Open mike 21/03/2022

45 comments on “Open mike 21/03/2022 ”

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1. arkie 1

   21 March 2022 at 7:22 am

   https://twitter.com/TRyanGregory/status/1504433347631755268?cxt=HHwWiMC9nZWK6eApAAAA

   As we rise to the news of the PM reviewing mandate, vaccine passes and the traffic light system, it's important to remember what we are actually dealing with, something that can't be wished away or put aside for the next political issue.

   The US has chosen to prioritize the economy despite strong, countless studies that COVID harms many people, even those without #LongCovid or hospitalization. COVID predominantly affects the *vascular* system (the blood vessels), causing harm to the blood cells & blood flow;

   this has a downstream impact on nerves, immune system, & multiple organs, including the brain. Vaccination prevents against death, but not against long term damage.

   Your first COVID infection can leave you with pre-existing conditions that will make you more vulnerable to subsequent infections. #LongCovid

   If COVID circulates forever, you will be more vulnerable with every year that goes by.

   There is no permanent protection from this, neither from vaccination not infection. Having some immunity does not prevent damage on subsequent infections. COVID infections can impact fertility in all genders, making conceiving harder and causing more miscarriages.

   Even having *non-hospitalized* COVID increases the risk of 18 severe vascular conditions, including strokes, heart failure, clots, embolisms.

   https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1502034441010569221.html
2. Ad 2

   21 March 2022 at 7:41 am

   Pretty weird to see the PM referring solely to an upcoming IPCC report for the Parliamentary occupation.

   It's Ardern's modus operandi to shut down or constrain reviews of anything that occurs on her watch: the Christchurch Massacre commission was remarkably narrow. Whereas things that are 'in the past' like abuse in care gets an incoherent and endless Royal Commission leading nowhere.

   I wold have thought that something that was so offensive that the PM wouldn't even meet and actively shamed to make sure no other elected member would either, when they came by their hundreds to see her right at her place of work, was worth a bit more investigation. Wellington Council has a strong interest, as does the Speaker and Parliamentary Services, as does the DPMC security evaluation team, as does the SIS, as does the people of Wellington, as do we all.

   We've gone from 'rivers of filth' and 'deep anti-semitism' to a tidy little report on prior Police planning decisions.

   Clean, Labour, real clean.
   • fender 2.1

     21 March 2022 at 10:36 am

     Don't expect to see any mention of a bunch of fools ( one of whom died in Peka Peka of Covid afterwards) in any Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports.
3. Peter 3

   21 March 2022 at 8:34 am

   You don't want a "tidy little report" but you want an investigation, a review?

   What of? The whole shebang? Why? We saw what happened, we know what happened? Do you want it to go to the TMO to tell us all over again?
   • Ad 3.1

     21 March 2022 at 10:52 am

     It should cover, at a minimum:

     – Whole intelligence community warnings of what was being planned, and how the security apparatus reacted. Examination of how they were funded.

     – What if anything could have been done better to decrease threat

     – Parliamentary security arrangements, and Parliamentary recovery

     – Some interviews with the protesters about force proportionality

     – Wellington Council service impact

     – How to react better next time: not hard to imagine protesters getting a few clues on how to be more effective.
     • Shanreagh 3.1.1

       21 March 2022 at 12:38 pm

       I would rather concentrate on following up the funding means behind this enormous protest, if this ability to derive income to fund an illegal occupation was able to be investigated and therefore stopped …..we will be forearmed. We need to have a family tree of links between the orgs present and the people present and the funding flows.

       Rather than force proportionate stuff, I think those of us who watched saw huge numbers of missiles thrown at the Police who just moved steadily in. The investigation of the links between this violent resistance and the steady Counterspin propaganda would be interesting. Also to see if riot police should be on hand at future large protests, were the police best equipped?

       What part was played by having a headless entity, who do people talk to……it seemed to be a tactic that paralysed the usual means of dealing with protest groups.

       Actually having written all this, I think the choice to have the low key investigation is the better idea. This was a relatively small group of malcontents whose voice was larger than its real influence. We need to ask about how they were policed and if this could be improved.

       Out of this low key investigation we may get ideas for looking at other needs

       • role and influence of malicious and malignant social media,
       • can we do anything about mis- & dis-information
       • what role has education have in being able to help our citizens work out when they are being scammed of their money/commonsense?
4. Francesca 4

   21 March 2022 at 8:53 am

   I must say I'm so heartened to note how every one has now found how much they hate war.

