Karol, can you accept that parties from the left have engaged in smear politics in recent election campaigns?
[lprent: If you want to ask one of my authors a question, then make it quite specific and explain why they should bother answering. And read the policy before I wind up having to ban you.
In this case remember that karol isn’t a member of any political party. She probably has better things to do (like writing detailed posts) rather than extracting information to a lazy dickhead who hasn’t bothered to put any effort into making their question specific.
If I see another “pig-fucker” question from the ACT playbook (why you idiots all sound the same is beyond me), I will kick you off the site. This is your warning. ]
greg – can you accept that this is of a completely different order of magnitude from anything which has gone on before?
That it involves not just smear tactics against members of other political parties, but smear tactics within the National Party to advance the political careers of the clients of one of the smearers – whose political agenda is to push the National Party further to the Right?
That it involves smears against people who protect the public interest?
That it involves smears against third parties to advance the commercial interests of the right-wing, anti-union mates of the smearers?
That all this smearing was done by people intimately connected to the National Party and in close personal contact with key NP politicians and members of the government – including Mr Teflon Man himself?
Greg, may I counter with a question for you? Why is it when facts are in the open domain the right always cries foul despite being the ones responsible for the bad decisions that precipitated those facts?
Hey greg, can you accept that the PM’s office has co-ordinated smear campaigns with Whaleoil, allowing the PM to claim that he has no knowledge, when in actual fact Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog?
“when in actual fact Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog”
Kinda says it there doesn’t it? Key talks about content for the Whaleoil blog. Perhaps CV would like to clarify what he means if he didn’t mean Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog
Talking about something for a blog, as opposed to content on a blog, would suggest it hadn’t been posted and it was a discussion, or a suggestion, about contents which could or should be posted. If CV didn’t mean that then he can say so.
Oh Rodney – hasn’t, can’t read, brain hurts, math hard, dot dot dot, its all lies cause I’m like Banksy – don’t do wrong, can’t be wronged, Jordan and Don wouldn’t lie to me……
Well challenging and concerning times.
Are we surprised at the revelations in hagers serial book, or is it a case of connecting the dots in the public demain.
With the labour strategy of be positive vote for positiveness and it’s raft of sound costed policy releases labour must stay on message, on strategy and stay united to present to the swing switch voter a solid front that portrays a real meaningful alternative to the dirty swilling wallowing corporate Tories who think any means to achieve the end result is legitimate and who cares cause the public are really blind dumb and turned off.
Time for real labour to step up and represents the people.
Time for real labour to keep above the mire the dirty trick and blackest of political arts that really is foreign to the average kiwi outlook.
So mr cunliffe and co keep positive.
Think positive, act positve, be positive and dream/ hope for a better nz.
I think Cunliffe should reply to Key’s stupid line of “the left don’t want to debate policies”, by inviting Key to a snap debate, and pointing out that Key offered Cunliffe a debate earlier in the year, and then re-negged on it after Cunliffe accepted.
Over on Kiwiblog I’ve been going on about the difference between theft and copying for a few days now. Initially I described the motivation for this as being to the copyright industry’s desire to increase the size of their catch via US fair use doctrine. However there is a more important reason for the abuse of the English language the the media trots out: control of the judicial process.
Evidence is information, and information is typically obtained by copying it from the original source. When copying is misrepresented as theft, it appears that the evidence has been obtained unlawfully and is therefore inadmissible in judicial proceedings.
This is significant given the corporate media’s role of defending the status quo: in the corporate world the state is the final arbiter of justice. Also given the association between Judith Collins and Cameron Slater, Slater’s correspondence as described in Nicky Hager’s book means that the issue of controlling the evidence has serious implications for the National party.
One thing I’ve noticed that’s concerning to me is the manner in which politicians usurp what should be ‘judicial’ powers – especially evident with Immigration matters, but across the board.
Why do we not have proper ombudsman-like independent bodies to handle such matters rather than having to appeal to Ministers of the Crown who’re open to lobbying and political expediency?
I don’t understand why we’ve not heard more from the judiciary over the years but its been a gradual chip chip chipping away at their role in a functioning democracy.
If you listen to “Insight” – you’ll understand the potential for being able to buy PR and Citizenship status, and for legitimate refugees and others to be either stuck in limbo with no means of support, OR simply deported (sometimes when they have rip-off employment issues needing investigation). It’s all very convenient.
Interesting to see at about 2.30 Gower shaking his head in disapproval when Lisa Owen explained that JK and other nats wouldn’t come on the programme.
Couldn’t finish watching it myself..too much Slater is bad for health.
The problem is snippets are particularly misleading in this case because in order to really understand you have to read the book. The relentlessness and weight of what Hager has uncovered is part of what makes it so affecting. A whole chapter would give a better idea. Even if just one aspect is illuminated, people could start to taste the decompositon.
It is slandersous to suggest that the Standard is in any way comparable. Probably nothing in NZ politics is. None of us here is perfect but we’re not freaking evil.
‘Hager’s Dirty Politics – Death threats or hit jobs?’
By Martyn Bradbury / August 16, 2014
“Let’s be clear, no one deserves death threats, but Slater is now outed as the Wolf that cries boy, and all attempts to justify his actions by pointing to the angry reaction that has occurred because he has been outed simply don’t wash and quite frankly are open to a level of scepticism…”
I need to go look up the exact bits in the book, but I’ve also been thinking that RNZ has a bit of a dilemma now. If Hooton has been using his spot on RNZ to disseminate false information* and that is part of the whole thing that Slater and NACT have been doing, then that’s a clear conflict of interest and must surely breach broadcasting standards.
I was gobsmacked that Kathryn Ryan had Hooton on the day after the book release, and then, after letting him comment for most of the spot as an independent commentator, tried to ask him about what Hager says in the book about him and his own involvement. It’s like she had no sense of where the boundaries lie or what is proper (sorry to sound so old fashioned). This more than a lot of the other stuff worries me, because while we can expect Slater and co to be unethical, manipulative and have no sense of right and wrong, we might still reasonably expect an organisation like RNZ to be able to tell the difference between someone whose opinion is independent versus someone who is up to their neck in the thing being discussed.
*by ‘if’ I mean beyond the usual bullshit he peddles.
Part of that included the question Ryan put to Hooton about the ‘conversation’ between him, Cathy Odgers and Cameron Slater in which, I think, Hooton provides to Odgers Nicky Hager’s address. This despite the clear indication from Odgers that this would be dangerous for Hager.
His ‘defence’ was that Hager’s address was publicly available (e.g., in his submissions to select committees). That misses the point completely, of course, given the context within which he apparently offered Hager’s address up to someone who had indicated what she would do with it and how dangerous that would be for Hager’s security.
Ryan just let that answer stand and did not follow it up to point out that the public availability of Hager’s address was not the issue in relation to Hooton’s behaviour – either she had not read the book properly or she simply didn’t want to cause a scene.
The link to the Media Watch item can be found on this page (for those who cannot access the way the link happened above – obliterating some of my text in the process):
A BSA complaint should be lodged this is not the first time Hooton has bullied people who he Doesn’t approve of its time he went RNZ ‘s credibility on Hooton is a joke and shows whose pulling all the strings in the Media in NewZealand, While bomber Bradbury highlighted John Keys throat slitting gesture in parliament he was given the chop straight away!
Hooton published Hagers address in a very intimidating way he should not only be sacked but prosecuted!
Funnily enough, I was just talking to a former National voter in the whanau. He’s decided to vote NZF after reading the excerpts in today’s Herald (so much for my theory above) and reckons that they will be the main beneficiaries of all this.
Quite possible. They’ll never vote Labour, Greens are too flakey, that Dotcom is a crim (and Hone isn’t far behind), Colin Craig – bah. So Winston is all that is left, you know what you are voting for, and you know what you are getting.
“I think we can kiss goodbye to Winston going into Govt with the Nats
The Nats Brand is just too toxic”
Probably the biggest danger at this point for the left is people assuming that, voting NZF because they believe that will keep Labour in the centre. However history tells us that Peters will do whatever he wants and whatever works for him at the time. For instance, were Key to resign as leader/PM, what is to stop Peters supporting the new, reformed National party?
Peters/NZF is never a vote for the left, and if you want a change of govt this year then vote for an actual left wing party.
“For instance, were Key to resign as leader/PM, what is to stop Peters supporting the new, reformed National party?”
If Key does it before the election, National won’t be in a position to form a government.
If he does it after the election, in negotiation with Winston, National voters will be in an uproar and there will be cries of “tail wagging the dog” like you’ve never seen before. ACT getting charter schools pales into insignificance if Winston got to choose the PM.
Are you suggesting that Peters doesn’t have the capacity to influence coalition negotiations to the point that he gets to decide who the govt is? History says otherwise.
Or perhaps you are saying that the National Party would rather lose the election than have Winston dictate who is leader. I doubt that. I also doubt that the National Party membership will have any overt power in that decision. Voters will have no say.
“If Key does it before the election, National won’t be in a position to form a government.”
Do you mean because voters will swing away from a party that replaces its leader that close to the election? Maybe, but are you willing to take the risk? I’m not.
Are you suggesting that Peters doesn’t have the capacity to influence coalition negotiations to the point that he gets to decide who the govt is? History says otherwise.
Of course he has chosen the government before. But he has not simultaneously chosen the leader of that new government.
Or perhaps you are saying that the National Party would rather lose the election than have Winston dictate who is leader. I doubt that. I also doubt that the National Party membership will have any overt power in that decision. Voters will have no say.
That is exactly what I’m saying. Any government formed from such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the NZ public and would be seen as illegitimate. As much as National might like this outcome (they get to hold power), it would be a government under huge criticism and have a hard time getting work done, and of course seriously damage the National party brand.
Note, in the two-part Helen Clark documentary that aired on TV3 last year, Winston said he chose National because Helen Clark and Jim Anderton were literally not speaking to each other and he didn’t see how it would be possible to form a stable government in such a situation. So he probably made the right call, there, especially given subsequent events with the Alliance anyway.
Do you mean because voters will swing away from a party that replaces its leader that close to the election? Maybe, but are you willing to take the risk? I’m not.
Partly that, but mainly because the only reason National is polling as high as it does is “that nice man Mr Key”. I would have thought that was obvious, especially given that the biggest angle about the Dirty Politics book is the way in which it tarnish’s teflon-John’s image.
“That is exactly what I’m saying. Any government formed from such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the NZ public and would be seen as illegitimate. As much as National might like this outcome (they get to hold power), it would be a government under huge criticism and have a hard time getting work done, and of course seriously damage the National party brand.”
You are assuming that it would be done overtly. From what I recall Peters likes to negotiate in secret, and as we have seen this week NACT are masters at covering their tracks.
I honestly don’t think that Key and his mates give a shit about the long term National Party brand other than to the extent that it affects their power. They will be weighing up the relative merits of getting another term at this point in time even if it means being in opposition for longer after that.
Note, in the two-part Helen Clark documentary that aired on TV3 last year, Winston said he chose National because Helen Clark and Jim Anderton were literally not speaking to each other and he didn’t see how it would be possible to form a stable government in such a situation. So he probably made the right call, there, especially given subsequent events with the Alliance anyway.
Chooky has often cited that. I’d like to see two other credible sources that support that view. It’s certainly not how people at the time saw it playing out. Looks like Peters spin to me.
Partly that, but mainly because the only reason National is polling as high as it does is “that nice man Mr Key”. I would have thought that was obvious, especially given that the biggest angle about the Dirty Politics book is the way in which it tarnish’s teflon-John’s image.
Still a risk though, to vote for Peters on the assumption of what other swing voters might do.
You are assuming that it would be done overtly. From what I recall Peters likes to negotiate in secret, and as we have seen this week NACT are masters at covering their tracks.
Um, it would have to be public? John Key wins the election, then immediately stands down and the leftovers of National form a government with Peter’s propping them up? Don’t you think the MSM might be asking questions about why Key decided to stand down, given that he’s committed to staying for the full term if he wins this election? Pretty drastic turnaround to stand down within the weeks of a good election victory, don’t you think?
Personally I see Winston as leaning towards Labour, not National, although I know many others don’t agree.
Chooky has often cited that. I’d like to see two other credible sources that support that view. It’s certainly not how people at the time saw it playing out. Looks like Peters spin to me.
