that over time voters will believe.
I agree with this extract from Martyn Bradbury's summing up:
No one should be shocked or surprised by this sudden drop in Labour support and Jacinda’s personal preferred PM numbers. This Poll was taken at the height of major media pundits and journalists falsely accusing Jacinda of knowing about and covering up a sexual assault as spelt out in grim detail by The Spinoff.
The woeful handling was down to some members of the Labour Party hierarchy and had nothing to do with Jacinda Ardern. That was a mischievous beat-up by the media.
It's a big wake-up call for Labour. This is the sort of media assassination they can expect to see next year.
I agree completely Anne. It’s worrisome that Labour doesn’t seem to have figured out a strategy to deal with what is, essentially, a hostile media. Also the party needs to get its shit together. Relying on Jacinda and her popularity to get them out of trouble that they don’t seem able to anticipate is not going to work long term. Her personal brand and credibility are political commodities that need to be treasured not wasted on every party crisis that comes along. It’s inconceivable that National would have put Key in the position that Labour put Ardern in over the sex assault scandal, they knew only too well that he was their ticket to government .
So in spite of Newshub’s (and the Herald’s) dramatic headlines the poll shows the same electoral outcome that polls have been suggesting for well over a year now?
Yep. Not that you'd guess that from Newshub's reporting. Oh no, with disastrous setbacks like polls showing Labour and the Greens could govern alone, however will the government win a second term?
So, this poll bump is not due to Chris Luxon’s shock announcement that he’s seeking party nomination to stand in Botany? Oh well, it looks like we keep the same Government in 2020 anyway.
Not really Incognito. Bradbury's article on the Daily Blog is worth a read. I agree with most of it. He points out the Greens should have picked up more of that 9.2% Labour loss and I have to agree. Politics is about more than just niceness and kindness. Both parties need to stand up more to the aggression coming from both the Nats and the ‘gotcha’ media hoons.
Most of the poll would have been conducted before the Luxon announcement.
My apologies to you, Anne, I was kidding about Luxon.
Anyway, I read Bradbury’s post upon your recommendation and came away slightly disappointed. He did not mention the other June poll, which is/was much more in line with the poll released tonight. Have a look at Micky’s post on the two June polls: https://thestandard.org.nz/two-polls-out-tonight/
If you're referring to the TVNZ Colmar Brunton yes it is closer to tonight's poll but I don't see the relevance. It was four months ago under different circumstances.
Yes I'm easily suckable. Include an emoticon in future. 😉
Where is everybody tonight? Polls usually bring them out of the woodwork.
First a confession: I don’t like talking (too) much about polls.
I think it is relevant because two polls came out around the same time, about four months ago, and they were at odds with each other and with previous polls. One of these polls is now used by some (…) as the benchmark against which to compare today’s poll. The other one is completely ignored!?
It shouldn’t matter which company conducts the poll because they all claim to be objective and method-neutral, i.e. they claim to give an accurate snapshot. If, however, a certain media story is causing these big swings then polls become largely meaningless in predicting the outcome of an election that is most likely a year away.
What polls might show is party vulnerability and what’s currently cooking in the voter-eligible population. So, they might be good for setting party strategy.
I would not read too much into those polls; they all are as good as each other.
Some of the poll aficionados here might correct me on my wayward thinking.
Where is everybody tonight? Polls usually bring them out of the woodwork.
You seem to have missed that Anne was suggesting “the woeful handling of the Labour sexual harassment claims were a significant factor in Labour's plunge”. But maybe it didn’t suit your snarky comment.
How do you suggest “getting them on side” and how does this differ from what Anne was saying?
“Putting in tens of millions of 5G antennae without a single biological test of safety has got to be about the stupidest idea anyone has had in the history of the world.” – Dr. Martin L. Pall, PhD and Professor Emeritus of Biochemistry and Basic Medical Sciences at Washington State University
Just in case there's new readers that weren't around for previous go-arounds on the topic of 5G safety, here's a piece that takes a brief look at the extensive testing that has already been done and explains why the evidence and what we know of physics points to there being no danger from deploying 5g.
