Open Mike 14/03/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 14th, 2018 - 259 comments
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259 comments on “Open Mike 14/03/2018”

  1. Ed 1

    George Galloway.

    “The kind of consensual frenzy I watched in the House today, with Corbyn’s nuanced position openly derided even on his own side was chillingly familiar to me. When the Commons is unanimous it’s usually unanimously wrong…”

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    One of my fav YTers on one of my fav topics

    https://youtu.be/2w7OxMjnZxY

    • savenz 3.1

      They had 20 years to stop Meth and nobody bothered too hard.

      • tc 3.1.1

        I’m led to believe NZ police’s own narc’s detectives were telling the rank and file to throw the kitchen sink at meth, diverting resources from the dreaded green in the 90’s.

        They saw it’s potential for mayhem in society and the cash criminals can derive from it. Can’t recall the book a former narc’s officer made that claim in.

        So yeah savenz they didn’t try all that hard especially given all the resources still being thrown at the dreaded green.

  3. Chris T 4

    It has come out this morning that one of the four victims from the Labour Party camp have gone to the police.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/03/labour-camp-alleged-sexual-assault-victim-lays-police-complaint.html

    Also yesterday afternoon another girl came forward with a similar complaint from another Labour camp.

    And Mike Williams said this morning there was another similar assault at another Labour party do which went to court so was suppressed and the public didn’t know

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102242327/victim-tells-labour-they-have-gone-to-police-over-alleged-sexual-assault

    • JohnSelway 4.1

      Does that make it three different incidents now?

    • Cinny 4.2

      Watched Andrew Kirton on both networks this morning, well done to him for fronting up today and for your sincerity. Next time please let Jacinda know about it.

      To the teenager who is looking at going to police, you are very brave, I hope it won’t result in a media circus for you, stay strong.

      • Anne 4.2.1

        I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. The MO is remarkably similar to that used on David Cunliffe… grab a piece of info. (eg. a letter he had received 12 years previously) and create a false meme around it. Make sure your MSM acolytes keep it on the boil for as long as possible. They all know the truth will out eventually, but that doesn’t matter because by then the damage has already been done.

        For the purpose of enlightening readers, I understand Andrew Kirton was head-hunted for the job and he returned from England to take it up a year or two ago. He apparently has a very impressive record and since he took over the day to day running of the Party, the overall performance has improved out of all recognition.

        That’s why Labour’s enemies want to him gone!

        • Stunned Mullet 4.2.1.1

          🙄

          • Anne 4.2.1.1.1

            Yeah well Stunny boy, we know your level of cognitive comprehension is fairly average, so its stands to reason you might not be able to recognise the similarities or even remember them.

            • Stunned Mullet 4.2.1.1.1.1

              What truth will out eventually Anne ?

              – Some 20 year old feeling secure enough at a Labour youth event to sexually assault teens. Not just once, but 4 times. He would be correct to feel secure; there would have been no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open
              – Labour feeling that it’s Ok to have a party where booze is available to teens. No repercussions.
              – Labour feeling it’s Ok to “let the team decide” how to deal with the issues rather than step in with firm leadership when that was clearly missing. No repercussions for the “team” or for the ignorant leadership.

              • In Vino

                SM: The 20-yr-old wasn’t “secure” – he was very drunk, you muppet. And please note that the 16-yr-old victims have NOT been accused of being drunk, except in the rantings of right-wingers who make it sound as if absolutely everyone was rolling drunk.

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                  Since when is or should ever “very drunk” an excuse?

                  • reason

                    Like forever ….. Tuppence

                    “A doctor’s report said the man had had several occasions in the past of “odd” incidents occurring after waking up after drinking and not having knowledge of what he did.

                    The entertainer had since sworn off alcohol completely and he did not have any “paedophilic tendencies”, the doctor said.”

                    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5555711/Comedian-discharged-over-sex-act-on-daughter

                    Family Violence in NZ …. ” The authors found that areas with additional off-licence outlets were associated with 85.4 more police events and 10.3 more vehicle accidents a year. Those with a higher number of clubs and bars were associated with 34.7 more police events and 0.5 more vehicle accidents a year.”

                    The ‘drug crazed maniac’ that most of us are ever likely to encounter is the angry drunk…….

                    The drug addict that most of us will ever know is the alcoholic ……

                    The drug which is ‘pushed’ at us with $millions in marketing is alcohol

                    The ‘drug pushers’ ( booze company’s ) target our young people

                    The drug which fuels crime is alcohol

                    The drug which causes the most brain damage is alcohol

                    The drug most commonly used in ‘drug rape’ is alcohol

                    assults, rapes, crime, ill health, dependency, psychosis ………….. booze booze booze

                    People forget that alcohol is a toxic drug and a drug of dependence.

                    • Approximately one third of alleged offenders apprehended were recorded to have consumed alcohol prior to offending.[20]

                    • New Zealand reports on alcohol, crime and anti-social behaviour highlight that each year thousands of New Zealanders are harmed by other people’s drinking and many more are made to feel unsafe.[21]

                    • Data obtained in 2007 by Alco-Link showed just under half (49.8%) of arrests for violence-related offences involved an offender affected by alcohol as did 78% of arrests for disorder offences.[22]

                • Stunned Mullet

                  In vino – so the 20 year old was “very drunk” I didn’t know that, how is that relevant ?

                  I didn’t know anyone was accusing the teens who had been assaulted of being drunk.

                  I believe it was Labour party spokespeople who stated that there was a great deal of alcohol at the event.

                  • reason

                    being drunk is generally not an accusation …. but an observation of intoxication by the drug alcohol.

                    Unless your driving a car, operating machinery or at a kids birthday party.

                    In the context of being a sexual abuse victim …. ‘accusing’ someone of being drunk is rape culture , defense lawyer language.

                    People should be able to pass out / over-dose without being sexually assaulted.

              • You seem to have very certain knowledge of what happened, Stunned Mullet. Whence comes this knowledge? I ask this because the answer “My arse” seems all too likely.

                • Stunned Mullet

                  @ Psycho – I have no knowledge of your arse…thankfully.

                • Stunned Mullet

                  Further to your spirited defense of the indefensible and it seems the PM has now acknowledged Labour let ‘their’ kids down and cancelled all further camps pending an independent review of what happened.

                  • In Vino

                    SM: You stated that the perpetrator felt “secure”. I called bullshit because when people are very drunk they tend to care very little about feeling “secure” – that is the way alcohol works. So your snide remark about the perpetrator feeling “secure” was bullshit. Is that spelt out clearly enough for you?

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    Labour, not the PM cancelled all further Young Labour events. there’s a difference between the Party and Labour Caucus – interrelated, but each still have some autonomy.

                    This afternoon, party president Nigel Haworth said all Young Labour events would be suspended while an independent review, aided by the Sexual Abuse Prevention Network, takes place.

                    The review would look at the policies and procedures in relation to the party’s events, including those held by Labour’s sector groups.

                    There will also be ban on alcohol at any Labour events attended by anyone under 18.

                    “We need to take the time to properly review issues around how best to create the safest possible environment at all our events,” Mr Haworth said.

                    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said she had been making her own inquiries to fully understand what had gone wrong at the camp.

                    “It has become very clear to me the extent of our failure to both provide a safe environment for those young people at the Waihi summer camp and to properly deal with serious concerns raised by several attendees in relation to sexual misconduct and alcohol.”

                    Labour had failed the young people who told the party they had been hurt, Ms Ardern said.

                    “This failure left them feeling abandoned and I am deeply sorry for that. It’s not good enough, we let them down.”

              • McFlock

                there would have been no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open

                OR
                the victims were supported and given time to make their own decisions about who to involve according to their own schedule.

                Labour feeling that it’s Ok to have a party where booze is available to teens. No repercussions.

                OR
                Labour were yet another group where supervision at functions fell down and they do need to take a hard look at themselves in this regard.

                Labour feeling it’s Ok to “let the team decide” how to deal with the issues rather than step in with firm leadership when that was clearly missing. No repercussions for the “team” or for the ignorant leadership.

                OR
                The leadership let the victims decide and supported their decisions, rather than revictimising them simply to cover their own arses from your smear-mongering.

                • Stunned Mullet

                  I think you’re being very charitable.

                  • McFlock

                    I don’t believe you.

