Open mike 20/06/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 20th, 2016 - 111 comments
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111 comments on “Open mike 20/06/2016 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    20 June 2016 at 6:11 am

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    Yet there are people who still care and who are unselfish.
    Te Puea marae represents the best of New Zealand.

    Uncaring.
    The present regime running WINZ and Housing NZ represents the worst.

    ‘Te Puea Marae steps up to find cancer teen and family a home
    Her father, who previously worked as a painter in Hamilton, tried to find his family a home.
    “He would go to Winz for appointments, he told them about me having cancer, about us.
    “They did nothing. He went to Housing NZ, told them. They couldn’t find us a house. Too full, they said, too full.”
    When things at her aunt’s “got really tense”, the family left and had stayed at the marae since.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11659501

  2. Paul 2
    20 June 2016 at 6:11 am

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    Uncaring and incompetent.
    Social Housing Minister Paula Bennett

    ‘Social housing and community agencies have not yet had approaches from clients wanting to take up a relocation grant, available from today, to move out of Auckland.
    The grant of up to $5000 announced last month by Social Housing Minister Paula Bennett will be available from today. The money for relocation costs will not need to be paid back unless the person moved back to Auckland within a year.
    Despite the scheme being launched today, the Ministry of Social Development could not tell RNZ News how many Housing New Zealand houses were available outside of Auckland, and where they were.
    “It is too soon to answer this question. The grant is available for any vacant housing, including private rentals, or social housing,” the department said in a statement.
    At the time she announced the grant, Paula Bennett said there were dozens of empty houses in other parts of New Zealand, such as Lower Hutt where there were 18 state houses ready to let, Palmerston North where there were 15 and Gisborne with four.’
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/306790/'little-information'-on-grant-to-move-to-regions

    • Sabine 2.1
      20 June 2016 at 7:30 am

      making shit up as they go along.

      or maybe instead of reading the future with the help of tealeaves and bones, they ‘Ministry of Social ‘Welfare” is waiting for Paula Bennett to drop a dump and then they gather around the turd and read the future out of that.

      Oh look, she had sushi last week for dinner.

      • Paul 2.1.1
        20 June 2016 at 7:43 am

        Apparently ( according to Tracy Watkins of Fairfax) Bennett was at the Field Days a lot last week.
        Too busy to be dealing with the housing crisis…….

    • Paul 2.2
      20 June 2016 at 7:42 am

      Apparently ( according to Tracy Watkins of Fairfax) Bennett was at the Field Days a lot last week.
      Too busy to be dealing with the housing crisis…….

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      20 June 2016 at 1:23 pm

      The grant of up to $5000 announced last month by Social Housing Minister Paula Bennett will be available from today.

      I wonder if she realises that $5000 isn’t actually enough to cover the expenses of moving a family.

      • Augustus 2.3.1
        20 June 2016 at 4:39 pm

        Nor does it say that $ 5000 is the amount anyone who moves is going to get. Firstly, its “up to”…, secondly knowing WINZ they will want quotes for everything, then pay out not a cent more, even if those quotes were a guess. Family and friends helping out won’t get anything for their efforts, but a moving company will.
        If anyone hears of (and proves) a case where this offer was taken up and the person given $ 5000 to relocate at their leisure, I will eat my hat.

  3. Paul 3
    20 June 2016 at 6:18 am

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    Yet there are people who still care and who are unselfish.
    Kai for Kids represents the best of New Zealand.
    A government that rejected Mana’s Feed the Kids Bill 4 years ago represents the worst.

    ‘1200 school lunches in under an hour: Porirua community pitches in to help hungry kids
    “Attendance is really low on Mondays and Tuesdays because Wednesday is benefit day.”
    “Kids don’t come to school because they don’t have any food to bring.”
    Two months later, Clifford and her volunteers now make 1200 lunches for a dozen Porirua schools.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/81198151/1200-school-lunches-in-under-an-hour-porirua-community-pitches-in-to-help-hungry-kids
    http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/politics/feed-kids-bill-looks-doubtful

  4. Adrian 4
    20 June 2016 at 8:16 am

    The fucking Herald must be being paid for this shit. It has run a piece on poor Paula as a victim ” I’ Ve been cyber bullied because of my size”. Well stop eating so many fucking pies then !.

    • Greg 4.1
      20 June 2016 at 9:38 am

      its when National decamp from the chamber for Bellamys, as soon as question time in Parliament is over. I doubt they serve pies.
      The media are getting irrelevant, from promoting social engineering like bullying ,oh poor me child Max Key, and reading his latest antics of his music video, to children of musico’s complaining they just get sex offers from men because their daddy is famous.
      Nationals brighter future is the homeless sleeping in Aucklands Well lite CBD.

    • weka 4.2
      20 June 2016 at 10:23 am

      Unfortunately it doesn’t matter what large people do, they always attract abuse including in the form of people telling them there is something wrong with them for the way they eat. In other words the problem with fatphobia is that too many people have prejudices about fat.

