A little bit of self censoring is going on here, by Chomsky himself.
He says he knows some very fine journalists, but refuses to name them.
I wonder why?
Is it because if Chomsky told us their names we could actually check that they are the fine journalists he claims they are? If Chomsky named these fine jounalists surely he would be doing them a favour by giving them some well deserved publicity. If Chomsky named these journalists, we could actually check to see if among the names are the genocide deniers and apologists for Assad fascism, Chomsky has previously identified as fine journalists.
Makes you think about most of the news,
About the terrible State of Venezuala.
If Maduro was really a totalitarian Dictator. How come Guido, and his mates, who actually were involved in violent coup attempts, are still alive?
Much worse situations, in real authoritarian right wing Dictatorships are ignored, by media.
Frank Macskasy: not happy.
“But really, what did people think was the purpose of Southern and Molyneux to visit Aotearoa New Zealand? To engage in rational debate with progressives over a cup of Earl Grey and gingernut? To do the Tourist Thing and take ‘selfies’ on the Fox Glacier?
What did we think their purpose was to visit Aotearoa New Zealand?
Let me answer that. They were not here to debate. They are past debate.
They were here to (a) encourage new recruits amongst the disaffected and (b) re-energise existing far-right and alt-right groups.
It took barely six months after I wrote my rebuttal to permitting the Polite Fascists to visit. They came, nevertheless. They made their public speeches. (There was no debate.) And they left, to continue their ‘mission’ to spread their poison somewhere else, to eager listeners with anger and hate in their minds.
So we had our free speech. Only, it wasn’t “free”. There was a cost attached.
The price for their free speech has been paid-in-full. By the gods, we paid dearly.”
We don’t allow foreigners to buy more than 50% of a New Zealand company so we allow any one to visit here, and we get to hear what they are saying about us. We do not let them tell us what to do or how to set or laws or how to look after our own people. People in New Zealand are allowed to walk around in the bush and say what ever they like. They’re not allowed to murder people. If we classify people who may say risky stuff as the threat then we will dilute what it means to be a real murderer / terrorist as it was when for decades the security aperartus falsely believed lefties was a threat diluting what it means to be a real murderer / terrorist,
So Robert Guyton you still have not connected the dots, that you were one of the key people who helped Southern and Molyneux get such a wide platform in your mad rush to ban them.
One day you might work out that the right never get censored, only more air time when tools on the left try and censor them.
But I’d say look closer to home, look to talk back radio and the corporate press. Or the frothing anger fueled rant by the former PM screeching “getting some guts”. All that racial hate was already here, already in the popular discourse, even dare I say it – mainstream.
And If you think we should get a free pass for our own racism and blame someone from outside – or the ‘other’. Then I’m seeing very little difference between you, Southern, and Molyneux.
Adam. Be still. The “mad rush to ban” Southern and Molyneux you attribute to me is nothing more than a figment of your imagination. If you can truly see “very little difference between” me and those two, your vision is seriously compromised, I would suggest. You did notice that I was quoting an article written by Frank Macskasy, yes?
My post, Adam, began:
“Frank Macskasy: not happy.”, and went on to quote him.
My only comment was, “Frank Macskasy: not happy.”
Where on earth did you draw your inferences from???
“Then I’m seeing very little difference between you, Southern, and Molyneux.”
So untrue and rude – open your eyes cos you’re spraying where spray isn’t needed. I know it’s tough but I’d suggest focus and being in the moment today to fully be there for our dead and injured and hurt. Kia kaha.
I did adam I really did I just wanted to support Robert because whatever the beef is, that comparison could never be true imo. Robert is a good guy, they aren’t.
I agree with you Adrian, on the promotion and publicity given to Southern and Molyneux when they were to visit NZ.
We already have laws in NZ regarding “hate speech”, if they broach those laws they should be arrested and prosecuted. If the laws need review, then that should be done. As you mention, we have state broadcasters paying presenters to cultivate intolerant views amongst our communities. We should recognise the harm of that as well.
Allowing such people to talk, also allows our currently failing media to openly discuss and dismiss their intolerance and prejudices en masse, and with certainty.
We get a good idea of the number of locals who are such fans they are prepared to pay for tickets, and we avoid them having the “injustice” and “persecution” flag to rally their followers with.
We need to learn how to identify and recognise those NZers whose intolerance has reached concerning levels. Having them attend a speaking event where they can be counted and assessed is surely a good thing for security and mitigation.
We need to describe the process of white supremacists having their their brains filled with this shit exactly the way the media and politicians use for ‘others’. That is, they are being radicalised.
I don’t think I’ve heard this word used once when talking about these white fascist scum.
Another concern of mine, is that any prohibition outside of current legislation will give precedent to any succeeding governments. And their idea of ‘radical’ speakers, may include those who talk about climate change, climate justice, income equality or global responsibility.
If our current legislation is not robust enough, then we should amend it.
