Open mike 19/11/2011

72 comments on “Open mike 19/11/2011 ”

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1. Pete George 1

   19 November 2011 at 6:51 am

   A public forum in Dunedin today to look at a movie and also to look at the Octagon and Occupy in relation to the global financial problems.

   Saturday 17 November, 3.30 pm – 6.30 pm, St Paul’s Cathedral (Octagon, Dunedin)

   More details: Special public forum on the Octagon .

   Organised by St Paul’s and Centre for Sustainability (University of Otago). Sustainability has been one of the dominant issues of the election campaign in Dunedin. There have been two candidate forums dedicated to the issue, and at general candidate meetings the topic was prominent in questions being asked.
   • weka 1.1

     19 November 2011 at 8:43 am

     “There will be a screening of the movie “Inside Job”, followed by brief reactions from a specially invited panel including Mayor Dave Cull; the Dean of St Paul’s, the Very Rev Dr Trevor James; the Chief Executive of Methodist Mission, Laura Black; and representatives from business, law, the university and other community bodies in Dunedin.

     The discussion will be hosted by Damian Newell of More FM.”

     Why are there no representatives from the poor, the underclasses, occupy, beneficiaries, low income workers etc on that specially invited panel?
     • idlegus 1.1.1

       19 November 2011 at 10:02 am

       thats so true, why not? as there are a large number of them here in dunedin. great movie though.
     • Pete George 1.1.2

       19 November 2011 at 10:18 am

       You should ask the organisers. This is what I’ve been told:

       We are inviting a number of key people from Dunedin’s businesses, the voluntary sector, the University, churches, law and order agents, trades unions, the occupation, the media

       The voluntary sector, trade unions, the occupation seems to cover some of it.

       It is a public forum, anyone who wants to can go.
       • weka 1.1.2.1

         19 November 2011 at 1:02 pm

         I wasn’t talking about who could go, I was talking about who is on the specially invited panel.
     • LynW 1.1.3

       19 November 2011 at 2:23 pm

       Coincidently, I got up early today and watched ‘Inside Job’. This documentary does indeed tackle a complex topic comprehensively in a format I believe conducive to a wide audience. Distressing and sobering, it could be enough to make one give up in despair, simply because it is still happening! While I had thought ‘ all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing’, even that doesn’t explain this situation. Some good people did speak out but were just ignored or trivialised. The global economic crisis was due to out and out orchestrated greed. Lobby groups specifically targeted and changed legislation to allow greed to further itself unhindered! ‘Inside Job’ did answer a lingering question of mine. What happened to the importance of ethics and morals being entwined with University and Business School degrees? Surely the power of knowledge is linked soundly to personal integrity and responsibility. Unfortunately corruption is shown to be present in educational institutions also.

       If ever we needed to stand by those protesting for the 99% it is now, for good people are speaking out. Perhaps it just needs the momentum of many to overcome the power of money and corruption.
2. Carol 2

   19 November 2011 at 7:00 am

   Good article on Stuff this morning with people involved in charities stating that increasingly people in NZ are struggling to pay for the basics. There’s a good sample of extracts from readers letters, a couple supporting the neolibreal aspirational line, but most opposed to it.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5996449/Growing-wealth-gap-alarms-charities

   Charities say they have watched with concern as the gap between rich and poor grew over the past few years with no solution in sight.
   […]
   City Missioner Susan Blaikie said she had previously worked in the corporate world where beneficiaries were seen as bludgers.

   “But I don’t know anyone that actually wants to be on a benefit. The bigger the gap is between the richest and the poorest, the more likely there will be social problems and crime.”

   The Reverend Blaikie had spent the last decade working with the church and said the issue was worse today than ever before.

   She was concerned that no major party had produced a serious policy this close to the election.

   The Salvation Army’s social services spokesman, Major Campbell Roberts, said he had seen the gap grow over his 40 years there and in recent times more people were worse off.

