Open mike 18/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 18th, 2019 - 226 comments
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226 comments on “Open mike 18/06/2019 ”

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  1. Robert Guyton 1
    18 June 2019 at 7:09 am

    “What was intended as a simple photo for her friends and social media followers suddenly became a global platform for Greens MP Julie Anne Genter, 39, when she posted an image of herself riding a bike to Auckland Hospital to be induced to give birth last August.

    It was picked up by the Greens Twitter account, which referred to it as "the most on-brand thing ever".

    They're not wrong. Julie Anne is Minister for Women as well as Associate Transport and Health Minister, so riding a bike to the hospital to give birth might just be the ultimate photo opportunity for such a politician.

    It turns out the world agreed. The story was picked up by international news organisations, including the BBC and CNN.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/pregnancy/113541330/greens-mp-julie-anne-genter-on-bicycles-babies-and-whats-going-to-make-a-better-world

    • Cinny 1.1
      18 June 2019 at 7:19 am

      Julie Anne – she's awesome. What a wonderful human, she's coming down our way next month to help with an initiative. Will fill in the gaps closer to the time, super excited, she's a good lady.

      Thanks for the link 🙂

    • Blazer 1.2
      18 June 2019 at 10:01 am

      A very stupid and irresponsible thing to do.

      Its called unashamed GRANDSTANDING.

      • marty mars 1.2.1
        18 June 2019 at 10:09 am

        Bit harsh on the media there – they can be irresponsible, not sure about stupid – they gotta sell papers you know and it was a good news story.

      • Cinny 1.2.2
        18 June 2019 at 1:12 pm

        Are you saying the media was irresponsible or Julie Anne?

        As a woman who has given birth twice, active labor is where it's at. The last thing and one of the worst things you can do you is lay around waiting.

        The best advice is for those in labor is to move around and encourage baby to be born, there by shortening ones labor. Activities for such include but is not limited to biking, sex and walking uphill.

        I didn't get this advice for my first baby, labor was 23 hrs, compared to baby #2 when I moved around which shortened my labor down to 6hrs.

        • Blazer 1.2.2.1
          18 June 2019 at 1:23 pm

          JAG…shameless grandstanding never mind the..spin.

          • solkta 1.2.2.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 1:34 pm

            Blazer…shameless fuckwitery never mind the..facts.

          • WeTheBleeple 1.2.2.1.2
            18 June 2019 at 1:38 pm

            A politician putting their money where their mouth is? Shameless indeed.

            I like to shamelessly grandstand by:

            gardening in my front yard

            catching the bus at public stops

            wearing recycled clothes.

            What a hussy!

      • solkta 1.2.3
        18 June 2019 at 1:32 pm

        and you be a midwife yeh? Oh your not? I think that is called unashamed fuckwitery.

        • Blazer 1.2.3.1
          18 June 2019 at 1:43 pm

          Too bad.Thats my opinion.

          A heavily pregnant woman rides a bike to hospital in Auckland city.

          I recall someone said it was o.k,because it was …mainly downhill! 🙁

          • WeTheBleeple 1.2.3.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 3:01 pm

            Look at the photo it's an e-bike.

            Then, go sit in the corner and think about what a dick you are being.

            • Blazer 1.2.3.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:04 pm

              are you saying mid wives advise riding e bikes to hospital in Auckland to help induce labour?

              And are you saying that no danger exists in doing so?

              • WeTheBleeple …
                18 June 2019 at 3:39 pm

                You can do far better than this nonsense, I've seen it and generally enjoy your input. Not this time.

                "women who exercised more earlier in pregnancy reported fewer discomforts later in pregnancy (P = 0.01). These data suggest that participation in aerobic exercise during pregnancy at a level great enough to produce or maintain a training effect does not adversely affect birthweight or other maternal and infant outcomes but may be associated temporally with fewer perceived pregnancy-associated discomforts."

                https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/7674866

                "Women who continued endurance exercise at or near preconceptual levels during pregnancy gained less weight (-4.6 kg), delivered earlier (-8 d), and had lighter-weight offspring (-500 g) than those who stopped exercising prior to the 28th week."

                https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/6513772

                To put it scientifically, I can find a shit-ton more studies like that.

              • Cinny …
                19 June 2019 at 1:15 pm

                Blazer….. women regularly ride bikes to hospital in Copenhagen when pregnant.

                Regarding cycling as a transport form for the majority of cyclists, I found this text on the Netdoktor website about cycling and pregnancy. It is highly recommended by doctors in Denmark to ride while pregnant, right up to the end if you can.

                http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/09/cycling-with-contractions-to-hospital.html

                “This is the view supported by the Royal College of Midwives (RCM), who say “Exercise during pregnancy is associated with many health benefits for both the mother and fetus. If a pregnant woman is used to cycling she is no more likely to fall off a bicycle than a non pregnant one. Cycling is often preferred exercise because whilst it is aerobic it is non weight bearing.”

                https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fitness-and-training/cycling-while-pregnant-tips-and-advice/

              • greywarshark …
                19 June 2019 at 1:35 pm

                Give up blazer. I don't know why she wanted to go to hospital at all, as probably it is recommended in some book that a water bath, properly prepared, is the ideal way. Or in a special birth hut built in a fragrant wood out of willow branches and soft leaves for a mattress. Or to have it at home after a vigorous time cleaning the house as they used to do. I would be interested in getting safely to the suitable place decided for the birth and that would be top of my mind.

                But one shouldn't be too precautionary and setting an example for others of the Green way to do it carries the most kudos. Actually it would be ideal to get to the hospital in a safe way, to be carried in a palanquin* with four strong men on the poles, and there climb on an exercise bike and light up the ward with the electricity produced, perhaps the cafeteria too.

                When the light went off, everyone would cheer for the arrival of the new baby with green genes.

                *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_(vehicle)

                • solkta …
                  19 June 2019 at 2:07 pm

                  I don't know why she wanted to go to hospital at all,

                  Jeez old man have you not read any of this thread. She didn't want to go to hospital. She wanted to have a home birth and had the birthing pool all ready but nothing she could do at home would induce labour.

                  • greywarshark …
                    19 June 2019 at 3:16 pm

                    It was a rhetorical question asked in a rather ironic way. I fear that you aren't good at anything beyond the literal.

          • McFlock 1.2.3.1.2
            18 June 2019 at 3:07 pm

            How is it stupid and irresponsible?

            Seriously. If other traffic is too dangerous for a pregnant woman, then it's too dangerous for everyone.

            And if there's some issue around bike-riding and pregnancy that doesn't involve an 1820s-level understanding of reproductive biology and exercise, please enlighten us all.

            • Blazer 1.2.3.1.2.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:28 pm

              if you fall off your bike and injure yourself ,its different to a pregnant woman falling off her bike.'If you can't appreciate that…there's no hope for you.

              • McFlock …
                18 June 2019 at 3:33 pm

                How often do people fall off bikes, compared to crashing cars? And what's the effect of the seatbelt/airbag combo compared to a low speed bike crash (I'm sure she wasn't cycling like a commuting lycra wonder who thinks he's in a tour de france peleton)?

              • Robert Guyton …
                18 June 2019 at 5:12 pm

                Never mind what Blazer's saying, he's just upset and at a loss now that Pete George's blog has expired; all that frustration and nowhere to flush it to!

                • McFlock …
                  18 June 2019 at 5:15 pm

                  lol

                • Blazer …
                  18 June 2019 at 7:08 pm

                  do behave bobby appleseed.Surely you do not think merely being a Green M.P exempts their behaviour from critique.

                  • McFlock …
                    18 June 2019 at 7:14 pm

                    lol dude it's not even at the level of "Green MP" yet. I'm still trying to figure out why you think riding a bike is something pregnant women shouldn't do, let alone what your expertise on which you base that opinion might be.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:31 pm

                      well laughing boy if you can find one doctor who recommends that pregnant women about to 'drop' should ride a bicycle to hospital…don't be..shy.

                    • McFlock …
                      18 June 2019 at 8:08 pm

                      Bicycling is actuaslly recommended as a low-impact aerobic exercise for pregnant women.

                      As for cycling to an arranged delivery, what precise issue do you have with it. You're the one with the claim that it's "very stupid and irresponsible". Back it up with something more than that you haven't seen a doctor specifically recommend it.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 8:29 pm

                      well McFlock ,you still have not produced any evidence that a woman about to give birth should ride a bike to hospital.

                      Lets make it really simple.

                      Do you ,do doctors recommend that pregnant women about to give birth should ride a bicycle to hospital?

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 8:34 pm

                      She wasn't about to give birth, she was going to hospital to get induced. She actually wanted to have a home birth. Obviously you didn't bother to actually read the article, you just jumped directly onto your grandstand.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 8:42 pm

                      straight out of the Crosby Textor manual..

                      https://www.nowtolove.co.nz/parenting/pregnancy-birth/green-mp-julie-anne-genters-baby-heartache-24966

                      'In March last year she opened up to the NZ Woman's Weekly about her struggles to get pregnant, saying, "I've been really focused on my career so, until recently, having a child hadn't been a big priority for me.

