An election campaign can exacerbate that polarisation, one of the report’s authors maintains. Sir Peter Gluckman, president of the International Science Council, says that how election issues are conducted can further divide society.
Not rocket science though. Democracy was established for the purpose of dividing society so how issues are debated is divisive in consequence. To unify everyone, you'd have to create a different governance system.
Labour’s own pollsters Talbot-Mills in its April 27-May 3 testing where 40% believed the country was moving in the right direction, while 52% believed it was travelling in the wrong one.
Why do most feel headed in the wrong direction? Pollsters don't ask such questions. They'd likely get answers like "God's will" or "market forces".
Diagnosing a lack of trust & cohesion is no surprise, but advising everyone to behave themselves seems as much of a solution as whistling in the dark.
Half those 52% probably think where going to left the other half to right.
The 40% will be pragmatists ,optimists and those not paying attention, who think that decline is inevitable due to population growth and things are still not to bad.
One could do so at considerable length. A brief response is best but will challenge my ability to be concise! First, it depends on context. For ancient Greeks, that was the polis (city).
The best form of government of the polis for Plato is the one that leads to the common good. The philosopher king is the best ruler because, as a philosopher, he is acquainted with the Form of the Good. In Plato's analogy of the ship of state, the philosopher king steers the polis, as if it were a ship, in the best direction.
So we inherited governance as wise steering, combined with rulership. The latter element was morphed by democracy from natural group selection into a set of rules.
The British empire codified such time-tested rules into a body of law, which we inherited in the 19th century. It divides everyone into citizens & representatives, assuming the latter to act upon common interests with the former. Unfortunately the system never evolved the capacity to formalise that common-interest basis. Make it up as you go along became the pragmatic option, so reps realised their personal interests could always take precedence. Thus the democracy sham (Labour dude Bryan Gould wrote the book entitled that).
Oh, you mean the particular groups in power in any particular context? The behavioural pattern evident to whoever reads history is that a binary relation rules how that develops, in a generic sense: rulers/ruled.
The typical pattern is established by a conqueror, who then proceeds to delegate power to helpers, who entrench within a particular social ecosystem to form a ruling class (the 19th century framing, known earlier as aristocracy).
This division morphs into plurality via forms of democracy, incorporating merchants, scribes, officials. The originating binary becomes less apparent. Magna Carta being baron-enforced, later forming the basis of parliament. Then reps entered the ruling class to supplement the original division.
Weka might be satisfied with this non-answer but to me you’re just continuing with your flawed reckons. In good faith debate, parties meet somewhere in the middle rather than digging into their entrenched views & positions.
Your views of history and of democracy in particular are simplistic and deterministic. You still ignore/overlook the complexity and diversity of historical processes and contexts, and you still reduce them to a single pattern that ignores the role of agency, contingency, resistance, and change. You wrongly assume that democracy is a recent phenomenon that emerged from ‘a conqueror’ down to ‘the ruling class’, but democracy has a long & varied history that dates back to ancient Greece, as you already have correctly alluded to. I have already argued that it involves different forms of popular participation and self-government. You neglect the influence of other factors & forces that shaped the development of democracy, such as social movements, revolutions, wars, ideologies, cultures, religions, even (modern) technologies, et cetera. Lastly, you imply that democracy is a static & fixed concept. But democracy is a dynamic idea that evolves over time and differently in different geographical locations – the concept of democracy itself has been challenged too.
Yeah, I've written about ancient Greek democracy a few times on TS in the past. I'm interested in the general principles involved, and how they have morphed society & culture in their application thro various contexts.
I own books on ancient Greek democracy & I have read them. Likewise books reviewing the history of democracy. I comment on that basis.
I’ve no doubt that you’ve written about it here in the past and I’ll have to take your word for it.
Undoubtedly, you’re not the only one here with a keen interest in this topic. After all, this is a political blog site has been going strong since 2007.
I’m sure you own many books and have read them all, some probably more than once. They may even be good books, who knows?
The problem with your comments is that you seem to think that we should all take these things as a given, without a link or shred of evidence, and accept your authoritative views without challenge or hesitation!?
Without support for your views they become merely reckons that cannot be reasonably debated here on TS and anyone who makes an attempt at this exercise in futility is guaranteed to waste their time.
Fair enough, but I wasn't trying to come on like some kind of authority figure. I'm aware that detecting patterns in history is subjective.
Re the democracy sham, did you read Bryan Gould's book about it? If so, I'd be interested in your take. He wrote it on the basis of his lengthy experience in Labour politics and his success with that.
He comes from an economics perspective primarily, but he's on about the warping effect neoliberalism has on democracy too. In terms of the gist of my earlier comments, he illuminates the rulers/ruled dichotomy via the influence of transnational corporations.
So his focus is the emergence of those as the primary determinants of the globalising of the market. Back in 2006 corporations were looming as public enemy #1 in the minds of many. Since then we've a trend towards benign corporations (see Senge's The Necessary Revolution, which documents that paradigm shift).
We thought MMP would provide more power to the people but it currently doesn't seem like it did really – or maybe it's just the winter of our discontent…
Your opinion of democracy and your pseudo-factual analysis & explanation are deeply flawed. Left unchallenged on a political blog, it would be highly problematic and a dereliction of duty of any politically-aware person with even only the slightest of historical knowledge and who cares about politics, democracy, and the democratic process.
Democracy doesn’t have a single origin and purpose; it has evolved over time and across different contexts. You completely ignore the wide range of democratic forms and practices, such as direct democracy, representative democracy, deliberative democracy, E-democracy, et cetera. Arguably, TS is an example of E-democracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-democracy). You’re conflating democracy with debate; democracy involves many other aspects such as participation, representation, accountability, transparency, et cetera. You imply that division is always negative and undesirable; perhaps somewhat contentiously, division (but not polarisation!) can also reflect pluralism, diversity and healthy disagreement aka a contest of ideas.
You cherry-pick one case, be it historical or literary-philosophical, and generalise it to all democracies, thereby ignoring the differences between ancient and modern contexts aka presentism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(literary_and_historical_analysis)). You misrepresent the Greek notion of the polis as a unitary and homogeneous entity, i.e., like ‘a ship’, but in reality the polis was composed of multiple groups and factions with conflicting interests and values. You seem to idealise the role of the philosopher king as a benevolent and wise ruler who knows the common good. However, in reality such a ruler could be corrupt, biased or mistaken, as indeed plenty of historical examples have shown. You dismiss the value of popular sovereignty, self-government, and having a say in policy-making & decision-making as essential elements of democracy.
