“The kind of consensual frenzy I watched in the House today, with Corbyn’s nuanced position openly derided even on his own side was chillingly familiar to me. When the Commons is unanimous it’s usually unanimously wrong…”
“Saddam Hussein’s armoury of chemical weapons is on standby for use within 45 minutes, Tony Blair’s dossier revealed today. The Iraqi leader has 20 missiles which could reach British military bases in Cyprus, as well as Israel and Nato members Greece and Turkey.
He has also been seeking to buy uranium from Africa for use in nuclear weapons. Those are the key charges in a 14-point “dossier of death” finally published by the Government today.”
The scaremongering seems all so familiar.
Remember this?
“U.K. Parliament report details how NATO’s 2011 war in Libya was based on lies
British investigation: Gaddafi was not going to massacre civilians; Western bombing made Islamist extremism worse.”
‘Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.’
The Gulf of Tonkin
9/11
Iraq
Libya
Syria
Ukraine
And now Skripal.
If it’s shame for for being fooled twice, what word should be used to describe the gullible fools who are going along with this next bout of scaremongering?
I’m led to believe NZ police’s own narc’s detectives were telling the rank and file to throw the kitchen sink at meth, diverting resources from the dreaded green in the 90’s.
They saw it’s potential for mayhem in society and the cash criminals can derive from it. Can’t recall the book a former narc’s officer made that claim in.
So yeah savenz they didn’t try all that hard especially given all the resources still being thrown at the dreaded green.
Also yesterday afternoon another girl came forward with a similar complaint from another Labour camp.
And Mike Williams said this morning there was another similar assault at another Labour party do which went to court so was suppressed and the public didn’t know
Watched Andrew Kirton on both networks this morning, well done to him for fronting up today and for your sincerity. Next time please let Jacinda know about it.
To the teenager who is looking at going to police, you are very brave, I hope it won’t result in a media circus for you, stay strong.
I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. The MO is remarkably similar to that used on David Cunliffe… grab a piece of info. (eg. a letter he had received 12 years previously) and create a false meme around it. Make sure your MSM acolytes keep it on the boil for as long as possible. They all know the truth will out eventually, but that doesn’t matter because by then the damage has already been done.
For the purpose of enlightening readers, I understand Andrew Kirton was head-hunted for the job and he returned from England to take it up a year or two ago. He apparently has a very impressive record and since he took over the day to day running of the Party, the overall performance has improved out of all recognition.
Yeah well Stunny boy, we know your level of cognitive comprehension is fairly average, so its stands to reason you might not be able to recognise the similarities or even remember them.
– Some 20 year old feeling secure enough at a Labour youth event to sexually assault teens. Not just once, but 4 times. He would be correct to feel secure; there would have been no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open
– Labour feeling that it’s Ok to have a party where booze is available to teens. No repercussions.
– Labour feeling it’s Ok to “let the team decide” how to deal with the issues rather than step in with firm leadership when that was clearly missing. No repercussions for the “team” or for the ignorant leadership.
SM: The 20-yr-old wasn’t “secure” – he was very drunk, you muppet. And please note that the 16-yr-old victims have NOT been accused of being drunk, except in the rantings of right-wingers who make it sound as if absolutely everyone was rolling drunk.
“A doctor’s report said the man had had several occasions in the past of “odd” incidents occurring after waking up after drinking and not having knowledge of what he did.
The entertainer had since sworn off alcohol completely and he did not have any “paedophilic tendencies”, the doctor said.”
Family Violence in NZ …. ” The authors found that areas with additional off-licence outlets were associated with 85.4 more police events and 10.3 more vehicle accidents a year. Those with a higher number of clubs and bars were associated with 34.7 more police events and 0.5 more vehicle accidents a year.”
The ‘drug crazed maniac’ that most of us are ever likely to encounter is the angry drunk…….
The drug addict that most of us will ever know is the alcoholic ……
The drug which is ‘pushed’ at us with $millions in marketing is alcohol
The ‘drug pushers’ ( booze company’s ) target our young people
The drug which fuels crime is alcohol
The drug which causes the most brain damage is alcohol
The drug most commonly used in ‘drug rape’ is alcohol
People forget that alcohol is a toxic drug and a drug of dependence.
• Approximately one third of alleged offenders apprehended were recorded to have consumed alcohol prior to offending.[20]
• New Zealand reports on alcohol, crime and anti-social behaviour highlight that each year thousands of New Zealanders are harmed by other people’s drinking and many more are made to feel unsafe.[21]
• Data obtained in 2007 by Alco-Link showed just under half (49.8%) of arrests for violence-related offences involved an offender affected by alcohol as did 78% of arrests for disorder offences.[22]
You seem to have very certain knowledge of what happened, Stunned Mullet. Whence comes this knowledge? I ask this because the answer “My arse” seems all too likely.
Further to your spirited defense of the indefensible and it seems the PM has now acknowledged Labour let ‘their’ kids down and cancelled all further camps pending an independent review of what happened.
SM: You stated that the perpetrator felt “secure”. I called bullshit because when people are very drunk they tend to care very little about feeling “secure” – that is the way alcohol works. So your snide remark about the perpetrator feeling “secure” was bullshit. Is that spelt out clearly enough for you?
This afternoon, party president Nigel Haworth said all Young Labour events would be suspended while an independent review, aided by the Sexual Abuse Prevention Network, takes place.
The review would look at the policies and procedures in relation to the party’s events, including those held by Labour’s sector groups.
There will also be ban on alcohol at any Labour events attended by anyone under 18.
“We need to take the time to properly review issues around how best to create the safest possible environment at all our events,” Mr Haworth said.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said she had been making her own inquiries to fully understand what had gone wrong at the camp.
“It has become very clear to me the extent of our failure to both provide a safe environment for those young people at the Waihi summer camp and to properly deal with serious concerns raised by several attendees in relation to sexual misconduct and alcohol.”
Labour had failed the young people who told the party they had been hurt, Ms Ardern said.
“This failure left them feeling abandoned and I am deeply sorry for that. It’s not good enough, we let them down.”
there would have been no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open
OR
the victims were supported and given time to make their own decisions about who to involve according to their own schedule.
Labour feeling that it’s Ok to have a party where booze is available to teens. No repercussions.
OR
Labour were yet another group where supervision at functions fell down and they do need to take a hard look at themselves in this regard.
Labour feeling it’s Ok to “let the team decide” how to deal with the issues rather than step in with firm leadership when that was clearly missing. No repercussions for the “team” or for the ignorant leadership.
OR
The leadership let the victims decide and supported their decisions, rather than revictimising them simply to cover their own arses from your smear-mongering.
I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.
You don’t believe that I think you’re being too charitable ?
“I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.”
I have no political ends as such, I do admit that my general opinion of politicians and their agents is very low indeed and that they seldom rise above my expectations of them.
I don’t believe you have any particular opinion on what people did or what their motives were, therefore I think that any opinion you claim about that is a lie.
As for your general low opinion of politicians, that’s a nice excuse for avoiding responsibility for whomever you do or do not support. It’s usually used by nats to excuse supporting people who joke about prison rape.
But then if some politicians weren’t complete sociopaths, you might actually have to make a nuanced argument about why you disagreed with their policies and actions rather than just leaping to the worst possible interpretation.
To be fair Ed I don’t think who or what you personally believe adds a great deal to anyone’s argument apart from your own.
@McFlock – I can assure you I have quite strong opinions on teens being assaulted and also the stupidity organisers of functions in allowing abundant alcohol at such events – I’d be surprised if anyone didn’t have strong opinions on such things.
As I have stated a number of times I did not vote for the Nats at the last election – in relation to my general low opinion of politicians I think you’ll find I’m hardly an outlier amongst the general public.
“No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”
I presume you have heard of Harvey Weinstein?
Or will you insist that “citation needed”?
Perhaps you could explain where in DTB’s comment does he mention New Zealand?
His comment was, in full
“No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”.
They don’t all get the same attention but high profile cases (i.e politics, actors, public servants et al) are obviously going to garner more attention.
In fact on Stuff an inappropriate teacher/student relationship has been leading some of the day today – ahead of the Labour case
You really do like to change your argument don’t you.
1. Qualify it down to only in New Zealand.
2. Require proof that ALL other cases get as much attention as this.
Originally it only required a single case anywhere to prove your argument wrong. Now you are going to claim you are in the right unless I can prove that every single case of sexual assault got at least as much activity on the MSM. Every single case!
No, you prove your original point. You made it. You justify it.
Or admit you are just talking out of your arse.
Bullshit Draco – you know as well as I do this would be covered if it were involving the National party and if it wasn’t you, just like me and everyone here, would be screaming about the media covering it up (or some such).
Wrong. It’s well known the Young Nats had a history of bad behaviour. Not saying they still do but a few years ago… ask David Farrar. Why did it never make the public arena? It was covered up. No MSM histrionics there – oh no.
Warning! Right wing concern troll calling him/herself John Selway has been sent to TS. Wonder who his/her masters are… and what his/her previous mission was?
Now there’s a real conspiracy theory for the deniers to dig their fangs into. 🙂
Disagree, it’s a brilliant movie.
Stunned mullet needn’t think of himself in such un PC terms though, I’m sure he’s a smart guy who just lost his ideological way
Or Nationals response to NZ men and our high rate of abuse … and the resulting high number of victims …. woman & kids
Specifically the dishonest rape culture attack visited upon David Cunliffe,….then Labour leader in an election run up.
Cunliffe was attacked, dirty politics style …for saying he was ashamed to be a New Zealand man, in relation to the high rates of abuse we dish out.
Ignoring the ugly truth and confirming a sickness in our culture that infects all social strata of men …. Cunliffe was attacked for not being manly or a ‘real man’…..
John Key specifically wore a “proud to be a man” tee-shirt.
Presumably Farrar ‘polled’ the Nats cynical out of context attack .. and our media joined in the ‘derail’…. I’m sure the millions of alcohol marketing the media soaks up had nothing to do with their ignoring the issue of abuse and violence.
The whole thing stands as yet another sorry testament as to how far we have yet to travel … and the obstacles opposing …. a safe respectful society.
Anne if you know of sexual assaults at any Nat sponsored event or indeed connected to any political party you should report it immediately regardless of when it occurred.
I don’t believe there would by anyone who would advise you against such a course of action.
Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault. This is the point of #metoo. That’s not even up for question. What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.
“What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”
If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.
“I find that is far far too broad, Weka and basically sounds like all men guilty.”
You need to clean out your ears then, and start talking with women who are more than willing at this point to explain. To be clear, I am not saying all men are guilty.
Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.
Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.
Good for you. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, sexual harassment, abuse and assault is common. I’m not saying all men do this. I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.
“What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”
If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.
Report to who? I can tell you many many stories of women that have been sexually harassed, abused or assaulted. I can’t take those to the police. If you don’t understand why then you need to educate yourself because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy. Rape culture and the issues of reporting to the police are well known dynamics.
The second part of that last paragraph doesn’t make sense.
weka: I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.
Agreed – given how the last PM laughed off harassing a waitress and pulling her hair as just being playful, the kind of comments seen on WO and KB, etc.
But the right usually keeps tight control of their dirty linen, so it’s probably contained well away from sunlight.
“Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.”
I didn’t say that. I said that where men are generally gathered there will be issues of sexual harassment and assault. Political parties, music festivals, workplaces, social gatherings etc. This doesn’t mean that all those places/situations will have sexual harassment/assault all the time, it means that it’s common enough that it’s reasonable to assume that somewhere in recent history there has been sexual harassment or assault at a National Party event. It is common.
I’ll tell you a story. A friend of mine once said to me that she had never been sexually assaulted. In the conversation that followed she talked about the times she was felt up on the train or bus, or the time she had a male relative come into the shower with her and she had to push him out. Not all women have such stories, but many do and the common denominator is men. I don’t know what your girlfriend can tell you, but I do know that when I go into spaces where women can talk freely, the stories flow.
“……because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy.”
Strange, I have exactly the same thought about you.
“Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?”
Ask for more information and investigate..
‘..I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.”
Um where have I said that ? I’m saying that if you have evidence of sexual assault at such events regardless of the party involved they should be reported.
Glad we are getting clearer then. There is a lot of evidence to show that women reporting sexual harassment or assault to the police get treated badly. It’s also unrealistic to think that women can do secondhand reports. You saw Lynn’s comments yesterday. So the line that women who start talking about sexual assaults *should report them to the police needs to be understood in the context of those realities.
If you already understand the issues in reporting, then your advocating that women report seems suspect. If you don’t understand, then you are arguing from a place of ignorance.
You personally believe that Anne or whoever should report assaults they know about the police, but you haven’t argued why that would be useful or meaningful, whereas I’ve stated some pretty well known reasons for why telling women to do that is a problem.
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Yep.
And if you were tempted to soft-pedal it for sensitive wee souls you could say:
“Where there are men gathered along with women in sufficient numbers , there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Then it would be totally unarguable.
Hearing Weka’s comments, reminds me of occasions (plural) on the London Underground trains being “pressed up” against by guys with “hard ons” when it was crowded. On one occasion I said in the loudest voice I could manage “would the man behind me just take his body off mine, it’s not wanted”. On another occasion a friend and myself were in a carriage where the seats faced each other, a guy calmly undid his flies and exposed his appendage – to which my friend and I just broke out in hysterics, it was so appalling and funny at the same time.
I have never thought of it as assault, but then it happens so often that females become cynical and disgusted and just ignore it. I am quite sure as Weka says, in a free flowing chatter with a bunch of women these stories would be rife. A neighbour once said to me “a man’s brain is in his penis”. I often think of that comment.
This is why I find the argument of ‘you should go do the police’ either ridiculous or part of an agenda. Imaging going to the police and telling them that some man who you don’t know and can’t identify just put his hand down your trousers. It’s beyond ridiculous. And that’s not even getting to the issues around power and intimidated, who believes who, the sexism, misogyny and rape culture within the police etc.
In my younger days, I was confronted by flashers in Shortland Street (broad daylight), near Long Bay, Auckland (broad daylight) and Spain and Portugal a few times. These are the ones I recall. Also sexually harassed and followed in Carlile in the north of England.
I got to thinking there was something wrong with me that I attracted these types. They seemed to be all over the world.
Yes. I lost count of the number of times men exposed themselves to me. Over time it became ho hum… here we go again. I recall an occasion many years ago when I was walking my two dogs round a local coast line. I looked behind me and there was this tall, gangly, bearded fellow, stark naked, leaping over rocks towards me. I took off… and my dogs followed suit. There we were flying over the rocks at the rate of knots… our feet barely touching the ground. The bearded torso gave up and wandered off. We arrived safely at a well patronised beach and I swear my dogs were grinning with sheer joy.They hadn’t enjoyed themselves so much in a long time.
I didn’t bother to tell the police because I knew they would do nothing.
Oh and for a bit of a giggle… a woman I knew had a similar experience at the same bit of coastline albeit a different naked body involved. She had a large dog with her who waltzed up to the offender and bit his appendage. She rapidly took herself and the dog as far away from the scene of the crime as was possible and never returned.
“I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. ”
Probably. But then Labour used texts by Chris Bishop to try to destroy his career. And ‘coincidentally’ around the same time as news of this whole business at the Labour camps started leaking out.
Within a couple of days of the assaults the bishop “story” broke.
From HDPA on newstalkzb: “I’ll be honest. I knew about this before the election. I knew there were messages about this. Guess how I found out? From the Labour Party. The Labour Party knew about this. So the only reason it has been delayed is probably because the parents would finally talk about it. The Labour Party has probably been working on the parents to try and get them to talk to the media. So this in my opinion is a Labour Party hit job. And I think it’s actually disgusting to be honest.”
“Several reliable sources are saying that Chris Bishop was the victim of some utu by Bill English and his faction after Bishop, Nikki Kaye and Todd Muller were held responsible for the chatter about Bill’s leadership and leaking to Barry Soper and Richard Harman.
Apparently, Bill is pretty pissed off with the three of them, and had been saving up the “Chris Bishop is a pervert” story for when he next got out of line. ”
In this case I’d tend to go with Slater’s view rather than someone who buys a firearm by impersonating a police officer. The girl has a strong track record of making shit up.