   […]
   Great Divide strikes chord with readers
   “Hard work is a red herring. Let’s say hypothetically that everyone in NZ worked just as hard and were equally as motivated and as educated as everyone else. Even after all that, someone still has to clean the toilets, empty the septic tanks.” – Jim Kirk

   “If you are mega-rich you are a wealth deprivator; you are impacting on people’s ordinary lives and aspirations more than any everyday criminal probably could. Graham Hart spending $85 million on a yacht made from money milked from the NZ economy … clearly over the boundaries and a man whose soul has become corrupted by his wealth. What’s he giving back?” – John Gower

   “I do work hard – sometimes 11 hours a day, I have a degree which cost me huge amounts in student loans and didn’t help me get a job, and I have aspirations. To me the problem is not that there are rich and poor; this will always happen as it’s human nature. The problem is that more and more people in the same boat as myself are finding it hard to live due to the rising cost of food, petrol and rates.” – Catherine
   • Uturn 2.1

     19 November 2011 at 7:22 am

     Poverty is caused by everyone believing they can “get ahead”. Aspiration is the problem. It’s like the Griffins biscuit ad, “…just one more….ok?” Remove aspiration form the national psyche and the game will change entirely. No more hiding behind material wealth, no more toys to buy, no more plans to spend more on more things no one needs. Just life, facing who and what you are. Scarey as hell for some and they’ll run over anyone to avoid stopping to see themselves. It’s cowardice.
     • Bill 2.1.1

       19 November 2011 at 8:26 am

       People are somewhat compelled to ‘get ahead’, Uturn. It’s built into the rules that if you don’t, then you’ll go under. And that can mean a lack of access to necessary material goods or services (healthcare, education, diet, housing etc) Aspiration isn’t the problem. Poverty is a symptom or result of production and distribution being dictated by the ‘winner takes all and the losers can go fuck themselves’ market economy.

       I don’t think it’s fair to condemn people for wanting what’s best for themselves. Even in a democratic economy, people would want what was best; aspiration would remain. But since the rules ( the various incentives, punishments and rewards) inherent to a democratic economy are different to those of a market economy, the consequences from aspiring for what would be best wouldn’t be the destructive and misanthropic mess we create on both an individual and general level at present.

       The solution is a lot easier than changing people’s minds in some radical way. We simply need to to change the nature of our economy (an external environment) and behaviours will adapt accordingly.
       • just saying 2.1.1.1

         19 November 2011 at 8:59 am

         “The solution is a lot easier than changing people’s minds in some radical way. We simply need to to change the nature of our economy (an external environment) and behaviours will adapt accordingly.”

         And how do we “change the nature of our economy” without “changing people’s minds in some radical way”?

         The circumstances we find ourselves in in 2011 are generating an sustaining a significant network of movements which are kind of epitomised by the evolving ‘occupy’ movement. A counterculture which is, at the very least, sprinkling a few seeds of doubt in the wider communities.

         But when the different threads try to work together, and it’s happening all over the place, they are confronted by problems which can only be positively resolved by individuals and groups ‘radically changing their minds’. External and internal environments can’t be simply decoupled.

         It’s a process, is all I’m saying, and not necessarily one which is going succeed. At the moment I’m very pessimistic about our prospects.
         • Bill 2.1.1.1.1

           19 November 2011 at 9:58 am

           Yup, it’s a kind of chicken and egg scenario. I’m not implying that external and internal environments are seperate and distinct….they are aspects of the one thing that reinforce one another to lend the totality a given ‘shape’. But put simply, if we are engaging in ‘a game’ with a particular set of rules that encourage some behaviours and discourage others, then it would seem obvious to focus on ‘the game’ and its rules if the intent is to alter behaviour.

           We know we don’t like ‘the game’ that is this particular economy. And we know we don’t like the behaviours it endorses and encourages via it’s various reward mechanisms. But we can understand or percieve the dynamics of the economy and its effects; we can see how it works. Which means we can change things…we can incrementally withdraw our participation from ‘this game’ while similtaneously setting up a new one.

           It can be done, has been done. And if a group of people (not even necessarily a huge number to begin with) are succesfully operating from a different, far more desirable economic premise that is not isolated from the dominant economic way of thinking and acting; and if they can find a way to promulgate it to the wider community/society, then hey, there’s your process.

           Otherwise, are we not relying on some supernatural or mystical mechanism to affect change? It’s always been one of my bug bears with Marx, that he envisaged…even relied on or had faith invested in, some ‘spontaneous raising of consciousness’ on the part of workers. And to me, that’s no different to religion and no more likely to produce results.
       • Uturn 2.1.1.2

         19 November 2011 at 11:14 am

         Some of the misunderstanding is that I did not define aspiration. Aspiration is not a hungry person feeling like they need food to change their state to one of satisfaction. Aspiration is constantly living in the future, rather than facing today. Building a better TV is a form of aspiration. Wanting to be the world’s best wakeboarder, is aspiration. Wanting to rule your village is aspiration. Planning for your holiday is aspiration.

