Open Mike 14/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 14th, 2017 - 232 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

232 comments on “Open Mike 14/09/2017 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Union city greens 1
    13 September 2017 at 7:34 pm

    Me, offended? Not at all, and clearly not as peed off as you are by the millions of hard, working class folk. Ah Mc’Cain, you’ve done it again. lol

    Just remember that slogan politics is the intellectual equivalent of paint by numbers.
    And to read below, despite all your bellicose angst you’re not even voting to change the nat government, well, colour me proved correct, Mr Chips.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [I don’t want to have to waste my time reading through this to moderate, so here’s a warning for both other you. 1. don’t do this personal shit on authored posts, if you really have to get into a beef, take it to Open Mike. 2. read the Policy about pointless personal attacks, tone, and flamewars, and pull your heads on. You both have the ability to make political arguments, so please head back that way weka]

    • adam 1.1
      14 September 2017 at 12:36 am

      “Not at all, and clearly not as peed off as you are by the millions of hard, working class folk.”

      Liar

      • Union city greens 1.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 7:46 am

        Blowhard.

        • adam 1.1.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 9:57 am

          So no retraction for your lies, but a double-down.

          Classy

          • Union city greens 1.1.1.1.1
            14 September 2017 at 10:04 am

            That’s it, mate, steer the issue of you shouting the odds about the government even though you won’t be voting, and away from you insulting people by calling them middle class because they will vote for labour and/or the greens.

            You’ve been outed as a blow hard, which is ironic, as lefties who won’t vote the nats out, despite whining on and on about the unfairness of it all, despite having the democratic option to do so, just totally suck. You blow and suck at the same time. lol.

            Come back when you’ve stopped stomping your feet and holding your breath, and are ready to do your bit in real life to improve the lives and conditions of the poorest in our society and the hard out working classes.
            Until then, wank on, web warrior.

          • adam 1.1.1.1.2
            14 September 2017 at 11:00 am

            You lie so often Union city greens, ever thought of a job for national?

            It would seem that what you are good at, lies, and assumptions.

            What do you do to help? Do you do anything? Beyond the election, anything?

          • Union city greens 1.1.1.1.3
            14 September 2017 at 11:16 am

            “You lie so often Union city greens, ever thought of a job for national?
            It would seem that what you are good at, lies, and assumptions.
            What do you do to help? Do you do anything? Beyond the election, anything?”

            I’m not even going to bother asking you to cite my lies, even though I know there are none, even though it could lead to you getting warned for it. All I will say is there are no lies coming from me.

            Let me explain it clearly for you.

            It was stated from another poster you don’t intend to vote. You didn’t deny it. True.

            You not voting to change the government directly affects the lives of poorest amongst us in the most negative of ways. True.

            You make insults by calling people middle class. True.

            The middle class and top earners who will vote to change the government for the benefit of those less fortunate are doing more to improve the well being of children in poverty and the homeless by casting their votes for labour and/or the greens than you are. True.

            You don’t have a leg to stand on. True.

            As a hard working, poor, working class man, instead of castigating the people you are, like Lprent, who I (rightly or wrongly) perceive as being middle class, who in his early vote thread did his part for the left, I thank them for voting with their social conscience. True.

            You’re all fur coat and no knickers. All mouth and no trousers. The worst kind of lefty. True.

          • adam 1.1.1.1.4
            14 September 2017 at 12:14 pm

            If lefty is you mate, then I’m glad I’m no lefty like you.

            As for your lies, well I pointed one out, here another.

            “insulting people by calling them middle class because they will vote for labour and/or the greens.” that is a lie. I attacked the sanctimonious and condescension of a middle class labour party hack who lied again.

            You took my comments personally, and for some reason keep adding the greens, which is quite frankly odd. No wait, add it to your lies.

            I’m not your type of lefty, and thank God for that. I don’t think I could live with that much self denial and smug wankery.

          • Union city greens 1.1.1.1.5
            14 September 2017 at 12:23 pm

            You’re all over the place, except in the polling booth, voting out this national government… Where any lefty should be.

            Angry Adam, for the working class, poor and vulnerable of NZ.
            I can put up with you lying about me, but If you don’t vote labour and/or the greens, you’re an even bigger wanker than you appear.

            Let’s do this, Chips.

          • adam 1.1.1.1.6
            14 September 2017 at 4:47 pm

            Is it comforting being such a libtard?

            I see why/how the right came up with the term after talking with you.

  2. Tony Veitch (not etc) 2
    14 September 2017 at 6:29 am

    It’s been over 36 hours since the TV3 poll, fronted by a 12 year old, with the ‘unbelievable’ results and I’ve run the gambit of emotions – from despair to anger and many stations in between.

    First, as Martyn Bradbury says on TDB – if 47% of NZers think like National, what does that say of us as a nation?

    Second, the left trend was positive for weeks, so how come such a dramatic reversal?

    So . . . my conclusion – we’ve been conned – that poll was DIRTY POLITICS 2.0.

    I don’t know how they did it, but I just ‘know’ they did! I can feel it in my bones!

    And that makes me very angry – such a blatant, cynical and malicious manipulation of our political process!

    Electorate vote Labour, party vote Greens!

    • Ed 2.1
      14 September 2017 at 6:36 am

      Yes, the owners of this country don’t want the status quo changed.

      George Carlin nails it.

    • chris73 2.2
      14 September 2017 at 7:33 am

      Or maybe the honeymoon period is over and people would actually like to know what taxes are coming before they vote for a party

      • Incognito 2.2.1
        14 September 2017 at 7:37 am

        Some people would actually like to know next week’s Lotto numbers too.

        • chris73 2.2.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 7:40 am

          I suspect its easier for Labour (given they’ve had 9 years in opposition) to come up with some ideas on taxes and be able to present those ideas then it is for Lotto to give out the winning numbers

          • Crashcart 2.2.1.1.1
            14 September 2017 at 8:03 am

            Strange I remember National promising not to raise GST in 2008 and then running a tax working group that resulted in them raising GST.

            You are trying to make something out of nothing. The media are more than happy to jump on the band wagon. Labour are going to get the help of experts to come up with a good plan. Holy shit what a radical idea. Next you will be moaning that they listen to engineers before they decide what Bridges they can and can’t build up north.

          • alwyn 2.2.1.1.2
            14 September 2017 at 2:50 pm

            I admire your optimism.
            The way the Labour Party are going I think picking the winning Lotto numbers is much more likely to happen than getting an agreed policy out of that rabble.
            At least when National were defeated in 1999 they settled down and got organised by about Christmas, 2003. It took them about 4 years.
            Labour has spent 9 years and are no better off than they were when everything collapsed for them in 2008.
            It feels as the Labour Party are the cast of Groundhog Day.

            • In Vino 2.2.1.1.2.1
              14 September 2017 at 6:38 pm

              And how is your optimism after the Colmar-Brunton poll on TV1 tonight, Alwyn ? No doubt you will find it less credible, but I suggest that the TV3 poll was indeed utter junk. It bucked the trend, which is now obvious.

        • Gabby 2.2.1.2
          14 September 2017 at 1:07 pm

          Are you advocating taxation by lottery?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.2
        14 September 2017 at 9:02 am

        Or maybe attaching significance to individual polls is stupid and useless.

      • millsy 2.2.3
        14 September 2017 at 9:30 am

        What about what services National are going to cut?

        Or what they are going to privatise or contract out? Bill English is on record is being anti public ownership.

        Will council be forced to privatise water reticulation?

        What is going to happen to the country’s state housing stock?

      • Psycho Milt 2.2.4
        14 September 2017 at 9:56 am

        Or maybe the honeymoon period is over and people would actually like to know what taxes are coming before they vote for a party

        They didn’t in 2008 but they do now? Why would that be? Surely it can’t be because they’re being bullshitted by right-wing propagandists, because that would never happen, right?

    • Antoine 2.3
      14 September 2017 at 7:42 am

      > So . . . my conclusion – we’ve been conned – that poll was DIRTY POLITICS 2.0.
      > I don’t know how they did it, but I just ‘know’ they did! I can feel it in my bones!

      Have to say dude, you sound a bit delusional

      > Electorate vote Labour, party vote Greens!

      OK

      A.