It was the polis page on Wikipedia, sorry. I would have thought the binary divide between govt & opposition was sufficiently well-known as a structural component of democracy to make the point all by itself.
Therefore I didn't mention it. However, if you want it spelt out: democracy divides, by design. Thus the eternal charade of left competing with right…
This week, former intelligence official turned whistleblower David Grusch is alleging the US government has "intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin…" Grusch led the analysis of unexplained anomalous phenomena (UAP) within a US Department of Defense agency during his 14-year career in US intelligence.
"When President Joe Biden wanted his presidential daily briefing, which is the intelligence briefing that's prepared for the President. It was David Grush who was involved in putting it together for the National Reconnaissance Office." His claims have prompted the US House of Representatives to announce an investigation into the allegations, with a hearing on the issue expected to be announced in the next few weeks.
So now its Congress vs the Deep State. More interesting than Trump vs the Deep State? We'll have to wait & see. Declaration of non-conflict of interest: it's true that I tried to give a class talk on UFOs exactly 60 years ago (part-way in, I fainted due to nervousness) but I've never seen a UFO.
More to the point – if Grush is so off-beam when it comes to alien spacecraft – what was the quality of advice he was presenting to Biden? I suspect this is the, entirely political, reason for the Congressional enquiry…
While I would love for alien spacecraft to be true – I find myself entirely unable to believe that the US establishment would have been able to keep this secret for more than 60 years. Other countries, possibly yes – but the US with its …. diversity … of opinion, all of whom have a direct line to media… I don't think so.
Such scepticism is sensible. However, as one who has sporadically examined UFO books for 60 years, I can report that some authors have impressed me. When you get inclusions of eyewitness testimony, legally certified as documentation, it's a level above hearsay. Congress may seek such evidence from officials. Nevertheless, Deep State operatives aren't likely to comply…
Back in the '90s folks were camping out on the Area 51 fence-line, using telephoto lenses, to try & spot nefarious goings-on. I never did hear of them publicising anything notable.
The meanies running the base kept their saucers deep within, I guess. There was a trend claiming that stealth fighters derived from alien tech re-engineering. However I haven't heard of them being capable of the sharp 90 degree turns that the saucers used to irritate the US fighter pilots pursuing them.
Those were cited by the radar operators doing liaison with the fighter pilots as their eyewitness experiences. So you had two different groups in the armed forces validating each other. Understandable that the guys in the hierarchy would take it seriously.
As a physics grad, I know that such evidence of a lack of momentum defies the laws of physics. Rather than believe others though, I choose the pragmatic option of not believing in something I haven't seen personally.
My neighbour on one side & I get on real well. He's a staunch Labour man from way back but we've had political conversations with no discord since I moved back here (NP) 6.5 years ago. However those on the other side are definitely peculiar…
An expert on landslides and natural hazards warns much of New Zealand may become "uninsurable" in the future.
The storm that triggered a massive slip in Lower Hutt last winter and forced the evacuation of three cliff-top properties was a shock to residents – but not the council.
Only the year before, it paid $35,500 (plus GST) to engineering consultancy WSP for an analysis of unstable slopes across the city, including Eastern Hutt Road.
That report – obtained under the Official Information Act – refers to previous studies dating back to 1977.
Well…uninsurable…is coming. And that Council knowing…(since 1977?) IMO pretty much par for Councils throughout NZ. They know stuff..but..for whatever reasons…sit on or otherwise bury/ignore.
All the mass developments….concrete over waterways, drain wetlands, etc; etc; are now coming home.
We can always take the National Party preferred option of simply gobbling up more prime agricultural land and turning it into yuppie housing estates and not worry about unimportant things like transport and storm water.
Hi. Yep everyone..will have to pay for the shortsighted me ! me ! mindset. Even those Nact voters. We really must prevent them getting control of NZ again. Any of the positive movements (admit some slow…) ..will be trashed.
I remember talking years ago with a GNS researcher: they had mapped potential slip sites in Wgtn and Hutt, and said slips were a big potential hazard in many places.
Here something I remembered…anyone know where it ended up?
Arable farmers here are considering planting more milling wheat this autumn to help combat global shortages.
Hurst said growers would be able to switch from growing feed grains to milling wheat.
"The problem with switching is we don't want to create shortages on the other side but the preference is to feed people rather than the livestock sector – these are things we need to work out."
About 70 percent of the wheat used in flour production in New Zealand is imported, mostly from Australia.
That was due to freight costs. Hurst said.
"Basically, we grow 100 percent of the milling wheat grown for the South Island, the main market is in North Island so we need to work on the infrastructure to transport it up there and efficient manner because It's cheaper to bring wheat from Australia to Auckland as opposed from Canterbury to Auckland, that's the problem."
Well..feeding people rather than stock. Thats good. Importing from Australia cheaper !? Why…cant we transport it on Rail? The Rail that has been marginalised…by the old neolib "labour" and national govts.
IMO defies belief that we cant do this in NZ. NZ needs Rail.
Arable production includes wheat, barley and maize for humans and animals to eat and seeds for sowing.
Last year those farmers produced crops worth $1 billion and production and sales from the entire sector, including milling and further production, were worth $2b while more than 7500 people were employed.
The Arable Food Industry Council secretary Thomas Chin said arable producers flew below the radar but were vitally important to New Zealand's economy, both locally and for exports.
Importing from Australia cheaper !? Why…cant we transport it on Rail? The Rail that has been marginalised…by the old neolib "labour" and national govts.
Shipping, not rail. The grain is shipped from Australia.
You'd need to look at coastal shipping from Canterbury to Auckland to be comparable. Rail is not a great solution – especially with the Cook Strait in the way…..
I dunno about shipping instead of rail. Shipping (on fuel) is less efficient, due to water being horribly friction-less compared to hard metal rails. Buses too, incidentally.
The main disadvantage with sea freight is time – it's just slower. But for bulk goods in a regular pipeline – that's not necessarily a disadvantage.
And here's a general article comparing the various kinds of freight moving from an emissions, as well as a cost perspective
Even so, there’s a reason all this stuff travels by boat. Aside from being the cheapest mode, it’s also the most carbon-efficient method of shipping: A big ship will emit about 0.4 ounces of carbon dioxide to transport 2 tons of cargo 1 mile. That’s roughly half as much as a train, one-fifth as much as a truck and nearly a fiftieth of what an airplane would emit to accomplish the same task.
It doesn't seem to match up with any of the sources I've seen. Sea/water freight is cheaper and lower carbon emission than any other mode of transport.
