Open mike 18/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 18th, 2024 - 82 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

82 comments on “Open mike 18/11/2024 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    18 November 2024 at 8:46 am

    Norman Finkelstein: "She wasn't a zero, she was a minus one."

    link

    • Tiger Mountain 1.1
      18 November 2024 at 10:43 am

      Note to Morrissey and other YouTube posters…

      Not sure about others, but I do not view sodding YT vids unless the poster has the courtesy to write an introductory sentence…e.g. “this clip shows blah blah about blah blah, good bit kicks in at 5:19…”

      • Tony Veitch 1.1.1
        18 November 2024 at 10:47 am

        yes

      • Morrissey 1.1.2
        18 November 2024 at 10:55 am

        I did precisely that. Dr. Finkelstein's assessment of Kamala Harris's disastrous campaign was a pithy, if cruel, summing up of the reason for what happened twelve days ago. His talk in the video expatiates on that. Once again: “She wasn’t a zero, she was a minus one.”

        • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2.1
          18 November 2024 at 12:06 pm

          “Finkelstein: She wasn’t a zero, she was a minus one.” [Morrissey @1]

          So, according to Finkelstein, "she was a minus one." But which 'she'?

          “She [Harris] wasn’t a zero, she was a minus one.”

          Was blind, but now I see.

      • weka 1.1.3
        18 November 2024 at 11:16 am

        completely agree, have changed the embed to a link. Most people will scroll on by now and perhaps Morrissey and others will figure out how to speak to this particular audience (or will use their FB page instead).

      • weston 1.1.4
        18 November 2024 at 12:00 pm

        Just for you then TM here is an account of the death of the palestinian surgeon dr Adnan Bursh in an Israeli prison .Theres no " good bit " but the vid is very short so shouldnt strain anyones attention span overly .



        • Jenny 1.1.4.1
          18 November 2024 at 4:04 pm

          Israel's Defence Minister Yoav Galant told us;

          "We are fighting human animals"

          Human animals don't have the intelligence to be Drs. let alone surgeons. Adnan Al-Bursh is a terrorist posing as a Dr.

          We also know Adnan Al-Bursh was told to leave and didn't. This means that at the very least Al-Bursh is a 'terrorist partner'.

          Israel tells Gazans to move south or risk being seen as 'terrorist' partner

          By Reuters

          October 22, 2023 9:31 PM GMT

          GAZA, Oct 22 (Reuters) – Palestinians said they had received renewed warnings from Israel's military to move from north Gaza to the south of the strip, with the added warning that they could be identified as sympathisers with a "terrorist organisation" if they stayed put…….

          https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-tells-gazans-move-south-or-risk-being-seen-terrorist-partner-2023-10-22/

          Al-Bursh was not just a terrorist, but an extremely hardened terrorist. Even under the most extreme humiliation and torture, the terrorist Al-Bursh refused to give up the location of his terrorist command post hidden in his terrorist hospital.

          '

          24/7, 365 – One Whole Year of genocide

          G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E, G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E, G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E

          @0:39 minutes:
          Girls with no legs on their Death Beds.

          Heads without skulls, hollowed out holes, where there were Souls, dreams, goals.

          A father's last cuddle in a blood soaked puddle.

          A ghostly grey child hangs plucked from the rubble…

      • Jenny 1.1.5
        18 November 2024 at 12:46 pm

        Good tip TM

        These days, most YT videos come with an AI generated transcript. I find it helps to go the extra mile to cut and past and edit, at least a small part of this transcript, to help explain what is in the video. (The machine generated transcripts are usually pretty dire, so I try to match the machine transcript to the analogue audio as best I can. Hopefully by doing this, people like yourself TM might take the time and trouble to watch the whole thing. Or even if not able to watch the whole thing might get something out of the transcript)

  2. Macro 2
    18 November 2024 at 8:48 am

    Equity and equality are different concepts, even though they can both contribute to fairness:

    Equity: Recognizes that people have different needs and circumstances, and provides resources and opportunities to help everyone achieve equal outcomes.

    Equality: Treats everyone the same, regardless of their needs or other differences

    Seymour doesn't know the difference.

    • Dennis Frank 2.2
      18 November 2024 at 2:10 pm

      They're both abstract concepts, sometimes seen to be operating principles in decision-making but more often as ideals. Realism usually defeats both.

      Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, remarked in an article in The New York Times that everyone wanted to break it down into contrasts of idealist and realist, but "if you had to put him in a category, he's probably more realpolitik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

      I'm reading a relevant library book which specifies outrage as primate behaviour – inherited genetically: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018811019/tim-dean-is-it-time-to-ditch-our-outdated-moral-beliefs

      Scientists have documented it in various primate species. Relevant to equity/equality is the throwing away of a piece of cucumber by a capuchin monkey enraged after observing another being given a grape. In terms of economic rationality, the value of the grape is seemingly greater than a slice of cucumber, but the outrage is emotional.