Difficult to see where any other sources would come from to back it up. It’s possible Winston is using it as an excuse to cover up his decision that ultimately proved to be an unpopular one that didn’t stand the test of time. The other point here of course, is that rather than saying “Winston went with National before, he’ll do it again”, you could say “Winston went with National and it turned out to be a disaster…”. And that’s before you factor in John Key’s particular venom towards Winston.
Still a risk though, to vote for Peters on the assumption of what other swing voters might do.
Of course, if you want to change the government, you should vote left, not NZFirst. My point is that your bogeyman of Winston orchestrating a National-led government by getting Key to stand down is far-fetched.
You’re still making quite a few assumptions. Perhaps Key resigns for personal reasons. Perhaps National think he is a liability. Maybe there are more revelations before the election. The scenario you present of Peters orchestrating this himself the week after the election isn’t the only way it could go down. And you have far more faith in the MSM than I do in regards to asking the right questions.
“Personally I see Winston as leaning towards Labour, not National, although I know many others don’t agree.”
That’s not relevant though. The point is that Peters can’t be trusted as a vote to change th govt, irrespective of what one thinks about his politics.
“My point is that your bogeyman of Winston orchestrating a National-led government by getting Key to stand down is far-fetched.”
No more farfetched than the idea that he would go with National in that election where lots of lefties voted for him. Peters is capable of much more than you are giving him credit for, that’s the point.
You’re still making quite a few assumptions. Perhaps Key resigns for personal reasons. Perhaps National think he is a liability. Maybe there are more revelations before the election. The scenario you present of Peters orchestrating this himself the week after the election isn’t the only way it could go down. And you have far more faith in the MSM than I do in regards to asking the right questions.
“Personal reasons” is of course possible, but he is on record as saying he will stick around for the full term if he wins this election. So if he tried to use the fig-leaf of ‘personal reasons’, I think he’d have to give a little more detail.
It seems unlikely that National would see Key as more of a liability than they would shacking up with Winston in what would obviously be a very unpopular government.
More revelations before the election is possible I guess, with the obvious one being KDC’s coming just 5 days before polling day. Key could stand-down as a result of that, but I suspect any revelations that were so damaging to Key, would also damage National and once again Winston wouldn’t want to stitch up such an unpopular government.
That’s not relevant though. The point is that Peters can’t be trusted as a vote to change th govt, irrespective of what one thinks about his politics.
Yes, I agree, but the point you are making, which I’m arguing against, is that we could end up with a National government where Key resigns that is propped up by Winston. This really is incredibly unlikely. My comment about Winston’s politics is irrelevant to this particular point, I just threw it in there to give you an idea where I’m coming from.
No more farfetched than the idea that he would go with National in that election where lots of lefties voted for him. Peters is capable of much more than you are giving him credit for, that’s the point.
No, it is far-fetched. Winston went with National and Bolger. You are proposing a situation where Winston goes with National and not-Key. That is a very different scenario, one which would be publicly untenable. Why would Winston prop up an unpopular and likely-to-be-viewed-as-illegitimate government when he could just go with the left? He already made this sort of decision back in 1996 and it did not go well for him (although again, the situations are not directly comparable).
Now, if you just want to say, Winston would go into coalition with National after the election with John Key as PM, I have no problem in agreeing to that. The point is you’re suggesting an outcome where Key isn’t PM.
Rubbish. A timeline is presented noting that Hide suddenly decided to step down for undisclosed reasons, and that the dates of the alleged blackmail would explain it. There is a big difference between saying that a theory fits, and saying that any other explanation must be a lie. The difference isn’t a matter of pedantry, either, but one that you could drive a truck through.
Yeah, I read that. I have no idea whether it’s true or not, but it pays to remember that it’s just another person claiming to know what went on (without saying what did). There seem to be quite a few of those right now, on all sorts of subjects.
I’m sure that if Hide is completely confident about his story then he will risk the discovery motions and slow gears of justice and start a defamation suit.
On the other hand if he does not, then it won’t be surprising either. As it involves politics, the public interest parts of the Lange vs Atkinson decision will kick in.
Incidentally calling someone a liar is not “actionable”. It appears to be a common (and quite boring) misconception based on the old common law basis of libel/slander. These days we only have defamation and it largely concerns itself with facts. There appears to be no statement of false facts. There is understandable speculation.
It’s not easy being a person of conscience in a totalitarian state
The few who have spoken out of line have been threatened or denounced as traitors.
After Haaretz commentator Gideon Levy accused air force pilots of perpetrating “the cruelest (and) most despicable deeds” against Gaza’s weakest and most helpless,” his employer hired him bodyguards. Readers cancelled their subscriptions, people stopped in the street to insult him and government whip Yariv Levin denounced him as a liar, a “mouthpiece of the enemy” who should be put on trial for treason.
“I have never faced such aggressive reaction, never,” Levy told AFP in his cramped office at Haaretz in Tel Aviv, away from the coffee shops where he fears being insulted. “Nobody cares here about the suffering of Gaza. More than this, if you dare to express empathy you are a traitor,” he said.
Slater doing his interview from Tel Aviv is not a coincidence here, Zionism has long been present within the conservative tradition of the right. But to be fair there are also honourable values within that conservative tradition, the light and dark threads have been there since the time of the Roman empire.
Ugly Truth Slater claimed he was still in regular contact with John Key .Shonkey is claiming the opposite. A Slater Slip up excuse the pun but Key and Slater are Compulsive Liars telling more lies to cover previous lies!
Claiming Labour caucus members regularly feed him information what BS!
Cameron “Whale Oil” Slater is bleary-eyed, having spent 24 hours on a plane, and now finds himself in a war zone during a ceasefire. It’s Friday in Israel; Saturday back home.
He’s one of a group of international journalists invited to visit by the Israeli government, which has been earning bruising international condemnation over the civilian death toll in the Gaza conflict.
Is it me, or is dirty politics just describing the actions of some privileged white folk?
These white folk are just so unsure of themselves and their white privilege, they fear losing any power? These same white folks, then use said white power, and privilege – to attack, and vilify anyone they see in the way of their keeping power? Hell they even attack other white folk, later, a whole city of them. Funny how some of the most nasty comments are directed towards poor white folk, they got class hatred going on too?
Beyond the fact that this is happening in NZ and the power elite here is European patriarchal and caucasian, I don’t follow what you mean. Maybe you could be more specific eg give an example of the nasty comments directed at poor white folk.
There needs to be a better word for the cultural dysfunction here in NZ, and to some degree otherwise known as “European patriarchal”, than the standard broad brush of “white privilege”. I’m white, but not white enough (not that I’d want to be given the examples set for me) and know exactly what white privilege has cost me and can see it every day. To refuse entirely to be white in my world, I’d have to live on the street. The things I refuse to do, for example, emulate that goddamn cowardice that unpins NZ white culture, has cost me big time. Life makes cowards of us all, unexpectedly, but to hell with always and only swinging at he little guy. I often wander around muttering about goddamn whities, and I’m white.
Historically speaking, what we see here is not sourced from Patriarchy, or European in a specific sense. If we allow other cultures to trace their roots back to year dot, just to find something admirable by today’s political values, it is not consistent or fair to maintain the line that ol’ whitey may not do the same. If we restrict white culture to the past few hundred years, we’re already seeing how it was distorted from an earlier time. But if we go back a thousand or more, we find something very different.
We find a patriarchy that was more enlightened than any of the isms available today. Seemingly as an oxymoron, early patriarchy did not restrict women from owning or inheriting property or maintaining respected positions within a group. It didn’t kick them out on their ass if their husband died or left them. It did not seek to control their sexuality either. It allowed groups of people with limited wealth and power to band together to form equally representative groups in political matters, so that they were heard too – communism within a patriarchy. There were severe penalties against wealth and power attacking those not as powerful. Mental illness was known about and allowed for; xenophobia was not something they were interested in at all.
It’s not good enough to wave around patriarchy and men as some sort of inherent evil in the world, since forever. We need to call it what it is: Greed and avarice. Being white, or being a greedy whitey has a certain style, no doubt about it. Most of us can spot it. But whites don’t have a singular claim to greed with all other peoples just honest babes in the world. As most of you know, when a culture tries to appease and assimilate into white greed, things get really complicated, take a look at what it did to Indian culture, for an example. I saw evidence of that at the supermarket yesterday, and how many steps removed from the original event is that?! Yesterday too, I received a flyer from a company that was using aboriginal patterns and they’d included a long spiel about how it was ok, because the artists were being paid. No one comes out clean once they “dance with the devil” and unravelling it becomes impossible.
Something went badly wrong in white culture around the time the Saxons (not to imply blame) went on a rampage across their corner of the globe. But there are records, romanticised or not by time, of what was before then. What is ol’ whitey’s excuse for not appealing to the source values of his culture?
Nicky Hager has just told Wallace Chapman that his email source has refused him permission to release the original emails (Hager says he handed them back to the source so he could not be injuncted) because he (the source) is probably going to release them.
Hager has asked him not to release the personal stuff, but who knows what will be released?
This is dynamite-fun and games ahead.
Meanwhile Hager says he does not believe Key when he says he didn’t know what Ede was up to. (Duh!). It is the Key-Ede link that will destroy Key-this is what the media should be concentrating on, as Patrick Gower is doing in the Herald today. Funny how Ede has gone to ground.
Gower is concentrating on the Ede’Key connection, but only because he’d be an ass if he didn’t. Hence the sprinkling throughout his article of some Key-esque bullshit.
From Gower’s article
“And so far this campaign there’s been all sorts of tricks to get to Key – ”
“F-John Key” chants
At an IMP event, probably orchestrated to some extent.
anti-Semitic graffiti
afaik there is zilch evidence tying this to the left.
the clever blues song Planet Key
A song written by an independent musician who afaik has no ties to any political party.
and even a burning effigy.
done by a small group of people who also have no affiliation to any political party.
None of those really worked and, as usual, Key has charged on through.
Probably because none of them were designed to hurt the Key brand in beltway terms. They all had different agenda that are probably illegible to many in the beltway.
There’s a lot of faux outrage from the Labour Party about dirty politics. Let’s face it, if five years of Labour’s emails were leaked there’d be a similar book.
Really? give us some examples then Paddy so we can make a valid comparison.
Thanks BG, yes I didn’t think you were supporting Gower’s article, I just got a bit carried away with his bullshit. I agree that Hager’s statement about the emails is very interesting.
“I don’t do stuff with him, believe it or not. I don’t leak because I don’t need to. Look, ministers might feed things, and other people might feed things, but I just don’t do that. If I want to do something I just say, ‘I’m doing it.’ “
So Ministers might feed things eh – what did you really know key-with-the-faulty-memory – it will come out.
What’s the last book you read?
“Portrait of a Prime Minister. John Roughan’s book.”
Don’t laugh. A bit earlier in the piece he explained…
He said he found Portrait of a Prime Minister, a mildly hagiographic account of his life by New Zealand Herald writer John Roughan, “a lot more interesting than I thought I would”
Personally I hope the revelations of how filthy key and the rest of them are destroy the political life of him and he has to scuttle off right quickly.
Nicky Hager said the same things first to Susan Wood on Q&A this morning .. worth a look but
footage not online at TVNZ yet but this written summary is:
My what a fascinating week. Shonkey always admired Muldoon and it seems perhaps he’s gone straight to the piggyplaybook in his use of the sis.
Unlike back then we have some new voices and this material from hager which didn’t exist back when Moyle was the target.
Liking the Labour campaign message, keep on that and the costed policies whilst others can examine this gov’t and their corrupt behaviour. Time for the NACT to reap what they’ve sown.
A rerun of the hollowmen is required before 20/9/14.
Why getting rid of sub editors is a bad idea No94: The New Zealand Herald.
An insider told The Sun newspaper: “You would be mad to try to get on a plane if you had a child abuse inquiry hanging over you.”
However, people who have been questioned under caution by police can apply to the US Embassy for special consideration for a visa and will be assed on an individual basis.
Kim Dotcom has analysed Whale Oil’s traffic and has concluded most of it is bot-generated, with only 30 percent coming from NZ. He posts a graphic of his findings in this tweet https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/500719306947059713
I have been thinking quite a lot about ‘safe’ and former ‘safe’ Labour seats, and of National’s increasing popularity within these electorates. Especially Auckland Central.
