Was the political hit on Chris Bishop an inside job?

Written By: - Date published: 8:29 am, February 12th, 2018 - 155 comments
Categories: bill english, blogs, David Farrar, dpf, labour, national, same old national, spin, uncategorized, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

I get the feeling that the National Party caucus is not a happy place right now.  Having been denied their rightful place as rulers of the country evidence of disunity has been emerging.  First there was the hatchet job on Bill English which totally undermined the effect of his state of the nation speech a couple of weeks ago.  And the weekend’s news about Chris Bishop’s use of snapchat with teenage girls appears to me to have come from within the party.

I should emphasise that there is no evidence of any inappropriate behaviour by Bishop.  My first reaction when I read the news was good on him for trying to engage young people in politics and his description of what happened seemed perfectly reasonable.  His using snapchat was not advisable however and it is interesting that New Zealand political twitterati initially divided on gender grounds with most men initially thinking there was nothing untoward and most women thinking it was rather creepy.

His voluntary decision to change his snapchat habit was the correct one although it appears the decision was made after the complaints were lodged.

But one aspect of this story deserves further analysis.  Who leaked the content to the media and why?

I went to that source of all things right wing Kiwiblog to have a look.  Farrar’s post on the subject Anonymous Innuendo has a clearly disapproving tone.

He says this:

It is interesting that this is all about events of many months ago. And it hits the media now. You wonder about the political motivation of those involved and are either of the two parents members of a political party? If so, this is information that is relevant and should have been published.

I am not sure how to treat this comment.  If either of the parents were members of a left wing party you would think that the information would have been made public immediately.  Remember the incidents happened  before the election and Bishop was in a really tight race for the Hutt South seat.  And one of the parents approached Paul Goldsmith with the complaint which suggests it is more likely that at least one of the parents has National Party links.

Matthew Hooton commented and said this:

I guess the problem with Snapchat is the lack of a record. But I have no doubt the exchanges were as anodyne as when MPs usually communicate with school kids who contact them. This is a hit job, presumably by people associated with Bill English against one of the new MPs seeking generational change.

His comment attracted a lot of derision.  Many Kiwiblog commenters thought this was a hit job by Labour.  Their theory is that having received the information during an election campaign Labour decided to sit on it and wait until after they became Government (which was looking really unlikely) so they could use the information to divert attention away from their policy of doing away with charter schools.  Go figure.  This is Fox News quality insanity.

And over at Whaleoil nothing.  Incessant anti union anti Labour rants, cute videos and a few pictures.  But nothing about the story du jour.  And the last comment made about Bishop was to deride him for teaming up with Team English during the attempted coup in 2016.  Clearly Cameron has no time for Bishop.

The National Party caucus is not a happy place right now.  Long may this continue.

When commenting please avoid suggestions that Chris Bishop’s actions are anything other than how he has described them.  There is absolutely no evidence that he has done anything but what he says he has done.

155 comments on “Was the political hit on Chris Bishop an inside job?”

  1. Carolyn_Nth 1

    There was also a claim that Chris Bishop was a supporter of Simon Bridges for the deputy position:

    OP by Jenna Lynch in November 2017:
    “Opinion: Simon Bridges winning race to be next National leader”

    Bridges entered the race for Deputy, and in doing so represented the next generation and made some good political mates on National’s backbench. Watch for the ‘Four Amigos’ (Mark Mitchell, Alfred Ngaro, Todd Muller and Chris Bishop) to be among his first backers when Bridges makes the move.

    • dukeofurl 1.1

      Good point there.

      I see that as a hit back of the ‘friends of Simon’ as they were the ones stirring with the media before and during the caucus retreat. The stories were along the lines of – Bill will get all the time he needs to move from the leadership/ Bridges has the numbers but doesnt want to ‘push him out’-

      What this leak ,designed to harm Bishop, does is tell the plotters for Bridges is that
      Brezhnev Bill is here to stay

      • tracey 1.1.1

        The man who lost 10 bridges is in the box seat. God help us all.

        • mac1 1.1.1.1

          The bridges are a bit like Steven Joyce’s fiscal hole. They never did exist.

          Like the Bridge to Nowhere but without the bridge……….