         Anything that moves your mind forward from the present and creates an anxiety of what you imagine then not happening, is aspiration at work. Tackling real life problems as they happen is not aspiration. Aspiration is fueled by fear: what if we don’t have enough tomorrow? The line between fact and preparation and fear is very thin and aspiration is as dangerous as religion in the hands of those with child minds. It never comes with a warning. By the time a child is five they will know who Harvey Norman are, but not why they don’t need what those people sell.

         It is not built into the rules that you must pile up the corpses just to eat, be healthy and participate in a society. That thinking is condescending. It shifts responsibility from the aggressor to the victim, using fear to force him to enter the culture of aspiration. It’s what politicians use: cultural violence. Nothing is easy. To stop aspiration, each individual must decide to stop, and that will come at a price. It takes courage.
         • Bill 2.1.1.2.1

           19 November 2011 at 1:49 pm

           I think it is hope and fear that are companions, not fear and aspiration. The anxiety of ‘what if tomorrow doesn’t pan out as hoped’ is an expression of fear rather than a result of aspiration.

           Anyway, putting aside trivial yet highly destructive aspirations, what’s wrong with aspiring for a better world or a better whatever?

           And whether you like it or not, it is the rules of our market economy that we ‘must pile up the corpses just to eat’, as you put it. The alternative is to be one of the corpses. It’s winners and losers with nothing inbetween. Social democracy has tried to create a space in the middle through creating various welfare provisions within core national economies. But the cost of that provisioning has been borne by those living in the peripheral national economies being subject, literally and routinely to famine and various other precarious situations. (Piling up the bodies)

           The ‘civilised’ market economy flowed quite nicely and deliberately from the brutal, military backed plunderings of colonialism and ‘locked in’, albeit under a more civilised guise, the same dynamics of exploitation.
         • Adele 2.1.1.2.2

           19 November 2011 at 4:09 pm

           Aspiration is a positive rather than a negative. Aspiration is that quality of thinking that is transformative to the human condition, and defines our uniqueness as a species on Earth.

           There is absolutely no point to having a large brain without some purpose to drive its engine – purpose is fueled by aspiration.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.2

     19 November 2011 at 12:07 pm

     To me the problem is not that there are rich and poor; this will always happen as it’s human nature.

     No, it’s not human nature. It’s the nature of psychopaths which only make up a small percentage of the population. So, why are we building and accepting a psychopathic society?
3. Carol 3

   19 November 2011 at 7:28 am

   Vernon Small states that he’s heard claims that Nats polling this week did show some dips in support in the middle of the last week:

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion

   The early polls suggest Mr Key has not suffered, though insiders are divided. Some say National has sailed through unscathed, while others report internal polling recorded sharp dips on a couple of nights this week as the saga played out.

   Good analysis of the issues from Vernon Small, including turning Key’s extreme News of the World, youth suicide arguments back on Key:

   Since Mr Key has used the extreme, in the case of the rich couple and suicidal children, what if we apply the same logic here?

   What if Mr Key and Mr Banks were plotting a major crime? An unconstitutional takeover? What about a mass defacing of Labour billboards? Or even, as has been hinted at, they were discussing a coup in ACT? In the end the boundary is a judgment call, but there is clearly a case for the public’s right to know in some cases.
   • Pete George 3.1

     19 November 2011 at 8:06 am

     It’s worth nmoting what Small wrote aftyer that:

     What about lesser levels of public interest? Is there a right to know if the prime minister and Mr Banks say different things in private to in public? What about differences of style; that in private the carefully nurtured Brand Key drops and he is disparaging, even prone to the odd expletive?

     Don’t we all do that; present a different face in public than in private; so is it fair to hold politicians to a different standard?

     I agree with that.

     And I also agree with Small when he suggests it was one of the stupidist tea parties ever – Key seemed to be a reluctant participant, it was a desperate attempt at camp[aign revival by Act, egged on a massive omelette scale by the media.
     • millsy 3.1.1

       19 November 2011 at 8:58 am

       Truth be told, I dont really care what happens in this election as long as ACT doesnt get back in. “The good people of Epsom” have the best chance yet of voting for Goldsmith (even though he looks like a total smarmy jumped up tosser) and consigning ACT and its bunch of redneck social darwinists to the dustbin of history. I would rather National govern alone than in coalition with ACT. National only want to push you to the ground. ACT want to push you to the ground then put the boot in. I dont want the boot.