Nikki Kaye won the Auckland Central electorate in 2011 by a mere 700 odd votes. A very small majority. Before 2008 the seat had been safely in Labour’s hands since 1919. Jacinda Ardern was popular enough that she should have been able to bring the seat back safely into Labour’s hands. But the Greens Denise Roche won 2,903 votes, effectively splitting the left vote, and allowing National to take the seat, despite overall having less votes than that of the left.
My question is since it seems this election will come down to the wire, wouldn’t it be prudent for Labour and the Greens to work together on this one, for the Greens to withdraw their candidate and throw their support behind Ardern. It would be a tough sell admittedly given Roche’s support in certain areas, but Roche will not win that seat, it’s just not going to happen. So why bother running? Isn’t it counter productive to do so?
Labour and Greens need to show unity in Auckland Central, every seat counts.
KJS One 11.14
“wouldn’t it be prudent for Labour and the Greens to work together”
Yes. But that can’t be done because Labour wants to test themselves before the NZ public for their own individual league rating, even if it could lose them the election. Great strategic thinking.
Ideological purity has nothing to do with the constraints limiting Labour’s approach. Rather it is a bad mix of internal political rigidities and strategic disconnects.
Not when it’s a fight between parties who will get over the 5 percent mark. Then it’s a case of maximising party vote. The Greens gained nearly 8000 party votes in Auckland Central in 2011, they would likely see a reduction those numbers if they didn’t have a campaign team there. Strategic voting centres on getting minor parties over the mark to bring in coat-tailers. On a national level, Auckland Central doesn’t really matter as both Kaye and Ardern are already both going to return to Parliament.
That said, there is some mana to holding an electorate seat and I would much rather see it with the left.
It could be done that way. However, having a strong candidate provides a convenient and powerful focal point for events, leadership and media/journalists during an electorate campaign.
National makes a big deal of their “list MP for [electorate]”, don’t see why the Green’s can’t do the same. Obviously sitting MPs should be used to their best advantage during the election campaign, so they can still focus electorate-level events on that MP, just on the day you can’t vote for them on the electorate ballot.
In fact, it would mean the sitting MP could comfortably campaign across several adjoining electorates.
I guess it’s conceivable that having a Green MP on the electorate vote would increase party votes for Greens. I’m specifically talking about when someone gets into the polling booth and sees the voting ballot, here.
It does also make the campaign electioneering easier to just say “I’m your electorate candidate” rather than some other vague thing about vote for Green party but not me personally.
There is at least a strong effect in Rongotai (Russel Norman) and Dunedin North (Metiria Turei). In both those electorates the Greens scored well over 20% party vote.
Yes, but is that because their name is on the ballot, or because they’re personally campaigning there? They can do the latter without the former, allowing other left wing parties to win the electorates while hopefully still garnering the same party vote. Or perhaps even more, since as I suggested they could then campaign in other nearby electorates without looking like carpet baggers.
is that because their name is on the ballot, or because they’re personally campaigning there?
I think it’s a bit of both.
Partly it’s because their names are on the ballot with a Green logo beside them.
I understand some people think that people are more likely to Party vote Green, if they see a GP logo included beside the list of electorate candidates.
“I understand some people think that people are more likely to Party vote Green, if they see a GP logo included beside the list of electorate candidates.”
It legitimises the party. Silly, I know, but in lots of ways we all are 😉
KJS, the official GP line this election is to go for the party vote (the implication is for voters to vote tactically on the electorate vote if they want to). I think it’s fair to make the case for the GP to step back in an electorate where their absence increases the chances of a left wing govt. But as I understand it that is not the case in Auckland (Waitakere was similar). Where the issue is about who wins the electorate and becomes the MP for that area, I think the GP is right to campaign hard in the seat because it increases their party vote. You have to remember that Labour are not doing the GP any favours either. Note that the GP has not stood candidates in the two crucial Māori seats (TTT and Waiariki), but then there are other crucial seats where it has stood candidates so who knows what is intended. By crucial I mean where the outcome of that electorate could affect the left’s ability to form a govt.
I wouldn’t suggest Greens don’t campaign for party vote, but rather that they focus entirely on that, and do not run an electorate candidate.
It’s true that both Kaye and Ardern will be returning to parliament regardless, but if the seat goes to Labour that still means another list MP can come in, and above all, a moral victory in reclaiming a seat that was Labour for the greatest part of a century.
Perhaps Labour feels they can unseat Kaye without support from the Greens, especially since the Greens lost 4.6% of their previous electorate vote and -1.3% the previous time, so there seems to be trend, but is it worth the risk? Labour and the Greens will need to form a coalition to govern, perhaps this is a case where Labour can offer the Green something concrete.
Thank you Pete, Weka and trickledrown for your reponses, interesting reads.
Standing someone in an electorate seat IS campaigning for the party vote, that’s why they do it (partly anyway). You get a much bigger presence if you stand someone in the electorate than if you don’t. The GP are experienced in this and know what they are doing. It might not suit Labour, but like I said Labour aren’t doing them any favours either.
Myself, I would prefer to see more accommodations made, but we have this history now that includes NZF fucking with MMP early on so it’s a bit skewed, and then Labour fucking with the GP which forced the GP to harden up and go for exactly what they want without having to consider Labour.
but if the seat goes to Labour that still means another list MP can come in
No, that’s not how it works.
The total number of MPs depends on the party vote. Electorate MPs automatically get seats, and then the list MPs are used to “top-up” the allocation until they reach equivalence with their party vote.
So, say Labour got 30% of the vote, which entitles them to 36 MPs total. If 25 of those MPs are electorate MPs (and Jacinda lost the seat), they get another 11 list MPs, amongst them would be Jacinda due to her list ranking (so there are 10 ‘other’ list MPs). If Jacinda wins the electorate, they get 26 electorate MPs and their total number of MPs remains unchanged at 36, so they get 10 ‘other’ list MPs.
So the outcomes are identical. It is only when the party vote is equal or less than the number of electorate won, OR the person who wins the electorate seat is low down on the party list, where the winner of an electorate seat matters for the makeup of Parliament.
Not clear from your post but it looks like you are confused on mmp? If labour is entitled to (say)35 seats because of hte part vote, winning an electorate will in fact mean one less list MP, not one more. They would be entitled to 35 – whether they are list or electorate is irrelevant.
If you are confused about MP I think that is a great illustration of the problems with our version of MMP. You, who are obvoiusly keenly interested in politics, and partisan still dont understand how MMP works. What hope for the average punter?
“If you are confused about MP I think that is a great illustration of the problems with our version of MMP.”
What other “versions” of MMP are there? The whole point of MMP is that it has locally-elected representatives but that the Parliament is determined by the national party vote. That’s actually what “Mixed-Member Proportional” means.
well you know what I mean. I should have said PR instead of MMP.
I’d just like a simpler system. Maybe MMP with no thresholds and no coat tailing. I don’t like the inequity that its possible to create with the threshold and with electorate seats.
I think you’re being a little off colour there. It is evident from what has been said that yes, I was mistaken in thinking that winning an electorate seat would result in an additional MP, but I don’t think that means I am confused about MMP on the whole. I don’t think it was an unreasonable assumption for someone not familiar with the intricacies of MMP to think that you have a party vote which determines X number of list MPs and then electorate MP’s are tact on to the total.
Despairing at the ‘hopes’ of the average punter based upon on a simple mistake of one passionate young man is quite unwarranted.
Despairing at the ‘hopes’ of the average punter based upon on a simple mistake of one passionate young man is quite unwarranted.
I don’t think so. I think the majority of “punters out there in punter-land” (to quote Don Brash) don’t really understand how MMP works, including the ones that think they do. Many probably understand the broad strokes, but like yourself, get hung-up on the details.
Thankfully the system rather protects against this, in the fact that generally it’s only the party vote that matters. Once they abolish the coat-tailing rule and drop the threshold, it’ll matter even less what the average voter understands, or doesn’t, about how the system actually works.
Rather unusual for Stuff online but there is this piece of satire written under the heading John Key’s Diary. The only mention, I might add, of Nicky Hager’s book on the site.
I would try to post a link but am posting this from my phone and am already crosseyed with the effort and besides I am in the middle of a bush about to go for a walk.
Steve Braunias has been doing this series of ‘secret diaries’ every week for months, about a figure in the news that week, usually politicians. He’s done ones for Cunliffe, Colin Craig, Jamie Whyte and McCully, amongst others, all of which I’ve read on stuff.
I always do appreciate your anal retentive replies even when directed my way. Perhaps because I am not so retentive that I did miss reading link 435 on page 7689.
Now, don’t disappoint me by not linking to every Hager item on the front page.
More importantly, why didn’t you mention these dairies before, as obviously, they’re a good read.
I look forward to the link which says that you did.
I am sitting on a log in the middle of nowhere thinking; I am hungry, where’s the nearest shop.
I always do appreciate your anal retentive replies even when directed my way. Perhaps because I am not so retentive that I did miss reading link 435 on page 7689.
Don’t make sweeping claims about “the only story on the site” if you haven’t actually spent the time to check that. The story I linked to, at the time of writing this, is 4th in the politics section on the home page. Earlier in the day it was the 2nd or 3rd story. Hardly “page 7689” or “link 435”.
More importantly, why didn’t you mention these dairies before, as obviously, they’re a good read.
I look forward to the link which says that you did.
Because I actually have found most of them to not be very funny. The John Key one is ok. I particularly like the Whyte one, which is why I linked to it now.
I don’t think I’m under any obligation to post every link I find interesting on stuff.co.nz to this blog; in fact I think people would be rather irritated if I did. I’m not really under any obligation to post anything on this site.
Here I am thinking that you are about informing the greater left about other opinions, but apparently not, your particular viewpoint counts more. If I find something particularly interesting to this forum, I would share it. We call it tatau tatau, an expression of togetherness.
But you are absolutely right – you don’t have to share a thing.
Stuff is usually presented by the general left as corporately driven. Its articles lean to the right and conversely the left is in the cold. That occasionally some article bears fruit in otherwise infertile dirt should be enjoyed and not choked on.
Now have the last word as I am about to have a coffee and cake.
Actually the point behind my reply to you was rather an admonishment against hyperbole, than anything else. It irritates me.
But I have also discovered, reading several other blogs over the last few days due to Dirty Politics (generally TS is all I read), that a lot of people actively avoid Whaleoil or The Standard because they consider both sites to be full of crazy partisan loons. Personally I don’t think The Standard is full of crazy loons (there are of course, some), but hyperbolic comments such as yours (regardless of their merit, or the intent behind them) doesn’t help the perception that people here are crazy. So I like to point it out to their authors where I can. I wish no ill-will whatsoever.
Instead of saying “site” I should have said “front page” because I was looking for anything on Stuff to suggest they were giving oxygen to Hager’s book. At the time I could see nothing on the front page to say otherwise. I am not a great fan of stuff but did click onto the diary thing out of curiosity.
I confess I don’t watch the broadcast media much but it puzzles me that apart from the bit about hacking Labour’s website we don’t seem to have seen anyone looking to Nact party presidents etc for comment. After all they now employ Jason Ede don’t they?
Are we alse seeing more women interviewers because they are unlikely to frequent the gentlemen’s club?
I always rather though that that was the case ‘a tainted president’ yet they continue to hang onto him. Pity the public right to know takes a back seat.
However, you would have though there would be some party spokesperson fronting up even if it was only to claim the moral high ground “It came from us”.
Does anyone still care about GMO’s in our food supply? They are still around and I’m guessing more so if we sign the TPPA. http://farmwars.info/?p=13246#more-13246
The lack of Right Wing Spin Bullies on this site today is is very peculiar given their indefensible circumstances !
I believe they are regrouping for a new strategy being worked out over the weekend ready for another onslaught tomorrow !
Berend de Boer Joyce Key and Hooton will be burning the Midnight Oil to work out a strategy to shift the blame of their corruption!
Indeed – Infused/Puckish/Jamie Lee Hooten et all have extended morning prayers and are busy learning their lines – they’ve got to get it right – loading bullshit on bullshit doesn’t seem to be working too well. There’s “From the Right ….. and From the Right ….” on NinetoNoon tomorrow, as well as those in-depth, incisive breakfast TV ‘spots’
“While Slater was having his photo taken for this article, a text arrived – from Justice Minister Judith Collins. He wouldn’t reveal its content, but exclaimed that it was 4am in New Zealand and wondered out loud what she was doing up.”