          As for the box seat. I’d rather say Bridges was down in the pits with the hazel nut shells and the blood orange sellers- standing room only as the travelling Labour Government enacts performances to sell-out audiences.

          They won’t be doing English Renaissance drama though and The Comedy of Errors was done to death by the previous government, though elements of the community would like to see Love’s Labour’s Lost.

          • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1

            Oh Joyces hole existed. It was actually 21b and he hid it from PREFU. Now the Nats get to scream ” labour cant pay for their promises” and the media dont remind the public that it is their deception that has led to this.

            • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1.1

              “he hid it from PREFU”.
              Really?. The man must be the smartest person we have ever had in the Minister of Finance role.

              He has no say in what is in the PREFU. It is prepared exclusively by Treasury and the Minister has no say at all in what goes into it.
              It comes from reforms introduced by Ruth Richardson after the Labour Government cooked the books before the 1990 election.
              She was determined that no incoming Government should be left in the position the 1990 National Government was where the only pre-election numbers released were done by the then Government.

              Now, why don’t you read the 2017 Prefu and explain just how Joyce could have suborned Treasury into publishing false figures or conclusions?
              http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/prefubasics/prefu-basics-aug17.pdf

    • tracey 1.2

      Let us be clear. New generation means young not that there is a move to lie less.

  2. tc 2

    Have the hollowmen lost interest in National ?

    With NZF back, JK gone (after delivering the asset stripping program) is this indiscipline down to the powerful forces backing then simply not caring if they implode.

    They can be bought back anytime.

    • tracey 2.1

      No. They havent gone they are positioning the party to win the next election and revert to business as usual

      • tc 2.1.1

        Really ?

        What chances of that with the likes of Collins or Bridges up front with their used car sales routine and the role they played in the 9 years of shonky’s regime.

        There’s some large skeletons the hollowmen may want to avoid in a campaign.

        They needed Key to get elected and IMO they’ll need a similar fresh face to have a decent chance as these are all damaged goods IMO.

      • Business exactly as usual, even now. I shudder when I hear Mark Mitchell’s name mentioned .. he was helicoptered into Rodney a la Key and then groomed by the odious Simon Lusk and thus later involved in the really dirty politics. And wasn’t he a mercenary mastermind ? Details seem to have been laundered from anything I can find about him now.

  3. Carolyn_Nth 3

    They can be bought back anytime.

    Ah, it’s all about the money for these right wingers!

  4. roy 4

    The innocence of the communications aside, this is what voices of the right would refer to as ‘unfit to govern’. That alone means we dodged a real bullet last election (his winning Hutt Sth notwithstanding).

  5. Anne 5

    Cameron Slater and co… the supporters of one, Judith Collins. Blubber Boy doesn’t see fit to mention the ‘scandal’ on his blog site – at least until someone points out to him he’d better say something otherwise people will smell a rat.

    All I can say from extensive experience:

    Leopards never change their spots.

    • tracey 5.1

      Was thinking that Anne. We should take bets on when a story goes up

    • patricia bremner 5.2

      Anne you are SO right. I mentioned previously that Chris Bishop appealed to the young, and was of the new generation. He could foot it with Jacinda perhaps??

      Now Judith Collins is a Matron!! She would NOT welcome such comparisons of age. Whaleoil never had subtlety, always going for the kill, so yes, no comment shrieks information!! An inside job, with Farrar running distraction…. “look over there! The Left did it”

  6. Sacha 6

    “one of the parents approached Paul Goldsmith with the complaint”

    Which faction is he in?

    • tracey 6.1

      Perhaps they live in Epsom?

    • Carolyn_Nth 6.2

      Don’t know – but Goldsmith has associations with John Banks and Don Brash – Wikipedia says:

      Goldsmith then worked as a press secretary and speech writer for Phil Goff (Labour), Simon Upton (National) and John Banks (then a National MP).[2] …
      He has previously written the biographies of John Banks and Don Brash

      He successfully stood for the Auckland City Council in the 2007 local body elections. He was appointed deputy finance chairman by Mayor John Banks and chaired the community services committee.[2][16]

      He stood for Citizens & Ratepayers in the Albert-Eden-Roskill ward at the 2010 …

      Goldsmith stood in the Epsom electorate at the 2011 general election,[17] but lost the electorate vote to John Banks, who earlier in 2011 had joined ACT New Zealand.[18]

      So also a loose connect with ACToids.