The reasons not to use it are timeliness (it takes longer) and size of shipments. [As well, obviously, only being suitable for shipping to ports]
But for bulk cargo it's the transit method of choice.
This doc is somewhat dated (2012) – but seems to show that it's the same in NZ as for the rest of the world
When considering the maximum number of containers that can be transported by each transport mode (ie 550 for coastal shipping, 40 for rail, and 1 for road), the maritime mode is shown to be slightly more efficient in terms of fuel consumption and CO2 emissions than the rail mode, and markedly better than the road mode. In fact, both maritime and rail modes are about twice as efficient as the road mode.
For the approximately 1500km journey from Auckland to Dunedin, the ratio of costs in transporting a 20ft container was 1 (sea):1.7 (rail):2.8 (road).
Of the three transport modes investigated, coastal shipping appears to be a very cost-efficient and environmentally acceptable means of transporting containerised freight between the North and South Islands.
It also makes it clear that you have to use around 14 trains to equal one cargo ship (the ratio is a lot higher for the big super-size cargo ships).
We would need to substantially increase production and we would also carry the risk of sourcing our supply from (largely) one region…perhaps somewhat risky in an environment of increasing climate extremes.
Hi. I didnt intend it to be an "eggs in one basket" ..case ? (and those eggs are a whole other problem ! ) Thats why i also include RegenAg. Because of Climate Change…which Nact would deny…and set that denial in place forever..if they get back.
There are enough people incl so many Experts ..that are telling us all.. we need to change. More dairy, and Pine-plot Climate pollution offset.. is no way forward.
The comment was to demonstrate that transport is not the only issue….we were self sufficient in milling flour decades ago when the population was half what it is now….and the suitable land area hasnt increased.
Ah, ok thanks for clarification of your thought. And of course..times, process and the Climate ! have all changed hugely. Why we should be seriously (the writing is on.. the everywhere) looking at Alternatives. RegenAg, Other Crops, et al…Because the way we are going..aint going to end well.
I agree. The rough polling of the minnow parties in the last few polls has been: NZF 2-4%; Top 1-2%; NCP 1%
I wonder if this poll only offered the 4 main parties and TPM as options?
It does annoy me when clients of polling companies release the data without the accompanying info about what the questions were, and any limitations on polling. It makes a significant difference in some cases.
It seems obvious to me. Any party that was not going to get seats either through not getting 5% or through not winning an electorate seat has been left out.
Previous TM polls seem to have been covered by media about a week after the end of the polling period. There is no current media coverage of the poll Ian refers to, not a whisper, so it will be interesting to see if he comes back with a source. TM do Labours internal polling, so he may have access via the LP?
Thanks Observer. I’ve tried the search criteria you suggested, and don’t get the Twitter thread. I do get the Herald link, but it’s behind a paywall, so not much use unless you’re a subscriber.
Setting aside the oddity of other minor parties not being counted – this poll might explain the latest pronouncements of Matthew Hooton. My guess is that Hooton thinks Luxon is such an empty suit, that mid-30's in percentage terms in his limit. Hooton therefore aims to persuade centrist, mildly leftish liberals from Labour over to ACT as the best way of ensuring a right-wing government. That's a move that many of them in my experience do not find so hard after all. They are the sort of people who have convinced themselves that they are not really ideological at all, but are simply interested in 'solutions'. Hooton may be malevolent, but he's not dumb.
“That's a move that many of them in my experience do not find so hard after all. “
I agree.
“.,.people who have convinced themselves that they are not really ideological at all, but are simply interested in 'solutions'. “
They may also be tired of the old binary of national v labour. And/or they want to express some level of reactionary vote, but no longer find appeal in NZF?
Andrea Vance has a different take on what appears to be the Talbot Mills poll figures:
The latest corporate polling from Labour’s internal pollsters has the party up 3 points to 36%; National down 1 to 35%; ACT up to 11% and the Greens down 2 points to 7%.
Really, brings point to the fact that leaked polls aren't worth the paper they're written on (or the electrons required to bring them to the screen).
If the 'corporate' who commissioned the polls is going to regularly leak them (or versions of them), then they should have the courage of their convictions and just publish the result.
Maybe not corporate leaking by intent. Maybe employees or contractors doing their own thing. Gossip online. I agree re the anecdotal nature of the twittering.
The current policy of not sending people to prison certainly seems to be having an effect.
I'm not sure that repeated rape offenses is only worth home detention though when the justification is that the offender, at least according to his lawyer, might not like prison.
"Stephen Hembrow asked the judge not to send his client to prison as he would find it “extraordinarily difficult”, stating any sentence imposed will be “crushing” for him."
”The policy was on its way to Cabinet to be considered but, when Allan took over the portfolio, she threw it on the policy bonfire and on Friday threw her predecessors under the bus.
"This is a proposal that was carried through by previous ministers. It started under Andrew Little and I inherited it after Kris Faafoi."
They hinted that the offender had serious mental issues and may be intellectually handicapped. If so prison would be very unsuitable but his crimes are serious so one would hope that he would be helped in other ways.
This piece of shit sexually abused a young girl for years, and he gets to go home with an ankle bracelet. I hope the victim gets the help to deal with not only his offending, but this piss poor excuse for a sentence.
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This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Karin Kirk The 119th Congress comes with a price tag. The oil and gas industry gave about $24 million in campaign contributions to the members of the U.S. House and Senate expected to be sworn in January 3, 2025, according to a ...
Early morning, the shadows still long, but you can already feel the warmth building. Our motel was across the road from the historic homestead where Henry Williams' family lived. The evening before, we wandered around the gardens, reading the plaques and enjoying the close proximity to the history of the ...
Thanks folks for your feedback, votes and comments this week. I’ll be making the changes soon. Appreciate all your emails, comments and subscriptions too. I know your time is valuable - muchas gracias.A lot is happening both here and around the world - so I want to provide a snippets ...
Data released today by Statistics NZ shows that unemployment rose to 5.1%, with 33,000 more people out of work than last year said NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi Economist Craig Renney. “The latest data shows that employment fell in Aotearoa at its fastest rate since the GFC. Unemployment rose in 8 ...
The December labour market statistics have been released, showing yet another increase in unemployment. There are now 156,000 unemployed - 34,000 more than when National took office. And having thrown all these people out of work, National is doubling down on cruelty. Because being vicious will somehow magically create the ...
Boarded up homes in Kilbirnie, where work on a planned development was halted. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 5 are;Housing Minister Chris Bishop yesterday announcedKāinga Ora would be stripped of ...