                      The Minister for Women wowed the world by cycling to Auckland Hospital on Sunday to be induced. She was 42 weeks pregnant.

                      Green Party co-leader James Shaw quipped that in cycling there Genter was very "on brand".

                      do me a..favour!

                      '

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:16 pm

                      What is "straight out of the Crosby Textor manual"?

                      No point in reading up about it now that you are looking silly. The thing is she was going to the hospital to get induced because she wasn't about to give birth otherwise.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:20 pm

                      @soltka..go to bed now…commonsense cannot be ..induced..you are a hopeless ..case.

                    • McFlock …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:27 pm

                      I haven't seen a recommendation for a taxi or private car as transportation to hospital, either.

                      I guess every single method of getting a pregnant woman to hospital is "reckless and irresponsible". I guess it's a miracle healthy babies are born to such careless women.

                      Unless your actual problem is with something other than having a Classical Greek understanding of female reproductive anatomy.

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:27 pm

                      @Blazer

                      Your common sense is not very common given how many of us have just given you shit. And for fucks sake learn how to construct a sentence.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:42 pm

                      @soltka give it up..'

                      and you be a midwife yeh? Oh your not? I think that is called unashamed fuckwitery.'

                      'Your common sense is not very common given how many of us have just given you shit. And for fucks sake learn how to construct a sentence.'

                      'Surely you don't think merely flying the Jolly Roger gives you the ability to form a critique.'

                      Says the guy who flies the Jolly Roger. Do you even know what that flag means?

                      very good..thats a coherent argument in your ..world.Get help.

                      '

                      '

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 9:48 pm

                      You keep putting ".." in your sentences and as i cannot know what it is that you have removed from your sentence i cannot know if you are presenting an argument or just drivelling.

                    • McFlock …
                      18 June 2019 at 10:18 pm

                      As an aside, one GP I know had a patient who had four kids, each born on the exact estimated day. She reckoned the secret was vigourous sex the night before.

                      One way to win the delivery day pool lol

                  • solkta …
                    18 June 2019 at 7:23 pm

                    Surely you don't think merely flying the Jolly Roger gives you the ability to form a critique.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:28 pm

                      not at all.But as I voted for the Greens last election ,I expect them to be serious about their policies.

                      Your comment is very facile..you should be ashamed of it.

                      Play the man ..not the ball.

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:30 pm

                      When there is no ball all there is is the man.

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:32 pm

                      Also, you do actually understand that the Greens don't have a policy about pregnant women riding bikes, right?

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:32 pm

                      I'm a man and I have 2 balls at the ..very least…what you got?

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:34 pm

                      my concern is grandstanding…can't you understand that?

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:36 pm

                      I do understand that you were trying to grandstand, but you fell off.

                    • Blazer …
                      18 June 2019 at 7:50 pm

                      you, solkta are as vehement and one eyed and a waste of time to engage with as any RWNJ.

                    • solkta …
                      18 June 2019 at 8:06 pm

                      Says the guy who flies the Jolly Roger. Do you even know what that flag means?

        • greywarshark 1.2.3.2
          18 June 2019 at 1:45 pm

          A midwife might take umbrage at the idea that gardening in your front yard is the same as being an idealistic Greenie who was chancing an accident to herself and babe on this very important day. I hope she had bike outriders before and after her for protection. All the same I think that some people don't know when and where to draw the line.

          • solkta 1.2.3.2.1
            18 June 2019 at 1:52 pm

            I don't know why you are replying to about gardening in my front yard old grey one, i don't have a front yard.

            • greywarshark 1.2.3.2.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 8:49 pm

              Oh that was back earlier solkta and plenty of road has gone by under the bicycle wheels now. Don't worry your pretty head about it.

              • solkta …
                18 June 2019 at 8:58 pm

                Not back earlier by me. Why don't you just learn how to use the site. It is not like you haven't had enough practice.

    • Puckish Rogue 1.3
      18 June 2019 at 2:32 pm

      She certainly has a lot of bikes

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    18 June 2019 at 7:09 am

    Compare with the Julie Anne Genter article:

    “ANZ chairman and former prime minister John Key says a review of outgoing chief executive David Hisco's expenses did not include the purchase of his beach house.

    The house at 43 Success Court, Omaha, is now owned by Hisco and associates. It was previously owned by John and Bronagh Key.”

    • Cinny 2.1
      18 June 2019 at 7:16 am

      Morena Robert

      Now they are wheeling out key for some kind of damage control re ANZ, currently watching him spin his shite on newshub. Same old lines he was spinning yesterday on checkpoint.

      Glad I don't bank with any of those aussie banks. Even happier that key is no longer PM.

      On a side note, key was at the Motueka Market on Sunday, lolz the one Sunday I didn't go to the Market. Apparently his mother in law lives in Motueka.

      • Chris T 2.1.1
        18 June 2019 at 7:50 am

        "On a side note, key was at the Motueka Market on Sunday,"

        How dare he

        And did you hear someone brought a house off him

        Shocking stuff

        • Cinny 2.1.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 7:58 am

          Akshully they brought a soft toy as far as I know, but hey don't let the fact's get in the way.

          Personally I just wanted to see how short he was in real life, up close without his security detail. Sometimes short men are absolute arseholes.

          • Rapunzel 2.1.1.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 8:07 am

            I think "derangement syndrome" works both ways and will rear its head even when it is current events that are the ones in focus, it seems, as in this case, some people believe certain past politicians are due a pass on anything for life on a selective basis.

            • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 8:12 am

              "43 Success Court"

              Naming a son, "Max"

              Choices Key made are revealing in a very obvious, crass way.

              • OnceWasTim …
                18 June 2019 at 8:53 am

                I hope you're not surprised @ Robert (I'll bet not). It's become a feature of most Masters of the Universe – both in private enterprise and in the public sector. Even that guy that drank the Cool Aid in the '80s seems to have had a bit of an epiphany:

                https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/06/14/633692/we-took-corporatisation-of-the-state-too-fa

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  18 June 2019 at 1:41 pm

                  Yeah but the writing on the wall was blatantly obvious. Having a change of heart after cashing the cheque…

                  It's not hindsight, it's backtracking.

                  • OnceWasTim …
                    18 June 2019 at 2:31 pm

                    /agreed again @WtB.

                    What I find both funny AND sad is that after all the antics of these Masters of the Universe (the 'officials', the public and private sector CEOs et al) is that many in this kind and transformational government are only just beginning to see it. Woods and trees and all that shit.

                    Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the current coalition in the absence of any viable alternative, and I almost rejoined the Labour party earlier last year. I didn't – mainly because I saw, and continue to see so much naivety; so much spin and shit coming out of the bowels of power that it saddens me. People who SHOULD know better. Iain L-G for one, but several others as well. Sepuloni……Martin (the OT thing) most recently. I L-G and other responsible ministers over various Ministry for Everything failings. We're TWO.years.in!!!! Rome Wasn't Built in a Day shit is wearing pretty thin.

                    It's tempting to go on but transformation is.not.possible without some fundamental change. 2023 is at risk, if not 2020 and it'll all have been for naught

                    • WeTheBleeple …
                      18 June 2019 at 3:06 pm

                      This Labour Government has sent me to the Green Party. So I guess they're doing some good.

                      I am supportive like you, and like you I think it's high time someone drew a line in the sand on cronyism and corruption. And the FACT they are meant to serve the 100%, not the 1% again and again and ….

                    • greywarshark …
                      18 June 2019 at 5:34 pm

                      'Spin and shit coming out of the bowels of power'. Apparently that has been a problem for Wellington, I was just reading about surfing 'hazards' at Snapper Point and wonder if they have caught up with the source?

                • greywarshark …
                  18 June 2019 at 6:22 pm

                  I seem to remember Rob Campbell left being Left and got a directorship of Bank of NZ or something. And he says that things got better. David Lange said it was running like a Polish shipyard. Campbell might remember that as wise and forward-looking but what happened to the man who said it?

                  He is in his grave and the man with a toothbrush moustache and his family connections and serving-mates have done nicely for themselves.

                  And when we ran like a Polish shipyard there was always room for improvement. We have dropped the reins now and our old milkcart donkey turned into a smart, whippet-like jonkey.

                  The rich smart ones wanted to be able to swank above their station when they went to live in Switzerland (Gibbs?). Wealthy men overseas tut-tutted in amazement when they heard that we were still being mucked around by unions (ferries on strike every second Christmas, skeleton building unfinished for three years). It made a man feel small (Douglas Myers?). e&oe

                  Complaints were made because the P&T took 3 months in the early 80's to install new telephone lines. Now we are so efficient and our budgets are so lean that we always employ less people than needed for the job, to ensure there is no down-time so it has become an in-joke when ordinary people make a phone call and hear :

                  • “We are currently experiencing high call volume. Please call again later.
                  • “You have exceeded the waiting limit for this queue. Please hang up and try your call again.”