      • tracey 6.2.1

        Goldsmith doesnt quite have the conviction to join ACT so he sits on the far right of Nats. I wonder if he is in the Collins camp.

  7. James 7

    “When commenting please avoid suggestions that Chris Bishop’s actions are anything other than how he has described them. There is absolutely no evidence that he has done anything but what he says he has done.”

    Important point – well made.

    Of course a couple of commenters have already [Deleted. Exactly what I said you should not do – MS] in other threads.

    things like this can ruin people’s lives – if he had of been [Deleted. Exactly what I said you should not do – MS] but when people infer the worse based on nothing (and actively against what the parents have said) it can have tragic consequences.

    The original article in stuff was extremely poorly written and was clearly there to “plant” that idea in the readers mind.

    I hate to see this happen to anyone in a public position regardless of their politics.

    • Sacha 7.1

      “Exactly what I said you should not do”

      Yep. What are you meant to do when visitors do not respect this site’s obligations as a responsible publisher?

    • james 7.2

      Sorry Micky – in reading this again – I was (as you point out) doing clearly the wrong thing in how I commented it – it was not my intent.

      I was trying to point out (badly as it turns out) – that I agree with you strongly on that point, and that people on this forum had been doing exactly that (obv – not linking or quoting so as not to make the same mistake).

      and that the impacts on people when this is done can be serious and far reaching.

  8. Tracey 8

    It fits the scurrilous inneuendo of whaleoil.

    If it were untoward the parents would be more upset so I too do not believe he over stepped any mark ( until contrary evidence were shown).

    The problem though is live by the sword die by the sword. Bishop miggt want generational change but he is not looking to change the lie to influence strategy, one he has induldged in from time to time

  9. Muttonbird 9

    What is it with ex-tobbacco lobbyists and doing stupid stuff? Barclay, and now Bishop. It’s an enthusiasm of entitled aggression.

  10. I feel love 10

    I appreciate your sensitivity Micky and lack of salacious innuendo. This is also a good example of The Standard not being the lefts Whaleoil and/or Kiwiblog as often stated by grumbling right wingers. Imagine if this was someone in Labour or Greens and writ by Slater or Farrar. So thanks again.

    • mickysavage 10.1

      Thanks I Feel Love. I believe it is important to stick to the politics of issues and try and keep them reality based!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      Keeping Stock? 😆

      The mother, who also wanted to remain anonymous, allegedly wrote to MP Paul Goldsmith to complain about Bishop’s behaviour.

      Goldsmith gave it to Labour just before the election?

      Is that your story? 😆 😆 😆

      • Leonhart Hunt 11.1.1

        not very credible, this is really good political info that they would have sat on during a tight election, even the perception of impropriety could have swung voters.

    • BM 11.2

      According to KS, Heather du Plessis-Allan said on the radio this morning
      that the Chris Bishop/social media smear came from the Labour Party, and they had wanted to break it before the election last year.

      Guess they had more luck this time around, must be feeling the heat from charter schools and the endless backtracks.

    • mickysavage 11.3

      Gee BM even Slater does not agree with you.

      • BM 11.3.1

        Slater is a sad has-been with no reach or power.

        He blames Bill English for his lack of success and will use any opportunity to stick the knife in, he’s an embarrassment to anybody on the right.

        He’s endlessly ridiculed and mocked on KiwiBlog, the guy has no credibility at all.

        .

        • Tracey 11.3.1.1

          And here you are spreading kiwiblog’s unsubstantiated rumor… like a good little soldier

        • mickysavage 11.3.1.2

          So does the claim that Labour had this information during the campaign but sat on it. And then decides to release it now because ACT is holding a protest. And gets it released by the “left” wing media.

          • BM 11.3.1.2.1

            Did you listen to the recording?

            • weka 11.3.1.2.1.1

              I did, and reviewed it below. What I’m curious about is what you actually think she was saying. Because everyone else is hearing HdPA saying she believes it was Labour doing a hit job. That’s all. Why would you think that meant anything?

          • Sacha 11.3.1.2.2

            “because ACT is holding a protest”

            Someone left a cake out in the rain ..