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 2.3.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:44 am

        Not so very delusional at all. In fact, easily done:

        A high ranking National minister with a fiscal hole rings the boss of the company he once owned, quietly suggesting the next poll should favour the ruling party. No trace or paper trail.

        Te boss of the company once owned by the fiscal hole suggests some new methodology to the polling company – such as asking negative questions about Labour and the Greens, and only polling blue electorates. Again, no real evidence.

        Get a 12 year old FW to breathlessly announce the findings – and it’s done!
        Easy as!

        Gullible people, seeing the Greens below 5%, switch their party votes to Labour – and the desired outcome is achieved.

    • weka 2.4
      14 September 2017 at 9:04 am

      The poll is unlikely to be accurate. We had a couple of posts about it,

      https://thestandard.org.nz/kia-kaha-lefties-its-one-poll/

      https://thestandard.org.nz/the-bullshit/

      • james 2.4.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:12 am

        Will be interesting to see the results of the one news poll this evening.

        It will be interesting if also indicates National up / Labour down result.

        Would that make this poll potentially accurate then?

        • weka 2.4.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 9:19 am

          I don’t think any individual polls are that useful (try reading the linked posts) and that we should be looking at trends and analysis of those by people who have some skills in that.

          I also think it’s dangerous that we have a MSM intent on influencing voting, esp given advance voting. I’ve also said in the past that the value of individual polls is how they might help campaigning. So of course the left is going to down play bad ones and up play good ones, but it’s still bullshit. I’m all for changing that system, in the meantime we need good analysis of the whole situation.

        • Robert Guyton 2.4.1.2
          14 September 2017 at 9:42 pm

          Well, James?
          Bit of a bugger, really, I suppose, for you. And yours.

    • james 2.5
      14 September 2017 at 9:10 am

      dont like the result – must be rigged.

      Thats a sound, well reasoned argument you have there Tony. Dosnt sound crazy at all.

    • cleangreen 2.6
      14 September 2017 at 9:43 am

      Tony Veitch,

      This was a gigged poll, – it was done by Steven Joyce as he has immense control over all media as he is a share holder or board director of mediaworks. TV3 ilk.

      So this was his deliberate retaliation to being ‘stomped all over with his $11 billion dollar hole allegation made against Labour that was his silly fuck up, and he needed to get that monkey off his back.

      This was his way of diverting the glare off his fuck up.

      Can he control the next two polls coming up? We shall see.

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 2.6.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:51 am

        cleangreen – agree – see post above.

        • cleangreen 2.6.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 1:31 pm

          Tony Veitch (not etc)

          Yes I enjoyed that and i am so astonished most can’t see the forest for the trees!!

          Hope all our efforts wake them up to vote the right way after nine yrs of slash and burn, our grand kids will have no future if we dont rid these carpertbaggers from our shores now.

      • mary_a 2.6.2
        14 September 2017 at 2:43 pm

        Hi cleangreen @ (1.6) you state …

        “This was a gigged poll, – it was done by Steven Joyce as he has immense control over all media as he is a share holder or board director of mediaworks. TV3 ilk.”

        I did suspect this, because the result of the TV Reid poll didn’t seems to be in sync with recent polling trends which glaringly stood out, but wasn’t quite sure if Joyce still had interests other than contacts in Mediaworks.

        So the likelihood of Joyce using his powerful media business influence to manipulate the TV3 Reid poll, in a dirty attempt to maintain his rotten political empire, is a possibility? If this is the case, resorting to gutter tactics influencing a poll result favourable to one particular political party, goes right down to National’s dark, corrupt core! Just proves then that Joyce is indeed a master of the dark art of political manipulation and should be nowhere near government!

      • alwyn 2.6.3
        14 September 2017 at 2:57 pm

        Have you ever considered writing a sequel to the Harry Potter books?
        Your imagination would certainly be up to it, given what you manage to claim about Stephen Joyce.
        He sold out completely and left the company Radioworks, which he had founded, when it was bought by Canwest in 2001. That is 16 years during which he has had nothing to do with the business.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Joyce

        • gsays 2.6.3.1
          14 September 2017 at 3:23 pm

          Are you saying he had nothing to do with the ‘loan’ made to the company, by the state, to pay for their license fees?

          • alwyn 2.6.3.1.1
            14 September 2017 at 3:36 pm

            You really shouldn’t believe everything you read on the Standard you know.
            The payment for broadcasting licences was changed so that the licence for the whole period, 21 years if I remember, had to be paid in one go, at the beginning, rather than on an annual basis.
            Rather like if you rented a house for a 21 year term and had to pay the entire rental amount, for the whole time, before you could move in.
            They were given the option of paying it in chunks, with a very high interest rate of over 10% being levied on the unpaid balance.
            ALL licence holders could do this I don’t remember how many took it up.

            It wasn’t anything like what various ignorant idiots may have told you and you shouldn’t really believe everything you are told.

            ps I can’t guarantee the 21 years or the 10%. If you really feel you want to know the truth you can easily find it.
            I’ll bet you don’t though.

            • In Vino 2.6.3.1.1.1
              14 September 2017 at 6:43 pm

              The first thing I decline to believe on the Standard is trolling rubbish from Right Wingers like Alwyn. With the benefit of the hindsight Alwyn has probably gained if he watched TV1 News this evening, Alwyn may regret some of the bumph he has contributed today.

              • alwyn …
                14 September 2017 at 8:22 pm

                The connection between your comment and the one you are replying to is not apparent.
                Do you reply to comments or does my name work on you like a red rag to a bull?

            • gsays 2.6.3.1.1.2
              15 September 2017 at 12:15 am

              You are right alwyn, about not believing everything on TS.

  3. Ed 3
    14 September 2017 at 6:31 am

    Your daily propaganda from Fonterra….

    As Martyn Bradbury Stewart says

    ‘The Dairy propaganda adverts on TV are hilarious. So terrified are Fonterra that the rest of the country is getting sick to death of them stealing and polluting our water, they are desperately pumping these farcical adverts out to try and distract Kiwis from the wholesale abuse of their industry.

    Richie McCaw wanders around a Farm in the early morning and marvels at the pristine goodness of these human beings as if Jesus himself had personally popped down to the milking shed to milk a herd before feeding 5000 with a block of cheese.

    Indeed the most recent advert actually goes as incredibly far as suggesting milk is some kind of miracle drug that can help paralysed teenagers walk again.

    You have to see it to believe it…’

    • Ed 3.1
      14 September 2017 at 6:33 am

      As Rachel Stewart writes.

      ‘So, what happens if you do question farmers on any environmental issue? Take water quality. Simple. It’s a rapid result – and a predictable one. You are labelled “anti-farming”. That’s it. Black and white. A slam dunk. End of discussion.

      And that’s the point, of course. Nothing shuts down dialogue faster than a label. Except it doesn’t work on me – given my farming background, and it no longer really flies with your average non-farming New Zealander either.

      For nine years we’ve all watched the waterways go rapidly downhill, and the rhetoric from industry push the proverbial uphill, and our patience has run out. The public have reached peak bulls*** detection and are well and truly over farmers’ “beyond criticism” status. Now, they’re also about to decide farmers’ future through this quaint mechanism called democracy.

      That future looks like a bit of a correction. They will be forced, under a new government, to pay for a fraction of their pollution via a water royalty, and pay for a contribution to their massive carbon footprint via the Emissions Trading Scheme. Oh, lord. Give them strength.
      Instead of hearing what the public wants – that is, clean water, fewer cows, no more dairy conversions, and an end to irrigation schemes – they choose to put their energy into flailing and fighting the inevitable. Stuffed full of false promises from their industry leaders, and their National buddies, they thrash about like dying fish at the bottom of a polluted, dried-out riverbed. It’s ugly to watch.

      The interminable Fonterra adverts, DairyNZ taking Greenpeace to the Advertising Standards Authority (and losing) over their TV ad, cockies drinking from streams as if that proves anything other than low IQ, Federated Farmers blaming trout and Canada geese for water pollution. The list is long and has only served to harden the heart of even the kindest, most patient voter.