This guy also so had socialist and eco fascist leanings, short man syndrome ….. Irrespective trying to put him on a political spectrum is counter productive, to me he was just one evil SOB
The action of the individual who can’t be named is just one evil sick prick, don’t give him excuses he at the end of the day made the choice to do what he did irrespective of so called influencers, for you to play politics with this is disappointing, taking your arguement I could blame the green party for eco terrorist
I see Colonel Trotter has advanced his position from last weeks “You can’t stop lone nutters” to “Restricting hate speech and fighting fascism and racism will…”
a) involve heavy censorship of all media including libraries because the CCH terrorist was inspired by history books
b) possibly make the anti-racists and anti-xenophobia campaigners a target, as Breivik targeted the Danish Labour party (not that the far right don’t already target these groups)
and
c) you can’t do anything really because no matter what you do some in society will alway hold malicious prejudice
Yet also advocating for a strengthened and empowered Human Rights Commission, which will basically do all the things he says you can’t do.
All layered in the usual critique of Davidson and Gharahman, completed with the now obligatory ‘woke’ criticism.
JP
I object to you calling Chris Trotter ‘Colonel’ and I object to the tone of your comment.
Right wingers who use this horrible action by an extreme, murderous group that feeds on the blood of, usually, disaffected males who have never found anything to live for, are not going to spread this disaffection without being called out. You may feel encouraged by TRP’s comments about Trotter but don’t think that you can turn that into a long shadow that darkens this blog.
Chris discusses different aspects of our culture and psyche along lines that we may not like. He lets us into the dress-up store and try on the different coats that are there.
The white coat of purity (no good soon gets dirty), perhaps black (very popular non-colour in today’s NZ), red (reminds us of fire), yellow (a bit bright and clear, we like to merge into the background). Some don’t like him because they don’t like to think and examine the country, our society, themselves. You think you are thinking, but are you just on automatic, thinking while going forward is important.
You will be interested in his latest post.
Trotsker waves his perfumed kerchief elegantly under his nose and sighs as he ponders the exquisite ironies of the lives of lesser beings. Makes mental note to discuss praxis of intertia with franky if he can find a little man to dial for him.
Trotsker vaguely recalls a passage in Theucydides reporting on the Parthian practice of self-decoration with ordure, poff poff. Must make witty allusion to Cultural Marxism. Poff poff.
When ever gabby comments I feel like it’s just for fun but when ever Chris Trotter does it it’s always a lot more serious. I just love the fact that Trotter is so under control he can sit around and just be home.
As a former angry (white) male myself – a bit of care, compassion and a sense of belonging switched me from a self-destructive path to a less destructive one.
JP, Yes Jacinda has shown how powerful love is. We actually know that, putting it into practice is when the power starts. If you don;t know where to start try gentle touch of hands or a hug. regardless of race or gender we all need that.
VTO you are better than that comment.
Yes VTO, I got that, but it is a recognised syndrome, and studies have shown all warm blooded mammals need touch and cuddles to thrive.
I felt your unanswerable question was not your usual thoughtful reply, and made fun of a serious question. Why did you do that?
Ok, thanks. I also felt rata’s question was unanswerable given its inherent assumption (loaded) that there was such a thing (still seen no evidence), and the reason for the respectless reply in kind was that respectless post in the first instance..
but your point is noted and perhaps a reply in kind isn’t always the best manner of response.. despite the bare knuckled nature of rata’s post
anyway, taking your word that there is such a thing..
.. rata’s question might be better approached by asking “what causes angry male syndrome?” rather than “what’s the solution?”
it aint possible to repair if the fault is unknown
one final matter – in the long past I had the fortune to work next to and under one of NZ’s most successful people. One thing I noticed was that it was never about finding the right answer to something, as an answer can nearly always be found… it was always about finding the right question
Thank you VTO, Yes, perhaps I over simplified it. I thought his was a cry of “how do we deal with this?” because for years I worked with students of an age where one kind caring person could alter the course of a life. I do believe it is breaking down barriers and building pathways, and sharing gifts.
Asking the right question indicates reflection on a topic.
“Why do we have terrorists?” “Why do we have deprived people.?”
Sadly same answer.
Below I replied to Pscho M. about another reason for problems, the
acceptance of difference.
“That would require it to exist in the first place”
A logical question, dispassionately expressed.
“Stopped beating your wife yet?”
The standard, poignant response to loaded questions.
Vto sounds not at all angry to me.
So angry men are with us forever and they can’t change or improve becauseeeee they have seen older angry men not taking responsibility for their anger and blaming others especially women and men who aren’t angry at that time. Bit of a problem eh.
The differences between men and women are due to sexual reproduction and the evolutionary effects of that on behaviour. So, we can educate and encourage and admonish people as much as we like, there are still going to be significant differences between men and women, not least of which is there’s a shitload more testosterone in men. The question asked was “Is there any solution to angry male syndrome?”, not “Are there ways of mitigating angry male syndrome?”.
It doesn’t work like that, it’s just a more-likely-to/less-likely-to thing.
Evolutionary behaviour operates at the population level, in a similar way to physical characteristics. For example, on average men are taller than women, but there’s no guarantee I’m going to be taller than any individual woman I meet. I may even be shorter than most women.
In the same way, men are influenced by testosterone a lot more than women are, but that doesn’t guarantee I’ll be more aggressive than any woman I meet.
It’s at the top ends of these bell curves where you get the biggest differences between the sexes. The tallest men are going to be way taller than the overwhelming majority of people regardless of sex, and the angriest, most aggressive men are going to be way more angry and aggressive than the overwhelming majority of people regardless of sex. The angriest, most aggressive women just won’t be in the same league.