          • weka 11.3.1.2.3

            is that really the rationale for timing in the conspiracy theory? A distraction from ACT’s protest that no-one even cares about?

            • McFlock 11.3.1.2.3.1

              A protest that the government is actually following through on an election pledge.

              It really does beggar belief, but it’s the best they’ve got:

              must be feeling the heat from charter schools and the endless backtracks.

              Apparently Labour is getting desperate because they’re getting “heat” for both fulfilling and backtracking on election promises. Dissonance much? 🙄

          • veutoviper 11.3.1.2.4

            I do suggest that you listen to the H du P-A recording at BM’s 13, Micky.

            In no way proof etc of Labour’s involvement, as people have pointed out in reply to BM at 13. However, in the opinion of a friend of mine (a retired solicitor), her allegations are pretty close to the line despite the “I think .. in my opinion … etc” qualifications – and it could worth the LP retaining a copy of the recording.

        • Stuart Munro 11.3.1.3

          Was Slater ever significant except as blogger of the year, which he won with click farms? He’s not a has been, he’s a never was.

        • paul andersen 11.3.1.4

          looked in the mirror lately?

  11. Leonhart Hunt 12

    It could have also been a distraction by Mrs B to draw focus away from her, (even though we were told she is safe, shes not.. alot of people dislike her.

    No one but national would have know about that snapchats.
    Nor would have been able to find the family/parents for the story

    Most likely an inside job to create a scapegoat, in lieu of people not actually doing anything wrong, make it look like they are, Mrs B has done similar things before and is under the gun after so many things she said were true, are not backed by facts. (drug use in schools, headhunters controlling henderson high school, high drug use by beneficiaries (she even got drug testing powers for MSD off this one, but only 0.014% failed) and the list goes on, and on) Bennet cant lose her political career, she has nothing to fall back on but a social work degree,

  12. BM 13

    Labour party dirty politics in action

    Heather du Plessis-Allan:

    Why is it a story now?
    Because it’s a Labour party hit job …….

    http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/ZB/wellington/2018.02.12-09.15.00-D.mp3

    Starts at 11.30

    • tracey 13.1

      You know that isnt proof ey? As opposed to Joyce withholding 21b from PREFU ( which is proven)

      https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/7g7hya/national_leaves_labour_with_a_20_billion_bill/

    • weka 13.2

      You’re going to have to do better than that BM. If you want to claim that Labour are engaging in Dirty Politics you are going to have to put up more evidence than a RW hack’s speculative reckons.

      Yes I did listen to the audio, it’s basically her saying that because Labour knew about the messaging last year it must be in the media now because of them doing a hit job. There’s nothing of substance there. Nothing.

      What I’m seeing from you is outright spin.

      Her hypocrisy is a bit much too,

      “I think it’s disgusting to be honest… how could you be so cynical, that you would drag through the mud, the name of someone whose actually done nothing wrong. Unless you actually believe they’ve done something wrong, and where is the evidence of it?”

      😆 The lack of self reflection in that statement is astounding.

      Just in case there are people reading how still think that a selective quote from HdPA carries some weight, here’s the rest of the quote,

      “Why is it a story now?
      Because it’s a Labour party hit job
      That’s what I think…”

      She then goes on to make the connection I describe above. I guess it makes sense in her head.

      • chris73 13.2.1

        Right so she knew about it because someone from the Labour party told her but theres no way at all that anyone from the saintly, holier than holy, Labour party would ever consider suggesting to anyone in the media that there might be a story in it

        I’m not saying Labour did it but I am saying anyone not considering the possibility that Labour had something to do with it should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror

        • Leonhart Hunt 13.2.1.1

          of course they would, but it would have been used during the election if they had this information then, releasing this info now means nothing, there is almost no political advantage releasing dirty info just after an election.

          IF it was labor they would be sitting on as an ace if needed, or kept as a future card to play against a political rival later down the track.

          My money is on scapegoat, national in the parlour with the candlestick, though we will never be able to prove it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.2

          Or:

          Paul Goldsmith had the info and told HdPA and human memory being what it is, she got mixed up about the source, or Goldsmith told her and she’s just lying, like a typical National Party supporter, or no-one told her, and she’s lying like a typical National Party supporter.