      Watch closely for the next phase of the campaign. You will see National delivering a full-on offensive designed to fire up the farming base, and get the electorate to feel deep sympathy for the farmers’ plight……’

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11921404&ref=twitter

      • tc 3.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 6:51 am

        Yes time these historical rent seekers coughed up, scaled back and served NZ wider interests. Non dairy farmers aren’t that enamoured with them either.

        Instead of their sacred dairy cow broken model which passed the point of diminishing returns decades ago at the expense of our environment.

        Fonterra are the worst run organisation in NZ, there’s a better future for dairy farmers without this top heavy bloated crony empire, much better. Look at the returns better run aggregators generate like Tatua etc.

    • Psycho Milt 3.2
      14 September 2017 at 10:01 am

      Well, I watched it. Not surprising that they’d tell this story – the contents of milk get used for all kinds of things other than filling milk bottles, which some people may not be aware of. Do you dispute the story in some way?

    • Matiri 3.3
      14 September 2017 at 11:39 am

      This Fonterra ad is just so wrong. The opposite is true, dairy consumption is actually a contributing factor to disabling diseases such as Multiple Sclerosis and Parkinsons.

      • Psycho Milt 3.3.2
        14 September 2017 at 1:46 pm

        You seem to misunderstand the words “true” and “actually.” Lactose tolerance was one of the fastest-spreading adaptations known to those studying human evolution, exactly because of dairy food’s advantages.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2.1
          14 September 2017 at 2:07 pm

          There was an article a few weeks ago showing that milk intolerance may be greater than previously thought. It’s not just lactose intolerance either.

          For the first time, scientists have shown that dairy intolerance is a physiological condition distinct from lactose intolerance, and not “all in people’s heads”.

          “Lots of people suspect that they have some intolerance to dairy foods, but testing shows they aren’t lactose intolerant,” says Dr Amber Milan, a research fellow at the Liggins Institute, University of Auckland, New Zealand. “Before this study, there had not been any detailed analysis of dairy intolerance to see if something else could be causing it.

          “Our findings show dairy intolerance is a ‘real thing’ with a particular symptom profile – not something that’s just in people’s heads. That means sufferers and doctors can better identify it. Now, we need to find out more about what’s going on and how to measure it better.”

          Still need a citation on her accusations that milk causes disabling diseases though.

  5. Ed 5
    14 September 2017 at 6:52 am

    Better than the Herald, I guess, which leads with the All Blacks selection.

  6. Tracey 6
    14 September 2017 at 6:56 am

    Joyce knew what he was doing. It was cynical and targetted.

    He knows many peoples no.1 concern is the economy .

    He also knows tgat in 2014 and 2015 National while governing left exactly such a small amount of wiggle room and the sky didnt fall. But that bit is left out. Economy is all English has.

  7. Tony Veitch (not etc) 7
    14 September 2017 at 7:12 am

    Further to the Dr. Yang saga – a close friend who is from China – but is not Chinese, told me it is very difficult, if not impossible for police officers and high ranking military to get passports and/or permission to leave the country.

    Which begs the question – how did Dr. Yang get out? With official connivance?

    • Once was Tim 7.1
      14 September 2017 at 12:21 pm

      Money – how do you think!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      14 September 2017 at 1:16 pm

      With official connivance?

      Looks that way. They specifically told him not to list the military places he taught at but to use ‘partnership universities’ instead:

      A National MP who taught English to Chinese spies didn’t declare the names of the military institutions where that happened to New Zealand authorities.

      Jian Yang told the Herald he didn’t name the Air Force Engineering University or Luoyang People’s Liberation Army University of Foreign Languages when making the applications that led to New Zealand citizenship, which he was granted in 2004.

      He instead gave the names of two Chinese universities for civilians that had “partnership” status with the military institutions where he taught intelligence agency cadets as an English lecturer.

      Asked if he made a false declaration on his citizenship application, Yang said giving the name of “partnership” universities instead of the institutes he actually worked and studied at was not a false declaration and was required if he was to leave China.

      “It is not a false declaration. When I left China I was asked by the system to use my partnership universities. That is why I used those universities in applying for jobs, even [at] the University of Auckland.

      But it’s not, you know, lying despite it not being true.

    • Gabby 7.3
      14 September 2017 at 1:18 pm

      I’m struggling with an English language teacher getting a decent pol sci dept position. Must have other strings to his bow.

    • mary_a 7.4
      14 September 2017 at 3:02 pm

      Tony Veitch (not etc) @ (6) … yes there needs to be some serious questioning re Jian Yang’s position, both in China and here.

      An allegation of a possible foreign infiltration of our government, by a Chinese agent serving as a National MP and it seems this issue has all but disappeared altogether from msm! Almost shut down completely!

      However should it have involved Labour or the Greens … media would have been all over this one like a pack of blood thirsty baying hounds! Look at what msm did to Metiria Turei in comparison!

  8. Eco maori 8
    14 September 2017 at 7:23 am

    I can see my children in the same role as I am now in 25 years being grandparents and when one becomes a grandparent that is a paradigm shift because you are wiser and more observant. You worry about there future and the world future and take more notice on what’s going on in our WORLD.
    So in my view on reality we live for ever in our children I see parts of me in my grandchildren.

    So we cannot keep shitting on there future we have to plan and mitigate for climate change so our grandchildren will have a future.
    Not just live for the now one can not eat or drink money when a disaster strikes and again it’s is a when not a if .So I say let’s part with some money so our grandchildren can have a future so our WORLD can have a future.
    I say that the Western WORLD have obligation to help our third world cousin mitigate against climate change.
    Again spend now to save billions in the future billions of lives WE ARE ONE RACE THE HUMAN RACE AND WE CAN BE A BEAUTIFUL CAREING RACE we need to act now so our grandchildren have a future.
    To MSM we are fighting the neo liberals not you people Kai pai

  9. Robert Guyton 9
    14 September 2017 at 7:32 am

    Dave Kennedy’s written a very good piece on “who to vote for and why” – it’d make a fine post here on TS 🙂

    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2017/09/what-vote-will-deliver-change-we-need.html

    • weka 9.1
      14 September 2017 at 9:09 am

      If you can get permission from Dave to cross post it here, I will put it up 🙂

      • Robert Guyton 9.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 10:28 am

        Hi, weka. Just spoke with Dave (long discussion, lots to talk about 🙂 and he says he’s more than happy for you to put his article up here. He also told me that the southern greens have an election night celebration planned at the craft brewery in Invercargill – looking forward to that! Metiria’s coming down soon, to speak at a “poverty” debate – it’ll be great to catch up with her.

  10. Pete 10
    14 September 2017 at 7:42 am

    I heard Paul Buchanan overnight talking about Jian Yang. He said things you’d expect.

    You plant operatives who fit in. They get involved in life wherever and (my words), become part of the wallpaper.

    What could be more part of the wallpaper than the life Dr Yang has? I’m not saying there is anything untoward about Dr Yang. I’ve heard him say there’s nothing untoward. He’s in a situation a bit like in the Monty Python movie, the , “I am not Jesus Christ” scene. What did we expect to hear from him?

    That’s how the espionage world works. That’s how suspicion works. More furtive and sinister though, is that’s how politics and NZ elections work. And you can bet a $100,000 bottle of wine from an Asian gentleman on that.

    • Carolyn_nth 10.1
      14 September 2017 at 7:51 am

      Yes, impossible to know exactly what to make of this situation.

      This article in the financial Times provides some more circumstantial evidence.

      It’s focused on the way the Chinese government operates in contrast to “the best” of liberal democracies. But, of course, 5 Eyes ain’t all that transparent and innocent. The article begins with:

      Openness, diversity and tolerance are the greatest strengths of the world’s liberal democracies. But to autocratic regimes like China, these same attributes are vulnerabilities ripe for exploitation.

      And ends with:

      But liberal open democracies are more fragile than most people believe, and without the courage to face up to the potential threat posed by illiberal countries and their subversion efforts, we are all contributing to the erosion of what makes these systems so great.

      • cleangreen 10.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:57 am

        Thats why several of our trading artners including China, and Autralia have rules on who is allowed to sit in Government.