Well good for you if you believe her. I don’t see any reason to based on how she framed the whole thing. Which isn’t to say that someone in Labour didn’t say something to her, it’s just that we have no idea who or why or how or what the context was. In other words, this wasn’t journalism, it was some hack abusing her position of power by stating her partisan reckons on the radio. If you think that constitutes useful evidence, that’s up to you.
@ James. It’s the way she has worded it. Your quote doesn’t actually say Labour “told” her and at the end of your quote, she points out that it’s her opinion.
Should edit that to being party to impersonating a police officer. However, had Gun City done their job properly HDPA would have been answering hard questions in a bare room with a desk, and getting used to stainless steel decor.
Bottom line, she obtained a firearm without having a firearms licence. Naughty.
“In this case he’s probably closer to the action and reality than HDPA.”
That may be true, but there are other factors at play here. Slater can’t stand English (there is deep set and long term personal history there), and so he was happy to implicate English in this. Yet even he accepted this came originally from a (failed) attempt by Labour:
“…Labour are behind the information; the girls and families involved all have close Labour links. It is disgusting that Labour parents are prepared to use their children as bait, but that’s Labour for you. The fact is that Labour tried and failed to run this hit BEFORE the elections.” https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/02/bishop-victim-blue-blue-attack/
Given what Bishop was doing, (communicating with “teenagers” on Snapchat) it’s more than possible that there were multiple hit files held by multiple entities relating to multiple and seperate occurrences.
Within a couple of days of the assaults the bishop “story” broke.
Which is probably just coincidence and you’re just trying to find a link where none exists.
From HDPA on newstalkzb:
That’s not what one would call a citation of value. HDPA has it in for Labour.
What’s needed is a timeline of quotes that shows that it came first from Labour. After all, HDPA may have heard about it from Labour but Labour may have heard about it from National first. Or HDPA heard it from National first but didn’t say anything until she could say she heard it from Labour first.
And the latter part of that paragraph is obviously a hit piece.
An I read the google blurb of a post on WO about 6 hours ago that says:
It was 11 February, just two days after the alleged sexual assaults at the Labour youth camp. Now we know why. Labour thought they were going to be the news after four youths were allegedly sexually assaulted at the camp. Cue the attack on Chris Bishop. Heather Du Plessis-Allan fingered Labour for it …
Soper and WO – just opportunists, seeding ideas without any evidence.
“They simply invent shit to throw at their opponents and we’re seeing more of it now.”
yeah but it isn’t an exclusively RW phenomena – people here have been throwing around the idea that this whole Labour Youth Camp story is part of a media conspiracy to drown out embarrassing stories about National. Both sides do it
Sat 10 February – A 20-year-old man at the camp assaults or harasses four 16-year-olds: two young men and two young women.
Sun 11 February – The 20-year-old is ejected from the camp. Young Labour consults with all four victims. They say they do not want to take the matter further. Some ask that their parents are not told.
Wed 14 February – Labour’s general secretary Andrew Kirton is told of the harassment. He said he then told Young Labour to ask if the victims wanted “support or take it further”.
So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed.
An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.
“So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed. An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.”
Hi Carolyn
I don’t think that is too much of a stretch. If you look at the news cycle in the era of digital communications, news gets on-line incredibly fast. Evidence of that is the amount of crappily written articles that appear on-line.
“So it first appeared in the hard copy of the SST on that Sunday morning.”
Hi Carolyn…It’s tight, but still possible. The alleged incidents at the camp took place on the 10th. Copy deadlines for the SST are into the early morning of the 11th. I know you’re using the timing of when the camp organisers were informed of the sexual abuse allegations, but that isn’t necessarily the first time this event was aired, social media and all that. Both HDPA and Slater (now) claim the Chris Bishop text story was a Labour hit job, and the timing fits.
How does your posting now square up with your rather creepy and nasty defense of drunken Rugby players accused of sexual abuse James ? ….
Specifically the Waikato chiefs ….. and their cover-up …. where the whole team took the fall ….. and the actual guilty perpetrators were Never named.
It took place around the same time Key was always photographed pissing it up in the All Blacks changing room …. and was on the cover of some rugby mag.
At this stage, it’s looking like the Labour Party needs to look at its systems. Of course Labour opponents will use such stories any way they can against Labour.
But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .
It may be hard to take for any strong Labour supporter. But the Labour summer camp was poorly managed – by Ardern and Kirton’s own admissions. And there is work that needs to be done there.
At this stage, without all the facts, the prime consideration should be for the survivors/victims.
But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .
Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.
Open Mike is the right place to do so and if you don’t like it Carolyn_Nth then don’t participate.
Really? If I read something on TS that I disagree with, I am quite entitled to state that disagreement.
In this case, I think it is very important to give consideration to the survivors. So I will state my views.
Comparing allegations of sexual assault to the scurrilous attacks on Cunliffe’s form letters etc, IS diminishing the seriousness of sexual assault – and that needs to be said. Denial of the seriousness is not helpful in moving forward.
I do think the left in NZ has a lot to learn about dealing with sexual harassment and abuse within the left. Unfortunately it happens – and it has been happening for a long time.
The media also is beating up on the topic in ways that are not helpful. Judith Collins is throwing her oar in, in a very unhelpful way.
I’m glad to see Labour are owning up to their mismanagement of the camp and aftermath, and are taking the time to investigate and and review their systems and protocols.
The left needs to be looking at ways to improve on this issue.
No-one has said you aren’t entitled to state a disagreement. It was merely an alternate course of action which I’m equally entitled to promote.
I refer you to a commnent @ 5 on today’s ‘Nicky Hager’s post – it would seem others are also thinking along similar lines to me and I don’t see any subsequent remonstrations.
“……those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans”
To be fair the majority of bans handed out were only to those from the perceived political right who ignored the instructions, not those from the perceived political left who ignored the instructions.
I think that says more about the behaviour of RWers than anything, but by all means point out the problematic posts I missed and I’ll take a look.
Going by much of what happened yesterday (and tbh, much of the reactions to moderation all year), I suspect that there are still quite a few commenters who don’t understand what the moderation was for or why it was happening. This is why I keep saying if you don’t understand then ask. Quite a few people yesterday chose to just do what they wanted instead.
I think you have misunderstood what I mean by “don’t politicise rape”. I didn’t say “don’t talk about Labour or National”. In fact I started the post by talking about Labour and I specifically mentioned Dirty Politics and the RW attacks.
Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.
The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS. I put some boundaries on that, including saying don’t politicise the issue. This doesn’t mean don’t talk about Labour’s responsibilities in this situation, it means don’t use sexual assault as an excuse for partisan attacks on Labour. If people want to critique Labour on this, that’s ok by me, although I think there are still issues there in terms of what information we have access to. Both the MSM vulturing, but also the needs to not dig into the information around the people who were assaulted.
It’s a given for me that any time something happens that puts Labour at a disadvantage, or shows some weaknesses in them, the right will attack and those attacks are likely to include Dirty Politics. That’s the political environment we live in now. I think with sexual assault we need to be careful to not make the party politics more important than the rape culture politics, hence the post yesterday. But it doesn’t mean the party politics are unimportant completely.
The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS.
Yes weka, that was what I meant but didn’t express it at all well. I value your efforts to provide a safe place where women in particular can talk about their personal experiences and discuss the ramifications of sexual misconduct and other forms of abuse primarily suffered by women.
As far as I could see, the Young Labour summer camp has always been managed on a pretty amateur basis. That is because Labour doesn’t manage them. They are managed by Young Labour, an organisation that has permanent turnover issues for obvious reasons. They are pretty good at getting along luminaries from the Labour party and its MPs, but as much as anything else that is because they ask and many of those being asked have been to them in their youth.
(I do feel that it is important to emphasize this for people who seem to ignore the important points).
I have been to a few of them over the decades generally because one of my younger relatives wanted to go and I could provide transport. I have never noticed the Labour party organisation being in charge. Just some older Labour party members being drafted in from the local area and others like myself turning up as well.
However, this seems to set up a problem, or potential problem that has surfaced with these sexual assault allegations.
Young Labour IS a wing of the Labour Party, and all Labour Party members between 15 yrs and 26 yrs are automatically members. i also see that the Young Labour twitter account is authorised by Andrew Kirton.
I can understand wanting to give Young Labour a fair amount of autonomy in their constitution, election of officers, and, by the sound of it, organising the summer camp.
Nevertheless, when the sexual assault allegations were made, Kirton was brought in to deal with it. I get the impression he wasn’t called in until someone on Facebook contacted Megan Woods about it (one of the victims, though Woods didn’t know that). Woods referred it to Kirton. [didn’t Kirton also deal with the allegations about Labour Party interns last year?]
And the PM is speaking about it and taking some responsibility for the management of the allegations, and an investigation. Though i would have thought the PM doesn’t have a lot of responsibility for the wider Labour Party? Isn’t there some degree of autonomy between Parliamentary Labour and the Party?
However, the case does reflect on the Labour Party generally – Young Labour partly works to promote the Labour Party to young people. And, to some extent it is seen as an indication of the left in general.
I’ve seen several comments on social media from older adults talking about the need for adequate adult supervision of 16 yr olds at parties.
I’ll wait to see how the Labour Party investigation deals with this weakness in the Young Labour set up – affiliated but somewhat autonomous.
+1 Anne – we need to stop this tribalism bullshit. Labour has fucked this up.
I like Labour, I vote Greens and I think Ardern is the best PM we have had in a long time but despite all that – Labor fucked it and it sounds like it isn’t the first time so they have work to do
A week after Ardern’s PI trip needing to get as much media as poss and a week before Parliament comes out of recess and there would be questions being hammered at them.
Which is interesting coincidental timing in it’s own right if you were overly cynical.
That really does sound cynical, even if true.
I guess it is as good a way as any for the Parliamentary Labour Party to get the spotlight off their own failures and to pin the attention onto someone else.
Now they can insist on Kirton’s resignation and claim it illustrates how the strong minded(?) Labour leader won’t tolerate any misbehaviour in the party and …… Look a squirrel!
Wondering that as well Anne. Haven’t heard many public comments from the nats about it.
I’m absolutely DISGUSTED in the right wingers on the kiwiblog, they are lapping it up and the comments are obscence and insincere with no regard for the victims, it’s filthy over there. No moderation, commentors are free to spread lies, no facts required. Tossing around words like orgy etc like that are getting their own perverse sexual rise out of it all. Freaking vulgar behaviour.
Where were kiwiblog when other sexual assault issues were highlighted in the media? Not one dedicated thread re Russell McVeagh sexual assaults.
Meanwhile rightwingers are not discussing Operation Burnham and I doubt very much that any nat mps will be asking questions about that in the house next week.
Come on now – you know just like I do that if this was the Young Nats the left would be lapping it up too. A case(s) like this – politics should be secondary. Sexual assault claims are the same no matter what stripe if originates
(though I have no doubt commentators here would be far more circumspect and respectful than those angry old dicks at Kiwiblog. I haven’t even looked over there since this story broke).
Why yes… especially this bit at the start of the thread
“When commenting please avoid suggestions that Chris Bishop’s actions are anything other than how he has described them. There is absolutely no evidence that he has done anything but what he says he has done.”
I rarely go to KB. But judging by the kinds of comments I’ve seen on there in recent times, the right have no reason to be complacent or throw stones at the left on gender matters – there are too many misogynistic, racist, homophobic comments there – supports and promotes rape culture and abuse of relatively powerless groups. To be avoided if possible.
I have the same feeling about it Anne. Also remember what happened to Len Brown. Bevan Chuang was involved with dirty politics maestro Jordan Williams. She was I think used as bait. Really fishy. Of course Brown shouldn’t have fallen for the bait but I wonder why the perpetuator was there is it chance or is someone else behind it. I think the same chanels are being used and Murphy has been up to his neck in DP too.
Well she was also in a relationship with Luigi Wewege from John Palinos camoaignand he leaks it to Williams from the “taxpayers union” and he went to the press so who knows what went on.
Yes. It’s getting more obvious by the hour Fairy Godmother. Look at the way the rw trolls are now attempting to undermine individuals on this site.
Andrew Kirton won’t resign. He’s proving to be far too valuable to the party.
That is why he is being discredited.
As lprent has already pointed out, Young Labour run their own youth camps – something which will now have to change. It’s to Kirton’s credit he’s shielding them and taking the hits for this apparent muck up.
For better or worse, the media will go to town on any sort of event which involves, political parties involved in allegations of sexual Impropriety. This isn’t a conspiracy and to compare it to the David Cunliffe incident is really diminishing the seriousness of a sexual assault.
It was not a comparison. It was merely an example (in inverted commas) that happened to spring to mind as I was typing, and which in my view typifies the sort of DP behaviour currently being run on this particular issue involving the recent Labour Youth camp.
Anne,
The only acts of destruction here have been at Kirton’s own hands.
1 He allowed an ill supervised event to go ahead with excess alcohol being drunk by underage children.
2 When he became aware of the sexual offending, he closes it down and covers it up and hopes it goes away.
His actions were never victim focused, they were party focused – hoping to avoid bad publicity.
If he was so victim led with his responses why were the victims complaining to MP’s that nothing was being done?
Why – now the parents have found out through the media – do we see that the victims are heading to complain to the Police. An option they should have been encouraged to pursue at the earliest opportunity.
No one in their right mind should expect a vulnerable and confused 15 or 16 year old to have the ability to make a rational, adult decision around the best way to deal with something as personal as unwanted sexual assault.
That’s why their parents and the Police are there to discuss support and legal options for redress.
Minimizing sexual molestation and pretending it doesn’t matter is what you would expect from a cult or some inbred red neck community, not from a Political Party that prides itself on its progressive and diverse ‘inclusiveness.’
Hint: Its not too ‘judgey’ to report sexual molesters to the Police no matter what their political colour.
Sorry but disagree with the view on how AK and his advisors have handled this https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102201208/Labour-Party-confirms-sexual-misconduct-at-camp-parents-and-police-not-told
“He said he wouldn’t change the way the party had handled the situation but in future would tell Ardern if that was what she wanted.”
Question without telling our PM how does she know if she wants to know is that not what a good PM’s minder is there for, to shield them and allow plausible deniability ?
Given how this story has grown, as we are feed more information. That AK would have only told our PM, displays for me his inability to discern how the media reacts to a political story (that was going to “get out”) and that it is part of his job description to minimise such damage from a story NOT feed it.
@ Chris T (4) … and information has been released that NZDF and the previous National government mislead, lied to and deceived NZ on the activities of Operation Burnham and the atrocities inflicted on civilians.
But do we see this appalling event splashed across the headlines? No we do not. Why? Because there has been some alleged sexual assault incidents at a Labour Youth camp (which I’m not condoning by any means), media is using as a diversion tactic to take the heat off National, in an attempt to discredit the Labour led government!
Doesn’t seem like much of a penalty to me. They made over a million dollars on this speculation and have to pay $847k. So they still profit over $100,000+ after doing it. Great disincentive! sarcasm.
Also where was the lawyer and real estate agent in all this, they should be fined!
It should be made impossible though the real estate process
for this to happen.
If you encourage people to speculate who don’t speak English or live in the country this is bound to happen, of course they may not be aware of the rules!
The OIA is a scam anyway because they just rubber-stamp everything anyway!
Chinese buyers fined $847k after failing to get consent to buy $5m cliff-top Auckland mansion
The honeymoon is over for Labour and the PM. The sooner she gets a trouble shooter in who can run a tight ship the better. Heather Simpson should be shipped in and have this government whipped into shape. It’s not as though they didn’t know what was ahead of them with a very strong muck raking opposition on the benches who have many skilled personnel in the wings doing their work for them.
Discipline is needed and its not evident at present. With this new infant on the way the PM is going to be out of the picture for a while, a perfect time for mischief, I just hope Winnie is on to it. If not, its a bleak time ahead for the Labour led government and they have been given full warning of it.
Ardern’s Government also has the benefit of having on tap such wise heads as Helen Clark, Dame Annette King and Sir Michael Cullen, as well as the reassuring presence of Heather Simpson in deep cover behind the scenes.