People may have heard mutterings about 5G messing up weather forecasts. The US is the only country apparently planning to use a frequency band near 20GHz for 5G. There's a frequency very close to 20 GHz that weather satellites use to measure water vapour in the upper atmosphere, so there's a concern terrestrial emissions near 20GHz will mess up the measurements. But if that happens, it will only be a local problem in the US.
So that will only affect US. What will only affect us? There will be something that will sooner or later. And then we will hear of numbers of affects from across the world.
5G, is just another set of radio frequencies. In the range that has been used with no evidence of general harm, for over a century.
If you are really worried about RF, perhaps you should cut off the power to your house. House wiring is a more proximate, and much more powerful source of radio frequency radiation.
"Mark Carney also told the Guardian it was possible that the global transition needed to tackle the climate crisis could result in an abrupt financial collapse. He said the longer action to reverse emissions was delayed, the more the risk of collapse would grow."
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Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is supportive of the cross-party approach to climate adaptation announced by the Minister of Climate Change today. ...
The Sustainable Business Council (SBC) and Climate Leaders Coalition (CLC) welcome today’s announcement from Government around a bipartisan inquiry into an enduring climate adaptation framework for New Zealand. ...
The Free Speech Union welcomes the decision by the Department of Internal Affairs, and Minister Brooke Van Velden, to abandon proposals to further regulate online speech. ...
BusinessNZ is congratulating the Minister of Climate Change for his work in achieving cross-party consensus for a way forward on climate adaptation. ...
Recent research reveals the repeal of smokefree measures is not only bad for our health, but also the economy. The Government has repealed various smokefree measures to ensure it keeps collecting $1.2 billion a year in tobacco taxes, in order to pay for tax cuts already being delivered to ...
The club’s surprisingly good season is built on the desire to prove a random A-League YouTuber wrong… and a few other factors.“There’s no way that Wellington Phoenix play finals this year. I can’t see it happening at all.” Those are the words of Lachlan Raeside, an Australian football content ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By César Albarrán-Torres, Senior Lecturer, Department of Media and Communication, Swinburne University of Technology Apple TV+ As one of billions of bilingual individuals in the world, it disappoints me when a film or TV show with characters of a non-English-speaking background is ...
The under-utilised course is a waste of space, and with a little political will, it could be turned into something better. For the duration of her stay in Wellington, my long-suffering cousin listened to me rant about golf courses. They’re bad for the environment: water intensive and pesticide heavy. They ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Leah Ruppanner, Professor of Sociology and Founding Director of The Future of Work Lab, Podcast at MissPerceived, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock A recent report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows US fertility rates dropped 2% in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amy Corderoy, Medical doctor and PhD candidate studying involuntary psychiatric treatment, School of Psychiatry, UNSW Sydney shop_py/Shutterstock Picture two people, both suffering from a serious mental illness requiring hospital admission. One was born in Australia, the other in Asia. Hopefully, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Treby, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, RMIT University P.j.Hickox, Shutterstock Peatlands store more carbon per square metre than any other ecosystem on Earth. These waterlogged, mossy bogs beat even dense rainforests for their ability to act as carbon reservoirs. Under the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Goss, Adjunct Associate Professor, Health Research Institute, University of Canberra Government spending on health has been growing so rapidly that a decade ago the then health minister Peter Dutton called it “unmanageable” and “unsustainable”. Health spending grew in real terms by ...
New Zealand's largest electricity distributor is warning the country to hurry up with controls around charging electric vehicles or face unnecessary bills running into the billions. ...
New Zealanders have been asked to conserve energy this morning to combat a possible electricity shortfall, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. A call to conserve power New Zealand is facing a possible electricity shortfall, with people up ...
Writer Rebecca K Reilly breaks down the national book awards. What are the Ockhams?The Ockham New Zealand Book Awards are our annual national awards for books published for adults, and have existed in this form since 2016. There are four categories: Fiction, Poetry, General Non-fiction and Illustrated Non-fiction. There ...
Wellington City Council should keep its 34% ownership share in Wellington International Airport, argue Unions Wellington spokespeople Finn Cordwell and Ashok Jacob. Insanity, as the saying goes, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wellington City Council (WCC) is yet again proposing to dispose ...