                  But we were updating in the 1980's, but too cautiously to keep up with innovation. It can be noted from below that the National Party were in government in the years 1975-1984. http://www.wordworx.co.nz/KiwitelcoTimeline.htm

                  1979: From December 1979 a link through the Intelsat IV satellite, in conjunction with new NEC 820 cross bar equipment in Auckland, enabled international subscriber trunk (ISD) dialling from New Zealand. Intelsat circuits leased to the International Maritime Satellite Organisation (Inmarsat), which New Zealand had joined in July 1979, meant local users could gain instant access to Tymnet and Telenet, two North American data networks which were part of Oasis (Overseas Access Service for Information Services). The service proved popular with New Zealand libraries, as they could access the Dialog database with its then 18 million bibliographic entries.

                  The 1980s: A lack of investment by the Post Office meant the network was not in a position to handle the growth needed for the next generation of services. By the mid-1980s the network was overloaded, there was massive congestion. In Auckland the exchange was verging on collapse and across the country there are frequent network crashes.

                  The Post Office, a government department limited in what it could invest, became increasingly inefficient. The government began to look at the problem and ways to create a more efficient department and as part of its economic reforms began looking at ways of putting it on a commercial footing. Under the State-owned Enterprises Act of 1986 it created several state trading companies including Telecom.

                  The see-sawing began on how to drive the economy and in the end the politicians gave it up as too hard and left it to the hands of the market, but gave up much of their autonomy also.

                  Third Labour Government of New Zealand (1972–75)
                  Third National Government of New Zealand (1975–84)
                  Fourth Labour Government of New Zealand (1984–90)
                  Fourth National Government of New Zealand (1990–99)
                  Fifth Labour Government of New Zealand (1999–2008)
                  Fifth National Government of New Zealand (2008–2017)
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_governments

          • Cinny 2.1.1.1.2
            19 June 2019 at 6:05 pm

            FYI the soft toy they brought was a Donkey and yes our local paper had fun with a little article and picture, lovely headline too… Don-key!

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.2
          18 June 2019 at 8:04 am

          Conflict of interest there, Chris T.

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.3
          18 June 2019 at 8:07 am

          "ANZ staff are outraged at the way the bank has handled the departure of its chief executive, a union boss says.

          It was revealed yesterday that ANZ chief executive David Hisco has left the bank after an investigation into personal expenses.

          Among them were "tens of thousands of dollars" for chauffeur-driven cars and wine storage over nine years."

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113561760/union-anz-staff-who-made-hiscos-mistake-would-have-been-instantly-dismissed

        • solkta 2.1.1.4
          18 June 2019 at 8:07 am

          There could have been children with pony tails, there should have been a warning.

          • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.4.1
            18 June 2019 at 8:16 am

            Did he wear his tiki t-shirt, the one that connects him to real New Zealanders?

    • ianmac 2.2
      18 June 2019 at 9:14 am

      Key said he had not considered resigning himself.

      "It would be inappropriate. Firstly we're not the only bank that has had issues."

      So the others did it too. Same old same old.

      • bwaghorn 2.2.1
        18 June 2019 at 11:12 am

        As much as I hate to be fair to key the offending and other problems at that bank predate him being there. One could go so far as to say hes cleaning up the place but more likely just cutting lose any one foolish enough to get caught

        • Stuart Munro. 2.2.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 1:09 pm

          I wish something would predate him.

        • greywarshark 2.2.1.2
          18 June 2019 at 5:26 pm

          bwaghorn you seem to have got cynical since you started commenting here. I hope TS has not been a bad influence on you.

          • bwaghorn 2.2.1.2.1
            18 June 2019 at 8:15 pm

            On the contrary I'm probably less cynical and more reasonable now than when I first visited.

            Still call it how I see though.

            • greywarshark 2.2.1.2.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 8:44 pm

              Glad you feel that way. Plenty to call about though. I guess you approve of some help for farmers in debt crisis, something positive happening eh.

              • bwaghorn …
                19 June 2019 at 6:33 am

                Banks should have to go in to mediation with any debtor that is struggling so yip I think it's good.

                Banks are the people that make the loans and supposedly should have more of a understanding on the risk of failure.Yet they still make these high risk loans .

                They in my view are the root cause of property and farms being out of reach to most.

    • Muttonbird 2.3
      18 June 2019 at 9:56 am

      43 Success Court.

      You couldn't make that up.

      • AB 2.3.1
        18 June 2019 at 2:42 pm

        If we still had the consolation of religion, we might be able to believe that there was a special place in hell for anyone who gave a street that name, or bought a house there. But as we don't, we are reduced to derision. Do you think there is an "Excellence Crescent", or a Personal Responsibility Road"? Maybe an "Opportunity Rise" and a "Good Decisions Drive"? Though the truly asprayshunal would go for "Foreign Trust Terrace".

        • greywarshark 2.3.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 5:24 pm

          I like that last one – it sounds like an exotic cafe where the wine is guaranteed appellation.

    • greywarshark 2.4
      18 June 2019 at 1:47 pm

      That's interesting. When reading about a $ms failed IT scheme the executive in charge of it had a payout and a nice house on the coast somewhere. Goes with the contract I guess. How nice.

  3. A 3
    18 June 2019 at 7:15 am

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/48601042

    Glastonbury festival petition against 5G

    "The event, which will run from June 26 to June 30, will host over 200,000 music lovers.

    They will be some of the first people to test the latest mobile network before it is rolled out across several cities in the UK later this year – as long as they have a phone that is compatible with 5G.

    But some campaigners have set up a petition for it to be banned at the world-famous festival, which 3,000 people have signed. They say they're worried about how safe the new technology is.

    Residents of Glastonbury town have also expressed concerns over 5G. The issue has even been taken up with the local authorities. Now, Glastonbury council is looking into it and has voted against the introduction of 5G in the town for now."

    Goes on to talk about radiowaves considered safe. Possibly the worst place for a test run due to the level of resistance.

    • Wayne 3.1
      18 June 2019 at 9:55 am

      May be the worst place for a trial, given the counter culture nature (in a mild way) of the festival.

      But 5G is going to happen in the UK, and everywhere. I doubt the Glastonbury Council has the legal power to stop it, just like councils can't do that in NZ.

      The power to do so (siting of cell phone towers) was taken off NZ Councils some years ago. They were way too much subject to parochial pressure from zealous activists. A similiar issue arose under the Clark government about the additional electricity link to Auckland. Various councils wanted to stop it. They had to be overridden by legislation.

      • One Two 3.1.1
        18 June 2019 at 1:03 pm

        But 5G is going to happen in the UK, and everywhere.

        I would not be so certain about that, Wayne…

        Check Gateshead Council Uk

        It would come down to the definition of success factors as portrayed by the marketing departments…

        You are correct that local councils and municipalities have been simultaneously neutered by central governments beholden to the tech/telco industry…

        However, the global pushback is rapidly gathering pace and will essentially come to a head from consumer buy in…or not.

        I'll leave the design and implementation complexities aside, as they are vastly complex and not well understood, even by many technical folks…

        What does 5G mean to you, by your understanding?

        • Wayne 3.1.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 3:40 pm

          One Two,

          My understanding of 5G (gained only from the general media) is of much greater data, though a richer experience on the internet, that is better graphics, more interesting content, easier to send big files.

          I presume it is delivered on the same radio frequencies as present 4G at the same power levels. Hence my assumption it will be no more adverse effects than present. Which is basically zero side effects.

          In fact as the technology improves, there will be less power in the transmission. 5G delivered over fibre obviously has zero side effects.

          • One Two 3.1.1.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 4:58 pm

            Good on you for being comfortable in expressing and admitting your level of understanding on present and future wireless networks.

            The only comment I would make in response, is that the technology is nothing like the media/telcos/tech/regulators have portrayed it

            If you have young relatives, you could do them a service by uplifting your understanding on what is a subject as serious as environmental degradation, and will contribute greatly to further amplifying degradation…

            Essentially a case of 'torching the planet'…would not be a hyperbole…

            Your power line analogy could not be more out of context…

          • Pat 3.1.1.1.2
            18 June 2019 at 5:21 pm

            a question Wayne…how much have various administrations spent on the fibre roll out?….and how do you think they'll justify its early obsolescence to the voting public?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.2
        18 June 2019 at 1:06 pm

        NZer's don't have anything to worry about – compliant little guinea pigs are we, going about our 'business as usual'. "What's your driverless car?" – ffs.

        The rollout of 5G (and 6G, and, and…) is likely to be beneficial and have no negative effects, but there's only one way to be sure.