          Either way, we know Goldsmith had the info from the original Stuff story, and we also know that HdPA has zero credibility and a track record of partisan hits.

          Occam’s razor – the info was with Goldsmith and it got out “somehow”.

        • weka 13.2.1.3

          If BM has said hey it’s possible Labour leaked this story, I would have agreed with him (and in fact said this in another thread). He didn’t. He’s been running a line for the past day or so that this whole thing is Labour doing Dirty Politics. That seems unlikely. It would require a two track process for instance. But even if it were true, where is the evidence? Or even a decent theory about why they would be doing this now?

          BM is just doing an amateur hatchet job on Labour, plain and simple. Hard to tell if his lines are coming from higher up.

          • McFlock 13.2.1.3.1

            well, more that BM’s trying to frame Labour for an amateur hatchet job on Bishop…

          • Chuck 13.2.1.3.2

            Labour is just as capable of playing “dirty politics”. I know that will cause a howl of outrage here…Political parties have been using journalists to leak stories into the media since sliced bread.

            There are two possibilities, 1/ Believe Matthew Hotton / Cam Slater that it was an inside job. OR 2/ Labour decided to take a little heat off them selfs.

            “But even if it were true, where is the evidence?”

            Both possibilities can’t be discounted. However one is more plausible…

            • weka 13.2.1.3.2.1

              How about you put up some evidence of Labour’s Dirty Politics history then? I think what you mean is that Labour are capable of leaking things to the media. No-one has denied that, and that’s not what dirty politics is.

              • Hornet

                That’s easy.
                https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/curran-alleges-dirty-politics

                …from the mouth of babes.

                Seriously though, you don’t honestly believe Labour are immune from DP do you?

                • weka

                  No, I just think there’s very little evidence of them having done it historically. I can think of one obvious example, but it was a long time ago.

                  Your link isn’t an example of Dirty Politics.

                  • Hornet

                    Curran herself described it as ‘dirty politics’. But to be fair she’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Depends what she meant I suppose.

                      If she could show that it was equivalent to the behaviour of Simon Lusk, for example, she might have a case.

                      Where she might find it particularly rough going in the struggle to make that case, would be in linking it to the NZLP leader’s office, or whatever they have. Party and or public resources poured into it. A deliberate attempt to conceal all such links. Similar cases involving exactly the same tactics resulting in the selection of multiple MPs.

                      Payment in some form.

                      That sort of thing.

                    • weka

                      And you also described it as dirty politics. Lots of people use the term to mean whatever they want. Pete George thinks dirty politics is people online being mean to each other.

                      Dirty Politics has a specific meaning that doesn’t include everything underhanded thing a politician or party does.

                    • McFlock

                      Pretending to be in a romantic relationship with someone to exploit them for information and joking about it behind their back rings a bell, too.

                      As someone who’s said quite a lot about the ABLP branch (and not much of it nice), at least they were straight up about it. As your link demonstrates.

                      It was vicious, bitter, stupid, snide politics at its worst, but it wasn’t even close to the stuff documented in Dirty Politics.

                    • weka

                      “Pretending to be in a romantic relationship with someone to exploit them for information and joking about it behind their back rings a bell, too.”

                      That’s gross.

                    • Hornet

                      “Lots of people use the term to mean whatever they want. ”

                      True. This definition seems about right to me http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-some-examples-of-dirty-politics.htm#didyouknowout.

                    • Hornet

                      “It was vicious, bitter, stupid, snide politics at its worst, but it wasn’t even close to the stuff documented in Dirty Politics.”

                      True. But (and do not read this as a defence) then the information about DP came from stolen emails, so I guess it’s pot/kettle/black.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Hacked (theft does not apply – get your crimes right) emails also featured in The Paradise Papers etc. Exposing wrongdoing is a absolute defence against such charges, as the bloody nose Hager gave the Crown and Police should surely have informed you.

                    • Hornet

                      “Hacked (theft does not apply – get your crimes right) emails also featured in The Paradise Papers etc. Exposing wrongdoing is a absolute defence against such charges, as the bloody nose Hager gave the Crown and Police should surely have informed you.”

