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Open Mike 18/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 18th, 2018 - 111 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

111 comments on “Open Mike 18/06/2018 ”

    • chris73 1.1

      Well I wouldn’t like to suggest that theres been a lot more strikes and suggested strike actions since a change of government happened but it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out

      • Craig H 1.1.1

        A lot of pent-up frustration and low wage increases for the best part of 10 years will do that.

      • JanM 1.1.2

        I suspect it is because at last they have a government that might listen to their concerns

      • Enough is Enough 1.1.3

        It is time to reclaim some balance in New Zealand industrial relations after getting hammered by employers since 1991.

        Increased industrial action is a positive sign. Workers no longer standing for tiny wage increases and bully boy tactics from employers

  1. Ad 2

    Norway wants to start commercial electric airplane flights:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-17/tesla-loving-nation-now-wants-to-be-a-pioneer-in-electric-planes

    Norway is the largest exporter of oil and gas in Europe, but they also plan to cut emissions by 40%.

    Helpfully they have few ethical quandaries about their continued economic, environmental and social success.

    They are not claiming long-haul electric flights will ever be viable, just the short ones to start with.

    • chris73 3.1

      I can’t see many people being sad about this

      • James 3.1.1

        There were a lot on here who thought they were fantastic.

        As opposed to the joke they were.

        At least they helped kill off mana.

        • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1

          These things are relative. They were infinitely better than the then government, and offered some prospect of justice for Dotcom for the abuses he suffered at the hands of the Key kleptocracy.

          But as a booster for that sleazy pack of scum you feel threatened by anyone not succumbing to illegal shit like armed raids on an unarmed household.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

            Are you claiming the party was a means for Dotcom to avoid due process in the legal system?

            • adam 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Make a point gosman, your attempts to put words in peoples mouths is really disengious, as well as tiresome. It really is quite a dishonest way to have a discussion.

              • Robert Guyton

                I agree with Adam about “Are you saying..? Is your belief..? Stop framing the argument through another’s supposed view, Gosman. It’s boring and a waste of our time.

                • OnceWasTim

                  Such is the life of the ideoligically aligned NaCT Party spin meister – on duty from dawn til dusk and overnight.
                  I’ve seen Harcourt’s Real Estate agents who’ve given up for less. (At least they had a questioning mind – going forward)

              • Gosman

                I asked a question to clarify this point “…and offered some prospect of justice for Dotcom for the abuses he suffered at the hands of the Key kleptocracy”.

                Perhaps you can give your interpretation on what this means given that to me it suggests one of the points of the party was to counter the legal proceedings Dotcom was facing at the time.

                • adam

                  Really, you don’t do it all the time? You don’t ask questions to put words in peoples mouths? Then you never get all huffy when someone points out your dishonest way of debating?

                  Seriously gosman, you got a couple of day ban for that diengious style of yours. I see you still doing it.

                • Robert Guyton

                  “Huffy”
                  And no, perhaps I won’t. Adam’s right.

            • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Certainly not – as subsequent court rulings showed, he was illegally denied it.

              • Gosman

                If he was illegally denied it what is the current government doing about it considering they could intervene?

                • Stuart Munro

                  You would have to ask them, Gosman.

                  Dawn raids don’t seem to be part of it however.

                  How about you go after the guilty and leave the bystanders alone for a change.

                  • Gosman

                    How about you start asking the hard questions of the side that you support for a change?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      These are the same fools that took about a decade to come round on Zaoui – they’re not about to risk anything for Dotcom.

                      But as I said – Key abused the powers of his office, illegally spying on and seizing Dotcom’s property, with the intention of facilitating an illegal prosecution by US interests.

                      Why are you such a pathetic apologist for Key, Gosman? That was the shit the Nazis pulled to glom Jewish wealth – not something to tolerate for a heartbeat – but you did.