Kinda like NZ Labour’s very own House of Lords….or some of the more prominent people the voting public voted out of office some ten years ago finding a way to cling on in there.
Yep I agree. The whole thing is just too convenient. Also Murphy is a totally discredited DP player so I don’t trust him at all to have an independent stance or actually do the job as a journalist.
Yet again the media parrots a story complaining that an industry cannot get enough workers – workout any mention whatsoever of the pay and conditions currently on offer!!
I live in a dairy farming area – and the pay and conditions are commonly complete rubbish. Their only acceptable solution – import third-world pay and conditions. If you want workers – pay for them!
Absolutely! We had the same thing today in HB Today about apple pickers. No mention of what orchardists are paying them. Time for a text to editor methinks.
I saw an article which said the HB pickers got paid above the minimum pay rate. But no actual sum mentioned. Very little actual uptake from the 5% HB unemployed.
It perhaps is a bit like me in the 80s when out of work for a short period and on the unemployment benefit, that a garlic grower offered me about $10 per 40 hr week more than the benefit but he then told me that was only for days that were worked. Rainy days were not paid. More than one days’ rain in a three week period saw me worse off. No longer on the benefit, and probably earning less. I found another job.
News Hub It a good day the America cup venue looks like they are going to agree on a plan that limites damage to our sea environment. Eco Maori says that the bad publicity that Labour is receiving at the minute was a set up how easy would it have been to pay someone to do that at the young Labour function there is a lot of nasty people out there who will not stop at anything to achieve there goal of undermining and damaging Labours Mana Ka kite ano
I know many people would like to believe it didn’t happen. but I’ve seen some pretty atrocious behaviour from young people in my time, left and right – especially from young immature men.
I read somewhere the alleged perp was pretty mortified when confronted with his behaviour the next day.
It doesn’t help the investigation or the survivors to repeat rumours without solid evidence.
Every time I think someone can’t get anymore delusional someone else proves me wrong
Either the National party sent a 20 year old into the party to commit a serious sexual crime (which if convicted for would no doubt have serious repercussions on travel, employment, probably end up on a list etc) just to discredit Labour
or some guy got drunk and took advantage of the situation
Nicky Hager’s book proved there are conspiracies of this nature. Any and all malevolence is possible from the right wing then they are desperate to regain or hold onto power.
I see a former young labour member on twitter saying she was asked by them to infiltrate the young nats so it works both ways. But regardless – it doesn’t matter if the person was a young Nat, a young labour or fucking young Freemason.
What Carolyn said above – shifting blame to some conspiracy is completely unhelpful and stupid
“Muttonbird’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was the son of a Labour Cabinet Minister
Once you consider that, everything makes sense”.
Wow what a comment. A person in NZ willing to risk a criminal sexual assault conviction with all the life time stigma for a political party. You should either have to put up evidence or withdraw. That is a massive accusation and should have to back that up.
News Hub more bad weather Ingrid its all good for Eco Maori has finished my outdoor mahi all this rain is good for farming . These a phenomenon when the townies are happy dry hot weather the farmers are unhappy and when its a wet season like we have now the farmers are happy ka kite ano
I gather two of the Green MPs have been coerced into attending.
That’ll make three people there then.
The other Green MPs are all on overseas jaunts I understand.
Damn, it’s easy to look through 150 comments when you ignore most of the threads where tory fuckwits are suddenly pretending they care about sexual assault of people they don’t know.
Why do corporate/business interests seek to influence government regulatory agencies, Universities, etc., to silence expert critics? It’s because they can’t win evidence-based debates. Also, the chilling effect on others that might be in a position to speak out.
Waikato University’s lame “international law expert” seems to be
ignorant of Britain’s violations of international law. The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 14 March 2018
Jim Mora, Mai Chen, Michael Moynahan, Caitlin Cherry
Long time sufferers of this lightweight chat show will be familiar with the witterings of Waikato University’s “international law expert”, one Professor Alexander Gillespie. On one of his most infamously stupid guest appearances, back in 2015, he solemnly pronounced that the United States and Great Britain had tried to bring “freedom and democracy” to the Middle East.
This afternoon Gillespie was back at it. When host Jim Mora asked him what he thought of Winston Peters’ suggestion that the Russian poisoning incidents should be subject to an international inquiry, the “international law expert” summoned up all the gravitas he could muster and intoned: “The British have a great legal system, and they have a lot of integrity.”
In an impressive display of self-discipline, no one in the studio even snickered.
At least two AMI insurance branches in Christchurch (Riccarton and Hornby) were closed indefinitely from today. My first thought was that AMI management have found a new way to cheat their policy holders. But a security guard told me it was in response to death threats to staff. I have searched through Stuff, past reports on Dairies ditching ciggies, Spy drama on Queen Street, the Harry and Meghan movie, and Reusable toilet paper, but can find no report on the AMI story. Clearly the news is being suppressed – but why? Surely a report on a threat of violence would be a perfect fit with Stuff’s editorial direction?
Considering how the media (and posters on here) reacted to John Key pony tail pulling or Chris Bishop texting I’d say Labour is getting off pretty lightly considering thats now three separate instances of sexual assault in the media
Has the current PM been accused of sexually harassing a young man regularly over time – and using her power to laugh it off?
Has a Labour MP been accused of inappropriate communications with young people? (I’m not someone who went into major attacks on Chris Bishop). Todd Barclay’s another matter – but even then – not sure I spent much time attacking him – then he ran away.
John Key’s behaviour, though, was appalling. He deserved everything thrown at him.
Labour failed in it’s care of young people, have owned it, and are trying to develop a better way of providing a safe environment.
I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it worse than what Labour is copping now plus there would be post after post on here about it
John Keys behavior was bizarre but theres been three separate incidences of sexual assault, one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual then some one off incidences
The media love a political scandal, a political sex scandal even more and yet people talk of a conspiracy
I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things and so this scandal must somehow be the rights fault or the medias fault or anyone elses fault
“I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it”
Bet they wouldnt, pretty quiet on the princess parties.
“John Keys behavior was bizarre”
Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.
“one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual”
In what what way is it business as usual?
“I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”
“Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.”
For which the media went at him, hard, hell it went global big time (at least as far John Oliver)
“In what what way is it business as usual?”
Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.
Theres now three incidences that we’ve heard of and if its difficult to come forward then that means theres been more than three incidences. So its starting to sound like sexual assault is business as usual at young Labour parties (I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual)
“No one thinks like that.”
Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1
14 March 2018 at 6:48 pm
Eco’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.
So youre defending former Prime Minister John key physically abusing a young women over a period of months that caused her much distress?
“Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.”
so you have come to that conclusion on 3 incidents that occurred over a span of how many years?
Are you saying Labour forced the courts to suppress the case? you know all the details do you? And do you realize that you have contradicted yourself? you said its business as usual then you end by saying “I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual”
so, which is it?
Frankly, you are not making much sense.
You didn’t make a reference to the 20 year old. What you said was “I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”
That’s what I responded to when I said no one thinks like that.
You dont think the former PM physically abusing a young woman at her work over a period of months is not assault? If it had of been anyone else that person would have been charged.
All media outlets are covering it. Stuff has a fair amounts of articles on it, did you not check out the politics section? the Herald too and Newshub, NH in particular is loaded with articles on it and not much else.
Yet barely anything on the Defence force having lied. In fact, its getting suitably buried.
“It’s no worse than what appears to have happened at the former Princess parties – young Nat women being plied with alcohol and well… you can guess the rest.”
Yes it is worse because something happened at the young Labour party, we don’t know what exactly happened (and quite frankly we don’t need to know) but something wen’t down whereas you have one snippet of an email making reference to a party that no ones any details of and no complaints have been raised so yeah it is worse
If you care to consider what he has to say about it you can read it here:
“All hushed up and the MSM didn’t touch it with a barge poll.”
They didn’t touch it because no complaints were made
“Same set of circumstances with the Labour Party version but this time the MSM are all over it like venomous vultures. What a stark contrast in the responses.”
Its not the same set of circumstances because we’re now up to three separate incidences, that we know of, including one which went to court
Your chief ‘concern’ appears to be the ‘party political’ dimension, so please consider that no Labour party politician or staffer has been accused of being the perpetrator of these regrettable assaults.
Whereas repeated unsolicited hair pulling by a sober PM and National Party leader was (rightly) international news. Of course, the motivation for Key’s assaults was not sexual in any way; honest John might just as well have been tugging on the ponytail of a male waiter. Nevertheless, by a ponytail puller we were led.
The assaults committed by an allegedly drunken 20-year old are of a more serious nature, but using these assaults to manufacture smears of sexual nature against Labour is simply desperate.
Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.
Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)
Thats three separate incidences at similar events, run by the same organisation
and that means, whether you like it or not, that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark
Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)
What, precisely, do you (‘chris73’) know or suspect Labour party MPs and/or staffers are ‘guilty’ of? Perhaps something more than poor planning/oversight of these events?
What do you think is the ‘something’ that is wrong – be as precise as possible. [Don’t worry, my expectations are low.]
Because if you know something, it’s your duty to come forward (with the agreement of the 16-year old victims, of course.)
I know that there have been three separate incidences. I know one of those incidences went to court. I know that of the latest incident the police were not specifically mentioned. I know that the very next day of the latest incident a smear attack on Chris Bishop was launched. I know that at young Labour parties young men and women are being sexually assaulted.
And I know that people like you are trying to minimize whats happened
“Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.”
Yup no minimizing or misdirection going on here: even though this happened under young Labour we all that the right are the bad ones…
No complaint to the police had been laid either until Newsroom published the story without the victims consent.
So in your mind because nothings been published msm re Young Nats, there’s never been an incident and they are squeaky clean and everyone else is evil?
Princess parties and other material showing the mindsets of Nats were published in Dirty Politics.
Your excuses still dont explain why the media never covered it.
Aggression has had definite advantages for survival, but when modern technology meets ancient aggression the entire human race and much of the rest of life on Earth is at risk.
Today in Syria we see modern technology in the form of bombs, chemicals and other weapons being used to further so-called intelligent political ends.
But it does not feel intelligent to watch as more than 100,000 people are killed or while children are targeted. It feels downright stupid, and worse, to prevent humanitarian supplies from reaching clinics where, as Save the Children will document in a forthcoming report, children are having limbs amputated for lack of basic facilities and newborn babies are dying in incubators for lack of power.
What’s happening in Syria is an abomination, one that the world is watching coldly from a distance. Where is our emotional intelligence, our sense of collective justice?
We must work together to end this war and to protect the children of Syria. The international community has watched from the sidelines for three years as this conflict rages, engulfing all hope. As a father and grandfather, I watch the suffering of Syria’s children and must now say: No more.
Stephen Hawking lives forever in the hearts of the Palestinian people. And all those who value justice and peace.
“I accepted the invitation to the Presidential Conference with the intention that this would not only allow me to express my opinion on the prospects for a peace settlement but also because it would allow me to lecture on the West Bank. However, I have received a number of emails from Palestinian academics. They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference. Had I attended, I would have stated my opinion that the policy of the present Israeli government is likely to lead to disaster.”
I want to say to all people: trying to help us, stop the killing, just stop the killing.
Every day you just try to earn some food to be alive.
Every day you are under, maybe tomorrow I will not have my food, and maybe I will be under the ruins, destroyed home, and hospital. Maybe I will be passed away.
I want the people of Eastern Ghouta to live in peace.
So no siege, no shelling, no bombing.
That’s what we need. We have rights like everybody in this world.
I’m no bizzniss whizzzz (going forward, on the back of….) but over at Newsroom Pro there’s a vestigayshun into Fonterra and Beingate??? Asking why nothing was learned from Sanlu amonst other issues.
I reckon there’s a more fundamental question. Why did farmers allow their co-op to be bastardised and corporatised, and now that it may very well be going cow teets up, I’ll be wondering if we’re all supposed to feel pity for those that allowed it all to happen (going forward, on the back of failed Chinese vestmints)
Good morning The AM Show on TV3 Is it common for Both TV 1 an TV 3 news to fan the farcical flames that is around TE Labour Party both channels had this issue in there head line News . And then I see david seenothing trying to lay the blame on Jacinda as if she put a t-shirt on and supported that kind of bad behavior david has heaps of money to get his publicity . You news people need to stop blowing this situation out of proportions as you do on many occasions I hope you like having ECO MAORI back to correct your wrongs against the 99.9% of people. Kia Kaha Labour don’t panics YOU good people have done nothing wrong chin up and keep up the GOOD Battle for the 99.9 % of common Kiwis Ka kite ano
The AM Show I agree that alcohol should not have consumed at that function.
But alcohol is so ingrained in OUR society it causes hundreds of deaths fills our prisons with people who don’t understand the side effects of consuming alcohol
the minimie age of alcohol consumption should be razed to 19 I prefer 20 but 19 one year is a easier target one year up at a time . We worship ALCOHOL it in our face every day advertised by many as a drug of choice ??????????. I say someone has to go to put that issue in the past.
Mark Steven Hawking was a brilliant man Mark nobody is going to solve the theory of everything we are on Papatuanuku mother earth for a very short period of time in its self I say if we had a culture of leaving be hind a better world for the mokos and all the creatures on Papatuanuku we would all be living in utopia now if all our for Fathers had this as a Phenomenon to worship enough said Kia Kaha Labour ka kite ano
The Am Show it makes me proud of the mokos Grandchildren of America are staying true to there cause of GUN LAW reforms in America they know that it is them who will have to clean up any mess we the parents grandparents leave for them Kia Kaha USA mokos .
For people to feel happy you need to feel your own self worth to feel like you have the same rights as the wealthy neighbor have a society were every culture is respected .Amanda it baffles me why Aotearoa has not topped the charts of HAPPIEST society and the Scandinavian country’s top the charts the big picture is we have to stop the control that the 00.1 have on our society we should copy the Scandinavian with there government systems I will bet that there systems are designed to benefit the 99.9% and not just the 00.1 are benefiting from that type of government system. For one to have a happy society don’t have to be rocket scientist we just have to copy the people that are doing the best of look into the vast past to see what system did the best for everyone .Ka kite ano
Am Show Mark I have a couple of tips I am going to give Prime TV News I will give them to Eric Young at 530 Kia Kaha Eric ka kite ano P.S The salt water hammers ones hands when I first went Scampi fishing I was told to wear gloves I did not listen after 4 days my hands were that swolen that I could just barely move my fingers I made sure to wear gloves after that the scampi have a lot of spikes lol
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Chris Bishop has unveiled plans for new roads in Tauranga, Auckland and Northland that will cost up to a combined $10 billion. Photo: Lynn GrievesonLong stories short from Aotearoa political economy around housing, poverty and climate in the week to Saturday, April 26:Chris Bishop ploughed ahead this week with spending ...
Unless you've been living under a rock, you would have noticed that New Zealand’s government, under the guise of economic stewardship, is tightening the screws on its citizens, and using debt as a tool of control. This isn’t just a conspiracy theory whispered in pub corners...it’s backed by hard data ...
The budget runup is far from easy.Budget 2025 day is Thursday 22 May. About a month earlier in a normal year, the macroeconomic forecasts would be completed (the fiscal ones would still be tidying up) and the main policy decisions would have been made (but there would still be a ...
On 25 April 2021, I published an internal all-staff Anzac Day message. I did so as the Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs, which is responsible for Australia’s civil defence, and its resilience in ...
You’ve likely noticed that the disgraced blogger of Whale Oil Beef Hooked infamy, Cameron Slater, is still slithering around the internet, peddling his bile on a shiny new blogsite calling itself The Good Oil. If you thought bankruptcy, defamation rulings, and a near-fatal health scare would teach this idiot a ...
The Atlas Network, a sprawling web of libertarian think tanks funded by fossil fuel barons and corporate elites, has sunk its claws into New Zealand’s political landscape. At the forefront of this insidious influence is David Seymour, the ACT Party leader, whose ties to Atlas run deep.With the National Party’s ...
Nicola Willis, National’s supposed Finance Minister, has delivered another policy failure with the Family Boost scheme, a childcare rebate that was big on promises but has been very small on delivery. Only 56,000 families have signed up, a far cry from the 130,000 Willis personally championed in National’s campaign. This ...
