Open Mike 14/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 14th, 2018 - 126 comments
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126 comments on “Open Mike 14/04/2018 ”

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  1. James 1
    14 April 2018 at 7:22 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/103105285/russia-claims-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria-staged-by-uk

    Russia claims the UK staged the chemical attack in Syria.

    Who would be crazy enough to believe that ?

    • tracey 1.1
      14 April 2018 at 7:51 am

      What sort of person would post that question at 7am on a Saturday just to provoke a flame war?

      • gsays 1.1.1
        14 April 2018 at 7:58 am

        Yes true Tracey, DNFTT.

      • Stunned mullet 1.1.2
        14 April 2018 at 8:05 am

        An Ed-like person…has anyone seen Ed and James in the same room together ?

        We’re through the looking glass ….

        • mauī 1.1.2.1
          14 April 2018 at 8:39 am

          Ed is a very sweet man. Nothing like James.

          • AB 1.1.2.1.1
            14 April 2018 at 9:37 am

            Yes – an important point. I may find Ed repetitive or unconvincing at times, but I don’t doubt that it all comes from a base of decency.

            • JohnSelway 1.1.2.1.1.1
              14 April 2018 at 10:19 am

              James is just as decent as Ed. In fact Ed can be pretty nasty at times, name calling and such.

              disagreeing with James’s ideological stance (which I do) is not him being indecent.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                14 April 2018 at 1:07 pm

                James’ ideological stance is indecent/immoral.

                • Monty …
                  14 April 2018 at 1:11 pm

                  No it’s not. Good god people are allowed opinions and calling him indecent and immoral is a shit statement just because you don’t like him.

                  How boring would the world be if everyone was brainwashed and just thought the same way.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    14 April 2018 at 1:24 pm

                    Good god people are allowed opinions and calling him indecent and immoral is a shit statement just because you don’t like him.

                    Do you need reading lessons? I didn’t call James indecent/immoral – I said his ideological position was. Of course, holding an immoral ideological position does call into question someone’s character.

                    Capitalism is immoral and James supports capitalism. In fact, he supports the destruction caused by National as they super-powered capitalism.

                    How boring would the world be if everyone was brainwashed and just thought the same way.

                    It’s not really about thinking the same way but accepting the facts as they are rather than trying to spin them to suit an ideological position.

                    • Monty …
                      14 April 2018 at 1:42 pm

                      Thanks veiled personal attack on my intelligence.

                      I can read and calling his ideology immoral and indecent is the same as calling him it.

                      In fact you confirmed it.

                      “Of course, holding an immoral ideological position does call into question someone’s character.”

                      On the flip one could say you authoritarian way that you agree below you have are immoral and indecent to people who like freedom, democracy and choice.

                    • Grey Area …
                      14 April 2018 at 3:46 pm

                      Thanks for doing the heavy lifting DTB.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      15 April 2018 at 12:21 am

                      I can read and calling his ideology immoral and indecent is the same as calling him it.

                      No it’s not. It could be that they’re ignorant and stick with what they’ve been taught through friends/family and culture. Learning something new may allow them to realise that their position is immoral and they change.

                      On the flip one could say you authoritarian way that you agree below you have are immoral and indecent to people who like freedom, democracy and choice.

                      I don’t have an authoritarian way. I do have authoritarian tendencies but I know about them and so don’t do it.

                      That would be you, and JohnSelway below, twisting my words.

                      Are you sure don’t need those reading lessons?

                    • Monty …
                      15 April 2018 at 12:43 am

                      Pity you are unable to learn and you admitted you had those authoritative tendencies.

                      You have authoritarian ways and you use them with your blind ideology and refusal to accept you made a mistake you are not able to even consider others opinion if it differs from you.

                      If we look to history we find like Hitler, Stalin who’s blind ideology and authoritarian lead to great harm and how many people did they kill.

                      No twisting of your words your just incable of believeing your wrong.

                  • reason …
                    14 April 2018 at 9:48 pm

                    James is the pits …

                    Tax havens are the biggest drivers of corruption, poverty and inequality in the world.

                    The biggest drivers of this sort of easily prevented sickness … http://100photos.time.com/photos/kevin-carter-starving-child-vulture

                    David Cameron, John Key and other sick crooks …. supported, participated in and helped spread this disease …. James is their number 1 fan.

                    You can not reconcile being nice with that …. and he’s well past the defense of ignorance

                • JohnSelway …
                  14 April 2018 at 1:11 pm

                  For someone who goes on about authoritarians you have a few tendencies to it yourself

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    14 April 2018 at 1:24 pm

                    Yep, I do.

                    Still, that has nothing to do with what I said.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      14 April 2018 at 1:34 pm

                      I’m glad we agree – next you complain about how Right Wingers are authoritarian I’ll make sure to remind you of your own tendency

              • AB …
                14 April 2018 at 4:54 pm

                You therefore think it’s possible for decent people to believe indecent things.
                I accept that it’s possible, but I’m not sure it’s common.