                    I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      You don’t believe that I think you’re being too charitable ?

                      “I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.”

                      I have no political ends as such, I do admit that my general opinion of politicians and their agents is very low indeed and that they seldom rise above my expectations of them.

                    • Ed

                      I don’t believe him either.

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t believe you have any particular opinion on what people did or what their motives were, therefore I think that any opinion you claim about that is a lie.

                      As for your general low opinion of politicians, that’s a nice excuse for avoiding responsibility for whomever you do or do not support. It’s usually used by nats to excuse supporting people who joke about prison rape.

                      But then if some politicians weren’t complete sociopaths, you might actually have to make a nuanced argument about why you disagreed with their policies and actions rather than just leaping to the worst possible interpretation.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      To be fair Ed I don’t think who or what you personally believe adds a great deal to anyone’s argument apart from your own.

                      @McFlock – I can assure you I have quite strong opinions on teens being assaulted and also the stupidity organisers of functions in allowing abundant alcohol at such events – I’d be surprised if anyone didn’t have strong opinions on such things.

                      As I have stated a number of times I did not vote for the Nats at the last election – in relation to my general low opinion of politicians I think you’ll find I’m hardly an outlier amongst the general public.

                    • McFlock

                      Assure all you want.

                      I still don’t believe you, for reasons stated above.

                  • I think you’re being very charitable.

                    Don’t ask us what we think you’re being, because the answers wouldn’t be pretty.

        • JohnSelway 4.2.1.2

          I’m pretty sure the incident(s) is/are enough to be discussed on their own merits instead of having a shady conspiracy to explain it.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.2.1

            I’m pretty sure the only reason it’s in the news is for the political point scoring done by the RWNJs.

            No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM.

            • alwyn 4.2.1.2.1.1

              “No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”
              I presume you have heard of Harvey Weinstein?
              Or will you insist that “citation needed”?

              • Anne

                i didn’t know Weinstein was a NZer and he committed his crimes in NZ?

                Where’s the evidence?

                • Sam C

                  Poor attempt at diversion Anne. Please do better.

                • alwyn

                  Perhaps you could explain where in DTB’s comment does he mention New Zealand?
                  His comment was, in full
                  “No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    I was only considering NZ.

                    Now, citation that all other sexual assault cases in NZ get the same attention from the MSM.

                    • JohnSelway

                      They don’t all get the same attention but high profile cases (i.e politics, actors, public servants et al) are obviously going to garner more attention.

                      In fact on Stuff an inappropriate teacher/student relationship has been leading some of the day today – ahead of the Labour case

                    • alwyn

                      You really do like to change your argument don’t you.
                      1. Qualify it down to only in New Zealand.
                      2. Require proof that ALL other cases get as much attention as this.

                      Originally it only required a single case anywhere to prove your argument wrong. Now you are going to claim you are in the right unless I can prove that every single case of sexual assault got at least as much activity on the MSM. Every single case!

                      No, you prove your original point. You made it. You justify it.
                      Or admit you are just talking out of your arse.

                    • Stunned mullet

                      If DTB were to speak out of his arse his arguments would likely make for better reading.

                      ‘Parp RWNJ, Phweep neoliberal…Hmmmpfff can’t afford the rich…plop.’

            • tc 4.2.1.2.1.2

              Coverage on Maori TV is IMO indicative with it’s Nat stacked management and board.

            • JohnSelway 4.2.1.2.1.3

              Bullshit Draco – you know as well as I do this would be covered if it were involving the National party and if it wasn’t you, just like me and everyone here, would be screaming about the media covering it up (or some such).

              • Anne

                Wrong. It’s well known the Young Nats had a history of bad behaviour. Not saying they still do but a few years ago… ask David Farrar. Why did it never make the public arena? It was covered up. No MSM histrionics there – oh no.

                • JohnSelway

                  ” It’s well known the Young Nats had a history of bad behaviour”

                  Citation needed. If you are going to accuse others of similar things you really need to back it up because they are serious allegations

                  • Louis

                    Ever hear of the princess parties? Did you not read Dirty Politics by Nicky Hager?

                    • JohnSelway

                      Sure I read it but d no one has come forward with any complaint so you can’t just make stuff up based upon that.

                      Until such a time as someone complains or an actual incident has been established it is meaningless speculation

                    • Anne

                      Warning! Right wing concern troll calling him/herself John Selway has been sent to TS. Wonder who his/her masters are… and what his/her previous mission was?

                      Now there’s a real conspiracy theory for the deniers to dig their fangs into. 🙂

                    • JohnSelway

                      WTF?

                    • Stunned Mullet

                    • weka

                      That was such a terrible movie though. I couldn’t make it past the first half hour.

                    • Keepcalmcarryon []

                      Disagree, it’s a brilliant movie.
                      Stunned mullet needn’t think of himself in such un PC terms though, I’m sure he’s a smart guy who just lost his ideological way

                    • Anne

                      Of dear… minus a s.o.h. too Selway? Should have added 😛

                  • reason

                    Not just the young nats ( or old dirty politics Nats ), and their email trail of conspiracy to get woman pissed …. to have drunken sex.

                    But a government who promote and elevate one of their mp’s to oversee law and order …. despite being aware of serious allegations against their mp ….. https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/64362474/nat-mp-in-police-assault-inquiry

                    http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/what-really-happened-to-mike-sabin-john-key-and-the-housing-minister/

                    http://mananews.co.nz/wp/?p=2345

                    Or Nationals response to NZ men and our high rate of abuse … and the resulting high number of victims …. woman & kids

                    Specifically the dishonest rape culture attack visited upon David Cunliffe,….then Labour leader in an election run up.

                    Cunliffe was attacked, dirty politics style …for saying he was ashamed to be a New Zealand man, in relation to the high rates of abuse we dish out.

                    Ignoring the ugly truth and confirming a sickness in our culture that infects all social strata of men …. Cunliffe was attacked for not being manly or a ‘real man’…..

                    John Key specifically wore a “proud to be a man” tee-shirt.

                    Presumably Farrar ‘polled’ the Nats cynical out of context attack .. and our media joined in the ‘derail’…. I’m sure the millions of alcohol marketing the media soaks up had nothing to do with their ignoring the issue of abuse and violence.

                    The whole thing stands as yet another sorry testament as to how far we have yet to travel … and the obstacles opposing …. a safe respectful society.

                • Stunned Mullet

                  Anne if you know of sexual assaults at any Nat sponsored event or indeed connected to any political party you should report it immediately regardless of when it occurred.

                  I don’t believe there would by anyone who would advise you against such a course of action.

                  • weka

                    Report it to who?

                    Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault. This is the point of #metoo. That’s not even up for question. What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.

                    • JohnSelway

                      “Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”

                      I find that is far far too broad, Weka and basically sounds like all men guilty.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      Report it to who?

                      The police

                      “Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”

                      Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.

                      “What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”

                      If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.

                    • weka

                      “I find that is far far too broad, Weka and basically sounds like all men guilty.”

                      You need to clean out your ears then, and start talking with women who are more than willing at this point to explain. To be clear, I am not saying all men are guilty.

                    • JohnSelway

                      Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.

                      More than happy to ask around though

                    • weka

                      Report it to who?

                      The police

                      Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?

                      “Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”

                      Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.

                      Good for you. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, sexual harassment, abuse and assault is common. I’m not saying all men do this. I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.

                      “What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”

                      If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.

                      Report to who? I can tell you many many stories of women that have been sexually harassed, abused or assaulted. I can’t take those to the police. If you don’t understand why then you need to educate yourself because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy. Rape culture and the issues of reporting to the police are well known dynamics.

                      The second part of that last paragraph doesn’t make sense.

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      weka: I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.

                      Agreed – given how the last PM laughed off harassing a waitress and pulling her hair as just being playful, the kind of comments seen on WO and KB, etc.

                      But the right usually keeps tight control of their dirty linen, so it’s probably contained well away from sunlight.

                    • weka

                      “Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.”

                      I didn’t say that. I said that where men are generally gathered there will be issues of sexual harassment and assault. Political parties, music festivals, workplaces, social gatherings etc. This doesn’t mean that all those places/situations will have sexual harassment/assault all the time, it means that it’s common enough that it’s reasonable to assume that somewhere in recent history there has been sexual harassment or assault at a National Party event. It is common.

