Open Mike 19/08/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 19th, 2017 - 96 comments
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96 comments on “Open Mike 19/08/2017 ”

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  1. Philj 1
    19 August 2017 at 7:00 am

    This is pasted from another post. Re. Polling. Responses please.
    If, if and if again. There is one poll that really counts IF you are really, really, serious. If Germany had invaded England in WW2. If the AB’S had taken their own chef and food to the World Cup in South Africa in two thousand and whatever. If Barbie was an All Black! This is what I call Poll Porn. Other countries don’t permit this poll porn, for obvious reasons. Tea leaf reading anyone?

  2. Ant 2
    19 August 2017 at 7:25 am

    Boot Camp begins at home
    If a Boot Camp’s objectives include instilling a sense of discipline and self worth then surely “boot camp” should begin at home.

    When the bell rang at 10:30 am on my first day’s teaching on Atiu (outer island of the Cooks) I asked the kids “how long is the break?” They responded that this was lunch time, not break. I learned later that they’d been up since 5:30, feeding the pigs and chickens and doing housework.

    There was no classroom “duty roster;” at the close of the school day floors were swept, windows cleaned, shelves tidied. The students buzzed round the room as routinely as one brushed one’s teeth. I marvelled as I watched them using those amazing brooms fashioned from the shredded midribs of palm fronds.

    “Looking forward to the holiday?” I asked on last day of term.
    “Not really” replied one, “we miss our friends.”
    “On an island of only 530 people?”
    But holiday time was ‘working in the taro fields time’ with far less opportunity for socialising than during term.

    The kids had developed a strong sense of independence. A massive radio mast, the victim of 5 cyclones that struck Cook Islands in the 2004/2005 season, lay sprawled as a wreck of iron and cable right across part of the playing field. It was 4 months before machinery arrived to remove it, and during all that time they played touch during break, jumping over the cables and running round the jagged metal as though it belonged there.

    Swimming sports was held in the crude little harbour. At lunch all the staff withdrew for kai under the Casuarina trees, well out of sight. And the kids played unsupervised in the water, from pre-primary through to seniors. Everyone seemed to have an eye on everyone else and it all looked very normal and natural. .

    I’m not suggesting they were saints by any means; plenty of mischief reminded me kids will always be kids. But it seems to me the early inculcation of responsibility in the home, at the work place, in care of oneself and of one another is something sadly lacking in western contemporary society.

    Why is it so hard for us to grasp the steadying influence of good old fashioned values?

    • JanM 2.1
      19 August 2017 at 8:19 am

      Last year I had a holiday in Rarotonga. One day in the township I struck up a conversation with a policewoman and commented that one outstanding feature was a total lack of bored teenages milling around on the streets, unlike NZ. “We keep them far too busy here” she responded. How cool – they are a valued part of their society, not a nuisance factor, as we seem to regard them. I’ll bet there are few, if any youth suicides there!

      • Ant 2.1.1
        19 August 2017 at 12:43 pm

        After some years on Atiu I taught in Rarotonga. Two student teachers from Australia marvelled at the 90% level of participation in ball games during interval, lamenting that in Oz 90% sit around glued to cell phones when not in class.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2
      19 August 2017 at 12:05 pm

      Why is it so hard for us to grasp the steadying influence of good old fashioned values?

      Wouldn’t that be dependent upon which old fashioned values?

      The community based ones you describe or the capitalist ones we have.

      • Ant 2.2.1
        19 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

        I emphasized good old fashioned values….which would surely rule out capitalism.

        • Sabine 2.2.1.1
          19 August 2017 at 7:51 pm

          define ‘good’ old fashioned values.

          thanks.

          • Ant 2.2.1.1.1
            19 August 2017 at 8:08 pm

            In the context of the article how about care of one another, cooperative living, self-reliance, honouring individuality.

            • Sabine 2.2.1.1.1.1
              19 August 2017 at 8:12 pm

              see i grew up also with cleaning communal goods i.e. church, school, public yard etc. it was us girls that did the cleaning. I just wanted to make sure that when we speak of ‘good old fashioned’ values, it is not the girls that end up cleaning and the boys playing balls.

              good old fashioned means a lot of things to a lot of people. Might be better to point out the values that you are talking about and you will see that they are not forcibly ‘good ‘old’ fashioned values.