                    • Gosman

                      I’ve never been a rah rah for Key. If you’ve followed my comments on this blog you should know this. I just think he was better than the left wing alternatives as evidenced by the current rabble in power.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      You never called him on any of his numerous dishonesties or abuses of power – but you want to call the coalition on not helping Dotcom? That’s a double standard too far.

                    • Gosman

                      I criticised Key all the time. I just criticised him for different things to what you generally criticised him for. In some areas we might have had common cause but certainly not on the Dotcom issue. I personally don’t think there was any political interference in the Dotcom case. If there was then it would be very serious and as such I would expect it to be a priority of the current government to sort out. Given they aren’t doing this it would tend to support my view rather than yours.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      “all the time” eh.

                      So you’ll be able to cite a couple – I don’t recall any.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      If there was then it would be very serious and as such I would expect it to be a priority of the current government to sort out. Given they aren’t doing this it would tend to support my view rather than yours.

                      No, it actually doesn’t. There’s several possible meanings two of which are:

                      1. There’s simply no evidence of wrong doing despite the prima facie evidence that there was. This doesn’t mean that wrong didn’t happen – just that the evidence to prove it doesn’t exist.
                      2. The present government is following the ‘legal’ position that governments aren’t responsible for what happens under their watch in government departments because they’re not supposed to get involved in day to day operations.
                      3. They actually believe that Key et al did nothing wrong.

          • alwyn 3.1.1.1.2

            “illegal shit like armed raids on an unarmed household”

            I had almost forgotten about that. Not surprising I suppose that one tends to forget things that were actually more than 10 years ago.
            It was certainly absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the Police and Government of the time.
            What was the Government so worried about?
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Zealand_police_raids

            • solkta 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Dotcom’s home was invaded by armed police in 2012.

              • alwyn

                No. The raids were in 2007. You must be thinking about something else. 2012 was when the trials took place and only a few people ended up being charged and there were guilty verdicts on only a few trivial arms offenses.
                Then in 2013 the raids were found to be illegal and in 2014 the poor old Police Commissioner had to go and apologise for them.
                The responsible politicians were by then keeping well out of the way. The one who was ultimately responsible for the disgraceful activities had by then fled the country and was tucked away in New York. Never did admit to doing anything wrong and never apologised.

                • solkta

                  Dotcom’s home was invaded by armed police in 2012.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Hey Alwyn, everything else you believe is wrong too.

                  Dotcom wins settlement from police over the 2012 dawn raid…

                  Are you starting to understand why you’re known as a liar yet?

                  • alwyn

                    You aren’t talking about the same thing are you?
                    I was talking about the dreadful affair in the Urewera area. They were certainly the worst case of Police behaviour in my lifetime, with the possible exception of 1951.
                    If you had read my link you should have realised that.
                    But you really don’t read properly do you? Why do you worry about minor affairs and ignore the serious misbehaviour?
                    You see why you are known as an idiot yet?

                    • solkta

                      You are the only one in this thread talking about the terror raids. You started by replying to Stuart Munro who was making the point that the police raided Dotcom’s home all military style for no good reason.

            • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.2.2

              “What was the Government so worried about?”

              Not a damned thing. It was a quid pro quo for a trade deal they’ve wanted forever – and, as with Jenny taking the tariffs off, achieved precisely nothing.

              Except to crush NZ’s emerging cyberlocker sector, and destroy Dotcom’s life and NZ’s reputation as a law abiding country.

            • Daveosaurus 3.1.1.1.2.3

              Kim Dotcom’s home was raided on 20th January 2012. I would have thought that even a Fifty Cent Army member such as yourself would be able to figure out that 2012 is less than ten years before 2018.

        • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.2

          https://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/simon-bridges

          End of a political party

          I can’t see many people being sad about this

          There were a lot of people who thought they were fantastic

          As opposed to the joke they were

          At least they helped kill of ACT.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.2.1

            I agree with you on this, it’ll be Judith Time!