Psycho, aren’t you mixing up anger and aggression? I often see people do this – conflate aggression with violence e.g. think rugby is violent, when it is simply aggressive… or aggression with anger… or discipline with violence…
I see people mix these things up all the time, leading to unfortunate outcomes in their minds I think
You will see through all of that of course as you are clearly smart. 2c.
Sorry, yes, I shouldn’t just mix the words anger and aggression in these comments as though they were interchangeable. Both are affected by testosterone and evolutionary behaviour, but they’re different things.
Your opinion is worthless outside your own head. If you think accepting that evolution influences behaviour in humans as well as other animals is just a way of abdicating responsibility, make an argument for it.
Of the 154 mass shootings recorded in the U.S. in 2018 through 28 June…
…”two-thirds of the cases in which a suspect was identified involved black men, and when the definition of a mass shooting was slightly expanded, the list of incidents included five in which investigators were in no doubt that a woman was responsible. ”
To put that in context – mass shootings was defined as “four or more people (not including the attacker) are shot in a single incident” (i.e. shot not killed).
Typically, we think of mass shootings as person going to a place which has a high density of people and killing indiscriminately. From the same sources “When we consulted the Mother Jones database, a source that strips away non-fatal, non-public, and gang-related mass shootings, we are left with only six incidents between 1 January and 28 June 2018. In five of those, the suspect was a white man, and in the remaining case the suspect was an Asian-American man. ”
Anger can be a useful emotion – the problems arise when it dominates or gets out of balance with other emotions, or is irrationally directed at the wrong targets.
Personally, I think we have a growing plague of alienation – economic life is a frantic, individuated and often losing scramble for a sort of survival, that even when achieved, is itself meaningless and lacks authenticity.
These circumstances will produce nasty symptoms, especially at the margins.
Give men meaningful productive things to do with their lives. Men who feel like they’re useless and have no control in a chaotic world are dangerous. We’re dumb apes like that.
You think shit’s bad now, just wait until automation and machine learning wipe out half the jobs in the world.
Ironically Jordan Peterson’s book “12 Rules for Life” is a direct attempt to deal with this problem, but I hear he’s thoughtcrime now.
I was so very impressed with the caring, warm, sensitive ‘inclusive’ call by the gentle character of Efeso Collins today on the TV one morning panel.
Efeso is exactly the type of leader we desperately need to heal us all in today’s divided secular bitter broken society.
Sadly the presentation by the much more ‘abrasive character of Mary Lambie was sadly an injury to our feelings of hope that this tragedy will bring us together in the wonderful manner that Efeso wants “in a totally inclusive warm caring manner as we are desperately hoping all our community issues may also be resolved.
It is a must watch to see the special tenderness expressed by this extraordinary man Efeso Collins that should be a senior MP in this current Labour government who has expressed the same will to add Labour as a, Quote; “gentle, kind, caring, inclusive government”.
This was a special moment that came from the TV one morning report after 8 am during the discussion panel on the Christchurch memorial happening today one week after the killings.
For anyone wanting a uplifting and inspiring story here is a brief history of the radical International Longshore and Warehouse Union in the San Francisco Bay Area, it is quite humbling to be reminded of the power that united workers can do for good, not only for themselves collectively but for the whole community, and ultimately the country…
“Dockworkers the world over have a long tradition of both power and militancy, able to block the flow of cargo and jam up the workings of capitalism. The International Longshore and Warehouse Union in the San Francisco Bay Area has been one of the most radical of American unions. Historian Peter Cole discusses the fascinating story of the ILWU and how an originally white workforce committed itself to racial equality and integration — and how the later majority black workforce became the radical backbone of the anti-apartheid and international solidarity movements in the Bay Area”
When I was in US a few years ago this port was one of the lowest productive ports in the Us re containers processed per hour, likewise the general view is that San Francisco has gone to the dogs after many years of left rule, so news not all good
Its not just an issue of “Left Rule’. The Union don’t own the Port , in the 50’s the State took ownership…. “State ownership put the Port of San Francisco in a position quite different from any other California port. Most importantly, the budgeting system imposed by state ownership effectively hindered facilities upkeep.”, not to mention “jurisdictional morass” and a plethora of geographical and modernisation issues.
Well well well…..Hoots that master of spin over at the fish wrap this morning in a cunning piece of right wing propaganda draws comparison between Jacinda Ardern’s response to the terrorist attack in Christchurch to the “empathy” and “steely” resolve” of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher after similar events back in the 80’s.
Aligning Jacinda Ardern alongside those two wreckers is a gross insult.
He then implores that we should be “boldly making the case for free and open markets and globalisation” and that we should “no longer reject the term neo-liberal, so often used as abuse, but reclaim it…..”
“This is Offensive to all True Christians in Aotearoa … Our National Identity is at stake,” he posted on Twitter.
“PM Jacinda Ardern has abused her Prime Ministerial decree in allowing ‘Allah as the only true God to be sounded in Muslim prayer across the airwaves in our nation tomorrow.”
He’s not a “Bishop” of course. It’s what he calls himself. He may kid himself he’s working for “the Lord” but he’s really just a self-serving p***k who is milking his flock for all they’re worth.
I’m not a religious person but that does not stop me admiring the tremendous amount of good work carried out by people from different religous backgrounds and… calling out the fakes. Tamaki is a fake.