              • Ant …
                19 August 2017 at 9:20 pm

                “Might be better to point out the values that you are talking about…..”

                The entire article, with no mention of gender, points to the values I’m talking about that I noted amongst my students: once again mutual caring, cooperative living, self reliance. These are sadly absent in large swathes of western society.

                • Sabine …
                  19 August 2017 at 9:50 pm

                  and yet, you do not talk about community values you talk about ‘good old fashioned values’. Which means something different to many people.

                  As for saying that these are largely absent, no, thy are not. They might not be exercised in a way that you would count them, but there are many young people involved in the community, there are volunteers tonight going out in rain and hail to put tarp up over roofs blown away, to put out fires and pull animals out of ditches just to name a few.

                  the kids are alright, its the grown ups that have fucked up society.

                  i don’t disagree with you, but words and their meaning matters.
                  Go ask women what ‘good old fashioned values’ mean to them. 🙂

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    19 August 2017 at 10:57 pm

                    The good old fashioned values I remember – my grandfather’s – were of sharing. He did a lot of fishing, had a smokehouse, and pretty much everyone who knew him got fish. Down here in the south the need to lock doors (or bikes) only came in the last 30-40 years. When AH Reed walked from Cape Reinga to Bluff he could rely on being offered a billet by strangers.

                    So why’d it all go away? Neo-liberalism was part of it. I suspect the decline of churches as social organizations and the decline of social rugby were part of it too. We have become to some extent deculturalised. It’s a dangerous thing in fact – the folk that ISIS recruit are not mainstream Muslims, but deculturalised ones.

                    Media prostitutes like Hoskings and Gower are deculturalised – they have no loyalty to public interest. The blame lies in part with those who hire them – the choice to further debase our society is deliberate.

                    • Incognito …
                      20 August 2017 at 12:04 am

                      Deculturalised or nihilist? What is the countervailing voice, to use Monbiot’s phrasing?

                      Sharing is a powerful (trans)action with very deep symbolism and meaning.

                  • Ant …
                    20 August 2017 at 10:51 am

                    “….the kids are alright, its the grown ups that have fucked up society”.

                    Our kids are NOT alright, they are suffering. I agree about the adults.

                    Jun 15, 2017 – A report by Unicef contains a shocking statistic – New Zealand has by far the highest youth suicide rate in the developed world.

                    • Sabine …
                      21 August 2017 at 11:34 am

                      my comment does not refer tot he material status a young one has but to the attitude of our young ones.
                      And they are ‘all right’, they are helpful, studious, polite, they volunteer, they juggle school, homework, work, they live in a world that is dead set against them and still they are polite, helpful, industrious, and lovely.

                      Its the old ones that fuck it up. We should own up to that. The ‘oldfashioned values’ were not ‘destroyed by the young ones, but are disregarded by many grown ups. We – old people – set the standard, we don’t get to complain if in the end we dont like what we harvest.

                • Incognito …
                  19 August 2017 at 9:50 pm

                  The terminology “good old fashioned values” seems to suggest that they have gone out of fashion here but in other cultures/societies they still exist and still guide, regulate, and shape human actions and interactions. This raises a few interesting questions: why & how did we lose them, and how can we restore or re-establish them (assuming, of course, that we can and want to)? This is Puddleglum material 😉

  3. Eco maori 3
    19 August 2017 at 7:30 am

    There a good blog on yesterday’s go out to vote

    • garibaldi 3.1
      19 August 2017 at 7:58 am

      Eco maori, if the comment you are referring to is your own one praising TOP, I would simply point out to you that it seems strange that a bunch of rich white capitalists will supposedly fix the ills of capitalism for us all. Warning bells should be ringing.
      I wish Gareth Morgan well BUT let him bleed the Natz, not us.

      • bwaghorn 3.1.1
        19 August 2017 at 10:37 am

        the Jacinda effect has killed tops chances ,

        • mauī 3.1.1.1
          19 August 2017 at 4:47 pm

          You never know he’s sitting on 2%, last time Colin lifted his party from 1% to 4% in a matter of a few weeks. A couple of good TV appearances and Gareth could fly in under the radar.