      The author makes the point that the notable toxicity of social media in the past decade or two proceeds from similar knee-jerk outrage. He hasn't yet postulated primate mental algorithms but I presume he will eventually. Neuroscientists have long known about the limbic system (intermediary in the triune brain paradigm triad) so I suspect he will anchor it in there somewhere.

      The economy is driven by the money triad (medium of exchange, store of value, unit of account) so such an algorithm roots our economic behaviour in primate evolution.

      • Macro 2.2.1
        18 November 2024 at 3:05 pm

        And how does that address the fundamental flaw in the Treaty Principle Bill of Seymour's which only wants to treat all in Aotearoa as equal and does nothing to address the fundamental inequalities of our country. Nor the fact that Maori were deprived not only of their land and livelihood but also of their culture and language for decades. And the government has only in the past 50 years or so attempted to do anything about it.

        That's the equity bit that Seymour and his echo chamber fail to understand.

        By wanting only to treat everyone as equal he fails to recognize the systemic inequity which the Treaty aims to address.

        • Dennis Frank 2.2.1.1
          18 November 2024 at 3:18 pm

          how does that address the fundamental flaw

          First, I agree fully with your outline of the ethical dimension & diagnosis of his zealotry. Some folks are incapable of nuance & the grasp of deep context.

          Second, rightist entitlement derives from power relations. Hazarding a guess, likely to derive from much earlier in mammal origins than primates. Just look at all other animal species that have social dynamics driven by power relations.

          Third, behavioural response to his bill is likely to be driven by our collective need for peaceful co-existence. We only flip toward violence collectively when we share a perceived threat to us. So while a haka (as performance art) seems to threaten violence, folks mostly interpret it as ritual. Seymour, I suspect, reads it as diversion from intellectual engagement with his challenge. He doesn't seem to realise most players see use of the intellect as not a fun game, and applying it to his proposal as a tedious waste of time…

        • Muttonbird 2.2.1.2
          18 November 2024 at 3:29 pm

          Can't find it now but in response to Shipley's comments yesterday he says 'he's not responsible for division, rather he's revealed it'.

          He has revealed it, but 'it' is his own work. Yes, there was division before, resentment and racism from conservative Pakeha, and resentment and protest from disenfranchised Maori. These were slowly being worked through.

          Not good enough for Seymour who whipped up the resentment and racism from conservative Pakeha and betrayed and angered Maori. This is the 'it' he revealed, division manufactured by himself.

          The real kicker is his solution. No compromise; non-Maori get to keep all their statistical privilege , while Maori must give up their gains.

    • Lebleaux 2.3
      18 November 2024 at 3:19 pm

      “Equity and equality are different concepts, even though they can both contribute to fairness:

      Equity: Recognizes that people have different needs and circumstances, and provides resources and opportunities to help everyone achieve equal outcomes.

      Equality: Treats everyone the same, regardless of their needs or other differences

      Seymour doesn’t know the difference”.

      Unfortunately because we are human the two are mutually exclusive – if you want equal outcomes you can't have equal opportunity. If you want equal opportunity you wont get equal outcomes. Some people are just better at 'stuff' than others, regardless of what the 'stuff' may happen to be.

      • Muttonbird 2.3.1
        18 November 2024 at 3:35 pm

        Indeed, but we are forced to live in this particular society, so there is no choice but to be good at the stuff prescribed by western neoliberal order, if one is enjoy basic needs.

        Therefore, the western neoliberal order which dictates our lives must provide the difference. Social security, public services, etc are the current model, but is it enough?

      • Macro 2.3.2
        18 November 2024 at 4:42 pm

        The Treaty didn't come out of nowhere. There's plenty of evidence that the people responsible for the promotion and enactment of the Abolition of Slavery Act in Britain in1833 – The Clapham Sect – were also concerned wrt the treatment of indigenous peoples by British colonists and were determined to try to limit the excesses, and the deprivations that ensued following colonisation. Williams who drafted the te reo version of the Treaty was sponsored by the CMS funded by the Clapham Sect, William Wilberforce was a patron until his death in the 1830's. A nephew of Wilberforce drafted the letter to Hobson outlining the need for a Treaty. The first of it's kind.