   So perhaps now we can pay attention to the victims of the Yemen war, and the deliberate starvation of Afghan children, the ongoing genocide in western Papua and the continued bombing of pensioners and children in eastern Ukraine?

   Seeing as how we hate war and all.

   https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2203/S00039/omg-war-is-kind-of-horrible.htm
5. Gosman 5

   21 March 2022 at 9:08 am

   What are people currently doing with their time if they are not growing sprouts on the kitchen bench ? People CHOOSE to spend their time in different ways. Of course you can try and ENCOURAGE them to take up hobby gardening but given the pressures of modern life they are still likely to prefer buying a finished product at a local shop that might not be more expensive. Cities have encouraged specialisation in activity for a reason. It generally is more efficient to focus on behaviour that you are good at than a range of activities that you might not be so great at.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • DB Brown 5.1

     21 March 2022 at 9:20 am

     When I put water and seeds in a jar, and then the next day as I await some water boiling for a cup of tea, I change the sprout water… I often wish that I had a degree in sprout making. And many more hours for the water change.

     Links you've not read, opinions that make no sense, on subjects you know nothing about. Supreme effort.
     • Matiri 5.1.1

       21 March 2022 at 9:32 am

       Remarkable things – sprouts in a jar. One tablespoon of seeds gives several cups of tasty, crunchy, nutritious sprouts in just a few days. Cheap and easy – what's not to like?
   • AB 5.2

     21 March 2022 at 10:46 am

     Cities have encouraged specialisation in activity for a reason. It generally is more efficient

     I'm not sure the anthropologists would agree with you entirely. Although it's true that specialist tailors, shoemakers, flint-knappers appeared very early (actually before cities as we understand them), this isn't the only thing they did. And sometimes it was a seasonal activity, after which they switched to something else.

     Speculating here, but it seems to me that very narrow and permanent specialisation is probably the result of coercion of some sort. Most likely arising from the ability of some people to dominate others and command how their labour should be directed – like the contemporary employer-employee relationship.

     To describe it as 'efficient' is therefore to take the perspective of the person who is in command and seeks to extract surpluses. For the person doing the work it may be unfulfilling and alienating, therefore inefficient in that sense.
6. Gosman 6

   21 March 2022 at 9:12 am

   I think if you can get people to engage in hobby farming more power to you. However it is unlikely to solve any climate problems as it is never going to have a significant impact on food production as it goes against some basic economic principles as I have pointed out. You would have more of an impact if you looked at how you could make mass produced food production more climate friendly than trying to massively increase local home grown produce.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
7. Gosman 7

   21 March 2022 at 9:14 am

   I AM suggesting solutions to tackling climate change. Focus on the big not the small. I am pointing out why it is better than focusing on the small.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
8. Jimmy 8

   21 March 2022 at 9:33 am

   Leo Molloy's idea to get rid of undesirables in the city is to spray them with water.

   He must share ideas with Trevor Mallard as that worked well in Wellington on the protestors.

   Auckland Mayoral candidate Leo Molloy's 'inhumane' plan for 'undesirables' in Auckland CBD – NZ Herald
   • Blazer 8.1

     21 March 2022 at 10:21 am

     As an ex bankrupt that cost taxpayers/ird circa $450,000 (and DB about the same),what makes him think he has what it takes to be mayor of NZ's…. biggest city?
     • Visubversa 8.1.1

       21 March 2022 at 11:53 am

       And a person who was frequently an asshole to his staff. He was certainly not a stranger to the Employment Tribunal when I worked there many years ago.
       • Blazer 8.1.1.1

         21 March 2022 at 12:19 pm

         also this…and lots more…

         [unlinked quote deleted]
         • weka 8.1.1.1.1

           21 March 2022 at 12:32 pm

           I deleted your quote because it didn't have a link. If you can copy and paste a paragraph you can copy and past a URL.

           Further, given we're talking potentially defamatory comments that put the site owners at risk, it's even more important that you post a link so we can see who is saying what and in what context.

           At some point I will start banning people for this shit, especially repeat offenders. It's been said ad nauseum: if you copy and past you have to link, every time.
   • AB 8.2

     21 March 2022 at 10:23 am

     Who gets to define "undesirables"? Might someone take a firehose into the Northern Club and sluice it clean of years of accreted privilege?
9. Belladonna 9

   21 March 2022 at 11:11 am

   This is where the Government needs to be putting education resourcing – not on tweaking the curriculum to include NZ history and digital literacy.