This article was first published on 7 February 2025. In January, I crossed the milestone of 24 years of service in two militaries—the British and Australian armies. It is fair to say that I am ...
He shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old.Age shall not weary him, nor the years condemn.At the going down of the sun and in the morningI will remember him.My mate Keith died yesterday, peacefully in the early hours. My dear friend in Rotorua, whom I’ve been ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: on news New Zealand abstained from a vote on a global shipping levy on climate emissions and downgraded the importance ...
Hi,In case you missed it, New Zealand icon Lorde has a new single out. It’s called “What Was That”, and has a very low key music video that was filmed around her impromptu performance in New York’s Washington Square Park. When police shut down the initial popup, one of my ...
A strategy of denial is now the cornerstone concept for Australia’s National Defence Strategy. The term’s use as an overarching guide to defence policy, however, has led to some confusion on what it actually means ...
The IMF’s twice-yearly World Economic Outlook and Fiscal Monitor publications have come out in the last couple of days. If there is gloom in the GDP numbers (eg this chart for the advanced countries, and we don’t score a lot better on the comparable one for the 2019 to ...
For a while, it looked like the government had unfucked the ETS, at least insofar as unit settings were concerned. They had to be forced into it by a court case, but at least it got done, and when National came to power, it learned the lesson (and then fucked ...
The argument over US officials’ misuse of secure but non-governmental messaging platform Signal falls into two camps. Either it is a gross error that undermines national security, or it is a bit of a blunder ...
Cost of living ~1/3 of Kiwis needed help with food as cost of living pressures continue to increase - turning to friends, family, food banks or Work and Income in the past year, to find food. 40% of Kiwis also said they felt schemes offered little or no benefit, according ...
Hi,Perhaps in 2025 it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the CEO and owner of Voyager Internet — the major sponsor of the New Zealand Media Awards — has taken to sharing a variety of Anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish conspiracy theories to his 1.2 million followers.This included sharing a post from ...
In the sprint to deepen Australia-India defence cooperation, navy links have shot ahead of ties between the two countries’ air forces and armies. That’s largely a good thing: maritime security is at the heart of ...
'Cause you and me, were meant to be,Walking free, in harmony,One fine day, we'll fly away,Don't you know that Rome wasn't built in a day?Songwriters: Paul David Godfrey / Ross Godfrey / Skye Edwards.I was half expecting to see photos this morning of National Party supporters with wads of cotton ...
The PSA says a settlement with Health New Zealand over the agency’s proposed restructure of its Data and Digital and Pacific Health teams has saved around 200 roles from being cut. A third of New Zealanders have needed help accessing food in the past year, according to Consumer NZ, and ...
John Campbell’s Under His Command, a five-part TVNZ+ investigation series starting today, rips the veil off Destiny Church, exposing the rot festering under Brian Tamaki’s self-proclaimed apostolic throne. This isn’t just a church; it’s a fiefdom, built on fear, manipulation, and a trail of scandals that make your stomach churn. ...
Some argue we still have time, since quantum computing capable of breaking today’s encryption is a decade or more away. But breakthrough capabilities, especially in domains tied to strategic advantage, rarely follow predictable timelines. Just ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Pearl Marvell(Photo credit: Pearl Marvell. Image credit: Samantha Harrington. Dollar bill vector image: by pch.vector on Freepik) Igrew up knowing that when you had extra money, you put it under a bed, stashed it in a book or a clock, or, ...
The political petrified piece of wood, Winston Peters, who refuses to retire gracefully, has had an eventful couple of weeks peddling transphobia, pushing bigoted policies, undertaking his unrelenting war on wokeness and slinging vile accusations like calling Green co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick a “groomer”.At 80, the hypocritical NZ First leader’s latest ...
It's raining in Cockermouth and we're following our host up the stairs. We’re telling her it’s a lovely building and she’s explaining that it used to be a pub and a nightclub and a backpackers, but no more.There were floods in 2009 and 2015 along the main street, huge floods, ...
A recurring aspect of the Trump tariff coverage is that it normalises – or even sanctifies – a status quo that in many respects has been a disaster for working class families. No doubt, Donald Trump is an uncertainty machine that is tanking the stock market and the growth prospects ...
The National Party’s Minister of Police, Corrections, and Ethnic Communities (irony alert) has stumbled into yet another racist quagmire, proving that when it comes to bigotry, the right wing’s playbook is as predictable as it is vile. This time, Mitchell’s office reposted an Instagram reel falsely claiming that Te Pāti ...
In the week of Australia’s 3 May election, ASPI will release Agenda for Change 2025: preparedness and resilience in an uncertain world, a report promoting public debate and understanding on issues of strategic importance to ...
In a world crying out for empathy, J.K. Rowling has once again proven she’s more interested in stoking division than building bridges. The once-beloved author of Harry Potter has cemented her place as this week’s Arsehole of the Week, a title earned through her relentless, tone-deaf crusade against transgender rights. ...
Health security is often seen as a peripheral security domain, and as a problem that is difficult to address. These perceptions weaken our capacity to respond to borderless threats. With the wind back of Covid-19 ...
Would our political parties pass muster under the Fair Trading Act?WHAT IF OUR POLITICAL PARTIES were subject to the Fair Trading Act? What if they, like the nation’s businesses, were prohibited from misleading their consumers – i.e. the voters – about the nature, characteristics, suitability, or quantity of the products ...
Rod EmmersonThank you to my subscribers and readers - you make it all possible. Tui.Subscribe nowSix updates today from around the world and locally here in Aoteaora New Zealand -1. RFK Jnr’s Autism CrusadeAmerica plans to create a registry of people with autism in the United States. RFK Jr’s department ...
We see it often enough. A democracy deals with an authoritarian state, and those who oppose concessions cite the lesson of Munich 1938: make none to dictators; take a firm stand. And so we hear ...
370 perioperative nurses working at Auckland City Hospital, Starship Hospital and Greenlane Clinical Centre will strike for two hours on 1 May – the same day senior doctors are striking. This is part of nationwide events to mark May Day on 1 May, including rallies outside public hospitals, organised by ...
Character protections for Auckland’s villas have stymied past development. Now moves afoot to strip character protection from a bunch of inner-city villas. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories shortest from our political economy on Wednesday, April 23:Special Character Areas designed to protect villas are stopping 20,000 sites near Auckland’s ...
Artificial intelligence is poised to significantly transform the Indo-Pacific maritime security landscape. It offers unprecedented situational awareness, decision-making speed and operational flexibility. But without clear rules, shared norms and mechanisms for risk reduction, AI could ...
For what is a man, what has he got?If not himself, then he has naughtTo say the things he truly feelsAnd not the words of one who kneelsThe record showsI took the blowsAnd did it my wayLyrics: Paul Anka.Morena folks, before we discuss Winston’s latest salvo in NZ First’s War ...
Britain once risked a reputation as the weak link in the trilateral AUKUS partnership. But now the appointment of an empowered senior official to drive the project forward and a new burst of British parliamentary ...
Australia’s ability to produce basic metals, including copper, lead, zinc, nickel and construction steel, is in jeopardy, with ageing plants struggling against Chinese competition. The multinational commodities company Trafigura has put its Australian operations under ...
There have been recent PPP debacles, both in New Zealand (think Transmission Gully) and globally, with numerous examples across both Australia and Britain of failed projects and extensive litigation by government agencies seeking redress for the failures.Rob Campbell is one of New Zealand’s sharpest critics of PPPs noting that; "There ...
On Twitter on Saturday I indicated that there had been a mistake in my post from last Thursday in which I attempted to step through the Reserve Bank Funding Agreement issues. Making mistakes (there are two) is annoying and I don’t fully understand how I did it (probably too much ...
Indonesia’s armed forces still have a lot of work to do in making proper use of drones. Two major challenges are pilot training and achieving interoperability between the services. Another is overcoming a predilection for ...
The StrategistBy Sandy Juda Pratama, Curie Maharani and Gautama Adi Kusuma
As a living breathing human being, you’ve likely seen the heart-wrenching images from Gaza...homes reduced to rubble, children burnt to cinders, families displaced, and a death toll that’s beyond comprehension. What is going on in Gaza is most definitely a genocide, the suffering is real, and it’s easy to feel ...
Donald Trump, who has called the Chair of the Federal Reserve “a major loser”. Photo: Getty ImagesLong stories shortest from our political economy on Tuesday, April 22:US markets slump after Donald Trump threatens the Fed’s independence. China warns its trading partners not to side with the US. Trump says some ...
Last night, the news came through that Pope Francis had passed away at 7:35 am in Rome on Monday, the 21st of April, following a reported stroke and heart failure. Pope Francis. Photo: AP.Despite his obvious ill health, it still came as a shock, following so soon after the Easter ...
The 2024 Independent Intelligence Review found the NIC to be highly capable and performing well. So, it is not a surprise that most of the 67 recommendations are incremental adjustments and small but nevertheless important ...
This is a re-post from The Climate BrinkThe world has made real progress toward tacking climate change in recent years, with spending on clean energy technologies skyrocketing from hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars globally over the past decade, and global CO2 emissions plateauing.This has contributed to a reassessment of ...
Hi,I’ve been having a peaceful month of what I’d call “existential dread”, even more aware than usual that — at some point — this all ends.It was very specifically triggered by watching Pantheon, an animated sci-fi show that I’m filing away with all-time greats like Six Feet Under, Watchmen and ...
Once the formalities of honouring the late Pope wrap up in two to three weeks time, the conclave of Cardinals will go into seclusion. Some 253 of the current College of Cardinals can take part in the debate over choosing the next Pope, but only 138 of them are below ...
The National Party government is doubling down on a grim, regressive vision for the future: more prisons, more prisoners, and a society fractured by policies that punish rather than heal. This isn’t just a misstep; it’s a deliberate lurch toward a dystopian future where incarceration is the answer to every ...
The audacity of Don Brash never ceases to amaze. The former National Party and Hobson’s Pledge mouthpiece has now sunk his claws into NZME, the media giant behind the New Zealand Herald and half of our commercial radio stations. Don Brash has snapped up shares in NZME, aligning himself with ...
A listing of 28 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 13, 2025 thru Sat, April 19, 2025. This week's roundup is again published by category and sorted by number of articles included in each. The formatting is a ...
“What I’d say to you is…” our Prime Minister might typically begin a sentence, when he’s about to obfuscate and attempt to derail the question you really, really want him to answer properly (even once would be okay, Christopher). Questions such as “Why is a literal election promise over ...
Ruth IrwinExponential Economic growth is the driver of Ecological degradation. It is driven by CO2 greenhouse gas emissions through fossil fuel extraction and burning for the plethora of polluting industries. Extreme weather disasters and Climate change will continue to get worse because governments subscribe to the current global economic system, ...
A man on telly tries to tell me what is realBut it's alright, I like the way that feelsAnd everybody singsWe are evolving from night to morningAnd I wanna believe in somethingWriter: Adam Duritz.The world is changing rapidly, over the last year or so, it has been out with the ...
MFB Co-Founder Cecilia Robinson runs Tend HealthcareSummary:Kieran McAnulty calls out National on healthcare lies and says Health Minister Simeon Brown is “dishonest and disingenuous”(video below)McAnulty says negotiation with doctors is standard practice, but this level of disrespect is not, especially when we need and want our valued doctors.National’s $20bn ...
Chris Luxon’s tenure as New Zealand’s Prime Minister has been a masterclass in incompetence, marked by coalition chaos, economic lethargy, verbal gaffes, and a moral compass that seems to point wherever political expediency lies. The former Air New Zealand CEO (how could we forget?) was sold as a steady hand, ...
Has anybody else noticed Cameron Slater still obsessing over Jacinda Ardern? The disgraced Whale Oil blogger seems to have made it his life’s mission to shadow the former Prime Minister of New Zealand like some unhinged stalker lurking in the digital bushes.The man’s obsession with Ardern isn't just unhealthy...it’s downright ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is climate change a net benefit for society? Human-caused climate change has been a net detriment to society as measured by loss of ...
Te Pāti Māori are appalled by Cabinet's decision to agree to 15 recommendations to the Early Childhood Education (ECE) sector following the regulatory review by the Ministry of Regulation. We emphasise the need to prioritise tamariki Māori in Early Childhood Education, conducted by education experts- not economists. “Our mokopuna deserve ...
The Government must support Northland hapū who have resorted to rakes and buckets to try to control a devastating invasive seaweed that threatens the local economy and environment. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill that would ensure the biological definition of a woman and man are defined in law. “This is not about being anti-anyone or anti-anything. This is about ensuring we as a country focus on the facts of biology and protect the ...
After stonewalling requests for information on boot camps, the Government has now offered up a blog post right before Easter weekend rather than provide clarity on the pilot. ...
More people could be harmed if Minister for Mental Health Matt Doocey does not guarantee to protect patients and workers as the Police withdraw from supporting mental health call outs. ...
The Green Party recognises the extension of visa allowances for our Pacific whānau as a step in the right direction but continues to call for a Pacific Visa Waiver. ...
The Government yesterday released its annual child poverty statistics, and by its own admission, more tamariki across Aotearoa are now living in material hardship. ...
Today, Te Pāti Māori join the motu in celebration as the Treaty Principles Bill is voted down at its second reading. “From the beginning, this Bill was never welcome in this House,” said Te Pāti Māori Co-Leader, Rawiri Waititi. “Our response to the first reading was one of protest: protesting ...
The Green Party is proud to have voted down the Coalition Government’s Treaty Principles Bill, an archaic piece of legislation that sought to attack the nation’s founding agreement. ...
A Member’s Bill in the name of Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter which aims to stop coal mining, the Crown Minerals (Prohibition of Mining) Amendment Bill, has been pulled from Parliament’s ‘biscuit tin’ today. ...
Labour MP Kieran McAnulty’s Members Bill to make the law simpler and fairer for businesses operating on Easter, Anzac and Christmas Days has passed its first reading after a conscience vote in Parliament. ...
Nicola Willis continues to sit on her hands amid a global economic crisis, leaving the Reserve Bank to act for New Zealanders who are worried about their jobs, mortgages, and KiwiSaver. ...
As New Zealanders marked Anzac Day, Italians commemorated 80 years since the country was liberated from fascism. Have celebrations changed in the shadow of Italy’s first postwar far-right government? Nina Hall writes from Bologna. For Italians, April 25 is very different to New Zealand’s Anzac Day. It’s the day to ...
As Shortland Street’s mysterious new ‘Back in Black’ season starts tonight, Tara Ward explains exactly what’s going on in Ferndale. What’s all this then? Back in Black is the name of Shortland Street’s new mini-season, which begins tonight. In 2025, the long-running soap is dividing the year into four “mini-seasons”, ...
Approved building firms, plumbers, and drainlayers will now be able to sign off their own work, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk has announced. ...
From 1 July, teachers will save up to $550 when applying for registration or renewing their practising certificate, Education Minister Erica Stanford announced. ...
Silicosis is a debilitating disease that cannot be cured. The evidence is clear that the only solution is to stop workers from being required to process engineered stone, which exposes them to the dangerous silica dust. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Hoyer, Senior Researcher, Historian and Complexity Scientist, University of Toronto Canada is, by nearly any measure, a large, advanced, prosperous nation. A founding member of the G7, Canada is one of the world’s most “advanced economies,” ranking fourth in the Organization ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Lakin, Lecturer, Clark University Memory and politics are inherently intertwined and can never be fully separated in post-atrocity and post-genocidal contexts. They are also dynamic and ever-changing. The interplay between memory and politics is, therefore, prone to manipulation, exaggeration or misuse ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jeffrey Fields, Professor of the Practice of International Relations, USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences A mural on the outer walls of the former US embassy in Tehran depicts two men in negotiation.Majid Saeedi/Getty Images Negotiators from Iran and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cora Fox, Associate Professor of English and Health Humanities, Arizona State University Joanna Vanderham as Desdemona and Hugh Quarshie as the title character in a Royal Shakespeare Company production of ‘Othello.’Robbie Jack/Corbis via Getty Images What is “happiness” – and who ...