This week Kiwirail and Auckland Transport were celebrating the completion of the summer rail works that had the network shut or for over a month and the start of electric trains to Pukekohe. First up, here’s parts of the press release about the shutdown works. Passengers boarding trains in Auckland ...
Through its austerity measures, the coalition government has engineered a rise in unemployment in order to reduce inflation while – simultaneously – cracking down harder and harder on the people thrown out of work by its own policies. To that end, Social Development Minister Louise Upston this week added two ...
This year, we've seen a radical, white supremacist government ignoring its Tiriti obligations, refusing to consult with Māori, and even trying to legislatively abrogate te Tiriti o Waitangi. When it was criticised by the Waitangi Tribunal, the government sabotaged that body, replacing its legal and historical experts with corporate shills, ...
Poor old democracy, it really is in a sorry state. It would be easy to put all the blame on the vandals and tyrants presently trashing the White House, but this has been years in the making. It begins with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan and the spirit of Gordon ...
The new school lunches came in this week, and they were absolutely scrumptious.I had some, and even though Connor said his tasted like “stodge” and gave him a sore tummy, I myself loved it!Look at the photos - I knew Mr Seymour wouldn’t lie when he told us last year:"It ...
The tighter sanctions are modelled on ones used in Britain, which did push people off ‘the dole’, but didn’t increase the number of workers, and which evidence has repeatedly shown don’t work. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, ...
Catching you up on the morning’s global news and a quick look at the parallels -GLOBALTariffs are backSharemarkets in the US, UK and Europe have “plunged” in response to Trump’s tariffs. And while Mexico has won a one month reprieve, Canada and China will see their respective 25% and 10% ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission. Gondolas are often in the news, with manufacturers of ropeway systems proposing them as a modern option for mass transit systems in New Zealand. However, like every next big thing in transport, it’s hard ...
This is a re-post from The Climate BrinkBoth 2023 and 2024 were exceptionally warm years, at just below and above 1.5C relative to preindustrial in the WMO composite of surface temperature records, respectively. While we are still working to assess the full set of drivers of this warmth, it is clear that ...
Hi,I woke up feeling nervous this morning, realising that this weekend Flightless Bird is going to do it’s first ever live show. We’re heading to a sold out (!) show in Seattle to test the format out in front of an audience. If it works, we’ll do more. I want ...
From the United-For-Now States of America comes the thrilling news that a New Zealander may be at the very heart of the current coup. Punching above our weight on the world stage once more! Wait, you may be asking, what New Zealander? I speak of Peter Thiel, made street legal ...
Even Stevens: Over the 33 years between 1990 and 2023 (and allowing for the aberrant 2020 result) the average level of support enjoyed by the Left and Right blocs, at roughly 44.5 percent each, turns out to be, as near as dammit, identical.WORLDWIDE, THE PARTIES of the Left are presented ...
Back in 2023, a "prominent political figure" went on trial for historic sex offences. But we weren't allowed to know who they were or what political party they were "prominent" in, because it might affect the way we voted. At the time, I said that this was untenable; it was ...
I'm going, I'm goingWhere the water tastes like wineI'm going where the water tastes like wineWe can jump in the waterStay drunk all the timeI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayAll this fussing and fighting, man, you know I sure ...
Waitangi Day is a time to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi and stand together for a just and fair Aotearoa. Across the motu, communities are gathering to reflect, kōrero, and take action for a future built on equity and tino rangatiratanga. From dawn ceremonies to whānau-friendly events, there are ...
Subscribe to Mountain Tūī ! Where you too can learn about exciting things from a flying bird! Tweet.Yes - I absolutely suck at marketing. It’s a fact.But first -My question to all readers is:How should I set up the Substack model?It’s been something I’ve been meaning to ask since November ...
Here’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s political economy on politics and in the week to Feb 3:PM Christopher Luxon began 2025’s first day of Parliament last Tuesday by carrying on where left off in 2024, letting National’s junior coalition partner set the political agenda and dragging ...
The PSA have released a survey of 4000 public service workers showing that budget cuts are taking a toll on the wellbeing of public servants and risking the delivery of essential services to New Zealanders. Economists predict that figures released this week will show continued increases in unemployment, potentially reaching ...
The Prime Minister’s speech 10 days or so ago kicked off a flurry of commentary. No one much anywhere near the mainstream (ie excluding Greens supporters) questioned the rhetoric. New Zealand has done woefully poorly on productivity for a long time and we really need better outcomes, and the sorts ...
President Trump on the day he announced tariffs against Mexico, Canada and China, unleashing a shock to supply chains globally that is expected to slow economic growth and increase inflation for most large economies. Photo: Getty ImagesLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 9 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 3Politics: New Zealand Government cabinet meeting usually held early afternoon with post-cabinet news conference possible at 4 pm, although they have not been ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymour’s school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Government’s move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “A world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed Kāinga Ora’s decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. “In 2024 Kāinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,” Mr Bishop says. “As part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamariki’s review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 What’s Up hotline. “When I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. “The previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. “National campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 – the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. “This year’s Budget will drive forward the Government’s plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. “Budget 2025 will build ...
For the Government, 2025 will bring a relentless focus on unleashing the growth we need to lift incomes, strengthen local businesses and create opportunity. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today laid out the Government’s growth agenda in his Statement to Parliament. “Just over a year ago this Government was elected by ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. “The Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,” says Mr ...
The Government is relaxing visitor visa requirements to allow tourists to work remotely while visiting New Zealand, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford and Tourism Minister Louise Upston say. “The change is part of the Government’s plan to unlock New Zealand’s potential by shifting the country onto ...
The opening of Kāinga Ora’s development of 134 homes in Epuni, Lower Hutt will provide much-needed social housing for Hutt families, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I’ve been a strong advocate for social housing on Kāinga Ora’s Epuni site ever since the old earthquake-prone housing was demolished in 2015. I ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay will travel to Australia today for meetings with Australian Trade Minister, Senator Don Farrell, and the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum (ANZLF). Mr McClay recently hosted Minister Farrell in Rotorua for the annual Closer Economic Relations (CER) Trade Ministers’ meeting, where ANZLF presented on ...
A new monthly podiatry clinic has been launched today in Wairoa and will bring a much-needed service closer to home for the Wairoa community, Health Minister Simeon Brown says.“Health New Zealand has been successful in securing a podiatrist until the end of June this year to meet the needs of ...
The Judicial Conduct Commissioner has recommended a Judicial Conduct Panel be established to inquire into and report on the alleged conduct of acting District Court Judge Ema Aitken in an incident last November, Attorney-General Judith Collins said today. “I referred the matter of Judge Aitken’s alleged conduct during an incident ...