    • The decrypter 10.2
      14 September 2017 at 8:22 am

      The plot thickens, I see in the Herald that Todd Barclay is leaving for work in England. So look at things like this, Dr Yang trains toddy up in the Dipton office in the art of spying. Todd spies and is caught out by office girl, Bill jacks him up a job in London–MI5 or similar, and tells office girl todd is going to England.–via text. The deep south hides its sins, have we a contact among correspondents keeping an eagle eye open, up dates welcome.

  11. Ed 11
    14 September 2017 at 7:49 am

    i despise the highly paid members of the media like Guyon Espiner who make it their job to pimp for the Tories and turn a democratic election into a Showground attraction.

    Words fail me.
    We need a better and more democratic media.
    I have again switched RNZ off.

    • cleangreen 11.1
      14 September 2017 at 10:04 am

      100% Ed Guyon Espiner apears to be a national party plant now as Suzie Ferguson is and Kath Ryan all inside RNZ!! RNZ now is controlled by Steven Joyce as his propaganda spin machine.

      This is corruption using our public funded RNZ now.

      Vote them out now.

    • Once was Tim 11.2
      14 September 2017 at 12:29 pm

      Hate to say it, but we actually have no fuckn idea which side of the political spectrum Guyon and Suzie lay/lie. You could actually be very! surprised.
      The most you can accuse them of is being in a comfy little bubble with the ability to sympathise, but not empathise with those beneath.

      But then again …. I just heard a RNZ sports reporter use the word “learnings”

      • cleangreen 11.2.1
        14 September 2017 at 1:38 pm

        yes Tim,

        They all are regularly ‘briefed’ as I saw working for a large Corporation, (Bell) as they called it ‘indoctrination’ over Canada way then.

        So the word ‘learnings’ is a similar term I guess.

        I would call it ‘Joyce’s brainwashing’ he controls it all from his propaganda nerve centre ‘bunker’ – MBIE.

  12. Ben 12
    14 September 2017 at 7:50 am

    Breaking News on The Herald, replete with flashing red banner :

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11921804

    How can a politically charged opinion piece be breaking news?

    • Bearded Git 12.1
      14 September 2017 at 8:11 am

      +100 Ben….the Herald rolls out the ex-ACT leader neo-liberal dinosaur to slag Labour off and this is news?

      Meanwhile Guyon Espiner just destroyed Winston on Morning Report. Why anybody would vote NZF after that I don’t know.

      It has been noticeable recently that Winston has lost some of his sharpness; he tried to cover this by telling Espiner continuously that he didn’t know what he was doing as an interviewer.

      Party Vote Green. Hayley was good on Backbenches last night. Willie Jackson was good too and will be an asset to parliament-we need characters with humour that have their hearts in the right place.

      • garibaldi 12.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:45 am

        BG. I thought Guyon was a prat this morning with Winston. He let that “gotcha” stupidity override everything and wouldn’t let Winston even take a breath without interrupting. His behaviour is what is wrong and that is not good enough for RNZ.
        Party vote Green.

        • cleangreen 12.1.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 10:11 am

          Yes garibaldi,

          I saw it this way to.

          We laid a complaint over Espiner’s lack of fairness and balance in his ‘presentation’ it was the worst I have even seen of him. he is a disgrace to us all.

          When National’s leader Engish is interveiwed Guyon will be as nice as pie, believe me.

          He wont ask any hard questions of that leader you can bet like wat have you signed us up to in any free trade can you release this to us all now?
          Another question Guyon should have asked english was ‘are you going to sell off ant other public assets or turn them into PPP’s?.

          he will not be alolowed to ask them as he is cached by Joyce what to ask.

          here is my complaint to RNZ today.

          Subject: complaint to RNZ morning report leaders debate 14/9/17 INTERVIWS WITH GUYON ESPINER. 14/9/17. unfair unbalanced interview compared to other leaders interviews
          Importance: High

          Listening to RNZ this morning Morning report 14/9/17 with Guyon Espiner & Suzie Ferguson was such a totally botched sad show of a very low quality coverage of interviewing Winston Peters as the NZ First leader.

          As Espiner did not give a similar space and time for Winston to talk and explain his policies before Espiner chipped in completely destroying the flow of detailed information we as listeners needed to hear.

          We should not be subjected to Guyon’s own views or Suzie’s dismissive responses but we do not have a ‘fair & balanced’ media any more within our flagship public radio platform.

          I hope when Labour/NZ First begin the new media platform we will see an end of these low quality radio presenters and produce informative quality presenters with core values of presenting fair & balanced media presentations.

          Shameful show from Espiner & Ferguson I would remove them both if I could.

      • mary_a 12.1.2
        14 September 2017 at 4:58 pm

        Bearded Git @ (11.1) … Although I’m not a NZF voter, in some respects I feel sorry for Winston, because it seems now his age is beginning to show. He definitely doesn’t seem to be as sharp as he once was, which incidentally wasn’t that long ago. He’s coming across at this election as a fading light.

        I’m of the same generation as Winston and sometimes it takes a little bit of effort to get the old grey matter into gear and responses are not as quick as they used to be, with some of us, because we are beginning to “wear out.” This could be the case with Winston.

        With Winston when he’s finding interviews not going his way and he realises he is not quite on top of his game when faced with a challenging interviewer, to make up for this, in typical Muldoon style, Winston lashes out at the interviewers, which doesn’t do him any favours at all. In fact it makes him look foolish. Besides that, it isn’t a good look for NZF either.

        To be honest, I’m finding his utterances and secrets are becoming tiresome and annoying, because they more often than not amount to nothing.

        In my honest opinion, I think Winston should have bowed out at this election with some dignity and handed the reins over to someone younger in NZF, who is able to keep up with the play, appeal to the younger generation and rejuvenate the party. Or to quote the wonderful Fred Dagg “… kick her (NZF) in the guts Trev.” Because at present, NZF’s image is that of an old person’s political party, which it doesn’t have to be!

        • In Vino 12.1.2.1
          14 September 2017 at 7:07 pm

          Agreed mary-a. I am 71 yrs old, I well remember Muldoon’s decline. This is similar. Not Winston’s fault – I always saw him as Muldoon’s heir, the only one with a similar gift. (Not that I liked either of them.) But now he is fading.
          It happens to all of us – I ought to know….

    • Xanthe 12.2
      14 September 2017 at 8:14 am

      Yes that stinks, no way is that “news” no way should it be headlined , and where is the promoters statement, they really abuseing their “news” outlet status there

    • Patricia Bremner 12.3
      14 September 2017 at 8:21 am

      11 Ben, this is the next attack mode. To belittle her. To frame her as a backstabber

      Jacinda is being shown as stressed and not coping with pressure through slanted reporting,

      Stuff has an article in which they mention a confrontation from a grey power audience heckler regarding the TPPA.

      They failed to mention the sustained standing ovation she received on entering the hall. The love and warmth shown by Jacinda and others during and after the meeting.

      This is deliberate.

      A wounded National is a dangerous beast.

      Kia kaha. Stay strong, vote Red/Green or Green/Red.

      • mac1 12.3.1
        14 September 2017 at 9:27 am

        There is a Nelson Mail report of the Grey Power meeting.

        “An estimated 450 people turned out to hear Jacinda Ardern deliver a speech to Grey Power Nelson on Wednesday as part of the Labour leader’s whistlestop tour of the city.
        Extra seats had to be brought in for the meeting at Annesbrook Church in Stoke, with the crowd by far the biggest of a series of Grey Power meetings with political leaders on the campaign trail in Nelson.

        Last month 260 people turned out for the Prime Minister, National leader Bill English, and 220 for NZ First leader Winston Peters.

        Loud cheers and whooping greeted Ardern as she entered the church.

        Unlike the previous two events, the crowd was not all grey heads.”

        In Blenheim, in 1999, Helen Clark had a similar turnout- a packed church, standing room only, and school boys attending. I don’t recall whoops, though.

      • Cinny 12.3.2
        14 September 2017 at 11:55 am

        It was Grahame O’Brien and he was all over the show yesterday, relentless, police kept an eye on him, he was the one who posted the pro nat poem on all the cars, police were informed it was him.

        It was a real wtf moment, him of all people being anti left, I was like dang, what are you doing dude?