          • Monty 1.1.2.1.2
            14 April 2018 at 1:04 pm

            JohnSelway I agree with you. Maui I completely disagree with you playing the man and not the story. I don’t like Jame’s politics but respect he has an opinion.

          • Grey Area 1.1.2.1.3
            14 April 2018 at 5:59 pm

            I think Ed’s heart is in the right place. James not so much.

        • James 1.1.2.2
          14 April 2018 at 9:24 am

          Easy to tell us apart – I don’t wear a tin foil hat.

          Other that that – I think it safe to say we look at matters somewhat differently.

          • Grey Area 1.1.2.2.1
            14 April 2018 at 6:10 pm

            Easy to tell us apart – I don’t wear a tin foil hat.

            No, you’re the one at the BBQ eating home-killed animal flesh.

            • James 1.1.2.2.1.1
              14 April 2018 at 6:27 pm

              Yeah – so?

              • Grey Area …
                14 April 2018 at 7:11 pm

                You can’t see the relevance of the comment. Therein lies the problem.

                • Monty …
                  14 April 2018 at 7:13 pm

                  I can’t see relevance. Perhaps you could expand on what your saying.

                  • Grey Area …
                    14 April 2018 at 7:24 pm

                    You usually ride to James’s defence. However the challenge was to work it out was to him not you.

                    • Monty …
                      14 April 2018 at 7:30 pm

                      I don’t ride to his defence I challenge when I see things based on personality. Vetuviper put it really well earlier on open mike.

                      You seem very narrowed minded to read what I commentate as defending James. I have said many times I don’t like his politics but I respect people have opinion and you should play the ball not the person.

                    • Grey Area …
                      14 April 2018 at 8:57 pm

                      I respect the right of people to have their own opinion like you do but I question people like James who seem to come here to hinder discussion for what is described as “shit and giggles”, and others whose purpose seems to be to divert and hinder rather than enhance debate .

                    • Stunned mullet …
                      14 April 2018 at 8:59 pm

                      Huzzah the sock puppets are back in town.

        • Brigid 1.1.2.3
          14 April 2018 at 10:49 am

          And so you try to stoke it…

      • James 1.1.3
        14 April 2018 at 9:21 am

        I posted it because it was in the news and interesting.

        Seriously- does anyone believe that the UK were behind the chemical attacks ?

        • One Two 1.1.3.1
          14 April 2018 at 9:55 am

          I believe you are a national party supporting 48 year old man that lives in coatesville who enjoys posting agitating comments on a left leaning blog site…..

          But similar to the alleged chemical attack in Syria…..it could all be a charade….

        • Muttonbird 1.1.3.2
          14 April 2018 at 11:51 am

          That’s not what the article said. Russia has claimed the UK were involved in the faking of the chemical attack.

          Why try to shift the goalposts?

        • Stuart Munro 1.1.3.3
          14 April 2018 at 12:53 pm

          I’d be happy to consider evidence of it – haven’t seen any though. Speculation doesn’t cut it.

        • Grey Area 1.1.3.4
          14 April 2018 at 4:04 pm

          I posted it because it was in the news and interesting.

          But then you immediately framed the interesting news in your inimitable way:

          Who would be crazy enough to believe that ?

          And later:

          Seriously- does anyone believe that the UK were behind the chemical attacks ?

          Hardly conducive to a healthy challenging exchange of ideas is it?

          Do we know for sure who was responsible? No.

          Do I think the UK were involved in some way? Not likely.

          Is it possible? Yes.

          Please open your brain up if you are going to continue to comment here.

        • reason 1.1.3.5
          14 April 2018 at 10:07 pm

          I have as much evidence, or more, that it was Zionists …. who are presently fighting Russia in Syria …. as you have it was Putin … James

          We have both Motive and escalating violence from the racist thug nation Israel https://electronicintifada.net/content/rejoicing-ethnic-cleansing/20621

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

          • james 1.1.3.5.1
            14 April 2018 at 10:40 pm

            Thats nice – do you have as much evidence, or more than the UK, French or US governments?

            Are you really that important and informed?

            Yeah, I thought not.

            • reason 1.1.3.5.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 7:09 am

              Is that your sham dunk James ,,, You put up as ‘evidence’ … words from the three participants fighting Russia in their war / attempted overthrow of the Syrian government? …

              The same three incidentally who together …. attacked and destroyed Libya as a modern society / state ,,,,based on a pack of lies …

              Who Invaded under false pretenses ,,,,,, and 16 years later are still there murdering innocent Afghan people … based on a pack of lies ….

              Who illegally attacked and invaded Iraq …. based on a pack of lies

              I would say wipe your dribble off your chin James … but it’s not your own dribble … mad war dog mays been drooling on you ,,, and you’ve been licking it up.

              Just because you respect dishonesty …. don’t expect others to lap it up ……….