            Also a poem I just created for Judith, its my best yet:

            I think that I shall never see a politician as lovely as Judy

            Judy, whose hungry mouth is prest against the earth’s sweet flowing breast (might be a tad sexy)

            Judy that looks at God all day, and lifts her motherly arms to pray;

            Judy that may in Summer wear a nest of defeated opponents in her hair;

            Upon whose bosom snow has lain; Who intimately lives with rain. (Thats pretty hot)

            Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make Judy

            • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.2.1.1

              That’s really quite impressive PR – have you considered leading the Conservative Party?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Unfortunately I’m the shy and retiring type so politics wouldn’t suit me 🙂

                • Tricledrown

                  poetic repartee.
                  Unfortunately that would make you a perfect leader especially with your unhealthy obsession or crush on Collin’s

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Unfortunately I have some ideas that I don’t think the Conservatives would like 🙂

                  • ankerawshark

                    There once was the member for Papakura,
                    Whose husband worked for Orivida
                    When hubbys milk was delayed
                    She didn’t care if NZ paid
                    She went and dined to ensure “hey no problem”

                    Now if this sorry tale you doubt.
                    Its time to to read all about…
                    For dirty politics was the book
                    That showed Judith as a crook
                    sometimes love is blind as a…………………………..

                    Sorry PR…..just have to tell you the bad news on your crush

            • JanM 3.1.1.2.1.2

              Could you do another verse and mention her eyebrows? And you could include some swamp kauri as well, perhaps – lol.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Sorry but inspiration doesn’t come that easy 🙂

                • Robert Guyton

                  Just once a day, Pucky, then you’re spent?
                  Can’t be that difficult, googling ‘poem’.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Are you suggesting I…plagiarise?

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Who ever did you get that idea from 🙂

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Fine I’ll prove it then, here’s my magnum opus and you’ll see how similar it is to my other works

                      Roses are red
                      Violets are blue
                      I love Judith
                      and so should you

                      I think you’ll find that’s a pretty compelling argument

              • Robert Guyton

                It could begin; “Up to her eyebrows…”

                Up to her eyebrows in muck
                Judith is sh*t out of luck…

                • Robert Guyton

                  Up to her eyebrows in mire
                  Judith should quickly retire…

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I like where this is potentially going…

                  • Robert Guyton

                    I’m now thinking…
                    Those eyebrows are in dire need of plucky
                    Perhaps Jude could call upon …
                    Dammit! Can’t get the rhyme!

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Got me stumped as well

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Jude’s past is decidedly muckish
                      She needs service from someone named…
                      Dammit!
                      Completely dried up!
                      (stumped – gotta give you some credit for that…I suppose…)

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      The poetry doesn’t seem to be working so I thought I’d “branch” out into comedy writing

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Judith’s a never ending source of material for you then.

            • Philg 3.1.1.2.1.3

              I think this ‘po em’ has been ‘appropriated’from someone else. Where did you get it from?

              • solkta

                Trees
                By Joyce Kilmer

                I think that I shall never see
                A poem lovely as a tree.

                A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
                Against the earth’s sweet flowing breast;

                A tree that looks at God all day,
                And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

                A tree that may in Summer wear
                A nest of robins in her hair;

                Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
                Who intimately lives with rain.

                Poems are made by fools like me,
                But only God can make a tree.

                https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/12744/trees

        • Bearded Git 3.1.1.3

          i thought they would get 7%….but the fjk video and the moment of truth stuffed that

    • soddenleaf 3.2

      Tuned into NR politics at 11 this morning. Seems Hooten was also reliving the times, start a rant on how unstable Peters is. Like any analyst worth his salt can see Labour learnt the lesson, National deputy rolled his leader and Peters has been living off the victimhood every since. Every time Hooten re tells this piece of propaganda I swear NZF jumps in the polls.