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/81533359/community-activist-graeme-obrien-enters-nelson-mayoral-race

    • mary_a 12.4
      14 September 2017 at 7:01 pm

      Ben @ (12) … Natz in desperate times roll out any decrepit old right wing has been. This time it’s Prebble again. Ho hum … so obvious.

  13. Janice 13
    14 September 2017 at 8:13 am

    Steven Joyce has now got his mates in the Landlords Assn to spread more fear about a Labour Government causing rents to rise by taking away their ability for negative gearing. How long before he resurrects the dancing Cossacks?

    • Pat 13.1
      14 September 2017 at 8:23 am

      Nationals whole campaign is dancing cossacks….they have abandoned any pretence of honesty and are shamelessly appealing directly to fear and greed….it’ll only work if turnout is low.

      • cleangreen 13.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 10:24 am

        Pat,

        Perfectly said – I coulnt have said it better.

      • Graeme 13.1.2
        14 September 2017 at 1:11 pm

        Spot on. It confirms and accentuates all their negative traits. A desperate and high risk strategy.

        • tracey 13.1.2.1
          14 September 2017 at 2:24 pm

          In fairness Ad (Advantage) who supports Labour has similar views, if it gets you power it is ok.

          • Graeme 13.1.2.1.1
            14 September 2017 at 6:31 pm

            It’s very defensive, and defending a long way back in National’s own territory. And some of National’s supporters have a lot to defend, a change of government could put some of them in rather reduced circumstances.

            That change of government could also put a lot more people in much better circumstances. I think tonight’s CB poll bears this out.

            As for dancing cossacks, I’m waiting for dancing pandas, little blue ones, to make an appearance…..

      • tracey 13.1.3
        14 September 2017 at 2:23 pm

        And the smugness with which some of their supporters embrace this behaviour makes me worry for NZ. What kind of kids are we all raising when this behaviour is revered and rewarded… except when poor brown people behave this way… then there is outrage

    • Bearded Git 13.2
      14 September 2017 at 8:27 am

      True Janice….and Susie Ferguson was completely useless as usual on Morning Report, failing to ask WHY rental prices will go up. She simply accepted the statement.

      The question should have been “but Labour is promising to build 100,000 state houses on top of those being built by private enterprise; won’t this cause rents to come down?”

      Bring back Kim Hill.

      • cleangreen 13.2.1
        14 September 2017 at 10:27 am

        BG

        Propagandist Steven Joyce would never allow Kim Hill back until after the election as he has shut down any critics or free speech as he will not allow it while in his attack mode, he must be banished he is a powerful dictator now.

      • Gabby 13.2.2
        14 September 2017 at 1:27 pm

        She did ask fairly pointed questions about the nateure of the ‘survey’, let him foam for a bit, then basically went ‘sure, fine, whatever.’

    • Herodotus 13.3
      14 September 2017 at 1:29 pm

      Is not the $2.3Billion accomodation supplement not enough corporate welfare?
      IMO should a landlord be a net recipient of this, then their property should comply to certain govt standards, and dept of social welfare should have a list of properties that comply and over time move remnants not into these properties. I know easier said than done

  14. Ant 14
    14 September 2017 at 8:24 am

    Prebble’s “Jacinda tidal wave has gone out” is an appallingly selected metaphor.

    A tidal wave (tsunami) that has gone out draws back from the shore so far that where there was water before nothing remains. 37.8 % is hardly nothing, nor is running neck and neck with the PM “nothing”.

    These emotive ‘good sounding’ headlines epitomize the endless layers of calculated spin we are prey to.

    • Pat 14.1
      14 September 2017 at 8:29 am

      lol…what happens when a tidal wave approaches the shore?….the water level drops as the approaching wave draws it to itself just before it inundates the shore in a massive wall of water…..watch out National, you’re busy inspecting the exposed foreshore and are about to be swamped .

    • Tracey 14.2
      14 September 2017 at 8:52 am

      And his article headlines ahead of Heralds prediction of neck and neck.

      Remember Prebble doesnt understand the difference between weather and climate. He thinks if it snows unseasonably there cannot be global warming

      • cleangreen 14.2.1
        14 September 2017 at 10:39 am

        Tracey, Prebble is an idiot remember two years ago he was calling for government to save rail?

        Then National continued flogging off more Kiwirail land and assets till the electric trains are now sold!!!

        So where was prebble then??

        No Prebble is just another tory hollow man.

  15. Reality 15
    14 September 2017 at 8:54 am

    It baffles me how Bill English can call himself ‘Christian’ when he lives his life as anything but in my opinion. His lies over Todd Barclay and support of Steven Joyce’s venomous behaviour are appalling. Dirty politics and National are one and the same.

    As for Prebble slithering out of the slime – I just hope there are enough people who can see him for what he is. How does the Herald get away with this? Likewise Vernon Small in the Dominion Post has an anti Labour article today. Fair enough if there was also an examination of National as well.

    • marty mars 15.1
      14 September 2017 at 9:46 am

      He confesses his sins every Sunday and is good to go again on monday

      • SpaceMonkey 15.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 10:27 am

        Yep… that’s how it works. In my view, Confession is THE greatest invention of the Catholic Church, period.

    • garibaldi 15.2
      14 September 2017 at 9:53 am

      Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
      Very few self claimed Christians actually model their lives on the teachings of JC, right wing Christians being prime examples.

    • cleangreen 15.3
      14 September 2017 at 10:44 am

      Yes as a non church attending christian I am appalled at Bill English acting as bad as our last PM athiest was, as a taker and not a giver.

      The day of reckoning will come to visit these morons.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.4
      14 September 2017 at 1:07 pm

      It baffles me how Bill English can call himself ‘Christian’ when he lives his life as anything but in my opinion.

      It appears to be camouflage to try and hide his sociopathy. After all, many people still apply the false logic of ‘Christian = Good’.

  16. mosa 16
    14 September 2017 at 9:08 am

    Merkel on track for fourth term on September 24th with another grand coalition.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/german-election-polls-odds-tracker-merkel-seeks-fourth-term1/

  17. Pat 17
    14 September 2017 at 9:24 am

    “RNZ has heard a secret recording Danny made of a conversation with his former employer where they talk about the scam.

    His lawyer said they went to Immigration New Zealand (INZ) to lay a complaint and offered the recording as evidence of Danny’s exploitation, but authorities wouldn’t investigate and told them complainants should come forward at the first instance of exploitation.

    The lawyer argued that if that was the case, there would almost never be a case taken. “And another thing I think they said is whether or not he has clean hands. Again, if you have been part of or party to a migrant exploitation situation it’s highly unlikely that one would ever have clean hands.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/339373/migrant-worker-describes-modern-day-slavery-scam

    Nationals corruption has obviously infected our public service….time to clean house before its too late.

    • cleangreen 17.1
      14 September 2017 at 10:45 am

      yes our whole Public service is now compromised and corrupted.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.2
      14 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

      In a statement, Immigration New Zealand said the initial complaint did not meet the threshold for investigation, but it did refer it to the Labour Inspectorate. It said the fact that Danny “admitted being complicit in the original arrangements was relevant to INZ’s initial assessment”.

      I’m pretty sure that the person admitting being complicit in the scam brings it up to a threshold where an investigation is warranted and the police involved. It doesn’t stop it meeting that threshold.

  18. North 18
    14 September 2017 at 9:53 am

    So under the bellicose banner of “Landlords First !” a gang of anti-social greedies threaten havoc. Well bring it on. ‘Master of the Universe’ terrorists puffingly expressing the mantra “Democracy is Mine !” are beneath contempt. When bottom-line fixation comes down to waging class warfare things get very ‘personal’. Expect very ‘personal’ accountability. He Tangata He Tangata He Tangata !

  19. North 19
    14 September 2017 at 10:50 am

    I frequently spend weekend time in South Auckland. The sight of rentiers and their proxies scuttling around the area in their aspirational decade-old BMWs, Merc’s and Audis, aluminium ladders atop, DIY toolkits in the boot…….they absolutely turn my guts. Their obvious fish-out-of-water discomfort, their incapacity to meet eyes, evidences their feasting on the lives of others’ grandchildren as they scheme the enhancement of the lives of their own. As sick making as the Herald with its routine celebration of this “righteous entrepreneurialism” in its Monday morning headlines. Parading yesterday man Mad Dog Prebble is a new low.