                      Oh I’m happy for the expose, but it is ironic to claim other people are exclusively engaged in dirt while using stolen (point taken – I’m using the term colloquially) emails to expose them.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I can’t recall Hager’s claim that it was “exclusively” the National Party that was involved, and yes, ironically I can see perfectly well what you’re trying to do.

                      I got it the first time, in fact, so there’s no need for ad nauseam.

                    • McFlock

                      pot/kettle/black , vs being instrumental in shining light on despicable behaviour.

                      Rawshark can be both those things.

                      The people Rawshark exposed… nah. They’re much less complex.

                    • Hornet

                      “Rawshark can be both those things.”

                      I don’t disagree.

                    • @weka
                      “Pete George thinks dirty politics is people online being mean to each other.”

                      No I don’t. Please don’t attribute thoughts to me that you’ve made up. I thought that you generally frowned on unsubstantiated claims.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Yeah Weka.

                      Pete George has a reputation for thinking dirty politics is people online being mean to each other.

                      FIFY

                    • If so it’s falsely perpetuated by a small handful of liars like you perhaps. I’ve only seen it claimed here.

                      Your persistent trolling could be seen as a form of dirty politics, at a petty level, but that’s different to what Weka stated.

                    • Hornet

                      “Your persistent trolling could be seen as a form of dirty politics, at a petty level, but that’s different to what Weka stated.”

                      Anon is a petulant bully, but he does at times reach a modest standard of humour, although I’m not convinced it is intentional.

                    • McFlock

                      Hey pete,

                      This comment familiar to you?

                      The one where after Weka wrote to you

                      Liar. You don’t even understand what Dirty Politics is. Or you dissemble, because it suits your muddle of the road agenda to try and play both sides

                      you responded

                      There you go again. Playing dirty politics.

                      Sure looks like you thought calling you a liar and being a bit mean to you online was “dirty politics”.

                    • weka

                      “Your persistent trolling could be seen as a form of dirty politics, at a petty level, but that’s different to what Weka stated.”

                      Come on Pete, even you must see the irony of you saying that when you’ve just complained about being described as someone who thinks being rude online is dirty politics.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3

      “…I think…in my opinion…probably…”

      Sure BM. Double Dipton gets stabbed in the back, and by an amazing coincidence of timing, one of Soimn Bruhgiss’ mates is in the news because Labour.

      In other news, I think your amygdala probably just landed on Mars.

  13. Yes Chris seams like a good kiwi time to retiree the old neolibral philosophy of the 1% first and foremost Chris see the big picture its the people its the people and a sustainable environment for the future of the mokos Ka pai Ka kite ano

  14. mary_a 15

    Despite speculating yesterday that Chris Bishop was doing something untoward, which I now realize was unfair at the time, I have reflected on the issue and come to the conclusion, Bishop was genuine in his attempt to get NZ teenagers involved in politics (of the Natz variety of course) and nothing else.

    It was just unfortunate the way he went about it, using social media to involve teenagers of 13 years and thereabouts, something which in this day and age gets the alarm bells ringing very loudly.

    If this was an inside hit job, then it proves Natz isn’t above throwing some dirty politics at its own side. Same election, two possible hit jobs from maybe Natz … Winston Peters and his super overpayment and now Chris Bishop. Same source too perhaps, someone who feels threatened!

    • patricia bremner 15.1

      I thought it might be whaleoil and Collins. The suggestion of Mrs B makes sense, she has been supported by Bill, and returns the favour.

      No-one is talking about Waitangi now…. Hmmmmm.

  15. Dean Reynolds 16

    Whatever Bishop is, he has no dress sense – same for Seymour – a couple of sartorial peasants

    • Muttonbird 16.1

      Have to disagree on Seymour. He dresses well in the traditional style, but that is the start and finish of his talent. He’s as dense as mincemeat in all other respects.

  16. Carolyn_Nth 17

    Whale Oil now has a post claiming it was an inside hit job against Bishop

    Unfortunately, there is someone who doesn’t like Bishop and who has been shopping this story around the media and blogs for some time.

    In the comments section Slater says:

    Cam Slater mod pisces • 7 hours ago

    Because it did. Join the dots.