      Call Bennett out on her politics, her meanness and the atrocious government she works for. Plenty of material there without going for the prejudices about fatness.

      • Rosie 4.2.1
        20 June 2016 at 11:40 am

        “Call Bennett out on her politics, her meanness and the atrocious government she works for. Plenty of material there without going for the prejudices about fatness.”

        +1

        Same goes for Gerry Brownlee too. Call him out on his stubborn bullish authoritarian ways, not his size.

        Prejudice against another’s body is unhelpful. We have no right to make judgements or assumptions about people’s diets, especially as we don’t know, and have no right to know their medical history, such as prescription medicine side effects, endochrinological/hormonal disorders and or injuries that prevent exercise that may have contributed to a person’s weight gain. It’s not all about food.

        Drop the fatphobia folks. It’s discrimination.

      • Adrian 4.2.2
        20 June 2016 at 12:29 pm

        I called her out because she intimated that she couldn’t,t help being that big, I doubt that she has an endocrinological or hormonal problem because that only occurs in a very very small percentage of people, ( but it makes a good excuse for those unafficted ) and she was half that size when she entered politics and got introduced to the trough in all its permutations.
        BTW, I’m overweight and I’m that way because I eat too much and if someone calls me fat I have to agree with them.

        • Lanthanide 4.2.2.1
          20 June 2016 at 12:35 pm

          You know, there are other reasons for people being fat than “endocrinological or hormonal problem[s]”, or “because [they] eat too much”.

        • Rosie 4.2.2.2
          20 June 2016 at 12:57 pm

          Your weight is irrelevant Adrian. It’s not about others agreeing whether you are over weight or not. You know that and so what. If you know you eat too much then that’s your buzz, it doesn’t mean EVERY other big person is big for the same reason as you.

          Your weight doesn’t give you license to attack others for the same reasons.

          Pullya Benefit is a nasty vindictive spiteful person who bullies others by disclosing sensitive and private information so she can put herself in a position of power.

          Her size has got nothing to do with it, and we know nothing of her medical history and shouldn’t speculate on it either. That’s her business, not yours or mine.

          • weka 4.2.2.2.2
            20 June 2016 at 2:21 pm

            +2

          • Puckish Rogue 4.2.2.2.3
            20 June 2016 at 3:38 pm

            For what its worth, agreed

            • Rosie 4.2.2.2.3.1
              20 June 2016 at 4:17 pm

              Noted, pr. I suppose we can all experience life’s little surprises now and then, like you and me agreeing on something 😀

          • whispering kate 4.2.2.2.4
            20 June 2016 at 8:31 pm

            Rosie I see where you are coming from, but she has been, not so long ago much smaller than she is now, she yo yo’s with her weight but she can obviously get smaller from eating less, so it probably isn’t a hormonal problem. I see it more as an emotional problem as being an eater for comfort because of the stress of her job and/or being out of her depth or just because she over eats because she enjoys her food. What I cannot understand is seeing she is seen as an intelligent women, surely she sees the health issues she is bringing on herself, heart problems and definitely diabetes because of all her “belly fat” which is what the medical profession call it. Its difficult not to criticise when there are many people who can lose weight and keep it off – self discipline plays a part and pride in one’s appearance is another. Now don’t bite my head off please.

            • Rosie 4.2.2.2.4.1
              21 June 2016 at 11:46 am

              Again. Some one else’s size is their own business. Why do we feel we have a right to criticise or even speculate about their supposed issues? What’s it got to do with us? It doesn’t matter if Pullya Benefit’s shape has changed in the time that we have seen her in parliament.

              Speaking of “self discipline and pride in one’s appearance” is very much the line fatphobics use. What you are saying is fat people are ugly and lazy. That is highly prejudiced.

              Another sign of fatphobia is faux concern for another persons health. And you do realise that not all heart disease is weight related don’t you? My father died at age 54 from heart disease and he was an average size man. Mr Dr tells me the biggest indicator for heart disease is genetics, even above and beyond smoking. Stress is a bigger killer than weight, so why aren’t we hating on all the stressed people? A person can be overweight but still be fit and healthy and live a long life.

              Don’t get sucked into the hate Kate. You’re better than that.

  5. Andrew Little for Leader 5
    20 June 2016 at 8:17 am

    I hope the NZ police are keeping an eye on this website, whose readers are celebrating the killing of Jo Cox and looking forward to similar acts here: https://yournz.org/2016/06/19/crusader-rabid/

  6. Tarquin 6
    20 June 2016 at 8:20 am

    Another day of Pauls impotent whining. Do us all a favour and stay in bed.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1
      20 June 2016 at 9:14 am

      Sounds like you make a special effort to read Paul’s comments 🙄

      • Tarquin 6.1.1
        20 June 2016 at 12:07 pm

        Not really, I try to see things in a positive light and see no point in trying to bring everyone down with a daily dose of repetition. The sun is shining, it’s the shortest day onward and upwards.

        • McFlock 6.1.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 1:10 pm

          desperately looking for that brighter future, eh?