   Nearly one in five 15-year-olds are not meeting the lowest benchmark for reading, and a further 20 per cent are only achieving at the most basic level.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-education-hub-report-exposes-crisis-in-literacy-in-aotearoa/5I3FPLAP64J22J3U4C6CD6NTX4/?c_id=1&objectid=12512233&ref=rss

   The Education Ministry (from whom the Government are taking advice) simply will not admit there is a problem with the whole 'balanced literacy' approach – which is still being taught in Teacher training as the default method. Despite decades of evidence that it simply does not work for a significant minority of children.

   If you cannot read – or are functionally illiterate (that is, you can read your name, and a few words, but can't decode and comprehend a basic sentence) then you are set up to fail in the schooling system, and in most jobs.

   None of the data in the report was new, she said.

   "But so far it hasn't triggered that national response to say 'Hang on, things are in a really terrible state here. We need to do something'."

   The reality was probably worse because all this data is pre-Covid and many students had now had two years of disrupted learning, she said.

   This is a problem (kids not learning to read through the 'balanced learning' approach) which affects all socio-economic groups in NZ. However, the rich can contract out of under-performing public schools – either by using private schools, or supplementing with tutors. Poor families don't have those alternatives.
   • Puckish Rogue 9.1

     21 March 2022 at 11:17 am

     Certainly isn't new

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84820782/twothirds-of-prisoners-cant-do-everyday-literacy-tasks
     • Shanreagh 9.1.1

       21 March 2022 at 12:18 pm

       Couple this with deafness. Then you have the perfect chicken/egg situation. Then add non diagnosis/remedying of such easy to fix health problems as glue ear and the insertion of grommets…….

       https://www.audiology.org.nz/news/could-a-hearing-check-help-prisoners-reintegrate-into-society/
       • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1

         21 March 2022 at 2:44 pm

         Agreed
   • Shanreagh 9.2

     21 March 2022 at 12:14 pm

     If you cannot read – or are functionally illiterate (that is, you can read your name, and a few words, but can't decode and comprehend a basic sentence) then you are set up to fail in the schooling system, and in most jobs.

     to which I would add

     and life in general'

     And to add the point I have been banging on about vis a vis the protesters and some of the anti vaxxers, it won't enable you to be aware of when people are trying to scam you of money or your commonsense.
10. SPC 10

    21 March 2022 at 12:34 pm

    People in parts of the city now under Russian control were "being illegally deported to enemy territory", Mariupol's City Hall said Sunday.

    Pavlo Kyrylenko, a local offical, said: "The occupiers are sending the residents of Mariupol to filtration camps, checking their phones and seizing their Ukrainian documents."

    Russian state television showed interviews with residents blaming the destruction on Ukrainian nationalists and thanking Russian forces for liberating them.

    "They set major supermarkets on fire … They are real maniacs," one woman alleged of Ukrainian far-Right groups. Vladimir Putin has insisted the invasion is an attempt to "de-Nazify" Ukraine.

    Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president, in his nightly address to the nation on Saturday, described the Russian onslaught on the city as a "terror that will be remembered for centuries to come".

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-residents-forcibly-taken-across-border-to-russia/7W7NGNLXOWXDDXUT7BD55WHMIA/

    The taking of documents prevents any of them getting out of Russia and also intimidates them from speaking out.

    Misidentification of Victims under International Criminal Law: An Attempted Offence?

    https://academic.oup.com/jicj/article/15/2/291/3611533

    Russia is identifying itself as an international criminal.

    Russia firing of thermobaric rockets

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-residents-forcibly-taken-across-border-to-russia/7W7NGNLXOWXDDXUT7BD55WHMIA/
11. Dennis Frank 11

    21 March 2022 at 2:44 pm

    Splitters eliminated:

    Zelensky announces ban on 11 Ukrainian political parties… “Any activity of politicians aimed at splitting or collaborating will not succeed,” Zelensky said.

    The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided to ban the activity of Opposition Party — For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc, Zelensky said.

    https://www.axios.com/ukraine-ban-political-parties-russian-ties-af264ecd-9ad4-4e98-9f87-76f32300fd5f.html

    Most of the parties affected were small, but one of them, the Opposition Platform for Life, has 44 seats in the 450-seat Ukrainian parliament.

    The political move comes as Zelenskiy aims to further assert his influence over the country’s media sphere. On Sunday, the Ukrainian leader signed a decree that aims to unite all national TV channels into one platform, citing the importance of a “unified information policy” under martial law.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspends-11-political-parties-with-links-to-russia
    • SPC 11.1

      21 March 2022 at 2:56 pm

      It is currently the biggest pro-Russian political party in (Ukraine's national parliament). The party denounced the invasion on 8 March 2022.