      • alwyn 3.2.1

        “Every time Hooten re tells this piece of propaganda I swear NZF jumps in the polls.”.
        Is that what is doing it? I have been at a loss to understand how Winston First could possibly still be up at the 2.4% they are in the Newshub/Reid poll. On their behaviour they should be under 1%. Below ACT in fact.
        Keep quiet Hooton. Let Winnie sink beneath the surface of the swamp.

    • ianmac 4.1

      James. The issue is really over the underfunding of Health, over the last 9 years. Sadly some innocents who tried to manage the deficits were hurt. And more sadly some losers try to make capital out of the mess left behind.
      You are like those who revel in someone else’s car wreck

      • james 4.1.1

        You may say that is the issue – but this *is* and issue in its own right. All you are doing is deflecting by refusing to discuss this issue in its own right.

        Clark deserves everything he gets on this.

        • Hanswurst 4.1.1.1

          Considering Clark’s response towards the end of the article, it would appear either that you didn’t read it to the end, or that you are simply happy to give everyone except him the benefit of any doubt, because he is a Labour politician. Neither would surprise me in the slightest.

        • Gabby 4.1.1.2

          Be interesting to see if details emerge as to what a joy Rabin was to work with jimbo.

    • AB 4.2

      Oh look – the arsonists attacking the fire-fighters again.
      The usual attack lines are:
      – you’re not putting it out fast enough
      – it’s not as big as you say it is (i.e. I only lit a small fire)
      – Why are you getting angry and mean and hurting my feelings
      National – vandalism on a grand scale since 1949.

  2. mauī 6

    Just a strange coincidence I’m sure…

    Rodney worst ranked prancer 5 out of 6 weeks.
    Seymour worst ranked dead hoofer 6 out of 8 weeks.

    ACT leaders, made for shit tv.

    • james 6.1

      “ACT leaders, made for shit tv.”

      And yet they keep on getting voted back.

      That would indicate that the people disagree with you.

      Next you will be telling us WHY they voted the way they did.

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        Pity, I suppose. Some would vote them back on for comedic value, others for more perverse reasons; bread, circus.

      • You_Fool 6.1.2

        I am not convinced the people (indicating many) disagree at all… I think Seymour is being kept afloat by just a tiny number of people with way too much money… #DWTSNZ is not a popularity contest, it is a rich person contest… who has the most $$$ to waste

      • AB 6.1.3

        Yep. I’ll tell you why.
        They don’t vote for Seymour – it could be anybody. They vote to give National an extra, unearned vote in Parliament from a pretend party.

    • AB 6.2

      Maybe rugged individualists who ooze ‘Personal Responsibility’ from every pore just don’t do dancing – which is sort of wimpy and collaborative?

  3. Booker 7

    Interesting read from Nicky Hager on the effects of the police raid on his house: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/06/17/124563/what-an-attack-on-journalism-feels-like

    • Robert Guyton 7.1

      “They also paid damages, which I am regarding cheerfully as a NZ Police Writing Fellowship.”

      🙂

    • Anne 7.2

      Quote from link provided by Booker:

      When I decided to research and write about Slater and his associates, I knew I was taking a personal risk. They were well known for personal attacks and smears. They have hurt many people. I expected retaliation. But I knew what I was taking on and felt strongly that this boil needed lancing. I did not expect the most difficult and time consuming repercussions would come from the police.

      Of course, the instruction to establish Rawshark’s identity at any cost came from the top of the political tree. The message would have been ‘sent’ in such a way it could not be traced back to the then PM or his office, but police at a senior level would have been in no doubt what they were expected to do.

      It was a case of political interference at the highest level, and we all know it was not the only time it happened during the reign of the last government. It also happened under the Muldoon regime – probably to an even greater degree.

      • james 7.2.1

        “Of course, the instruction to establish Rawshark’s identity at any cost came from the top of the political tree.”

        As you say with nothing to back it up – zero evidence etc.

        But “Of course” it happened right?

        Your tin foil hat is slipping.

        • Anne 7.2.1.1

          I expected you to drop in with something along that line.