        So despite the fact that within 3 years of it's signing the Treaty was dishonored by the very Government which was created under it's terms. The principles remain. That is to protect indigenous rights and land and culture. That was it's essence and so it remains.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    18 November 2024 at 9:05 am

    Global market whacks kiwi neolibs with 10% penalty fine: https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/15/trump-election-prompts-significant-downgrade-of-kiwi-dollar/

    BNZ had expected the US dollar to broadly weaken next year, pulling up the value of the Kiwi and other major currencies against it. Under that scenario, BNZ expected the Kiwi to be trading up towards US63 cents to US64 cents by the middle of next year. However BNZ now expects the Kiwi to fall to US55 cents early next year, or even lower

    All kiwi exporters will suffer to the tune of 10% reduced value if the experts are correct. Since they do their trades on faith in neoliberalism, their commercial viability in this imbalance scenario looms as a severe test in their faith.

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    18 November 2024 at 9:16 am

    Harman reckons Seymour has his teeth in the soft underbelly of the National Party:

    Former National Prime Minister, Jenny Shipley, told RNZ on Saturday that ACT was “inviting civil war” with its attempt to define the principles of the Treaty. https://www.politik.co.nz/nationals-support-base-is-wobbling/ | Politik

    He has a theory that TMP performance art in parliament is just as offensive as JAG was so the Speaker is trying to dodge a quandary:

    The Speaker, Gerry Brownlee, told POLITIK last night he couldn’t check his inbox remotely, so he was unaware of any letters from MPs alleging a breach of privilege by the Haka. The non-accessible inbox may allow Brownlee to play for time as he tries to find a way through the situation

    Dear me, what a contretemps!

    In some ways it could become reminiscent of the 1981 Springbok tour but that only lasted eight weeks and then the Springboks left the country. Perhaps, if National’s support base starts to wobble, the Government might decide that six months at the Select Committee will be too long.

    Depends how many Nat MPs are wannabe dog tucker, I guess. Wee Seymour the chihuahua may not have a bark worse than his bite…

    • Visubversa 4.1
      18 November 2024 at 10:01 am

      I can check my in-box remotely on my phone. What is so special about Parliamentary communications that the Speaker cannot?

      • weka 4.1.1
        18 November 2024 at 11:17 am

        also, pretty sure he has staff.

      • Belladonna 4.1.2
        18 November 2024 at 1:27 pm

        Possibly IT security.
        Not all systems allow remote access – especially those which might be vulnerable to hacking (or who have users who are not entirely tech savvy).
        Some allow remote access only from a set IP address (e.g. home IT supplied laptop) – but not on mobile devices (e.g. phones).

        I'm not saying that this *is* the case with Brownlee – and indeed it may be a 'kick to touch' comment.

        However, IT security for Parliament – and especially preventing sensitive Speaker coms from leaking or being hacked – is a very legitimate concern.

    • Muttonbird 4.2
      18 November 2024 at 10:20 am

      Harman falls into the same camp as yourself and Seymour. That the parliament haka was "exactly the same as JAG v Doocey', and it was 'performance art', and 'a ridiculous war dance'.

      Some white people flatly refuse to acknowledge Te ao Māori as legitimate and delight in belittling it.

      • Dennis Frank 4.2.1
        18 November 2024 at 10:40 am

        smiley Google's AI presents us with this:

        Te ao Māori is the Māori worldview, which is a holistic perspective that emphasizes the interconnectedness of all things, both living and non-living. It is based on tikanga, or customary values and lore, and mātauranga, or Māori knowledge.

        The Green view, which I acquired in 1968, also advocates holism whilst emphasising interconnectedness of all things. It's absolutely spiffing that these two belief systems coincide on these two points. Would be real cool if leftists were to join us on that but I've never seen any do so onsite here so I must categorise them as slow learners. However you seem a promising exception, so I will encourage you to be brave and become the first cab off that rank. Kia kaha!

        • Incognito 4.2.1.1
          18 November 2024 at 8:40 pm

          Would be real cool if leftists were to join us on that but I've never seen any do so onsite here so I must categorise them as slow learners.

          You must think that you’re special and above everyone else here, but you’re not and your selective memory of this site serves your patronising narrative.

          You must not jump to the conclusion that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, as this would prove your flawed binary logic and reasoning.

          You must stop taking your own brain farts as pearls of wisdom to be spread far & wide and shared with all humankind and particularly with the under-evolved inferior ‘slow-learners’ of the lefty species.

          We must not come to believe and accept that you have supra-human insights that we should be in awe of and pay any attention to.

          We must be getting almightily tired of your boring attention-seeking behaviour.

          You must be getting the gist, by now.

      • joe90 4.2.2
        18 November 2024 at 2:37 pm

        Harman falls into the same camp as yourself and Seymour.

        Thick white bread unable to parse Ka Mate as a celebration of endurance and survival.