              And finally …. as you think Israel being a murderous little thug nation is ‘nice’ …. here’s some nice quotes from them

              “Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg unequivocally declared:

              “Any trial based on the assumption that Jews and goyim are equal is a total travesty of justice.”[10]

              “In our neighborhood,” said Benjamin Netanyahu, “we need to protect ourselves from wild beasts.” If an Israeli soldier is convicted of manslaughter, says Netanyahu, he should be released immediately. Long before Netanyahu came on the political scene, Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir compared the Palestinians to “grasshoppers.”[11]

              Former IDF Chief of Staff Raphael Eitan declared way back in the 1980s:

              “We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel….Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.”

              Rabbi Yaacov Perrin: “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”[12]

              MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan himself declared that Palestinians “are beasts, they are not human.” MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan added: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.”

              Nice James?

      • Monty 1.1.4
        14 April 2018 at 1:00 pm

        So what you saying Tracey. Is when someone you don’t like post something it’s a Flame war but when Ed posts his repeated, relentless and pointless posts then expects people watch them and gets nasty when people don’t agree is not starting flame wars.

      • veutoviper 1.1.5
        14 April 2018 at 3:11 pm

        Tracey, I totally agree with the comments made by John Selway and Monty below.

        Most days since Ed returned from his recent ban, the first comment(s)in Open Mike have been Ed raising the exact same issue or similar but not a peep from you – or others – about them. Only today when someone else finally gets in first, and it happens to be James, do we get:

        What sort of person would post that question at [Xam on a ….ay] just to provoke a flame war?

        Well here you are, how do these stack up against your question? And these are just in the last week:

        1 on OM Friday 13/4/2018 Ed at 6.18am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-04-2018/#comment-1473627

        OM Thursday 12/4/2018 – no Ed first, a welcome relief.

        1 on Wednesday 11/4/2018 Ed at 6.08am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11-04-2018/#comment-1472902

        1 on Tuesday 10/4/2018 Ed at 6.07am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-04-2018/#comment-1472338

        1 on Monday 9/4/2018 Ed at 7.22am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-04-2018/#comment-1471840

        1 on Sunday 8/4/2018 Ed at 6.39am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08-04-2018/#comment-1471444

        1 on Saturday 7/4/2018 Jenny at 6.57am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07-04-2018/#comment-1470991 (Not Syria And no Ed …)

        1 on Friday 6/4/2018 Ed at 6.13am https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06-04-2018/#comment-1470634

        1 on Thursday 5/4/2018 Ed at 6.3 3am ttps://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-04-2018/#comment-1470254

        And Daily Review has not been much better some days recently.

        Re James, yes he is a self-identifying National voter who likes stirring, but I have yet to see him use some of the vitriol and personal abuse that comes from some others here.

        And just in case anyone here decides to call me a ‘right wing tool’ or similar for defending someone who is not a leftie (as I have been called several times in the last few days over on the “We did not know it would be this bad” post), as I said there, personal abuse and name calling denigrates the person doing it far more than it does the person it is aimed at.

        And no, as was suggested to me there, I am not just going to scroll past when I see such abuse being applied to someone else. To me that is the equivalent of pretending you haven’t seen a stranger being attacked and beaten up in the street, or a neighbour in their own home, and doing nothing to help them, no matter who they are.

    • Jenny 1.2
      14 April 2018 at 8:12 am

      ‘

      Or, who would be crazy enough to believe that the rebels are gassing themselves to make the Assad regime look bad?

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-04-2018/#comment-1472338

      • Stuart Munro 1.2.1
        14 April 2018 at 9:45 am

        Yup – it’s like a line from The Man With The Deadly Lens.

      • Jenny 1.2.2
        14 April 2018 at 9:56 am

        Roughly translated this protest song is called:

        “We want to be free”

        “Even if you don’t agree”

        Note the Free Syrian flags and the Palestinian flag flying together.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUgA4_00MKY

        According to some conspiracy theories, these protesters are all foreign agents in the pay of the CIA and Saudi Arabia, If you can believe that when both the US and Saudi are allies of Israel and enemies of the Palestinian people.

        • One Two 1.2.2.1
          14 April 2018 at 10:08 am

          Jenny ,

          You should focus on the areas which are more aligned to your simplistic way of thinking….

          Israel/Palestine is ‘simple’ enough to evaluate who is carrying out the atrocities there….

          Syria has too many levels of complexity for you, it would seem….

          And your comments are an affront to the situation in Syria….

          • JohnSelway 1.2.2.1.1
            14 April 2018 at 10:20 am

            Yep – the Syria situation is a far more complicated beast than Israel/Palestine

          • Stuart Munro 1.2.2.1.2
            14 April 2018 at 12:40 pm

            Well clearly it’s too complex for you – Jenny’s been there, she has a real idea of the complexity – certainly doesn’t need lessons from the likes of you.

            • One Two 1.2.2.1.2.1
              15 April 2018 at 1:56 am

              That’s you trying to convince yourself, Stu…Again..

              Both Jenny and yourself have taken sides in an untenable situation…

              You’re still pushing the Salisbury falsehoods arounds…despite the the total capitulation of the ‘official natrative’….