Who pays the piper on stuff News had a big dig at Big donors extracting favours from National !
Dongwha Liu”s connections to John Key and Judith Collins connections both with Orivda !
The Electoral commission should be looking at the$6.3 million in secret donations to New Zealand.
The Stuff article calls it corruption and it should have no place in NewZealand!
can’t link on not so smartphone!
The whale is beached and and flailing around looking for water somewhere near the dead sea!
As Rob pointed out Team Key continue to pour Oil on a fire to try and calm thongs down showing how desperate they are!
So if Slater gets who has hacked him wrong the flames will turn into an inferno!
Steve Braunias’s Satire is pure gold on Merrill Lynch Bangster John Key.
The smiling assassin feeding a sack of raw meat to Slippery Slater Crusher Collins in the sewer that runs under parliament while the smiling assassin becomes the laughing assassin!
All the visits to the mansion by Clare Curran, Russel Norman, Winston Peters, Laila Harre, Martyn Bradbury, Alistair Thompson, Nicky Hager. They are all part of a mega-conspiracy to wreck an election, all for the benefit of Kim Dotcom.
Key said he doesn’t know what Ede’s role with National was now.
Eh?
See I would’ve thought that with all the events of the last week, with all of the questions about Ede and his ties to the PM, and all the potential his actions have to damage the PM, Keys would’ve had someone find out everything there is to know about exactly what Ede is is up to right now and made sure he wasn’t doing anything that might be a bad look for Keys and National.
But hey, what do I know about image-driven control freaks?
I wonder if when Ede moved from the PM’s office to the National Party he sought and received a reference from his boss?
I’m not sure when Ede became a National Party employee but I presume they hired him because of the skills he demonstrated while working in the PM’s office.
After all, it’s election year and those particular skills may have been thought to be very useful to ‘bolster’ an election campaign?
I am saddened by the love fest arising from the posting by a police informant and especially one who is quite probably a sex criminal as well. Anyone worth listening to knows how careful and thorough Nicky Hager is. He doesn’t need a reference from someone who made a living off lies and betrayal.
I agree. Some have gone over the top… but lets be clear that just because others – including me – were willing to give him credit for submitting the post here (and I have no knowledge of sexual criminality) it hardly constituted a “love fest”.
Prime Minister John Key says he can’t explain why “black ops” spin doctor Jason Ede still has a staff access card to Parliament.
Ede was spotted in the Parliamentary complex last week – with a security access swipe card – despite National saying he is employed by them at the party’s Wellington head office.
– Andrea Vance
Nice opening from Andrea Vance. There’s hope for pressure journalism in this country yet.
Cunliffe said on Radiolive (during an extraordinary speech about ‘the book’) that he had a staffer attempt ringing Ede & it went thru the parliamentary switchboard. So, still on the payroll it seems.
Left a post on Whaleoil decrying the death threats directed at Cameron and suggesting I would assist him in reporting these to the police….his moderators removed my post. Why? Why would Cameron not want to report these numerous threats he has been receiving?It’s very simple to track back and identify where online threats originate….but why on earth would he not be interested?
Probably because he realises that there is this thing called ‘karma’. And you cannot spend the last 6 months acting like a wannbe brownshirt without it coming back to bite you on the ass.
Feel sorry for the kids though, they never asked for Slater to be their father. If he was my dad, I would hang myself.
Victimizing himself!
his txt claims are laughable!
When the real person who handed Hager releases the real emails and himself all Slaters slipperyness will have him going to Alaska next For a lovin with Sarah Palin!
Have read the book
It is jawdropping
Another thing about it, that I haven’t seen talked about alot, is the jacking up of National Candidate selections for the electorates. And also the man called Simon Lusk.
Seriously, all Members of the National Party need to read this book. IF they had any delusions about their fine upstanding party of gentlemen and ladies, they might be in for a shock
Might be a bit of stuff going down within its hallowed walls methinks !!!!!
If the leadership doesn’t want to answer any of the questions raised by “Dirty Politics” and Slater, then perhaps the journalists should start picking off individual National MP’s for their opinions regarding the closeness of the likes of Slater, Ede and co to their beloved party.
I bet many of them are as appalled as Jo.Bloggs is over this. Saw one less than happy looking electorate MP striding for her plane to Wellington this evening. May have been that she had just seen the latest poll on tonight’s news but suspect she may also be feeling the affects of having to be connected with Slater and co.
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Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Radhika Raghav, Teaching Fellow, School of Humanities and Social Sciences, University of Otago Netflix Indian director Sanjay Leela Bhansali is known for his big-budget Bollywood production, featuring grand sets, star casts, meticulously choreographed dance sequences and lavish costumes, jewellery and furnishings. ...
Sir Robert devoted his life to disability rights after living in institutions in his younger years, says Kaihautū Tika Hauātanga | Disability Rights Commissioner Prudence Walker. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University Violence against women is not a women’s problem to solve, it is a whole of society problem to solve; and men in particular have to take responsibility. Those were the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Allen, Senior Lecturer in Chemical and Renewable Energy Engineering, University of Newcastle Snapshot freddy/ShutterstockPlans to revive an old coal-fired power station using bioenergy are being considered in the Hunter region of New South Wales. Similar plans for the station ...
Responding to the long-awaited release of judges’ special allowances, including free air travel and hotels for spouses, generous sabbaticals, and access to limousines, Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Alex Murphy said: “In what world does your employer ...
Analysis - The United States has unveiled plans to boost the weapons trade with Australia and the UK, on the same day that Winston Peters is expected to sketch NZ's position on AUKUS. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrea Carson, Professor of Political Communication, Department of Politics, Media and Philosophy, La Trobe University Since Australia’s First Nations Voice to Parliament referendum in October 2023, diverse commentaries have sought to explain why it failed. But what does an analysis of media ...
Lawyers representing two iwi as well as the Māori Women’s Welfare League on Wednesday asked the Court of Appeal to overturn last week’s High Court decision on the Waitangi Tribunal’s decision to summons Children’s Minister Karen Chhour. The Tribunal is currently investigating the Government’s decision to repeal section 7AA of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will introduce legislation to ban deepfake pornography and provide more funding for the eSafety Commission to pilot age-assurance technologies. The contribution of internet sites to gender-based violence was one major issue ...
Average ordinary time hourly earnings, as measured by the Quarterly Employment Survey (QES), increased 5.2 percent in the year to the March 2024 quarter, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. Annual wage cost inflation, as measured by the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dimitrios Salampasis, FinTech Capability Lead | Senior Lecturer, Emerging Technologies and FinTech, Swinburne University of Technology Clem Onojeghuo/Unsplash In the digital era, the job market is increasingly becoming a minefield – demanding and difficult to navigate. According to the Australian Bureau ...
As of the March 2024 quarter, we can now look back on 20 years of data related to youth not in employment, education, or training (NEET), as collected by the Household Labour Force Survey (HLFS), according to figures released by Stats NZ today. "The ...
Thousands of workers attended public events in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch today to celebrate International Workers’ Day (May Day), but union representatives are urging caution and vigilance over the Government’s blatantly "anti-worker" ...
The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in the March 2024 quarter, compared with 4.0 percent in the previous quarter, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. ...
The PSA is warning the Government that the sensitive information of New Zealanders held by various agencies will fall into the wrong hands if the latest round of proposed cuts goes ahead. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Talitha Best, Professor of Psychology, CQUniversity Australia Victoria Rodriguez/Unsplash How do sugar rushes work? – W.H, age nine, from Canberra What a terrific question W.H! Let’s explore this, starting with some of the basics. What is sugar? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karinna Saxby, Research Fellow, Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research, The University of Melbourne MART PRODUCTION/Pexels Increasing income support could help keep women and children safe according to new work demonstrating strong links between financial insecurity and domestic violence. ...
ANALYSIS:By Olli Hellmann, University of Waikato When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day today on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also to mark a defining event for national identity. The battle of Gallipoli against ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark A Gregory, Associate Professor, School of Engineering, RMIT University The telecommunications industry faces a major shakeup following the release of the post-incident report on last November’s 12-hour Optus outage. Telecommunications companies will have to share more information with customers during future ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Bookseller Confessional, in which we get to know Aotearoa’s booksellers. This week: Eden Denyer, bookseller at Unity Books Auckland.Weirdest question/request you’ve had on the shop floorA mother came in looking for anything we might have on Alaskan bison as that was her little boy’s ...
NZCTU Economist Craig Renney said new data released by Statistics New Zealand shows the need for Government to act now, with unemployment rising from 3.4% to 4.3%. ...
The outpouring of anger over Maiki Sherman’s hyperbolic presentation of this week’s ‘nightmare’ poll is itself an overreaction, argues Stewart Sowman-Lund. Politicians love nothing more than to pretend they don’t care about polls. This week, deputy prime minister Winston Peters said he didn’t give a “rat’s derriere” about a TVNZ ...
Asia Pacific Report Ngāti Kahungunu in Aotearoa New Zealand’s Hawkes Bay region has become the first indigenous Māori iwi (tribe) to sign a resolution calling for a “ceasefire in Palestine”, reports Te Ao Māori News. Reporter Te Aniwaniwa Paterson talked to Te Otāne Huata, who has been organising peace rallies ...
By Dale Luma in Port Moresby “We want grants and not concessional loans,” is the crisp message from Papua New Guinea businesses directly affected by the Black Wednesday looting four months ago. The businesses, which lost millions after the January 10 rioting and looting, say they need grants as part ...
Happy May Day. Join a union. Q: What’s worse than a staff break room where the only place to sit and have a cup of tea is on a teetering stack of old pornography magazines? A: Your boss replacing the magazine stacks with chairs that are “heartily encrusted with ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Former opposition leader Matthew Wale has been announced as the second prime ministerial candidate ahead of the election in Solomon Islands tomorrow. He will face off against former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele, who was announced by the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation ...
We get but one birthday a year – why not make it last as long as possible by scheduling as many meals with friends and family as you can? This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. How do you celebrate your birthday? Do you celebrate at ...
A Koi Tū discussion paper released today proposes sweeping changes to New Zealand’s media industry. The principal’s key author, Gavin Ellis, explains how journalists have a key role to play in making others value their role in society. This is an abridged version of a piece first published on knightlyviews.com ...
The Government’s spending cuts are again targeting support for Māori with proposed reform of the agency charged with advising on Māori wellbeing and development. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Douglas, Honorary Senior Lecturer, UNSW Aviation., UNSW Sydney The history of budget jet airlines in Australia is a long road littered with broken dreams. New entrants have consistently struggled to get a foothold. Low-cost carrier Bonza has just become the industry’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rosalind Dixon, Director, Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law, UNSW Sydney Australia is finally having a sustained conversation about violence against women and what we can do about it. It is more than time. Australian women and girls continue to experience ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne stockfour/Shutterstock Preliminary bulk billing data released this week shows a 2.1% rise in bulk billing up to March. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Schulz, Senior Lecturer, University of Adelaide Australia is once again grappling with how we can stop gendered violence in our country. Protests over the weekend show there is enormous community anger over the number of women who are dying and National ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University AnastasiaDudka/Shutterstock What if the government was doing everything it could to stop thieves making off with our money, except the one thing that could really work? That’s how it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Erin Harrington, Senior Lecturer in English and Cultural Studies, University of Canterbury The Conversation It seems to be a time of old favourites. This month our experts have recommended two new seasons – the second season of Alone Australia (although ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland A bright Eta Aquariid meteor photobombed this photo of comet C/2020 F8 (SWAN) in May 2020.Jonti Horner Meteors – commonly known as shooting stars – can be seen on any night of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Flannery, Honorary fellow, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock Current concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO₂) in Earth’s atmosphere are unprecedented in human history. But CO₂ levels today, and those that might occur in coming decades, did occur millions of years ago. ...
Winston Peters has been keen to dismiss speculation on our involvement in Aukus but will give a speech tonight on the direction of our foreign policy, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Usmar, Lecturer in Critical Media Literacies, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images With the coalition government’s ban of student mobile phones in New Zealand schools coming into effect this week, reaction has ranged from the sceptical (kids will just get ...
Hospitals around the country are not allowed to make a single hiring decision without the approval of Te Whatu Ora's head office, including for cleaners and administration staff. ...