        • tWig 4.2.2.1
          18 November 2024 at 3:09 pm

          Not to mention marae protocol: aggressive challenge does not lead to violence, but is an opening to debate and discussion. The passive-aggressive nature of NZ white culture inherited from the English middle-classes means mainstream Pakeha often see challenge not as critique, but as negation of themselves.

          Growing up with a slavic background, I never got that must be nice-to-your-face, but OK to rip-to-shreds someone behind their back thingie, either. Also, what's it with small-talk?

    • Obtrectator 4.3
      18 November 2024 at 4:28 pm

      "In some ways it could become reminiscent of the 1981 Springbok tour but that only lasted eight weeks and then the Springboks left the country."

      But the after-effects lasted for several months after the 'Boks voertsek'd back to the "Reperblik". Notably at that year's GE.

      • Dennis Frank 4.3.1
        18 November 2024 at 4:59 pm

        True, but I thought it significant that he even made the analogy in the first place. I have no personal interactions with rightists nowadays so I just extrapolate from the past – inertia rules rightists way more than anyone else. That he & Shipley are sensing disquiet amongst the inert surprises me.

    • SPC 5.1
      18 November 2024 at 12:19 pm

      The legislation being introduced to parliament and Seymour being deputy PM are part of the coalition agreement.

      It is now clear that this is a role he is unfit for.

      It is also becoming apparent he is in opposition to National's past and present policy and is running an insurgency from within government.

      An intelligent PM would shorten the SC process.

  6. Bearded Git 6
    18 November 2024 at 10:32 am

    The Listener sums up the nightmare that is COC-here are a few excerpts:

    "More bills – 21 – were debated under urgency in the first three months of its term than by any other government in decades.

    The plug was swiftly pulled on new Interislander ferries, fair-pay agreements and oil and gas exploration bans, and two new laws crafted by Labour to replace the creaky Resource Management Act were ditched without a moment’s hesitation (let alone consultation), as was legislation requiring Inland Revenue to report on the fairness or otherwise of the tax system.

    In quick succession over the next few months, out went Labour’s revised Three Waters plan, Auckland light rail, the Productivity Commission, the Māori Health Authority, the spending of $1.5 billion on public transport, cycling and walking. In came tax cuts, $2.9 billion worth of tax deductibility for landlords over four years, and plans for 15 new Roads of National Significance. Drive, they said – and faster, with Labour’s speed limit restrictions on local streets and highways to be reversed next year despite evidence this will lead to more road deaths.

    One of the coalition’s less-publicised but more cold-blooded moves has been to switch the indexation of benefit rates from wages to inflation – in other words, benefits will still go up each year, but by much less than had they stayed indexed to wages. It’s been estimated this will save the government $670 million over the next four years; $670m that could have gone into the pockets of some of the country’s poorest.

    Allowing landlords to, eventually, write off 100% of their mortgage interest costs when it comes to calculating their tax – a move that over the next four years will, in effect, give property investors $2.9b (pretty much the amount the government says it can’t afford to spend on rebuilding Dunedin Hospital to the standard it promised last year).

    Meanwhile, the bulk of the much-vaunted tax cuts (which will cost the country $14.7b over four years) benefited people in higher income brackets…

    The guiding principle of the proposed new resource management regime is the “enjoyment of property rights”. When presented with a development project for fast-track approval, economic development will take precedence over environmental considerations."

    Then there is the attack on te Tiriti and Maori in general….the list is endless.

  7. Reality 7
    18 November 2024 at 10:32 am

    David Seymour is hellbent on causing mayhem in National's ranks. The Herald reports his ZB interview which will be raising alarm. He is getting really down and dirty. What a horrible human being he is.

    Luxon should withdraw Seymour's bill from the select committee process, if that is legal. As it is now there will be six months of Seymour hogging attention constantly.

    Maintaining cohesion within the coalition ranks will be difficult, especially when Seymour is deputy PM.

    • Muttonbird 7.1
      18 November 2024 at 10:47 am

      Richard Harman alludes to the possibility of cutting the select committee short. As per National's excuses for bring the reading forward two weeks to when Luxton was out of the country, 'parliamentary process changes all the time', so I think they can do what they want.

      But if we think Seymour is angry and malevolent now, if the Nats binned the select committee, he'd go nuclear.

      • SPC 7.1.1
        18 November 2024 at 12:31 pm

        Harmon is offering CLuxon this advice because it is already thinking in their caucus.

        National's want is to retain their settler vote, but of more recent times manage a relationship with Maori (the Hunn era last phase of assimilation of Maori within settler rule, being urbanisation, ended with Bastion Point).