Those of us who are secular, regard religions as important cultural artefacts. So a statement asserting that Allah is the true God, we take as an expression of belief that has no objective correlation with anything outside the speaker’s mind.
From our perspective, there is nothing there that can be disagreed with – because the statement has nothing to say about the external world.
Unlike us, Tamaki is a literalist believer – an odd throwback for sure, but simply a very different worldview.
You don’t have to be a Christian to be offended by an officially-sanctioned, nationally-broadcast Muslim declaration of faith. Ardern is going way too far with this. NZ is a secular country and the overwhelming majority would reject the claim being broadcast at them.
Very different, in fact. The NZ government is about to broadcast to the nation the declaration “There is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is is his prophet.” In this instance, the NZ government can fuck right off.
Sad and belligerent. No one asked you to alter your life, just to acknowledge their loss. Was that too much for you? Do you think Maori should be spoken over the air? Other languages? Other beliefs? Because why?????
NZ’s a secular country, so the government has no business broadcasting declarations about true gods and prophets. That has nothing to do with acknowledging Muslims’ loss last Friday, nor with Māori spoken on air, nor with whatever other irrelevant things people would like it to be about.
Maybe you aren’t familiar with Islam. This “prayer” consists of the phrases “Allah is great. There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet.” Which makes your analogy with the national anthem a false analogy. A better analogy would be the government broadcasting the Nicene Creed to the country.
It’s the same fucking god as Christianity. Same heritage. The Christian stuff implies that there is only one god as Jesus he introduced monotheism to the middle east. Unless in fact there is a separate “god of nations”. Might need to check that with the UN.
Islam holds that Muhammad is the last of many prophets including Jesus. He is just the most up-to-date version.
It’s the same fucking god as Christianity. Same heritage. The Christian stuff implies that there is only one god as Jesus…
Hence my comment that an appropriate analogy would be the government broadcasting the Nicene Creed nationwide. Did you actually read it, or are you just spouting off at a straw man?
I reckon, just this once, I figure I’ll let it go. And give less of a shit about it than I ever did about parliament opening with a prayer, or references to God in the national anthem. Which was FA anyway, tbh.
Because maybe a little extra effort in helping a particular section of our community feel included rather than othered is particularly important at the moment.
I’m pretty confident that the people who decided to broadcast this declaration nation-wide don’t actually believe that there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet.
For anybody who believes in one god the statement is true. For the rest of us it is no more than we regularly tolerate. Actually having said that it is less. Christians claim that their prophet IS god or a third there of.
Feel free not to give a shit whether the NZ government respects secularism and the separation of church and state if you like, it’s a free country. But there’s no obligation on me to share your lack of interest.
Sorry, I didn’t quite get why you think it’s a lie.
God wouldn’t be misled if it exists. It was clearly billed as a gesture of empathy after what happened. I don’t think that anyone other than you and Brian Tamaki thinks it means anything more than that.
Solkta: you seem very angry about something. Have you tried thinking about what it is you’re angry about, so you can deal with it rather than just lashing out in your comments?
My writing must really be going downhill, the way people keep asking me to re-state things.
The NZ government broadcast nationwide a declaration that Islam is the one true religion (something that is, or should be, offensive to secularists, but let’s leave that aside for a moment).
There are two possible scenarios:
1. The government broadcast this declaration knowing it to be untrue, ie it lied. It’s also effectively a lie in that it may encourage Muslims to believe NZ in general will be less secular and less hostile to religious fuckwittery as a result of this attack, which it won’t.
2. Or, the government didn’t know it was broadcasting a declaration that Islam is the one true religion, and just sees the adhan as a bunch of wailing noises Muslims make when it’s prayer time. That would make it an ignorance-based token gesture, which means it effectively lied when claiming the broadcast shows inclusiveness.
Option 3 is that the message being broadcast was more than the literal interpretation of its words, and that everyone bloody knows this, that nobody intended to mislead or was genuinely misled, but that some folks who want to get pissed off will pretend they thought it was an indication parliament and the government had all converted to Islam just so they can make it all about them rather than about the community that was targetted.
There was no lie. It was the most honest gesture our government has made in years.
Sure. Their hearts are in the right place, and for the most part their efforts to make it clear our Muslim population are as welcome here as anyone else have been great. However, this particular instance of it was something a secular state should not do, regardless of the circumstances.
McFlock: yes, you made your thoughts on this clear already, hence my comment that there’s nothing so petty and irrelevant to the pragmatist as a point of principle. But to me, it’s not petty and irrelevant.
solkta: yes, the long and hard-fought battle to make the liberal democracies of the West secular states has left a few historical anomalies like NZ’s national anthem. That isn’t an argument for introducing new anomalies like official declarations of the truth of a particular religion, it’s an argument for continuing to push for the secularisation of our democracy.
Also: you may find it useful to review the logical fallacy entertainingly known as whataboutery.
@PM, something a secular state should not do, regardless of the circumstances.
I kinda hope we’re sufficiently secure and comfortable in our status as a secular state that we can accommodate one-off gestures in exceptional circumstances like we’ve just had.
Sure there’s a big treacherous grey area figuring what does and doesn’t qualify, but to my worldview this time it ain’t even close to the grey. Even though my overall view of Islam is pretty close to yours. Personally, I’m more offended by the remaining vestiges of what used to be effectively state religion than this one-off gesture.