      On 20 March 2022, the party's activities were suspended by the National Security and Defence Council for the period of martial law.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_Platform_%E2%80%94_For_Life
    • lprent 11.2

      21 March 2022 at 3:58 pm

      Yeah, been wondering when that was going to happen. It is a pretty routine part of the martial law provisions in any country (including NZ). It will be interesting to see what the position of their equivalent of a wartime Ministry of Information will be. Stupid and single message as the Russians (I believe that the only journo they have at the front is Chinese). Or something different.

      The initial shock has been handled. Now the Ukrainians are settling into a long painful conflict posture. The front-line cities have already been bled and blasted. The enemy has been mostly halted and bled out of an ability to advance. A quarter of the Ukrainian population has been displaced.

      The room for negotiation is now going to narrow from the Ukrainian side.
      • Dennis Frank 11.2.1

        21 March 2022 at 4:56 pm

        Two whole hours since I posted it & still nobody drawing an analogy to Hitler 1934. But yeah, a temporary situation due to martial law. He could try a bit of overt reassurance to help the paranoid do a bit of reframing, perhaps:

        "Look, I know these 11 parties are a bunch of real cool dudes (& dudesses) but we need strength in unity at present. Think of it as a temporary suspension of democracy until peace breaks out, okay?"
        • Barfly 11.2.1.1

          21 March 2022 at 8:54 pm

          I d refer you to Oswald Mosley in 1940 rather than Hitler in 1934 after all they are in a hot war.
12. SPC 12

    21 March 2022 at 2:45 pm

    It looks like a week of rained out, or rain impacted games, to conclude the One Day cricket World Cup.

    South Africa (4 wins) only need only one rained out or drawn (not completed game) of their last 3 games to qualify. So look certainties.

    That leaves Windies (3 and possible 5 wins), India and England (each 2 and possible 4 wins) to contemplate which has the best venue and weather forecast combination.

    At least the long range forecast for the semi-finals and final looks good.
13. adam 13

    21 March 2022 at 2:46 pm

    I'm tired of this weka.

    With odd comments and people just out right ignoring reality, it's tiresome.

    We have a problem and whilst most of us want to make it better we can not.

    No I'm not saying it's hopeless. BUT!

    The military, the US military are doing more damage in a day, than what any of us could cause in a life time. Yemen, Ukraine, Iraq, and almost half of Africa are in conflict.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-currently-at-war

    Until we stop the war machine, we are not stopping this, and anything we do, is all but pointless.

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-military-planet-earths-greatest-enemy-abby-martin/279768/

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • roy cartland 13.1

      21 March 2022 at 3:16 pm

      Ok, so stop the war machine is your suggestion. How? (Not a challenge, a genuine appeal for ideas.)
    • weka 13.2

      21 March 2022 at 3:21 pm

      Until we stop the war machine, we are not stopping this, and anything we do, is all but pointless.

      If you were saying "I don't know what to do", I'd have left your comment under the post. But you're not, you're actually saying nothing can be done. I said I won't have denialism under those posts. Not because you are wrong (although I think you are), but because what you bring to the conversation inhibits change. And we simply cannot afford this now.

      If you cannot see how Just Transition increases our chances of ending war, I think you truly have some blinders on. I'm sorry for that, I see it very differently.
      • adam 13.2.1

        21 March 2022 at 5:13 pm

        If you were saying "I don't know what to do", I'd have left your comment under the post. But you're not, you're actually saying nothing can be done

        I'm calling bullshit on that. No I am not saying nothing can be done. I'm saying what needs to be done.

        The US military has had all sorts of exclusion from international debates on this topic. The last Glasgow forum was a classic example – not one measure against the worlds biggest carbon burner. Not bloody one! And the US won't even come to the table if the military is talked about.

        And you say I'm the one with blinkers on.

        The quickest and most effective change we can instigate, is to stop the burning of carbon from a out of control military.
        • Incognito 13.2.1.1

          21 March 2022 at 5:24 pm

          Awesome thoughts!

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2022/02/10/army-military-green-climate-strategy/
          • adam 13.2.1.1.1

            21 March 2022 at 5:28 pm

            A puff piece supporting the war machine

            Sheesh dude anything better?

            And next time if you going to link something, can it be so I can read it full screen rather than having to scroll through a million adds?
            • Incognito 13.2.1.1.1.1

              21 March 2022 at 5:40 pm

              Chill, dude, change the settings on your device or your browser (no, it’s not those bushy bits above your eyes). Did you count them all – you must scroll really fast?