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When not to 'debate'.
http://www.armoxon.com/2017/09/bubbles-10-both-sides.html
you really are reciting the authoritarian-mantra..aren't you…?
deciding who can and who can't be heard..
a propensity that is both strong (and wrong) in many of my fellow leftwing travellers…
most disturbing..it is..
You really did not understand the article I linked to, did you? It talks only about individuals choosing how to act.
um..!..correct me if i'm wrong – but i recall you arguing here for me to be shut down for 'not debating in good faith'..
which is why the first line on this excerpt you chose to link to..jumped out at me..
'A debate must be in good faith. Sometimes it is inappropriate to have a debate against someone who's intentions are not in good faith. Sometimes you have to 'change the locks'
and it does seem to me that looking at the excerpts you chose to highlight..that you are arguing for the censorship – of the likes of me..
have i misunderstood that in some way..?
Moderators can choose to respond to bad faith arguments however they want.
???
how does that relate – in any way..to the clarification – i was seeking..?
and i see you even have a name for them – 'bad faith arguments'..
have you acronymed that yet..?
I can't do anything about your comprehension. Enjoy the sun.
so we will just leave your non-answer to sit there and fester ..eh..?
readers can ask themselves why you will/can not answer quite a straightforward query..
you cutting and running..eh..?
i actually think that at heart authoritarians are bullies looking for back-up..
do you think a case can be made for that..?
Come on, Philip, you can't call the cut and run line and retain credibility when you yourself did the same thing only a few of days ago.
Just no point in continuing a discussion with someone who does not understand words like 'censorship'. I trust others to have enough nous to make sense of what is already there.
It is not compulsory to answer questions posed by other commenters, least in OM. You know this and do it yourself, from time to time. Rather than displaying your dissatisfaction with Sacha’s reason for “cutting and running” from you, you may want to consider a different response or just leave it and move on and enjoy your time in the sun at a bach in Raglan. I know what I’d do 😉
of course i understand it is not complusory to answer questions..
(i would also oppose a dictum such as that..)
but in this case it was the first post of the day..
which is often presented by the poster as a discussion topic..
and this is what i responded to..
and i feel i have been unfailingly polite in my queries..
so 'surprise' rather than the 'dissatifaction' you attribute to me is my reaction to the cutting and running of the presenter..
and like i said – readers can make of that what they will..
that's all…no biggie..
and not so much a bach..more a caravan made in masterton in 1957 – even nicer i wd argue..(it has wheels..)
and not in but 'near raglan'..and once again 'even nicer' i wd argue..
mind you – raglan itself is pretty nice – for a town..
I apologise for misreading “a beach near raglan” as “a bach at Raglan”. Very sloppy of me.
Even though a commenter may intend to start a “discussion topic”, and even if they happen to post the “first post of the day”, they may feel it is an exercise in futility to engage with another commenter on that topic for various reasons. A wise thing to do is to politely state the reason(s) and not engage further. Or they may simply ignore the other commenter. All quite civil and freedom of speech does allow to not engage. Take it or leave it, Phil.
re yr 'bad faith arguments'..
cd you plse define/clarify for me what exactly a 'bad faith argument' is..
and perhaps as further clarification/an example – you could apply those definitions to the animal-rights arguments i present(ed)..
and perhaps tell me why you thought you had the grounds to accuse me of 'bad faith' arguing at that time..?
and if an argument is challenging to the listener – as clearly mine were to/for you – do they morph into 'bad faith' arguments..?
and – as explanation – my reasons for opposing such subjective censorship – is because it is so just that – 'subjective'..
and this makes it wide open to abuse/to shutting down issues you don't want discussed/to silencing people you don't 'like'..for whatever tenuous reasons…
and because it is so open to abuse – this is why it must not be countenanced..
and really – the best-ever takedown of authoritarianism has to be cartman..
in his 'respect my authority!' role…
doesn't it..?
Absolutely correct… yet again Phil.
If you don't tow the line we will impeach you or label you Alex Jones they say….
He really didn't, did he?
I find when opposing one using bad faith arguments as you laid out, despite best intentions, it's frequently easier to just show where they are wrong and leave it to the ether. The problems arise when one tries to counter the shifting goalposts that often come when debating a BFA, and as we know from here, come they do… Along with the insults and straw men and because you've written this it must mean you believe this type of foolery.