              Given that you believe in the story which has been used as precursor to yet another illegal war waged by the imperialists…you have the souls of more dead innocents on your conscience….you can’t hide…no matter how hard you try…

              The Syrian situation is complex…on that we can agree…the difference between me…and people who take sides such as yourself and Jenny…

              I’m aware enough to not feed energy into a complex situation…by choosing a side…

              The both you take the position of choosing a side…

              Take a look.in the mirror…and take look at who/what side you’re on…

              I’ll help you….it’s not those you think it is…

          • Jenny 1.2.2.1.3
            14 April 2018 at 3:11 pm

            Jenny ,

            You should focus on the areas which are more aligned to your simplistic way of thinking….

            Israel/Palestine is ‘simple’ enough to evaluate who is carrying out the atrocities there….

            Syria has too many levels of complexity for you, it would seem….

            And your comments are an affront to the situation in Syria….

            One Two

            Occam’s Razor

            From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Occam’s razor (also Ockham’s razor or Ocham’s razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae “law of parsimony”) is the problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian.

            In science, Occam’s razor is used as an heuristic guide in the development of theoretical models, rather than as a rigorous arbiter between candidate models.[1][2] In the scientific method, Occam’s razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result; the preference for simplicity in the scientific method is based on the falsifiability criterion. For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives. Since one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypotheses to prevent them from being falsified, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable.

            But I don’t have to rely on Occam’s razor, to dismiss complicated conspiracy theories (with too many levels of complexity beyond my simple mind). because I have actually been to Syria and seen this horrendous regime close up.

            https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18122016/#comment-1277374

            https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18122016/#comment-1277081

            https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18122016/#comment-1277137

            • One Two 1.2.2.1.3.1
              14 April 2018 at 4:11 pm

              All you have achieved, Jenny, is to emphatically illustrate that you should not be commentating openly about Syria…leaving aside your stated prejudice based on experiences with some Syrians…..

              Occams Razor is inline with simplistic levels of thinking and shallow, if any analysis on a now 7 years long…well documented foreign interference within Syria….Not withstanding the annexed Golan Heights….under the control of Israeli forces…. I presume you are not aware of Golan Heights….

              As per another response I have made to you…..

              Hang your head….you’ve now gotten the war machine response that your comments have been baying for….

              Edit: I’ve no doubt your heart is ‘in the right place’…..The energy you’re feeding into the Syrian discussion…..is not…..

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                14 April 2018 at 4:37 pm

                You should hang your head in shame for denigrating Jenny without offering any other line of enquiry or point of discussion. Disgusting sexism to just dismiss Jenny’s statements as simplistic, despite her obvious first hand experience and interest.

                What first hand experience do you have if the issue? second hand sourcing from the internet isn’t helping you

                • McFlock …
                  14 April 2018 at 5:36 pm

                  1-2 is a funny creature that simultaneously knows nothing and everything.

                  Basically, a cosmic waste of space.

                • One Two …
                  15 April 2018 at 1:35 am

                  Once you’ve gone back through recent weeks and months worth of Jennys comments regarding Syria, feel free to come back and start up this conversation….I’ll engage with you once you’ve done that….with a caveat…

                  disgusting sexism

                  The above would require an explanation…I’ll be open to hearing what exactly it was that triggered you…

                  Once we’ve worked through that…we can unpack your assessments of the weeks and months of Jennys Syria comments…and how they’re juxtaposed against what can only be described as mainstream sources…

                  Inevitably, we will discuss the problems with taking sides and how positive intentions can create negative energy…

                  Until then….balls in your court…

        • Brigid 1.2.2.2
          14 April 2018 at 10:54 am

          Jenny, I could say, without a doubt, there is no Syrian living in Syria, having had their country damn near destroyed by your dear FSA et al, appreciates your ignorance.

          How are the people in Aleppo managing now the government has rid the city of your murderous friends Jenny?

      • One Two 1.2.3
        14 April 2018 at 10:00 am

        Jenny,

        * Are there only one type of ‘rebel’ are far as you are concerned ?

        * Do you believe that paid mercenaries and or ‘rebels’ could perform such an act…assuming said act actually look place at all….

        Perhaps the paid mercs and rebels have contracts stating which type of atrocity they will not engaged in…

        So the question about crazy enough…..is as ignorant as it is asinine…..

        • Jenny 1.2.3.1
          14 April 2018 at 12:27 pm

          To One Two I would ask, as I do for all Assad regime apologists and authors on this site:

          Who did this?

          And is it not evidence of genocide?

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/feb/04/drone-footage-homs-syria-utter-devastation-video

          So One Two will you, just like every other regime supporter at this site that I have posed this question to, also refuse to answer it?