        ACT want a return to assimilation.

        It is one in breach of our signing of UNDRIP at the UN (just as they reject our signing of the Paris Accord).

        It's practice by a party intending a sell out to foreign capital is indicative that Seymour is not loyal to the New Zealand nation/to any nation state, but an international ideology of the surpremacy of capital in the order of society.

      • Incognito 7.1.2
        18 November 2024 at 1:17 pm

        Harman never said or suggested that the haka was ‘performance art’ that was ‘just as offensive’; those were words made up by DF who tried to put them into Harman’s mouth, so he could he [DF] could score a few lazy points again.

        Neither Harman nor DF mentioned ‘a ridiculous war dance’!?

    • Kay 7.2
      18 November 2024 at 11:28 am

      Do you think if the entire country just ignores Seymour (especially the media), that he'll just go away?

      Just a pathetic little man craving attention, and we're giving it to him.

      • Anne 7.2.1
        18 November 2024 at 5:15 pm

        It's not so much that 'we' are giving it to him, but the media who hang around him like a bunch of slavering hounds. They are acting as his enablers and its time they were clipped around their collective ears.

  8. Muttonbird 8
    18 November 2024 at 10:50 am

    This is weird, Coldplay's music sends me into a coma.

    Dylan Bode, man woken from coma by Coldplay, shares story behind duet with Chris Martin at Eden Park

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/dylan-bode-man-woken-from-coma-by-coldplay-shares-story-behind-duet-with-chris-martin-at-eden-park/JNILAKNWPRFIFDGFTEMYLAFJQY/

    • weka 8.1
      18 November 2024 at 11:19 am

      probably heard that the stars were shining for him and decided to come back.

      • Janes Thrace [Please fix the typo in your user handle] 8.1.1
        18 November 2024 at 11:39 am

        Sorry, but I don’t know what this is a reference to Weka. Why would hearing about stars shining make him decide to come back? Is this some arcane reference or an inside joke?

        Ive never listened to coldplay but if listening to them made this guy awaken from a coma, that’s only a good thing.

        [Please fix the typo in your user handle, thanks – Incognito]

        • Incognito 8.1.1.1
          18 November 2024 at 12:57 pm

          Mod note

        • weka 8.1.1.2
          18 November 2024 at 1:55 pm

          it's from an iconic Cold Play song call Yellow. The world is divided into three groups: people who like CP, people who loathe them, and those that don't know.

          There’s a whole meme in hating on CP. I was taking a wee satirical dig at MB for being in that group.

          It’s a lovely song,

          https://youtu.be/yKNxeF4KMsY?si=5zrFTKdJPpUFgAhj

          • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.2.1
            18 November 2024 at 2:47 pm

            The world is divided into three groups: people who like CP, people who loathe them, and those that don't know.

            Someone had to replace Everclear.

          • SPC 8.1.1.2.2
            18 November 2024 at 3:17 pm

            The reviews.

            Having received numerous accolades in recognition of their impact across the music industry, Coldplay are often labeled as successors to U2 as the biggest band in the world.

            But ColdPlay also seems to lack much of anything ELSE in their songs that is surprising or interesting or makes you sit up and take notice, it all blends into the background for me like elevator music and feels like music people would play when what they really want to do is something other than listening to music.

            I don't remember ever listening to their music (or that of Everclear).

      • I Feel Love 8.1.2
        18 November 2024 at 12:24 pm

        I did see a thing on Instagram or something recently & it was about someone being woken from a coma after someone played Coldplay & the person who was in a coma said "oh please turn that awful music off".

  9. SPC 9
    18 November 2024 at 11:21 am

    Russia attacks the entire Ukraine power supply system.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c206l3qgnx2o

    Biden has responded by allowing Ukraine to use missiles in the Kursk region.

    That is the sort of weakness which led to the attack on Ukraine.

    Anything less than the OK to attack any Russian capability to attack the Ukrainian energy system, is enabling Putin to continue on that course.

    In so doing, Biden is betraying those in Ukraine and Gaza at the same time – truly the winter of his career.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjdl98dk40gt

  10. Dennis Frank 10
    18 November 2024 at 12:38 pm

    Deep state audit could achieve credibility in 2028: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-fails-7th-audit-row-unable-fully-account-824b-budget

    The Pentagon failed its seventh consecutive audit on Friday as the agency was unable to fully account for its massive $824 billion budget, though officials were confident the Department of Defense "has turned a corner" in understanding its budgetary challenges going forward.

    Controllers are understandably reluctant to accept that they become accountable for wasting taxpayer dollars – the system has never held them to account before, so why start now? The hearts of taxpayers may bleed in anguish, but I doubt it.