                      I’ll tell you a story. A friend of mine once said to me that she had never been sexually assaulted. In the conversation that followed she talked about the times she was felt up on the train or bus, or the time she had a male relative come into the shower with her and she had to push him out. Not all women have such stories, but many do and the common denominator is men. I don’t know what your girlfriend can tell you, but I do know that when I go into spaces where women can talk freely, the stories flow.

                    • Venezia []

                      ” where women can talk freely, the stories flow.”
                      Yes, they do in my experience too.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      “……because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy.”

                      Strange, I have exactly the same thought about you.

                      “Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?”

                      Ask for more information and investigate..

                      ‘..I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.”

                      Um where have I said that ? I’m saying that if you have evidence of sexual assault at such events regardless of the party involved they should be reported.

                    • weka

                      Glad we are getting clearer then. There is a lot of evidence to show that women reporting sexual harassment or assault to the police get treated badly. It’s also unrealistic to think that women can do secondhand reports. You saw Lynn’s comments yesterday. So the line that women who start talking about sexual assaults *should report them to the police needs to be understood in the context of those realities.

                      If you already understand the issues in reporting, then your advocating that women report seems suspect. If you don’t understand, then you are arguing from a place of ignorance.

                      You personally believe that Anne or whoever should report assaults they know about the police, but you haven’t argued why that would be useful or meaningful, whereas I’ve stated some pretty well known reasons for why telling women to do that is a problem.

                    • xanthe

                      eeeeeeekkkkk

                    • AB

                      “Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
                      Yep.
                      And if you were tempted to soft-pedal it for sensitive wee souls you could say:
                      “Where there are men gathered along with women in sufficient numbers , there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
                      Then it would be totally unarguable.

                  • Whispering Kate

                    Hearing Weka’s comments, reminds me of occasions (plural) on the London Underground trains being “pressed up” against by guys with “hard ons” when it was crowded. On one occasion I said in the loudest voice I could manage “would the man behind me just take his body off mine, it’s not wanted”. On another occasion a friend and myself were in a carriage where the seats faced each other, a guy calmly undid his flies and exposed his appendage – to which my friend and I just broke out in hysterics, it was so appalling and funny at the same time.

                    I have never thought of it as assault, but then it happens so often that females become cynical and disgusted and just ignore it. I am quite sure as Weka says, in a free flowing chatter with a bunch of women these stories would be rife. A neighbour once said to me “a man’s brain is in his penis”. I often think of that comment.

                    • weka

                      This is why I find the argument of ‘you should go do the police’ either ridiculous or part of an agenda. Imaging going to the police and telling them that some man who you don’t know and can’t identify just put his hand down your trousers. It’s beyond ridiculous. And that’s not even getting to the issues around power and intimidated, who believes who, the sexism, misogyny and rape culture within the police etc.

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      In my younger days, I was confronted by flashers in Shortland Street (broad daylight), near Long Bay, Auckland (broad daylight) and Spain and Portugal a few times. These are the ones I recall. Also sexually harassed and followed in Carlile in the north of England.

                      I got to thinking there was something wrong with me that I attracted these types. They seemed to be all over the world.

                    • Anne

                      Yes. I lost count of the number of times men exposed themselves to me. Over time it became ho hum… here we go again. I recall an occasion many years ago when I was walking my two dogs round a local coast line. I looked behind me and there was this tall, gangly, bearded fellow, stark naked, leaping over rocks towards me. I took off… and my dogs followed suit. There we were flying over the rocks at the rate of knots… our feet barely touching the ground. The bearded torso gave up and wandered off. We arrived safely at a well patronised beach and I swear my dogs were grinning with sheer joy.They hadn’t enjoyed themselves so much in a long time.

                      I didn’t bother to tell the police because I knew they would do nothing.

                    • Anne

                      Oh and for a bit of a giggle… a woman I knew had a similar experience at the same bit of coastline albeit a different naked body involved. She had a large dog with her who waltzed up to the offender and bit his appendage. She rapidly took herself and the dog as far away from the scene of the crime as was possible and never returned.

        • Baba Yaga 4.2.1.3

          “I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. ”

          Probably. But then Labour used texts by Chris Bishop to try to destroy his career. And ‘coincidentally’ around the same time as news of this whole business at the Labour camps started leaking out.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.3.1

            But then Labour used texts by Chris Bishop to try to destroy his career.

            [Citation needed]

            You really do need to be able to back up an accusation like that.

            • James 4.2.1.3.1.1

              Within a couple of days of the assaults the bishop “story” broke.

              From HDPA on newstalkzb: “I’ll be honest. I knew about this before the election. I knew there were messages about this. Guess how I found out? From the Labour Party. The Labour Party knew about this. So the only reason it has been delayed is probably because the parents would finally talk about it. The Labour Party has probably been working on the parents to try and get them to talk to the media. So this in my opinion is a Labour Party hit job. And I think it’s actually disgusting to be honest.”

              • Graeme

                And yet Slater considered the attack on Bishop to be coming from within National at the time. https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/02/bishop-victim-blue-blue-attack/

                “Several reliable sources are saying that Chris Bishop was the victim of some utu by Bill English and his faction after Bishop, Nikki Kaye and Todd Muller were held responsible for the chatter about Bill’s leadership and leaking to Barry Soper and Richard Harman.

                Apparently, Bill is pretty pissed off with the three of them, and had been saving up the “Chris Bishop is a pervert” story for when he next got out of line. ”

                In this case I’d tend to go with Slater’s view rather than someone who buys a firearm by impersonating a police officer. The girl has a strong track record of making shit up.

                • James

                  you have anything to back up that HDPA was telling porkies on this occasion?

                  • weka

                    Only her reputation, and you know, Dirty Politics.

                    What you quoted about is her opinion based on sweet fuck all. She has a theory about the timing, and no evidence.

                    • James

                      It’s not an opinion she stated that she was told by “the Labour Party “

                      That seems fairly clear cut. I do not recall labour denying it.

                    • weka

                      Well good for you if you believe her. I don’t see any reason to based on how she framed the whole thing. Which isn’t to say that someone in Labour didn’t say something to her, it’s just that we have no idea who or why or how or what the context was. In other words, this wasn’t journalism, it was some hack abusing her position of power by stating her partisan reckons on the radio. If you think that constitutes useful evidence, that’s up to you.

                    • Louis

                      @ James. It’s the way she has worded it. Your quote doesn’t actually say Labour “told” her and at the end of your quote, she points out that it’s her opinion.

                  • Graeme

                    Should edit that to being party to impersonating a police officer. However, had Gun City done their job properly HDPA would have been answering hard questions in a bare room with a desk, and getting used to stainless steel decor.

                    Bottom line, she obtained a firearm without having a firearms licence. Naughty.

                • Baba Yaga

                  Your willingness to believe Slater over anyone is touching.

                  • Graeme

                    In this case he’s probably closer to the action and reality than HDPA.

                    • Baba Yaga

                      “In this case he’s probably closer to the action and reality than HDPA.”

                      That may be true, but there are other factors at play here. Slater can’t stand English (there is deep set and long term personal history there), and so he was happy to implicate English in this. Yet even he accepted this came originally from a (failed) attempt by Labour:

                      “…Labour are behind the information; the girls and families involved all have close Labour links. It is disgusting that Labour parents are prepared to use their children as bait, but that’s Labour for you. The fact is that Labour tried and failed to run this hit BEFORE the elections.”
                      https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/02/bishop-victim-blue-blue-attack/

                      And, as Carolyn points out below, Slater now blames labour squarely for the Bishop leak, based on https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/03/now-we-know-why-bishops-snapchat-issues-were-leaked/.

                      If nothing else, Slater knows dirty politics when he sees it.

                • Chris

                  Those remarks from slater weren’t just made in passing. He claims to have everything all sewn up and explained.

                  • Graeme

                    Given what Bishop was doing, (communicating with “teenagers” on Snapchat) it’s more than possible that there were multiple hit files held by multiple entities relating to multiple and seperate occurrences.

              • Baba Yaga

                Yes, that. And the timing – something we better understand now that something of a timeline of the labour sex scandal stuff has emerged.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Within a couple of days of the assaults the bishop “story” broke.