        • Rosie 6.1.1.2
          20 June 2016 at 1:48 pm

          Tarquin, how about the eye of the beholder thing? Winter solstice, I mourn because I love the cold, short dark days of winter – all moody and introspective as they are, yet cosy, safe and warm by the fire.
          Like a true former teen goth I celebrate summer solstice as it’s marks the countdown to winter. Until Autumn comes it’s long wait through the drunken violence of summer (other’s, not me), water restrictions, insufferable heat, mozzies and flies, phoning noise control at 1am, and invites to hideous work xmas parties.

          Can’t all see the world the same way eh?

          • Tarquin 6.1.1.2.1
            20 June 2016 at 2:36 pm

            Very true, I’ve only just finished moaning about the heat and now I’m wishing it back again. Up here in Northland we don’t get a real winter, maybe a frost or two and it just rains all the time. I had a white Christmas in England a few years ago – that’s how winters should be.

            • Rosie 6.1.1.2.1.1
              20 June 2016 at 3:22 pm

              Ha ha. Well you’re living in the right part of the country if you like it warm.

              Like wise, in winter in the southern hemisphere can you pull off an alright mid winter xmas, minus the snow unless you live somewhere really cold. I’ve done some good solstice parties over the years, around the fire.

              As for Paul. What he is posting is politically and socially relevant. It IS the depressing truth. It’s really hard to jazz up our reality in any way that makes it palatable. Because of that I find it a bit much early in the morning myself so flick through. However I always read Paul’s posts he posts separate to the early wake up morning cup of depression. I guess we all have ways of expressing our anger and grief over our witnessing of our country going to the dogs.

        • Johan 6.1.1.3
          20 June 2016 at 4:06 pm

          You sound very much like National’s ex-party president Michelle Boag, who was on the panel of Q&A last Sunday. She appeared to be oblivious of the strive people were going through in this country, apparently in her eyes all was rosy;-)))

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2
      20 June 2016 at 1:29 pm

      By the sounds of things you should be the one staying in bed. You obviously need the rest as you’re getting overly stressed-out.

  7. Richardrawshark 7
    20 June 2016 at 8:30 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/cyber-bullying/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=1504076

    PB oinks about bullying this morning, does anyone else find this ironic?

  8. ianmac 8
    20 June 2016 at 8:42 am

    Funny how John Key only has time for a few minutes before 8am to be interviewed on RNZ.
    By the time he blusters and confuses the issue under questioning the time pips sound. End of story.
    Wonder if he chooses the time for the interview?
    Guyon could record an interview that went past 8am and play the balance after 8.

    • Rodel 8.1
      20 June 2016 at 9:01 am

      Hone’s interview by Guyon would be more interesting but his attempt at humour, trying to be the ‘comeback kid’ in an analogy to a band with singers and bass players etc. is about as silly as his artificial dote com fiasco.

      We have enough clowns in parliament already.

  9. ianmac 9
    20 June 2016 at 8:54 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11659634
    A new, to me, Herald news summary online with visuals. Like TV I guess.

  10. Colonial Viper 10
    20 June 2016 at 10:24 am

    German Foreign Minister Steinmeier says NATO should not be inflaming the situation with Russia

    Berlin (AFP) – German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier has criticised NATO for having a bellicose policy towards Russia, describing it as “warmongering”, the German daily Bild reported.

    Steinmeier pointed to the deployment of NATO troops near borders with Russia in the military alliance’s Baltic and east European member states.

    “What we should avoid today is inflaming the situation by warmongering and stomping boots,” Steinmeier told Bild in an interview to be published Sunday.

    “Anyone who thinks you can increase security in the alliance with symbolic parades of tanks near the eastern borders, is mistaken,” Germany’s top diplomat added.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-slams-nato-warmongering-russia-115515814.html?ref=gs

  11. Rosie 11
    20 June 2016 at 12:02 pm

    So weka, back to answer your question, you raised here:

    http://thestandard.org.nz/kiaora-matariki-puaka/#comment-1190406

    or at least attempt to.

    “It seems like we have waves of momentum, and then gaps. What can we do to fill the gaps or at least tide us over?”

    Probably best if someone who has been in a leadership in activism for decades to answer this curly one. However my 2 cents worth centres around socialising. Yes, socialising, on and off line.
    Personally though, I prefer the off line version. In meeting new people and growing bonds with those we know, in person, we don’t miss out on all the subtle non vocal expressions that create a depth to the relationship. We can create intellectual relationships on line and they can be enhanced as we, as a collective (I”m talking about the wider world, not us on TS necessarily) create and ride a wave, but energy falls a bit flat during the troughs does it not? EG, look at online conversation pre and post general elections.
    Although, in saying that, I noticed the opposite on the Bella Caledonia site post Scottish indyref – the talk was flat out, soul searching, expressing feelings etc. They even had a guest post by a psychologist to analyse the results and fall out. Their response could be down to different cultural approaches to communication – The Scots might be better communicators than NZer’s, I don’t know. (but the Scots I know and have met are great talkers and listeners)

    So, I see advantages in socialising as in holding momentum during trough periods. During these times we build loyalty, maintain bonds, maintain solidarity, and maintain the flow of ideas. New ideas can be discussed and existing ones reworked. The group’s mutual interest remains a living thing rather than it being sucked into a vacuum of loss. Socialising keeps an interest alive and when the time comes to ramp up activism the platform is stable and the group is already in synch to go to work on a project or campaign.