      • Pete 3.1.2
        19 August 2017 at 12:05 pm

        Garibaldi, apart from making an increadibly racist and sexist comment re white men, you show total ignorance of the makeup of TOP.

        Maori, Polynesian and women are all over represented in their office holder ranks. But then why let reality and a little fact checking get in the way of your cliched viewpoints

    • Xanthe 5.1
      19 August 2017 at 9:46 am

      Polling period 31 July-13 August … this latest roy morgan is not usable data too much has happened to change stuff in the period

  6. Bearded Git 6
    19 August 2017 at 9:40 am

    My rolling average of the last 3 Roy Morgans including August 13 poll just out:

    Lab/Gr 41.7 (polling Lab 32.5 Greens 9.0 on August 13)
    Lab/Gr/NZF 51.2
    Nats 44.0
    Nats/ACT/MP 46.3
    Nats/ACT/MP/NZF 55.8
    NZF 9.5

    If Winnie goes as part of the 4-headed monster it’s 55.8 versus 41.7

    If Winnie goes with the Lab/Gr bloc it’s 51.2 versus 46.3

    Both would give safe majorities.

    These figures probably give a better idea of bedrock support, rather than the recent volatile Colmar Brunton, though the Jacinda effect may not be fully reflected.TOP continues to languish. Roy Morgan had Labour on 23% last November.

  7. swordfish 7
    19 August 2017 at 10:05 am

    Young Dickie Harman at Politik

    The big “what if” relates to Winston Peters and NZ First

    And though he is adamant he won’t even begin to negotiate until the writs are returned on October 12, people close to him are beginning to believe that he would prefer to go with Labour.

    (As election narrows, National hits the fund raising button with high priced dinner with PM – August 18, 2017)

    • Sabine 7.1
      19 August 2017 at 11:31 am

      his sign in our backwaters here

      Had Enough?

      🙂

      everyone keep swimming, there is no land in sight.

    • CLEANGREEN 7.2
      19 August 2017 at 11:52 am

      True that is Swordfish,

      We have family inside the Party that confirms what you highlighted there.

    • mikesh 7.3
      19 August 2017 at 2:09 pm

      John Armstrong, in this morning´s Herald is arguing that NZ 1st should go with whichever major party receives the largest vote, whether this is Labour or National, apparently because this is what the electorate expect. Do people really expect this in this day and age? I would expect Peters to coalesce with whichever party he has most in common, policy wise, (assuming of course that a government can be formed if he does so) . Am I somehow out of step with the rest of the country?

      Armstrong goes on to argue that a vote for the Green Party is a wasted vote irrespective of whether or not they pass 5%, because their presence in parliament will give Peters the ¨wriggle room¨ to go with National, even if it turns out that Labour is the largest party. Maybe – or would it simply mean that the electorate were looking for a coalition that included the Green Party, and should Peters not recognise this?

  8. greywarshark 8
    19 August 2017 at 10:38 am

    An interesting and powerful interview by Kim and Charlotte Wood this morning.
    At 10.04 – about women and mistreatment.

    Australian writer Charlotte Wood is the author of five novels and two books of non-fiction, including Animal People, The Children and The Writer’s Room – a collection of interviews with writers about their work. Her most recent book, The Natural Way of Things, was inspired by an ABC documentary, Exposed to Moral Danger, about the hidden history of one of Australia’s most notorious state institutions, the Hay Institution for Girls.

    The Natural Way of Things won the 2016 Stella Prize, the 2016 Indie Book of the Year and Novel of the Year, and was joint winner of the Australian Prime Minister’s Literary Award for Fiction. Also last year, Wood was named the Charles Perkins Centre’s inaugural Writer in Residence at the University of Sydney. Wood recently visited Wellington as a guest of Victoria University’s International Institute of Modern Letters (IIML).

    Good for women, just mentioned 85 year old woman who has gone to Nigeria to look at what is happening to females there! I can’t remember who – they had just mentioned Edna O’Brien and Margaret Drabble.

    But this interview is good for men to listen to, to get background on what is enraging some women about sexism and lack of respect etc.