                Which is probably just coincidence and you’re just trying to find a link where none exists.

                From HDPA on newstalkzb:

                That’s not what one would call a citation of value. HDPA has it in for Labour.

                What’s needed is a timeline of quotes that shows that it came first from Labour. After all, HDPA may have heard about it from Labour but Labour may have heard about it from National first. Or HDPA heard it from National first but didn’t say anything until she could say she heard it from Labour first.

                And the latter part of that paragraph is obviously a hit piece.

                • Carolyn_Nth

                  I believe it was first reported in the Sunday star times on 11 Feb 2018.

                  In my google search, I found that Soper wrote about it a day or so after the story in SST, saying it was probably no coincidence that it came at a time when Labour was at a low point because of Charter Schools policy.

                  An I read the google blurb of a post on WO about 6 hours ago that says:

                  It was 11 February, just two days after the alleged sexual assaults at the Labour youth camp. Now we know why. Labour thought they were going to be the news after four youths were allegedly sexually assaulted at the camp. Cue the attack on Chris Bishop. Heather Du Plessis-Allan fingered Labour for it …

                  Soper and WO – just opportunists, seeding ideas without any evidence.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Soper and WO – just opportunists, seeding ideas without any evidence.

                    That seems to be the typical MO of RWNJs. They simply invent shit to throw at their opponents and we’re seeing more of it now.

                    • JohnSelway

                      “They simply invent shit to throw at their opponents and we’re seeing more of it now.”

                      yeah but it isn’t an exclusively RW phenomena – people here have been throwing around the idea that this whole Labour Youth Camp story is part of a media conspiracy to drown out embarrassing stories about National. Both sides do it

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      yeah. And the Timeline for the Labour Summer Camp abuse doesn’t really fit.

                      From RNZ:

                      Sat 10 February – A 20-year-old man at the camp assaults or harasses four 16-year-olds: two young men and two young women.

                      Sun 11 February – The 20-year-old is ejected from the camp. Young Labour consults with all four victims. They say they do not want to take the matter further. Some ask that their parents are not told.

                      Wed 14 February – Labour’s general secretary Andrew Kirton is told of the harassment. He said he then told Young Labour to ask if the victims wanted “support or take it further”.

                      So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed.

                      An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.

                    • Baba Yaga

                      “So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed. An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.”

                      Hi Carolyn

                      I don’t think that is too much of a stretch. If you look at the news cycle in the era of digital communications, news gets on-line incredibly fast. Evidence of that is the amount of crappily written articles that appear on-line.

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      Baba, my link is to an article on Press Reader – that provides scans of the hard copy of newspapers.

                      So it first appeared in the hard copy of the SST on that Sunday morning.

                    • Baba Yaga

                      “So it first appeared in the hard copy of the SST on that Sunday morning.”

                      Hi Carolyn…It’s tight, but still possible. The alleged incidents at the camp took place on the 10th. Copy deadlines for the SST are into the early morning of the 11th. I know you’re using the timing of when the camp organisers were informed of the sexual abuse allegations, but that isn’t necessarily the first time this event was aired, social media and all that. Both HDPA and Slater (now) claim the Chris Bishop text story was a Labour hit job, and the timing fits.

                  • Graeme

                    But on 13 February Slater was saying the Bishop thing was blue on blue.

                    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14-03-2018/#comment-1460536

                    • Carolyn_Nth

                      Well, that’s the trouble with lying so often – you forget and start to contradict your own lies.

              • reason

                How does your posting now square up with your rather creepy and nasty defense of drunken Rugby players accused of sexual abuse James ? ….

                Specifically the Waikato chiefs ….. and their cover-up …. where the whole team took the fall ….. and the actual guilty perpetrators were Never named.

                It took place around the same time Key was always photographed pissing it up in the All Blacks changing room …. and was on the cover of some rugby mag.

        • Carolyn_Nth 4.2.1.4

          At this stage, it’s looking like the Labour Party needs to look at its systems. Of course Labour opponents will use such stories any way they can against Labour.

          But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .

          It may be hard to take for any strong Labour supporter. But the Labour summer camp was poorly managed – by Ardern and Kirton’s own admissions. And there is work that needs to be done there.

          At this stage, without all the facts, the prime consideration should be for the survivors/victims.

          • Anne 4.2.1.4.1

            But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .

            Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.

            Open Mike is the right place to do so and if you don’t like it Carolyn_Nth then don’t participate.

            • Carolyn_Nth 4.2.1.4.1.1

              Really? If I read something on TS that I disagree with, I am quite entitled to state that disagreement.

              In this case, I think it is very important to give consideration to the survivors. So I will state my views.

              Comparing allegations of sexual assault to the scurrilous attacks on Cunliffe’s form letters etc, IS diminishing the seriousness of sexual assault – and that needs to be said. Denial of the seriousness is not helpful in moving forward.

              I do think the left in NZ has a lot to learn about dealing with sexual harassment and abuse within the left. Unfortunately it happens – and it has been happening for a long time.

              The media also is beating up on the topic in ways that are not helpful. Judith Collins is throwing her oar in, in a very unhelpful way.

              I’m glad to see Labour are owning up to their mismanagement of the camp and aftermath, and are taking the time to investigate and and review their systems and protocols.

              The left needs to be looking at ways to improve on this issue.

              • Anne

                No-one has said you aren’t entitled to state a disagreement. It was merely an alternate course of action which I’m equally entitled to promote.

                I refer you to a commnent @ 5 on today’s ‘Nicky Hager’s post – it would seem others are also thinking along similar lines to me and I don’t see any subsequent remonstrations.

            • Stunned Mullet 4.2.1.4.1.2

              “……those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans”

              To be fair the majority of bans handed out were only to those from the perceived political right who ignored the instructions, not those from the perceived political left who ignored the instructions.

            • weka 4.2.1.4.1.3

              Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.

              The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS. I put some boundaries on that, including saying don’t politicise the issue. This doesn’t mean don’t talk about Labour’s responsibilities in this situation, it means don’t use sexual assault as an excuse for partisan attacks on Labour. If people want to critique Labour on this, that’s ok by me, although I think there are still issues there in terms of what information we have access to. Both the MSM vulturing, but also the needs to not dig into the information around the people who were assaulted.

              It’s a given for me that any time something happens that puts Labour at a disadvantage, or shows some weaknesses in them, the right will attack and those attacks are likely to include Dirty Politics. That’s the political environment we live in now. I think with sexual assault we need to be careful to not make the party politics more important than the rape culture politics, hence the post yesterday. But it doesn’t mean the party politics are unimportant completely.

              • Anne

                The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS.

                Yes weka, that was what I meant but didn’t express it at all well. I value your efforts to provide a safe place where women in particular can talk about their personal experiences and discuss the ramifications of sexual misconduct and other forms of abuse primarily suffered by women.

          • lprent 4.2.1.4.2

            As far as I could see, the Young Labour summer camp has always been managed on a pretty amateur basis. That is because Labour doesn’t manage them. They are managed by Young Labour, an organisation that has permanent turnover issues for obvious reasons. They are pretty good at getting along luminaries from the Labour party and its MPs, but as much as anything else that is because they ask and many of those being asked have been to them in their youth.

            (I do feel that it is important to emphasize this for people who seem to ignore the important points).

            I have been to a few of them over the decades generally because one of my younger relatives wanted to go and I could provide transport. I have never noticed the Labour party organisation being in charge. Just some older Labour party members being drafted in from the local area and others like myself turning up as well.

            • Stunned Mullet 4.2.1.4.2.1

              Young Labour seem very much to me to be hand in glove with Labour.

              http://www.younglabour.org.nz/

            • Carolyn_Nth 4.2.1.4.2.2

              Thanks. Useful info.

              However, this seems to set up a problem, or potential problem that has surfaced with these sexual assault allegations.

              Young Labour IS a wing of the Labour Party, and all Labour Party members between 15 yrs and 26 yrs are automatically members. i also see that the Young Labour twitter account is authorised by Andrew Kirton.

              I can understand wanting to give Young Labour a fair amount of autonomy in their constitution, election of officers, and, by the sound of it, organising the summer camp.