       And I’m sorry, Mr George, but voters in Ohariu-Belmont also have the chance to get rid of Dunne as well, and consign that bunch of jelly fish to history (if Labour were Coke and National Pepsi, then UF would be that watered down budget cola that costs 99c a bottle)..

       So if you are a left winger, who lives in Epsom, then vote Goldsmith. You have to do it. You have to ask yourself if we want Don “cut wages to catch up with Australia” Brash, John “Drink and drug crazed polynesian men are going to rape respectable white Epsom housewives” Banks, and Don “farmers can put what they like in the rivers because that’s how profits are made” Nicholson.
       • Sookie 3.1.1.1

         19 November 2011 at 9:35 am

         Agreed, I would derive great pleasure from seeing both of those pathetic parties gone, and the wretched sellout Maori party too, though that’s probably too much to ask. The best case scenario if the dubious polls are indeed right is that the Nats get the most votes but don’t have enough seats to pass asset sales legislation, mwahahahaha.
     • ianmac 3.1.2

       19 November 2011 at 8:58 am

       “Key seemed to be a reluctant participant, ”
       Oh really? He just looked smug and enjoyed saying “Not today.” Egged on by the media? Key set the scene so is responsible for the outcome. And if he lost the smug look well and good.
       • Willie Maley 3.1.2.1

         19 November 2011 at 9:05 am

         +1
       • Pete George 3.1.2.2

         19 November 2011 at 9:31 am

         The media weere pestering for a cup of tea story for a week up until it happened. Act may have been behind that, the way they promoted it at their “campaign launch” indicates theyb thought it was their saviour. But to me Key had seemed lukewarm.

         It was a media event, strongly promoted by media.
         • Lanthanide 3.1.2.2.1

           19 November 2011 at 10:42 am

           I agree, the tea party was in response to media pressure. Key or Banks/Brash could have come out a couple of weeks earlier and said that they had no plans for any meet up at all, and when questioned could have later said “there are no plans” instead of his stupid “not today” answer.

           In fact Key could have just given a long-form answer to a question that was effectively an endorsement for Banks without actually having to go through the stupid media stunt that it was. IMO that would have worked better as it would’ve been more genuine and less crass, and obviously in hindsight we wouldn’t have had this whole stupid tape problem.
           • Pete George 3.1.2.2.1.1

             19 November 2011 at 12:13 pm

             Yes, Key could have dealt with this better from the start. He didn’t instigate the circus but enabled it. But that’s history now, he couldn’t have foreseen the eventual circumstances nor the eventual media obsession with stuff all.
         • mik e 3.1.2.2.2

           19 November 2011 at 10:46 am

           Purile Git git over it Conman Key has been found out
           Jinxs every
         • Campbell Larsen 3.1.2.2.3

           19 November 2011 at 10:59 am

           The media are not running for parliament pete. It was a political stunt that backfired. If u actually believe the media wields undue influence you should have said something before – piping up now just makes you look like a NAct apologist – which you are of course.
           • Pete George 3.1.2.2.3.1

             19 November 2011 at 12:10 pm

             It was a political and media stunt. That combo dominates the campaign.

             How do you know what I have or haven’t said about media influence prior to this? It’s obvious the media wields significant influence and sometimes abuses that influence, this week being a prime example.

             The collusion between TV3 and Winston Peters when they publicised non-sensational supposed contents of the recording – quite possibly illegally (knowing nothing coukld be done about it before the election) – waas disgraceful.

             I’m not an ‘NAct’ apologist – that claim is just you with no argument so resorting to trying to smear.

             I don’t think Act deserve any success this election, Brash/Banks are a disaster (Isaacs may be better). I support some National policies, positions and priorities, and disagree with others. Same for Labour and Greens.

             I’ve openly supported some Green policies online and at candidate meetings. I have agreed with Clare Cullan and Michael Woodhouse and metiria Turei at candidates on some things, and I’ve also disagreed with them on other things.
             • Campbell Larsen …

               19 November 2011 at 11:11 pm

               “The collusion between TV3 and Winston Peters when they publicised non-sensational supposed contents of the recording – quite possibly illegally (knowing nothing coukld be done about it before the election) – waas disgraceful.”