What if you’re not bad with money, you’re just working with outdated software? If you’ve ever thought, “why can’t I just stick to a budget?”, congratulations. You’re just like the other 90% of us.Our brains were wired for survival in a hunter-gatherer world, which means they start throwing up ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jack Chung, PhD Candidate, National Centre for Youth Substance Use Research, The University of Queensland Stenko Vlad/Shutterstock E-cigarettes or vapes were originally designed to deliver nicotine in a smokeless form. But in recent years, vapes have been used to deliver other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daryoush Habibi, Professor and Head, Centre for Green and Smart Energy Systems, Edith Cowan University EV batteries are made of hundreds of smaller cells.IM Imagery/Shutterstock Around the world, more and more electric vehicles are hitting the road. Last year, more than ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ehsan Noroozinejad, Senior Researcher and Sustainable Future Lead, Urban Transformations Research Centre, Western Sydney University Australia is running out of affordable, safe places to live. Rents and mortgages are climbing faster than wages, and young people fear they may never own a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kristian Ramsden, PhD Candidate, University of Adelaide Apple TV In the second episode of Apple TV’s The Studio (2025–) – a sharp satirical take on contemporary Hollywood – newly-appointed studio head Matt Remick (Seth Rogen) visits the set of one of ...
David Taylor, head of English at Northcote College, outlines why he will refuse to teach the latest draft of the English curriculum. “I’ll look no more, / Lest my brain turn, and the deficient sight / Topple down headlong.” (King Lear, Act 4, Scene 6)Since 2007, New Zealand schools ...
The Ministry of Social Development said in a report this was because it could not cope with workloads, which included work relating to changes to the Jobseeker benefit. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paulomi (Polly) Burey, Professor in Food Science, University of Southern Queensland We’ve all been there – trying to peel a boiled egg, but mangling it beyond all recognition as the hard shell stubbornly sticks to the egg white. Worse, the egg ends ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Dehm, Senior Lecturer, International Migration and Refugee Law, University of Technology Sydney The year is 1972. The Whitlam Labor government has just been swept into power and major changes to Australia’s immigration system are underway. Many people remember this time for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joshua Black, Visitor, School of History, Australian National University Major parties used to easily dismiss the rare politician who stood alone in parliament. These MPs could be written off as isolated idealists, and the press could condescend to them as noble, naïve ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In searching for the “real” Peter Dutton, it is possible to end up frustrated because you have looked too hard. Politically, Dutton is not complicated. There is a consistent line in his beliefs through ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Strangio, Emeritus Professor of Politics, Monash University Barring a rogue result, this Saturday Anthony Albanese will achieve what no major party leader has done since John Howard’s prime-ministerial era – win consecutive elections. Admittedly, in those two decades he is only ...
Another holiday season, another outcry over the national carrier’s soaring ticket prices – and now calls for action are getting louder, writes Catherine McGregor in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.A Bulletin tradition returns to the runway If it feels ...
Our parents were the glitterati, the élite of Wellington society: elegant, educated, progressive, politically liberal. In the 1950s, they were at the centre of Wellington’s cultural revolution. Pa was exploring the possibilities of a theatre rooted in New Zealand’s communities, expressing our own sense of nationhood, and was writing to ...
Inland Revenue and Treasury told the government there was no proper evidence that yearly subsidies to some of the country's biggest carbon polluters were needed. ...
The Ministry of Social Development said in a report this was because it could not cope with workloads, which included work relating to changes to the Jobseeker benefit. ...
Staff at Kokomo said the artworks came from a specific website. The site’s owners deny it. So where did the portraits come from – and what are the cultural consequences of displaying them? Nestled on a side street near Christchurch’s central city is Kokomo, a restaurant with industrial flair and ...
Pole fitness has seen a surge in popularity in recent years, with hobbyists saying they find empowerment through the art form. But is dancing pole outside the club an appropriation of sex work? “To feel myself getting stronger in a super-inclusive, very female space was just genuinely a revelation,” says ...
The Black Ferns’ defence of the Rugby World Cup in the biggest year in the history of the sport is officially underway with the announcement of a 49-strong training squad ahead of the Pacific Four series in May. The training squad provides the first clues as to what the Black Ferns ...
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George Galloway.
“The kind of consensual frenzy I watched in the House today, with Corbyn’s nuanced position openly derided even on his own side was chillingly familiar to me. When the Commons is unanimous it’s usually unanimously wrong…”
This story has eerie echoes.
Remember this?
“Saddam Hussein’s armoury of chemical weapons is on standby for use within 45 minutes, Tony Blair’s dossier revealed today. The Iraqi leader has 20 missiles which could reach British military bases in Cyprus, as well as Israel and Nato members Greece and Turkey.
He has also been seeking to buy uranium from Africa for use in nuclear weapons. Those are the key charges in a 14-point “dossier of death” finally published by the Government today.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-139703/Just-45-minutes-attack.html
The scaremongering seems all so familiar.
Remember this?
“U.K. Parliament report details how NATO’s 2011 war in Libya was based on lies
British investigation: Gaddafi was not going to massacre civilians; Western bombing made Islamist extremism worse.”
https://www.salon.com/2016/09/16/u-k-parliament-report-details-how-natos-2011-war-in-libya-was-based-on-lies/
‘Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.’
The Gulf of Tonkin
9/11
Iraq
Libya
Syria
Ukraine
And now Skripal.
If it’s shame for for being fooled twice, what word should be used to describe the gullible fools who are going along with this next bout of scaremongering?
Yes quite right Ed they’re clearly only suffering the after effects of a dodgy vindaloo.
Don’t forget North Korea Ed, a scaremongering distraction the Donald has made his own.
Like China is going to stand for any actual sgression from them the Donald’s playing it big time IMO
Have you seen John Pilger’s film on the subject?
Have you anything to link Skripal with the Gulf of Tonkin Ed? It seems to me the link with Litvinenko is more substantial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko
One of my fav YTers on one of my fav topics
https://youtu.be/2w7OxMjnZxY
Meths easier to buy than cannabis
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1803/S00177/methamphetamine-easier-to-buy-than-cannabis.htm
They had 20 years to stop Meth and nobody bothered too hard.
I’m led to believe NZ police’s own narc’s detectives were telling the rank and file to throw the kitchen sink at meth, diverting resources from the dreaded green in the 90’s.
They saw it’s potential for mayhem in society and the cash criminals can derive from it. Can’t recall the book a former narc’s officer made that claim in.
So yeah savenz they didn’t try all that hard especially given all the resources still being thrown at the dreaded green.
It has come out this morning that one of the four victims from the Labour Party camp have gone to the police.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/03/labour-camp-alleged-sexual-assault-victim-lays-police-complaint.html
Also yesterday afternoon another girl came forward with a similar complaint from another Labour camp.
And Mike Williams said this morning there was another similar assault at another Labour party do which went to court so was suppressed and the public didn’t know
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102242327/victim-tells-labour-they-have-gone-to-police-over-alleged-sexual-assault
Does that make it three different incidents now?
Yeah
Best to have no reporting and keep it all under wraps like the Catholic Church and it can be cleared up internally….Nothing to see here move on .
Re the catholic church…. the movie Spotlight was a real eye opener for me, highly recommended viewing.
Saw that not that long ago
Excellent movie
Actually
Sorry
3 events. 6 incidents
Watched Andrew Kirton on both networks this morning, well done to him for fronting up today and for your sincerity. Next time please let Jacinda know about it.
To the teenager who is looking at going to police, you are very brave, I hope it won’t result in a media circus for you, stay strong.
I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. The MO is remarkably similar to that used on David Cunliffe… grab a piece of info. (eg. a letter he had received 12 years previously) and create a false meme around it. Make sure your MSM acolytes keep it on the boil for as long as possible. They all know the truth will out eventually, but that doesn’t matter because by then the damage has already been done.
For the purpose of enlightening readers, I understand Andrew Kirton was head-hunted for the job and he returned from England to take it up a year or two ago. He apparently has a very impressive record and since he took over the day to day running of the Party, the overall performance has improved out of all recognition.
That’s why Labour’s enemies want to him gone!
🙄
Yeah well Stunny boy, we know your level of cognitive comprehension is fairly average, so its stands to reason you might not be able to recognise the similarities or even remember them.
What truth will out eventually Anne ?
– Some 20 year old feeling secure enough at a Labour youth event to sexually assault teens. Not just once, but 4 times. He would be correct to feel secure; there would have been no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open
– Labour feeling that it’s Ok to have a party where booze is available to teens. No repercussions.
– Labour feeling it’s Ok to “let the team decide” how to deal with the issues rather than step in with firm leadership when that was clearly missing. No repercussions for the “team” or for the ignorant leadership.
SM: The 20-yr-old wasn’t “secure” – he was very drunk, you muppet. And please note that the 16-yr-old victims have NOT been accused of being drunk, except in the rantings of right-wingers who make it sound as if absolutely everyone was rolling drunk.
Since when is or should ever “very drunk” an excuse?
Like forever ….. Tuppence
“A doctor’s report said the man had had several occasions in the past of “odd” incidents occurring after waking up after drinking and not having knowledge of what he did.
The entertainer had since sworn off alcohol completely and he did not have any “paedophilic tendencies”, the doctor said.”
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5555711/Comedian-discharged-over-sex-act-on-daughter
Family Violence in NZ …. ” The authors found that areas with additional off-licence outlets were associated with 85.4 more police events and 10.3 more vehicle accidents a year. Those with a higher number of clubs and bars were associated with 34.7 more police events and 0.5 more vehicle accidents a year.”
The ‘drug crazed maniac’ that most of us are ever likely to encounter is the angry drunk…….
The drug addict that most of us will ever know is the alcoholic ……
The drug which is ‘pushed’ at us with $millions in marketing is alcohol
The ‘drug pushers’ ( booze company’s ) target our young people
The drug which fuels crime is alcohol
The drug which causes the most brain damage is alcohol
The drug most commonly used in ‘drug rape’ is alcohol
assults, rapes, crime, ill health, dependency, psychosis ………….. booze booze booze
People forget that alcohol is a toxic drug and a drug of dependence.
• Approximately one third of alleged offenders apprehended were recorded to have consumed alcohol prior to offending.[20]
• New Zealand reports on alcohol, crime and anti-social behaviour highlight that each year thousands of New Zealanders are harmed by other people’s drinking and many more are made to feel unsafe.[21]
• Data obtained in 2007 by Alco-Link showed just under half (49.8%) of arrests for violence-related offences involved an offender affected by alcohol as did 78% of arrests for disorder offences.[22]
In vino – so the 20 year old was “very drunk” I didn’t know that, how is that relevant ?
I didn’t know anyone was accusing the teens who had been assaulted of being drunk.
I believe it was Labour party spokespeople who stated that there was a great deal of alcohol at the event.
being drunk is generally not an accusation …. but an observation of intoxication by the drug alcohol.
Unless your driving a car, operating machinery or at a kids birthday party.
In the context of being a sexual abuse victim …. ‘accusing’ someone of being drunk is rape culture , defense lawyer language.
People should be able to pass out / over-dose without being sexually assaulted.
You seem to have very certain knowledge of what happened, Stunned Mullet. Whence comes this knowledge? I ask this because the answer “My arse” seems all too likely.
@ Psycho – I have no knowledge of your arse…thankfully.
Further to your spirited defense of the indefensible and it seems the PM has now acknowledged Labour let ‘their’ kids down and cancelled all further camps pending an independent review of what happened.
SM: You stated that the perpetrator felt “secure”. I called bullshit because when people are very drunk they tend to care very little about feeling “secure” – that is the way alcohol works. So your snide remark about the perpetrator feeling “secure” was bullshit. Is that spelt out clearly enough for you?
In vino ignoscum.
@Stunned Mullet,
O mugil stupide, quid ad amicem meum, In Vino, dicis?
Labour, not the PM cancelled all further Young Labour events. there’s a difference between the Party and Labour Caucus – interrelated, but each still have some autonomy.
OR
the victims were supported and given time to make their own decisions about who to involve according to their own schedule.
OR
Labour were yet another group where supervision at functions fell down and they do need to take a hard look at themselves in this regard.
OR
The leadership let the victims decide and supported their decisions, rather than revictimising them simply to cover their own arses from your smear-mongering.
I think you’re being very charitable.
I don’t believe you.
I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.
You don’t believe that I think you’re being too charitable ?
“I think you’re looking for the worst possible interpretation (e.g. “no significant repercussions if this hadn’t come out into the open”) to satisfy your political ends.”
I have no political ends as such, I do admit that my general opinion of politicians and their agents is very low indeed and that they seldom rise above my expectations of them.
I don’t believe him either.
I don’t believe you have any particular opinion on what people did or what their motives were, therefore I think that any opinion you claim about that is a lie.
As for your general low opinion of politicians, that’s a nice excuse for avoiding responsibility for whomever you do or do not support. It’s usually used by nats to excuse supporting people who joke about prison rape.
But then if some politicians weren’t complete sociopaths, you might actually have to make a nuanced argument about why you disagreed with their policies and actions rather than just leaping to the worst possible interpretation.
To be fair Ed I don’t think who or what you personally believe adds a great deal to anyone’s argument apart from your own.
@McFlock – I can assure you I have quite strong opinions on teens being assaulted and also the stupidity organisers of functions in allowing abundant alcohol at such events – I’d be surprised if anyone didn’t have strong opinions on such things.
As I have stated a number of times I did not vote for the Nats at the last election – in relation to my general low opinion of politicians I think you’ll find I’m hardly an outlier amongst the general public.
Assure all you want.
I still don’t believe you, for reasons stated above.
I think you’re being very charitable.
Don’t ask us what we think you’re being, because the answers wouldn’t be pretty.
A bit like your arse ?
I’m pretty sure the incident(s) is/are enough to be discussed on their own merits instead of having a shady conspiracy to explain it.
I’m pretty sure the only reason it’s in the news is for the political point scoring done by the RWNJs.
No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM.
“No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”
I presume you have heard of Harvey Weinstein?
Or will you insist that “citation needed”?
i didn’t know Weinstein was a NZer and he committed his crimes in NZ?
Where’s the evidence?
Poor attempt at diversion Anne. Please do better.
Perhaps you could explain where in DTB’s comment does he mention New Zealand?
His comment was, in full
“No other case of sexual abuse gets this sort of attention from the MSM”.
I was only considering NZ.
Now, citation that all other sexual assault cases in NZ get the same attention from the MSM.
They don’t all get the same attention but high profile cases (i.e politics, actors, public servants et al) are obviously going to garner more attention.
In fact on Stuff an inappropriate teacher/student relationship has been leading some of the day today – ahead of the Labour case
You really do like to change your argument don’t you.
1. Qualify it down to only in New Zealand.
2. Require proof that ALL other cases get as much attention as this.
Originally it only required a single case anywhere to prove your argument wrong. Now you are going to claim you are in the right unless I can prove that every single case of sexual assault got at least as much activity on the MSM. Every single case!
No, you prove your original point. You made it. You justify it.
Or admit you are just talking out of your arse.
If DTB were to speak out of his arse his arguments would likely make for better reading.
‘Parp RWNJ, Phweep neoliberal…Hmmmpfff can’t afford the rich…plop.’
Coverage on Maori TV is IMO indicative with it’s Nat stacked management and board.
Bullshit Draco – you know as well as I do this would be covered if it were involving the National party and if it wasn’t you, just like me and everyone here, would be screaming about the media covering it up (or some such).
Wrong. It’s well known the Young Nats had a history of bad behaviour. Not saying they still do but a few years ago… ask David Farrar. Why did it never make the public arena? It was covered up. No MSM histrionics there – oh no.
” It’s well known the Young Nats had a history of bad behaviour”
Citation needed. If you are going to accuse others of similar things you really need to back it up because they are serious allegations
Ever hear of the princess parties? Did you not read Dirty Politics by Nicky Hager?
Sure I read it but d no one has come forward with any complaint so you can’t just make stuff up based upon that.
Until such a time as someone complains or an actual incident has been established it is meaningless speculation
Warning! Right wing concern troll calling him/herself John Selway has been sent to TS. Wonder who his/her masters are… and what his/her previous mission was?
Now there’s a real conspiracy theory for the deniers to dig their fangs into. 🙂
WTF?
That was such a terrible movie though. I couldn’t make it past the first half hour.