              Nevertheless, when the sexual assault allegations were made, Kirton was brought in to deal with it. I get the impression he wasn’t called in until someone on Facebook contacted Megan Woods about it (one of the victims, though Woods didn’t know that). Woods referred it to Kirton. [didn’t Kirton also deal with the allegations about Labour Party interns last year?]

              And the PM is speaking about it and taking some responsibility for the management of the allegations, and an investigation. Though i would have thought the PM doesn’t have a lot of responsibility for the wider Labour Party? Isn’t there some degree of autonomy between Parliamentary Labour and the Party?

              However, the case does reflect on the Labour Party generally – Young Labour partly works to promote the Labour Party to young people. And, to some extent it is seen as an indication of the left in general.

              I’ve seen several comments on social media from older adults talking about the need for adequate adult supervision of 16 yr olds at parties.

              I’ll wait to see how the Labour Party investigation deals with this weakness in the Young Labour set up – affiliated but somewhat autonomous.

          • JohnSelway 4.2.1.4.3

            +1 Anne – we need to stop this tribalism bullshit. Labour has fucked this up.
            I like Labour, I vote Greens and I think Ardern is the best PM we have had in a long time but despite all that – Labor fucked it and it sounds like it isn’t the first time so they have work to do

        • Chris T 4.2.1.5

          Except it’s all coming from Labour

          A week after Ardern’s PI trip needing to get as much media as poss and a week before Parliament comes out of recess and there would be questions being hammered at them.

          Which is interesting coincidental timing in it’s own right if you were overly cynical.

          • alwyn 4.2.1.5.1

            That really does sound cynical, even if true.
            I guess it is as good a way as any for the Parliamentary Labour Party to get the spotlight off their own failures and to pin the attention onto someone else.
            Now they can insist on Kirton’s resignation and claim it illustrates how the strong minded(?) Labour leader won’t tolerate any misbehaviour in the party and …… Look a squirrel!

            • Chris T 4.2.1.5.1.1

              They just announced on the radio the police are launching an investigation

            • Stuart Munro 4.2.1.5.1.2

              Meh – the police will take it over soon, and a few more facts will come out. It’s not a scandal on the scale of Darren Hughes on the facts so far.

        • Cinny 4.2.1.6

          Wondering that as well Anne. Haven’t heard many public comments from the nats about it.

          I’m absolutely DISGUSTED in the right wingers on the kiwiblog, they are lapping it up and the comments are obscence and insincere with no regard for the victims, it’s filthy over there. No moderation, commentors are free to spread lies, no facts required. Tossing around words like orgy etc like that are getting their own perverse sexual rise out of it all. Freaking vulgar behaviour.

          Where were kiwiblog when other sexual assault issues were highlighted in the media? Not one dedicated thread re Russell McVeagh sexual assaults.

          Meanwhile rightwingers are not discussing Operation Burnham and I doubt very much that any nat mps will be asking questions about that in the house next week.

          • JohnSelway 4.2.1.6.1

            Come on now – you know just like I do that if this was the Young Nats the left would be lapping it up too. A case(s) like this – politics should be secondary. Sexual assault claims are the same no matter what stripe if originates

            (though I have no doubt commentators here would be far more circumspect and respectful than those angry old dicks at Kiwiblog. I haven’t even looked over there since this story broke).

            • Cinny 4.2.1.6.1.1

              Agreed re a case like this politics should come secondary.

              If you do look at kiwiblog, prepare yourself first, it’s repugnant.

              Really proud of the TS moderators re yesterdays thread on the subject, thanks for making it a safe place to comment and share.

              • Stunned Mullet

                Were you really proud in relation to the comments regarding Chris Bishop ?

              • JohnSelway

                I don’t think I can stomach Kiwiblog right now.

                They keep going on about the ‘illegitimate’ PM with her ‘bastard’ child….

                Makes me retch

              • Carolyn_Nth

                I rarely go to KB. But judging by the kinds of comments I’ve seen on there in recent times, the right have no reason to be complacent or throw stones at the left on gender matters – there are too many misogynistic, racist, homophobic comments there – supports and promotes rape culture and abuse of relatively powerless groups. To be avoided if possible.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.2.1.7

          Maybe the 20 year old was a National party plant?

          Sheesh, i’ll fetch my tinfoil hat now. You’ll be seeing Nats under the bed soon

        • The Fairy Godmother 4.2.1.8

          I have the same feeling about it Anne. Also remember what happened to Len Brown. Bevan Chuang was involved with dirty politics maestro Jordan Williams. She was I think used as bait. Really fishy. Of course Brown shouldn’t have fallen for the bait but I wonder why the perpetuator was there is it chance or is someone else behind it. I think the same chanels are being used and Murphy has been up to his neck in DP too.

          • Stunned Mullet 4.2.1.8.1

            I beg your pardon ?

            Are you suggesting Ms Chuang was coerced or otherwise into a relationship with Len Brown by a party or parties unnamed ?

            • The Fairy Godmother 4.2.1.8.1.1

              Well she was also in a relationship with Luigi Wewege from John Palinos camoaignand he leaks it to Williams from the “taxpayers union” and he went to the press so who knows what went on.

          • Anne 4.2.1.8.2

            I have the same feeling about it Anne.

            Yes. It’s getting more obvious by the hour Fairy Godmother. Look at the way the rw trolls are now attempting to undermine individuals on this site.

            Andrew Kirton won’t resign. He’s proving to be far too valuable to the party.
            That is why he is being discredited.

            As lprent has already pointed out, Young Labour run their own youth camps – something which will now have to change. It’s to Kirton’s credit he’s shielding them and taking the hits for this apparent muck up.

            • JohnSelway 4.2.1.8.2.1

              I personally don’t think anyone should resign over this but a public mea culpa by someone should be offered

        • Louis 4.2.1.9

          Increasingly, that’s the impression I’m getting Anne. The defender of John key, Mike Hoskings, is demanding Kirton’s resignation. Hope he ignores it.

        • Enough is Enough 4.2.1.10

          Anne

          For better or worse, the media will go to town on any sort of event which involves, political parties involved in allegations of sexual Impropriety. This isn’t a conspiracy and to compare it to the David Cunliffe incident is really diminishing the seriousness of a sexual assault.

          • Anne 4.2.1.10.1

            It was not a comparison. It was merely an example (in inverted commas) that happened to spring to mind as I was typing, and which in my view typifies the sort of DP behaviour currently being run on this particular issue involving the recent Labour Youth camp.

            • Enough is Enough 4.2.1.10.1.1

              Do you recall the media coverage around John Key inappropriately touching a pony tail.

              Its not dirty politics for the media to report on these things.

        • rightly or wrongly 4.2.1.11

          Anne,
          The only acts of destruction here have been at Kirton’s own hands.

          1 He allowed an ill supervised event to go ahead with excess alcohol being drunk by underage children.

          2 When he became aware of the sexual offending, he closes it down and covers it up and hopes it goes away.

          His actions were never victim focused, they were party focused – hoping to avoid bad publicity.

          If he was so victim led with his responses why were the victims complaining to MP’s that nothing was being done?

          Why – now the parents have found out through the media – do we see that the victims are heading to complain to the Police. An option they should have been encouraged to pursue at the earliest opportunity.

          No one in their right mind should expect a vulnerable and confused 15 or 16 year old to have the ability to make a rational, adult decision around the best way to deal with something as personal as unwanted sexual assault.

          That’s why their parents and the Police are there to discuss support and legal options for redress.

          Minimizing sexual molestation and pretending it doesn’t matter is what you would expect from a cult or some inbred red neck community, not from a Political Party that prides itself on its progressive and diverse ‘inclusiveness.’

          Hint: Its not too ‘judgey’ to report sexual molesters to the Police no matter what their political colour.

      • Herodotus 4.2.2

        Sorry but disagree with the view on how AK and his advisors have handled this
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102201208/Labour-Party-confirms-sexual-misconduct-at-camp-parents-and-police-not-told
        “He said he wouldn’t change the way the party had handled the situation but in future would tell Ardern if that was what she wanted.”
        Question without telling our PM how does she know if she wants to know is that not what a good PM’s minder is there for, to shield them and allow plausible deniability ?
        Given how this story has grown, as we are feed more information. That AK would have only told our PM, displays for me his inability to discern how the media reacts to a political story (that was going to “get out”) and that it is part of his job description to minimise such damage from a story NOT feed it.