        Brussels does not go ahead with 5G, due to health concerns

        Plans for a pilot project to provide high-speed 5G wireless internet in Brussels have been halted due to fears for the health of citizens, according to reports. It is impossible to estimate the radiation from the antennas required for the service. “I cannot welcome such technology if the radiation standards, which must protect the citizen, are not respected, 5G or not,” Environment minister Céline Fremault (CDH) told Bruzz. “The people of Brussels are not guinea pigs whose health I can sell at a profit. We cannot leave anything to doubt,” she added.

        http://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels/14753/radiation-concerns-halt-brussels-5g-for-now

        Netherlands: Parliament asks for independent investigation on 5G health risks

        Resolution opposing 5G by the municipality of Rome

        Germans petition Parliament to stop 5G auction on health grounds
        https://www.jrseco.com/european-union-5g-appeal-scientists-warn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/

        High ambient radiofrequency radiation in Stockholm city, Sweden
        https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/ol.2018.9789

        • Wayne 3.1.2.1
          18 June 2019 at 3:42 pm

          Europeans seem much more opposed to most new technologies, particularly as compared to the US, but also compared to NZ and Aus. It could be one of the reasons that virtually all new IT innovations occur in the US.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.2.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 4:05 pm

            Well those dozen or so 'little' European countries sitting above the US in a global prosperity index ranking are probably more than happy to 'freeload' off US IT innovation and experimentation, eh? Precautionary principle and all that.

            Hey, look, NZ's doing OK too – 18 months and no disaster yet. wink

            https://www.prosperity.com/rankings

      • WeTheBleeple 3.1.3
        18 June 2019 at 1:45 pm

        'Overridden by legislation.'

        You mean ignored and patronised by people (so called leaders) with no expertise who, hand in the pockets of industry, stuck up for industry, not voters.

        Believing in themselves as all powerful benevolent beings. While protesters, you know, wreckers and haters aye.

        May the parochial pressure drown you in your own bullshit.

        • Wayne 3.1.3.1
          18 June 2019 at 3:54 pm

          Well, you would say that. But virtually all New Zealand governments find they have to override local governments on one thing or the other.

          And no, it is not because of lobby groups, it is because central governments are much more aware of the national interest and have vastly more analytical research capability than local governments.

          I recall a very specific discussion I had with the MP for Hunua in the early 2000's about the electricity supply to Auckland. He was opposed to the lines going over the farms of his constituents. The effect would have been no extra power to Auckland. To be fair, he did propose a cable in the Waikato River, but that would have cost at least triple the landline.

          I said that sometimes your duty as an MP meant you have to put the national interest above the specific interests of your constituents. And that meant telling his constituents that they had to accept the lines going over their properties and getting compensation for that. That was not going to be easy for him. I suspect what he did say to his constituents is that he had represented their concerns to caucus as well as he could, but that caucus had decided in favour of the landline. Which was fine.

          • WeTheBleeple 3.1.3.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 4:10 pm

            I accept that as a fair reply. Do not assume I'll take a position for the sake of it however, I am one of those types that accesses large volumes of science and my position typically aligns with it. Academics may be largely left leaning because that's the logical route.

            I'm also a mad bastard, which doesn't help.

            The general public have every right to be wary of 5G.

            The power lines illustration was interesting, the expensive option obviously preferable except for the expense.

            Money overrides aesthetics, common sense, people, and governments – oftentimes.

            Unfortunately.

            The 'practicalities' are jargon for a stunning lack of foresight in many cases.

            And please, PLEASE – can we save the damn world before we worry about automating it.

    • greywarshark 3.2
      18 June 2019 at 1:50 pm

      The new technology that will be so pervasive that it will vibrate our pores and upset the delicate tuning of animals location systems. One of those points is possibly wrong – about the pores – but perhaps it will turn out to be a passive weight loser for me, even if all the animals decline. So it goes.

  4. RedLogix 4
    18 June 2019 at 7:47 am

    I suppose we could just pretend this is a mistake, or it doesn’t matter much:

    An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement.

    The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was “certain that Falun Gong as a source – probably the principal source – of organs for forced organ harvesting”.

    “The conclusion shows that very many people have died indescribably hideous deaths for no reason, that more may suffer in similar ways and that all of us live on a planet where extreme wickedness may be found in the power of those, for the time being, running a country with one of the oldest civilisations known to modern man.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

    It could all be lies, but then again in a nation run by a single party state, with a notoriously unreliable rule of law, censorship and suppression, arbitrary arrest and detention and so on … the ordinary person has no way to verify the official CCP narrative.

    Outrage has been done to death and part of me doesn't want to add to it. Yet somehow even in this jaded, cynical age I find even the possibility of this being true is beyond all the flogged out, overworn adjectives.

    • greywarshark 4.1
      18 June 2019 at 12:48 pm

      It is sad that China should besmirch its reputation, appearing to be a good country of scholars, innovation and law.

      Its leaders now seem to suffer from the awful maxim –

      'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

      • WeTheBleeple 4.1.1
        18 June 2019 at 3:11 pm

        It's heartbreaking, and horrific. China has the potential to lead the world, but this shit will see them stymied at every opportunity. Something as big as China there will certainly be an element of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, but this is not something one hears about and subsequently forgets.

        Come on China, work on your human rights, like, now!

  5. Ed1 5
    18 June 2019 at 10:33 am

    This Spin-Off article was referred to recently in the cess-pit of nz.general

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-06-2019/why-the-treasury-non-hack-may-still-have-been-illegal/

    A defence of the hacker was given by referring to section 2 of that part of the Crimes Act: (2) To avoid doubt, subsection (1) does not apply if a person who is authorised to access a computer system accesses that computer system for a purpose other than the one for which that person was given access.

    I'm no lawyer, but I find myself agreeing with the contention that the clause may excuse accidental discovery of the unauthorised information on the first attempt, but not on the subsequent couple of thousand attempts. What do others think?

  6. joe90 6
    18 June 2019 at 10:39 am

    The theocrat's have got their stickies on another Armageddon machine…nice.

    That the church carries extraordinary weight on Russia’s domestic scene is well-known and not that unusual. What is more surprising, and less often explored, is the church’s influence within Russia’s nuclear weapons complex—the most significant wing of one of the world’s most powerful militaries. There the nexus between church and state runs deepest, widest, and longest. During the last three decades, the priesthood has entered all levels of command and positioned itself as a guardian of Russia’s nuclear potential. It’s impossible to fully understand the strategic reality in Russia today without scrutinizing the remarkable conjunction between the Kremlin, the ROC, and the nuclear weapons community.

    THE TRINITY AND THE TRIAD

    In Russia, each of the three components of the nuclear force structure—air, land, and sea—has its own patron saint. Icons adorn the walls of the sanctified headquarters, the command posts, and even the nuclear weapons platforms. Each large military base houses a garrison church, chapel, or prayer room. Aerial, ground, and naval processions of the cross are routine. Supplication services and the sprinkling of holy water mark oaths of allegiance, parades, exercises, and space and nuclear launches. Pilots of strategic bombers sanctify their jets prior to combat sorties and attach icons to the maps they take to the cockpit. Mobile temples accompany land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles, and nuclear-armed submarines house portable churches.

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2019-06-14/how-russian-church-learned-stop-worrying-and-love-bomb?

  7. Exkiwiforces 7
    18 June 2019 at 11:02 am

    Not sure if anyone has this, but I won’t comment on it as leave me tears and a fear of what the future may bring IRT CC. I’ve seen a lot of shit over the yrs cause by our follow humans, but this caps it off.

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/powerful-photos-shows-the-extent-of-arctic-ice-melting-in-greenland/news-story/2c62b6b87797658c2b5c7a2a50ae876b

    • Stuart Munro. 7.1
      18 June 2019 at 11:39 am

      You maniacs!

    • lprent 7.2
      18 June 2019 at 12:44 pm

      Potential of 7m of sealevel rise in Greenland. I suspect most of it will happen within a relatively few decades at the rate of acceleration of the melt.

      One the big problems has been getting decent data about what is happening in the wash zone under the glaciers. Something like the cyroeggs below may help if they manage to survive the crush…

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-48638958

      • Exkiwiforces 7.2.1
        18 June 2019 at 11:43 pm

        Yeah its starting to look that way now and I would be interesting to see what a effect it has on the Gulf Steam now and into the coming decades which would a large number of the population on both sides of the Pond.

        I see Nth India is in a one hell of a heat wave atm, which should be there monsoon season. God only knows what it effect it will have on our coming wet season here in the NT. Probably another shit one like the one just gone?

  8. The Chairman 8
    18 June 2019 at 11:45 am

    According to Katie Bradford, a Minister has recently pulled out of an interview after they weren't allowed to control the questions.

    Should she name and shame?