          Only blind bats can’t see what everyone else with an ounce of knowledge, grey matter and maybe past personal experiences can see. You mate are such a bat.

          • Stuart Munro 7.2.1.1.1

            James’s ability to forgive the wrongs of the Key administration rivals that of Christian martyrs – it’s just a shame his hypocrisy excludes everyone else.

          • Barfly 7.2.1.1.2

            Oh he knows it alright – It just suits his politics to lie about it.

          • Gosman 7.2.1.1.3

            If this was indeed the case it is a gross abuse of the political system Anne. What is the current government doing to look in to it and ensure it doesn’t happen again?

            • One Two 7.2.1.1.3.1

              Argh, yes Gosman…

              The political system is a gross abuse…as are the dominant systems crushing the life and soul from living beings…

              No government will.be changing it, as they are beholden and merged to the Westminster System…such that they are indistinguishable from it…

              Tell us all about derivatives again…counter party risk and all that…

              Perhaps you’re not the same operator of Gosman who pretended to understand economics and finance…

              Try anyway…

            • Anne 7.2.1.1.3.2

              Indeed it was a gross abuse of the system Gosman. But when you have a police hierarchy acquiescing to the govt. on the matter and a MSM too lily-livered to investigate properly – and a large section of the voting population who neither understood the issue nor bothered to read the book – then there was little could be done about it. What is worse Key went on TV and radio… blatantly lied and the MSM let him off the hook.

              I expect this government will eventually take measures to try an ensure nothing like it could happen again, but they have rather more important matters like housing, health and education to attend to first.

              Btw, the Winston Peters saga re- his superannuation over-payments is another case in point. This time it was ‘senior bureaucrats’ who leaked the information to two former cabinet ministers which was also an abuse of their power and position.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 7.2.1.1.3.3

              Agreed, in the light of the Police’s fulsome apology (and tax payer-funded compensation) to Nicky Hager, ideally the Police and/or politicians will:

              (1) Investigate both why and how senior police justified their illegal activities at the time, and

              (2) Work towards ensuring that such abuses of power don’t reoccur.

              The apology was great, but more analysis is required to avoid repeats. The Urewera ‘anti-terrorism’ raids are another example of abuse of police power, although any political motives were less obvious.

              • Gosman

                What were the political motives in the Dotcom case?

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Not familiar with that case. Do you know of any public apology or expression of regret regarding the ‘handling’ of the Dotcom case?

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/98549323/kim-dotcom-reaches-settlement-with-police-over-2012-hollywoodstyle-dawn-raid?rm=m

                  Hmmm, is it all Police forces that are slow learners, or just ours?

                • David Mac

                  Dancing to Uncle Sam’s tune. A call to Key’s people from the FBI hierarchy, ‘Buddies downunder, we need a hand.’

                  Political parties in the US are funded by the same small clique of elite that own the bulk of the copyright Dotcom was allegedly exploiting.

                  • David Mac

                    When the Kennedys hit the White House JFK’s brother Bob set off to try and put a lid on organised crime. Minor in the grand scheme of things, but there was immense media/public interest and concern.

                    They introduced a raft of new legislation full of fishhooks designed to snare the Tony Sopranos of the headlines.

                    These US laws never went away. Dotcom finds himself on Federal charges of racketeering. His problems are bigger than pinching a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Mega started to pay cash to the people that uploaded the most content to their ‘Download Anything Here’ site. In doing so, he fell foul of those same laws that were put in place to collar Gotti et al.

                    When the final curtain comes down….I don’t think the FBI lose very often.

            • mary_a 7.2.1.1.3.4

              Right, so after all that went down in Dirty Politics Gosman (7.2.1.1.3), involving the previous National government, you are saying the onus lies with this government to look into it to make sure it doesn’t happen again?

              And what about those National MPs and supporters involved in DP? One incident even involved a Labour public servant being threatened! How about making sure these thugs are held accountable for their part? Their accountability just might prevent a similar occurrence taking place!