          • One Two 1.2.3.1.1
            14 April 2018 at 2:48 pm

            Jenny, you’ve asked if I will ignore questions from you, while you’ve not responded to my questions…or questions from others…

            Why do you keep doing that?…

            Why do you continue to ignore my statements that I am NOT a ‘regime supporter’…

            More innocent people right this moment are dying and being injured and their nation torched…USA UK FRANCE…all who have supported, funded and armed ‘moderate rebels’…

            Why do you continue to avoid that aspect of Syria….why Jenny…

            Hang your head Jenny…this is what your comments have been begging for…

            • Jenny 1.2.3.1.1.1
              14 April 2018 at 10:05 pm

              Jenny, you’ve asked if I will ignore questions from you, while you’ve not responded to my questions…or questions from others…

              One Two

              My apologies, I am sorry I did not respond to your questions immediately, as I was busy. However to extrapolate that to, I do not respond to “questions from others”, is false. I have always tried to answer questions put to me by commenters and/or authors on this site. If I have missed any please point them out to me.

              I will answer your questions, in return I would expect the same level of respect from you; and answer the single simple question that I put to you, O.T. and which is the same question that I have been putting to other regime apologists at this site for some months now, and which to date is a question every single one of you has avoided. And which of course you too will also refuse to answer.

              Who did this?

              And is it not evidence of genocide?

              https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/feb/04/drone-footage-homs-syria-utter-devastation-video

              Now to the questions you have raised;

              O.T. Question: * Are there only one type of ‘rebel’ are far as you are concerned ?

              J. Answer: No, obviously there are several, but in my opinion the main and biggest opposition to the regime came from, and still does come from Syrian civil society, despite all the massacres and atrocities committed by the regime and its foreign allies.

              I have addressed this question, more fully HERE

              I also generally agree with this timeline and explanation expounded HERE

              If you have any questions springing from these links, I would be happy to expand on them with my own personal comments and observations based on my own experience and knowledge.

              O.T. Question: * Do you believe that paid mercenaries and or ‘rebels’ could perform such an act…assuming said act actually look place at all….

              J. Answer: Presuming of course that they exist. The regime has long claimed that they are being victimised by paid professionals, the regime has even claimed to have captured some. Unfortunately the regime were never able to present these captured individuals to world’s media as evidence of this plot, or even release the names and nationalities or identities of these alleged captives. Also the small group men and women the so called foreign spies captured by the regime in Aleppo after the fall of the city to the regime, were nothing of sort, and again nothing was heard ever again about these individuals. As I said at the time, in a city of over 4 million people, there is sure to be some foreign nationals living there.

              https://thestandard.org.nz/question-4/

              Maybe One Two if you have any evidence of murderous foreign mercenaries prepared to murder civilians with gas in rebel held territory to make the regime look bad, you should present it.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.3
      14 April 2018 at 1:05 pm

      The UK has done False Flag operations before so I certainly wouldn’t put it past them.

      In fact, pretty much every single major has done so in the not so distant past.

      • McFlock 1.3.1
        14 April 2018 at 5:46 pm

        True, but it’s also a theory put forward by the same people who said the Skripals had food poisoning and that a Ukrainian aircraft shot down MH17.

        So I can’t really fault the bombing on the grounds that Assad’s innocent at this stage.

  2. Pat 2
    14 April 2018 at 7:37 am

    “From the study of past climate, we know changes in the Amoc have been some of the most abrupt and impactful events in the history of climate,” said Prof Stefan Rahmstorf, at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany and one of the world’s leading oceanographers, who led some of the new research. During the last Ice Age, winter temperatures changed by up to 10C within three years in some places.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/13/avoid-at-all-costs-gulf-streams-record-weakening-prompts-warnings-global-warming

    How much adaptation and mitigation do you think would occur in 3 years…..or adaptive evolution for that matter?

  3. tracey 3
    14 April 2018 at 7:50 am

    The authors of The Valley take the Govt to task for missing the point in their Afganistan inquiry.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/103031208/stuff-circuit-missing-the-target–the-government-inquiry-into-afghanistan-raid

    Like GCSB, the SAS operate in a field of lies and secrecy. Simply taking at face value what they want to tell us is clearly not enough to ensure accountability and conduct becoming…

    • Chuck 3.1
      14 April 2018 at 12:50 pm

      “Like GCSB, the SAS operate in a field of lies and secrecy.”

      Tracey the GCSB and SAS operate in a field of dealing with the most unsavory type of person/organisation.

      Do you expect the SAS to be an open book on their operations? I am sure a lot of very bad people will thank you for the intel.

      • Grey Area 3.1.1
        14 April 2018 at 1:18 pm

        A degree of secrecy would be expected but are you okay with the lies?

        • Chuck 3.1.1.1
          14 April 2018 at 2:27 pm

          With secrecy comes a lot of “grey void” and people can fill that void with different narratives.

          The inquiry into the Afghan raid will no doubt disappoint, as key evidence will be withheld from the public view. Especially if the inquiry concludes the “hit and run book” to be misleading.

      • savenz 3.1.2
        14 April 2018 at 1:38 pm

        GCSB has been repeatedly shown to be doing illegal things. SAS are probably involved in operation Burnham that just killed kids and civilians and SIS were surveilling Keith Locke since he was a boy and he probably doesn’t even have a parking ticket to his name!