Disagree, it’s a brilliant movie.
Stunned mullet needn’t think of himself in such un PC terms though, I’m sure he’s a smart guy who just lost his ideological way
Of dear… minus a s.o.h. too Selway? Should have added 😛
Not just the young nats ( or old dirty politics Nats ), and their email trail of conspiracy to get woman pissed …. to have drunken sex.
But a government who promote and elevate one of their mp’s to oversee law and order …. despite being aware of serious allegations against their mp ….. https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/64362474/nat-mp-in-police-assault-inquiry
http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/what-really-happened-to-mike-sabin-john-key-and-the-housing-minister/
http://mananews.co.nz/wp/?p=2345
Or Nationals response to NZ men and our high rate of abuse … and the resulting high number of victims …. woman & kids
Specifically the dishonest rape culture attack visited upon David Cunliffe,….then Labour leader in an election run up.
Cunliffe was attacked, dirty politics style …for saying he was ashamed to be a New Zealand man, in relation to the high rates of abuse we dish out.
Ignoring the ugly truth and confirming a sickness in our culture that infects all social strata of men …. Cunliffe was attacked for not being manly or a ‘real man’…..
John Key specifically wore a “proud to be a man” tee-shirt.
Presumably Farrar ‘polled’ the Nats cynical out of context attack .. and our media joined in the ‘derail’…. I’m sure the millions of alcohol marketing the media soaks up had nothing to do with their ignoring the issue of abuse and violence.
The whole thing stands as yet another sorry testament as to how far we have yet to travel … and the obstacles opposing …. a safe respectful society.
++1000 Reason.
Anne if you know of sexual assaults at any Nat sponsored event or indeed connected to any political party you should report it immediately regardless of when it occurred.
I don’t believe there would by anyone who would advise you against such a course of action.
Report it to who?
Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault. This is the point of #metoo. That’s not even up for question. What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
I find that is far far too broad, Weka and basically sounds like all men guilty.
Report it to who?
The police
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.
“What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”
If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.
“I find that is far far too broad, Weka and basically sounds like all men guilty.”
You need to clean out your ears then, and start talking with women who are more than willing at this point to explain. To be clear, I am not saying all men are guilty.
Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.
More than happy to ask around though
Report it to who?
The police
Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Um what ? I don’t know where you hang out and work Weka but this does not reflect my, my friends or our families experiences.
Good for you. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, sexual harassment, abuse and assault is common. I’m not saying all men do this. I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.
“What’s being argued here is whether National would be treated differently than Labour by the MSM were allegations to be made publicly or shared with the media.”
If that’s the case and there are those that have suggested that National or their proxies have the same issues they should report those instances so as to ensure they are addressed in the first instance and thereafter for those whose interest in politics in there primary motivation they could assess the MSM response.
Report to who? I can tell you many many stories of women that have been sexually harassed, abused or assaulted. I can’t take those to the police. If you don’t understand why then you need to educate yourself because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy. Rape culture and the issues of reporting to the police are well known dynamics.
The second part of that last paragraph doesn’t make sense.
weka: I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.
Agreed – given how the last PM laughed off harassing a waitress and pulling her hair as just being playful, the kind of comments seen on WO and KB, etc.
But the right usually keeps tight control of their dirty linen, so it’s probably contained well away from sunlight.
“Oh I know plenty of woman with their own stories. My girlfriend is one of them. But I don’t know where you hangout but I’m sure they wouldn’t agree it happens every where they go.”
I didn’t say that. I said that where men are generally gathered there will be issues of sexual harassment and assault. Political parties, music festivals, workplaces, social gatherings etc. This doesn’t mean that all those places/situations will have sexual harassment/assault all the time, it means that it’s common enough that it’s reasonable to assume that somewhere in recent history there has been sexual harassment or assault at a National Party event. It is common.
I’ll tell you a story. A friend of mine once said to me that she had never been sexually assaulted. In the conversation that followed she talked about the times she was felt up on the train or bus, or the time she had a male relative come into the shower with her and she had to push him out. Not all women have such stories, but many do and the common denominator is men. I don’t know what your girlfriend can tell you, but I do know that when I go into spaces where women can talk freely, the stories flow.
” where women can talk freely, the stories flow.”
Yes, they do in my experience too.
“……because at the moment you are just running lines that are meaningless fantasy.”
Strange, I have exactly the same thought about you.
“Why? If I went to the police and said that I was at an event on the weekend and I understood that someone was sexually assaulted there, what do you think they would do?”
Ask for more information and investigate..
‘..I’m saying that if you believe that National Party events have no sexual harassment issues then you are either very naive, or you are wilfully ignorant.”
Um where have I said that ? I’m saying that if you have evidence of sexual assault at such events regardless of the party involved they should be reported.
Glad we are getting clearer then. There is a lot of evidence to show that women reporting sexual harassment or assault to the police get treated badly. It’s also unrealistic to think that women can do secondhand reports. You saw Lynn’s comments yesterday. So the line that women who start talking about sexual assaults *should report them to the police needs to be understood in the context of those realities.
If you already understand the issues in reporting, then your advocating that women report seems suspect. If you don’t understand, then you are arguing from a place of ignorance.
You personally believe that Anne or whoever should report assaults they know about the police, but you haven’t argued why that would be useful or meaningful, whereas I’ve stated some pretty well known reasons for why telling women to do that is a problem.
eeeeeeekkkkk
“Where there are men gathered along with women, there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Yep.
And if you were tempted to soft-pedal it for sensitive wee souls you could say:
“Where there are men gathered along with women in sufficient numbers , there you will find sexual harassment, abuse or assault.”
Then it would be totally unarguable.
Hearing Weka’s comments, reminds me of occasions (plural) on the London Underground trains being “pressed up” against by guys with “hard ons” when it was crowded. On one occasion I said in the loudest voice I could manage “would the man behind me just take his body off mine, it’s not wanted”. On another occasion a friend and myself were in a carriage where the seats faced each other, a guy calmly undid his flies and exposed his appendage – to which my friend and I just broke out in hysterics, it was so appalling and funny at the same time.
I have never thought of it as assault, but then it happens so often that females become cynical and disgusted and just ignore it. I am quite sure as Weka says, in a free flowing chatter with a bunch of women these stories would be rife. A neighbour once said to me “a man’s brain is in his penis”. I often think of that comment.
This is why I find the argument of ‘you should go do the police’ either ridiculous or part of an agenda. Imaging going to the police and telling them that some man who you don’t know and can’t identify just put his hand down your trousers. It’s beyond ridiculous. And that’s not even getting to the issues around power and intimidated, who believes who, the sexism, misogyny and rape culture within the police etc.
In my younger days, I was confronted by flashers in Shortland Street (broad daylight), near Long Bay, Auckland (broad daylight) and Spain and Portugal a few times. These are the ones I recall. Also sexually harassed and followed in Carlile in the north of England.
I got to thinking there was something wrong with me that I attracted these types. They seemed to be all over the world.
Yes. I lost count of the number of times men exposed themselves to me. Over time it became ho hum… here we go again. I recall an occasion many years ago when I was walking my two dogs round a local coast line. I looked behind me and there was this tall, gangly, bearded fellow, stark naked, leaping over rocks towards me. I took off… and my dogs followed suit. There we were flying over the rocks at the rate of knots… our feet barely touching the ground. The bearded torso gave up and wandered off. We arrived safely at a well patronised beach and I swear my dogs were grinning with sheer joy.They hadn’t enjoyed themselves so much in a long time.
I didn’t bother to tell the police because I knew they would do nothing.
Oh and for a bit of a giggle… a woman I knew had a similar experience at the same bit of coastline albeit a different naked body involved. She had a large dog with her who waltzed up to the offender and bit his appendage. She rapidly took herself and the dog as far away from the scene of the crime as was possible and never returned.
“I am becoming convinced that this Youth Camp incident is being used by Labour’s opponents to destroy General Secretary, Andrew Kirton. ”
Probably. But then Labour used texts by Chris Bishop to try to destroy his career. And ‘coincidentally’ around the same time as news of this whole business at the Labour camps started leaking out.
[Citation needed]
You really do need to be able to back up an accusation like that.
Within a couple of days of the assaults the bishop “story” broke.
From HDPA on newstalkzb: “I’ll be honest. I knew about this before the election. I knew there were messages about this. Guess how I found out? From the Labour Party. The Labour Party knew about this. So the only reason it has been delayed is probably because the parents would finally talk about it. The Labour Party has probably been working on the parents to try and get them to talk to the media. So this in my opinion is a Labour Party hit job. And I think it’s actually disgusting to be honest.”
And yet Slater considered the attack on Bishop to be coming from within National at the time. https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/02/bishop-victim-blue-blue-attack/
“Several reliable sources are saying that Chris Bishop was the victim of some utu by Bill English and his faction after Bishop, Nikki Kaye and Todd Muller were held responsible for the chatter about Bill’s leadership and leaking to Barry Soper and Richard Harman.
Apparently, Bill is pretty pissed off with the three of them, and had been saving up the “Chris Bishop is a pervert” story for when he next got out of line. ”
In this case I’d tend to go with Slater’s view rather than someone who buys a firearm by impersonating a police officer. The girl has a strong track record of making shit up.
you have anything to back up that HDPA was telling porkies on this occasion?
Only her reputation, and you know, Dirty Politics.
What you quoted about is her opinion based on sweet fuck all. She has a theory about the timing, and no evidence.
It’s not an opinion she stated that she was told by “the Labour Party “
That seems fairly clear cut. I do not recall labour denying it.
Well good for you if you believe her. I don’t see any reason to based on how she framed the whole thing. Which isn’t to say that someone in Labour didn’t say something to her, it’s just that we have no idea who or why or how or what the context was. In other words, this wasn’t journalism, it was some hack abusing her position of power by stating her partisan reckons on the radio. If you think that constitutes useful evidence, that’s up to you.
@ James. It’s the way she has worded it. Your quote doesn’t actually say Labour “told” her and at the end of your quote, she points out that it’s her opinion.
Should edit that to being party to impersonating a police officer. However, had Gun City done their job properly HDPA would have been answering hard questions in a bare room with a desk, and getting used to stainless steel decor.
Bottom line, she obtained a firearm without having a firearms licence. Naughty.
Nice deflection attempt.
It does highlight Duplicity-Allen’s dishonesty, doesn’t it.
Same James
Your willingness to believe Slater over anyone is touching.
In this case he’s probably closer to the action and reality than HDPA.
“In this case he’s probably closer to the action and reality than HDPA.”
That may be true, but there are other factors at play here. Slater can’t stand English (there is deep set and long term personal history there), and so he was happy to implicate English in this. Yet even he accepted this came originally from a (failed) attempt by Labour:
“…Labour are behind the information; the girls and families involved all have close Labour links. It is disgusting that Labour parents are prepared to use their children as bait, but that’s Labour for you. The fact is that Labour tried and failed to run this hit BEFORE the elections.”
https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/02/bishop-victim-blue-blue-attack/
And, as Carolyn points out below, Slater now blames labour squarely for the Bishop leak, based on https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/03/now-we-know-why-bishops-snapchat-issues-were-leaked/.
If nothing else, Slater knows dirty politics when he sees it.
Those remarks from slater weren’t just made in passing. He claims to have everything all sewn up and explained.
Given what Bishop was doing, (communicating with “teenagers” on Snapchat) it’s more than possible that there were multiple hit files held by multiple entities relating to multiple and seperate occurrences.
Yes, that. And the timing – something we better understand now that something of a timeline of the labour sex scandal stuff has emerged.
Which is probably just coincidence and you’re just trying to find a link where none exists.
That’s not what one would call a citation of value. HDPA has it in for Labour.
What’s needed is a timeline of quotes that shows that it came first from Labour. After all, HDPA may have heard about it from Labour but Labour may have heard about it from National first. Or HDPA heard it from National first but didn’t say anything until she could say she heard it from Labour first.
And the latter part of that paragraph is obviously a hit piece.
I believe it was first reported in the Sunday star times on 11 Feb 2018.
In my google search, I found that Soper wrote about it a day or so after the story in SST, saying it was probably no coincidence that it came at a time when Labour was at a low point because of Charter Schools policy.
An I read the google blurb of a post on WO about 6 hours ago that says:
Soper and WO – just opportunists, seeding ideas without any evidence.
That seems to be the typical MO of RWNJs. They simply invent shit to throw at their opponents and we’re seeing more of it now.
“They simply invent shit to throw at their opponents and we’re seeing more of it now.”
yeah but it isn’t an exclusively RW phenomena – people here have been throwing around the idea that this whole Labour Youth Camp story is part of a media conspiracy to drown out embarrassing stories about National. Both sides do it
yeah. And the Timeline for the Labour Summer Camp abuse doesn’t really fit.
From RNZ:
So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed.
An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.
“So WO would have us believe that the Sunday Star Times article of Feb 11 was published at the same time as the Youth Camp organisers were made aware of the abuse, and 3 days before Kirton was informed. An article appearing in the hard copy of SST, would likely have been prepared and printed the night before.”
Hi Carolyn
I don’t think that is too much of a stretch. If you look at the news cycle in the era of digital communications, news gets on-line incredibly fast. Evidence of that is the amount of crappily written articles that appear on-line.
Baba, my link is to an article on Press Reader – that provides scans of the hard copy of newspapers.
So it first appeared in the hard copy of the SST on that Sunday morning.
“So it first appeared in the hard copy of the SST on that Sunday morning.”
Hi Carolyn…It’s tight, but still possible. The alleged incidents at the camp took place on the 10th. Copy deadlines for the SST are into the early morning of the 11th. I know you’re using the timing of when the camp organisers were informed of the sexual abuse allegations, but that isn’t necessarily the first time this event was aired, social media and all that. Both HDPA and Slater (now) claim the Chris Bishop text story was a Labour hit job, and the timing fits.
But on 13 February Slater was saying the Bishop thing was blue on blue.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14-03-2018/#comment-1460536
Well, that’s the trouble with lying so often – you forget and start to contradict your own lies.
How does your posting now square up with your rather creepy and nasty defense of drunken Rugby players accused of sexual abuse James ? ….
Specifically the Waikato chiefs ….. and their cover-up …. where the whole team took the fall ….. and the actual guilty perpetrators were Never named.
It took place around the same time Key was always photographed pissing it up in the All Blacks changing room …. and was on the cover of some rugby mag.
James exploits the misery of abuse victims to play politics.
Utterly contemptible.
At this stage, it’s looking like the Labour Party needs to look at its systems. Of course Labour opponents will use such stories any way they can against Labour.
But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .
It may be hard to take for any strong Labour supporter. But the Labour summer camp was poorly managed – by Ardern and Kirton’s own admissions. And there is work that needs to be done there.
At this stage, without all the facts, the prime consideration should be for the survivors/victims.
But, by foregrounding politics, you are belittling the victims’ experiences of being abused .
Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.
Open Mike is the right place to do so and if you don’t like it Carolyn_Nth then don’t participate.
Really? If I read something on TS that I disagree with, I am quite entitled to state that disagreement.
In this case, I think it is very important to give consideration to the survivors. So I will state my views.
Comparing allegations of sexual assault to the scurrilous attacks on Cunliffe’s form letters etc, IS diminishing the seriousness of sexual assault – and that needs to be said. Denial of the seriousness is not helpful in moving forward.
I do think the left in NZ has a lot to learn about dealing with sexual harassment and abuse within the left. Unfortunately it happens – and it has been happening for a long time.
The media also is beating up on the topic in ways that are not helpful. Judith Collins is throwing her oar in, in a very unhelpful way.
I’m glad to see Labour are owning up to their mismanagement of the camp and aftermath, and are taking the time to investigate and and review their systems and protocols.
The left needs to be looking at ways to improve on this issue.
No-one has said you aren’t entitled to state a disagreement. It was merely an alternate course of action which I’m equally entitled to promote.
I refer you to a commnent @ 5 on today’s ‘Nicky Hager’s post – it would seem others are also thinking along similar lines to me and I don’t see any subsequent remonstrations.
“……those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans”
To be fair the majority of bans handed out were only to those from the perceived political right who ignored the instructions, not those from the perceived political left who ignored the instructions.