  9. greywarshark 9
    19 August 2017 at 10:46 am

    An interview after 11am this morning on stem cell research and human enhancement.
    Will end up keeping the elite going looking acceptable on television and holding onto power to suit the elite.

    And how will they choose to ‘enhance’ the lower classes? We already can see in present society that the elite have no feeling of connection with the non-elite.

    11am RadioNZ
    Julian Savulescu is an Australian philosopher and bioethicist. He is Uehiro Professor of Practical Ethics at the University of Oxford, Fellow of St Cross College, Oxford, Director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, Sir Louis Matheson Distinguished Visiting Professor at Monash University, and Head of the Melbourne-Oxford Stem Cell Collaboration, which is devoted to examining the ethical implications of cloning and embryonic stem cell research. He is the editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics.

    In addition to his background in applied ethics and philosophy, he also has a background in medicine and completed his MBBS (Hons) at Monash University. He completed his PhD at Monash University, under the supervision of bioethicist Peter Singer. Savulescu’s latest examination of the ethics of the biological enhancement of the human race are contained in The Ethics of Human Enhancement: Understanding the Debate.

  10. Dspare 10
    19 August 2017 at 11:49 am

    The video on this is pretty glitchy, and what I can make out it is heavy on glib optimism and light on details. Though Coleman is talking now and touting the previously announced ICU beds. Seems to have cut out entirely now it has gone to questions.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/health/least-1b-rebuild

    One billion dollars does sound like a lot, but you can’t help wondering how much could have been saved by timely maintenance over the past decade. Not just in money terms, but also in human misery. Of course, this is Bill English’s National, so I’d have to see the details to know how much of that spend is going to end up as hospital, and how much will line the pockets of consultants (and even then the accountancy is likely to be creative in including operating expenses in the rebuild to inflate the wow number factor of this suspiciously round figure).

    I don’t know how I feel about the Wakari option yet. From the perspective of sea level rise, it would be a good idea in the longterm to move away from the harbour flatlands. From the perspective of patient accessibility, there would be problems, especially during the winter when the hills get icey (and dicey). Then there would be the impact on the medical school of separating the University health science buildings and the hospital.

    Still, considering how bad things are at the moment, anything would be an improvement to the Dunedin public health system. As an election bribe, it is a bit; too little too late, given that Labour is likely to commit to equal or better the offer. Plus they offer greater transparency, and hopefully the end of the antidemocratic commissioner’s regieme:

    The rebuild announcement comes after the Cabinet considered an early stage business case outlining three options… The Dunedin North MP David Clark said that there had been unacceptable delays and secrecy.

    “In 2014, I became concerned about ongoing delays in the rebuild project and sought answers from then minister Tony Ryall.”

    He gave assurances a business case would be before Cabinet by the end of 2014.

    Dr Clark called for the release of the full business-case document to allow greater transparency.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      19 August 2017 at 1:29 pm

      One billion dollars does sound like a lot, but you can’t help wondering how much could have been saved by timely maintenance over the past decade.

      If a full new build is the best option now then simple maintenance wouldn’t have cut it. Of course, proper funding and delegation of authority would have had the new build started years ago without the government even having to have a say.

      Of course, this is Bill English’s National, so I’d have to see the details to know how much of that spend is going to end up as hospital, and how much will line the pockets of consultants

      10 to 15% will disappear in the dead-weight loss of profits.

      Considering that they seem to have spent years on this already then I’d expect the consultants to already have cost millions.

  11. joe90 11
    19 August 2017 at 11:59 am

    From earlier in the showing just how unpopular Ms Hipango is here in Whanganui but alas, South Taranaki.

    A Wanganui Chronicle reader poll has revealed a big lead for Labour’s Steph Lewis as preferred Member of Parliament for the Whanganui electorate.

    The online poll was run over the past two weeks and 617 readers responded.

    Most indicated a preference for Ms Lewis as MP with 52 per cent support.