        You have to wonder that they justify all their addition funding taking from other government departments when there is little threat and they are actually using their powers to harm the country and people on political crusades, not help them!

      • reason 3.1.3
        14 April 2018 at 10:15 pm

        Chuck ‘Tracey the GCSB and SAS operate in a field of dealing with the most unsavory type of person/organisation.’ …. to which I’d say they no longer report to John Key.

        Or did you mean their targets like Nicky Hager , wiki leaks etc ?

    • Monty 3.2
      14 April 2018 at 2:34 pm

      The authors of the book know that if the inquiry decision comes out and their book and allegations are found to be incorrect their reputations will be smashed.

      So yes they will do everything they can to get a the inquiry weighted to their side.

      As I said the other day, will people accept the inquiry findings. I suspect unless it comes out in the way they want they call it a farce and accuse the govt of cover ups. At least we are getting an inquiry and we should what till the findings come out.

      • In Vino 3.2.1
        14 April 2018 at 4:02 pm

        No, their reputations will not be smashed until they get prosecuted and found guilty of deliberate lying. That will not happen, as you probably well know. What will suffer damage is public confidence in our inquiries which get hamstrung before they even start.

        • Chuck 3.2.1.1
          14 April 2018 at 4:35 pm

          I think you are stirring a little by saying “found guilty of deliberate lying.” As you point out it will never happen.

          It will, however, hit them in the pocket for any future book releases. Not to mention reputational damage.

          The public has little interest in this inquiry, most understand the hostile conditions the soldiers were facing.

          • Incognito 3.2.1.1.1
            14 April 2018 at 5:35 pm

            The public has little interest in this inquiry, most understand the hostile conditions the soldiers were facing.

            Indeed, we all know that the people are more interested in snapper quota.

            https://thestandard.org.nz/gcsb-bill-vs-snapper-quota/

            The Government, the Justice system, the Police, etc., should all conduct their affairs based on popularity and public interest or lack thereof. Truth and justice are entirely subjective and relative, of course, and must therefore be decided by popular vote only (with a 5% threshold). I mean, why spend good taxpayers’’ money if the majority (44.4%) doesn’t give a rat’s bottom?

            • In Vino 3.2.1.1.1.1
              14 April 2018 at 7:15 pm

              Well proposed, Incognito. No happy ending for all those rats with bottoms…

              • In Vino …
                14 April 2018 at 7:42 pm

                Oh, and by the way for Chuck, who is so concerned about the poor darling soldiers and the hostile conditions they were facing.
                It wasn’t the soldiers who got killed, Chuck. It was innocent civilians.
                But no worries, eh?

                • Chuck …
                  14 April 2018 at 7:57 pm

                  Any civilian killed in any conflict is one too many.

                  Its clear from you tone In Vino you do not hold our soldiers and armed forces in good regard.

                  But no worries eh?

          • reason 3.2.1.1.2
            14 April 2018 at 10:19 pm

            The Chuck has little interest in this inquiry, he understand the hostile conditions the soldiers were facing.

            who cares sais chuck … gotta move on
            https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58bcc6ac893fc04255abbbcc/t/58cfb45a37c5819ccd2bfd50/1490014002150/?format=750w

  4. OnceWasTim 4
    14 April 2018 at 8:26 am

    FYI
    Interesting: the latest Hardtalk with Sackur and outgoing head of UK Sereious Fraud Office …
    banking, finance and corporate behaviour

  5. Tony Veitch (not etc) 5
    14 April 2018 at 8:31 am

    My apologies – but just another little dose of common sense on a Saturday morning!

    (Unlike James, I’m not interested in starting a flame war!)

    I have no idea who Dr. Chris Busby is, but he seems pretty convincing about the nerve gas that affected the Skripals not being able to be traced to Russia.

    Just over 10 minutes long.

  7. greywarshark 7
    14 April 2018 at 11:47 am

    This sounds like an interesting book that DTB will have an opinion about.

    The clean money revolution : reinventing power, purpose, and capitalism
    Author:
    Solomon, Joel (Venture capitalist)

    Publisher’s Weekly Review

    This inspiring memoir from Solomon, chairman of Renewal Funds, a venture capital firm that aims to spark positive social and environmental change, includes a how-to-manual for investing in “clean money” and sustainable initiatives. The book charts Solomon’s trajectory: his early years as the son of a shopping mall developer in Tennessee, his formative years in politics, his career as a Nashville businessman, and his present efforts to transform money and business into forces for regenerating the world.

    Solomon has his eye on the estimated $40 trillion in wealth that millennial investors are expected to inherit in the next 20 years, which he sees as a unique opportunity for progress. Interviews with prominent clean money leaders support and add credibility to Solomon’s strategies for change.