    Hope that makes sense.

    • weka 11.1
      20 June 2016 at 2:29 pm

      Wow, that is such a great comment Rosie, I wasn’t expecting it to go in that direction.

      I completely agree. I’ve been in online communities where there is more relationship building than happens here or on places like FB or twitter, and so that social thing where you have something solid happens more. But still I agree that the place it needs to happen most is in the physical world. I don’t know how to make that happen in my own life because most people I know are really focussed on life outside of political realities. I guess that’s why I come here.

      But it reminds me of something that Naomi Klein said last year, when asked how she keeps going, she said it’s really important to get in a room with people who are doing the same kind of work, struggling with the same kind of things. I think you’ve really nailed it there, where it needs to happen within normal community interactions if it’s going to be stable and resilient (maybe Klein was talking about something else).

      • Rosie 11.1.1
        20 June 2016 at 3:42 pm

        Take it from a pro, Naomi Klein would know. 😀

        I empathise with your situation of not being physically around others who are focused on political issues/emerging social realities. It’s the same for me.
        I do believe group social meeting is what we are going to need, to strengthen us for the next election, just for starters, as we have far bigger ongoing threats to our very existence, in climate change, as well as maintaining momentum and influence.

        I think a while back Bill set up a regular meeting in Dunedin, where people met in a park. Hows that going people? Is there a way for Standardista’s to meet in person in their regions?

        As I thought about socialising being a key thing to strengthening a group committed to a similar goal I received mail in my inbox from the Labour Party gen sec. He was asking if you were a 20 – 30 something professional interested in socialising. A great move I thought, along the lines of what I’d been thinking about. If that wasn’t your thing, age wise or work wise there was a survey to fill in with your thoughts about doing something similar.

        I would be interested to see how many people turn up to a party AGM compared to how many people turn up to a party social gathering, especially if it’s a low cost thing. $ is a barrier for some of us.

        Personally, in light of the Lab/Green MOU, I’d like to see a seasonal social get together, to build solidarity and to forge ties at the grass roots, where it really counts.

        • Rosie 11.1.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 4:51 pm

          That should read “Naomi Klein’s a pro, she would know”. Just so there’s no confusion about who the pro actually is. 😀

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.2
          20 June 2016 at 6:44 pm

          I think a while back Bill set up a regular meeting in Dunedin, where people met in a park. Hows that going people? Is there a way for Standardista’s to meet in person in their regions?

          Unconnected to the Standard, there are a few interested politically aware Dunedinites meeting in the next week as part of a Matariki event. I haven’t been involved in the organisation of the event but I would expect there to be 20-30 very politically interested minds show up.

          In general terms I agree that face to face, in person political socialising is crucial to our future.

          • Rosie 11.1.1.2.1
            20 June 2016 at 8:15 pm

            That’s really good to hear CV. Off the keyboards and exercising the vocal chords instead of the fingers. Hope it’s a fruitful event 🙂

  12. save nz 12
    20 June 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Endless war, endless greed: The Pentagon is lining its pockets with taxpayer dollars
    Obama now plans to rebuild America’s nuclear weapons cache, the latest in a series of military enrichment schemes

    http://www.salon.com/2016/06/18/the_pentagon_is_soaking_us_all_partner/

  13. save nz 13
    20 June 2016 at 12:55 pm

    Trump’s lies aren’t unique to America: Post-truth politics are killing democracies on both sides of the Atlantic
    Voters no longer value truth, and Donald Trump and Boris Johnson are dangerously exploiting the new paradigm

    http://www.salon.com/2016/06/19/trumps_lies_arent_unique_to_america_post_truth_politics_are_killing_democracies_on_both_sides_of_the_atlantic/

  14. Richardrawshark 14
    20 June 2016 at 1:00 pm

    _LPRENT

    You’ve been pretty harsh with a couple of my comments last couple day so i’m bringing it here to open it up and sort it.

    Yep I made a couple boo boo’s, I retaliated too this

    [deleted as irrelevant]

    [lprent: This isn’t a negotiation, it is an observation of a continued pattern of behaviour and a demand for a permanent modification of some of those behaviours from a moderator. There is no point in various moderators continuing to point out deficiencies in your behaviour if you are too damn lazy or too thick or too self-entitled an arsehole to modify those behaviours.

    1. Read the policy again. It is clear you haven’t understood it.

    2. How you feel about it has absolutely no relevance and I suspect you don’t have sufficient experience with operating a blog to even be able to offer it. You are a guest on this site, your host is telling you to shape up or ship out.