    • marty mars 19.1
      14 September 2017 at 11:06 am

      Yep the prebbs trained and unleashed by labour and then turning on his master and biting the shit out of them since then. Where is the spca and why haven’t they done something about this dangerous animal.

  20. rhinocrates 20
    14 September 2017 at 11:03 am

    An article usefully clarifying the term ‘Identity Politics’, reminding us of the original meaning, and why it should be reclaimed as a radical critique, not the straw man for used by white male paleoleftists such as Trotter to suppress the struggles of people who aren’t straight white men with moustaches.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/144739/liberals-get-wrong-identity-politics

    Lilla’s spin on this statement would make identity politics sound like a selfish political theory. But his bad interpretation is not the same as a bad theory. When the collective writes that the “most radical politics come directly out of our own identity,” Lilla reads this as applying to each individual group’s identity when the Combahee River Collective meant “our own” to apply specifically to black women. It is a result of their belief, as they write later in the statement, that, “If Black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” The original intent of identity politics was articulating black women’s struggle at the nexus of race, gender, sexual, and class oppressions, and then forming strategies for dismantling each of these, both in black feminist spaces and in coalition with other groups.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.1
      14 September 2017 at 12:51 pm

      How do you insure universal rights?

      Ask everyone what rights they think they should have. Questions such as:

      1. Should you have the right to marry? Y/N
      2. Should you have the right to do as you wish? Y/N
      3. Should you have the right not to be affected by other peoples actions? Y/N

      etcetera.

      Get the questions right and we’ll end up with a very good BORA – and ACT would be out of options as ‘property rights’ wouldn’t survive.

    • Gabby 20.2
      14 September 2017 at 1:35 pm

      So many abstract nouns. So very very many. Trotsker’s a man of words. Big round comfortable words. Then there’s that crap about paleoleftists whatever the fuck they are.

      • tracey 20.2.1
        14 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

        Didnt Trotter bemoan the demise of Labour only a few short weeks ago

      • rhinocrates 20.2.2
        14 September 2017 at 2:29 pm

        Paleoleftist – someone for whom it is always 1916, still in the Industrial revolution, on the eve of the revolution. Someone who likes big round comfortable words because they’re big, round and comfortable. A white male heterosexual assimilationist who assumes that his own type is the norm and all radical or revolutionary endeavours must support his own needs and all struggles must be subsumed into his own because he cannot comprehend another person’s experience and will not listen. In other words, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

        • gsays 20.2.2.1
          14 September 2017 at 3:31 pm

          With confessions mentioned earlier in the post, 3/4s of what you have listed resonates.
          Apart from comfortable, and I am not a hundy on what assimilationist is.

          Upon rereading, I reckon I am a good listener with plenty of empathy.

    • tracey 20.3
      14 September 2017 at 2:27 pm

      Thanks for posting this.

  21. Penny Bright 21
    14 September 2017 at 11:10 am

    NZ WHISTLE-BLOWER ALERT!

    The TRUTH about the Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION $CAM!

    “Penny Bright has been shining a light into the murky recesses of public/private partnerships in the Tamaki Regeneration scheme and revealed some disturbing details…”

    Authorised by Penny Bright
    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki, 86A School Rd, Kingsland, Auckland 1021.

    https://www.facebook.com/penny.bright.104/posts/1796625243683493

  22. AsleepWhileWalking 22
    14 September 2017 at 11:21 am

    WTF happened to the treaty?

    National will help young farmers buy State Owned farms.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922193

    • The Rock 22.1
      14 September 2017 at 12:22 pm

      He expected about 100 young farmers to benefit from the programme. Not all of Landcorp’s 140 farms will be sold, he said.

      “Many are subject to Treaty claims and others have a right-of-first-refusal for iwi. Some of Landcorp’s larger farms will be divided into smaller units.”

      National said it expected it to take more than a decade to complete the sale and settlement process for the farms. Any revenue generated will be reinvested in public services.

    • marty mars 22.2
      14 September 2017 at 12:26 pm

      Yep the gnats will throw everyone under the bus to get in and they start with the most vulnerable.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.3
      14 September 2017 at 12:43 pm

      Didn’t they promise no more state asset sales?

      • cleangreen 22.3.1
        14 September 2017 at 1:51 pm

        DRACO;

        National = dont tell truth.

        My dearest says;

        National = ‘make’s it up as they go’

  23. Muttonbird 23
    14 September 2017 at 11:22 am

    More asset sales. Run down and strangle Landcorp then sell it to your voting base 9 days out from an election.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96824794/live-on-the-campaign-trail

    • Cinny 23.1
      14 September 2017 at 11:45 am

      So let me get this right, intensive dairying is ruining our environment and running down our number one export (tourism), yet national want more farms? WTF

      • Muttonbird 23.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 11:58 am

        Yep. They are doubling down on the lack of vision. Selling publicly owned land to private individuals while encouraging dairy expansion on unsuitable land thereby exacerbating damage to waterways and the tourism industry.

        • Cinny 23.1.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 12:22 pm

          so currently many farmers pay less tax than the average working person, and they are using tax payer owned land to make their profits from.

          They’ve had subsidies for mass irrigation, which is only needed due to the changing climate, environment as well as the greed of intensive dairy farming.

          And now they are being offered the land which is currently owned by the people of NZ to buy (probably dirt cheap) to continue this practise. Rather than be given the skills/training to diversify and change, after being aware of (due to technology) just how damaging and destructive intensive dairying is to the planet we live on.

          Far out, it’s just unreal. But climate change is real. One would think that having a business that relies on the climate/environment in order to profit, that one would be bending over backwards to protect the environment from which the profit depends.

          How about a bit of free tertiary education for the farmers on the changing environment and diversification.

          My Grandpop was a farmer, he loved animals so much, loved the land and the river from which their water came. Seems like SOME farmers today love the money/profit above everything else. Yup I’m more than a little bit fucked off about the news today.

      • Ffloyd 23.1.2
        14 September 2017 at 10:53 pm

        Did you have any problems with all keys u turns. He turned so fast he left skid marks.

      • Ffloyd 23.1.3
        14 September 2017 at 10:56 pm

        Bill English has many sons. Maybe they want to till the soil.

  24. Cinny 24
    14 September 2017 at 11:48 am

    Debate tonight that will be well worth watching/listening to

    Tonight from 7pm Stuff is hosting a debate between Stephen Joyce and Grant Robertson, the two blokes who want to look after the nation’s bank account.

    • tracey 24.1
      14 September 2017 at 2:30 pm

      Can Robertson please tell Joyce that the PM ran two zero budgets which is what Joyces accusation boils down too. Another thing Mr Joyce doesnt understand about economics and the economy

      • Cinny 24.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 5:04 pm

        Should be a goodie, and would be good if Grant pointed out just why Joyce doesnt understand economics… ie Joyces unfinished/failed economics papers when he went to uni.

        Haven’t seen a link yet Trace for the debate will post as soon as I do 😀

    • james 24.2
      14 September 2017 at 5:28 pm

      Yeah – cannot wait to hear Grant talk about the total u-turn they have had to make so close to the election. So much for the captians call

  25. greywarshark 25
    14 September 2017 at 11:58 am

    Australia watch. What next? They have won us by conquest, any advantages in agreement has been from our wheedling. Time to tighten the screws.

    RadioNZ
    8:40 am today
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201858456/australia-blocks-access-to-tab-betting-accounts

    Australia blocks access to TAB betting accounts
    From Morning Report, 8:40 am today
    Listen duration 4′ :43″

    The TAB’s been caught on the back foot by a surprise Australian law change that means no one in Australia can place bets in New Zealand. John Allen is the chief executive of the Racing Board, which runs the TAB.

    Somehow reminds me of the song ‘Everything’s Up to date in Kansas City – They’ve gone about as far as they can go.’ (We are Kansas City, had our brief moment in time as a first world, brave little country footing it in the machine age out of the agricultural field, now back again, and Oz recognises that they can take potshots at us, no missiles needed.)
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0G2UNv0fM

  26. SpaceMonkey 26
    14 September 2017 at 12:11 pm

    This claim from National that farmers could face a $50,000 cost increase from Labour’s water tax sounds a bit sus to me. On the face of it, it sounds like an awfully big and scary number (it’s purpose), but at a cost @2-3 cents/cubic metre the farmer would have to be drawing off around 3 million cubic metres of water each year to receive a $50,000 water-use charge.