               What about the collusion of mediaworks and the Nats when they produced Shonkeys radio show ‘moonbeam at midday….’ quite possibly illegally (knowing nothing could be done about it before the election) – disgraceful too?

               What is your/ united follicles policy position on foreign ownership/ regulation/ public service obligations in broadcasting and the media?
               If you actually give a shit about the fourth estate how about committing to some non negotiable policy that will help it become again the conscience and defender of our democracy.

               “But that’s history now, he couldn’t have foreseen the eventual circumstances nor the eventual media obsession with stuff all.”

               All of a sudden the man with 137 odd spin doctors in his employ couldn’t predict what would happen when he walked out of a press conference and got the police involved in a spat with a journo? Now he is a hapless victim of circumstance?

               Whatever.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.3

       19 November 2011 at 12:17 pm

       Is there a right to know if the prime minister and Mr Banks say different things in private to in public?

       Yes there is because it shows that they’re lying.

       I agree with that.

       You would but then you seem all for keeping the status quo, the secrecy and unaccountability that is presently within our political system.
     • Puddleglum 3.1.4

       19 November 2011 at 6:15 pm

       “Don’t we all do that; present a different face in public than in private; so is it fair to hold politicians to a different standard?”

       This highlights an important part of both the cause and manifestation of the malady we call the modern world. My answer is that we should hold everyone to that standard, politician and non-politician alike. 

       The split between the public and the private is a very recent phenomenon. The ‘private’ sphere itself is a late construction in history. 

       The very word ‘society’, in fact, arises with the courtly shenanigans in Europe (hence young belles ‘entering society’ in debutante balls). Interestingly, it arises in popular contemporary commentary (roughly, 16th and 17th C) at the same time as the concept of the ‘self’ (same reason; in the Royal Courts, presentation of self became an absolute obsession since it was the way to gain favour). Even more interestingly, it is coincidental with widespread commentary on ‘melancholia’.

       The public/private split is one of the contours of our modern society that needs to be eroded. It encourages a lack of ‘integrity’ (literally, an integrated character – across time and situations). 
   • freedom 3.2

     19 November 2011 at 10:38 am

     he also has this piece with Kate Chapman.
     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/fairfax-media-poll/5996629/Tape-talk-private-say-voters

     Funny how he neglects to mention how RNZ gave them a platform to talk policy from
     and National ‘declined to respond’

     on the private/public debate, this photo simply shuts the door on any suggestions this was a private situation

     http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201147/SCCZEN_A_121111NZLDWKEY01_460x230.JPG
     • ianmac 3.2.1

       19 November 2011 at 2:05 pm

       Note the opening where there is no soundproof glass to the right of Key. Private? Never!
       • seeker 3.2.1.1

         19 November 2011 at 5:26 pm

         Exactly right Ianmac.Could be seen on Campbell Live the other evening (Wed.orThurs) that someone was leaning around that opening just over John Key’s back . Key had to know he was there.

         How on earth could the idiots think they could not be over heard and so could have private/secret conversation???? It defies belief that they felt they could be so indiscreet.

         This meeting was just a stage managed set up so I thought. It would never have occurred to me that the idiots would use it to discuss serious private and duplicitous matters!! It was only a ten minute cuppa!

         Is not jk head of NZSIS? The example he sets of intelligent behaviour in Epsom should score ‘well below average’ on his carefully thought out national standards.
4. marsman 4

   19 November 2011 at 8:33 am

   Re Phil Goff not remembering figures when Duncan Garner demanded he produce them without reference to his notes was typical bully boy behaviour by man-child Garner.
   • Lanthanide 4.1

     19 November 2011 at 8:42 am

     I think most people will see through it.

     It’s one thing to ‘not have costings prepared yet’ (so claimed at the press ‘debate’), it’s quite another to have them written on a piece of paper in front of you and not being allowed to read the number off.
     • ianmac 4.1.1

       19 November 2011 at 9:01 am

       Key never has that problem of needing a crib sheet because he never fronts up for serious interviews and therefore needs to give no answers.
       • felix 4.1.1.1

         19 November 2011 at 9:28 am

         Aye, and any answers he does give are subject to change from day to day anyway, due to the dinimic environment.
         • seeker 4.1.1.1.1

           19 November 2011 at 4:23 pm

           How dare Garner say ‘no, don’t look them up’ to Phil Goff. It wasn’t a primary school mental arithemetic test for crying out loud.!!!!!!