    National’s Harete Hipango ran second with 37 per cent. The Greens Nicola Patrick attracted 9 per cent and ACT’s Alan Davidson two per cent.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11903825

  12. UncookedSelachimorpha 12
    19 August 2017 at 12:11 pm

    Good discussion today of the vile ideology that is neoliberalism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/aug/18/neoliberalism-the-idea-that-changed-the-world

  13. Draco T Bastard 13
    19 August 2017 at 12:26 pm

    NZ law could disqualify all Australians from their Parliament

    “Under recent and little-noticed changes to New Zealand law, Australian citizens now don’t need a visa to live, study or work in the Land of the Long White Cloud. That’s right: Any Australian citizen is entitled to live, study and work there,” he said.

    “That means we’re all entitled to the rights and privileges of a subject of New Zealand – not a citizen, with the attached rights and privileges such as voting – but to be a subject of that country, living there, subject to New Zealand law, working or studying. And there’s no doubt that New Zealand is a foreign power.”

    According to Angyal, if section 44 were to be taken into account, no Australian would be eligible to be an Australian MP.

    Perhaps, if they’re nice to us, we’ll let them rule themselves again 😈

    • greywarshark 13.1
      19 August 2017 at 3:42 pm

      Don’t drop your guard for a minute, nice to us now, Oz will turn around when it suits and bite us in the bum later. But being rather soft in the bum and everywhere else, NZs will just sigh and give them a little pat, and say ‘There, there, you are a bit overwrought. All will be well.’

  14. Muttonbird 14
    19 August 2017 at 12:37 pm

    When you start to see protesters on the streets then something is very wrong. Particularly galling is the National Party using the campaign period to announce big projects which the electoral commission warns against.

    Nats don’t get the public – they do get corruption though.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/95949112/new-1bn-hospital-for-dunedin-govt-announces

    Poor old Bill. He had to run away.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1
      19 August 2017 at 1:20 pm

      I’m kinda hoping that that attempt by National to rort the system for their own benefit is going to bite them.

    • Dspare 14.2
      19 August 2017 at 1:38 pm

      muttonbird
      That video is a lot more entertaining than the one I sat through (up at comment 10, though there is a brief snippit of it at the end of this one). It is an interesting point about; “using the campaign period to announce big projects which the electoral commission warns against”.

      However, the announcement really boils down to a mere: “$2million in further stop-gap funding to keep the existing hospital running.”. With the business case for the rebuild not even going to cabinet till next year, and a proposed completion date of; “2027, but this depends on the location”. So this billion dollar hospital is a long way off, and in no way certain.

    • greywarshark 14.4
      19 August 2017 at 4:28 pm

      Muttonbird galling is the National Party using the campaign period to announce big projects which the electoral commission warns against.

      Last minute promises in an effort to scuttle the opposition: They are particularly important if this is correct:
      ‘of a poll of [Canadian] voters on election day 25 percent only decided within twenty-four hours of the election, 40 percent had decided in the previous week’
      (The Big Red Machine… by Stephen Clarkson)

      I came across BaitandSwitch. Have they tried that here?
      Politics
      In lawmaking, “caption bills” that propose minor changes in law with simplistic titles (the bait) are introduced to the legislature with the ultimate objective of substantially changing the wording (the switch) at a later date in order to try to smooth the passage of a controversial or major amendment.

      Rule changes are also proposed (the bait) to meet legal requirements for public notice and mandated public hearings, then different rules are proposed at a final meeting (the switch), thus bypassing the objective of public notice and public discussion on the actual rules voted upon. While legal, the political objective is to get legislation or rules passed without expected negative community review.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch#Politics

      And from a different viewpoint.
      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201011/promises-promises-when-politicians-don-t-deliver

  15. lprent 15
    19 August 2017 at 1:28 pm

    Has anyone got an idea why one of largest posts over the last few months is Simon Louisson post from last year.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/why-was-john-key-singled-out-by-panama-papers-hacker/

    It is literally almost always in the top current posts being read at present. Right now it has 5 people reading it. We get spikes of this, but usually not sustained spikes over months (unless it is a great photo of a milkbottle)

    I’d guess that it is from facebook bearing in mind that it shows up as 3 from facebook, 2 direct.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1
      19 August 2017 at 1:31 pm

      people coming in from a Facebook post and looking around?

      • lprent 15.1.1
        19 August 2017 at 2:58 pm

        Yeah. That is to be expected. By why is this facebook thing getting passed around so much, and so recently.