I think it’s an important gesture that NZ is not a “Christian nation”. But that nor is it a nation where religion is forbidden. It’s a nation where everybody can live alongside each other without shitting a brick.
And I think that not only is your interpretation of that simple gesture in a time of great need for such a gesture paranoid, it actually undermines that message of tolerance.
If you’re not religious, does it really matter? I’m not religious, so they may as well be praying to Gandalf the Grey or Rumpelstiltskin for all the difference it makes to me. If it makes people feel better, and brings a little harmony and well-being to a grieving community, then fill your boots, people. There are more important things to get indignant about.
No worse than not having adverts on TV on Xmas day or the shops being closed on Christian holidays.
I’m not a believer in any god and I’m not offended by this one off show of solidarity.
Nobody is asking you say it. With the national anthem on the other hand everyone is expected to stand and sing the shit. There is no way that i am going to say that i am at any god’s feet. I do stand though as there seems little point in being disrespectful. Really can’t see how just broadcasting a prayer affects you.
Yet most of us don’t believe in any god, so whether someone believes their god is the one true god is just meaningless words really. For 2 minutes NZ became a Muslim country, and then it didn’t again. BFD. I wonder what the next outrage will be…
…whether someone believes their god is the one true god is just meaningless words really.
I agree. Muslims are welcome to believe ridiculous things, just like Christians or any other religious people. However, the government has no business declaring any particular religion to be true, even if the declaration is just virtue-signalling in the aftermath of a tragedy.
And so are the Right – ‘personal responsibility’ never actually applies to their self-serving tax evading assholes – it’s just a stick to beat the victims of their cruel and stupid economic policies.
You and I do share a common background in that we both have considerably more exposure to Islam in it’s native lands, than almost everyone else here. I recall conversations we’ve had on this in the past.
So I do understand your reservations; but a precise calibration of these things to make everyone happy is not possible. Adern is our leader on this and I’m happy to firmly set aside my opinions for the much higher purpose of our national unity.
I am rather sympathetic with PM in this way: when it comes to that all-important inclusivity, atheists are actually excluded. It seems that we are all praying to God in the news. I am feeling sympathy, but I refuse to pray to a God I don’t believe in. It does leave me a bit uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I gather that Islam is not accepting of declarations of Atheism, or am I wrong in that?
What happened today, came from a place of love and compassion, and that small gesture may help change the world.
In Vino.. this bit.. “I am feeling sympathy, but I refuse to pray to a God I don’t believe in. It does leave me a bit uncomfortable.”
It was a call to prayer, one could pray to any imaginary friend of their choosing, or simply not pray at all. Least that’s how I saw it.
And this bit…“On the other hand, I gather that Islam is not accepting of declarations of Atheism, or am I wrong in that?” Just because some do it one way doesn’t mean we need to too.
It was a call to prayer, one could pray to any imaginary friend of their choosing, or simply not pray at all.
You could do what you like, sure. However, those of us who know that the adhan consists of a declaration that the only god is Allah and that Muhammad is the only legitimate prophet take a less sanguine view of its endorsement by our government. Ignorance may be bliss, but it remains ignorance.
The separation of church and state need not be absolute. For the duration of a funeral, the religious preferences of the deceased and their family deserve some consideration. I’m led to believe that a number of Maori observances our political class adhere to are religious also.
Nor was it so very long ago that MPs had a parliamentary prayer, the function of which, like the Roman Auriga, was to remind MPs of their fallibility and ward them from hubris. Trevor Mallard, having attained (in his own mind) infallibility, felt he could dispense with the reminder. No doubt Fate has something classically Greek lined up for him, probably involving moas.
PM, but dosen’t every religion have a clause that their god is the only god and if you believe in any other god then hell fire and brimstone and all that.
I do however agree with S.M… this bit “For the duration of a funeral, the religious preferences of the deceased and their family deserve some consideration”
The timeline of reaction… will be interesting to find out how the rest of the world reacts re today, they be sleeping atm.
And PM you are right about ignorance, but there is also room for growth re attitudes as well as growth re experience/knowledge. And I understand that you are well versed on said subject so value your opinions.
OMG… just looked out the open door and there is this MASSIVE gold moon, beautifully round coming out of the ocean. Wow! That’s a treat. Nitey nite 🙂 hope you can see the moon, it’s epic tonite.
Cinny, I too agree with SM in this case, but I am left with the chill dread that no atheists will ever get such consideration; that other groups may also suffer massacre, and always the call will be to prayer.
I think PM is right in saying that the state must remain secular.
After this is settled maybe we could have a discussion about secularism – except it won’t seem urgent then, will it?
dosen’t every religion have a clause that their god is the only god
Actually Judaism doesn’t as the old testament is not monotheistic. Moses said to to the Egyptian pharaoh that his people worshiped Yahweh and that Yahweh was more powerful than the Egyptian gods and that he would send “flies and frogs upon thee”. It was after that when wandering through the desert that Yahweh decided to choose the Hebrew people as “his people”.