           He was the one that asked for the exact / projected (oxymoron?) figures. He had already been told by Goff that they would be lowish, like20-50million to start with, and then grow. If he wanted more accurate figures, Phil had the exact figures to hand to tell him. And yet Phil was told – ‘no, no don’t look” !?! Are you sure??

           How rude,arrogant,priggish and ignorant the silly little Garner was. His childish behaviour was right up there with the ‘stupidest tea party’ ever this week..

           I despair of New Zealand ‘s media when we have such pathetic journalists as ‘uriah heepish not-a-clue’ Duncan Garner doing his level best to back the duplicity and ghastly exploitation of our democratic principles as practised by johnkey and his national party.

           Go and get a drink Duncan and look carefully at a future career in the used car trade- you’d be a sure fire winner there.Just your mental level, judging by your journalistic beheviour.

           (And Rebecca Wright tried to do a hatchet job on Goff on 3News last night with this spin.Has she gone to the dark side now she is in the gallery or was she ‘guided’ into doing this story by her political editor?)
           • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.1

             19 November 2011 at 9:25 pm

             Goff should have said – hey Duncan, why don’t you conduct the rest of your interview without any notes mate and so will I.
             • M …

               19 November 2011 at 10:12 pm

               CV, Phil should have shut him down straight off and said, “I will refer to my notes – I don’t need your permission” and given Garner the steely stare I know he can.

               Who the hell does that corpulent little toad think he is? He exists in a sea of unthinking, arse-licking hacks who would gladly serve as Key’s toilet paper for the rest of their lives.

               seeker I know you were trying to be kind but I wouldn’t rate Garner worthy of a post even as a used car salesman.
       • Carol 4.1.1.2

         19 November 2011 at 4:50 pm

         Actually, I thought Key had to use notes when he is giving speeches or in a debate, but Goff generally doesn’t seem to.
         • Banter 4.1.1.2.1

           19 November 2011 at 8:09 pm

           Correct. Key had notes at the televised leaders debate. Goff did not
           I look forward to him being asked to make his points “without looking John” from here on in
           • seeker 4.1.1.2.1.1

             19 November 2011 at 9:19 pm

             Ace idea Banter. Some one suggest this to John Campbell for Monday’s debate. If he’s not sure how to carry this out, he can always ask his tv3 colleague- the school exam invigilator himself Mr.Snape- Garner.
   • Pete George 4.2

     19 November 2011 at 10:23 am

     I agree that expecting any politician to remember every detail is unreasonable. Not much different to forgetting details of one of hundreds of personal conversations on the campaign trail.

     But in the heat of their biggest ego event not all political mediapeople think reasonable.
   • DJL 4.3

     19 November 2011 at 11:43 am

     Wasn’t it clever to dig up the footage from the debate. To bad they didn’t show Key reading from his notes.Paul Mcartney was wrong ($ 43 million ) can buy plenty of love.
5. aerobubble 5

   19 November 2011 at 9:25 am

   A court prosecutor has offical deem
   that an executive should stand trial
   for the unlawful deaths of 29 men.
   The local Mayor, still blithly makes
   out he such a nice guy. Sorry, but
   isn’t that the problem, nice guys
   are often compensating (with niceness)
   for not doing their jobs, alledgedly.
   Has a she’ll be right mentality locked
   NZ into periodic decline? Leading to
   child poverty, young migration overseas,
   managers who run a tight safety regime?
   Begger thy neighbor attitude ever
   presenting in the latest round of government
   cutting. Key is a nice guy too.

   Property is a tax, its a tax on everyone that
   has lost their access to use the property, now
   conveniently forgotten when talking about
   tax cuts for those who own the most
   property, not tax cuts for those who have
   little in the way of property.
   • mik e 5.1

     19 November 2011 at 10:49 am

     Local mayor Cockshaun wants more mining loves the Jinxed Conman Key
6. Pete George 6

   19 November 2011 at 10:28 am

   I had a dream…but it started as a nightmare.