  9. The Chairman 9
    18 June 2019 at 12:04 pm

    Has anybody seen any comment from the Government (Labour, Greens or NZF) in response to The People's Budget?

  10. greywarshark 10
    18 June 2019 at 12:05 pm

    The far-Right are feeling emboldened.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20190617/man-arrested-over-german-politician-murder-reportedly-from-far-right-scene

    Police and prosecutors issued a joint statement on Sunday to say that they had taken a 45-year-old man into custody Saturday over the shooting death in early June of prominent local politician Walter Lübcke, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's CDU party.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/suspect-in-killing-of-german-politician-walter-lubcke-was-jailed-for-attempted-bombing-say-security-sources

    A man with links to rightwing extremist groups who once planted a pipe bomb outside a home for asylum seekers is a suspect in the murder of a German politician this month, security sources have said.

    The man who was arrested at the weekend in connection with the shooting of Walter Lübcke on 2 June is believed to have an association with the militant neo-Nazi group Combat 18 among others.

    He was convicted of the attempted pipe bomb attack in 1993 and sentenced to prison, and a decade ago he was arrested on the margins of a neo-Nazi demonstration.

    It is obvious from this that there needs to be intelligence on dangerous obsessives in the community. A pipe bomb in 1993, 2009 approx he was around neo–Nazi demonstrations, 2019 killed a politician. His anomie has only increased during 26 years.

  12. The Chairman 12
    18 June 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Was speaking to a highly leveraged landlord the other day about his dilemma.

    He has long-term tenants (20 years). Charges them far below market value as they are great tenants that aren't well off. But he is now facing costs for 2 relatively minor (but costly nonetheless) issues that due to other life expenses and the fact he can't obtain a loan he can't afford to fix right away. The thing is, the law is changing and he will be breaking it by not repairing these issues by July 1.

    Does he run the risk of breaking the law until he can afford to get the matters fixed, or should he sell up and give the tenants notice?

    The house would sell for far more than he paid, thus the rent (if relet) would far exceed what he is currently charging meaning the current tenants won't be able to afford to stay on.

    Any thoughts?

    • WeTheBleeple 12.1
      18 June 2019 at 1:57 pm

      "Any thoughts?"

      Yep. Fuck off.

      • The Chairman 12.1.1
        18 June 2019 at 1:59 pm

        Really? Grow up.

        • WeTheBleeple 12.1.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 2:01 pm

          No. Fuck off.

        • solkta 12.1.1.2
          18 June 2019 at 2:07 pm

          Really? You really think concern trolling this site all day most days is appropriate adult behaviour.

          • The Chairman 12.1.1.2.1
            18 June 2019 at 2:13 pm

            I'm not concern trolling. The topics I raise are genuine and are genuinely posted for mature discussion. Which some here are happy to partake in.

            • solkta 12.1.1.2.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 2:17 pm

              get a life.

            • Jimmy 12.1.1.2.1.2
              18 June 2019 at 2:17 pm

              I know a landlord in a similar situation. I believe he is going to give the tenants notice and sell the property around spring this year.

              • McFlock …
                18 June 2019 at 5:05 pm

                So either the new owner will fix it up and rent it out, or there's a cheap house on the market for owner-residents.

      • Jimmy 12.1.2
        18 June 2019 at 2:14 pm

        That's an intelligent response! Perhaps try answering or is that too much effort?

        • solkta 12.1.2.1
          18 June 2019 at 2:21 pm

          Feeding a troll is just stupid.

          • The Chairman 12.1.2.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 2:47 pm

            Yet here you are helping to draw attention to my topic. And if you genuinely believe I'm a troll (which, by the way I'm not) then who is looking stupid?

            • solkta 12.1.2.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:01 pm

              I think it is rather obvious that you are a troll and most are thinking what a crap troll you are. Most of the attention here is on the fact of how great it is that people will finally have healthy homes. As The Al1en says, we on the left have been campaigning for this for a very long time.

    • The Chairman 12.2
      18 June 2019 at 2:04 pm

      My thoughts?

      A unintended consequence of the law change.

      The question I'm left asking is how widespread is this?

      If widespread, surely it will be something that will need addressing?

      • marty mars 12.2.1
        18 June 2019 at 2:38 pm

        lol good pun

      • marty mars 12.2.2
        18 June 2019 at 3:56 pm

        sorry forgot the 'k'

      • Stuart Munro. 12.2.3
        18 June 2019 at 4:49 pm

        It's not clear that the consequence is that of the law change, rather than of the meteoric rise in property prices created by allowing foreign capital free access to our market.

        Had the property inflation not occurred and rents risen in response, your friend might be in a similar situation, but selling up would not be as attractive, nor as punitive to the tenants.

    • Robert Guyton 12.3
      18 June 2019 at 2:05 pm

      My thought is: chickens will spend day after day searching for a rent in the fence if ever once they find one; you can repair it but they'll be forever pacing that wire fence, searching, peering, hoping…

      • The Chairman 12.3.1
        18 June 2019 at 2:09 pm

        No concern for the tenants that may soon become homeless?

        • WeTheBleeple 12.3.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 2:22 pm

          You are concerned enough for the lot of us. And sincere, soooo sincere.

          • Robert Guyton 12.3.1.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 5:26 pm

            Sincere as a sincere thing; it drips from the chair, like molasses or other fluids I've seen dripping from chairs, highchairs in particular.

            • Blazer 12.3.1.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 7:19 pm

              always be sincere Robert…even if you don't really…mean it'!(anon)

        • The Al1en 12.3.1.2
          18 June 2019 at 2:41 pm

          For years we on the left campaigned for warmer, dryer homes for tenants. This government finally made it happen. Sob stories for landlords who can't pay to implement changes that will improve the health and quality of life for tens of thousands, no thanks.

          • The Chairman 12.3.1.2.1
            18 June 2019 at 2:56 pm

            The home has an open fire place, heatpump and is fully insulated. Meeting all other requirements. And the rent is far below market value.

            Therefore, the real loss here is going to be the quality of life for tenant if he decides to sell.

            • The Al1en 12.3.1.2.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:00 pm

              And yet you state

              The issues relate to ventilation, kitchen, bathroom and laundry. And drainage, guttering.

              Which is it? Sounds damp waiting to happen.

            • McFlock 12.3.1.2.1.2
              18 June 2019 at 3:02 pm

              No, currently the tenant is trading cheaper rent for mould problems in kitchen, bathroom, and laundry, and "drainage" and "guttering" issues. And, until recently, a sub-par oven, apparently. As well as a landlord who doesn't have access to short term cash to repair anything if there's a plumbing problem or a roof leak.

              That's their choice.

              But the regulation change means that they're not forced to pay market rents and put up with all that, and nor is anyone else.

            • The Al1en 12.3.1.2.1.3
              18 June 2019 at 3:03 pm

              Of course what you're attempting to do is run the nat line that improvements will raise rents and force tenants out.

              What's next up on their agenda?

              • marty mars …
                18 June 2019 at 7:03 pm

                yep – seems clear to me that the C.Hairman was talking about himself not actually his friend. Pity people can't face up to their failings as landlords – most people just want them to fix the messes they have created instead of thinking of exploiting tenants. Sickens me really these types.

      • solkta 12.3.2
        18 June 2019 at 2:12 pm

        You can train chickens. I've taught my neighbors chickens to stay on their side of the fence by throwing small sticks at them. The Chairman on the other hand..

    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.4
      18 June 2019 at 2:08 pm

      Difficult without more info. How long had the landlord known that the accommodation they were ‘providing’ wouldn't be compliant with the July 2019 rules?

      What are those two relatively minor but costly issues, e.g. do they relate to insulation; did the landlord consider taking advantage of incentives to upgrade their asset?

      What region/city? [Wondering about other options for the tenants.]

      And does 'The Landlord' that 'The Chairman' was speaking to own only one property?

      Was The Chairman‘s question a (mis)leading question?

      "Renters whose freezing homes won't be insulated before new regulations come into effect next month say they have no power in getting their landlords to bring them up to scratch."

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/392001/about-100-000-rental-properties-likely-to-miss-insulation-deadline

      • WeTheBleeple 12.4.1
        18 June 2019 at 2:25 pm

        He said the landlord is highly leveraged. Or to paraphrase, another greedy twat squeezing the system.

        May their house of cards collapse.

      • The Chairman 12.4.2
        18 June 2019 at 2:38 pm

        Difficult without more info. How long had the landlord known that the accommodation they were ‘providing’ wouldn't be compliant with the July 2019 rules?

        He was aware for sometime but was/is under financial pressure due to personal circumstances coupled with the cost of recently paying for a new oven for the flat.

        The issues relate to ventilation, kitchen, bathroom and laundry. And drainage, guttering. Which are two issues that doesn't seem to have any Government (local or central) assistance set up to help. Other than that, the house is fully up to scratch. And he only has the one rental.