Monotheism was still radical thought when Jesus came along. That was a big part of why he upset the apple cart so. Hitherto the Romans had taken a live and let live approach to religion. The Romans had their gods and the Hebrews their god. Jesus came along and said that there was only one god and it was his, a very seemingly arrogant thing for the times.
solkta – you conveniently leave out Moses getting the tablets with ten commandments and the very first of those commandments. Sorry, but most of us see the Jews as being monotheistic from that point on. Monotheism was not a radical thought to Jews. Christ himself was a Jew, and spoke of that same God. The rest of the people in the old testament may well have been polytheists, just as the Romans were.
Really interesting how sometimes things just flow, have just been checking out the morning papers, it must be time for change.
This comment of yours above…. “I am left with the chill dread that no atheists will ever get such consideration;”
With that in mind….turns out our PM is agnostic… from stuff this morning…
” Reporters do not usually ask if prime ministers feel sad. Nor do they ask if they are religious. But this has not been a typical week.
“I consider myself to be agnostic,” Ardern replied, “but given I was raised in a religious household, I like to think I’m very open-minded to everyone’s choices and faiths and their ways of life.”
And yes please to a discussion about secularism. At present am really hopefully for global change away from religious competitiveness. I really believe the way Jacinda has responded and Winston as well (from the report’s I’ve seen so far coming out of Turkey), that change is happening.
Incredibly interesting how it’s all unfolding on the world stage. A catalyst for the evolution of humanity, now that would be a good buzz, just like the moon last night, that was beautiful.
Well we had decades of Sunday religious service broadcasts and, even more abominably, pommie footie results at tedious length for the Faithful. No doubt it comforted some.
Ah yes, Praise Be, with that jolly, ruddy-faced chap and his vast collection of cardigans. I remember saying to my mum one morning, “Mum? Why is this boring crap on telly every Sunday?” I think I got a slap for that one.
I remember the ‘wireless’ on a Sunday morning at 9am. The church service of the day began and the wireless went into ‘off’ mode. As a child I also remember the death of King George 6th. They played funeral music all day for days on end. It was so gloomy and doomy I remember being frightened.
roman catholic here, and i am not offended at all.
i don’t think any christian who practices his/her religion would be offended by a call to prayer to commemorate the slaughter of the innocents last week.
And the call today was not to change anything here but to honor the death.
When I travelled the Middle East as a young fella I found the dawn call to prayer very comforting and uplifting Albeit had know idea what they were saying but made for good reflection anyway
I dunno.I listen to sean nòs Irish singing in the Gaelic. Beautiful. Don’t understand any more than 10 words. But the melody, the tone, the quality of the voice.
I once attended a Sufi service in Turkey, spinning Dervishes, the works. Brilliant. Didn’t understand a word. Very spiritual, very musical.
Later I went to a theatre performance of “The Cripple of Inishmaan” in Istanbul. Brilliant. Didn’t understand a word of the Turkish, but I knew the play as I played a role in it.
For me, as a musician, the Moslem call to music is beautiful in its minor, modal way.
So I believe I understand BM’s point of view here.
German firm stores 3.5 million toilet rolls in UK to avoid customs delays, builds six weeks supplies of cardboard core imported from Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, and charters ships to take supplies from Naples to Swansea .. but what if they run out ?
Businesses from car manufacturing to supermarkets to pharmaceutical firms have been doing the same with the prospect of lengthy delays and increasing cost of materials.
Well, you eat the cheese, that blocks you up pretty good and just before you get back to the land of toilets you eat the milk powder. That gets things flowing again.
Cataractacus
You have got onto a good story there. One of the zillion things that the
Conservatives haven’t thought of.
Their recent prowess indicates that they are too old and out of touch with the And keeping the British parliamentary system in its present condition ignores the obvious needed re-organisation. I suggest MMP – we got it from the Germans and it is useful, they should learn from the Germans who have dominated productive enterprise in Europe since World War 2, Brits seem to have settled for financing, being the bankers who watch the screen and don’t see Trouble creeping up behind.
Brexit decision postponed temporarily – bring it on for the End of May.
Back in the day having spares lying around made businesses resilient to glitches in supply chains and markets. But then the accountants came and taught them to monitor stock and sales in order to hold less stock thus more ‘free capital’.
This only works when everything’s working.
While hoarding isn’t helpful, these companies are thinking ahead.
Brexit is analogous to being at the pub at 2am in the morning and your mate says let’s go to this really good bar down the road You leave the bar but the bar down the road is empty, the doormen won’t let you back in the bar you left , so your left eating a stale kebab on the street
Kat re hoots…..didn’t click on the link as don’t want to waste 5minutes of my life…..
I think in the last week it has been blantantly obvious how pro national and anti labour our msm commentators are……..I know for many this is stating the bleeding obvious, but it has been so amplified in the last week.
I have read only one positive account of ardern handling of this tragedy and that was from Clare Trevit. John Armstrong had a positive headline, but his first paragraph was a hysterical rant about how gun laws must change and Ardern can’t slip up on this.
Ffs even the Turkish PM has praised Ardern….where’s Barry, Audrey mike etc……..
Ankerrawsharkal, the fish wrap aka the herald fronts as national media and cannot, must not, be allowed to get away with this type of spin. It is the very inciting, influencing propaganda shyte that everyone has been rallying against, just a bit more polished.
I noted the red haired’ Jessica Mutch on TV1 could only manage ‘she’s done quite well’ when asked what she thought of Ardern’s response to the massacre. Dead pan face while she said it gave away her discomfort at having to acknowledge as much.