        That post was more than a year ago, he is no longer the PM, and the overseas trust ‘industry’ here is now just husk of what it once was as even this favourable towards corruption government was forced to lock out the criminal money laundering that was going on.

        There is no apparent reason why this post should be being passed around facebook at this time – and increasing in velocity.

        • Craig H 15.1.1.1
          19 August 2017 at 3:41 pm

          There’s a Facebook group popping up in my feed for National – NZ’s most corrupt government ever (or something like that), with thousands of members, and that post is one of their favourites.

          • lprent 15.1.1.1.1
            19 August 2017 at 3:48 pm

            Sounds like a likely kind of source. I guess people are dispersing links to more of these kinds of posts and readers are drilling down more in the approach to the election.

    • weka 15.2
      19 August 2017 at 1:58 pm

      milk bottle?

    • weka 15.3
      19 August 2017 at 1:58 pm

      We can’t tell where on FB or direct people are coming from though right?

    • Stuart Munro 15.4
      19 August 2017 at 2:03 pm

      Best guess might be international interest – does it rise during our nighttime? A lot of Latin American journalists are probably looking for stolen money.

    • marty mars 15.5
      19 August 2017 at 2:13 pm

      I noticed it on fbook maybe someone shared it.

    • adam 15.6
      19 August 2017 at 3:48 pm

      There are rumors on Facebook that say, and I’m paraphrasing.

      “””Key resigned from being PM, because he was more involved in the Panama papers fiasco than the MSM has even let on. (Up to his eye balls) And he feared that it would come out during the election, and not only destroy his reputation, but that of the national party (TM) as a whole.”””

      It comes in a few different versions with a lot more guttural language used in various incarnations.

      Some of the more colorful ones coming from people off shore.

      • Tamati Tautuhi 15.6.1
        19 August 2017 at 6:37 pm

        Heard he was actually pushed ?

        • adam 15.6.1.1
          19 August 2017 at 6:44 pm

          I’ve heard quite a few rumors, but at the moment that is what they are, rumors.

          My favorite rumor was that his trichophilia had gotten to be unmanageable, and that after a certain incident in the back offices of parliament, he was asked to stand down.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 15.7
      19 August 2017 at 6:02 pm

      Sounds like either a bot or someone trying to rank that page.

  16. Tamati Tautuhi 16
    19 August 2017 at 1:58 pm

    See National’s choirboy John Armstrong is back writing nonsense again for the Nanny Herald ?

    • mary_a 16.1
      19 August 2017 at 3:55 pm

      @ Tamati Tautuhi … (16) … Yes, as to be expected Armstrong crawls out from under his rock to perform his once three yearly cycle of contaminated bullshit for his Natz master Herr Joyce!

  17. aj 17
    19 August 2017 at 2:26 pm

    The Nation: Amy Adams vs Phil Twyford.
    Adams very high speed and volume delivery largely obliterated Twyford. I’d love a word count, and Adams had the cheek to accuse Twyford of cutting her off and using more time.

  18. Tony P 18
    19 August 2017 at 3:12 pm

    This guy has started appearing the Hawke’s Bay Today on Saturdays apparently as a counter to Mike William’s column. Further proof of the local rag’s pro National leanings and maybe a sign they are worried.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11902562

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503459&objectid=11906514

    Who the hell is Jerry Flay anyway?

  19. greywarshark 19
    19 August 2017 at 5:37 pm

    Looking at a history of the Paeroa and District Caledonian Society. I was struck by the cause of its close and selling up.

    In 1974 a decision was made to put the Society into recess, a decision not made lightly.

    It is ironical that at the time of closing, the Inglesides were still attracting crowds big enough to fill the War Memorial Hall but simply lacked people able or willing to do the work involved in running a dance.

    And so, in 1975 the assets of the Society were sold and the money divided between the Crippled Children’s Society, the St. John’s Ambulance and the I H C Building Fund – a sad but fitting conclusion to a Society which, for years, had worked for the good of the community.