Students who need extra help with maths are set to benefit from a targeted acceleration programme that will give them more confidence in the classroom, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Last year, significant numbers of students did not meet the foundational literacy and numeracy level required to gain NCEA. To ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced three new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ...
Ki te kahore he whakakitenga, ka ngaro te Iwi – without a vision, the people will perish. The Government has achieved its target to reduce the number of households in emergency housing motels by 75 per cent five years early, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The number of households ...
The opening of Palmerston North’s biggest social housing development will have a significant impact for whānau in need of safe, warm, dry housing, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The minister visited the development today at North Street where a total of 50 two, three, and four-bedroom homes plus a ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced the new membership of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control (PACDAC), who will serve for a three-year term. “The Committee brings together wide-ranging expertise relevant to disarmament. We have made six new appointments to the Committee and reappointed two existing members ...
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. It’s so great to be here and I’m ready and pumped for 2025. Can I start by acknowledging: Simon Bridges – CEO of the Auckland ...
The Government has unveiled a bold new initiative to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) that will create higher paying jobs and grow the economy. “Invest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors, to increase capital investment ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced the largest reset of the New Zealand science system in more than 30 years with reforms which will boost the economy and benefit the sector. “The reforms will maximise the value of the $1.2 billion in government funding that goes into ...
Turbocharging New Zealand’s economic growth is the key to brighter days ahead for all Kiwis, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. In the Prime Minister’s State of the Nation Speech in Auckland today, Christopher Luxon laid out the path to the prosperity that will affect all aspects of New Zealanders’ lives. ...
Human rights advocates must uphold human dignity, rights and justice, while rejecting the discriminatory tactics we oppose, writes Taimor Hazou.Two weeks ago the Palestinian Solidarity Network Aotearoa (PSNA) launched a campaign inviting New Zealanders to call a hotline if they suspected an Israel Defence Force (IDF) soldier that had ...
Immigration New Zealand figures shows more people have been looking at the ETA and visitor visa pages on the website, however fewer people have applied to come or to extend their stay. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kirsten Banks, Lecturer, School of Science, Computing and Engineering Technologies, Swinburne University of Technology Debris on the surface of Mars from the Perseverance mission, captured on April 19 2022. NASA/JPL-Caltech In his inauguration speech in January, United States President Donald Trump ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alix Woolard, Senior Research Fellow, The Kids Research Institute Australia Stock Unit/Shutterstock Have you ever asked someone how their day was, or been chatting casually with a friend, only to have them tell you a horrific story that has left you ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Quentin Grafton, Australian Laureate Professor of Economics, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The Roper RiverChris Ison/Shutterstock Water is now a contested resource around the world. Nowhere is this more evident than in the fight playing out over the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Graeme Turner, Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, The University of Queensland Matej Kastellic/ Shutterstock As we head towards the federal election, both sides of politics are making a point of criticising universities and questioning their role in the community. ...
Alex Casey examines the perils of having your period at a music festival. It was right after Clairo’s swooning set that Sarah* knew it was time. She was on the second day of her period at Auckland’s Laneway festival, and braved the portaloos to empty her menstrual cup and change ...
A battle between health officials and local councils is heating up, as one government party seeks to change the rules. The Bulletin’s Stewart Sowman-Lund explains. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
A global consultancy will lead the government's review of electricity markets, with a local firm offering advice and two groups of experts providing quality assurance. ...
New Public Service Minister Judith Collins is calling for a culture of saying 'yes', but being honest enough with ministers to "reconcile the vision with reality". ...
The future of nearly a third of all huts and tracks managed by the Department of Conservation is in limbo, as the agency faces a 30 percent shortfall in funding to maintain them. ...
Today I’ve had a bit on. I’m living in a 23.4 metre tug off the coast of Samoa and have been for a few weeks now. I’m on a top-secret mission to help save the planet from another potential environmental disaster.I’m currently tasked with looking out the window and making ...
The ‘loneliness epidemic’ is apparently spreading around the world, but what does it look like here in New Zealand? Rachel Judkins reports. It’s a beautiful summer evening in Cornwall Park, with families scattered on the grass and a live band playing a backing track to their laughter. Sprawled on a ...
The Act leader gets a telling-off from the principal and prime minister Christopher Luxon loses his cool in a heated question time. Echo Chamber is The Spinoff’s dispatch from the press gallery, recapping sessions in the House. Columns are written by politics reporter Lyric Waiwiri-Smith and Wellington editor Joel MacManus. ...
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Opinion: It was the 10th anniversary of UNESCO’s International Day of Women and Girls in Science this week, the theme being ‘Unpacking STEM Careers: Her Voice in Science’. It is 2025, but we still need a lot more of her voices in science.In New Zealand, a 2021 survey found that ...
NewsroomBy Dr Jennifer Kruger and Dr Kelly Burrowes
A Government proposal to axe the only two jobs in New Zealand’s health sector of people who were working on a national strategy for palliative care has angered those in the sector, which is already under immense strain.It’s put another wedge between those who want terminally ill patients to live ...
The High Court isn’t the appropriate place to solve a South Island iwi’s claims over freshwater, the Crown says.Ngāi Tahu leaders, and the collective Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, are taking legal action against the Attorney-General, demanding to be involved in decision-making over freshwater. Iwi want the Crown to recognise ...
COMMENTARY:By Sawsan Madina I watched US President Donald Trump’s joint press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last week in utter disbelief. Not that the idea, or indeed the practice, of ethnic cleansing of Palestine is new. But at that press conference the mask has fallen. Recently, fascism ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will on Wednesday announce it is willing, as a last resort, to purchase the collapsed Rex Airlines, in its latest bid to prop up aviation services to regional and remote areas. As ...
Jotham Napat has been elected as the new prime minister of Vanuatu. Napat was elected unopposed in Port Vila today, receiving 50 votes with two void votes. He is the country’s fifth prime minister in four years and will lead a coalition government made up of five political parties — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By A J Brown, Professor of Public Policy & Law, Centre for Governance & Public Policy, Griffith University Australia has turned the corner on its decade-long slide on Transparency International’s annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), once again ranking in the top ten least ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicole Bridges, Senior Lecturer in Public Relations and Director of Academic Program – Communication, Creative Industries, Screen Media, Western Sydney University Stock Rocket/Shutterstock For new parents struggling with challenges such as breastfeeding and sleep deprivation, social media can be a great ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Scott French, Senior Lecturer in Economics, UNSW Sydney US President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Anthony Albanese have stated an exemption for Australia from Trump’s executive order placing 25% tariffs on all steel and aluminium imported into the US is “under consideration”. ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon's attempts to turn the tables back on the Opposition at Question Time today went down like a lead balloon, Jo Moir writes. ...