I like how you have practiced what you preached and not got involved here. A fine example.
Thank you. We all have better things to do.
I can't stand the 'both sides' debate – (usually made by those with privilege imo) – for the reasons stated in the article linked to above
That quote mm is spot on and it happens almost on a daily basis these days.
The best example though has been the 'two sides' theory of Climate Change. There was never two sides. There was the truth and there were the lies. It should not be forgotten that some 10 or so years ago, the liars went so far as to hack into a prominent British scientist's (there might have been more than one) emails and altered figures to make it look like the material contained was faulty and the scientist(s) incompetent.
And for years the gullible and ignorant MSM around the world went along with the two-side theory and must take a large dose of the blame for the delay in forcing the necessary changes required to save life on Earth.
"Altered figures", you say.
Do you have a link for that, Anne? We wouldn't want people to think you were arguing in bad faith in a discussion about "bad faith arguments".
[speaking of bad faith, consider this a warning that if you continue to poke at and bait commenters you’ll get another ban. I can see no reason at all for questioning Anne’s good faith here. By all means ask for more information from her, but taking a potshot at the same time is going to cause problems – weka]
Go find it for yourself [deleted uncalled for insult]. Won't take you long. It was spread all over the international media at the time.
You made the assertion, Anne. Hence, it's not my job to back your claim. My understanding is (on this site) it's yours – i.e. those who make an assertion.
I think Anne might be referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy
Moderators often act as Schoolmasters having to break up shit fights about shit 🙁
I can’t see anything in that article that mentions altering of documents. Filtering, sure. But not out and out altering.
think Anne might be misguided on this one.
“Climategate” certainly wasn’t helped by terminology like “hide the decline” and “proxy measurements”
but another example of Russian meddling to keep western eyes away from the massive ecological disaster that is Russia and China.
Citing out of context is an out and out alteration.
While citing discussion out of context may also alter perception it's not altering figures per se.
Oh great! You are bogged down again by pedantic nitpickery and thus missing (again!) the main message of Anne’s comment @ 1.2.1, which was a direct response to marty mars @ 1.2. In fact, you kinda prove their point, which I find most ironic but not too surprising.
Citing out of context is a dishonest manipulation that alters an author's intended syntax.
I concur, Climaction. I didn't see anything in there mentioning the hackers altered the figures.
That is the one. Thanks Incognito. I couldn't recall the details off the top of my head.
Poor little TC. It's gonna take him a long time to absorb all of that material so we can expect not to hear from him for a while. Troubling to think that someone who sold himself as a Green supporter and voter in times past didn't know what I was talking about. 😉
Not at all.
It's not that I didn't get the gist of her comment. It's what you claimed to merely be "pedantic nitpickery" which was the point I was highlighting (albeit indirectly) to Anne. And which weakened the validity of her comment.
While there was altering via context, there was no altering of figures (by the hackers) as Anne claimed. Placing the faith of her argument in question in a discussion about bad faith arguments.
I see, you are doubling down on the nitpickery and questioning the good faith of Anne’s comment. Way to go, champ. Perhaps you may want to re-read the whole thread and then go back up the thread and comment on the gist or have you sunk too deep into death by detail dump.
Of course I'm doubling down. Why wouldn't I be? It was the point I was making. And the reason I posted it. Anne stating they altered figures brought the good faith of her comment into question.
[Because you had been warned by weka about questioning Anne’s good faith here. By doubling down, you show that you, in fact, are acting in bad faith. In addition, you have made zero useful contribution today in any thread on this site and your dull drudgery is getting tedious. Take the rest of the day off – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 2:48 PM.
Oh, so it was some of the wording that was altered not the figures. Same result. The documents were mischievously changed to make it look like the scientists were incompetent.
I may not have recalled the details exactly but I do remember the CC deniers vociferously accusing the scientists of misinformation.
Unfortunately the media were remiss in giving the outcome of the several inquiries by British, European and American agencies the same level of prominence as the original accusations which, in itself, was an example of irresponsible media coverage.
Thanks TC for affording my and Marty Mar's commentaries the prominence they would not otherwise have received.
And here is a quote from the text supplied by Incognito @ 1217pm to back up my claims:
mod note for you TC.