A new report on protecting journalism and democracy in New Zealand recommends a levy be charged on global platforms like Facebook and Google to fund media firms undertaking public interest reporting. It also calls for the reinstatement of a powerful Broadcasting Commission to distribute public funding for journalism and other ...
On International Workers' Day, also known as May Day, the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi and the wider union movement are celebrating the proud history of the labour movement during a tough time for working people. ...
From bills to beards, a walk through the former Green co-leader’s time in politics. After close to a decade in politics, James Shaw is preparing to bid farewell to parliament. Tonight will see the former minister deliver his valedictory address, certain to be a speech filled with Shaw’s trademark wit ...
Two months ago, MPs unanimously voted to give themselves a week off in Efeso Collins’ honour. On Tuesday, most were too busy to give even an hour of their time. The day Fa’anānā Efeso Collins died, parliament felt different. In a building that operates at a breakneck pace, everyone stopped ...
India’s election involves hundreds of millions of people and is a months-long affair. Here’s how voting works and what’s at stake.The biggest-ever election in world history started on April 19, with more than 10% of the world’s population eligible to vote. Elections in India, the world’s most populous country ...
After the Christchurch earthquake, the then-national civil defence boss compared his experience to “putting a team on the rugby field who have never ever played together before”. Now, eight years later – and following a damning inquiry into the emergency response of cyclones Gabrielle, Hale and the Auckland anniversary weekend floods – ...
“I had just come off the end of a major robbery case which I had been working on for six months when I got a call on the afternoon of September 1, 1992, that some remains had been found at a building site in Devonport, so I drove over with ...
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Karol, can you accept that parties from the left have engaged in smear politics in recent election campaigns?
[lprent: If you want to ask one of my authors a question, then make it quite specific and explain why they should bother answering. And read the policy before I wind up having to ban you.
In this case remember that karol isn’t a member of any political party. She probably has better things to do (like writing detailed posts) rather than extracting information to a lazy dickhead who hasn’t bothered to put any effort into making their question specific.
If I see another “pig-fucker” question from the ACT playbook (why you idiots all sound the same is beyond me), I will kick you off the site. This is your warning. ]
greg – can you accept that this is of a completely different order of magnitude from anything which has gone on before?
That it involves not just smear tactics against members of other political parties, but smear tactics within the National Party to advance the political careers of the clients of one of the smearers – whose political agenda is to push the National Party further to the Right?
That it involves smears against people who protect the public interest?
That it involves smears against third parties to advance the commercial interests of the right-wing, anti-union mates of the smearers?
That all this smearing was done by people intimately connected to the National Party and in close personal contact with key NP politicians and members of the government – including Mr Teflon Man himself?
Greg, may I counter with a question for you? Why is it when facts are in the open domain the right always cries foul despite being the ones responsible for the bad decisions that precipitated those facts?
Hey greg, can you accept that the PM’s office has co-ordinated smear campaigns with Whaleoil, allowing the PM to claim that he has no knowledge, when in actual fact Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog?
Key suggests content for Slaters blog?
Citation needed
Yeah you probably should find a cite for that one, Conty. It doesn’t look anything like what CV said.
“when in actual fact Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog”
Kinda says it there doesn’t it? Key talks about content for the Whaleoil blog. Perhaps CV would like to clarify what he means if he didn’t mean Key himself frequently talks to Cameron Slater about content for the Whaleoil blog
Nope.
“talk about” does not equal “suggests content”
Talking about something for a blog, as opposed to content on a blog, would suggest it hadn’t been posted and it was a discussion, or a suggestion, about contents which could or should be posted. If CV didn’t mean that then he can say so.
“…and it was a discussion, or a suggestion…”
…or a donut. Or an antelope. Or a blueprint for a flying machine.
I mean if we’re just going to add random words to other peoples sentences to change the meaning, fill your fucking boots.
Or as I call them, seminars.
Yes Conty, “talks about content”. So why didn’t you just say that instead of claiming that CV said Key “suggests content”, which he didn’t say at all?
Oh Rodney – hasn’t, can’t read, brain hurts, math hard, dot dot dot, its all lies cause I’m like Banksy – don’t do wrong, can’t be wronged, Jordan and Don wouldn’t lie to me……
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11309981
Amazing how many people can jump to judgement without actually reading the book.
Dimpost has a rather nice post up laying out the timeline of Hide’s departure from ACT.
http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/the-rodney-hide-allegations/
That is an excellent post and well worth reading.
Well challenging and concerning times.
Are we surprised at the revelations in hagers serial book, or is it a case of connecting the dots in the public demain.
With the labour strategy of be positive vote for positiveness and it’s raft of sound costed policy releases labour must stay on message, on strategy and stay united to present to the swing switch voter a solid front that portrays a real meaningful alternative to the dirty swilling wallowing corporate Tories who think any means to achieve the end result is legitimate and who cares cause the public are really blind dumb and turned off.
Time for real labour to step up and represents the people.
Time for real labour to keep above the mire the dirty trick and blackest of political arts that really is foreign to the average kiwi outlook.
So mr cunliffe and co keep positive.
Think positive, act positve, be positive and dream/ hope for a better nz.
I think Cunliffe should reply to Key’s stupid line of “the left don’t want to debate policies”, by inviting Key to a snap debate, and pointing out that Key offered Cunliffe a debate earlier in the year, and then re-negged on it after Cunliffe accepted.
Nice
Over on Kiwiblog I’ve been going on about the difference between theft and copying for a few days now. Initially I described the motivation for this as being to the copyright industry’s desire to increase the size of their catch via US fair use doctrine. However there is a more important reason for the abuse of the English language the the media trots out: control of the judicial process.
Evidence is information, and information is typically obtained by copying it from the original source. When copying is misrepresented as theft, it appears that the evidence has been obtained unlawfully and is therefore inadmissible in judicial proceedings.
This is significant given the corporate media’s role of defending the status quo: in the corporate world the state is the final arbiter of justice. Also given the association between Judith Collins and Cameron Slater, Slater’s correspondence as described in Nicky Hager’s book means that the issue of controlling the evidence has serious implications for the National party.
Rodney Hide just posted about the emails that “everyone agrees were stolen”.
I’ve posted some legal references which show that “everyone” is mistaken.
Mr Hide, are only people who agree with you real people?
Anyone who is familiar with Rodney’s musings will know he lives in a little bubble world all of his own.
Interesting “Insight” documentary on Immigration this morning (RNZ) – audio under http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
One thing I’ve noticed that’s concerning to me is the manner in which politicians usurp what should be ‘judicial’ powers – especially evident with Immigration matters, but across the board.
Why do we not have proper ombudsman-like independent bodies to handle such matters rather than having to appeal to Ministers of the Crown who’re open to lobbying and political expediency?
I don’t understand why we’ve not heard more from the judiciary over the years but its been a gradual chip chip chipping away at their role in a functioning democracy.
If you listen to “Insight” – you’ll understand the potential for being able to buy PR and Citizenship status, and for legitimate refugees and others to be either stuck in limbo with no means of support, OR simply deported (sometimes when they have rip-off employment issues needing investigation). It’s all very convenient.
That Slater interview really needs re-posting:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Whale-Oil-blogger-Cameron-Slater/tabid/1348/articleID/357106/Default.aspx
Whole lotta explaining going on.
Lisa Owen was very good in that interview. Amazing to see a journo actually coping with the material and not being afraid to do their job.
Yeah she’s impressed me lately. And that’s pretty sad, because she’s just doing what they’re all meant to do.
Interesting to see at about 2.30 Gower shaking his head in disapproval when Lisa Owen explained that JK and other nats wouldn’t come on the programme.
Couldn’t finish watching it myself..too much Slater is bad for health.
Nicky Hager picks snippets from the book for the Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310001
The problem is snippets are particularly misleading in this case because in order to really understand you have to read the book. The relentlessness and weight of what Hager has uncovered is part of what makes it so affecting. A whole chapter would give a better idea. Even if just one aspect is illuminated, people could start to taste the decompositon.
It is slandersous to suggest that the Standard is in any way comparable. Probably nothing in NZ politics is. None of us here is perfect but we’re not freaking evil.
I’ve got a suspicion that the article you point to is misleading. Nicky Hager’s name is not on the byline, and it does not read like his writing.
It does read like one of those anonymous editorials that the Herald is so fond of writing, and not allowing comments on.
+1
‘Hager’s Dirty Politics – Death threats or hit jobs?’
By Martyn Bradbury / August 16, 2014
“Let’s be clear, no one deserves death threats, but Slater is now outed as the Wolf that cries boy, and all attempts to justify his actions by pointing to the angry reaction that has occurred because he has been outed simply don’t wash and quite frankly are open to a level of scepticism…”
Matthew Hooton is not a fit person for Radio New Zealand.
I need to go look up the exact bits in the book, but I’ve also been thinking that RNZ has a bit of a dilemma now. If Hooton has been using his spot on RNZ to disseminate false information* and that is part of the whole thing that Slater and NACT have been doing, then that’s a clear conflict of interest and must surely breach broadcasting standards.
I was gobsmacked that Kathryn Ryan had Hooton on the day after the book release, and then, after letting him comment for most of the spot as an independent commentator, tried to ask him about what Hager says in the book about him and his own involvement. It’s like she had no sense of where the boundaries lie or what is proper (sorry to sound so old fashioned). This more than a lot of the other stuff worries me, because while we can expect Slater and co to be unethical, manipulative and have no sense of right and wrong, we might still reasonably expect an organisation like RNZ to be able to tell the difference between someone whose opinion is independent versus someone who is up to their neck in the thing being discussed.
*by ‘if’ I mean beyond the usual bullshit he peddles.
Don’t blame Kathryn for her producer’s shoddy job.
Yes, the producer’s fault too, but Ryan was asking the questions.
no you don’t understand @ weka – it’s ALL the producer’s fault.
Kathryn has NO input into it (/sarc)
That’s why Mike I-tend-to-agree-with-you-Matthew Williams is used as being representative of “the Left”
On National Radio today, Media Watch did a good analysis of the Hager reporting.
Part of that included the question Ryan put to Hooton about the ‘conversation’ between him, Cathy Odgers and Cameron Slater in which, I think, Hooton provides to Odgers Nicky Hager’s address. This despite the clear indication from Odgers that this would be dangerous for Hager.
His ‘defence’ was that Hager’s address was publicly available (e.g., in his submissions to select committees). That misses the point completely, of course, given the context within which he apparently offered Hager’s address up to someone who had indicated what she would do with it and how dangerous that would be for Hager’s security.
Ryan just let that answer stand and did not follow it up to point out that the public availability of Hager’s address was not the issue in relation to Hooton’s behaviour – either she had not read the book properly or she simply didn’t want to cause a scene.
The link to the Media Watch item can be found on this page (for those who cannot access the way the link happened above – obliterating some of my text in the process):
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
A BSA complaint should be lodged this is not the first time Hooton has bullied people who he Doesn’t approve of its time he went RNZ ‘s credibility on Hooton is a joke and shows whose pulling all the strings in the Media in NewZealand, While bomber Bradbury highlighted John Keys throat slitting gesture in parliament he was given the chop straight away!
Hooton published Hagers address in a very intimidating way he should not only be sacked but prosecuted!
I think we can kiss goodbye to Winston going into Govt with the Nats
The Nats Brand is just too toxic
Funnily enough, I was just talking to a former National voter in the whanau. He’s decided to vote NZF after reading the excerpts in today’s Herald (so much for my theory above) and reckons that they will be the main beneficiaries of all this.
Quite possible. They’ll never vote Labour, Greens are too flakey, that Dotcom is a crim (and Hone isn’t far behind), Colin Craig – bah. So Winston is all that is left, you know what you are voting for, and you know what you are getting.
“I think we can kiss goodbye to Winston going into Govt with the Nats
The Nats Brand is just too toxic”
Probably the biggest danger at this point for the left is people assuming that, voting NZF because they believe that will keep Labour in the centre. However history tells us that Peters will do whatever he wants and whatever works for him at the time. For instance, were Key to resign as leader/PM, what is to stop Peters supporting the new, reformed National party?
Peters/NZF is never a vote for the left, and if you want a change of govt this year then vote for an actual left wing party.
“For instance, were Key to resign as leader/PM, what is to stop Peters supporting the new, reformed National party?”