    It's important that the left & right remain in solidarity, supporting the status quo. It's their job. If it requires fakery to achieve a semi-plausible account, do it now. Kicking the can down the road yet again just multiplies those who believe the left & right are fos…

  11. SPC 11
    18 November 2024 at 12:48 pm

    Is Atlas Network a foreign power, or just an ideology in support of international capital being dominant in the order of nation state politics?

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/11/nationals-tyrannical-foreign.html

    Some might see a protected New Zealand interest, as our agreement with the UN as per UNDRIP and the status of Maori, and otherwise the Treaty – see our trade agreeements.

    ‘So who are real beneficiaries of ACT’s war on the Treaty and UNDRIP and our signing of the Paris Accord and intent to weaken OIO regulations?

    • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1
      18 November 2024 at 2:21 pm

      So who are real beneficiaries of ACT’s war on the Treaty and UNDRIP and our signing of the Paris Accord and intent to weaken OIO regulations?

      yes Good question – reckon Hager’s on to it, at least in part.

      Nicky Hager: Beware the smooth talker with a forked tongue
      Act billboards say End Division by Race, but it is actually
      more like Defend Division by Wealth.

    • Dennis Frank 11.2
      18 November 2024 at 2:23 pm

      Is Atlas Network a foreign power, or just an ideology in support of international capital being dominant in the order of nation state politics?

      Founded in 1981, Atlas is a global network of right-wing ‘think tanks’ that organise and build power so they can shape the systems and structures we live in, to advance their own interests. According to its website, Atlas links 550 think tanks in more than 100 countries, including ten in New Zealand and Australia. https://www.psa.org.nz/our-voice/understanding-atlas-how-a-right-wing-network-is-building-global-influence/

      Alternatively, if you are a literalist their onsite image of it may persuade you it is a spider with a red splodge on its bum. The binary frame you postulated corresponds to neither view, of course. Yet the global network does indeed convey rightist ideology supporting global capitalism similar to many foreign powers, so while technically incorrect your binary frame did get you into the ball-park.

    • newsense 11.3
      18 November 2024 at 4:47 pm

      What’s preventing a fire sale? Not parliament. It’s wonderfully sovereign, with no upper house and only the 3 year election cycle any check on it.
      (Don’t trust anyone supporting a 4 year cycle!)

      The only other things are the courts and the Treaty. We’ve seen an attack on the courts and judges. Prebble to the Waitangi Tribunal.

      And now we’re seeing an attack on the Treaty.

  12. SPC 12
    18 November 2024 at 1:23 pm

    Justice David Johnstone cited the need to deter physical protests that risk provoking violence and undermining the rule of law.

    This raises the issue of what physical protest means.

    1.Blocking traffic (Destiny Church at the weekend).

    2.Occupation of an area withoiut permission.

    3.Holding an event, that others claim is of a purpose to make the place (institution or nation) unsafe for them.

    4.Obstructing a business activity.

    etc

    The judge made the decision knowing this.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350200471/man-discharged-without-conviction-after-punching-71-year-old-posie-parker-event

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/transgender-activist-eli-rubashkyn-loses-appeal-for-dousing-posie-parker-with-tomato-juice/ZNZTRBKOKRA7BNKINYLQOVGF54/

    The only known difference, one was planned and the reasoning explained afterwards.

    Thus inter-person violence more likely to be excused, even if more extreme, than that as part of planned protest.

    Which one makes women more unsafe?

    • David 12.1
      18 November 2024 at 3:34 pm

      I would expect any physical violence (person to person) to be condemned by the courts.

      Being part of a protest and using physical violence against the person/people you are protesting against, should be considered an aggravating factor (harsher punishment) at sentencing.

      The guy who punched the elderly woman at the protest should have been convicted. There is no excuse for his behaviour.

    • Jimmy 12.2
      18 November 2024 at 4:46 pm

      They both should be convicted. There is no excuse for punching a 71 year old woman whether planned or unplanned. He should lose his name suppression. He deserves a conviction and is very lucky to escape justice. And throwing a substance over someone (in this case tomato juice), well anyone that throws anything at someone deserves a conviction.

  13. Ad 13
    18 November 2024 at 2:36 pm

    I am so looking forward to David Seymour being confronted with real people power.

  14. Adrian 14
    18 November 2024 at 2:40 pm

    It’s a conservative town is Blenheim but as I drove past the hikoi supporters waiting by the Railway Station I gave them a toot and a wave, but I was surprised that almost every other car passing by also did the same thing. Luxon and Seymour may have really bitten off more than they can chew this time. I think huge support is growing for the protest on both Māori and Pakeha sides. Kia kaha. Would love to be in Wellybut the boats are pretty full.