              Oh that’s right, National doesn’t do accountability does it?

              • Gosman

                Ummm… I’m asking the same question as you. Why doesn’t the current Government ensure those responsible are held to account? It is in their power you realise don’t You?

                • Hanswurst

                  You know, Gosman, like you, I would prefer to see the current government take steps to prevent any recurrence of the Dirty Politics situation. You know what, though? The best way to make that work would be if the senior National Party figures involved were to unpack their dirty dirty laundry, own up and explain all the ins and outs of what they did and who enabled it to work as it did. If you were to advocate for that, give your vote to those opposing National, and encourage all your friends and acquaintances to do the same, you might have something to say. Until then, all you are doing is being a cock.

            • Tricledrown 7.2.1.1.3.5

              Gooseman the problem has been solved Key has gone .

        • ianmac 7.2.1.2

          ““Of course, the instruction to establish Rawshark’s identity at any cost came from the top of the political tree.”
          “zero evidence”

          Dishonest people tend to know how to avoid detection.
          Emails? Nah.
          Witnesses? Nah.
          Letters? Nah.
          Discussions? Nah.
          However, a short sharp verbal discussion in an isolated space to a person with powerl? Yeah.

          Put the teacup saga and the Rawshark saga and the Dirty Politics saga together and 1 + 1= 2. Aha.

        • Ankerawshark 7.2.1.3

          Care to speculate James as to why the police acted in this way

  4. Sabine 8

    do people here get paid to engage gosman, wayne, james and the others ?

    How much and where does one apply, i know a few people who would happily fling shit about to make some cash. cause thats all it is, flinging shit about stinking the joint up for shits n giggles.

  5. alwyn 9

    @sabine
    Here are a couple of places you could start.
    [email protected]#parliament.govt.nz
    [email protected]#parliament.govt.nz
    You may have to wait rather a long time for a reply from the first though.
    I am also not sure whether the second one is still used. I heard a rumour that since the Unfortunate Event at Parliament last year he has changed his address to
    [email protected]#bellamys.bar
    I’d stick to enquiring to Winston of course. He has an absolute veto over any Government appointment and he doesn’t take kindly to people who don’t appear to understand his total control of all matters.

    • ianmac 9.1

      I believe Winston has largely given up drinking and smoking.
      Pregnancy calls for good healthy living.

      • alwyn 9.1.1

        Did you actually read those two sentences before you hit submit? I certainly hope so because your juxtaposing them gave me the best laugh I’ve had all day and I love the thought that it was deliberate.
        Winston changing his living style because he is pregnant?
        The mind boggles.

        • Pete 9.1.1.1

          The mind boggles all right, boggles that you didn’t get it, couldn’t get the reference and that anyone could be that stupid as to flaunt a blind stupidity matching their blind partisanship.

          • alwyn 9.1.1.1.1

            That’s nice dear. I’m sorry that your dyspepsia is bothering you though.
            Why don’t you cut back on the booze and try a nice warm cup of Milo instead?
            I’m sure it will cure your heartburn and you will feel much better.
            Or not. Perhaps you just like being an arsehole.

            • adam 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Admit it alwyn, the joke went right over your head. Instead of copping to that (the whole personal responsibility thing, which by the way you keep banging on about – funny never applies to you though), you went the whole personal attack.

              Boy it’s going to be a long 9 years.

  6. Ad 10

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  7. Eco Maori 11

    Good morning Newshub Rodger enjoyed his time on Dancing with the Stars.
    trump is a muppet were are the immigrants in Europe that his country created to go into the Sea I can see his grubby hands on Alot of thing happening to tangata who oppose his dumb ass views going down the man loves have all the levers he got and he doesn’t give a shit about who gets hurt in the process of his vendettas.
    Ka pai Duncan the reffs are only human so they make mistakes they are part of the foundation of ATOEAROA Rugby And the All Blacks most of them are voluntary doing the job. Ka kite ano

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