Typical ‘bad faith’ activity, much like National's persistent Dirty Politics tactics.
Misrepresentation is another bad faith activity – for example, someone asserting they are “more left than most“, while only referring to Prime Minister Ardern on a first name basis
Now now kids! Go to your corners. And for homework, you're expected to determine what sort of polygon you all belong to. I want it on my desk first thing in the morning!
(We've got the inspector coming and our funding depends on it)
Erdogan's on his way to committing a war crime.
– Fourth Geneva Covention.
https://twitter.com/OARichardEngel/status/1182953806277021697
ISTANBUL (Reuters) – As Turkish troops finalize plans to attack northeast Syria, Ankara’s scheme to move millions of refugees into conquered territory there is alarming some Western allies as much as the military operation itself.
Addressing world leaders at the United Nations two weeks ago, President Tayyip Erdogan held up a map of the region setting out ambitious proposals to build dozens of new villages and towns to settle Syrian refugees.
His map showed that 1 million Syrians would be housed in the northeast, but Erdogan told the U.N. General Assembly that even more – up to 2 million – refugees could settle there once Turkish soldiers take control.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-refugees-graphi/turkeys-plan-to-settle-refugees-in-northeast-syria-alarms-allies-idUSKBN1WN28J
Turkish-backed Arab militias are executing Kurds.
https://twitter.com/RojavaIC/status/1182980590074843136
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/12/kurdish-party-leader-killed-in-turkish-ambush-in-syria
Reports that Hevrin Khalaf was stopped in her armoured SUV by Turkish-backed mercenary factions, her driver executed, and she was either stoned to death or shot and then stoned.
disgusting bastards
David Graeber on Rojava as "..one of the most exciting political developments … since the anarchists in Spain in the 1930's. Makes the case that the Kurds in Syria do not have any intention to create, or even a concept of, a single Kurdish state across Syria and Turkey. Instead, Erdogan is an authoritarian who fears political contamination of his domestic Kurdish population by such deeply democratic ideas. Also says that although the origins of IS/ISIS are murky, it is likely a creation of the Turkish secret police and various Gulf States. From Novara Media a few days ago.
Gosh that's alarming. And the comments were interesting. I thought this one made a point that can be seen as resulting in continuing fighting and killing.
palim palim 3 days ago I think the problem we will face in the future will be eco-fascism. The right won't be able to ignore climate change anymore so they gonna "protect the moderate climate zones from refugees" or something like that.
The fucker greenlighted Erdogan. The US had advance knowledge that Turkey was going to invade and bailed on the Kurds.
Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.
The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused. The United States will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial “Caliphate” by the United States.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-85/
We have a fugitive on the run from the FBI somewhere in NZ – how exciting! Someone knows where he is…
Michael Pratt is a Kiwi who ran the GirlsDoPorn site and sounds like scum who has issues with mummy. Pic in link although he may have shaved.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12275965
Ex assistant has testified
A right charmer.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7555739/Whistleblower-testifies-against-owner-Girls-Porn-lawsuit.html
I think that NZr dyes his hair – he is black in that photo but he could go light to escape notice.
It made me think of a previous male kiwi who made money from spying on females. Kiwi men have wide talents and I think some of them excel in devious sexual behaviour reflecting the lingering Victorian approach in our culture. This one spied on Princess Diana as she worked out at the gym where she was a member.
1993 – The gym rat:
New Zealand squash was proud of Bryce Taylor, leading junior then long-time coach of Susan Devoy. Then Taylor installed secret cameras in a gym in London to take secret photos of Princess Diana working out. He sold the pics to the Mirror group for hundreds of thousands of pounds. Legal action followed, not surprisingly. Taylor was reviled and became known as the gym rat. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/10242790/Romanos-NZs-sporting-history-sorry-moments
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/9/newsid_2515000/2515739.stm
A Bryce Taylor sold images to gettypictures. They included sports shots and people in general and images of celebrities, bodies and activities are probably quite lucrative as a commercial venture.
Princess Diana however developed a cunning ploy to merge with the background and spoil the male and money stimulating images.
Princess Diana: The hidden message in her gym gear 3/7/2019 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12246109
Classy Di.