    • Anne 14.1
      18 November 2024 at 5:23 pm

      Agree. It is as if a sleeping giant as been awakened. Suddenly we have been confronted with reality and it is the slimy, sleazy little toad called Seymour who is responsible. Not quite the response he is looking for. 😉

  15. joe90 15
    18 November 2024 at 2:43 pm

    So much smoke for so many years.

    /

    @WayneReardon

    Is anyone surprised that Alan Jones was arrested? Mark Read called him out back in 1998 when Jones and Kerri-Anne got all high and mighty with him during an unplanned phone interview on Channel 9. Watch this! https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1

    https://x.com/WayneReardon/status/1858270279816163394

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/534080/veteran-broadcaster-alan-jones-arrested-in-sydney-amid-alleged-indecent-assault-and-sexual-touching-offences-investigation

    • Muttonbird 15.1
      18 November 2024 at 2:54 pm

      If only our own justice system could be so open in identifying powerful white men who commit such abuses. I'm talking about the continued name suppression of a former political figure who was convicted of a similar act.

  17. KS 17
    18 November 2024 at 3:13 pm

    Biden US, France, Uk have just now approved Ukraine to use long range Weapons on Russians

    PUTIN WARNED NATO that they will enter a DIRECT WAR with Russia if Ukraine uses long-range US missiles to strike inside Russia.….

    Tick Tick Tick Tick….

    • Scud 17.1
      18 November 2024 at 6:48 pm

      Please tell us, how many so-called Red Lines that the EU, UK & the US have crossed? Tsar Poots so-called Red Lines are nothing, just like Obama's so-called Red Lines in the Syria nothing happened!

      Even with Tsar Poots Willy Waving with Nukes has only scared old mate from Germany & Biden's Chief Security Advisor! Even with the Ukrainian Army inside the Kursk Oblast, Tsar Poots blinked and again nothing happened!

      Poots threats is like blowing a fart in a Southerly towards the Sth Is at Wellington Airport LoL.

    • KS 17.2
      18 November 2024 at 8:18 pm

      I suspect the time might have changed

      A moment of historic danger:

      It is still 90 seconds to midnight

      2024 Doomsday Clock Statement

      Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

      Editor, John Mecklin
      January 23, 2024

      • Scud 17.2.1
        19 November 2024 at 12:53 am

        Not going to happen, if Tsar Poots had a case to use couple of cans of instant sunshine?

        He would've use them by now when Ukraine invaded the Kursk Oblast, but he hasn't! Because it would give NATO & the EU casus belli to roll in especially Poland which wants Utu with Russia.

        Which Tsar Poots can't afford to do, because his 3 Day Special Operation has almost practically drained all of his available Manpower (without an all out Military conscription, which cause all sorts of problems for Tsar Poots to deal with) & emptying of most of reserve equipment depots East of the Urals as the Russian Military Military Industrial Complex grids to a halt because of various problems. Thence we are seeing Poots getting on his knees for additional equipment from China, Nth Korea and now 10k plus Troops from Nth Korea.

        Plus the Baltic states, Poland & Moldova want Utu.

        With China, Japan & no doubt Finland also looking to regain their former territories as well, & in China's case it goes way with the Tsar's in the 1700's-1800's.

        So Tsar Poots has his hands full atm even without provoking the EU & NATO to go all in to support Ukraine if he starts throwing around Willy nilly a few cans of instant sunshine.

    • Jenny 17.3
      19 November 2024 at 6:56 am

      For Putin to resort to using a nuclear weapon, would signal to the Russian people that Russia was losing the war in Ukraine.

      The firing of a nuclear weapon would be the last desperate throw of the dice for a failing dictator.

      The US and NATO would respond to any use of a nuclear weapon against Ukraine with a full scale conventional weapon attack on Russia.

      ……the likely US response to nuclear escalation from Russia, which administration officials have said has been repeatedly communicated to Moscow.

      He told ABC News: “Just to give you a hypothetical, we would respond by leading a Nato – a collective – effort that would take out every Russian conventional force that we can see and identify on the battlefield in Ukraine and also in Crimea and every ship in the Black Sea.”

      …..Petraeus acknowledged that the likelihood that radiation would extend to Nato countries under the Article 5 umbrella could perhaps be construed as an attack on a Nato member.

      “Perhaps you can make that case,” he said. “The other case is that this is so horrific that there has to be a response – it cannot go unanswered.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/us-russia-putin-ukraine-war-david-petraeus

      Nuclear weapons have been called Weapons of Mass Destruction, they are misnamed, they are weapons of Mass Murder,

      The whole world would be appalled at the use of a nuclear weapon, not least the Russian people.