I think that says more about the behaviour of RWers than anything, but by all means point out the problematic posts I missed and I’ll take a look.
Going by much of what happened yesterday (and tbh, much of the reactions to moderation all year), I suspect that there are still quite a few commenters who don’t understand what the moderation was for or why it was happening. This is why I keep saying if you don’t understand then ask. Quite a few people yesterday chose to just do what they wanted instead.
Ok here you go
https://thestandard.org.nz/talking-about-sexual-assault/#comment-1460399
https://thestandard.org.nz/talking-about-sexual-assault/#comment-1460011
https://thestandard.org.nz/talking-about-sexual-assault/#comment-1460097
https://thestandard.org.nz/talking-about-sexual-assault/#comment-1460037
These all appear to be politicising the post wherein there was instructions not to politicise..
I think you have misunderstood what I mean by “don’t politicise rape”. I didn’t say “don’t talk about Labour or National”. In fact I started the post by talking about Labour and I specifically mentioned Dirty Politics and the RW attacks.
Yesterday weka wrote an excellent post where the victim’s experiences were exclusively discussed. She made it clear it was NOT to be used to discuss any political aspect and those who chose to ignore her instructions copped hefty bans. I applaud her for the stand she took, but that does not mean we can’t ever discuss other aspects of the case including the political fallout.
The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS. I put some boundaries on that, including saying don’t politicise the issue. This doesn’t mean don’t talk about Labour’s responsibilities in this situation, it means don’t use sexual assault as an excuse for partisan attacks on Labour. If people want to critique Labour on this, that’s ok by me, although I think there are still issues there in terms of what information we have access to. Both the MSM vulturing, but also the needs to not dig into the information around the people who were assaulted.
It’s a given for me that any time something happens that puts Labour at a disadvantage, or shows some weaknesses in them, the right will attack and those attacks are likely to include Dirty Politics. That’s the political environment we live in now. I think with sexual assault we need to be careful to not make the party politics more important than the rape culture politics, hence the post yesterday. But it doesn’t mean the party politics are unimportant completely.
The post wasn’t about the victim’s experiences, it was about how we talk about sexual assault, esp on TS.
Yes weka, that was what I meant but didn’t express it at all well. I value your efforts to provide a safe place where women in particular can talk about their personal experiences and discuss the ramifications of sexual misconduct and other forms of abuse primarily suffered by women.
As far as I could see, the Young Labour summer camp has always been managed on a pretty amateur basis. That is because Labour doesn’t manage them. They are managed by Young Labour, an organisation that has permanent turnover issues for obvious reasons. They are pretty good at getting along luminaries from the Labour party and its MPs, but as much as anything else that is because they ask and many of those being asked have been to them in their youth.
(I do feel that it is important to emphasize this for people who seem to ignore the important points).
I have been to a few of them over the decades generally because one of my younger relatives wanted to go and I could provide transport. I have never noticed the Labour party organisation being in charge. Just some older Labour party members being drafted in from the local area and others like myself turning up as well.
Young Labour seem very much to me to be hand in glove with Labour.
http://www.younglabour.org.nz/
Thanks. Useful info.
However, this seems to set up a problem, or potential problem that has surfaced with these sexual assault allegations.
Young Labour IS a wing of the Labour Party, and all Labour Party members between 15 yrs and 26 yrs are automatically members. i also see that the Young Labour twitter account is authorised by Andrew Kirton.
I can understand wanting to give Young Labour a fair amount of autonomy in their constitution, election of officers, and, by the sound of it, organising the summer camp.
Nevertheless, when the sexual assault allegations were made, Kirton was brought in to deal with it. I get the impression he wasn’t called in until someone on Facebook contacted Megan Woods about it (one of the victims, though Woods didn’t know that). Woods referred it to Kirton. [didn’t Kirton also deal with the allegations about Labour Party interns last year?]
And the PM is speaking about it and taking some responsibility for the management of the allegations, and an investigation. Though i would have thought the PM doesn’t have a lot of responsibility for the wider Labour Party? Isn’t there some degree of autonomy between Parliamentary Labour and the Party?
However, the case does reflect on the Labour Party generally – Young Labour partly works to promote the Labour Party to young people. And, to some extent it is seen as an indication of the left in general.
I’ve seen several comments on social media from older adults talking about the need for adequate adult supervision of 16 yr olds at parties.
I’ll wait to see how the Labour Party investigation deals with this weakness in the Young Labour set up – affiliated but somewhat autonomous.
+1 Anne – we need to stop this tribalism bullshit. Labour has fucked this up.
I like Labour, I vote Greens and I think Ardern is the best PM we have had in a long time but despite all that – Labor fucked it and it sounds like it isn’t the first time so they have work to do
Except it’s all coming from Labour
A week after Ardern’s PI trip needing to get as much media as poss and a week before Parliament comes out of recess and there would be questions being hammered at them.
Which is interesting coincidental timing in it’s own right if you were overly cynical.
That really does sound cynical, even if true.
I guess it is as good a way as any for the Parliamentary Labour Party to get the spotlight off their own failures and to pin the attention onto someone else.
Now they can insist on Kirton’s resignation and claim it illustrates how the strong minded(?) Labour leader won’t tolerate any misbehaviour in the party and …… Look a squirrel!
They just announced on the radio the police are launching an investigation
Good I hope they will handle it better than roastbusters.
Meh – the police will take it over soon, and a few more facts will come out. It’s not a scandal on the scale of Darren Hughes on the facts so far.
Wondering that as well Anne. Haven’t heard many public comments from the nats about it.
I’m absolutely DISGUSTED in the right wingers on the kiwiblog, they are lapping it up and the comments are obscence and insincere with no regard for the victims, it’s filthy over there. No moderation, commentors are free to spread lies, no facts required. Tossing around words like orgy etc like that are getting their own perverse sexual rise out of it all. Freaking vulgar behaviour.
Where were kiwiblog when other sexual assault issues were highlighted in the media? Not one dedicated thread re Russell McVeagh sexual assaults.
Meanwhile rightwingers are not discussing Operation Burnham and I doubt very much that any nat mps will be asking questions about that in the house next week.
Come on now – you know just like I do that if this was the Young Nats the left would be lapping it up too. A case(s) like this – politics should be secondary. Sexual assault claims are the same no matter what stripe if originates
(though I have no doubt commentators here would be far more circumspect and respectful than those angry old dicks at Kiwiblog. I haven’t even looked over there since this story broke).
Agreed re a case like this politics should come secondary.
If you do look at kiwiblog, prepare yourself first, it’s repugnant.
Really proud of the TS moderators re yesterdays thread on the subject, thanks for making it a safe place to comment and share.
Were you really proud in relation to the comments regarding Chris Bishop ?
Why yes… especially this bit at the start of the thread
“When commenting please avoid suggestions that Chris Bishop’s actions are anything other than how he has described them. There is absolutely no evidence that he has done anything but what he says he has done.”
https://thestandard.org.nz/was-the-political-hit-on-chris-bishop-an-inside-job/#comment-1447391
You must have missed the comments regarding ‘grooming’.
I don’t think I can stomach Kiwiblog right now.
They keep going on about the ‘illegitimate’ PM with her ‘bastard’ child….
Makes me retch
I rarely go to KB. But judging by the kinds of comments I’ve seen on there in recent times, the right have no reason to be complacent or throw stones at the left on gender matters – there are too many misogynistic, racist, homophobic comments there – supports and promotes rape culture and abuse of relatively powerless groups. To be avoided if possible.
Maybe the 20 year old was a National party plant?
Sheesh, i’ll fetch my tinfoil hat now. You’ll be seeing Nats under the bed soon
I have the same feeling about it Anne. Also remember what happened to Len Brown. Bevan Chuang was involved with dirty politics maestro Jordan Williams. She was I think used as bait. Really fishy. Of course Brown shouldn’t have fallen for the bait but I wonder why the perpetuator was there is it chance or is someone else behind it. I think the same chanels are being used and Murphy has been up to his neck in DP too.
I beg your pardon ?
Are you suggesting Ms Chuang was coerced or otherwise into a relationship with Len Brown by a party or parties unnamed ?
Well she was also in a relationship with Luigi Wewege from John Palinos camoaignand he leaks it to Williams from the “taxpayers union” and he went to the press so who knows what went on.
I have the same feeling about it Anne.
Yes. It’s getting more obvious by the hour Fairy Godmother. Look at the way the rw trolls are now attempting to undermine individuals on this site.
Andrew Kirton won’t resign. He’s proving to be far too valuable to the party.
That is why he is being discredited.
As lprent has already pointed out, Young Labour run their own youth camps – something which will now have to change. It’s to Kirton’s credit he’s shielding them and taking the hits for this apparent muck up.
I personally don’t think anyone should resign over this but a public mea culpa by someone should be offered
Increasingly, that’s the impression I’m getting Anne. The defender of John key, Mike Hoskings, is demanding Kirton’s resignation. Hope he ignores it.
I’m sure he will. 🙂
Anne
For better or worse, the media will go to town on any sort of event which involves, political parties involved in allegations of sexual Impropriety. This isn’t a conspiracy and to compare it to the David Cunliffe incident is really diminishing the seriousness of a sexual assault.
It was not a comparison. It was merely an example (in inverted commas) that happened to spring to mind as I was typing, and which in my view typifies the sort of DP behaviour currently being run on this particular issue involving the recent Labour Youth camp.
Do you recall the media coverage around John Key inappropriately touching a pony tail.
Its not dirty politics for the media to report on these things.
Anne,
The only acts of destruction here have been at Kirton’s own hands.
1 He allowed an ill supervised event to go ahead with excess alcohol being drunk by underage children.
2 When he became aware of the sexual offending, he closes it down and covers it up and hopes it goes away.
His actions were never victim focused, they were party focused – hoping to avoid bad publicity.
If he was so victim led with his responses why were the victims complaining to MP’s that nothing was being done?
Why – now the parents have found out through the media – do we see that the victims are heading to complain to the Police. An option they should have been encouraged to pursue at the earliest opportunity.
No one in their right mind should expect a vulnerable and confused 15 or 16 year old to have the ability to make a rational, adult decision around the best way to deal with something as personal as unwanted sexual assault.
That’s why their parents and the Police are there to discuss support and legal options for redress.
Minimizing sexual molestation and pretending it doesn’t matter is what you would expect from a cult or some inbred red neck community, not from a Political Party that prides itself on its progressive and diverse ‘inclusiveness.’
Hint: Its not too ‘judgey’ to report sexual molesters to the Police no matter what their political colour.
Sorry but disagree with the view on how AK and his advisors have handled this
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102201208/Labour-Party-confirms-sexual-misconduct-at-camp-parents-and-police-not-told
“He said he wouldn’t change the way the party had handled the situation but in future would tell Ardern if that was what she wanted.”
Question without telling our PM how does she know if she wants to know is that not what a good PM’s minder is there for, to shield them and allow plausible deniability ?
Given how this story has grown, as we are feed more information. That AK would have only told our PM, displays for me his inability to discern how the media reacts to a political story (that was going to “get out”) and that it is part of his job description to minimise such damage from a story NOT feed it.
Shades of Yes Minister with the need to know discussion.
Learning curve for AK, but I really feel he was sincere in his interviews this morning on the telly.
PM is giving a presser about it at 3pm
Interestingly the nats are being very quiet. I wonder…?
When someones shooting themselves in the foot its best to keep quiet lest you take the focus away
@ Chris T (4) … and information has been released that NZDF and the previous National government mislead, lied to and deceived NZ on the activities of Operation Burnham and the atrocities inflicted on civilians.
But do we see this appalling event splashed across the headlines? No we do not. Why? Because there has been some alleged sexual assault incidents at a Labour Youth camp (which I’m not condoning by any means), media is using as a diversion tactic to take the heat off National, in an attempt to discredit the Labour led government!
+1 Mary
So it’s a conspiracy?
Forest & Bird lodges second appeal against Te Kuha coal mine
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/forest-bird-lodges-second-appeal-against-te-kuha-coal-mine
Doesn’t seem like much of a penalty to me. They made over a million dollars on this speculation and have to pay $847k. So they still profit over $100,000+ after doing it. Great disincentive! sarcasm.
Also where was the lawyer and real estate agent in all this, they should be fined!
It should be made impossible though the real estate process
for this to happen.
If you encourage people to speculate who don’t speak English or live in the country this is bound to happen, of course they may not be aware of the rules!
The OIA is a scam anyway because they just rubber-stamp everything anyway!
Chinese buyers fined $847k after failing to get consent to buy $5m cliff-top Auckland mansion
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12011961
The honeymoon is over for Labour and the PM. The sooner she gets a trouble shooter in who can run a tight ship the better. Heather Simpson should be shipped in and have this government whipped into shape. It’s not as though they didn’t know what was ahead of them with a very strong muck raking opposition on the benches who have many skilled personnel in the wings doing their work for them.
Discipline is needed and its not evident at present. With this new infant on the way the PM is going to be out of the picture for a while, a perfect time for mischief, I just hope Winnie is on to it. If not, its a bleak time ahead for the Labour led government and they have been given full warning of it.
Heather Simpson was shipped in to work with the Labour-led government at the end of last year.
Listener, Jan 2018, Mike Williams said,
Kinda like NZ Labour’s very own House of Lords….or some of the more prominent people the voting public voted out of office some ten years ago finding a way to cling on in there.
I don’t believe it’s going to end well.
I wouldn’t get too exercised just yet. The muckrakers will disgust all but the most dedicated Nat if they keep this up!
Yep I agree. The whole thing is just too convenient. Also Murphy is a totally discredited DP player so I don’t trust him at all to have an independent stance or actually do the job as a journalist.
Yet again the media parrots a story complaining that an industry cannot get enough workers – workout any mention whatsoever of the pay and conditions currently on offer!!
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/country/352499/dairy-farmers-struggle-to-find-workers
I live in a dairy farming area – and the pay and conditions are commonly complete rubbish. Their only acceptable solution – import third-world pay and conditions. If you want workers – pay for them!
Absolutely! We had the same thing today in HB Today about apple pickers. No mention of what orchardists are paying them. Time for a text to editor methinks.
I saw an article which said the HB pickers got paid above the minimum pay rate. But no actual sum mentioned. Very little actual uptake from the 5% HB unemployed.
It perhaps is a bit like me in the 80s when out of work for a short period and on the unemployment benefit, that a garlic grower offered me about $10 per 40 hr week more than the benefit but he then told me that was only for days that were worked. Rainy days were not paid. More than one days’ rain in a three week period saw me worse off. No longer on the benefit, and probably earning less. I found another job.
This media is a neoliberal propaganda machine.
Thanks for unblocking me
Good evening News Hub on TV 3 its a sad day when you hear that the Great Steven Hawkins died we have lost such a intelligent man Kia kaha Ka kite ano
News Hub It a good day the America cup venue looks like they are going to agree on a plan that limites damage to our sea environment. Eco Maori says that the bad publicity that Labour is receiving at the minute was a set up how easy would it have been to pay someone to do that at the young Labour function there is a lot of nasty people out there who will not stop at anything to achieve there goal of undermining and damaging Labours Mana Ka kite ano
Good grief – just stop.
Eco’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.
Once you consider that, everything makes sense.
At this stage repeating unfounded rumours are not helpful. it’s easy to start such a rumour.
Everything makes sense to me without that conspiracy theory. Let the investigation roll, then we will see.
Fair enough. There’s evidence both these organisations attempt to infiltrate the other. That’s what you get when you mix kids and politics.
I know many people would like to believe it didn’t happen. but I’ve seen some pretty atrocious behaviour from young people in my time, left and right – especially from young immature men.
I read somewhere the alleged perp was pretty mortified when confronted with his behaviour the next day.
It doesn’t help the investigation or the survivors to repeat rumours without solid evidence.
It’s the massive Dirty Politics pile on from RWNJs and the click-bait MSM which doesn’t help the investigation or the kids.
That, too.
Every time I think someone can’t get anymore delusional someone else proves me wrong
Either the National party sent a 20 year old into the party to commit a serious sexual crime (which if convicted for would no doubt have serious repercussions on travel, employment, probably end up on a list etc) just to discredit Labour
or some guy got drunk and took advantage of the situation
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrell
There’s more to come on this. None of it good for National. Just saying.