The terrible massacres of last Friday brought out the nutters…
At the time there were the two people arrested at Papanui – dressed in camo, armed and ready to ‘help’ the police.
Day after, in our nearby ‘burb, four police cars screamed past to pick up another person, also dressed in camo walking down the street carrying a samurai sword.
There was another elsewhere in NZ (can’t locate just now).
Are those the tip of the iceberg? I would guess so. Is perhaps why most all of Christchurch retreated into their homes Friday and stayed put through Saturday and only slowly emerged after that… the streets were not considered safe… and we can now see why …. the camo’ed nutters came out with their weapons..
.. then yesterday in an outskirts part of the city I found myself down a little-used dead-end road, which at the end had a property with large overgrown trees and dilapidated buildings, with several signs saying “marine exercise zone” type things, and with gun imagery the same as that used by the supremacists and survivalists … I retreated quietly and quickly.
What a place. Civilization seems like a thin veneer at times…
Occasionally the well-constructed media facade slips and middle-class people get to see reality as others do. Don’t worry .. there will soon be a sporting event, celebrity sex scandal, or some other excess which trumps it all. Orwell was right on many levels ..
I have not really thought of criminal/ terrorist actions within New Zealand as being equivalent to war, although there are obvious similarities between the job police do in peacetime and soldiers do in war. Would it not be the police rather than the victims that should march on ANZAC day? I was also under the impression that New Zealanders have joined with Turkish people in celebrating ANZAC day, and that soldiers from Japan and Germany have joined our forces in commemoration of sacrifices made in times of war. Did concentration camp survivors ever join in such commemorative ceremonies? Perhaps I don’t understand the points you are making, Ad and cleangreen.
I did serve briefly in a territorial force, but have never belonged to regular forces or the RSA – are they in charge of the national commemorative ceremonies? I see democracy as including civilians – is that wrong?
On the 24th april 1915 was the day of red sunday The internment of the Armenian intellectuals and the start of the Armenian pogrom.
Do you think we should have a Holocaust memorial on the wellington south coast beside the Ataturk memorial?
Should we have listened to Arthur Conan Doyle and partitioned Germany in 1919 as he suggested to the Anzac club?
Speaking of the future, Sir Conan Doyle said that thoughtful people could not look at the position without anxiety. The revengeful, brooding German nation, numbering not less than 70 or 80 millions, would be opposite the dwindling French nation, numbering with Alsace-Lorraine not more than 45 millions. If we did not want our children or grand-children to have to do this job again, we ought, now that we had the Germans down, to pull their teeth and cut their claws. (Cheers.) Germany’s military position had been actually. strengthened. In place of great military neighbours like the Russia and Austria which existed before the war, Germany would now have on the east and the south a lot of little States, any of which could be neutralized by a German corps or two. The proposal that the whole west bank of the Rhine should he placed under the administration of France he did not think feasible. It would be going against everything we had fought for in this war, if we put 10,000,000 Germans under the French. It was clean against President Wilson’s 14 points, and once they had been broken to such an extent the whole thing would go by the board. What he thought could easily be done — and he only threw it out as a suggestion — was that territory to the West of the Rhine should be made a separate German country. If the Germans liked to federate, well and good ; but the West of the Rhine should be a unit, when certain laws should not be broken except on pain of war. One law was that out of the population on that side of the Rhine the Germans should get no conscripts.
“Unique among World War I campaigns, the fighting at Gallipoli brought together a modern amphibious assault and multi-national combined operations. It took place on a landscape littered with classical and romantic sites – just across the Dardanelles from the ruins of Homer’s Troy. The campaign became, perhaps, the greatest ‘what if’ of the war. The concept behind it was grand strategy of the highest order, had it been successful it might have led to conditions ending the war two years early on Allied terms. This could have avoided the bloodletting of 1916-18, saved Tsarist Russia from revolution and side stepped the disastrous Treaty of Versailles – in effect, altering the course of the entire 20th century.
This study is the first to focus on operational and campaign-level decisions and actions, which drove the conduct of the campaign. It departs from emotive first-hand accounts and offers a broader perspective of the large scale military planning and maneuvering involved in this monstrous struggle on the shores of European Turkey.”
Gabby
If you are not a NZr then you will be interested to know that April 25 each year is called Anzac Day when we honour our killed and indeed all war personnel and the wars we have long been involved in. We usually meet at outdoor commemorative places with a ritual service, well attended. The feature has always been to dwell on WW1 but the other wars are commemorated at the same time.
Hilarious to see Whale Oil advising members to hide their past comments because apparently there’s some sort of media witch hunt on hate speech. Here’s an example of the sort of stuff they are no longer proud of trumpeting:
“FreemanNZ Cedric • 7 months ago
It is difficult, isn’t it, to be polite about people who you can see are being hoodwinked into supporting a cause like ‘multiculturalism’ when in fact they are just an unwitting rent-a-crowd organised remotely via easily-manipulated pathetic social justice warriors by outfits like the Federation of Islamic Associations of NZ to suppress knowledge of what Islam has in store for us kaffirs.
I really believe it should be legal to preemptively do to Muslims what they pray five times a day they will do to those of us who refuse to convert to their way.”
Lovely stuff, in the hallowed name of free speech. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however hateful. But at least have the guts to put your name to your words.