I worry that inappropriate filming isn't taken seriously enough in NZ. We still have people filmed after accidents for example, and then there's the case of the GP who filmed his colleagues but can still practice as a doctor.
Life as a female is hard enough without having to be concerned that you might have been filmed during a smear test.
While Jacinda was away at the UN, a petition (see link below) was delivered to her office.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115998910/calls-for-urgent-changes-to-broken-welfare-system
Did Jacinda comment on this petition on her return?
Is she even aware of it?
Will she or did she give any indication on delivering on the hope she will provide some leadership on this?
One of the main concerns in this petition is the definition of a relationship, potentially putting people in the position of being trapped in an abusive relationship.
Please report back when you have found the answers to your three questions. In the meantime, feel free to debate the issue.
Wasn't having any luck elsewhere, hence I asked here.
Nevertheless, here's a little more insight.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/393609/welfare-system-needs-to-change-how-it-defines-relationships-report
Have you tried your extensive network of people you know? Have you asked the PM? Have you asked Georgie Craw? Are you seriously expecting to find the answers to your three questions on this site when you did not have “any luck elsewhere”?
A link providing “insight” is a great way to start a genuine debate IMHO.
Indeed. There is a large and somewhat informed community here that may be able to provide these answers.
Unfortunately, the petition was taken to Jacinda when she was out of the country, seemingly (as the media spotlight has seemed to moved on) allowing her to escape having to comment.
Re the further insight, the more info one has on an issue the better one can discuss and debate the issue.
As for the issue itself, I don't have a problem with it being urgently addressed. Do you?
Again, you severely damage any credibility you may have. Even to insinuate that the PM’s trip to the UN was an attempt (?) to be away when the petition was delivered to her office shows a kind of thinking that has little bearing in reality.
I have already told you to feel free to debate the issue so why do you ask me?
I wasn't insinuating that at all.
I was making a point (albeit indirectly) that the petition delivery was badly timed. And as a consequence of that, it seems Jacinda escaped having to comment.
I was asking you so as to ascertain your position on the matter to see if there was anything there we disagreed upon, thus perhaps providing a point of debate.
Right, the timing of delivery of the petition had nothing to do with the PM and her trip to the UN. It was merely convenient for the PM that she was away at the time, was it, so that she could escape having to comment? Your bias has nothing to do with the way you paint a picture and how you formulate and phrase your comments, has it?
If an issue is important enough that you feel it needs to be addressed urgently you have “a large and somewhat informed community here” at your beg and call to start a debate with. So, debate away. We are waiting with bated breath.
So, after all your Morris dancing on a pinhead, you do not want to debate this topic! Your credibility as a genuine good faith commenter has taken another major self-inflicted hit.
My apologies to all of you who cannot read comments that go straight into Trash in the back-end.
Thanks for clarifying. Did wonder if there was more going on than we could see.
You did not miss anything until after I gave him the rest of the day off around 3:00 PM and one comment from TC @ 3:13 PM went straight into Trash. That particular comment clearly showed that it all been an enormous waste of time 🙁
Yes, thanks Incognito. I have given up pointing out how often concern troll TC keeps blowing his own cover. You nailed this one nicely. Most would give up, but TC seems strangely determined to persist.
I can tell you that some moderators are not enamoured with his behaviour and if he’s not willing to change his ways here he’ll lose his commenting privilege.
Fun watching this mob turn on each other.
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1182982522709446656
Brexit continuing…
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/12/support-grows-for-new-brexit-poll-amid-fears-pm-plan
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/hopes-rise-eu-agrees-boost-brexit-talks-191012061340965.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-50030001
Northern Ireland must stay in a "full UK customs union" after Brexit, the Democratic Unionist Party's (DUP) deputy leader Nigel Dodds has said….
Mr Dodds said: "There is a lot of stuff coming from Brussels, pushed by the Europeans in the last hours. "One thing is sure – Northern Ireland must remain fully part of the UK customs union and Boris Johnson knows it very well," he told the Italian newspaper La Repubblica.
.
Is Boris Johnson about to snatch Brexit victory from the jaws of defeat? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6GdgladVk
Anyone know the deal with the ECan results. According to stuff, there is a shitload of greenies on there, but Im not taking their word for it?