        The area has a housing shortage with prices and rents soaring. He will have no trouble selling and getting good money for it. But that won't leave the current tenants in a good position.

        • The Al1en 12.4.2.1
          18 June 2019 at 2:45 pm

          But they have been happy to rent out what sounds like a substandard property for 20 years.

          The tenants should take the owner to tribunal as soon as possible.

          • The Chairman 12.4.2.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 3:08 pm

            Rubbish. The house has largely been above current standards. Having added a heatpump and insulation many years ago.

            • solkta 12.4.2.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:11 pm

              oh, so this imaginary friend of yours had the ability to upgrade many years ago before the deadline for those things but not now..

              • The Chairman …
                18 June 2019 at 3:28 pm

                The cost of rates and insurance weren't so high back then. Those costs have doubled along with the increase in real cost of living. Moreover, he wasn't facing the problems he has been of late.

                • McFlock …
                  18 June 2019 at 3:34 pm

                  If it's been that long since the tenants have had a rent increase, maybe they can wear a little one if the basic cost of keeping the house habitable is dragging him under.

                • Muttonbird …
                  18 June 2019 at 5:22 pm

                  Your friend sounds like an absolutely shit businessman. He should be in the business of landlordism because he's obviously not up to it or anything else.

                  Good riddance out of the rental market before he can do more damage.

            • The Al1en 12.4.2.1.1.2
              18 June 2019 at 3:12 pm

              And now it isn't within regs, and with all those issues you've listed, probably wasn't for a long time.

              Save your bullshit concern for the imaginary highly leveraged landlord you were speaking with. It won't work here.

              • The Chairman …
                18 June 2019 at 3:33 pm

                And now it isn't within regs,

                No. It still above current regulation. The law hasn't come into effect yet.

                So save you bullshit.

                • The Al1en …
                  18 June 2019 at 3:35 pm

                  So the issues you've listed aren't going to fall foul of the new legislation? Even though you wrote “The thing is, the law is changing and he will be breaking it by not repairing these issues by July 1.”

                  So, apart from the kitchen, laundry, ventilation and drainage, what's the 'effing problem then? 🙄

                  You do way too much bullshit defending.

            • WeTheBleeple 12.4.2.1.1.3
              18 June 2019 at 3:22 pm

              Added a heatpump many years ago. So, he was an early adopter of this tech, but failed to see the writing on the wall?

              I call bullshit.

            • mauī 12.4.2.1.1.4
              18 June 2019 at 3:23 pm

              Of course they foresaw what the new Government standards would be "many years ago" lol. These landlords were way ahead of Labour and now Labour is punishing them by not stumping up funding so their tenants can finally use the toilet, cook a meal or do some washing for the first time in 20 years. F'n Hell! This is atrocious from Labour Labour.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 12.4.2.2
          18 June 2019 at 3:03 pm

          "He was aware for sometime [sic]" – 6 months, 12 months, 18 months?

          Probably sound business practice to take steps to ensure that your assets are compliant well in advance of deadlines, with a healthy cushion against unforseen circumstances, don't you think?

          The landLord's financial situation, as you paint it, sounds dire – hope he has secured his own accommodation at least! As for the thousands of tenants doing it hard in a tight market, this problem has been brewing for ‘some time’, but it does need to be tackled sooner rather than later (or, in the case of National-led governments, not at all !)

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/94936945/govt-spent-record-12m-on-emergency-housing-in-motels-over-last-three-months

          • solkta 12.4.2.2.1
            18 June 2019 at 3:07 pm

            hope he has secured his own accommodation at least!

            You can rest assured that he is warm and cosy inside the tableman's imagination.

          • The Chairman 12.4.2.2.2
            18 June 2019 at 3:21 pm

            He's known since the Government publicly announced what the new criteria would actually be.

            Probably sound business practice to take steps to ensure that your assets are compliant well in advance of deadlines, with a healthy cushion against unforseen circumstances, don't you think?

            Yes, but sometimes contingencies fail to be sufficient as none of us really have a crystal ball for what life is going to throw at us.

            He is likely to sell up. Which will solve his problems, but will be creating his tenants problems. They don't care about the minor current flaws and are more than happy to stay on despite them.

            • arkie 12.4.2.2.2.1
              18 June 2019 at 3:26 pm

              Well the new rules only apply to new tenancies so if the current tenants remain on the same tenancy then the Landlord doesn't have to make the repairs by 1 July. It's all here: https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/insulationdeadline/

              Don't really understand why you're asking us here if you're capable of doing an internet search.

              • WeTheBleeple …
                18 June 2019 at 3:53 pm

                He's searching for bites – bad govt! Naughty govt! That kinda stuff.

              • The Chairman …
                18 June 2019 at 6:51 pm

                The following below is from your link

                Rental homes must meet the insulation standards by 1 July 2019 to avoid $4,000 fines.

                And by the way, the house we are discussing is fully insulated. It's the rangehood etc that it is lacking.

                • arkie …
                  18 June 2019 at 11:01 pm

                  Then you aren’t at risk of a fine, are you? The house meets the insulation standard. There are no other new standards that are coming into effect on 1 July 2019. Faux concern as per usual.

              • Gabby …
                18 June 2019 at 7:16 pm

                So he better make nice and hang onto those tenants then? Could work out well for them.

            • McFlock 12.4.2.2.2.2
              18 June 2019 at 3:26 pm

              My pensioner mum does volunteer work. They provide transport reimbursement which basically comes down to $2 an hour. She's more than happy to take that but minimum wage regs mean that other people aren't forced to.

              Given that the property is not let out at a sustainable amount, maybe he should hike the rent just a touch so after the vents and drainage and guttering are dealt to, there's actually a reserve if the roof springs a leak?

            • Drowsy M. Kram 12.4.2.2.2.3
              18 June 2019 at 3:42 pm

              If the "minor current flaws" mean that the rental property doesn't comply with the The Healthy Homes Guarantee Act (2017), then they're hardly minor, are they? Do the current tenants include children/elderly, or are they all vigorous middle-aged types with no serious ailments?

              And what about the landLord – he's no spring chicken, how’s his health holding up under the stress? Does he perhaps have dependent children, or elderly parents relying on him?

              Your 'scenario' is looking decidedly "soggy", if not fictional. Bit like a home grown Nigerian email scam (apologies to Nigerians).

              Are you, The Chairman, being "more left than most", a supporter of the Healthy Homes Guarantee Act (2017)?

              Would you have voted for it? National and ACT MPs didn't.

        • dv 12.4.2.3
          18 June 2019 at 4:16 pm

          Chairman if you Need advice, more info is needed.

          What are the current valuations of the properties he/she owns?

          What are the mortgages on the owned properties?

          What are the current rentals?

          What are the current outgoings, rates insurance etc.
          What are the quotes for the repairs?
          Is there any history of bad debt/credit?
          Any other relevant info?

    • McFlock 12.5
      18 June 2019 at 2:45 pm

      Fucking typical. Small business owner makes multiple poor business choices, borrows shedloads of cash (either to subsidise a business that isn't making its money back, or because the owner is putting the business into debt to provide short term gain), leaves zero margin for unexpected costs/income gap, waits until the last minute to ask for advice, and then pretends it's the fault of the regulations.

      What if the tenants died? He'd still have to refit the place, and would have no rental income, and still not qualify for a loan.

      Oh, and what WeTheBleeple said.

      • The Chairman 12.5.1
        18 June 2019 at 3:05 pm

        What a load of rubbish. He doesn't own a business

        Life through him a few nasty curveballs at once. It can happen to the best of us at times.

        But that doesn't fit with your narrative of course.

        • McFlock 12.5.1.1
          18 June 2019 at 3:19 pm

          His rental is his business.

          You said he's highly leveraged to the point that he can't get a loan, despite owning at least one rental and probably his own home. This isn't the fault of a regulation change that had months of notice. If he can't maintain it himself or afford to pay others to do so with the income from his investment property, it's not a good investment, is it.

          Curveballs or not, if he's not in a position to install three extractor fans (plus a few hundred for the electrician labour) then he is not in a position do deal with a burst pipe or rats chewing through wiring.

          • The Chairman 12.5.1.1.1
            18 June 2019 at 6:41 pm

            Yes. In that respect the rental is his business. But he has no other businesses and isn't negatively geared.

            I'm not claiming his fiscal position is due to the new regulations, but we do need to ask if the Government gave enough lead in time for landlords? Especially when (as Drowsy M. Kram noted above in their link) there is likely to be around a 100,000 of them.

            • McFlock 12.5.1.1.1.1
              18 June 2019 at 6:50 pm

              No, we really don't.

              Your anecdote is about a guy who owns at least one rental property yet cannot get a small loan to cover some basic maintenance. In addition, he's been renting it out at not just below market rent but below basic maintenance costs for many years.