    3. Your only viable alternative to changing your behaviour here is contained in the last section of the about.

    4. The only reason I’m bothering with this tedious exercise is because you haven’t been a particularly obnoxious pest guest until recently.

    5. I really don’t care what you decide to do. So I won’t waste any more time on it. ]

  15. save nz 15
    20 June 2016 at 1:09 pm

    This is a heart wrenching article. And in our back doorstep. Why do not NZ take the Nauru refugees – it is hard to see how these detention centres can be considered legal under human rights legislation – in particular for the unaccompanied children committing suicide.

    “The worst I’ve seen – trauma expert lifts lid on ‘atrocity’ of Australia’s detention regime
    Exclusive: In his 43-year career, Paul Stevenson has worked in the aftermath of the Bali bombings and the Boxing Day tsunami but says nothing he witnessed was as bad as the treatment of asylum seekers on Nauru and Manus”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jun/20/the-worst-ive-seen-trauma-expert-lifts-lid-on-atrocity-of-australias-detention-regime

  16. Richardrawshark 16
    20 June 2016 at 1:30 pm

    How many people out there think mental illnesses equate to a lower intellect, or reduced mental capacity?

    I have found here some resistance to my points of view based on the fact I am mentally ill.
    I am in fact B-Polar, and I have an IQ of over 160 according the 2 of the Psychologists who treated me through Hep C treatment.

    My illness caused a chemical imbalance in my brain which causes me to have periods of massive empathy/depression and periods of manic/sleepless, fast thinking, impusiveness.

    if untreated.

    Currently outlooks for Bi-polar people are good, it does take time to find the right chemicals and once a balance of chemicals has been restored we live completely normal lives.

    I recently found the right medication , for me it was Effexor, I snapped out of depression in the time it took for the pill to get into my blood stream and have been stable for over two months now.

    Comments from LPRENT such as..

    “I really can’t be bothered dealing with commenter’s mental issues over and over again and having them disrupting a reasonably rational debate. I suspect you don’t understand yourself well enough to understand your own issues and therefore are unlikely to be able to control yourself. So any ban that I am forced to issue will be for some time”

    and the other day you insulted me and my mental health just like someone who knows absolutely nothing and is predjudiced.

    I am shocked at the way you talk to and treated me, uses my disabilty and mental health to question my intellect and integrity.

    • Rosie 16.1
      20 June 2016 at 1:55 pm

      Hi Richard. I can’t comment on the exchange you’ve had with LPrent.

      I can, whole heartedly support you in your recovery from depression and your belief (or what I see as fact) that mental illness is in no way related to intelligence.

      I’m someone who struggles with depression and chronic insomnia to the point where I can no longer work/ or find suitable part time work, so I’m thrilled to hear you’ve found a medicine that works. That can be a really liberating feeling.

      Go well and stay well.

      Kia Kaha!

      • Richardrawshark 16.1.1
        20 June 2016 at 3:26 pm

        Thanks Rosie, after so many years trying it was super liberating to not dive into depression whenever a saw a animal run over or bad news.

        I have 2 months of stress less life now and i’m chilling back out daily. I feel the tension relax and everyday gets better without having to worry if I was about to swing in moods.

        Prozac, citalopram, epillim by the truckload, they give you the antidepressants and assume you’ll be fine come back in a month they say, it never did squat, they even thought I was lying and putting it on after all the tablets didn’t do much, it took me over ten years of that and a Hep C treatment that has side effects of making you suicidal, to find a brilliant new Dr who took me over from my old Dr and she cured me in one med change.

        I had given up, never give up if the meds aren’t working change them don’t linger on non active antidepressants Rosie is all I can say.

        • Rosie 16.1.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 4:13 pm

          Awesome to hear you’re doing so well Richard after years of suffering. That really is a breakthrough. Well done you! It’s a good feeling, I find, to be back to one true self and feeling safe and well.

          It is hard for people in a clinically depressed state to cope with problems, bad news, and upsetting sights. You become sensitised to things and it spirals down. I’ve had to work with being overly empathetic to animal suffering but deal with it in different ways now.

          I’m fine and dandy on the paroxetine now but still an insomniac. I use sleeping pills about 3 times a week to get by. I also try to keep a different future in mind too. Once the clouds lift you can see there are good things that ARE going on.

          Take care. Rosie

    • lprent 16.2
      20 June 2016 at 2:17 pm

      I’ve had to deal with acute depression a number of times in my life, and seem to have quite a few friends and family with various mental aliments – including bigotry. I expect to help and deal with issues to do with it as and when I need to.

      But what I was referring to was your attitude and actions on this site. Here I’m not interested in dealing with, protecting or helping you. I’m interested in protecting and helping this site as a place for debate. The way we do to deal with bad behaviour for WHATEVER cause, is to warn about behaviour and (if required) to remove the ability to write comments.

      The proportion of people commenting or authoring on this site with various afflictions (mental, physical, bigotry or addictive) probably isn’t that too dissimilar from society at large. However most of them manage to control their behaviour to the level that I don’t notice them. I can’t see any reason that I should treat you differently to them.