    Goldsmith is connected to Kaye, who is connected to Adams, who is the chosen one to replace Bill now Paula has fallen off her perch. Goldsmith knew about it.

    Who benefits from attacking a key agitator for the removal of Bill? Bill does, and so does his anointed replacement.

    This is blue on blue. Thing is everyone thinks Bill English is as pure as the driven snow, he isn’t and I can give you a long verifiable dissertation as to why that isn’t remotely true.

  17. Chris 18

    I think it was fairly obviously a Labour party hit job to divert attention from Hipkins complete hash of a job of the handling of charter schools.

    Could be wrong though

  18. Muttonbird 19

    In a typical National party move Chris Bishop is hanging out his foot soldiers to take the blame for his screw up.

    What happened to personal responsibility, Chris?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11992969

  19. Chris2 20

    I think it basically just shows something fairly glaringly

    Don’t pick a male youth spokesperson.

    If you do rule out social media as a avenue for them doing their job

    [we have another, long term commenter here called Chris. Please pick a different handle. Thanks – weka]

    • weka 20.1

      moderation note above for you to respond to, thanks.

    • Chris 20.2

      Weka

      Was going to do that but thought it might look dodgey.

      I,’ll change to Chris T

    • McFlock 20.3

      Now that’s all out of the way, maybe the rule should be “if you’re going to nominate someone to engage with youth, make it someone aware of issues around engaging with youth”.

      Child safety is one of those issues.

      Now, similarly, kids should be able to talk to MPs, e.g. if the kids chatting with a nat are kids of greens, they might not want family friction.

      So it comes down to what controls are at the nat office end to confirm and demonstrate that everything is above board – regardless of gender. What if a kid had raised a really personal issue, the mp fluffed their response, and the kid told people the mp had suggested something really crappy? That’s another and more serious way it could have gone pear-shaped. You’d need someone else present and reviewing the discussions/discussion plans to avoid that sort of miscommunication. And informing the kids that it’s not a private 1:1, although it is confidential.

      • Chris T 20.3.1

        “Now that’s all out of the way, maybe the rule should be “if you’re going to nominate someone to engage with youth, make it someone aware of issues around engaging with youth”.

        Fair point

        What makes Bishop not eligible?

        With regard to your other comments.

        Are Arderns social internet interactions with young people screened internally?

        • McFlock 20.3.1.1

          Nothing.

          But he failed to demonstrably maintain a professional boundary while engaging with young people.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if other parties and “youth” mps will be looking at their social media protocols.

          • Chris T 20.3.1.1.1

            “Nothing.

            But he failed to demonstrably maintain a professional boundary while engaging with young people.”

            Did he

            Could you point out how please?

            Because no one said he did anything wrong (apart from being a dude)

            • McFlock 20.3.1.1.1.1

              I placed emphasis on “demonstrably” for a reason.

              Could he demonstrate that all contact he had with young teens was related to his role as an MP and always professional?

              No? Then that’s how he failed to demonstrably maintain a professional boundary while engaging with young people.

              It doesn’t just apply to social media – I know tertiary educators who literally have an open door policy for office hours – they leave the door open when students come for 1:1 consultation. Not because they’re afraid of spurious allegations, but because it helps maintain and reinforce professional distance. And that keeps them safe from the unprofessional conduct of others – offers as well as allegations (and from colleagues as well as students).

              I and others have outlined specific ways Bishop could change his protocols to be safer from this sort of baseless smear.

              • KJT

                Well. As someone who worked with young people, I was trained on various methods of keeping both them and myself safe. Keeping the door open is only one.

                In Fairness, those who do not have that background, can be rather naif about it. Even if well intentioned.

                Considering that we want people to become more engaged in politics, Should political discussion between politicians and school children be shut down?

                • McFlock

                  It was actually a pretty good idea.

                  Could have had a lot more potential that blinglish twittering his fucking boring exercise walks and pizza recipes. Q&A story if lots of people have similar questions/concerns, all of that stuff – and you get to filter which content you respond to, which you can’t on a reddit AMA

      • David Mac 20.3.2

        I think that’s a wise comment McFlock.

        If it’s a child engaged with ‘Hey, I can talk with a MP’. I think the right move is to respond ‘Great news Miss X, we have an organised group called Young Nats. This is Janine’s Snapchat and email address, I’ve dropped her a line, she is expecting your contact.’