   A nightmare of bickering and bull, where egos and ideologies over ruled…
   • freedom 6.1

     19 November 2011 at 10:40 am

     check your link
     • Pete George 6.1.1

       19 November 2011 at 11:06 am

       Not sure what happened there, have another go…
7. Benjamin B. 7

   19 November 2011 at 10:43 am

   http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-keeps-meeting-with-Anadarko-boss-quiet/tabid/1160/articleID/233099/Default.aspx

   […] John Key made time in his diary this week for a secretive meeting with the boss of an oil company that wants to undertake deep sea drilling off New Zealand’s coast. The company is controversial; it was party to the 2010 Deepwater Horizon spill in the Gulf of Mexico, one of the biggest environmental disasters in history. […]
   • mik e 7.1

     19 November 2011 at 12:27 pm

     Con mankey has aged considerably in the last week and it shows so much so that Next week he’ll be having a secret cup of tea with Winston who he will be needing to form a government.
     Just another broken promise [lie]par for the course .Any one with shares in race horses look for an increase in funding next year.200,00 children will have to miss out.
8. randal 8

   19 November 2011 at 12:20 pm

   mik e. kweewee is a jinx allright.
   if he gets another term then the whole weight of bad luck will come down on new zealand.
9. Jackal 9

   19 November 2011 at 12:20 pm

   Spilling outright lies

   It is clear that the oil and gas industry tries to minimize negative public perception and financial liability by falsely reporting the amount of oil spilled. It is much the same with fracking, with continued spills showing that self regulation and weak administration has failed to ensure environmental safety…
10. DJL 10

    19 November 2011 at 1:08 pm

    The victims of the Exxon Valdez have yet to receive one cent in compensation . Exxon just keeps tying it up in litigation.
    • mik e 10.1

      19 November 2011 at 2:09 pm

      The victims of pike river are in the same quandary after another broken promise by Nationals Brownoselee &manKey only one person has received the help all New Zealanders contributed to and now its 1st year anniversary for these grieving families.It shows the same level of concern that National had for the safety of the miners.SCF gets $1.6 billion straight away national voters mostly I bet!
11. Brett Dale 11

    19 November 2011 at 5:11 pm

    I normally believe in polls, especially if they are all saying the same thing, but the latest roy morgan poll has the greens at 13%?????

    FROM ROY MORGAN

    The latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows Prime Minister John Key’s National Party set for a clear victory in next Saturday’s New Zealand election with National (53%, unchanged) increasing its lead over the Labour Party (24.5%, down 1.5%). Support for the Green Party (13%, up 1%) has continued to increase while New Zealand First (3%, down 1.5%), ACT NZ (1.5%, up 0.5%) and United Future ( > 0.5%, unchanged) will all struggle to win seats in the new Parliament.
12. logie97 12

    19 November 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Anyone heard a rumour that National will means test super and (possibly aggregate other superannuation that you might be drawing) – claiming the changed state of the economy as the reason – below the radar at the moment but using the similar argument as they did for GST? Seems to be plausible considering the way Key has dismissed Labour’s plans to make superannuation more affordable.
    • ianmac 12.1

      19 November 2011 at 6:29 pm

      Remember Key’s remark during the CGT chat that the rich will just find other ways to hide assets.
      And this will also fit as the very rich will find ways of hiding assets against Means Testing.
      Wouldn’t it be great if National really followed Labour’s lead and got serious about finding ways to deal with those asset cheats or even legal ways of Avoidance..
13. Tigger 13

    19 November 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Possibly the best yet, the recording of Key and Banks having a public conversation is as bad as…a bomb! Yes, a bomb, that thing that blows up buildings and makes people explode…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10767070

    Granted it’s Paul Holmes practically writing a National press release (think he gets paid twice for those pieces? Once by the tories and once by the paper) but still. A bomb?
14. Uturn 14

    19 November 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Key ruined a very useful and accurate word when, in the minds of people, he associated dynamic with lying. It’s going to take some time to find a similar word that is readily understood. Thanks, Key: a knighthood for destructive services to the English language.
    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      19 November 2011 at 8:35 pm

      keep using the word properly. The Left is too keen to cede languaging to the Right. Key is an asshole.
      • seeker 14.1.1