Why do you think Farrar is so intent on saying it’s not the incident which matters but Labour’s response…?
So tell us what you know then
Please. I can’t reveal my sources.
Too late I’ve already located the source of your information: https://imgur.com/gallery/zIb676w
I’m picking you have none.
If you are proved right – I would be right there next to you calling for them to be jailed.
Would you say the same if he turns out to be related to labour somehow ?
” I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.”
Jesus Christ man – are people that tribal with their politics they just accept what is in front of them? It has to somehow be a big conspiracy?
Actually, what does it change if the guy was a Nat? Young Labour still failed to provide a safe environment.
If it was a Nat plant set on discrediting the Labour Party, why has it taken so long to surface?
And, basically, it just looks like the left trying to blame shift and avoid responsibility.
So, let the investigation roll. Labour seems to now be making a very good response.
Nicky Hager’s book proved there are conspiracies of this nature. Any and all malevolence is possible from the right wing then they are desperate to regain or hold onto power.
I see a former young labour member on twitter saying she was asked by them to infiltrate the young nats so it works both ways. But regardless – it doesn’t matter if the person was a young Nat, a young labour or fucking young Freemason.
What Carolyn said above – shifting blame to some conspiracy is completely unhelpful and stupid
“Muttonbird’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was the son of a Labour Cabinet Minister
Once you consider that, everything makes sense”.
There, how’s that for another rumour?
So does that mean Kirton’s below average response which has ended up embarrassing the PM and the party mean that he’s a Nat plant as well?
Maybe the 4 victims are in on it too?
Maybe Simon Bridges dropped off a trailer load of free booze to precipitate it all?
Maybe he made the victims wear ‘hand magnets’ that unwittingly attracted the 20 year old’s hand down their pants?
Seesh. I’ve heard of one eyed supporters but thats just being a bit too hopeful.
The Nats obviously rate Kirton highly to have the Dirty Politics machine engaged against him. It’s a risky business.
So you’ve turned a baseless conspiracy into a rumour into a fact
Are you new to this site John?
You seem surprised. This is par for the course.
Wow what a comment. A person in NZ willing to risk a criminal sexual assault conviction with all the life time stigma for a political party. You should either have to put up evidence or withdraw. That is a massive accusation and should have to back that up.
Yes please do sm.
News Hub more bad weather Ingrid its all good for Eco Maori has finished my outdoor mahi all this rain is good for farming . These a phenomenon when the townies are happy dry hot weather the farmers are unhappy and when its a wet season like we have now the farmers are happy ka kite ano
Is anyone going to the “Climate Change & Business Conference Seminar – New Year, New Government, New Approach” with James Shaw tomorrow night?
I gather two of the Green MPs have been coerced into attending.
That’ll make three people there then.
The other Green MPs are all on overseas jaunts I understand.
Damn, it’s easy to look through 150 comments when you ignore most of the threads where tory fuckwits are suddenly pretending they care about sexual assault of people they don’t know.
Why is NZ’s environmental regulator trying to muzzle scientist Mike Joy?
I wonder….
https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/14-03-2018/why-is-nzs-environmental-regulator-trying-to-muzzle-scientist-mike-joy/
Ed, thanks for the link to that story.
Why do corporate/business interests seek to influence government regulatory agencies, Universities, etc., to silence expert critics? It’s because they can’t win evidence-based debates. Also, the chilling effect on others that might be in a position to speak out.
Waikato University’s lame “international law expert” seems to be
ignorant of Britain’s violations of international law.
The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 14 March 2018
Jim Mora, Mai Chen, Michael Moynahan, Caitlin Cherry
Long time sufferers of this lightweight chat show will be familiar with the witterings of Waikato University’s “international law expert”, one Professor Alexander Gillespie. On one of his most infamously stupid guest appearances, back in 2015, he solemnly pronounced that the United States and Great Britain had tried to bring “freedom and democracy” to the Middle East.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04092015/#comment-1066917
This afternoon Gillespie was back at it. When host Jim Mora asked him what he thought of Winston Peters’ suggestion that the Russian poisoning incidents should be subject to an international inquiry, the “international law expert” summoned up all the gravitas he could muster and intoned: “The British have a great legal system, and they have a lot of integrity.”
In an impressive display of self-discipline, no one in the studio even snickered.
More Al Gillespie idiocy if you can bear it….
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05102016/#comment-1240290
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17082015/#comment-1059852
At least two AMI insurance branches in Christchurch (Riccarton and Hornby) were closed indefinitely from today. My first thought was that AMI management have found a new way to cheat their policy holders. But a security guard told me it was in response to death threats to staff. I have searched through Stuff, past reports on Dairies ditching ciggies, Spy drama on Queen Street, the Harry and Meghan movie, and Reusable toilet paper, but can find no report on the AMI story. Clearly the news is being suppressed – but why? Surely a report on a threat of violence would be a perfect fit with Stuff’s editorial direction?
RIP Stephen Hawking
Damn – I loved Hawkings work
Considering how the media (and posters on here) reacted to John Key pony tail pulling or Chris Bishop texting I’d say Labour is getting off pretty lightly considering thats now three separate instances of sexual assault in the media
Has the current PM been accused of sexually harassing a young man regularly over time – and using her power to laugh it off?
Has a Labour MP been accused of inappropriate communications with young people? (I’m not someone who went into major attacks on Chris Bishop). Todd Barclay’s another matter – but even then – not sure I spent much time attacking him – then he ran away.
John Key’s behaviour, though, was appalling. He deserved everything thrown at him.
Labour failed in it’s care of young people, have owned it, and are trying to develop a better way of providing a safe environment.
Proud of Jacinda.
I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it worse than what Labour is copping now plus there would be post after post on here about it
John Keys behavior was bizarre but theres been three separate incidences of sexual assault, one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual then some one off incidences
The media love a political scandal, a political sex scandal even more and yet people talk of a conspiracy
I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things and so this scandal must somehow be the rights fault or the medias fault or anyone elses fault
“I’m pretty sure that if anything similar came out at a young Nat event the media would be all over it”
Bet they wouldnt, pretty quiet on the princess parties.
“John Keys behavior was bizarre”
Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.
“one which we’ll never know about due to suppression orders and thats now starting to sound more like business as usual”
In what what way is it business as usual?
“I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”
No one thinks like that.
“Bet they wouldnt, pretty quiet on the princess parties.”
Read what he has to say about it but as far as I’m aware there were no complaints raised
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/how_hager_got_it_wrong_on_the_princess_party.html
“Is that it? He was the PRIME MINISTER for petes sake, he physically abused a young woman over a period of months.”
For which the media went at him, hard, hell it went global big time (at least as far John Oliver)
“In what what way is it business as usual?”
Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.
Theres now three incidences that we’ve heard of and if its difficult to come forward then that means theres been more than three incidences. So its starting to sound like sexual assault is business as usual at young Labour parties (I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual)
“No one thinks like that.”
Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1
14 March 2018 at 6:48 pm
Eco’s got a point. I’m hearing the mystery 20 year old man was a Young Nat plant.
Once you consider that, everything makes sense.
The media didn’t report on it. Why?
So youre defending former Prime Minister John key physically abusing a young women over a period of months that caused her much distress?
“Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern.”
so you have come to that conclusion on 3 incidents that occurred over a span of how many years?
Are you saying Labour forced the courts to suppress the case? you know all the details do you? And do you realize that you have contradicted yourself? you said its business as usual then you end by saying “I’m saying sounding like not that it is business as usual”
so, which is it?
Frankly, you are not making much sense.
You didn’t make a reference to the 20 year old. What you said was “I personally think that there are some (not all) on here that really do believe that the left are completely blameless and only the right do bad things”
That’s what I responded to when I said no one thinks like that.
It’s raining false equivalences here. Going to put out the sick bag.
Agreed, what happened at the young Labour parties are much, much worse yet not as much coverage in the media
“much, much worse” compared to what? and what planet are you on? its getting a lot of media coverage.
I assumed AB was referring to pony tail pulling and texting so I was agreeing with him that sexual assault is much, much worse (in my opinion anyway)
“its getting a lot of media coverage.”
Go to the stuff homepage and you have to scroll down to the National page to get any coverage but some dead ells and jobs kiwis are up the top
You are busy today.
Overtime?
Jealous?
No.
Yeah you are, you’d love to get paid to do this
You dont think the former PM physically abusing a young woman at her work over a period of months is not assault? If it had of been anyone else that person would have been charged.
All media outlets are covering it. Stuff has a fair amounts of articles on it, did you not check out the politics section? the Herald too and Newshub, NH in particular is loaded with articles on it and not much else.
Yet barely anything on the Defence force having lied. In fact, its getting suitably buried.
“It’s no worse than what appears to have happened at the former Princess parties – young Nat women being plied with alcohol and well… you can guess the rest.”
Yes it is worse because something happened at the young Labour party, we don’t know what exactly happened (and quite frankly we don’t need to know) but something wen’t down whereas you have one snippet of an email making reference to a party that no ones any details of and no complaints have been raised so yeah it is worse
If you care to consider what he has to say about it you can read it here:
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/how_hager_got_it_wrong_on_the_princess_party.html
“All hushed up and the MSM didn’t touch it with a barge poll.”
They didn’t touch it because no complaints were made
“Same set of circumstances with the Labour Party version but this time the MSM are all over it like venomous vultures. What a stark contrast in the responses.”
Its not the same set of circumstances because we’re now up to three separate incidences, that we know of, including one which went to court
Very busy…
Are you being paid well?
Thats a freebie, the comment I was replying to must have been deleted
Your chief ‘concern’ appears to be the ‘party political’ dimension, so please consider that no Labour party politician or staffer has been accused of being the perpetrator of these regrettable assaults.
Whereas repeated unsolicited hair pulling by a sober PM and National Party leader was (rightly) international news. Of course, the motivation for Key’s assaults was not sexual in any way; honest John might just as well have been tugging on the ponytail of a male waiter. Nevertheless, by a ponytail puller we were led.
The assaults committed by an allegedly drunken 20-year old are of a more serious nature, but using these assaults to manufacture smears of sexual nature against Labour is simply desperate.
Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.
Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)
Thats three separate incidences at similar events, run by the same organisation
and that means, whether you like it or not, that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark
Busy……
If you want me to hook you up just ask
“Something rotten in the state of Denmark” – are you being deliberately vague?
Can you be more precise, or is smearing the name of ‘chris73’s’ game?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-denmark
“Note: “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” is used to describe corruption or a situation in which something is wrong.”
Thats three separate incidences at similar events, run by the same organisation which suggests something is wrong
Establish what happened, and support the victims (whose wishes are paramount.)
What, precisely, do you (‘chris73’) know or suspect Labour party MPs and/or staffers are ‘guilty’ of? Perhaps something more than poor planning/oversight of these events?
What do you think is the ‘something’ that is wrong – be as precise as possible. [Don’t worry, my expectations are low.]
Because if you know something, it’s your duty to come forward (with the agreement of the 16-year old victims, of course.)
C’mon chris73, be a hero.
I know that there have been three separate incidences. I know one of those incidences went to court. I know that of the latest incident the police were not specifically mentioned. I know that the very next day of the latest incident a smear attack on Chris Bishop was launched. I know that at young Labour parties young men and women are being sexually assaulted.
And I know that people like you are trying to minimize whats happened
Although remote from it, I’m concerned about what has happened to the 16-years olds; I hope that they are being supported, as (I’m sure) do you.
And I hope that it doesn’t happen again – although after reading your comments I’m less certain that we share that hope.
I KNOW that you’re talking it up (Something Rotten, etc.) – and fair enough, it’s useful to understand your reason for being here.
“Labour mismanaged the camp, and will have to face the consequences. But we all know who has dirty politics ‘form’, and who the misogynistic movers and shakers are.”
Yup no minimizing or misdirection going on here: even though this happened under young Labour we all that the right are the bad ones…
You (almost) said it. [“we all that the right are the bad ones…”]
Will admit to ‘minimising’ when you admit to ‘maximising’.
But I’ll cop to misdirection; it wasn’t fair to mention the National party’s record of dirty politics and misogyny.
Methinks he has daddy issues.
Thats three separate incidences at similar events…
My God, it’s almost like sexual assault were a common occurrence or something – surely that couldn’t be possible?
No complaint to the police had been laid either until Newsroom published the story without the victims consent.
So in your mind because nothings been published msm re Young Nats, there’s never been an incident and they are squeaky clean and everyone else is evil?
Princess parties and other material showing the mindsets of Nats were published in Dirty Politics.
Your excuses still dont explain why the media never covered it.
Stephen Hawking has died
Stephen Hawking lives forever in the hearts of the Palestinian people. And all those who value justice and peace.
Dr Abu Bashir
And let’s also care for the people of Afrin.
I want the people of Afrin to live in peace.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-afrin-crisis-turkish-forces-civilians-deaths-eastern-ghouta-assad-a8247206.html
What are you trying to say here Ed?
Are you trying to say that the murder of innocents in Afrin by the Turks, justifies the murder of innocents in Eastern Ghouta by the Assad regime?
I think you need to make yourself clear.
I’m no bizzniss whizzzz (going forward, on the back of….) but over at Newsroom Pro there’s a vestigayshun into Fonterra and Beingate??? Asking why nothing was learned from Sanlu amonst other issues.
I reckon there’s a more fundamental question. Why did farmers allow their co-op to be bastardised and corporatised, and now that it may very well be going cow teets up, I’ll be wondering if we’re all supposed to feel pity for those that allowed it all to happen (going forward, on the back of failed Chinese vestmints)
I dont feel any pity
Good morning The AM Show on TV3 Is it common for Both TV 1 an TV 3 news to fan the farcical flames that is around TE Labour Party both channels had this issue in there head line News . And then I see david seenothing trying to lay the blame on Jacinda as if she put a t-shirt on and supported that kind of bad behavior david has heaps of money to get his publicity . You news people need to stop blowing this situation out of proportions as you do on many occasions I hope you like having ECO MAORI back to correct your wrongs against the 99.9% of people. Kia Kaha Labour don’t panics YOU good people have done nothing wrong chin up and keep up the GOOD Battle for the 99.9 % of common Kiwis Ka kite ano
The AM Show I agree that alcohol should not have consumed at that function.
But alcohol is so ingrained in OUR society it causes hundreds of deaths fills our prisons with people who don’t understand the side effects of consuming alcohol
the minimie age of alcohol consumption should be razed to 19 I prefer 20 but 19 one year is a easier target one year up at a time . We worship ALCOHOL it in our face every day advertised by many as a drug of choice ??????????. I say someone has to go to put that issue in the past.
Mark Steven Hawking was a brilliant man Mark nobody is going to solve the theory of everything we are on Papatuanuku mother earth for a very short period of time in its self I say if we had a culture of leaving be hind a better world for the mokos and all the creatures on Papatuanuku we would all be living in utopia now if all our for Fathers had this as a Phenomenon to worship enough said Kia Kaha Labour ka kite ano
The Am Show it makes me proud of the mokos Grandchildren of America are staying true to there cause of GUN LAW reforms in America they know that it is them who will have to clean up any mess we the parents grandparents leave for them Kia Kaha USA mokos .
For people to feel happy you need to feel your own self worth to feel like you have the same rights as the wealthy neighbor have a society were every culture is respected .Amanda it baffles me why Aotearoa has not topped the charts of HAPPIEST society and the Scandinavian country’s top the charts the big picture is we have to stop the control that the 00.1 have on our society we should copy the Scandinavian with there government systems I will bet that there systems are designed to benefit the 99.9% and not just the 00.1 are benefiting from that type of government system. For one to have a happy society don’t have to be rocket scientist we just have to copy the people that are doing the best of look into the vast past to see what system did the best for everyone .Ka kite ano
Am Show Mark I have a couple of tips I am going to give Prime TV News I will give them to Eric Young at 530 Kia Kaha Eric ka kite ano P.S The salt water hammers ones hands when I first went Scampi fishing I was told to wear gloves I did not listen after 4 days my hands were that swolen that I could just barely move my fingers I made sure to wear gloves after that the scampi have a lot of spikes lol