Another `be kind to each other' moment…
Not rocket science though. Democracy was established for the purpose of dividing society so how issues are debated is divisive in consequence. To unify everyone, you'd have to create a different governance system.
Why do most feel headed in the wrong direction? Pollsters don't ask such questions. They'd likely get answers like "God's will" or "market forces".
Diagnosing a lack of trust & cohesion is no surprise, but advising everyone to behave themselves seems as much of a solution as whistling in the dark.
Half those 52% probably think where going to left the other half to right.
The 40% will be pragmatists ,optimists and those not paying attention, who think that decline is inevitable due to population growth and things are still not to bad.
care to explain that a bit more?
One could do so at considerable length.
A brief response is best but will challenge my ability to be concise! First, it depends on context. For ancient Greeks, that was the polis (city).
So we inherited governance as wise steering, combined with rulership. The latter element was morphed by democracy from natural group selection into a set of rules.
The British empire codified such time-tested rules into a body of law, which we inherited in the 19th century. It divides everyone into citizens & representatives, assuming the latter to act upon common interests with the former. Unfortunately the system never evolved the capacity to formalise that common-interest basis. Make it up as you go along became the pragmatic option, so reps realised their personal interests could always take precedence. Thus the democracy sham (Labour dude Bryan Gould wrote the book entitled that).
ok that's interesting but it doesn't explain,
Who established that particular purpose? And how is the purpose one of dividing society? Do you mean having representatives is dividing society?
Oh, you mean the particular groups in power in any particular context? The behavioural pattern evident to whoever reads history is that a binary relation rules how that develops, in a generic sense: rulers/ruled.
The typical pattern is established by a conqueror, who then proceeds to delegate power to helpers, who entrench within a particular social ecosystem to form a ruling class (the 19th century framing, known earlier as aristocracy).
This division morphs into plurality via forms of democracy, incorporating merchants, scribes, officials. The originating binary becomes less apparent. Magna Carta being baron-enforced, later forming the basis of parliament. Then reps entered the ruling class to supplement the original division.
Weka might be satisfied with this non-answer but to me you’re just continuing with your flawed reckons. In good faith debate, parties meet somewhere in the middle rather than digging into their entrenched views & positions.
Your views of history and of democracy in particular are simplistic and deterministic. You still ignore/overlook the complexity and diversity of historical processes and contexts, and you still reduce them to a single pattern that ignores the role of agency, contingency, resistance, and change. You wrongly assume that democracy is a recent phenomenon that emerged from ‘a conqueror’ down to ‘the ruling class’, but democracy has a long & varied history that dates back to ancient Greece, as you already have correctly alluded to. I have already argued that it involves different forms of popular participation and self-government. You neglect the influence of other factors & forces that shaped the development of democracy, such as social movements, revolutions, wars, ideologies, cultures, religions, even (modern) technologies, et cetera. Lastly, you imply that democracy is a static & fixed concept. But democracy is a dynamic idea that evolves over time and differently in different geographical locations – the concept of democracy itself has been challenged too.
Yeah, I've written about ancient Greek democracy a few times on TS in the past. I'm interested in the general principles involved, and how they have morphed society & culture in their application thro various contexts.
I own books on ancient Greek democracy & I have read them. Likewise books reviewing the history of democracy. I comment on that basis.
I’ve no doubt that you’ve written about it here in the past and I’ll have to take your word for it.
Undoubtedly, you’re not the only one here with a keen interest in this topic. After all, this is a political blog site has been going strong since 2007.
I’m sure you own many books and have read them all, some probably more than once. They may even be good books, who knows?
The problem with your comments is that you seem to think that we should all take these things as a given, without a link or shred of evidence, and accept your authoritative views without challenge or hesitation!?
Without support for your views they become merely reckons that cannot be reasonably debated here on TS and anyone who makes an attempt at this exercise in futility is guaranteed to waste their time.
QED
Fair enough, but I wasn't trying to come on like some kind of authority figure. I'm aware that detecting patterns in history is subjective.
Re the democracy sham, did you read Bryan Gould's book about it? If so, I'd be interested in your take. He wrote it on the basis of his lengthy experience in Labour politics and his success with that.
Ok, thanks. I may have misread the tone of your comments, but the many problems with them remain.
No, I have not read Gould’s book. He’s written a few, hasn’t he?
https://bryangould.com/the-democracy-sham/
He comes from an economics perspective primarily, but he's on about the warping effect neoliberalism has on democracy too. In terms of the gist of my earlier comments, he illuminates the rulers/ruled dichotomy via the influence of transnational corporations.
So his focus is the emergence of those as the primary determinants of the globalising of the market. Back in 2006 corporations were looming as public enemy #1 in the minds of many. Since then we've a trend towards benign corporations (see Senge's The Necessary Revolution, which documents that paradigm shift).
We thought MMP would provide more power to the people but it currently doesn't seem like it did really – or maybe it's just the winter of our discontent…
Your opinion of democracy and your pseudo-factual analysis & explanation are deeply flawed. Left unchallenged on a political blog, it would be highly problematic and a dereliction of duty of any politically-aware person with even only the slightest of historical knowledge and who cares about politics, democracy, and the democratic process.
Democracy doesn’t have a single origin and purpose; it has evolved over time and across different contexts. You completely ignore the wide range of democratic forms and practices, such as direct democracy, representative democracy, deliberative democracy, E-democracy, et cetera. Arguably, TS is an example of E-democracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-democracy). You’re conflating democracy with debate; democracy involves many other aspects such as participation, representation, accountability, transparency, et cetera. You imply that division is always negative and undesirable; perhaps somewhat contentiously, division (but not polarisation!) can also reflect pluralism, diversity and healthy disagreement aka a contest of ideas.
You cherry-pick one case, be it historical or literary-philosophical, and generalise it to all democracies, thereby ignoring the differences between ancient and modern contexts aka presentism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(literary_and_historical_analysis)). You misrepresent the Greek notion of the polis as a unitary and homogeneous entity, i.e., like ‘a ship’, but in reality the polis was composed of multiple groups and factions with conflicting interests and values. You seem to idealise the role of the philosopher king as a benevolent and wise ruler who knows the common good. However, in reality such a ruler could be corrupt, biased or mistaken, as indeed plenty of historical examples have shown. You dismiss the value of popular sovereignty, self-government, and having a say in policy-making & decision-making as essential elements of democracy.