        • Craig H 4.2.2.1

          Shades of Yes Minister with the need to know discussion.

        • Cinny 4.2.2.2

          Learning curve for AK, but I really feel he was sincere in his interviews this morning on the telly.

          PM is giving a presser about it at 3pm

          • Ms Fargo 4.2.2.2.1

            Interestingly the nats are being very quiet. I wonder…?

            • chris73 4.2.2.2.1.1

              When someones shooting themselves in the foot its best to keep quiet lest you take the focus away

    • mary_a 4.3

      @ Chris T (4) … and information has been released that NZDF and the previous National government mislead, lied to and deceived NZ on the activities of Operation Burnham and the atrocities inflicted on civilians.

      But do we see this appalling event splashed across the headlines? No we do not. Why? Because there has been some alleged sexual assault incidents at a Labour Youth camp (which I’m not condoning by any means), media is using as a diversion tactic to take the heat off National, in an attempt to discredit the Labour led government!

  4. savenz 6

    Doesn’t seem like much of a penalty to me. They made over a million dollars on this speculation and have to pay $847k. So they still profit over $100,000+ after doing it. Great disincentive! sarcasm.

    Also where was the lawyer and real estate agent in all this, they should be fined!

    It should be made impossible though the real estate process
    for this to happen.

    If you encourage people to speculate who don’t speak English or live in the country this is bound to happen, of course they may not be aware of the rules!

    The OIA is a scam anyway because they just rubber-stamp everything anyway!

    Chinese buyers fined $847k after failing to get consent to buy $5m cliff-top Auckland mansion

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12011961

  5. Whispering Kate 7

    The honeymoon is over for Labour and the PM. The sooner she gets a trouble shooter in who can run a tight ship the better. Heather Simpson should be shipped in and have this government whipped into shape. It’s not as though they didn’t know what was ahead of them with a very strong muck raking opposition on the benches who have many skilled personnel in the wings doing their work for them.

    Discipline is needed and its not evident at present. With this new infant on the way the PM is going to be out of the picture for a while, a perfect time for mischief, I just hope Winnie is on to it. If not, its a bleak time ahead for the Labour led government and they have been given full warning of it.

    • Carolyn_Nth 7.1

      Heather Simpson was shipped in to work with the Labour-led government at the end of last year.

      Listener, Jan 2018, Mike Williams said,

      Ardern’s Government also has the benefit of having on tap such wise heads as Helen Clark, Dame Annette King and Sir Michael Cullen, as well as the reassuring presence of Heather Simpson in deep cover behind the scenes.

      • Bill 7.1.1

        Kinda like NZ Labour’s very own House of Lords….or some of the more prominent people the voting public voted out of office some ten years ago finding a way to cling on in there.

        I don’t believe it’s going to end well.

    • JanM 7.2

      I wouldn’t get too exercised just yet. The muckrakers will disgust all but the most dedicated Nat if they keep this up!

      • The Fairy Godmother 7.2.1

        Yep I agree. The whole thing is just too convenient. Also Murphy is a totally discredited DP player so I don’t trust him at all to have an independent stance or actually do the job as a journalist.

  6. UncookedSelachimorpha 8

    Yet again the media parrots a story complaining that an industry cannot get enough workers – workout any mention whatsoever of the pay and conditions currently on offer!!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/country/352499/dairy-farmers-struggle-to-find-workers

    I live in a dairy farming area – and the pay and conditions are commonly complete rubbish. Their only acceptable solution – import third-world pay and conditions. If you want workers – pay for them!

    • Grey Area 8.1

      Absolutely! We had the same thing today in HB Today about apple pickers. No mention of what orchardists are paying them. Time for a text to editor methinks.

      • mac1 8.1.1

        I saw an article which said the HB pickers got paid above the minimum pay rate. But no actual sum mentioned. Very little actual uptake from the 5% HB unemployed.

        It perhaps is a bit like me in the 80s when out of work for a short period and on the unemployment benefit, that a garlic grower offered me about $10 per 40 hr week more than the benefit but he then told me that was only for days that were worked. Rainy days were not paid. More than one days’ rain in a three week period saw me worse off. No longer on the benefit, and probably earning less. I found another job.

    • Ed 8.2

      This media is a neoliberal propaganda machine.

  7. eco maori 9

    Thanks for unblocking me

    • eco maori 9.1

      Good evening News Hub on TV 3 its a sad day when you hear that the Great Steven Hawkins died we have lost such a intelligent man Kia kaha Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 9.1.1

        News Hub It a good day the America cup venue looks like they are going to agree on a plan that limites damage to our sea environment. Eco Maori says that the bad publicity that Labour is receiving at the minute was a set up how easy would it have been to pay someone to do that at the young Labour function there is a lot of nasty people out there who will not stop at anything to achieve there goal of undermining and damaging Labours Mana Ka kite ano

        • Stunned mullet 9.1.1.1

          Good grief – just stop.

          • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1

            Eco’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.

            Once you consider that, everything makes sense.

            • Carolyn_Nth 9.1.1.1.1.1

              At this stage repeating unfounded rumours are not helpful. it’s easy to start such a rumour.

              Everything makes sense to me without that conspiracy theory. Let the investigation roll, then we will see.

              • Muttonbird

                Fair enough. There’s evidence both these organisations attempt to infiltrate the other. That’s what you get when you mix kids and politics.

                • Carolyn_Nth

                  I know many people would like to believe it didn’t happen. but I’ve seen some pretty atrocious behaviour from young people in my time, left and right – especially from young immature men.

                  I read somewhere the alleged perp was pretty mortified when confronted with his behaviour the next day.

                  It doesn’t help the investigation or the survivors to repeat rumours without solid evidence.

            • chris73 9.1.1.1.1.2

              Every time I think someone can’t get anymore delusional someone else proves me wrong

              Either the National party sent a 20 year old into the party to commit a serious sexual crime (which if convicted for would no doubt have serious repercussions on travel, employment, probably end up on a list etc) just to discredit Labour

              or some guy got drunk and took advantage of the situation

              You are really scraping the bottom of the barrell

            • JohnSelway 9.1.1.1.1.3

              ” I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.”

              Jesus Christ man – are people that tribal with their politics they just accept what is in front of them? It has to somehow be a big conspiracy?

              • Carolyn_Nth

                Actually, what does it change if the guy was a Nat? Young Labour still failed to provide a safe environment.

                If it was a Nat plant set on discrediting the Labour Party, why has it taken so long to surface?

                And, basically, it just looks like the left trying to blame shift and avoid responsibility.

                So, let the investigation roll. Labour seems to now be making a very good response.

              • Muttonbird

                Nicky Hager’s book proved there are conspiracies of this nature. Any and all malevolence is possible from the right wing then they are desperate to regain or hold onto power.

              • JohnSelway

                I see a former young labour member on twitter saying she was asked by them to infiltrate the young nats so it works both ways. But regardless – it doesn’t matter if the person was a young Nat, a young labour or fucking young Freemason.

                What Carolyn said above – shifting blame to some conspiracy is completely unhelpful and stupid

            • alwyn 9.1.1.1.1.4

              “Muttonbird’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was the son of a Labour Cabinet Minister
              Once you consider that, everything makes sense”.

              There, how’s that for another rumour?

            • rightly or wrongly 9.1.1.1.1.5

              So does that mean Kirton’s below average response which has ended up embarrassing the PM and the party mean that he’s a Nat plant as well?

              Maybe the 4 victims are in on it too?

              Maybe Simon Bridges dropped off a trailer load of free booze to precipitate it all?

              Maybe he made the victims wear ‘hand magnets’ that unwittingly attracted the 20 year old’s hand down their pants?

              Seesh. I’ve heard of one eyed supporters but thats just being a bit too hopeful.

              • Muttonbird

                The Nats obviously rate Kirton highly to have the Dirty Politics machine engaged against him. It’s a risky business.

            • Monty 9.1.1.1.1.6

              Wow what a comment. A person in NZ willing to risk a criminal sexual assault conviction with all the life time stigma for a political party. You should either have to put up evidence or withdraw. That is a massive accusation and should have to back that up.

          • Ed 9.1.1.1.2

            Yes please do sm.