      All dictators live in dread of their people rising against them.

      If Putin used a nuclear weapon against Ukraine, there is a high probability that the Russian people wouldn't wait for a Western counter attack before overthrowing Putin's rule.

    • Jenny 18.1
      19 November 2024 at 7:31 am

      tWig @18

      18 November 2024 at 3:24 pm

      Here's one to add to the AI debate at the Standard:

      (from your link)

      …..about whether computer programmes are owed similar welfare rights as humans or animals.`?

      What sort of welfare could a computer program possibly want, that is if it had wants?

      A computer program doesn't need housing or food or warmth, it doesn't feel pain, or cold or hunger or tiredness, it probably wouldn't suffer existential dread of non-existence that billions of years of evolution has bred into all living things, without which they wouldn't be here today.

      In my opinion the hype around the threat of AI is overblown.

      • Incognito 18.1.1
        19 November 2024 at 10:15 am

        In my opinion the hype around the threat of AI is overblown.

        If an alien spaceship visiting Earth would have dropped AI on humankind, it would have been a clear breach of the Prime Directive. Personally, I believe they came from K-PAX.

  19. Dennis Frank 19
    18 November 2024 at 4:22 pm

    Politico asked 9 influential women why Harris lost: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/11/15/us-woman-president-expert-roundup-00189718

    Anne-Marie Slaughter is the CEO of New America and former director of policy planning at the State Department. She used both/and logic:

    Harris did not lose because she is a woman. And the United States is not ready for a woman president — at least not a Democratic woman president.

    To understand the complexities of the 2024 election and of future elections in which women will continue to try to break what Hillary Clinton called the “highest, hardest glass ceiling,” it is necessary to hold both these claims in our minds at the same time… Harris lost support among women voters who had previously voted for a woman candidate. These voters must be making up their minds based on issues other than gender.

    Sarah Isgur is a graduate of Harvard Law School [and] Justice Dept spokesperson during the Trump administration and host of [a] legal podcast. Charisma deficit, she says.

    Just like Al Gore didn’t lose because he was a man, Hillary Clinton didn’t lose because she was a woman. They both lost because they lacked her husband’s charisma but carried his baggage.

    The 3rd blames stereotypes, the 4th sexism, the 5th not representing national identity, the 6th evades answering the question, the 7th blames sexism + misogyny, the 8th sexism + "class dynamics", the 9th evades the question.

  20. newsense 20
    18 November 2024 at 4:39 pm

    Know it’s a couple of weeks ago: November 2nd, but this really hit home the realities of what’s going to happen with climate change.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018962400/tairawhiti-pine-profit-and-the-cyclone

    He talks about the slash. Company didn’t play ball. Council took them to court and got 300k. Puts that in the context of a recent 100 million government pay out to clean up the slash. Socialising the damage.

    Plus, while causing this damage they’ve received 284 million in carbon credits.

    This is one story about ONE EVENT and our lack of preparation. From landslides and other things some had roads out for over a year.

    Here’s another report suggesting that 10,000 properties we hadn’t considered could be uninsurable in 25 years.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/533354/more-than-10-000-properties-could-become-uninsurable-as-climate-risks-grow-report

    And recently this government has made noises about not helping out if there’s a problem.

  21. thinker 21
    18 November 2024 at 6:54 pm

    This has to be the lowest point in politics since Douglas's neoliberalism and Richardson's mother of all budgets.

    •The real prime minister absent from the introduction of the most controversial race-based bill in living memory,

    • The Act leader who pressured the coalition government to introduce the bill blaming it's targeted people for causing dissent,

    • A senior minister of the third coalition partner calling for those whose opinions different to his own to be imprisoned.

    History is full of examples of this kind of governing, but rarely, if ever, has it been under the auspices of a democracy.

    Shame on Seymour for thinking he could replace the country's founding bipartisan partnership with a Pax Romana

    Shame on Jones for speaking out like an autocrat

    Shame on Luxon for campaigning on his lifetime of great leadership, then fiddling while his coalition partners rip away our democracy.

    I hope they are none of them welcome at Waitangi in February.

    For those who haven't seen it, an extract from Spinoff today …

    Spinoff

    The BulletinToday at 7.15am

    The haka that circled the globe

    David Seymour countered by saying that… “Te Pāti Māori acted in complete disregard for the democratic system of which they are a part during the first reading of the bill, causing disruption, and leading to suspension of the house.”

    Seymour had support for that position… from Shane Jones of NZ First. The TPM response had been “threatening and ugly”, and Jones was sufficiently appalled to offer an unexpected response: imprisonment.

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