              Your example is actually almost on the cusp of me suggesting that his tenants have been exploiting his financial naivety (even incompetence) and deserve to be evicted, which is something I never thought I'd say about a landlord.

              And a hundred thousand of those properties coming onto the market would be a good start for lowering housing costs.

              But it's all moot, because as arkie pointed out the 1 july deadline doesn't apply to existing tenancies.

              Get a life.

              • The Chairman …
                18 June 2019 at 9:55 pm

                Despite renting it out at below markets rents, it is profitable while taking into account maintenance and contingency costs. Like I said, life threw him a few nasty curveballs at once, eating into his profit, contingency and maintenance funds. Also his ability to borrow more.

                Shit happens to people at times. Moreover, I'm sure he's not the only one to have shit going on in their lives. Therefore, the Government can't expect everybody to be ready to adapt to new regulations in a short time-frame.

                Jacinda once said Government need to ensure they take people with them. A 100,000 not complying suggests there is an argument they moved to fast this time.

                • The Al1en …
                  18 June 2019 at 10:00 pm

                  Fuck the 100,000. My thoughts are with the 2,3,400,00 who have to live in homes not up to scratch because landlords can't provide fit for purpose decent housing.

                  • The Chairman …
                    18 June 2019 at 10:28 pm

                    My thoughts are with the 2,3,400,00 who have to live in homes not up to scratch because landlords can't provide fit for purpose decent housing.

                    Fine. But while you are thinking of them, think how many of them are going to be pissed off if they face big rent increases and perhaps flat hunting as a consequence.

                    Everyone I've seen in the media complaining about their poor quality rental have all said they can't afford to rent somewhere better.

                    So what do you think will happen to their quality of life? Diets tend to be the first place where people make cut backs. Which tends to lead to poor health.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 June 2019 at 10:35 pm

                      Yeah, that's the nat line you've been wanting to push all day. Objective achieved, though a bit shit to use tenants to make your point for you, when you know as I do there just pawns in your game plan. Typical nat.

                  • The Chairman …
                    19 June 2019 at 9:37 am

                    Saying it's a Nat line doesn't invalidate it. In fact, the fact that the concern is valid (well, perhaps not for the Nats but for us on the left) is what gives it strength.

                    Moreover, if you genuinely cared about the tenants well-being you would have acknowledged the potential plight they face as a result.

                    Kiwibuild freeing up rentals and state housing were said to help offset soaring rents. But as we've seen, the Government is struggling to get any decent traction on Kiwibuild and state housing can't even keep up with past demand, let alone the flood this is expected to create.

                    Removing cheap rentals from an already overheated market while driving up the cost of decent ones is pouring fuel on the fire. It's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion. Meanwhile, you and the Government look the other way. With you, putting it down to being just a Nat line.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      19 June 2019 at 9:44 am

                      Three years for ceiling and underfloor insulation is plenty of time in anyone's language and this was set by the previous government. One of the only forward thinking things they did.

                      If amateur landlords can't organise a 3K 50% subsidised spend over three years they they shouldn't be in the market.

                      Further, you don't help tenants by artificial setting their rent well below market rate. A decent landlord would have done the responsible thing and had it close to market rent and if that was not achievable by the tenant, encouraged them to go on the HNZ list.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 9:57 am

                      It invalidates you all right, though, easy as.

                      You can blab on about the plight of the tenants, but all you seem to have done is whine about the expense of getting houses fit for purpose. Simple point is, if you can't make homes available to rent, then get out of the way.

                      Speaking to your Nat agenda, yes, some renters will have to pay more, a lot renters if the owners are unscrupulous wankers who have already been charging too much for what are, for all intent and purpos, sub standard dwellings.

                      That doesn't make labour wrong, the policy a bad one or cause to toss off on others misfortune… Like you do. So what now? The people here have spoken and you are, unsurprisingly, an army of one.

                      Next shill, please.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:01 am

                      On a slow tablet and the spelling errors and missed words can't be edited away. Suck it grammar nazis lol

                    • The Chairman …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:06 am

                      With soaring rents being a driver of poverty, you don't believe below market rents helps tenants live a better quality of live?

                      Just about everybody is complaining about the high cost of rentals and here I highlight a landlord who is charging below market value and a number of you claim he should be charging more. Then, I expect they will go back to chanting greedy landlords.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:12 am

                      Yeah yeah, keep spinning, tory.
                      You’ve highlighted an owner letting a place with ventilation, kitchen, bathroom and laundry issues. If the tenants want to accept below reg housing, they can, but it doesn’t make it correct and soon, not legal.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:13 am

                      Charging well under market rent is not sustainable for landlord or tenant – clearly, as your fictional scenario shows.

                      This is the free market world we are all forced to live in and unless you are proposing that is all torn down then that is the way people are forced to live.

                      What is being done is to try to ensure children are not brought up in cold, damp conditions. Something, strangely, which you promote.

                      I suspect you lack empathy, and this is further proved by your heavy smoking, dismissive as it is of the cost you will inevitably burden society with.

                      Shame on you.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:18 am

                      Tears for a clown

                  • The Chairman …
                    19 June 2019 at 10:27 am

                    Simple point is, if you can't make homes available to rent, then get out of the way.

                    That's the most likely out come for him. And no doubt others. Which was the reason behind the thread. It's not that he will have a problem once he's sold up, it's the tenants that will.

                    Once he sells, the rent on the place (if relet) will soar.

                    You say:

                    Some renters will have to pay more, a lot renters if the owners are unscrupulous wankers…

                    Then go on to say:

                    That doesn't make labour wrong

                    Removing cheap rentals from an already overheated market and driving up the cost of decent ones while having no plan (or in this case having the wheels of the plan fall off) to deal with the mess is all good in your eyes?

                    As for what now, we await to see what the Government is going to do about it. If they can't foresee the train wreck happening, then we are all in big trouble as society continues on that than downward spiral which Labour can't seem to stem.

                    • marty mars …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:40 am

                      lol give it up idiot – YOU are the landlord – own up there laddie

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 10:41 am

                      Well you appear to want to let tenants live in broken homes if they don't mind paying less. Why would I give a crap about your relentless anti government propaganda?

                      Some people also accept living in garages. I guess you find that okay too, if they're prepared to do it for the outlay.

                      Two faced double speak, sacrificing renters, to take pot shots at labour. Any left leaning voter would welcome the work done by the greens and labour on this issue, but not you, you're worried about the owners expenses and the 'trouble down the line'.

                      You make civility difficult to practice, especially as you claim to be more left than most, but unlike you, I'm cut from a tougher, different cloth – more denim than Nat blue taffeta.

                  • The Chairman …
                    19 June 2019 at 10:37 am

                    If the tenants want to accept below reg housing, they can, but it doesn’t make it correct and soon, not legal.

                    Robbing struggling tenants of that option. Yeah, I guess that fits with Labours deserving attitude when it comes to who they look after. Where those on the bottom don't seem to count.

                    This will however result in Landords with decent properties seeing their cheaper competition removed.

                    Highlighting who Labour is really looking out for.

                  • The Chairman …
                    19 June 2019 at 3:37 pm

                    When it comes to rental options, I want tenants to remain to have the choice.

                    As for more people staying in garages, well, that along with overcrowded housing and more people living in cars is a likely result of removing cheap rentals from an already overheated market.

                    Therefore, it seems that's what you actually want.

                    As for any left leaning voter welcoming the work done by the Greens and Labour on this issue, yes most would. However, there are two related issues here not one. Better quality rentals and soaring rents. So while the Government has addressed one, its wheels have fallen off to address the latter. Yet, that hasn't deterred them from charging on, thinking people must have good quality rentals regardless if they can afford them.

                    • McFlock …
                      19 June 2019 at 3:45 pm

                      Thanks for your concern.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 4:56 pm

                      Like most of his nat talking points he, for one more left than most, has been all over the place on this one. Quite frankly it's embarrassing. Preserving the right of tenants to get ripped off for sub standard accommodation by landlords willing to take advantage and exploit them 🙄

                      Absolute zero credibility.

                    • The Chairman …
                      19 June 2019 at 5:27 pm

                      Preserving the right of tenants to get ripped off for sub standard accommodation by landlords willing to take advantage and exploit them

                      What total rubbish. I'm not advocating that. Hence, it's you that has absolutely zero credibility.

                      Seems you like to appeal to the ignorant. I'm advocating allowing tenants to maintain having a choice. If someone is happy to stay in a cheaper rental, that should be their choice.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 5:41 pm

                      And if the cheaper rental is substandard, by not meeting totally acceptable legal requirements, then "Preserving the right of tenants to get ripped off for sub standard accommodation by landlords willing to take advantage and exploit them" is 100% an accurate summary of your position and exposes you to rightful ridicule.

                    • The Chairman …
                      19 June 2019 at 5:56 pm

                      More rubbish.