    That’s a massive amount. But in reality, what is the size of an operation like that? What would its turnover be? I’m guessing into the millions. Because $50,000 as a line item to a multi-million dollar business isn’t that much when worked out as a percentage. But I would go further and say that if you’re having to draw off that much water and you really can’t afford to pay for it, you’re operating unsustainably and probably shouldn’t be in business anyway.

  27. marty mars 27
    14 September 2017 at 12:22 pm

    Finally got it together to do an early vote. Took my easyvote card and my 2.5 year old down. Oh no, our early voting starts NEXT week. Wtf – yes lots of people have complained. You could drive 50ks to Motueka to vote if you wanted. TDC – not our fault. Electoral commission oh that seems funny. Marty – you have impinged on my democratic right to vote early and I consider this dirty politics to try and keep the dirty gnats in power. Electoral commission – I’ll certainly note your comments.

    ffs not happy

      • Janice 27.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 5:05 pm

        Our early voting in Hunua doesn’t start until tomorrow. Only got my card yesterday, what is going on?

        • mary_a 27.1.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 8:26 pm

          Janice @ (27.1.1) … an election card isn’t necessary to vote. We still haven’t received our cards yet, but we voted on Tuesday at a place we didn’t know had an election booth available, because it wasn’t advertised as having one!

          Seems to be a lot of inconsistencies related to early voting at this election.

  28. Draco T Bastard 28
    14 September 2017 at 12:29 pm

    Quarter of a million hectares sold into overseas ownership illegally

    Over 250,000 hectares of land have been bought by foreigners without required approval from the Overseas Investment Office since 2011, and the response was a slap with a wet bus ticket by National, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little.

    “Our land is being sold into foreign ownership illegally on a massive scale, and National is doing nothing about it.

    “The OIO had to validate the purchases retrospectively. It imposed fines in 31 cases of land being sold without approval, totalling 257,000 hectares valued at over half a billion dollars. The average fine was $8,500, or less than $1 a hectare. In other cases, no fine was imposed or the buyers were allowed to make a donation to charity to settle the issue.share on twitter

    Can’t think of a better use for the Proceeds of Crime Act. Take the land back into state hands and take the money from those who sold it illegally.

  29. Draco T Bastard 29
    14 September 2017 at 12:41 pm

    And Barclay has skipped out on his well paying job:

    Three months after announcing his decision not to stand again in the Clutha-Southland electorate, Barclay is moving to London.

    He leaves for England on Tuesday, seeking employment opportunities.

    He is still officially an MP on a $160,000-a-year salary, with taxpayer-subsidised travel and car, until the September 23 election.

    Despite, you know, still being paid.

    Pretty sure that constitutes theft as a servant.

    • Cinny 29.1
      14 September 2017 at 1:08 pm

      Barclay doing a runner, I thought the police investigation had not yet wound up.

      And the questions remain, why was Todd taping Glenis, did he ask her to lie for him and the identity of the female cabinet member (at the time) who was also involved. JS

      • Draco T Bastard 29.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 1:29 pm

        Barclay doing a runner, I thought the police investigation had not yet wound up.

        You’d think that with an ongoing police investigation he wouldn’t be able to. You will get stopped if you have any unpaid court fines and this is bad enough that it should stop him leaving.

        It’s probably a loophole that allows him to leave before he gets convicted but if he stays he will be convicted. So he’s leaving to pre-empt the conviction.

      • Robert Guyton 29.1.2
        14 September 2017 at 8:32 pm

        Paula Bennett
        Amy Adams
        Anne Tolley
        Nikki Kaye
        Judith Collins
        Maggie Barry
        Louise Upston
        C’mon, Cinny! Gizus a clue (tick one) 🙂

    • Antoine 29.2
      14 September 2017 at 1:13 pm

      Well at least he’s leaving!

    • Gabby 29.3
      14 September 2017 at 1:49 pm

      He is from Double Dipton after all.

    • tracey 29.4
      14 September 2017 at 2:33 pm

      Despite Bill saying he would work til election day

    • Ffloyd 29.5
      14 September 2017 at 10:45 pm

      Probably got a nice little cushy number courtesy of john key as long as he keeps his mouth shut. Lots going on there that all New Zealanders want to know about. Probably. Imo.

  30. Poission 30
    14 September 2017 at 1:02 pm

    us nuke sub returns to base flying jolly roger.

    https://twitter.com/IanJKeddie

    • rhinocrates 30.1
      14 September 2017 at 2:42 pm

      The Jimmy Carter is a Seawolf-class submarine specially modified for spying and covert operations. Interesting…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter

      Jimmy Carter is roughly 100 feet (30 m) longer than the other two ships of her class, USS Seawolf (SSN-21) and USS Connecticut (SSN-22). This is due to the insertion of a plug (additional section) known as the Multi-Mission Platform (MMP), which allows launch and recovery of ROVs and Navy SEAL forces. The plug features a fairing over a wasp-waist shaped passageway allowing crew to pass between the fore and aft sections of the hull while providing a space to store ROVs and special equipment that may need to launch and recover from the submarine

  31. greywarshark 31
    14 September 2017 at 1:09 pm

    Hi Robert G
    Problems because of rain with hortis losing a lot of their crop, Kumaras going off in shop soon after arrival instead of keeping for ages.

    What can be done about coping with rainy seasons in your opinion? Furrows as they used to use in West Coast? Lifting the beds higher and allowing for streams alongside?

    • Robert Guyton 31.1
      14 September 2017 at 2:59 pm

      Warm enough where you are, grey, for rice? 🙂
      Watercress, raupo, willow-strawberries? (no such thing as “willow-strawberries” though they’d do well in the wet, I imagine. I grow Himalayan tree-strawberries, but they don’t like wet feet). Increasingly rainy conditions are going to be very challenging in some regions as the climate slips and slides about the place. I guess we have to look to monsoon areas and see how they do it. Biodynamics does have one answer: preparation 501, a silica application that strengthens the plants and helps them resist rot. It works well, but you have to subscribe to the Steiner thinking before you’d start applying that.

  32. Ad 32
    14 September 2017 at 1:42 pm

    At Wanaka library.

    Voting is very busy.

    Hope Labour’s tax u-turn isn’t too late.

  33. Pete 33
    14 September 2017 at 1:45 pm

    Anything on Paula today/

    • Pat 33.1
      14 September 2017 at 1:47 pm

      think she’s still locked in the cupboard

    • Robert Guyton 33.2
      14 September 2017 at 2:53 pm

      A heavy mantle of guilt?

    • mary_a 33.3
      14 September 2017 at 8:37 pm

      Pete @ (33) … At present I’m in Frau Paula’s constituency (temporarily thank goodness) and come to think of it, I haven’t seen hair nor hide of her, not anywhere. However, I do have a pitchfork on hand, should she or her minions come door knocking at the last minute, closer to the election!

  34. billmurray 34
    14 September 2017 at 2:06 pm

    Robert Guyton:
    Most New Zealander’s are sane and considerate people.
    Most would rather slit their throats than vote for the Greens.
    Fact’s are fact’s.
    Please climb down from your tree.

    [that’s not a fact, it’s a belief. Stop trolling and have a think about how to be here without being an arse – weka]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Robert Guyton 34.1
      14 September 2017 at 2:40 pm

      billmurray – what contradictory, lunatic nonsense you write!
      Let me explain where you’ve fallen into your own heap of thought-dung:
      You write,
      “Most New Zealander’s are sane and considerate people.”
      Then, perversely, your contradict your claim,
      “Most would rather slit their throats…”
      Have you flipped out, Billmurray?
      You claim is ridiculous in the extreme.
      Did you expect to be taken seriously, flailing about with idiocy like that?
      Bill! Don’t be a dill!