        20 November 2011 at 1:26 am

        Actually I think Key has added a new word to the English lexicon – dinamic meaning to lie, as in “dinamic environment’ meaning an environment which facilitates lying or causes/allows one to lie. Princess Anne did a similar thing when she introduced the endearing word “naff” which can be used in the following ways: “‘John Key’s smile is so naff now,” or “John Key’s lies are naff .” or, “I wish John Key would naff off to Hawaii for good.”
    • Olwyn 14.2

      20 November 2011 at 12:21 am

      Spinsters have quite a record with word destruction. During the nineties “passion” was chucked around quite a bit as a euphemism for greed. And “aspirational” has had its tedious run: since aspiration means breathing as well as wanting more money and prestige (in Keyspeak), I presume these aspirational people want all the oxygen as well.
15. Colonial Viper 15

    19 November 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Fran Wild nails Key, tells him to “harden up”

    “Fast forward another 10 years and I am sure the Google cache will still be bringing up stories on how – on the eve of a general election – police targeted New Zealand media on Key’s wishes.

    Maybe police should have charged Key for wasting their time.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10767130
16. ianmac 16

    19 November 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Be interesting to see the format on Monday night TV 3 7-8:30, for the Leaders Debate chaired by John Campbell. Key V Goff.
    For me I will watch Key’s body talk and at times try listening with eyes closed to check on the credibility away from the “boyish charm.”
    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      19 November 2011 at 9:21 pm

      Ah yes thanks, I wasn’t sure when that was on.
17. locus 17

    19 November 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Is there any chance at this late stage before the election that the media. or even the Standard for that matter, will get back to the election opening broadcasts – reflecting the various parties’ values and differences in terms of competence, honesty and commitment to a fairer society?
18. Alistair 18

    20 November 2011 at 12:07 am

    Well we know that the nats will sell off our power companies to multinationals if they get the numbers in the election. That’s the only issue of importance for me. So that’s why I’m giving my party vote to Winston Peters for the first time ever. He is totally opposed to asset sales and most importantly is most effective as an opposition mp.

    Labour have been useless in opposition so for the first time ever they don’t get my party vote. I don’t care what other policies nz1 espouse, who gives a shit, I’m desperate. Asset sales is all I’m interested in and Peters unlike Labour knows how to speak to the public via the media and get a coherent message across. Perhaps with Peters’ example then Labour might realise what being opposition MPs actually means.

    Interestingly my father has always been a national voter but he is adamantly opposed to asset sales and in a quandary about who to vote for. I would say there are a lot of older voters like him. I advised him to vote for Peters as a tactical move; he agrees.
    • BooNats 18.1

      20 November 2011 at 12:56 am

      And do you believe that Peters will remain unalligned to any party. Stick by HIS word ? Voting away from National  to a “maybe”, is exactly what National want and a good way to  ensure asset sales will go through. The cup a tea was the same strategy.
      • Alistair 18.1.1

        20 November 2011 at 12:27 pm

        riding my motorbike down south I saw a hoarding for Maryanne Street as local Labour candidate. Who? I havent heard a word from her as an opposition mp in the past three years. Same with most of the rest of the high list ranking Labour mps. Im guessing Peters hates the nats due to their campaign against him prior to last election and opposes asset sales. Thats enough for me.
19. BooNats 19

    20 November 2011 at 12:40 am

    Some interesting twists by other National MP’s manipulating statistics this weekend in deceptive ways.
    Judith Collins quoted her role as a “spectatular” success and not one piece of investigation into the “7% drop in crime” claim by Key also..So magically this election swinging issue has crime minimalised because Judiths on to it? Boot camp was a vote winner in 2008..?
    2010/2011 Negligent acts endangering others up17.2%; SEXUALOFFENCES up 14.9% SEXUALASSAULT up12.3%;MANSLAUGHTER AND DRIVING CAUSING DEATH up 12.9%;ABDUCTION AND KIDNAPPING up 8.4%;DECEPTIVE BUSINESS/GOVERNMENT PRACTICES up 18.2%;
    FRAUD AND DECEPTION OFFENCES up 3%; BREACH OF VIOLENCE AND NON-VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS up; COMMERCIAL/INDUSTRY/FINANCIAL REGULATION up 53.3 %. Biggest rise and more money ever to “white collar crime” at a cost to every citizen.
    Public Sector cuts..CYFs struggling to cope with quote Ministers report over 2400 reports of child abuse EVERY WEEK..Police for all crime in this reported year had average of 65% resolution
    Why are such misrepresentations unchallenged ?

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