Here is a article from Stuff.co and from the sound of it, a young and progressive ECAN after the last 9yrs of BS! I hope they give the members of “The No Mates Party” and their lackeys a two finger salute.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/116510981/new-canterbury-regional-council-younger-greener-gender-balanced
Yeah I saw that, but wasnt too sure if the truth was being tweaked or not.
Erdogan's making friends and influencing people.
France and Cyprus are conducting naval maneuvers off Cyprus as the east Mediterranean island nation is embroiled in a tense dispute with Turkey over offshore gas drilling.
Two French frigates heading to Syria plan to take part in "routine" exercises in Cypriot waters this weekend, a French military spokesman, Col. Frederic Barbry, said Saturday.
[..']
The maneuvers come as a Turkish drill ship, which is escorted by warships, is poised to start drilling inside waters where Cyprus has licensed French energy company Total and Italian partner Eni to explore for gas.
Another warship-escorted Turkish drill ship began drilling in Cyprus' exclusive economic zone in June. The European Union and other countries have condemned Turkey's gas search inside Cypriot waters as illegal.
https://www.france24.com/en/20191012-france-joins-cyprus-for-naval-manoeuvres-amid-turkey-gas-dispute?ref=tw_i
Is USA intransigence and Make USA great again having an affect on Turkey's right wing leader? Does he scent an uprising of the previous greatness of Turkey before it got cut to size? Are we going to have everyplace realise how globalism can limit or advance them, and choosing to advance, expand, shoulder others out of the way.? No more Mr Nice Guy stuff.
Erdogan fancies himself as a neo-ottoman, a later-day Sultan mandated to expand Turkey and rebuild the Empire. The west's readiness to sit on it's hands and watch a bloody civil war rage in Syria and the power he has as gate keeper with yay or nay over the movement of refugees into Western Europe has emboldened him.
His recent ability to manipulate tRump is the icing on the cake.
He's gone large and thrown down the glove, stop me if you dare!
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/22/erdogan-is-making-the-ottoman-empire-great-again/
Sanders represents a movement that will live on after him – whether he wins or loses. According to Michael Brooks – one of the best and most historically conscious commentators around.
Latest Newshub Reid Research Poll:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/jacinda-ardern-labour-take-massive-tumble-in-new-newshub-reid-research-poll.html
Maybe the woeful handling of the Labour sexual harassment claims were a significant factor in Labour's plunge. In saying that, sections of the media were equally as woeful in their reporting of the claims and one of the worst culprits was Newshub. Facts were misrepresented or left out altogether leaving a distorted impression of what we actually came to know seems to have happened. They will hopefully be confirmed by the Inquiry.
I think its time for the Labour Party to stand up and call out those media commentators responsible. They are currently letting them get away with political murder.
So in spite of Newshub’s (and the Herald’s) dramatic headlines the poll shows the same electoral outcome that polls have been suggesting for well over a year now? Namely that Labour plus the Greens have enough support to form majority government without NZFirst.
It will be spun as a marked trend downwards for Labour though ScottGN. The sort of angle that over time voters will believe.
I agree with this extract from Martyn Bradbury's summing up:
The woeful handling was down to some members of the Labour Party hierarchy and had nothing to do with Jacinda Ardern. That was a mischievous beat-up by the media.
It's a big wake-up call for Labour. This is the sort of media assassination they can expect to see next year.
I agree completely Anne. It’s worrisome that Labour doesn’t seem to have figured out a strategy to deal with what is, essentially, a hostile media. Also the party needs to get its shit together. Relying on Jacinda and her popularity to get them out of trouble that they don’t seem able to anticipate is not going to work long term. Her personal brand and credibility are political commodities that need to be treasured not wasted on every party crisis that comes along. It’s inconceivable that National would have put Key in the position that Labour put Ardern in over the sex assault scandal, they knew only too well that he was their ticket to government .
So in spite of Newshub’s (and the Herald’s) dramatic headlines the poll shows the same electoral outcome that polls have been suggesting for well over a year now?
Yep. Not that you'd guess that from Newshub's reporting. Oh no, with disastrous setbacks like polls showing Labour and the Greens could govern alone, however will the government win a second term?
So, this poll bump is not due to Chris Luxon’s shock announcement that he’s seeking party nomination to stand in Botany? Oh well, it looks like we keep the same Government in 2020 anyway.