If Key does it before the election, National won’t be in a position to form a government.
If he does it after the election, in negotiation with Winston, National voters will be in an uproar and there will be cries of “tail wagging the dog” like you’ve never seen before. ACT getting charter schools pales into insignificance if Winston got to choose the PM.
For those reasons, this won’t happen.
Are you suggesting that Peters doesn’t have the capacity to influence coalition negotiations to the point that he gets to decide who the govt is? History says otherwise.
Or perhaps you are saying that the National Party would rather lose the election than have Winston dictate who is leader. I doubt that. I also doubt that the National Party membership will have any overt power in that decision. Voters will have no say.
“If Key does it before the election, National won’t be in a position to form a government.”
Do you mean because voters will swing away from a party that replaces its leader that close to the election? Maybe, but are you willing to take the risk? I’m not.
Of course he has chosen the government before. But he has not simultaneously chosen the leader of that new government.
That is exactly what I’m saying. Any government formed from such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the NZ public and would be seen as illegitimate. As much as National might like this outcome (they get to hold power), it would be a government under huge criticism and have a hard time getting work done, and of course seriously damage the National party brand.
Note, in the two-part Helen Clark documentary that aired on TV3 last year, Winston said he chose National because Helen Clark and Jim Anderton were literally not speaking to each other and he didn’t see how it would be possible to form a stable government in such a situation. So he probably made the right call, there, especially given subsequent events with the Alliance anyway.
Partly that, but mainly because the only reason National is polling as high as it does is “that nice man Mr Key”. I would have thought that was obvious, especially given that the biggest angle about the Dirty Politics book is the way in which it tarnish’s teflon-John’s image.
“That is exactly what I’m saying. Any government formed from such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the NZ public and would be seen as illegitimate. As much as National might like this outcome (they get to hold power), it would be a government under huge criticism and have a hard time getting work done, and of course seriously damage the National party brand.”
You are assuming that it would be done overtly. From what I recall Peters likes to negotiate in secret, and as we have seen this week NACT are masters at covering their tracks.
I honestly don’t think that Key and his mates give a shit about the long term National Party brand other than to the extent that it affects their power. They will be weighing up the relative merits of getting another term at this point in time even if it means being in opposition for longer after that.
Note, in the two-part Helen Clark documentary that aired on TV3 last year, Winston said he chose National because Helen Clark and Jim Anderton were literally not speaking to each other and he didn’t see how it would be possible to form a stable government in such a situation. So he probably made the right call, there, especially given subsequent events with the Alliance anyway.
Chooky has often cited that. I’d like to see two other credible sources that support that view. It’s certainly not how people at the time saw it playing out. Looks like Peters spin to me.
Partly that, but mainly because the only reason National is polling as high as it does is “that nice man Mr Key”. I would have thought that was obvious, especially given that the biggest angle about the Dirty Politics book is the way in which it tarnish’s teflon-John’s image.
Still a risk though, to vote for Peters on the assumption of what other swing voters might do.
Um, it would have to be public? John Key wins the election, then immediately stands down and the leftovers of National form a government with Peter’s propping them up? Don’t you think the MSM might be asking questions about why Key decided to stand down, given that he’s committed to staying for the full term if he wins this election? Pretty drastic turnaround to stand down within the weeks of a good election victory, don’t you think?
Personally I see Winston as leaning towards Labour, not National, although I know many others don’t agree.
Difficult to see where any other sources would come from to back it up. It’s possible Winston is using it as an excuse to cover up his decision that ultimately proved to be an unpopular one that didn’t stand the test of time. The other point here of course, is that rather than saying “Winston went with National before, he’ll do it again”, you could say “Winston went with National and it turned out to be a disaster…”. And that’s before you factor in John Key’s particular venom towards Winston.
Of course, if you want to change the government, you should vote left, not NZFirst. My point is that your bogeyman of Winston orchestrating a National-led government by getting Key to stand down is far-fetched.
You’re still making quite a few assumptions. Perhaps Key resigns for personal reasons. Perhaps National think he is a liability. Maybe there are more revelations before the election. The scenario you present of Peters orchestrating this himself the week after the election isn’t the only way it could go down. And you have far more faith in the MSM than I do in regards to asking the right questions.
“Personally I see Winston as leaning towards Labour, not National, although I know many others don’t agree.”
That’s not relevant though. The point is that Peters can’t be trusted as a vote to change th govt, irrespective of what one thinks about his politics.
“My point is that your bogeyman of Winston orchestrating a National-led government by getting Key to stand down is far-fetched.”
No more farfetched than the idea that he would go with National in that election where lots of lefties voted for him. Peters is capable of much more than you are giving him credit for, that’s the point.
“Personal reasons” is of course possible, but he is on record as saying he will stick around for the full term if he wins this election. So if he tried to use the fig-leaf of ‘personal reasons’, I think he’d have to give a little more detail.
It seems unlikely that National would see Key as more of a liability than they would shacking up with Winston in what would obviously be a very unpopular government.
More revelations before the election is possible I guess, with the obvious one being KDC’s coming just 5 days before polling day. Key could stand-down as a result of that, but I suspect any revelations that were so damaging to Key, would also damage National and once again Winston wouldn’t want to stitch up such an unpopular government.
Yes, I agree, but the point you are making, which I’m arguing against, is that we could end up with a National government where Key resigns that is propped up by Winston. This really is incredibly unlikely. My comment about Winston’s politics is irrelevant to this particular point, I just threw it in there to give you an idea where I’m coming from.
No, it is far-fetched. Winston went with National and Bolger. You are proposing a situation where Winston goes with National and not-Key. That is a very different scenario, one which would be publicly untenable. Why would Winston prop up an unpopular and likely-to-be-viewed-as-illegitimate government when he could just go with the left? He already made this sort of decision back in 1996 and it did not go well for him (although again, the situations are not directly comparable).
Now, if you just want to say, Winston would go into coalition with National after the election with John Key as PM, I have no problem in agreeing to that. The point is you’re suggesting an outcome where Key isn’t PM.
@weka 10.54
Good call.
Danyl post about Hide being blackmailed is pretty amazing
http://dimpost.wordpress.com/
thanks.
permanent link http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/the-rodney-hide-allegations/
Very close to actionable I would have thought. He seems to be publicly calling hide a liar.
Rubbish. A timeline is presented noting that Hide suddenly decided to step down for undisclosed reasons, and that the dates of the alleged blackmail would explain it. There is a big difference between saying that a theory fits, and saying that any other explanation must be a lie. The difference isn’t a matter of pedantry, either, but one that you could drive a truck through.
A commenter there claims to know the inside story and implies that while something dodgy went on, it wasn’t blackmail.
Yeah, I read that. I have no idea whether it’s true or not, but it pays to remember that it’s just another person claiming to know what went on (without saying what did). There seem to be quite a few of those right now, on all sorts of subjects.
Yes, of course. Just thought it was worth highlighting.
I’m sure that if Hide is completely confident about his story then he will risk the discovery motions and slow gears of justice and start a defamation suit.
On the other hand if he does not, then it won’t be surprising either. As it involves politics, the public interest parts of the Lange vs Atkinson decision will kick in.
Incidentally calling someone a liar is not “actionable”. It appears to be a common (and quite boring) misconception based on the old common law basis of libel/slander. These days we only have defamation and it largely concerns itself with facts. There appears to be no statement of false facts. There is understandable speculation.
It’s not easy being a person of conscience in a totalitarian state
The few who have spoken out of line have been threatened or denounced as traitors.
After Haaretz commentator Gideon Levy accused air force pilots of perpetrating “the cruelest (and) most despicable deeds” against Gaza’s weakest and most helpless,” his employer hired him bodyguards. Readers cancelled their subscriptions, people stopped in the street to insult him and government whip Yariv Levin denounced him as a liar, a “mouthpiece of the enemy” who should be put on trial for treason.
“I have never faced such aggressive reaction, never,” Levy told AFP in his cramped office at Haaretz in Tel Aviv, away from the coffee shops where he fears being insulted. “Nobody cares here about the suffering of Gaza. More than this, if you dare to express empathy you are a traitor,” he said.
Read more….
http://news.yahoo.com/witch-hunt-against-israels-war-critics-134302477.html
Slater doing his interview from Tel Aviv is not a coincidence here, Zionism has long been present within the conservative tradition of the right. But to be fair there are also honourable values within that conservative tradition, the light and dark threads have been there since the time of the Roman empire.
Ugly Truth Slater claimed he was still in regular contact with John Key .Shonkey is claiming the opposite. A Slater Slip up excuse the pun but Key and Slater are Compulsive Liars telling more lies to cover previous lies!
Claiming Labour caucus members regularly feed him information what BS!
Look who’s on the payroll.
Cameron “Whale Oil” Slater is bleary-eyed, having spent 24 hours on a plane, and now finds himself in a war zone during a ceasefire. It’s Friday in Israel; Saturday back home.
He’s one of a group of international journalists invited to visit by the Israeli government, which has been earning bruising international condemnation over the civilian death toll in the Gaza conflict.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391846/Blogging-money-and-blurred-lines
Is it me, or is dirty politics just describing the actions of some privileged white folk?
These white folk are just so unsure of themselves and their white privilege, they fear losing any power? These same white folks, then use said white power, and privilege – to attack, and vilify anyone they see in the way of their keeping power? Hell they even attack other white folk, later, a whole city of them. Funny how some of the most nasty comments are directed towards poor white folk, they got class hatred going on too?
Beyond the fact that this is happening in NZ and the power elite here is European patriarchal and caucasian, I don’t follow what you mean. Maybe you could be more specific eg give an example of the nasty comments directed at poor white folk.
There needs to be a better word for the cultural dysfunction here in NZ, and to some degree otherwise known as “European patriarchal”, than the standard broad brush of “white privilege”. I’m white, but not white enough (not that I’d want to be given the examples set for me) and know exactly what white privilege has cost me and can see it every day. To refuse entirely to be white in my world, I’d have to live on the street. The things I refuse to do, for example, emulate that goddamn cowardice that unpins NZ white culture, has cost me big time. Life makes cowards of us all, unexpectedly, but to hell with always and only swinging at he little guy. I often wander around muttering about goddamn whities, and I’m white.
Historically speaking, what we see here is not sourced from Patriarchy, or European in a specific sense. If we allow other cultures to trace their roots back to year dot, just to find something admirable by today’s political values, it is not consistent or fair to maintain the line that ol’ whitey may not do the same. If we restrict white culture to the past few hundred years, we’re already seeing how it was distorted from an earlier time. But if we go back a thousand or more, we find something very different.
We find a patriarchy that was more enlightened than any of the isms available today. Seemingly as an oxymoron, early patriarchy did not restrict women from owning or inheriting property or maintaining respected positions within a group. It didn’t kick them out on their ass if their husband died or left them. It did not seek to control their sexuality either. It allowed groups of people with limited wealth and power to band together to form equally representative groups in political matters, so that they were heard too – communism within a patriarchy. There were severe penalties against wealth and power attacking those not as powerful. Mental illness was known about and allowed for; xenophobia was not something they were interested in at all.
It’s not good enough to wave around patriarchy and men as some sort of inherent evil in the world, since forever. We need to call it what it is: Greed and avarice. Being white, or being a greedy whitey has a certain style, no doubt about it. Most of us can spot it. But whites don’t have a singular claim to greed with all other peoples just honest babes in the world. As most of you know, when a culture tries to appease and assimilate into white greed, things get really complicated, take a look at what it did to Indian culture, for an example. I saw evidence of that at the supermarket yesterday, and how many steps removed from the original event is that?! Yesterday too, I received a flyer from a company that was using aboriginal patterns and they’d included a long spiel about how it was ok, because the artists were being paid. No one comes out clean once they “dance with the devil” and unravelling it becomes impossible.
Something went badly wrong in white culture around the time the Saxons (not to imply blame) went on a rampage across their corner of the globe. But there are records, romanticised or not by time, of what was before then. What is ol’ whitey’s excuse for not appealing to the source values of his culture?
There is no more wrong with ‘whitey’ culture than there is with pretty much every other culture.
Your descriptions give your bias away
Nicky Hager has just told Wallace Chapman that his email source has refused him permission to release the original emails (Hager says he handed them back to the source so he could not be injuncted) because he (the source) is probably going to release them.
Hager has asked him not to release the personal stuff, but who knows what will be released?