        If Miss X has a question for her MP, I think he/she needs to respond ‘Your question is important and I’d like to keep a record, please email my office and I’ll get straight back to you.’

        • McFlock 20.3.2.1

          It doesn’t even have to be that risk averse.

          One solution is to just have the office snapchat phone (or emulate a droid on your desktop). Whatever, it stays at work. Have snapchat sessions with a few staff during office hours – you’ll get random questions anyway, they can help you formulate a response. You’d do it with a media interview (was it Gareth Hughes with “Clint” offscreen? I’m sure he’s not the only one).

          If there are no messages that day, post a story that you brainstormed with the office.

          1: your responses are witnessed, but also
          2: you have an actual social media program, a planned agenda, coaching on your performance, and better answers for the questions.

          All-around win. And squeaky clean.

          • David Mac 20.3.2.1.1

            Yup, by all means do it, but do it right.

          • Chris T 20.3.2.1.2

            He is the youth spokesperson

          • shorts 20.3.2.1.3

            thats a little convoluted – simple rule social media is used to broadcast prepared messages… any direct communications with an individual push the person engaging to an official channel – official email, letter, phone where it can’t be construed as anything other than what it is

            • McFlock 20.3.2.1.3.1

              In practise it’s pretty simple – just have a social media team meeting for an hour after 10am and then one at 3.

        • Chris T 20.3.2.2

          Is that what Ardern does?

          • McFlock 20.3.2.2.1

            No idea.

            If folks don’t take this as an opportunity to look at their own house, they’re fools.

  20. Lucy 21

    I’m with the twitterati women – I think its creepy to say the least. Even if it was a member of his team snapchatting for him it’s a social media form that all politicians should steer clear of as it is so open to misintrepretation and speculation.

  21. barry 23

    Yes I agree, After dirty politics I would have thought that the media would realise that the identity of the leaker is the story.

    Last year we had the Labour party intern debacle: nobody ever explained how the complaint emails came to be sent to the journalist.

    and then we had the Peters leak. We are yet to find out who did that.

    so with the next leak, will the reporters tell us how they got their story? or are they as deeply dependent on dirty politics as ever?

    • Muttonbird 23.1

      Agree.

      The public actually get pretty annoyed with the cliquey posturing of tabloid journos like Burr and Duplicity-Allan who drop hints on who whispered what but are too gutless to tell the whole story.

      End result is we are more in the dark than ever.

      Need more Hager – he literally spells it out in black and white.

      • greywarshark 23.1.1

        “Burr and Duplicity-Allan who drop hints ”
        That spreads the suspicion around, they act as puppet masters staying distant from all the different points where the shit hits the fan as the roving gossip-hounds sniff around.

        Here is an image of how it works. I don’t know which of the journos has been caught back-on to the camera.
        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5GVLbZzs0

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2

      the identity of the leaker is the story.

      Disagree: where does that leave genuine whistleblowers?

      The motivation and context of the leak is the story 🙂

      • Chuck 23.2.1

        Agree with you OAB.

        While the MSM has abandoned the notion of journalism long ago, the ability for whistleblowers to have an avenue available to them cannot be eroded away.

        “The motivation and context of the leak is the story”

        Can’t argue with that either…

  22. Tanz 24

    Bishop has done nothing wrong, totally innocent, and good on him for chatting with youth. I have emailed Ardern and co several times regarding backtracking, and other issues, including the prayer being taken out of Parliament and Winston’s draconian Waka Jumping Bill, plus a few other issues. Not a reply to date, not one dot of an acknowledgement…on the other hand, National reply to emails within a few days or even hours. Sigh.
    The National caucus is in a great place, it’s media spin that would have it otherwise. Why wouldn’t they be? They are sill the most wanted party to rule the roost of NZ, whilst Winston First is goneburgers. Must feel good.

    • KJT 24.1

      Enjoy watching your heros running around like headless chooks for the next three years. Because the only two National MP’s with any brains have left.

      “Rats… Sinking ship” and all that. LOL.

  23. delia 25

    Chris is the kind of guy who could become popular, and I suspect the senior MPs feel threatened by him. Your day will come Chris.

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