      There are limits to the amount of time that I (or any other moderator or author) can be expend on this site. And after more than 8 years of doing it, I tend to push so that I don’t have to spend too much time dealing with someone acting like an arsehole. I find it is less of a problem to whack hard once so I don’t have waste time to play whack-a-mole with dickheads.

      • Richardrawshark 16.2.1
        20 June 2016 at 2:40 pm

        Respect Lprent, sorry you had too crack out the sledgehammer , but I respect your doing it, now that we had a chance to one to one, vs catching each other on a thread, and distracting from the thread.

        Some of the odd comments were tongue in cheek and I have learned humour often gets taken literally here if your not super careful to announce how your inferring a comment.

        My comments should tidy up as a I get more familiar with the morally accepted peer standards here.

        Thanks again for posting this and allowing me to relate my concerns and have them answered.

        Kind regards
        Richard

        [lprent: Ok, the warning has been heard. Removed from moderation. We will see how it goes. ]

        Thanks for that.

        • Draco T Bastard 16.2.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 3:13 pm

          Some of the odd comments were tongue in cheek and I have learned humour often gets taken literally here if your not super careful to announce how your inferring a comment.

          Humour, more often than not, simply doesn’t come across in text. To indicate that you’re being humorous usually means that you have to add smileys and/or tags.

          • Anne 16.2.1.1.1
            20 June 2016 at 3:47 pm

            Humour, more often than not, simply doesn’t come across in text. To indicate that you’re being humorous usually means that you have to add smileys and/or tags.

            Yes. I learnt the hard way in earlier days. Tongue-in-cheek comments were taken too literally by some and I ended up on the receiving end of a few unpleasant barbs. Even adding emoticons or plain language tags is not always a guarantee. Best to confine oneself to such comments when the post itself is humorous and/or satirical in content.

            • Puckish Rogue 16.2.1.1.1.1
              20 June 2016 at 4:14 pm

              Try being humorous on here if you’re seen as a tory 🙂

              • Anne …
                20 June 2016 at 4:23 pm

                Right wingers with a sense of humour are usually given credit on this site. Just remember to add the smiley or a humour tag so we know… 😉

                • lprent …
                  20 June 2016 at 4:54 pm

                  Or a /sarc tag so I (and others) don’t take what is said literally.

                  You have to remember that in this environs we can’t see the puckish smile (wasn’t he a rodent in one of williams plays ?) /sarc .

                  • Anne …
                    20 June 2016 at 5:43 pm

                    … we can’t see the puckish smile (wasn’t he a rodent in one of williams plays ?) /sarc .

                    No, he was fairy. 😀

                    I played him once in a high school play.

              • Stuart Munro …
                20 June 2016 at 5:26 pm

                It doesn’t come across as puckish when a policy hurts someone – making a joke of their pain is provocative.

                • Anne …
                  20 June 2016 at 5:51 pm

                  C’mon Stuart Munro. Just because we have a teeny wee bit of fun doesn’t mean we don’t feel strongly for those who are the victims of this heartless and horrible government. Some of us have even been there in one form or another.

                  There’s still room to lighten up and maybe even have a laugh at ourselves.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    20 June 2016 at 6:01 pm

                    Yes… except that with a pretty vacuous and actively biased MSM there is little or no channel for normal outrage. A not too politically interested person who gets their news from TVNZ, stuff, and the Herald could be forgiven for thinking that Nick Smith was vaguely competent or Paula Bennett compassionate.

                    There is a need to roundly damn this government, in adition to dispassionately discussing alternatives. The trolls never sleep, and never miss an opportunity to paint this vicious and dysfunctional kleptocracy as marginally competent and technically human.

    • weka 16.3
      20 June 2016 at 2:17 pm

      I agree that that part of Lynn’s statement was a form of prejudice in terms of mental health and I wish he hadn’t made it. I hope you can pull back a bit anyway, because I like your contributions on ts in general, and I think you bring perspectives that we don’t otherwise have and I find that valuable. There are rules though, and if you break them too often it’s easier for the site to give you time out.

      I do think you are stepping over the bounds a lot at the moment, and you will get moderated for that. Different moderators have different ways of approaching that.

      fwiw, Lynn is an equal opportunity moderator and will be abusive to everyone pretty much equally if they piss him off as a moderator. That’s the bit to understand, it’s not a personal thing so much as what is seen with a moderator hat on. It takes time to moderate, there is more involved than in just making a comment. And that time is time we don’t get to spend doing other things. One of Lynn’s trigger points is where he finds he is having to use a lot of time on one person when they’ve already been warned.

      My own is people derailing threads (you’ve noticed I’m sure) either by posting off topic or by posting things that are inflammatory.

      I’m really happy to explain where I think you are overstepping the bounds if that’s helpful. It is good to reread the Policy, and they still need to be understood in the context of the culture of ts. Lots of people don’t get that, and some of those people end up with bans.