    Is this, in a nutshell, the background story of why NZ is being sliced, diced and sold off in bits today? If so how can we stop this process? And having got the show together, how do we make sure it continues for the eager community, and keeps the people committed to ensuring it carries on for their children’s children?
    http://www.ohinemuri.org.nz/journals/71-journal-43-september-1999/1581-paeroa-district-caledonian-society

  21. amirite 21
    19 August 2017 at 7:11 pm

    Our farming industry and the massive chunk of our economy is based on cheap, exploited, abused immigrant labour which maintains the low-wage economy and the wage stagnation for the domestic worker. The Government absolutely loves it.

    A shameful report has come out detailing the amount of exploitation and abuse of Filipino dairy workers http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11907236

    • Tamati Tautuhi 21.1
      19 August 2017 at 8:18 pm

      John Key stated he did not want us to be tennant’s in our own country, then did exactly the opposite selling of NZ Housing and Farm Land ?

      Bill English said we are a low wage economy and is driving it as hard as he can ?

      What happened about the old National Policy of trying to get the NZ average wage up to the Australian Level ?

      • miravox 21.1.1
        19 August 2017 at 9:07 pm

        “What happened about the old National Policy of trying to get the NZ average wage up to the Australian Level ?”

        Bill’s right and it never was a National policy to get wages up to the Australian level, that was just editing for the massess.

        https://thestandard.org.nz/transcript-proves-key-is-lying/

        During a Northland meeting on his Heartland tour, John Key met Kerikeri District Business Association president Carolyne Brooks-Quan in a cafe with a journalist present. Key seems to have taken little notice of the journalist, referring to him in a later media interview as ‘a young guy’.

        During the meeting Brooks-Quan expressed to Key her concern about calls for employers in New Zealand to pay their workers more:

        ‘There’s been a lot surrounding the exodus of people to Australia that are lured by higher wages. There are some calls here for employers to pay more. What’s your take on that?

        John, ever the business-friendly politician, replied:

        ‘We would love to see wages drop. The way we want to see wages increase is because productivity is greater. So people can afford more. Not just inflationary reasons, otherwise it’s a bit of a vicious circle as it comes back to you in higher interest rates. We really want to drive that out.’

        So while low income workers are on the bones of there arses, and the middle is squeezed, after 9 long years we’re still waiting for the simplistic productivity/wage growth formula to produce an income bonanza for working people. Real wages and purchasing power lagging productivity.

        • greywarshark 21.1.1.1
          19 August 2017 at 10:37 pm

          Key-lite coming out with his rote learning.

          Also slightly amusing to see Don Brash defend his basic understanding of an aspect of neo lib economics against Bryan Gould pointing out that he was wrong. Bryan Gould quoted the British but Don Brash probably repeating something schooled in by Harvard.

          http://www.bryangould.com/the-fallout-from-brashs-downfall/
          He had, after all, been the country’s top banker, and that is to say nothing of his eventual emergence as a “hard right” politician – leading first the National party and then Act, and only narrowly failing to become our Prime Minister in 2005.

          As Governor of the Reserve Bank, he had been the principal champion and practitioner of the neo-liberal economic policies which became known as “Rogernomics”. Are we happy that our economic fortunes were entrusted to a single individual who understood so little of his subject, and that ministers applauded themselves for their disclaimer of any responsibility for the decisions he made?

          His woeful attempt to deny what is now accepted must cast huge doubt on the continuing legacy of “Rogernomics” in our economic policies. The whole myth of prudent economic management under neo-liberal policies must be reconsidered in the light of what we now know is the banks’ self-interested creation (or “printing”) of billions of new money.

          The frequent condemnations of any suggestion that governments might “print money” (unless it is “quantitative easing”, with the purpose of bailing out the banks) must now be viewed against the relaxed attitude towards the banks doing precisely that – day in, day out, and on a massive scale – for their own profit-making purposes.

          An acknowledgment of the true role of the banks should lead us to reconsider many of the hitherto accepted nostrums in tackling economic problems. Inflation? No, not created by greedy workers claiming higher wages but by banks printing more and more money to boost their profits.