You're totally correct of course. That's why I provided Weka with a brief summary to focus on the key points…
What or rather whose key points? They are your points of view, nothing else.
I countered your reckons and all you have to offer is this pathetic reply!?
You also did not provide a link for the text you quoted and you may want to rectify this, at least.
It feels to me that weka and I are wasting our precious time on this
It was the polis page on Wikipedia, sorry. I would have thought the binary divide between govt & opposition was sufficiently well-known as a structural component of democracy to make the point all by itself.
Therefore I didn't mention it. However, if you want it spelt out: democracy divides, by design. Thus the eternal charade of left competing with right…
The hint was that you’d provide the link
Anyway, here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polis
For constructive debate you’d need to clearly lay out your assumptions, which you omitted.
And you just keep repeating your initial claim without offering any insights.
I see no point in continuing with this charade of yours, but maybe weka has the stomach for it …
Yet another UFO exposé: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2023/06/newshub-nation-investigative-journalist-ross-coulthart-details-his-interview-with-ufo-whistleblower-david-grusch-whose-claims-are-prompting-congressional-hearing.html
Usually official whistleblowers struggle to make the headlines when competing with stuff like China’s Xi greets ‘old friend’ Bill Gates but
So now its Congress vs the Deep State. More interesting than Trump vs the Deep State? We'll have to wait & see. Declaration of non-conflict of interest: it's true that I tried to give a class talk on UFOs exactly 60 years ago (part-way in, I fainted due to nervousness) but I've never seen a UFO.
More to the point – if Grush is so off-beam when it comes to alien spacecraft – what was the quality of advice he was presenting to Biden? I suspect this is the, entirely political, reason for the Congressional enquiry…
While I would love for alien spacecraft to be true – I find myself entirely unable to believe that the US establishment would have been able to keep this secret for more than 60 years. Other countries, possibly yes – but the US with its …. diversity … of opinion, all of whom have a direct line to media… I don't think so.
Such scepticism is sensible. However, as one who has sporadically examined UFO books for 60 years, I can report that some authors have impressed me. When you get inclusions of eyewitness testimony, legally certified as documentation, it's a level above hearsay. Congress may seek such evidence from officials. Nevertheless, Deep State operatives aren't likely to comply…
Perhaps less agnostic about the possible existence of UFOs – but the existence of US research facilities with actual alien spacecraft….no.
Back in the '90s folks were camping out on the Area 51 fence-line, using telephoto lenses, to try & spot nefarious goings-on. I never did hear of them publicising anything notable.
The meanies running the base kept their saucers deep within, I guess.
There was a trend claiming that stealth fighters derived from alien tech re-engineering. However I haven't heard of them being capable of the sharp 90 degree turns that the saucers used to irritate the US fighter pilots pursuing them.
Those were cited by the radar operators doing liaison with the fighter pilots as their eyewitness experiences. So you had two different groups in the armed forces validating each other. Understandable that the guys in the hierarchy would take it seriously.
As a physics grad, I know that such evidence of a lack of momentum defies the laws of physics. Rather than believe others though, I choose the pragmatic option of not believing in something I haven't seen personally.
If the Maggas can believe in Trump they can believe anything. Keep an eye on your neighbours for they be aliens.
I'm with this guy.
Well…uninsurable…is coming. And that Council knowing…(since 1977?) IMO pretty much par for Councils throughout NZ. They know stuff..but..for whatever reasons…sit on or otherwise bury/ignore.
All the mass developments….concrete over waterways, drain wetlands, etc; etc; are now coming home.
Although….History, aye ! And those who ignore….
IMO…a solution to some of it
We can always take the National Party preferred option of simply gobbling up more prime agricultural land and turning it into yuppie housing estates and not worry about unimportant things like transport and storm water.
Hi. Yep everyone..will have to pay for the shortsighted me ! me ! mindset. Even those Nact voters. We really must prevent them getting control of NZ again. Any of the positive movements (admit some slow…) ..will be trashed.
Back to the 90's. .
I remember talking years ago with a GNS researcher: they had mapped potential slip sites in Wgtn and Hutt, and said slips were a big potential hazard in many places.
GNS do have this NZ landslide database map resource.
Here something I remembered…anyone know where it ended up?
Well..feeding people rather than stock. Thats good. Importing from Australia cheaper !? Why…cant we transport it on Rail? The Rail that has been marginalised…by the old neolib "labour" and national govts.
IMO defies belief that we cant do this in NZ. NZ needs Rail.
There is this….
Combine harvest : ) with RegenAg…NZ can surely do better than planting pine trees to offset climate polluters ? IMO.
Shipping, not rail. The grain is shipped from Australia.
You'd need to look at coastal shipping from Canterbury to Auckland to be comparable. Rail is not a great solution – especially with the Cook Strait in the way…..
Yes..of course it is shipped from Australia. I did link after all…
NZ needs much less Auckland-centric..and more whole NZ.
IE NZ Regional.
For years..(some on the Standard : ) I have advocated for a Combined Transport approach in NZ. With…many links : )
Of course Coastal ship. Good you see that ! And Rail. Needed in NZ.
I dunno about shipping instead of rail. Shipping (on fuel) is less efficient, due to water being horribly friction-less compared to hard metal rails. Buses too, incidentally.
Wind shipping though? Let's do it.
I'm not sure where you're getting the figures about sea freight being more expensive than rail.
This is an Australian perspective (with some cost savings due to shipping patterns) – but there's nothing about rail being inherently cheaper.
https://freightcontroller.com.au/coastal-container-shipping-how-does-it-compare-to-rail-and-road/
The main disadvantage with sea freight is time – it's just slower. But for bulk goods in a regular pipeline – that's not necessarily a disadvantage.
And here's a general article comparing the various kinds of freight moving from an emissions, as well as a cost perspective
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/future-freight-more-shipping-less-emissions
Sorry not cheaper, but efficient in terms of using less fuel take the cargo.
Do you have a source for this statement?
It doesn't seem to match up with any of the sources I've seen. Sea/water freight is cheaper and lower carbon emission than any other mode of transport.
The reasons not to use it are timeliness (it takes longer) and size of shipments. [As well, obviously, only being suitable for shipping to ports]
But for bulk cargo it's the transit method of choice.
This doc is somewhat dated (2012) – but seems to show that it's the same in NZ as for the rest of the world
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/497/docs/497.pdf
It also makes it clear that you have to use around 14 trains to equal one cargo ship (the ratio is a lot higher for the big super-size cargo ships).