Not really Incognito. Bradbury's article on the Daily Blog is worth a read. I agree with most of it. He points out the Greens should have picked up more of that 9.2% Labour loss and I have to agree. Politics is about more than just niceness and kindness. Both parties need to stand up more to the aggression coming from both the Nats and the ‘gotcha’ media hoons.
Most of the poll would have been conducted before the Luxon announcement.
My apologies to you, Anne, I was kidding about Luxon.
Anyway, I read Bradbury’s post upon your recommendation and came away slightly disappointed. He did not mention the other June poll, which is/was much more in line with the poll released tonight. Have a look at Micky’s post on the two June polls: https://thestandard.org.nz/two-polls-out-tonight/
If you're referring to the TVNZ Colmar Brunton yes it is closer to tonight's poll but I don't see the relevance. It was four months ago under different circumstances.
Yes I'm easily suckable. Include an emoticon in future. 😉
Where is everybody tonight? Polls usually bring them out of the woodwork.
First a confession: I don’t like talking (too) much about polls.
I think it is relevant because two polls came out around the same time, about four months ago, and they were at odds with each other and with previous polls. One of these polls is now used by some (…) as the benchmark against which to compare today’s poll. The other one is completely ignored!?
It shouldn’t matter which company conducts the poll because they all claim to be objective and method-neutral, i.e. they claim to give an accurate snapshot. If, however, a certain media story is causing these big swings then polls become largely meaningless in predicting the outcome of an election that is most likely a year away.
What polls might show is party vulnerability and what’s currently cooking in the voter-eligible population. So, they might be good for setting party strategy.
I would not read too much into those polls; they all are as good as each other.
Some of the poll aficionados here might correct me on my wayward thinking.
I’ve banned them all for the day 😉
That it explains it. Good idea to shut em up every once in a while. 🙂
Pretty hope-full there Anne. When polls come out before enquirieis launched months ago, the damage has been done. Not by the media either.
but keep blaming them, instead of getting them on side
You seem to have missed that Anne was suggesting “the woeful handling of the Labour sexual harassment claims were a significant factor in Labour's plunge”. But maybe it didn’t suit your snarky comment.
How do you suggest “getting them on side” and how does this differ from what Anne was saying?
5G halted in Devonshire! Good to see skeptical thinking is gradually winning over entertainment.
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2019/10/09/health-devonshire-uk-halts-the-installation-of-5g-over-serious-health-concerns/
True that.
Still time to sign the petition https://www.toko.org.nz/petitions/precautionary-principle-for-5g-in-aotearoa-1
*sigh*
Just in case there's new readers that weren't around for previous go-arounds on the topic of 5G safety, here's a piece that takes a brief look at the extensive testing that has already been done and explains why the evidence and what we know of physics points to there being no danger from deploying 5g.
https://www.androidauthority.com/5g-dangers-895776/
People may have heard mutterings about 5G messing up weather forecasts. The US is the only country apparently planning to use a frequency band near 20GHz for 5G. There's a frequency very close to 20 GHz that weather satellites use to measure water vapour in the upper atmosphere, so there's a concern terrestrial emissions near 20GHz will mess up the measurements. But if that happens, it will only be a local problem in the US.
A quote comes to mind "First they came…"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_…
So that will only affect US. What will only affect us? There will be something that will sooner or later. And then we will hear of numbers of affects from across the world.
What will only affect us? There will be something that will sooner or later.
The sky might fall on our heads?
5G, is just another set of radio frequencies. In the range that has been used with no evidence of general harm, for over a century.
If you are really worried about RF, perhaps you should cut off the power to your house. House wiring is a more proximate, and much more powerful source of radio frequency radiation.
President Warren does sound rather nice.
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1183079555709505537
Downward mobility – a datum that might prove a good measure of actual government performance.
"Mark Carney also told the Guardian it was possible that the global transition needed to tackle the climate crisis could result in an abrupt financial collapse. He said the longer action to reverse emissions was delayed, the more the risk of collapse would grow."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/13/firms-ignoring-climate-crisis-bankrupt-mark-carney-bank-england-governor
Collapse would appear to have become a mainstream proposition