                      Seems you can't stop yourself from lying.

                      If the cheaper rental is in such a substandard state that the potential tenant doesn't want it, then like I said, it's their choice. They can simply walk away.

                      You are exposing yourself to ridicule.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 6:03 pm

                      "Preserving the right of tenants to get ripped off for sub standard accommodation by landlords willing to take advantage and exploit them"

                      And you want this to happen if the tenants want to stay, never mind the property isn't up to code.

                      "If the cheaper rental is in such a substandard state that the potential tenant doesn't want it, then like I said, it's their choice. They can simply walk away."

                      Obviously you won't admit how in just a few back and forth posts, you're denying exactly the point I've made by offering the same point as your defence.

                      I'm not gonna call you an idiot, but I can't help it if other people reading think it. Crikey 🙄 😆

                    • The Chairman …
                      19 June 2019 at 6:20 pm

                      And you want this to happen if the tenants want to stay

                      No. That is incorrect. Because if the tenant decided to stay, then they would have weighed up the cost and condition of the property. Meaning, they haven't been "ripped off", taken advantage of or exploited.

                      I'm not only denying your point, I've shown it to be wrong.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 6:25 pm

                      I think the hole you've found yourself in is deep enough already without me throwing more spade work at it.

                      Good work, champ, your best yet. yes

                    • The Chairman …
                      19 June 2019 at 6:31 pm

                      You're the one digging holes and falling into them.

                    • The Al1en …
                      19 June 2019 at 6:53 pm

                      Given the weight of evidence in my favour, I reject the premise of your observation.

                • McFlock …
                  18 June 2019 at 10:26 pm

                  If shit happened to the level that he can't even use his speculative income property as collateral for a couple of grand, he's probably only kept afloat by our low interest rates.

                  This has nothing to do with housing regulations and everything to do with people getting up to their neck in debt to stay on the property ladder while not treating it as a business.

                  He needs to sell the house and pay off his current debts, or figure out how to keep the tenants from dropping a dime on him before he can upgrade the property to spec.

                  Hell, he might even consider selling the property to the tenants..

                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  18 June 2019 at 10:47 pm

                  The Chairman, who described themself as "more left than most", has chosen to suggest that there is an argument that the current coalition Government has "moved to [sic] fast this time."

                  After 20+ comments submitted to bolster that “soggy” thesis, would The Chairman care to comment on the National party's 'performance' on this issue over the last decade – not enough action, too much too fast, or about 'right'?

                  Don't trouble yourself too much – given the evident importance of this issue to you, it should be a simple matter to link to your critical analysis of the National party's performance in government.

                  “as transparent as a transparent thing.“

                  • McFlock …
                    18 June 2019 at 10:59 pm

                    I do wonder whether TC, had the government declared a date later than 1 July, would be praising the government's sensible caution, or would he instead be saying it doesn't go far enough and it's not a good look.

                    Just one of life's mysteries, I guess, to which we will never know the answer…

    • AB 12.6
      18 June 2019 at 3:13 pm

      The bank should forgive the loan to the landlord and the landlord should give the house to the tenants. That gets that landlord out of the rental-owning game without going bankrupt but with zero tax-free capital gain, the tenants get a nice house and the bank pays. If it's the ANZ all the better. Seems like justice all round.

    • Brigid 12.7
      18 June 2019 at 5:13 pm

      Jesus christ if said landlord cannot afford to retrofit these houses as the law demands he must simply sell them. But he will have difficulty selling them with substandard insulation.

      So damn. Sucks to be him.

      You could remind him that he can be fined $4000 for NOT retrofitting with insulation that the law requires, and still be required have the insulation installed.

      I have not a shred of sympathy for him, but loads for the tenant who he expects to put up with his nasty cold house.

      Has it occurred to him to buy the insulation from the nearest hardware outlet and do the damn job himself?

    • Sabine 12.8
      18 June 2019 at 6:50 pm

      highly leveraged you say?

      Poor thing, what did you do? get a second mortgage for a boat? a few overseas holidays? a new car? some fancy schnick schnack for the missus? a few others houses? Who cares. Only an idiot would still be 'leveraged ' on a property where he had tenants in for the last twenty years paying the mortgage.

      So really, sell your property if you can't be a law abiding landlord and leave it to those who can.

      Any thoughts?

  13. Observer Tokoroa 13
    18 June 2019 at 2:47 pm

    "Our child the Chairman"

    Tell your friend to send his wife to work and earn a few bob.

    Just like you do. Lazy Chairperson.

    Making fun of people who are at the mercy of NZ Landlords Mr Chairman, is not funny any more. You piece of National Scum.

  14. Morrissey 14
    18 June 2019 at 5:28 pm

    Found him! The world's worst TV interviewer.

    His name is Jorge Ramos, and he makes Mike Hosking look like John Pilger….

  15. sumsuch 15
    18 June 2019 at 11:11 pm

    Not straightforward to join Kiwiblog. He's by all definition a strange man, Farrar. That these pricks get more comments than the left blogs is a tribute to reactionaryism. Or prejudices.

  16. Eco maori 16
    19 June 2019 at 11:41 am

    This is why Eco Maori backs our Aotearoa Farmers 1 they are the backbone of Aotearoa economy 2 they produce the best food in the Papatuanuku 3 you don't eat the goose that lays OUR Golden eggs the reason why we have a higher living standard than most other countries is our farmers and horticultural Aotearoa is one of a few places on Papatuanuku were you can get 2 to 3 harvest in one year we have a long natural growing season with a mild stable environment that is one advantage the other is our relatively clean environment. Yes Dairy has made a bit of a mess in some places but they are cleaning up there ACT. Eco Maori say point the finger at national for the mess we see now as before national came to power there were heaps of farmers being made example for not adhering to their local council environment laws. 2 years in national rule no one being held accountable for the mess they made on their farm and waterways. In the early days Aotearoa had the highest living standards in the Papatuanuku because of sheep beef and dairy farming that's a FACT.

    Farmers already doing their bit to reduce greenhouse gases

    Pastoral agriculture earns about half of New Zealand's merchandise exports each year. Even our politicians on the left acknowledge the value of meat, wool and milk to our economy.

    That is real productivity and monetary income. Not earned by shifting funds with changing exchange rates or shares. No other country in the world is undermining it's main export industry. No other country in the world is targeting reduction in ruminant numbers New Zealand farmers are already unfairly competing with countries where farmers rely on significant subsidies. Factoring more inequality into that equation eventually results in our products not being competitively priced. And yet our grass-based, low supplementary systems are the most efficient in the world Pastoral farmers total 2 per cent of NZ population, contribute 49 per cent of our country's merchandise exports in 2018, up from 45.4 per cent in 1991. And produced this on 24 per cent less total area as grapes, lifestyle blocks and urban spread takes over traditional pasture paddocks. New Zealanders have a high standard of living based on this productivity

    So picture this small industrious group who are a major contributor to economic stability of NZ, have already significantly reduced GHG due to lower stock numbers and created huge increases in efficiency. But yet this achievement attracts no appreciation

    Ka kite ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/113533537/farmers-already-doing-their-bit-to-reduce-greenhouse-gases#comments

  17. Eco maori 17
    19 June 2019 at 1:27 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/5Yj4j_lZMBo

    It gives Eco Maori a sore face listening to Radio Ngati Porou and hearing all Maoridom new up and coming leaders speak their minds and reality Kia kaha

  18. Eco maori 18
    19 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    I have been on that train crossing in Te Puke it's sad to see those people who passed in the crash.

    That would have given those people on the Air Balloon a shock when the Balloon draped over high voltage power lines.

    I don't no what went wrong in North Land with the meningococcal vaccine not being given to all tamariki it should have been.????.

    The Americas Cup brings in the big punters and promotes Aotearoa to the Papatuanuku.

    Some how I think that a redneck right is throwing a spanner in the works of Kiwi rail to put people off our move to mass transport that the way I see it.

    Samantha it looks like there's something in the wai at Newshub you have 3 others who have gifts from God 4 in all ka pai ka kite ano

  19. Eco maori 19
    19 June 2019 at 6:52 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori news.

    It looks like they had a good poroporoaki and hakari for the sending off of Hupa Man Jim it's sad to see Maoridom great leaders passing.

    Eco Maori just hopes they make good informed decisions about Oranga tamariki.

    Kia ora Peter Smith you have raised a concern of Eco Maori I didn't like the way Ngataa Love was treated by the system I raised my concerns about the way he was treated one of our great Maori leaders passed because of the way he was treated its cool you are looking after your health bro.

    Nib I think it's is very important for people to have whanau tau toko when raising Pepi that's the old Maori ways .

    Yes I was listening to our rangitahi speaches in Ruatoria on Radio Ngati Porou . To much to hear Ngati Porou new up and coming leaders speak I quite proud of them all .

    Ka kite ano

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