    The topics are well organized and build persuasively upon the examples of well-managed funds and business leaders supporting meaningful ecological and social initiatives. This is recommended reading for current and future investors looking to align their investments with their values and contribute to a more just global economy. (May) © Copyright PWxyz, LLC. All rights reserved.

    radionz interview
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018640646/joel-solomon-the-clean-money-revolution

    Joel Solomon chairs Renewal Funds, Canada’s largest mission venture capital firm, at $98m assets under management, almost all in the organic foods and distribution, green tech and independent media space. Early in his career Solomon served as National Youth Coordinator in Jimmy Carter’s 1976 Presidential campaign, but entered the world of business when he inherited $50,000 in 1983 and invested it into an organic yogurt, eventually selling it to dairy giant Danone for an estimated $180 million.

    Joel Solomon is a member of numerous boards and taskforces and has recently written The Clean Money Revolution: Reinventing Power, Purpose, and Capitalism. He’s been in New Zealand to speak at the New Frontiers event in Upper Hutt, an event devised and run by cashed-up Silicon Valley millionaire brothers Matthew and Brian Monahan.
    New Frontiers
    https://www.newfrontiers.nz/

    google – New Frontiers April 2018 is a 3-day event that brings together creative entrepreneurial leaders from New Zealand and around the world, to share, explore and co-create integrated solutions to the world’s most pressing problems. Each participant bring their passions, skills and expertise to help shape our experience together …
    ‎About · ‎Programme · ‎Join Us

    It was 8-10 April at: Where – We’ll be gathering in Aotearoa, in the edgy Trentham Racecourse Complex in Upper Hutt,

    ($100 a day was not off the planet.)
    google – Apply Feb2017 — New Frontiers
    https://www.newfrontiers.nz/apply/
    If your application is accepted, the ticket price for New Frontiers is $500/full event or $100/day for day visitors. We gratefully welcome your donations above and beyond this ticket cost, to help us sustain New Frontiers. We also have several scholarship options available for those with limited financial means. Please select …

    But looking at their website it seems to be a warm and fuzzy event to boost endorphins?, appealing to those who want to progress their particular interest within the present paradigm with lots of warmth and togetherness.

    Seems devoted to BAU with some tweaking to soften life for those allowed to have one so they can forget about the wars raging in the background except for token protests, and overlook the cost of present culture to other humans who are displaced by ‘the System’. Concern for others and charity or aid is carefully chosen to be distant from the aggravating people within the close sphere so commonly needy and fractious.

    Some points to think on. This quote from writer John Galsworthy in the Listener9/12/2017 is good because it can be swung to refer to closely observed details, or a distant prospect.
    “Idealism increases in direct proportion to one’s distance from the problem.”
    And is followed by an apt one from philosopher Bertrand Russell::
    “Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.”

  8. Muttonbird 8
    14 April 2018 at 12:08 pm

    Taranaki born and bred Jo Moir is getting poetically nostalgic for:

    the darkest of nights being constantly lit up by the flames at Maui burning off gas.

    Must have been like a little night light for her. Trouble is it was a gas powered night light!

    It’s yet another article of its type, this time acknowledging the Oil and Gas industry’s days are numbered – they have to be one way or another – but complaining bitterly about how the message was delivered. However as JA alluded to, in stark contrast to past Labour government reforms, this government has given Taranaki 30 years notice!

    Which leads me to the comment, in the form of analogy, which was the most insulting, ignorant, and entitled bit of the whole whinge:

    (Taranaki find themselves) in a situation not too dissimilar to being told we’re moving you out of your house but we don’t have another one for you to move into.

    This is the very situation which families in private rentals all over New Zealand find themselves in every single day.

    At least Taranaki got 30 years notice, Jo. An ever increasing number of young Kiwi families get 90 days, if they are lucky…

    • joe90 8.1
      14 April 2018 at 12:25 pm

      Folk with skin in the game say they’re backing the transition to a carbon neutral Aotearoa.

      South Taranaki iwi Ngāti Ruanui have commended the government on its decision to stop block offers for offshore oil and gas exploration, despite holding more oil and mineral exploration permits than any other iwi. If only the government were better prepared for the transition, writes Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.

      Our iwi understands that there needs to be a starting point for a brave new carbon neutral world. In fact, this was not really a surprise; we predicted this was likely to be the government’s first move in this area.

      The big question now is what does this transition look like over the next five, 10, and 20 to 30 years?

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/14-04-2018/no-oil-permits-no-problem-just-give-us-time-to-prepare/

    • mauī 8.2
      14 April 2018 at 12:46 pm

      “I see fields of green,
      slowly being churned,
      by black, brown, and white,
      brown running streams,
      and I think to myself,
      what a wonderful world.

      I see a sea view,
      natural blue,
      towers in the sea too,
      and I think to myself,
      what a wonderful world.”

  9. joe90 9
    14 April 2018 at 12:19 pm

    About that trip to Prague.

    NEW: Sources tell us that Mueller has evidence Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of the dossier https://t.co/Gvu7mLrsFs— McClatchyDC (@McClatchyDC) April 13, 2018

    The Justice Department special counsel has evidence that Donald Trump’s personal lawyer and confidant, Michael Cohen, secretly made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

    Confirmation of the trip would lend credence to a retired British spy’s report that Cohen strategized there with a powerful Kremlin figure about Russian meddling in the U.S. election.