        • eco maori 9.1.1.2

          News Hub more bad weather Ingrid its all good for Eco Maori has finished my outdoor mahi all this rain is good for farming . These a phenomenon when the townies are happy dry hot weather the farmers are unhappy and when its a wet season like we have now the farmers are happy ka kite ano

  8. Ad 10

    Is anyone going to the “Climate Change & Business Conference Seminar – New Year, New Government, New Approach” with James Shaw tomorrow night?

    • alwyn 10.1

      I gather two of the Green MPs have been coerced into attending.
      That’ll make three people there then.
      The other Green MPs are all on overseas jaunts I understand.

  9. McFlock 11

    Damn, it’s easy to look through 150 comments when you ignore most of the threads where tory fuckwits are suddenly pretending they care about sexual assault of people they don’t know.

  10. Ed 12

    Why is NZ’s environmental regulator trying to muzzle scientist Mike Joy?
    I wonder….

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/14-03-2018/why-is-nzs-environmental-regulator-trying-to-muzzle-scientist-mike-joy/

    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1

      Ed, thanks for the link to that story.

      Why do corporate/business interests seek to influence government regulatory agencies, Universities, etc., to silence expert critics? It’s because they can’t win evidence-based debates. Also, the chilling effect on others that might be in a position to speak out.

  11. Morrissey 13


    Waikato University’s lame “international law expert” seems to be
    ignorant of Britain’s violations of international law.

    The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 14 March 2018
    Jim Mora, Mai Chen, Michael Moynahan, Caitlin Cherry

    Long time sufferers of this lightweight chat show will be familiar with the witterings of Waikato University’s “international law expert”, one Professor Alexander Gillespie. On one of his most infamously stupid guest appearances, back in 2015, he solemnly pronounced that the United States and Great Britain had tried to bring “freedom and democracy” to the Middle East.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04092015/#comment-1066917

    This afternoon Gillespie was back at it. When host Jim Mora asked him what he thought of Winston Peters’ suggestion that the Russian poisoning incidents should be subject to an international inquiry, the “international law expert” summoned up all the gravitas he could muster and intoned: “The British have a great legal system, and they have a lot of integrity.”

    In an impressive display of self-discipline, no one in the studio even snickered.

    More Al Gillespie idiocy if you can bear it….

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05102016/#comment-1240290
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17082015/#comment-1059852

  12. Southern Man 14

    At least two AMI insurance branches in Christchurch (Riccarton and Hornby) were closed indefinitely from today. My first thought was that AMI management have found a new way to cheat their policy holders. But a security guard told me it was in response to death threats to staff. I have searched through Stuff, past reports on Dairies ditching ciggies, Spy drama on Queen Street, the Harry and Meghan movie, and Reusable toilet paper, but can find no report on the AMI story. Clearly the news is being suppressed – but why? Surely a report on a threat of violence would be a perfect fit with Stuff’s editorial direction?

  13. Cinny 15

    RIP Stephen Hawking

  14. JohnSelway 16

    Damn – I loved Hawkings work

  15. chris73 17

    Considering how the media (and posters on here) reacted to John Key pony tail pulling or Chris Bishop texting I’d say Labour is getting off pretty lightly considering thats now three separate instances of sexual assault in the media

    • Carolyn_Nth 17.1

      Has the current PM been accused of sexually harassing a young man regularly over time – and using her power to laugh it off?

      Has a Labour MP been accused of inappropriate communications with young people? (I’m not someone who went into major attacks on Chris Bishop). Todd Barclay’s another matter – but even then – not sure I spent much time attacking him – then he ran away.

      John Key’s behaviour, though, was appalling. He deserved everything thrown at him.

      Labour failed in it’s care of young people, have owned it, and are trying to develop a better way of providing a safe environment.

      • Cinny 17.1.1

        Proud of Jacinda.

      • chris73 17.1.2

        I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it worse than what Labour is copping now plus there would be post after post on here about it

        John Keys behavior was bizarre but theres been three separate incidences of sexual assault, one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual then some one off incidences

        The media love a political scandal, a political sex scandal even more and yet people talk of a conspiracy

        I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things and so this scandal must somehow be the rights fault or the medias fault or anyone elses fault

        • Louis 17.1.2.1

          “I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it”

          Bet they wouldnt, pretty quiet on the princess parties.

          “John Keys behavior was bizarre”

          Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.

          “one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual”

          In what what way is it business as usual?

          “I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”

          No one thinks like that.

          • chris73 17.1.2.1.1

            “Bet they wouldnt, pretty quiet on the princess parties.”

            Read what he has to say about it but as far as I’m aware there were no complaints raised

            https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/how_hager_got_it_wrong_on_the_princess_party.html

            “Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.”

            For which the media went at him, hard, hell it went global big time (at least as far John Oliver)

            “In what what way is it business as usual?”

            Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.
            Theres now three incidences that we’ve heard of and if its difficult to come forward then that means theres been more than three incidences. So its starting to sound like sexual assault is business as usual at young Labour parties (I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual)

            “No one thinks like that.”

            Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1
            14 March 2018 at 6:48 pm
            Eco’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.

            Once you consider that, everything makes sense.

            • Louis 17.1.2.1.1.1

              The media didn’t report on it. Why?

              So youre defending former Prime Minister John key physically abusing a young women over a period of months that caused her much distress?

              “Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.”

              so you have come to that conclusion on 3 incidents that occurred over a span of how many years?

              Are you saying Labour forced the courts to suppress the case? you know all the details do you? And do you realize that you have contradicted yourself? you said its business as usual then you end by saying “I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual”
              so, which is it?

              Frankly, you are not making much sense.
              You didn’t make a reference to the 20 year old. What you said was “I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”

              That’s what I responded to when I said no one thinks like that.

    • AB 17.2

      It’s raining false equivalences here. Going to put out the sick bag.

      • chris73 17.2.1

        Agreed, what happened at the young Labour parties are much, much worse yet not as much coverage in the media

        • Louis 17.2.1.1

          “much, much worse” compared to what? and what planet are you on? its getting a lot of media coverage.

          • chris73 17.2.1.1.1

            I assumed AB was referring to pony tail pulling and texting so I was agreeing with him that sexual assault is much, much worse (in my opinion anyway)

            “its getting a lot of media coverage.”

            Go to the stuff homepage and you have to scroll down to the National page to get any coverage but some dead ells and jobs kiwis are up the top

            • Ed 17.2.1.1.1.1

              You are busy today.
              Overtime?

            • Louis 17.2.1.1.1.2

              You dont think the former PM physically abusing a young woman at her work over a period of months is not assault? If it had of been anyone else that person would have been charged.

              All media outlets are covering it. Stuff has a fair amounts of articles on it, did you not check out the politics section? the Herald too and Newshub, NH in particular is loaded with articles on it and not much else.

              Yet barely anything on the Defence force having lied. In fact, its getting suitably buried.

  16. chris73 18

    “It’s no worse than what appears to have happened at the former Princess parties – young Nat women being plied with alcohol and well… you can guess the rest.”

    Yes it is worse because something happened at the young Labour party, we don’t know what exactly happened (and quite frankly we don’t need to know) but something wen’t down whereas you have one snippet of an email making reference to a party that no ones any details of and no complaints have been raised so yeah it is worse

    If you care to consider what he has to say about it you can read it here:

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/how_hager_got_it_wrong_on_the_princess_party.html

    “All hushed up and the MSM didn’t touch it with a barge poll.”

    They didn’t touch it because no complaints were made

    “Same set of circumstances with the Labour Party version but this time the MSM are all over it like venomous vultures. What a stark contrast in the responses.”

    Its not the same set of circumstances because we’re now up to three separate incidences, that we know of, including one which went to court

    • Ed 18.1

      Very busy…
      Are you being paid well?

      • chris73 18.1.1

        Thats a freebie, the comment I was replying to must have been deleted

        • Drowsy M. Kram 18.1.1.1

          Your chief ‘concern’ appears to be the ‘party political’ dimension, so please consider that no Labour party politician or staffer has been accused of being the perpetrator of these regrettable assaults.

          Whereas repeated unsolicited hair pulling by a sober PM and National Party leader was (rightly) international news. Of course, the motivation for Key’s assaults was not sexual in any way; honest John might just as well have been tugging on the ponytail of a male waiter. Nevertheless, by a ponytail puller we were led.