      Moderation has changed a bit in the last 6 months, and IMO there has been an improvement in the debate culture. There is less tolerance for bickering and troll derailments. Shutting them down early on keeps discussions much more focussed on the topic of the post, which is the point of the site.

      I’d see two main things happening with you at the moment. One is taking personal grudges across multiple conversations. It just disrupts thread, so if you can let it go, or keep it in the thread it originated in if it’s appropriate, that’s going to cause less disruption and get less moderator attention. If all else fails, do what you have done today and take it to Open Mike.

      The other is to focus more on the politics. You have interesting ideas and ones that are challenging to some here, so finding ways to communicate those without having a go at people will work better in the long run. Yes, lots of what happens here is unfair (e.g. someone is rude to you and doesn’t get called on it). But it’s on all of us to act within the rules as much as we can and lower the need for moderation in the first place.

      edit, just seen Lynn’s comment above, which is a very clear explanation that behaviour will be moderated no matter what the cause.

      • lprent 16.3.1
        20 June 2016 at 2:25 pm

        I agree that that part of Lynn’s statement was a form of prejudice in terms of mental health…

        Only in that I view the type of bigotry that he was displaying as being a type of mental illness. It is pretty damn hard to explain it any other way. I’ve talked to enough bigots on various subjects (including some very intelligent ones) to realize that in some people it appears to be hardwired well below any cognitive layer.

        • weka 16.3.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 4:41 pm

          I think it was more just that thing of equating behaviour with mental illness when it’s pretty hard to know how much of anyone’s behaviour comes from that. And people with formal mental health diagnosis like bipolar already get stigmatised more than most, and attributing behaviour to their mental illness tends to make that even more so.

          Bigotry is a different thing IMO.

          I’m glad you explained what you meant to Richard and that he gets it now. All good.

      • Richardrawshark 16.3.2
        20 June 2016 at 2:43 pm

        Equally understood, Weka, again sorry for the trouble.

        I replied to Lprent and the same curtesy and sentiment is given to you.

  17. Puckish Rogue 17
    20 June 2016 at 2:33 pm

    Rant begins

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/81219380/renewed-calls-for-euthanasia-debate-as-petition-submissions-set-to-break-record

    I don’t know if this has been posted today but its a weak and cowardly position of Andrew Little over this and its even more cowardly and weak of john Key in not picking this up as well

    Basically every politician, no matter what party they’re with, that doesn’t support this is a gutless coward

    Maryan Street is completely right about this, we at least need to start talking about it

    Rant over

    • BM 17.1
      20 June 2016 at 3:23 pm

      I’ve seen Whaleoil mention the Catholic Mafia within National as being the main block in the euthanasia debate.

      Same probably applies to Labour,

      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1
        20 June 2016 at 3:31 pm

        Didn’t think the Catholic Church still had that amount of power today

        • weka 17.1.1.1
          20 June 2016 at 3:39 pm

          I’d say Bill English is staunchly prolife.

          • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1.1
            20 June 2016 at 4:39 pm

            “staunchly prolife” engenders a whole spectrum of political beliefs in of itself, starting with an understanding that life is sacred and it is not man’s place to play God with and take others’ lives.

            • BM 17.1.1.1.1.1
              20 June 2016 at 4:46 pm

              So you’d be against euthanasia, CV?

              • Colonial Viper …
                20 June 2016 at 6:35 pm

                http://thestandard.org.nz/voluntary-euthanasia/#comment-1124288

                Yes, for various reasons, I think that any Government Authorised Suicide programme is a bad idea.

                There are hundreds of improvements which should be made to the care of terminally ill people before this measure is even considered.

                BTW if NZ ended up performing euthanasia at the same rate that the Dutch do, we would have 1,450 Kiwis a year die under a Government Authorised Suicide programme.

                Yes, that’s four times NZ’s annual road toll.

                And we’d be investigating whether or not the programme should be extended to children under 16 years of age.

        • BM 17.1.1.2
          20 June 2016 at 3:40 pm

          Bill English, Michael Woodhouse ,Chris Finlayson, Chester Borrows and probably quite a few others.

      • McFlock 17.1.2
        20 June 2016 at 3:37 pm

        Yes, there’s always a chance that joyce might make a tilt at the top job at any time. Slater needs to head that one off at the pass for his mate.

        • BM 17.1.2.1
          20 June 2016 at 4:01 pm

          I think Steven Joyce prefers to be the power behind the throne.

          • McFlock 17.1.2.1.1
            20 June 2016 at 4:25 pm

            as an imminent grease

            • Colonial Viper 17.1.2.1.1.1
              20 June 2016 at 6:47 pm

              I doubt the National Party Board and their major funders consider Joyce as an electable leader for the National Party. So I do not think that he will have any support from that quarter. And without that support, any leadership coup attempt is going nowhere.