              Didn’t like the message, did you, because it doesn’t fit neatly into your narrative?

              No wonder your comment got moved to OM.
              • adam …

                21 March 2022 at 11:56 pm

                No I did not like the message from the post, as I'm not a militarist, who jerks off on war.
        • weka 13.2.1.2

          22 March 2022 at 9:46 pm

          No I am not saying nothing can be done.

          Ok, I took the "all but pointless' but to mean nothing can be done. But if you mean that there's not point in working on other aspects of the long emergency until we address the Russian war on Ukraine, you still didn't say what can be done right not.

          I'm saying what needs to be done.

          Yep, everyone has their reckons. I'm much more interested in what can be done, right now.

          Solutions in the long emergency by necessity come in multiple, interlocking dynamics. So yes, that war is a driver of both climate change and climate precarity is important, and there are lots of things there that need to be addressed.

          But if we put other things aside, in NZ, and don't work on climate change apart from addressing war, another five years go by and we're still all driving round in cars and happy with our imported food and lifestyles supported by highly polluting industries.

          The quickest and most effective change we can instigate, is to stop the burning of carbon from a out of control military.

          Sorry, but this is exactly the thinking that causes climate catastrophe in the first place. We have to address all the things, the interlocking things, not pick out the biggest and say oh let's do that and ignore the others. That's like saying NZ shouldn't bother about our emissions and we should focus on the US or China instead, as if all the small countries combined don't have serious GHG emissions problems.

          It's not that you think stopping war is important, it's that you came into a post about action, slagged everyone off as if you know best, and then proceeded to tell us what we should be doing. You can think and act that way, you just can't do it under a post that is trying to create alternatives to that approach.
          • adam 13.2.1.2.1

            23 March 2022 at 3:23 am

            But if you mean that there's not point in working on other aspects of the long emergency until we address the Russian war on Ukrain

            You what now? I was talking about the worlds largest carbon burner, the US military.

            I'm much more interested in what can be done, right now.

            So the US military is not in any international agreements to limit it consumption, is that not a problem right now? Are you happy to let them role on being the massive problem they are, and not even talk about it? So if we fix all you say, and the US military keeps doing what it's doing, we are screwed.

            I agree we need to be doing a lot of things, but not holding the US military to account is a very serious mistake. Abby Martin and others have put out a lot of information out on this – see my original link. Have you even looked at the data?

            For me stopping war is secondary, stopping the exploding militarism, and expansion of US military – with it's Africa adventure at the forefront of most peoples minds, is what I want stopped right now. That is where the problem lies, not so directly in war, but in the war machine.

            I'm not upset by being moved off your post, your post, your way. I forgot you don't like the hyperbolized rhetoric I'm prone to – on your posts, and for that I apologise. I'll stick to open mic.
14. Puckish Rogue 14

    21 March 2022 at 2:49 pm

    The truth will out but they got what they wanted I suppose
    • Blade 14.1

      31 March 2022 at 11:39 am

      Miranda Devine. I wondered where she got to. A great Aussie export.
15. Dennis Frank 15

    21 March 2022 at 3:07 pm

    A US military think-tank features in-depth strategic analysis here: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-20

    The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported the number of insubordinate Russian personnel who are refusing combat orders is “sharply increasing” in the Kherson and Mykolayiv oblasts on March 20. The Ukrainian General Staff reported the Russian military commandant office in Belgorod City is investigating 10 Russian servicemen of 138th Motor Rifle Brigade who refused to continue fighting in Kharkiv and agitated for other Russian servicemen to abandon their posts.

    The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense reported on March 19 that “some [Russian] naval infantry units” (unspecified which, but likely referring to Eastern Military District units deployed to the fighting around Kyiv) have lost up to 90% of their personnel and cannot generate replacements.

    The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) additionally reported on March 20 that Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu signed an order to prepare to admit Unarmiya (Russian Youth Army, a Kremlin-run military youth organization) personnel aged 17-18 to fight in Ukraine on March 15. The GUR further reported Colonel General Gennady Zhidko, head of the Russian Military-Political Directorate, is in charge of executing the order.

    The Ukrainian General Staff reported on March 19 that Russian officials “severely reprimanded” the head of the 652nd unit of Information and Psychological Operations for his “weak efforts” and inability to create a “Kherson People's Republic."
16. Professor Longhair 16

    21 March 2022 at 3:34 pm

    What sanctions did we place on the United States and its henchmen following the destruction of Iraq, Libya, and Yemen?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    

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