          The assaults committed by an allegedly drunken 20-year old are of a more serious nature, but using these assaults to manufacture smears of sexual nature against Labour is simply desperate.

          Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.

          Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)

          • chris73 18.1.1.1.1

            Thats three separate incidences at similar events, run by the same organisation
            and that means, whether you like it or not, that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark

            • Ed 18.1.1.1.1.1

              Busy……

            • Drowsy M. Kram 18.1.1.1.1.2

              “Something rotten in the state of Denmark” – are you being deliberately vague?

              Can you be more precise, or is smearing the name of ‘chris73’s’ game?

              • chris73

                http://www.dictionary.com/browse/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-denmark

                “Note: “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” is used to describe corruption or a situation in which something is wrong.”

                Thats three separate incidences at similar events, run by the same organisation which suggests something is wrong

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)

                  What, precisely, do you (‘chris73’) know or suspect Labour party MPs and/or staffers are ‘guilty’ of? Perhaps something more than poor planning/oversight of these events?

                  What do you think is the ‘something’ that is wrong – be as precise as possible. [Don’t worry, my expectations are low.]

                  Because if you know something, it’s your duty to come forward (with the agreement of the 16-year old victims, of course.)

                  C’mon chris73, be a hero.

                  • chris73

                    I know that there have been three separate incidences. I know one of those incidences went to court. I know that of the latest incident the police were not specifically mentioned. I know that the very next day of the latest incident a smear attack on Chris Bishop was launched. I know that at young Labour parties young men and women are being sexually assaulted.

                    And I know that people like you are trying to minimize whats happened

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Although remote from it, I’m concerned about what has happened to the 16-years olds; I hope that they are being supported, as (I’m sure) do you.

                      And I hope that it doesn’t happen again – although after reading your comments I’m less certain that we share that hope.

                      I KNOW that you’re talking it up (Something Rotten, etc.) – and fair enough, it’s useful to understand your reason for being here.

                    • chris73

                      “Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.”

                      Yup no minimizing or misdirection going on here: even though this happened under young Labour we all that the right are the bad ones…

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      You (almost) said it. [“we all that the right are the bad ones…”]

                      Will admit to ‘minimising’ when you admit to ‘maximising’.

                      But I’ll cop to misdirection; it wasn’t fair to mention the National party’s record of dirty politics and misogyny.

              • Carolyn_Nth

                Methinks he has daddy issues.

            • Psycho Milt 18.1.1.1.1.3

              Thats three separate incidences at similar events…

              My God, it’s almost like sexual assault were a common occurrence or something – surely that couldn’t be possible?

    • Louis 18.2

      No complaint to the police had been laid either until Newsroom published the story without the victims consent.

      So in your mind because nothings been published msm re Young Nats, there’s never been an incident and they are squeaky clean and everyone else is evil?
      Princess parties and other material showing the mindsets of Nats were published in Dirty Politics.
      Your excuses still dont explain why the media never covered it.

  17. Jenny 19

    Stephen Hawking has died

    Aggression has had definite advantages for survival, but when modern technology meets ancient aggression the entire human race and much of the rest of life on Earth is at risk.

    Today in Syria we see modern technology in the form of bombs, chemicals and other weapons being used to further so-called intelligent political ends.

    But it does not feel intelligent to watch as more than 100,000 people are killed or while children are targeted. It feels downright stupid, and worse, to prevent humanitarian supplies from reaching clinics where, as Save the Children will document in a forthcoming report, children are having limbs amputated for lack of basic facilities and newborn babies are dying in incubators for lack of power.

    What’s happening in Syria is an abomination, one that the world is watching coldly from a distance. Where is our emotional intelligence, our sense of collective justice?

    We must work together to end this war and to protect the children of Syria. The international community has watched from the sidelines for three years as this conflict rages, engulfing all hope. As a father and grandfather, I watch the suffering of Syria’s children and must now say: No more.

    Stephen Hawking February 14, 2014

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/stephen-hawking-syrias-war-must-end/2014/02/14/a71dea72-94f0-11e3-83b9-1f024193bb84_story.html?utm_term=.78bb28c43d4b

  18. Jenny 20

    Stephen Hawking lives forever in the hearts of the Palestinian people. And all those who value justice and peace.

    “I accepted the invitation to the Presidential Conference with the intention that this would not only allow me to express my opinion on the prospects for a peace settlement but also because it would allow me to lecture on the West Bank. However, I have received a number of emails from Palestinian academics. They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference. Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster.”

    Stephen Hawking May 3, 2013

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/may/08/hawking-israel-boycott-furore

  19. Jenny 21

    Dr Abu Bashir

    We don’t have enough medicine for patients.

    We don’t have enough medical equipment.

    I want to say to all people: trying to help us, stop the killing, just stop the killing.

    Every day you just try to earn some food to be alive.

    Every day you are under, maybe tomorrow I will not have my food, and maybe I will be under the ruins, destroyed home, and hospital. Maybe I will be passed away.

    I want the people of Eastern Ghouta to live in peace.
    So no siege, no shelling, no bombing.

    That’s what we need. We have rights like everybody in this world.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisReports/videos/831536047032842/

  20. OncewasTim 22

    I’m no bizzniss whizzzz (going forward, on the back of….) but over at Newsroom Pro there’s a vestigayshun into Fonterra and Beingate??? Asking why nothing was learned from Sanlu amonst other issues.
    I reckon there’s a more fundamental question. Why did farmers allow their co-op to be bastardised and corporatised, and now that it may very well be going cow teets up, I’ll be wondering if we’re all supposed to feel pity for those that allowed it all to happen (going forward, on the back of failed Chinese vestmints)

  21. Good morning The AM Show on TV3 Is it common for Both TV 1 an TV 3 news to fan the farcical flames that is around TE Labour Party both channels had this issue in there head line News . And then I see david seenothing trying to lay the blame on Jacinda as if she put a t-shirt on and supported that kind of bad behavior david has heaps of money to get his publicity . You news people need to stop blowing this situation out of proportions as you do on many occasions I hope you like having ECO MAORI back to correct your wrongs against the 99.9% of people. Kia Kaha Labour don’t panics YOU good people have done nothing wrong chin up and keep up the GOOD Battle for the 99.9 % of common Kiwis Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 23.1

      The AM Show I agree that alcohol should not have consumed at that function.
      But alcohol is so ingrained in OUR society it causes hundreds of deaths fills our prisons with people who don’t understand the side effects of consuming alcohol
      the minimie age of alcohol consumption should be razed to 19 I prefer 20 but 19 one year is a easier target one year up at a time . We worship ALCOHOL it in our face every day advertised by many as a drug of choice ??????????. I say someone has to go to put that issue in the past.
      Mark Steven Hawking was a brilliant man Mark nobody is going to solve the theory of everything we are on Papatuanuku mother earth for a very short period of time in its self I say if we had a culture of leaving be hind a better world for the mokos and all the creatures on Papatuanuku we would all be living in utopia now if all our for Fathers had this as a Phenomenon to worship enough said Kia Kaha Labour ka kite ano

      • eco maori 23.1.1

        The Am Show it makes me proud of the mokos Grandchildren of America are staying true to there cause of GUN LAW reforms in America they know that it is them who will have to clean up any mess we the parents grandparents leave for them Kia Kaha USA mokos .
        For people to feel happy you need to feel your own self worth to feel like you have the same rights as the wealthy neighbor have a society were every culture is respected .Amanda it baffles me why Aotearoa has not topped the charts of HAPPIEST society and the Scandinavian country’s top the charts the big picture is we have to stop the control that the 00.1 have on our society we should copy the Scandinavian with there government systems I will bet that there systems are designed to benefit the 99.9% and not just the 00.1 are benefiting from that type of government system. For one to have a happy society don’t have to be rocket scientist we just have to copy the people that are doing the best of look into the vast past to see what system did the best for everyone .Ka kite ano

        • eco maori 23.1.1.1

          Am Show Mark I have a couple of tips I am going to give Prime TV News I will give them to Eric Young at 530 Kia Kaha Eric ka kite ano P.S The salt water hammers ones hands when I first went Scampi fishing I was told to wear gloves I did not listen after 4 days my hands were that swolen that I could just barely move my fingers I made sure to wear gloves after that the scampi have a lot of spikes lol

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