This is dynamite-fun and games ahead.
Meanwhile Hager says he does not believe Key when he says he didn’t know what Ede was up to. (Duh!). It is the Key-Ede link that will destroy Key-this is what the media should be concentrating on, as Patrick Gower is doing in the Herald today. Funny how Ede has gone to ground.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310029
Gower is concentrating on the Ede’Key connection, but only because he’d be an ass if he didn’t. Hence the sprinkling throughout his article of some Key-esque bullshit.
From Gower’s article
“And so far this campaign there’s been all sorts of tricks to get to Key – ”
“F-John Key” chants
At an IMP event, probably orchestrated to some extent.
anti-Semitic graffiti
afaik there is zilch evidence tying this to the left.
the clever blues song Planet Key
A song written by an independent musician who afaik has no ties to any political party.
and even a burning effigy.
done by a small group of people who also have no affiliation to any political party.
None of those really worked and, as usual, Key has charged on through.
Probably because none of them were designed to hurt the Key brand in beltway terms. They all had different agenda that are probably illegible to many in the beltway.
There’s a lot of faux outrage from the Labour Party about dirty politics. Let’s face it, if five years of Labour’s emails were leaked there’d be a similar book.
Really? give us some examples then Paddy so we can make a valid comparison.
Agreed Weka-Labour needs to counter the Nats argument that “we are bad but they are just as bad”.
(Perhaps I should make it clear that I didn’t mean to imply that I supported the contents of the Gower article.)
Thanks BG, yes I didn’t think you were supporting Gower’s article, I just got a bit carried away with his bullshit. I agree that Hager’s statement about the emails is very interesting.
Interesting some of the quotes in this interview with key just before Hagar’s book was released
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392394/In-the-swing-of-things
So Ministers might feed things eh – what did you really know key-with-the-faulty-memory – it will come out.
Don’t laugh. A bit earlier in the piece he explained…
Personally I hope the revelations of how filthy key and the rest of them are destroy the political life of him and he has to scuttle off right quickly.
Nicky Hager said the same things first to Susan Wood on Q&A this morning .. worth a look but
footage not online at TVNZ yet but this written summary is:
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hager-can-t-reveal-original-material-kim-dotcom-not-source-6058922
My what a fascinating week. Shonkey always admired Muldoon and it seems perhaps he’s gone straight to the piggyplaybook in his use of the sis.
Unlike back then we have some new voices and this material from hager which didn’t exist back when Moyle was the target.
Liking the Labour campaign message, keep on that and the costed policies whilst others can examine this gov’t and their corrupt behaviour. Time for the NACT to reap what they’ve sown.
A rerun of the hollowmen is required before 20/9/14.
Why getting rid of sub editors is a bad idea No94: The New Zealand Herald.
An insider told The Sun newspaper: “You would be mad to try to get on a plane if you had a child abuse inquiry hanging over you.”
However, people who have been questioned under caution by police can apply to the US Embassy for special consideration for a visa and will be assed on an individual basis.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11310110
Wallace Chapman really comprehensive and good this morning on Radio NZ ‘Sunday Morning’ on issues related to Nicky Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’
….and a very good interview with Nicky Hager himself ( this latter yet to be available on audio)
… also an interview with an academic on the issues surrounding the legality /morality of journalists using hacked emails
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20145962/chris-bramwell-explores-dirty-campaign-claims
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20145963/marian-hobbs-blames-bloggers-for-new-level-of-nastiness
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20145974/dirty-politics-an-ethical-minefield
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/20145971/mediawatch-for-17-august-2014
My comment: Wallace Chapman is a very worthy successor to Chris Laidlaw …I am very pleasantly surprised
Nicky Hager Interview with Wallace Chapman on Radio NZ “Sunday Morning’
…well worth a listen for Hager’s reasons and ethics behind the book ‘Dirty Politics’ based on hacked emails…
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20145975/nicky-hager-dirty-politics
Kim Dotcom has analysed Whale Oil’s traffic and has concluded most of it is bot-generated, with only 30 percent coming from NZ. He posts a graphic of his findings in this tweet https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/500719306947059713
Nice! Lynn has done some analysis too in the past (tried to find it recently but couldn’t), but it’s handy to have the graphs laid out like that.
I have been thinking quite a lot about ‘safe’ and former ‘safe’ Labour seats, and of National’s increasing popularity within these electorates. Especially Auckland Central.
Nikki Kaye won the Auckland Central electorate in 2011 by a mere 700 odd votes. A very small majority. Before 2008 the seat had been safely in Labour’s hands since 1919. Jacinda Ardern was popular enough that she should have been able to bring the seat back safely into Labour’s hands. But the Greens Denise Roche won 2,903 votes, effectively splitting the left vote, and allowing National to take the seat, despite overall having less votes than that of the left.
My question is since it seems this election will come down to the wire, wouldn’t it be prudent for Labour and the Greens to work together on this one, for the Greens to withdraw their candidate and throw their support behind Ardern. It would be a tough sell admittedly given Roche’s support in certain areas, but Roche will not win that seat, it’s just not going to happen. So why bother running? Isn’t it counter productive to do so?
Labour and Greens need to show unity in Auckland Central, every seat counts.
The same in Ohariu and Epsom KJSone
KJS One 11.14
“wouldn’t it be prudent for Labour and the Greens to work together”
Yes. But that can’t be done because Labour wants to test themselves before the NZ public for their own individual league rating, even if it could lose them the election. Great strategic thinking.
Labour always taking the ideologically pure line.
For a certain length of time they might be ideologically pure, until the ideology changes.
Ideological purity has nothing to do with the constraints limiting Labour’s approach. Rather it is a bad mix of internal political rigidities and strategic disconnects.
@C olonial viper 1.23
“bad mix of internal political rigidities and strategic disconnects.”
Sounds like a colonoposcy? is called for. Situation serious.
Not when it’s a fight between parties who will get over the 5 percent mark. Then it’s a case of maximising party vote. The Greens gained nearly 8000 party votes in Auckland Central in 2011, they would likely see a reduction those numbers if they didn’t have a campaign team there. Strategic voting centres on getting minor parties over the mark to bring in coat-tailers. On a national level, Auckland Central doesn’t really matter as both Kaye and Ardern are already both going to return to Parliament.
That said, there is some mana to holding an electorate seat and I would much rather see it with the left.
Pete an advantage of electorates is they have a lot more funding and electorate MPs
can get a higher voter turnout.
I’m not sure why not having an electorate candidate means they can’t have a campaign team there.
It could be done that way. However, having a strong candidate provides a convenient and powerful focal point for events, leadership and media/journalists during an electorate campaign.
National makes a big deal of their “list MP for [electorate]”, don’t see why the Green’s can’t do the same. Obviously sitting MPs should be used to their best advantage during the election campaign, so they can still focus electorate-level events on that MP, just on the day you can’t vote for them on the electorate ballot.
In fact, it would mean the sitting MP could comfortably campaign across several adjoining electorates.
The GP pioneered using list MPs in electorates.
The point is still that standing people in seats you won’t win still raises the party vote. ie it give the GP more MPs overall.
I guess it’s conceivable that having a Green MP on the electorate vote would increase party votes for Greens. I’m specifically talking about when someone gets into the polling booth and sees the voting ballot, here.
It does also make the campaign electioneering easier to just say “I’m your electorate candidate” rather than some other vague thing about vote for Green party but not me personally.
There is at least a strong effect in Rongotai (Russel Norman) and Dunedin North (Metiria Turei). In both those electorates the Greens scored well over 20% party vote.
Yes, but is that because their name is on the ballot, or because they’re personally campaigning there? They can do the latter without the former, allowing other left wing parties to win the electorates while hopefully still garnering the same party vote. Or perhaps even more, since as I suggested they could then campaign in other nearby electorates without looking like carpet baggers.
Without a candidate it’s a bit tricky to appear at candidates’ meetings and also a bit tricky to get covered by local media.
is that because their name is on the ballot, or because they’re personally campaigning there?
I think it’s a bit of both.
Partly it’s because their names are on the ballot with a Green logo beside them.
I understand some people think that people are more likely to Party vote Green, if they see a GP logo included beside the list of electorate candidates.
“I understand some people think that people are more likely to Party vote Green, if they see a GP logo included beside the list of electorate candidates.”
It legitimises the party. Silly, I know, but in lots of ways we all are 😉
“I’m not sure why not having an electorate candidate means they can’t have a campaign team there.”
Of course they can have a campaign team there, it’s just not as effective. The GP have a lot of experience with this.
KJS, the official GP line this election is to go for the party vote (the implication is for voters to vote tactically on the electorate vote if they want to). I think it’s fair to make the case for the GP to step back in an electorate where their absence increases the chances of a left wing govt. But as I understand it that is not the case in Auckland (Waitakere was similar). Where the issue is about who wins the electorate and becomes the MP for that area, I think the GP is right to campaign hard in the seat because it increases their party vote. You have to remember that Labour are not doing the GP any favours either. Note that the GP has not stood candidates in the two crucial Māori seats (TTT and Waiariki), but then there are other crucial seats where it has stood candidates so who knows what is intended. By crucial I mean where the outcome of that electorate could affect the left’s ability to form a govt.
I wouldn’t suggest Greens don’t campaign for party vote, but rather that they focus entirely on that, and do not run an electorate candidate.
It’s true that both Kaye and Ardern will be returning to parliament regardless, but if the seat goes to Labour that still means another list MP can come in, and above all, a moral victory in reclaiming a seat that was Labour for the greatest part of a century.
Perhaps Labour feels they can unseat Kaye without support from the Greens, especially since the Greens lost 4.6% of their previous electorate vote and -1.3% the previous time, so there seems to be trend, but is it worth the risk? Labour and the Greens will need to form a coalition to govern, perhaps this is a case where Labour can offer the Green something concrete.
Thank you Pete, Weka and trickledrown for your reponses, interesting reads.
Standing someone in an electorate seat IS campaigning for the party vote, that’s why they do it (partly anyway). You get a much bigger presence if you stand someone in the electorate than if you don’t. The GP are experienced in this and know what they are doing. It might not suit Labour, but like I said Labour aren’t doing them any favours either.
Myself, I would prefer to see more accommodations made, but we have this history now that includes NZF fucking with MMP early on so it’s a bit skewed, and then Labour fucking with the GP which forced the GP to harden up and go for exactly what they want without having to consider Labour.
No, that’s not how it works.
The total number of MPs depends on the party vote. Electorate MPs automatically get seats, and then the list MPs are used to “top-up” the allocation until they reach equivalence with their party vote.
So, say Labour got 30% of the vote, which entitles them to 36 MPs total. If 25 of those MPs are electorate MPs (and Jacinda lost the seat), they get another 11 list MPs, amongst them would be Jacinda due to her list ranking (so there are 10 ‘other’ list MPs). If Jacinda wins the electorate, they get 26 electorate MPs and their total number of MPs remains unchanged at 36, so they get 10 ‘other’ list MPs.
So the outcomes are identical. It is only when the party vote is equal or less than the number of electorate won, OR the person who wins the electorate seat is low down on the party list, where the winner of an electorate seat matters for the makeup of Parliament.
KJS
Not clear from your post but it looks like you are confused on mmp? If labour is entitled to (say)35 seats because of hte part vote, winning an electorate will in fact mean one less list MP, not one more. They would be entitled to 35 – whether they are list or electorate is irrelevant.
If you are confused about MP I think that is a great illustration of the problems with our version of MMP. You, who are obvoiusly keenly interested in politics, and partisan still dont understand how MMP works. What hope for the average punter?
“If you are confused about MP I think that is a great illustration of the problems with our version of MMP.”
What other “versions” of MMP are there? The whole point of MMP is that it has locally-elected representatives but that the Parliament is determined by the national party vote. That’s actually what “Mixed-Member Proportional” means.
well you know what I mean. I should have said PR instead of MMP.
I’d just like a simpler system. Maybe MMP with no thresholds and no coat tailing. I don’t like the inequity that its possible to create with the threshold and with electorate seats.
I think you’re being a little off colour there. It is evident from what has been said that yes, I was mistaken in thinking that winning an electorate seat would result in an additional MP, but I don’t think that means I am confused about MMP on the whole. I don’t think it was an unreasonable assumption for someone not familiar with the intricacies of MMP to think that you have a party vote which determines X number of list MPs and then electorate MP’s are tact on to the total.