              • McFlock …
                20 June 2016 at 7:52 pm

                I’m just working on the idea that Slater doesn’t give an opinion without an ulterior motive – a comment above suggests that his “Catholic mafia” line could have been aimed at knobbling any number of contenders 🙂

      • Incognito 17.1.3
        20 June 2016 at 8:11 pm

        Before you jump to conclusions about the Catholic Mafia you may want to read this interview (plus 2 comments) with Simon O’Connor who is the chairman of the Health Select Committee that is tasked with the inquiry. Mr O’Connor was almost ordained as Catholic Priest.

  18. Draco T Bastard 18
    20 June 2016 at 3:22 pm

    Syria: Another Pipeline War

    The fossil fuel industry’s business model is to externalize its costs by clawing in obscene subsidies and tax deductions—causing grave environmental costs, including toxic pollution and global warming. Among the other unassessed prices of the world’s addiction to oil are social chaos, war, terror, the refugee crisis overseas, and the loss of democracy and civil rights abroad and at home.

    As we focus on the rise of ISIS and search for the source of the savagery that took so many innocent lives in Paris and San Bernardino, we might want to look beyond the convenient explanations of religion and ideology and focus on the more complex rationales of history and oil, which mostly point the finger of blame for terrorism back at the champions of militarism, imperialism and petroleum here on our own shores.

    It’s an interesting history lesson that connects the dots of US imperialism for the last 60+ years.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1
      20 June 2016 at 4:35 pm

      How nice it would be for the Western Empire to have a Qatari pipeline going through Syria; it would ensure energy supplies to Israel and the EU could access a massive amount of gas while cutting Russia out of the loop.

      Damn that Assad for not allowing the use of his country for this project. He’s simply got to go.

  19. marty mars 19
    20 June 2016 at 4:02 pm

    horrible misappropriating bastards

    http://fineartamerica.com/shop/shower+curtains/lindauer

    so culturally wrong but someones got to make money somehow //bangs head on anything…

    • McFlock 19.1
      20 June 2016 at 4:21 pm

      gosh.

      That entire site is Trump-tacky-ular…

    • joe90 19.2
      20 June 2016 at 4:45 pm

      Although I went to the trouble of identifying the work and the man portrayed I managed to get myself involved in a rather unpleasant flame war with another blog host when he posted the image below.

      But he didn’t seem to be able to understand why some would find the manipulation offensive.

      https://www.instagram.com/p/BD0t7ELvUV-/

      • marty mars 19.2.1
        20 June 2016 at 5:09 pm

        that one made me sick joe

      • Macro 19.2.2
        20 June 2016 at 5:31 pm

        What sort of cultural infant would even think to do that?
        And as for the shower curtains!! 😒
        I wonder if the descendants have made any representation to these unthinking idiots?

        • McFlock 19.2.2.1
          20 June 2016 at 5:35 pm

          If NZ took a leaf from the yanks’ book we’d make reproductions of moko illegal, and then try to extradite the sellers for “money laundering” because the payments were transferred from one account to another.

          Might even get a helicopter raid on their home…

  20. In Vino 20
    20 June 2016 at 4:33 pm

    Am I the only one who heard Kathryn Ryan shout down Matthew Hooton this morning? First good moment in bloody years…

  21. mauī 21
    20 June 2016 at 4:53 pm

    Kiwi troops to stay in Iraq for another 18 months. No one saw this coming.. then again I remember various spokespeople from the left saying this is exactly what would happen.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/81265744/kiwi-troop-deployment-to-iraq-has-been-extended-by-18-months

  22. Richardrawshark 22
    20 June 2016 at 5:04 pm

    Key said the intention was not to go beyond two years and the mission would be reviewed in 12 months. At the initial deployment.

    really,

    Now he extends them for another 18 months.. that’s 18 months on top of the 2 years. Oh btw did he not mention we are at war now or is that coming later.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11659951

    • mauī 22.1
      20 June 2016 at 5:44 pm

      Last line of that article:

      Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee said New Zealand “was not insulated from the sort of events we have seen in Orlando”.

      Wtf!

  24. Richardrawshark 24
    20 June 2016 at 8:05 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11660016

    Now don’t bust your mouse furiously following this link nor froth so much your unable to offload your love of all things Paula Bennet.

    However Barry Soper’s lovely post on PB just popped up and what do you know a comments section on her is open.

    Good luck guys let her and Soper know we know, if you know what I mean.

    She does not care, she’s a bully, you know the truth.

    • ianmac 24.1
      20 June 2016 at 8:34 pm

      The $5000 is in part to be given to the removal Company and just $2000 given to the people as a start up grant, they said on Morning report today.

  25. Nigel Cameron 25
    20 June 2016 at 10:14 pm

    So John Key , how do you feel about people sleeping under bridges?

    JK : We’ve had a bit of a discussion about that and we are quite comfortable with that really, I mean there is no real safety issue here as the vehicles are well above them and being under the bridge they shouldn’t pose a distraction for the motorist. If they want to live under a bridge then be my guest.

    Arrr, I was more referring to the homeless problem.

    JK: Well I haven’t had any homeless approach me directly about this, but we desperately need more roads and bridges and we are pushing that through so that should produce a win win situation with the extra bridges.

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