  35. lprent 35
    14 September 2017 at 2:14 pm

    My god, has anyone else read the post at Greater Auckland on the massively expensive East-West highway?

    http://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2017/09/14/surprising-ally-fight-east-west-link/

    Apart from the obvious bovine humour of the fool from the Infrastructure NZ suggesting that because the project will do nothing obvious for Auckland traffic congestion by 2046, that it is too small and should be made bigger and even more expensive. FFS It is already going to be the most expensive road in NZ and vies on a kilometre basis with the most expensive roads ever built..

    There is also the question about why in the hell are they building this damn thing when it obviously has NO apparent utility?

    Apparently designating it as a road of significance to National mean that the Board of Inquiry disassociated their mind from looking if it is a useful project.

    • tracey 35.1
      14 September 2017 at 2:35 pm

      Another BS policy of the Nats going unscrutinised

    • Ad 35.2
      14 September 2017 at 3:05 pm

      That is damn hilarious.
      Top work again from Matt Lowry.

    • Draco T Bastard 35.3
      14 September 2017 at 3:18 pm

      East-West Link to cost an estimated $327 million per-kilometre, Infrastructure New Zealand says

      A proposed Auckland motorway could rival the most expensive roading project in the world, Infrastructure New Zealand says.

      The group, which represents infrastructure companies such as Kiwirail and Transpower, has calculated Auckland’s proposed 5.5km East-West Link (EWL) would cost an estimated $327 million per-kilometre, equalling the 40km Sochi to Krasnaya Polyana road in Russia.

      Constructed for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi the US$9.4b (NZ$13b) Sochi to Krasnaya Polyana motorway and railway project connected the coastal Winter Games site to alpine sporting venues and was touted as the most expensive road infrastructure project in history.

      So, it’s going to cost lots and lots but the big part is right down the bottom:

      In a June board of enquiry hearing, NZTA economist John Williamson said no cost-benefit analysis was to be conducted by the agency on the EWL.

      “I do not consider that it would be practical, and may not even be possible, to undertake such a task nor do I think it is helpful,” Williamson said.

      Yeah, doing a cost-benefit analysis is not considered to be helpful. Probably because it would show that it’s completely bloody worthless.

    • Karen 35.4
      14 September 2017 at 3:44 pm

      There must be money in it for the National Party or otherwise it makes no sense at all.

      I would be great if this story got some cut through in the MSM because it really highlights the lie that their funding decisions are evidence based.

      Hopefully Stephen Joyce will also be asked if this is true.

      http://www.labour.org.nz/is_national_planning_a_secret_fuel_tax

  36. billmurray 36
    14 September 2017 at 2:41 pm

    Robert Guyton:
    Most New Zealander’s are sound and sensible people.
    Most would rather slit their own throats than vote for the Greens.
    Scramble down from your tree habitat, move around, get a view of the real world.
    I and many other’s wish that the Green’s disappear at the election.
    They are a blight on our Country.
    Hope you take my advice, best wishes for a awful election.

    [2 week ban for trolling. See also other moderation in Open Mike. Up your game or expect a longer ban time. – weka]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  37. alwyn 37
    14 September 2017 at 3:12 pm

    I would guess that New Zealand share market investors have decided that the Green Party aren’t going to make it back into Parliament.
    The Air New Zealand share price has dropped by about 7% in the last week.
    Without their (very) frequent flier Gareth Hughes the companies’ profitability will plummet. How can a list MP based in Wellington possibly spend so much on flying?
    No more taxpayer paid flights for the little bearded one.

    • Blackcap 37.1
      14 September 2017 at 3:46 pm

      That drop has probably got something to do with the fact they have gone ex-dividend. Stocks invariably fall by the amount of the dividend when they go ex, because the dividend is transferred from the company (the company is now worth less) to the shareholder.

      • alwyn 37.1.1
        14 September 2017 at 5:41 pm

        That is quite true of course, although the drop has been about twice the dividend.
        However I find my interpretation much more fun. Yours is so much more sensible but doesn’t have the stardust to it. Mind you I don’t actually invest on that basis.

        • In Vino 37.1.1.1
          14 September 2017 at 7:21 pm

          Once again, Alwyn still has to learn about the Colmar-Brunton poll on TV1 tonight. Silly boy

          • alwyn 37.1.1.1.1
            14 September 2017 at 8:20 pm

            You really can’t read can you?
            You did see that my original comment was at 3.12pm
            The second was at 5.41pm
            Now please tell me. When did you discover the Colmar-Brunton results?
            You really are dumb aren’t you?
            Why I’ll bet you are a Green supporter.

            • In Vino 37.1.1.1.1.1
              14 September 2017 at 9:44 pm

              No, I am pointing out that you are burbling over-confidence because of TV3’s poll. But you are forming the basis of an irony. That comes with the TV1 News. You dug your pit – lie in it.

  38. Pete 38
    14 September 2017 at 4:53 pm

    I see the New Zealand Herald election forecast model says “Predicted candidate vote for Ilam
    Predictions for candidate vote by electorate take into account the trends in previous elections and polling data. These are hardest to predict because of tactical voting.”

    The graph shows Brownlee at about 60%, Rimell at 30% and Lee at 7%. (Each + or -)

    The fact that city councillor Raf Manji isn’t even on there gives context to the guesswork. In spite of that will the information be held up as a source of information? Let alone a ‘reliable’ source?

  39. james 39
    14 September 2017 at 5:30 pm

    So – who thinks that tonights CB poll will show labour in the lead still ?

    anyone?

  40. james 40
    14 September 2017 at 6:02 pm

    Labour / greens could govern alone on these numbers (my worse nightmare … agghhh).

    Should be happier reading for a lot on here.

    • Robert Guyton 40.1
      14 September 2017 at 8:17 pm

      James, you honey, you. Thanks for the good news and the supportive comments.

    • weka 40.2
      14 September 2017 at 8:32 pm

      respect for fronting up.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 40.3
      15 September 2017 at 5:15 am

      my worse nightmare

      I expect that’s founded on a belief that they’d be bad for the country.

      When instead they’re good for the country, and the sky doesn’t fall on your head, have the grace to acknowledge it.

      Or are you more of a “what’s in it for me?” voter (Newsflash, they’ll be good for you too).

      • james 40.3.1
        15 September 2017 at 5:02 pm

        “When instead they’re good for the country, and the sky doesn’t fall on your head, have the grace to acknowledge it.”

        If you were so inclined – (and i’m pretty sure we both are not), you could go back thru my post and see that I have done this on several occasions when wrong.

        More than I can say for a lot of people on here.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 40.3.1.1
          15 September 2017 at 6:25 pm

          I don’t have to go back through your comments because I can remember you doing so. However, where National supporters are concerned, I’m very much in favour of the “that’s for nothing, now do something” approach 😈

  41. eco maori 41
    14 September 2017 at 7:15 pm

    NEO LIBERALISM at its best the Fury camp no that Hughie will lose in a fair fight so they stack the deck in there favor.
    Well Joseph as soon as you see your opening Knock That fucker out that is what you have to do to win this fight.

  42. eco maori 42
    14 September 2017 at 8:57 pm

    Have you seen the Alaskan King crab fishing Its one of my favorite programs .
    I think that scampi fishing was similar to that the place wear we were fishing had a all you can catch quota in 5 days so we worked 4 1/2 days straight no sleep we stop to eat we had to make boxes to pack the scampi wash grade and pack scampi load and unload the blast freezer head and gut fish box it. I lost 8 Kgs in 7 days it was a lot of work.
    The skippers are the same some are screamers ect they have your life in there hands
    so you have to trust them.
    Maf found the scampi fisheries no one new it existed .
    Well one of the MAF Officers went and seen his mate that had a fish shop and they got a boat and sent it out scampi fishing they got a skipper from the Australian prawn fisheries well they ended up cornering the scampi fisheries and owning close to half of the quota worth $100 MIL. I think that stinks a state employee should not be able to gain from the state .
    This the reason why I say we have to be really care full with the policy because water is a valuable resource and some sneaky bastard mite exploit our water at our loss.
    So it is our duty to keep a sharp eye on the process on our water policy and if we see bullshit happening we will let everyone no so it will be stopped .
    We got the Michail fay, scampi fisheries, there will be others .
    I meet a skipper down there we got along awesome I thought I could trust him and work with him.
    but while we were steaming to Bluff we got a call that he got caught in his gear and was gone .

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.