    It would also be one of the most significant developments thus far in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of whether the Trump campaign and the Kremlin worked together to help Trump win the White House. Undercutting Trump’s repeated pronouncements that “there is no evidence of collusion,” it also could ratchet up the stakes if the president tries, as he has intimated he might for months, to order Mueller’s firing.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article208870264.html

  10. Pat 10
    14 April 2018 at 12:52 pm

    The Coalition and the public will have to very discerning and sceptical about much of the professional advice they receive…..as this (somewhat surprising) article by Rod Oram of Newsroom would indicate.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/03/03/93650/rod-oram-a-radical-reinvention-of-our-economy#

    McKinsey’s history does not demonstrate any element of public good or service ,,,google ‘delay,deny,defend’ and judge whether this is an organisation that will help deliver an equitable transition from fossil fuels

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinsey_%26_Company

    http://www.delaydenydefend.com/excerpt/

  11. joe90 11
    14 April 2018 at 1:03 pm

    It’s on. Precision strikes, apparently.

    /

  12. Ad 12
    14 April 2018 at 4:41 pm

    Outstanding work Women’s Black Sticks.
    4-1 against Australia and gold.
    Top work.

  13. Muttonbird 13
    14 April 2018 at 5:13 pm

    New Zealand “accepts” strikes.

    Wait for the rabid right to explode in a frothy rage at language like that. It will be as if Ardern herself went over to Syria and personally gassed kids.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103109334/new-zealand-accepts-reasoning-behind-usled-strike-on-syria

    • Muttonbird 13.1
      14 April 2018 at 7:43 pm

      Ah, didn’t have to wait long.

      Farrar has gone full troppo and made a special post comparing Putin’s Russia with Hitler’s Nazi Germany, Syria with the concentration camps, and Ardern with Chamberlain I presume.

      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/04/ardern_statement_on_holocaust.html

      I suspect he might get into a bit of trouble for this post.

      • James 13.1.1
        14 April 2018 at 8:05 pm

        So full troppo mode to you is putting his own heading on it and then simply quoting Jacindas statement in full with a link back?

        Geesh.

        • Muttonbird 13.1.1.1
          14 April 2018 at 8:13 pm

          He changed a lot more than the heading. You might want to read it.

          • James 13.1.1.1.1
            14 April 2018 at 8:36 pm

            I didn’t read it to the bottom and had assumed that it was as linked fully (as it appeared at the start)

            I stand corrected and apologise.

            My post was completely wrong.

      • Rosemary McDonald 13.1.2
        14 April 2018 at 8:48 pm

        Hilarious how the other Ferals had to explain the ‘joke’ to DG.

        Farrar should avoid trying to be clever…he is so shit at it.

    • JohnSelway 13.2
      14 April 2018 at 8:38 pm

      I’m confused by A) the point Farrah is trying to make and B) what’s wrong with it.

      A little help for my wine addled brain?

  14. joe90 14
    14 April 2018 at 8:39 pm

    I guess people have forgotten all about the Assad clan’s neoliberal economic programme and how Syrians first took to the street to protest about declining living standards.

    When Hafez’ son Bashar took over upon the former’s death in 2000, he accelerated the neoliberal reforms his father had started. A process of market liberalization was initiated in the 2000s as part of Syria’s transition to a social market economy, and the private sector, which represented 52 per cent of GDP in 2000, had risen to 61 percent by 2007.

    While the rise of foreign investment “drove a boom in trade, banking, housing, construction, and tourism in the latter years of the decade,” the agricultural share of GDP declined from 7.8 per cent to 2.2 per cent between 2005 and 2010. This meant that not only were most Syrians repressed politically, but more and more were suffering economically as well. According to a UNDP report, poverty increased from 30.1% of Syria’s population living below the ‘upper’ poverty line in 2004 to 33.6% in 2007. This meant that almost 7 million Syrians were considered poor, including 56% of those living in the countryside.

    Social indicators show us that despite the increase in GDP per capita at purchasing-power parity (PPP), this growth was not redistributed among the population but instead brought an increase of poverty, unemployment, and social inequalities. The growing poverty, especially among the rural working class, was exacerbated by the cancellation of state subsidies after 2005, which had particularly negative effects in north-eastern Syria during the severe drought between 2006 and 2010. According to a Syrian Centre for Policy Research (SCPR) report in 2009, the northern and eastern regions had the highest poverty rates in the country.

    https://www.aljumhuriya.net/en/content/socio-economic-roots-syria%E2%80%99s-uprising

    • Stuart Munro 14.1
      14 April 2018 at 10:50 pm

      I got a fairly full run down on them from a Jordanian colleague in Saudi. God knows the Jordanian leadership are crap he said, but Syria is worse – and they don’t have much oil revenue to paper over the cracks. Saudi is full of folk looking for better opportunities – they have to have pretty open immigration policy because of the Haj.

  15. Ffloyd 15
    15 April 2018 at 10:18 am

    Is this the ‘day of James?

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