We would need to substantially increase production and we would also carry the risk of sourcing our supply from (largely) one region…perhaps somewhat risky in an environment of increasing climate extremes.
https://www.farmersweekly.co.nz/technology/canterbury-plains-could-lead-the-way-in-wheat-production/#:~:text=But%20surprisingly%2C%20even%20though%20we,Arable%20Research%20(FAR)%20said.
Hi. I didnt intend it to be an "eggs in one basket" ..case ? (and those eggs are a whole other problem ! ) Thats why i also include RegenAg. Because of Climate Change…which Nact would deny…and set that denial in place forever..if they get back.
There are enough people incl so many Experts ..that are telling us all.. we need to change. More dairy, and Pine-plot Climate pollution offset.. is no way forward.
The comment was to demonstrate that transport is not the only issue….we were self sufficient in milling flour decades ago when the population was half what it is now….and the suitable land area hasnt increased.
Ah, ok thanks for clarification of your thought. And of course..times, process and the Climate ! have all changed hugely. Why we should be seriously (the writing is on.. the everywhere) looking at Alternatives. RegenAg, Other Crops, et al…Because the way we are going..aint going to end well.
Nact would embed NZ in Climate denial.
PLA,with their mantra of "Let the market decide" they will allow eggs of all types again imo.
It will be "We have to keep things affordable" even as they push the costs onto the future generations, in terms of poor product and health.
"Roads of National Importance" a signal to International Oil, "We are still buying" imo
They are quite aggressive with Act at their back.
Hi Patricia.at # 6. With some humour ( sometimes the only way ! ) you could look at "eggs of all types" and include head egg (egg head?) Luxon : ) .
Anyway..back to it. Yes Nact would put a stop to nearly, if not all , of Labour and Green positive movement for NZ.
Nact.Tax cuts for the rich. And Climate denial. Well that about covers them.
I am impressed with the Greens new way Forward
For sure, I hope it gets some of those….who Never Vote…to get off their arse and actually do something .
And, keep up the good fight Patricia ! : )
Well said Foxy:
Talbot Mills Poll out:
Lbour 36%
National 35%
Act 14%
Greens 12%
TPM 3%
Luxon earned his lowest personal polling this week. Can't find the figures.
That totals 100%. So NZF &TOP didn't register?? Seems weird. What about all the other minor parties? Perhaps the pollsters used an arbitrary cut-off?
Rounded off percentages? Suggests their share came to less than 1%.
Well if NZF polling has dropped below 1% that would be big political news. I smell a rat somewhere in this report!
I agree. The rough polling of the minnow parties in the last few polls has been: NZF 2-4%; Top 1-2%; NCP 1%
I wonder if this poll only offered the 4 main parties and TPM as options?
It does annoy me when clients of polling companies release the data without the accompanying info about what the questions were, and any limitations on polling. It makes a significant difference in some cases.
It seems obvious to me. Any party that was not going to get seats either through not getting 5% or through not winning an electorate seat has been left out.
Left 51%
Right 49%
Trebles all round!
Previous TM polls seem to have been covered by media about a week after the end of the polling period. There is no current media coverage of the poll Ian refers to, not a whisper, so it will be interesting to see if he comes back with a source. TM do Labours internal polling, so he may have access via the LP?
Not hard to find.
Google "Talbot Mills". Include a setting like "last 24 hours" or most recent. Several results there.
The media coverage you describe as "not a whisper" is mentioned too.
e.g.
https://twitter.com/FoxyLustyGrover/status/1669863013636272128
Making it clear that it's been leaked, rather than released to the media.
Thanks Observer. I’ve tried the search criteria you suggested, and don’t get the Twitter thread. I do get the Herald link, but it’s behind a paywall, so not much use unless you’re a subscriber.
Where did you get this from? I can't find anything when I google it.
AFICS Talbot Mills don't 'release' their actual polling. It's privately commissioned, and the 'corporate' which commissioned it, may release the data.
Here's the news report on the last one which was released to media
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-drops-in-latest-talbot-mills-poll-left-and-right-neck-and-neck/FYBHPOCAVRFPNPAS5FP7DYCGUY/
Made my day ianmac. Especially the overall gain by Labour and the Greens.
Belladonna that was April May.
Yes, that's why I said "Here's the news report on the last one which was released to media"
Setting aside the oddity of other minor parties not being counted – this poll might explain the latest pronouncements of Matthew Hooton. My guess is that Hooton thinks Luxon is such an empty suit, that mid-30's in percentage terms in his limit. Hooton therefore aims to persuade centrist, mildly leftish liberals from Labour over to ACT as the best way of ensuring a right-wing government. That's a move that many of them in my experience do not find so hard after all. They are the sort of people who have convinced themselves that they are not really ideological at all, but are simply interested in 'solutions'. Hooton may be malevolent, but he's not dumb.
“That's a move that many of them in my experience do not find so hard after all. “
I agree.
“.,.people who have convinced themselves that they are not really ideological at all, but are simply interested in 'solutions'. “
They may also be tired of the old binary of national v labour. And/or they want to express some level of reactionary vote, but no longer find appeal in NZF?
Andrea Vance has a different take on what appears to be the Talbot Mills poll figures:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132345297/want-to-know-who-is-going-to-win-the-election-watch-these-seats
Of course, that's not 'official' either.
Really, brings point to the fact that leaked polls aren't worth the paper they're written on (or the electrons required to bring them to the screen).
If the 'corporate' who commissioned the polls is going to regularly leak them (or versions of them), then they should have the courage of their convictions and just publish the result.
Maybe not corporate leaking by intent. Maybe employees or contractors doing their own thing. Gossip online. I agree re the anecdotal nature of the twittering.
The current policy of not sending people to prison certainly seems to be having an effect.
I'm not sure that repeated rape offenses is only worth home detention though when the justification is that the offender, at least according to his lawyer, might not like prison.
"Stephen Hembrow asked the judge not to send his client to prison as he would find it “extraordinarily difficult”, stating any sentence imposed will be “crushing” for him."
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/man-who-raped-young-girl-given-home-detention
It could have gotten even worse:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/hundreds-of-criminals-could-have-avoided-jail-under-justice-and-corrections-proposal.html
They hinted that the offender had serious mental issues and may be intellectually handicapped. If so prison would be very unsuitable but his crimes are serious so one would hope that he would be helped in other ways.
This piece of shit sexually abused a young girl for years, and he gets to go home with an ankle bracelet. I hope the victim gets the help to deal with not only his offending, but this piss poor excuse for a sentence.
Are you out there Robert. You are missed.