          13/4/17 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11836928
          Bryan Gould: Banking should be under closer Government control

          28/4/17 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11845670
          OPINION
          Bryan Gould: Brash doesn’t seem to understand banking

          5/5/17 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11849995
          OPINION
          Don Brash: The banking system creates money, not banks

          Why have we been knuckle-dragging for the last nine years? Because we are all ignorant, but have covered that with a mantle of slick confidence which is reinforced by the small groups of self-interest repeating their mantras, and disrespecting the caution of professionals.

          Perhaps because of the assured and derogatory response to intellectual thought from Cameron Slater 20/4/17 (Whaleoil) “all round know it all academic tosspot, Bryan Gould, has been schooled on NCEA economics by Don Brash.”

          But a detailed look at the argument here:
          https://croakingcassandra.com/2017/04/29/brash-vs-gould-vs-brash/

    • marty mars 21.2
      19 August 2017 at 9:53 pm

      So disgusting the shameful way a chunk of the dairy industry treats these people. So our waterways are polluted AND people are treated like shit – wtf are the good points about this industry again? Oh that’s right some owners and others make lots of money from it – meanwhile the environment, the water and the workers are fucked. Thanks dairy farmers, thanks a lot.

  22. Robert Atack 22
    19 August 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Funny as fuck, I know the cure for cancer … but I haven’t got a clue how to cure cognitive dissonance. And because of that I won’t tell you 😉

    • In Vino 22.1
      19 August 2017 at 9:48 pm

      Puzzling. This is in response to what?

      • Incognito 22.1.1
        19 August 2017 at 9:53 pm

        Robert won’t tell you 😉

        • In Vino 22.1.1.1
          20 August 2017 at 12:04 am

          Because of whose cognitive dissonance?

          • Incognito 22.1.1.1.1
            20 August 2017 at 12:12 am

            I think it’s mine that’s the problem but what would I know?

            Robert, please enlighten us.

            • Robert Atack 22.1.1.1.1.1
              20 August 2017 at 8:01 am

              People would rather die of cancer, or have their guts cutout than admit they are being lied to by politicians/doctors/MSM, etc
              People would rather indirectly kill their own children than admit they are being lied to.
              The first step to being cured of most illnesses, is accepting you are being fed buckets of shit daily.
              The next step is to accept that EVERY politician doesn’t give a flying fuck about you.
              It doesn’t matter if they are black, green, blue, red, or fucking pink polka dot, they are all lying, except the ban 1080 party, every other group is a selfish bunch of bastards, just pulling your strings.
              The human die off will start in earnest, in a few short months, but no one gives fuck.
              Maternity wards, and voting are the evidence that the general dumb public/the walking dead, haven’t a clue.

              I told you so.

              • marty mars …
                20 August 2017 at 8:18 am

                okay, so the sure for cancer is death – thanks for that great insight robert –
                now onto the weather…

                and I hope you aren’t going to “I told you so” right through the demise of our species – that would be poor form old boy, very poor.

                • Robert Atack …
                  20 August 2017 at 8:22 am

                  No Marty
                  The cure for cancer is first accepting you are being lied to, then thinking for yourself, outside the box.

                  The irony is @ nearly 60, I have a medical condition that if not for ‘the pills’ would see me dead, so no I will not be saying “I told you so” for long.
                  The Politicians only allow me 3 months worth at a time, so yes a very short future for me.

                  • marty mars …
                    20 August 2017 at 8:25 am

                    I thought you were going the weed way – lots like that approach.

                    • Robert Atack …
                      20 August 2017 at 8:39 am

                      My ‘cure’ is legal and cheap. but alas it will not replace the equivalent of a severed leg
                      ie, I cured my 20 year gut complaint in 12 days for $20.00.

                    • marty mars …
                      20 August 2017 at 9:06 am

                      Robert i wish you all the best for the difficult times ahead. Thank you for your years of trying to get people to listen – thank you again.

                  • Robert Atack …
                    20 August 2017 at 8:35 am

                    I can afford to buy a 5 year unsubsidized supply, but the don’t give a fuck politicians will not let me.

                    • marty mars …
                      20 August 2017 at 9:10 am

                      Sorry to hear that. You should also be allowed access to quality weed for pain relief, nausea control or pretty well any reason you want at this time – subsidised and accessible – fuck the stupid repressive Victorian attitudes imposed in this country.