Despairing at the ‘hopes’ of the average punter based upon on a simple mistake of one passionate young man is quite unwarranted.
I don’t think so. I think the majority of “punters out there in punter-land” (to quote Don Brash) don’t really understand how MMP works, including the ones that think they do. Many probably understand the broad strokes, but like yourself, get hung-up on the details.
Thankfully the system rather protects against this, in the fact that generally it’s only the party vote that matters. Once they abolish the coat-tailing rule and drop the threshold, it’ll matter even less what the average voter understands, or doesn’t, about how the system actually works.
Akld Central is super critical due to boundary changes that shifted large blocks of Ardern’s support.
Kiaora,
Rather unusual for Stuff online but there is this piece of satire written under the heading John Key’s Diary. The only mention, I might add, of Nicky Hager’s book on the site.
I would try to post a link but am posting this from my phone and am already crosseyed with the effort and besides I am in the middle of a bush about to go for a walk.
It’s not “unusual” at all.
Steve Braunias has been doing this series of ‘secret diaries’ every week for months, about a figure in the news that week, usually politicians. He’s done ones for Cunliffe, Colin Craig, Jamie Whyte and McCully, amongst others, all of which I’ve read on stuff.
Here’s the one on Whyte, which is very much worth a read: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10338356/The-secret-diary-of-Jamie-Whyte
“The only mention, I Might add, of Nicky Hager’s book on the site.”
Not at all, you clearly haven’t looked very hard: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391846/Blogging-money-and-blurred-lines
They’re usually pretty good too.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392141/The-secret-diary-of-John-Key
Kiaora Lanthanide
I always do appreciate your anal retentive replies even when directed my way. Perhaps because I am not so retentive that I did miss reading link 435 on page 7689.
Now, don’t disappoint me by not linking to every Hager item on the front page.
More importantly, why didn’t you mention these dairies before, as obviously, they’re a good read.
I look forward to the link which says that you did.
I am sitting on a log in the middle of nowhere thinking; I am hungry, where’s the nearest shop.
Don’t make sweeping claims about “the only story on the site” if you haven’t actually spent the time to check that. The story I linked to, at the time of writing this, is 4th in the politics section on the home page. Earlier in the day it was the 2nd or 3rd story. Hardly “page 7689” or “link 435”.
Because I actually have found most of them to not be very funny. The John Key one is ok. I particularly like the Whyte one, which is why I linked to it now.
I don’t think I’m under any obligation to post every link I find interesting on stuff.co.nz to this blog; in fact I think people would be rather irritated if I did. I’m not really under any obligation to post anything on this site.
Kiaora Lanthanide
Here I am thinking that you are about informing the greater left about other opinions, but apparently not, your particular viewpoint counts more. If I find something particularly interesting to this forum, I would share it. We call it tatau tatau, an expression of togetherness.
But you are absolutely right – you don’t have to share a thing.
Stuff is usually presented by the general left as corporately driven. Its articles lean to the right and conversely the left is in the cold. That occasionally some article bears fruit in otherwise infertile dirt should be enjoyed and not choked on.
Now have the last word as I am about to have a coffee and cake.
someone’s obviously never in need of laxatives
Kiaora once was Tim
Are you recommending a course of treatment? And, to whom? And for what reason?
Actually the point behind my reply to you was rather an admonishment against hyperbole, than anything else. It irritates me.
But I have also discovered, reading several other blogs over the last few days due to Dirty Politics (generally TS is all I read), that a lot of people actively avoid Whaleoil or The Standard because they consider both sites to be full of crazy partisan loons. Personally I don’t think The Standard is full of crazy loons (there are of course, some), but hyperbolic comments such as yours (regardless of their merit, or the intent behind them) doesn’t help the perception that people here are crazy. So I like to point it out to their authors where I can. I wish no ill-will whatsoever.
Kiaora Lanthanide
Instead of saying “site” I should have said “front page” because I was looking for anything on Stuff to suggest they were giving oxygen to Hager’s book. At the time I could see nothing on the front page to say otherwise. I am not a great fan of stuff but did click onto the diary thing out of curiosity.
I am sorry for over-reacting.
I confess I don’t watch the broadcast media much but it puzzles me that apart from the bit about hacking Labour’s website we don’t seem to have seen anyone looking to Nact party presidents etc for comment. After all they now employ Jason Ede don’t they?
Are we alse seeing more women interviewers because they are unlikely to frequent the gentlemen’s club?
The Nat Party President is well tainted, do a bit of looking, restraining oders etc.
I always rather though that that was the case ‘a tainted president’ yet they continue to hang onto him. Pity the public right to know takes a back seat.
However, you would have though there would be some party spokesperson fronting up even if it was only to claim the moral high ground “It came from us”.
Does anyone still care about GMO’s in our food supply? They are still around and I’m guessing more so if we sign the TPPA.
http://farmwars.info/?p=13246#more-13246
i prefer this view on GMO
The lack of Right Wing Spin Bullies on this site today is is very peculiar given their indefensible circumstances !
I believe they are regrouping for a new strategy being worked out over the weekend ready for another onslaught tomorrow !
Berend de Boer Joyce Key and Hooton will be burning the Midnight Oil to work out a strategy to shift the blame of their corruption!
Indeed – Infused/Puckish/Jamie Lee Hooten et all have extended morning prayers and are busy learning their lines – they’ve got to get it right – loading bullshit on bullshit doesn’t seem to be working too well. There’s “From the Right ….. and From the Right ….” on NinetoNoon tomorrow, as well as those in-depth, incisive breakfast TV ‘spots’
Slater has been cut adrift he will be the fall guy as he is to toxic to be trusted
“While Slater was having his photo taken for this article, a text arrived – from Justice Minister Judith Collins. He wouldn’t reveal its content, but exclaimed that it was 4am in New Zealand and wondered out loud what she was doing up.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391846/Blogging-money-and-blurred-lines
I guess Judith is an early bird.
OR Slater could have just been big noting.
Who would know.
Who pays the piper on stuff News had a big dig at Big donors extracting favours from National !
Dongwha Liu”s connections to John Key and Judith Collins connections both with Orivda !
The Electoral commission should be looking at the$6.3 million in secret donations to New Zealand.
The Stuff article calls it corruption and it should have no place in NewZealand!
can’t link on not so smartphone!
I see that slug is about to “reveal” who hacked his computer.
My guess is that he’ll pin it on KDC or someone close to him.
The whale is beached and and flailing around looking for water somewhere near the dead sea!
As Rob pointed out Team Key continue to pour Oil on a fire to try and calm thongs down showing how desperate they are!
So if Slater gets who has hacked him wrong the flames will turn into an inferno!
Steve Braunias’s Satire is pure gold on Merrill Lynch Bangster John Key.
The smiling assassin feeding a sack of raw meat to Slippery Slater Crusher Collins in the sewer that runs under parliament while the smiling assassin becomes the laughing assassin!
I Can(sarc)see why John(sarc)Key doesn’t any Tiolets on Plant Key, So he can climb out of the sewer he has been wallowing in with whale oil!
From blubber boy’s orifice
Yeah right.
TED Talk: Why ordinary people need to understand power
My vote compass result was Green
http://tvnz.co.nz/votecompass
Funnythat
NZ quote for the history from the Prime Minister:
“I don’t know, you’d have to ask whoever is responsible for that. But it’s not me”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392956/Jason-Ede-still-has-Beehive-access
This stuck out too:
Eh?
See I would’ve thought that with all the events of the last week, with all of the questions about Ede and his ties to the PM, and all the potential his actions have to damage the PM, Keys would’ve had someone find out everything there is to know about exactly what Ede is is up to right now and made sure he wasn’t doing anything that might be a bad look for Keys and National.
But hey, what do I know about image-driven control freaks?
I wonder if when Ede moved from the PM’s office to the National Party he sought and received a reference from his boss?
I’m not sure when Ede became a National Party employee but I presume they hired him because of the skills he demonstrated while working in the PM’s office.
After all, it’s election year and those particular skills may have been thought to be very useful to ‘bolster’ an election campaign?
It beggars belief that John Key * says * he doesn’t know.
Amounts of cash on left by staff on desks around the office had not been taken either.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310180
Are the oravida offices a honey trap?
I am saddened by the love fest arising from the posting by a police informant and especially one who is quite probably a sex criminal as well. Anyone worth listening to knows how careful and thorough Nicky Hager is. He doesn’t need a reference from someone who made a living off lies and betrayal.
Agreed.
Agree 100%.
Totally unnecessary and in poor taste.
I agree. Some have gone over the top… but lets be clear that just because others – including me – were willing to give him credit for submitting the post here (and I have no knowledge of sexual criminality) it hardly constituted a “love fest”.
I agree too.
“Anyone worth listening to knows how careful and thorough Nicky Hager is.”
That is it in a nutshell.
TV3 News ! 🙂
Yep good stuff Karol. Nats 47.5 Lab 29.0 Gr 13.0 IMP 2.0 NZF 4.6. GAME ON!
Did you notice how happy and PM-like Cunliffe looked and how panicky Key looked?
What a load of rubbish that IPSOS poll is.
One News, slightly different – margin of error stuff.
What were the numbers on TV1?
Labour, Greens & Nats down slightly.
Nats about 50%
Labour 26%
Greens about
13%?11% – they translated it to 13 seats in the HouseIMP big winners – up to 4%
NZF below 5%
Awesome to see IMP moving up. This election is shaping up to be legendary.
Down .5% to 2%. That’s legendary sh!t right there mars.
And poll taken before The Book apparently. Looking good.
Same poll by TV3 in the 2011 (vs. the one tonight )was:
National 57.4 (47.5)
Act 1.6 (0.3)
MP 0.8 (0.8)
UF 0 (0.2)
Right 59.8 (48.8)
NZ First 1.9 (4.6)
Labour 26.6 (29)
Greens 9.8 (13)
Mana 0 (2)
Left 36.4 (44)
Gap between right and left in 2011 was 23.4, now it’s 4.6 – wow, says it all!
Given TV3 was the second most accurate (Roy Morgan most accurate) in 2011 election, it is getting very very close!!!
Very nice comparison Leroy.
Now a good Roy Morgan (which is imminent) would put the icing on the cake.
– Andrea Vance
Nice opening from Andrea Vance. There’s hope for pressure journalism in this country yet.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392956/Jason-Ede-still-has-Beehive-access
Cunliffe said on Radiolive (during an extraordinary speech about ‘the book’) that he had a staffer attempt ringing Ede & it went thru the parliamentary switchboard. So, still on the payroll it seems.
So are National using Charles Finny now that the usual suspects have been outed by Hager?
Left a post on Whaleoil decrying the death threats directed at Cameron and suggesting I would assist him in reporting these to the police….his moderators removed my post. Why? Why would Cameron not want to report these numerous threats he has been receiving?It’s very simple to track back and identify where online threats originate….but why on earth would he not be interested?
Probably because he realises that there is this thing called ‘karma’. And you cannot spend the last 6 months acting like a wannbe brownshirt without it coming back to bite you on the ass.
Feel sorry for the kids though, they never asked for Slater to be their father. If he was my dad, I would hang myself.
Victimizing himself!
his txt claims are laughable!
When the real person who handed Hager releases the real emails and himself all Slaters slipperyness will have him going to Alaska next For a lovin with Sarah Palin!
Have read the book
It is jawdropping
Another thing about it, that I haven’t seen talked about alot, is the jacking up of National Candidate selections for the electorates. And also the man called Simon Lusk.
Seriously, all Members of the National Party need to read this book. IF they had any delusions about their fine upstanding party of gentlemen and ladies, they might be in for a shock
Might be a bit of stuff going down within its hallowed walls methinks !!!!!
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/17/kim-dotcom-megaupload-new-zealand-interview
Comments are interesting
If the leadership doesn’t want to answer any of the questions raised by “Dirty Politics” and Slater, then perhaps the journalists should start picking off individual National MP’s for their opinions regarding the closeness of the likes of Slater, Ede and co to their beloved party.
I bet many of them are as appalled as Jo.Bloggs is over this. Saw one less than happy looking electorate MP striding for her plane to Wellington this evening. May have been that she had just seen the latest poll on tonight’s news but suspect she may also be feeling the affects of having to be connected with Slater and co.