Your comment sent me off to Whale Oil to see how they have been coping with the past week. Some retard called “Wibble’ summed up their take on events:
I feel this too. Jacinda is being praised by her sycophantic media as being a heroine for the country, while she has oppressed and distanced the majority of Kiwis, who now live in fear. In just 1.5 years of this coalition government, sensible thinking people now live in fear. Think about that. What is going to happen in the next 1.5 years?
I see…. Jacinda Ardern is the perpetrator – including the massacre?
Wot about the gunman in police custody then? Will they set him free cos he’s not done nuffink wrong. It was Jacinda.
Seriously though, her protection is now paramount. She will be target No.1 for a long time to come. It’s a big worry.
I tried having a twitter discussion with Juana the other day. Totally convinced that her hubby’s site hasn’t contributed to the global hate that fuelled the terrorist. Also unable to see the connection between hate speech and hate acts. Sad person.
Well I never saw what Pucky saw in her but I must say… I think shes finally on the right side of history ( puke : what a cliche’ – never remind me again I typed that in future… thank you . ) .
Mind you , the issue of firearms and the Police was forced on us now from outside reasons beyond our control. Such an ugly sordid incident. Such a sullying thing for our nation.
WK
Please don’t just talk about the incident being a sullying thing for our nation without mentioning the people involved in the tragedy. And that it has been heart-breaking for those left grieving for their dead and injured. I think they should be referred to in a general summary of the sad event and its effects.
I was injured in Canada in 1992 when working in an unventilated 12 story office building in downtown Toronto for six months and suffered eventually from chronic chemical poisoning that almost cost me my life.
Prior to walking into that building i was a very health fit kiwi with a impeccable medical health record shown by the Bell Canada employment records after application medical testing before being hired onto the job.
I was an active Kiwi in the Toronto “Tranzac” Kapahaka group representing NZ.
After toxic chemical poisoning I lost 30% of my memory, muscle power and mobility, and was actually dying with Toxic Encephalopathy and chemical overload.
I have defied the sentence of death so far and now live away from chemicals and after years of “detoxifying my brain and body can attest to being able to life longer, so no-one need to call it quits early in life.
I have lost my former ‘full’ life but still have a life today.
There is growing awareness that chronic intoxications by industrial, agricultural, iatrogenic, and environmental pollution may have teratogenic or oncogenic influence or may cause neurologic or psychiatric syndromes.
Toxic encephalopathy (TE) is the result of the interaction of a chemical compound with the brain. Disturbance of normal brain function is caused by:
1. depletion of oxidative energy;
2. nutritional deprivation affecting nerves and
neurons;
3. exposure to foreign material which may be
a. exogenous in origin,
b. generated within the central nervous
system, or
c. generated within the body;
4. derangement of neurotransmission;
5. altered ion balance;
6. antigenic activity.
The list of examples of toxic encephalopathy is long and reflects the real difficulty in recognizing that slow deterioration of neurologic functions indicates poisoning by a toxin.
The sad part was I was not covered by chelation in Canada or NZ so I still pay today for it but it is great also for unblocking arteries also for those who’ve high blood pressure or heavy arterial plague as it works like a drain cleaner too.
Glad your dad lived longer and we need the NZ Medical services to use these less invasive and less costly treatments.
The Germans are well known for their cleverness to treat their people and chelation was invented by them in 1946 after the armament workers in Germany also fell sick after ‘heavy metal poisoning’, so our health folks here in NZ can’t say it doesn’t work can they?
Hell, what a terrible thing to happen! You wrote unventilated, so do you mean the poison entered through your lungs? If so, were you the only one there affected like this? Science can’t explain why some folks prove susceptible to shit when others in identical circumstances are unaffected, eh? Was the actual chemical that caused it identified?
Just got back from Kilbirnie Mosque. Very heartening to see the large numbers of people who turned out. I’m not good on estimating numbers, but certainly high 100s, if not more. I’d say more, maybe there’ll be something in the media later. It was a bit disappointing that those of us not near the Mosque were unable to hear the call to prayer, I thought perhaps it might be said over a loudspeaker today, but in the scheme of things it’s not important. It’s that we were there.
America is prove? There stands a need for some one to step into the void and repair trust and empathy. If you can strip away the jargon and see what’s going on underneath all the chaos and self deception, the concepts become really easy to understand. And once concepts become easy to understand then normal people can understand these really complex economic, forign affairs and financial shenanigans going on in Merica.
I remember the ‘wireless’ on a Sunday morning at 9am. The church service of the day began and the wireless went into ‘off’ mode. As a small child I also remember the death of King George 6th. They played funeral music all day for days on end. It was so gloomy and doomy I remember being frightened.
Agree @ Skunk ………… so what would you prescribe other than a cyanide tablet?
I reckon maybe 50 migs of largactil with breakfast plus nightly oestrogen injections.
Waddya reckon? after a few weeks …… the patient will look like Donald Trump with tits and a shrivelled up dick. That should do it eh?
This is us Maori have been masacared in our hundreds Men Wahine tamariki to we are treaded like dirt and the power that be steer into te matariki and DENIE THIS REALITY.
Māori leaders critique ‘this is not us’ sentiment
Links below ka kite ano
Former Gloriavale man family dies in crash leaving he had all his other members divert the course of justice the police did not get to see him till the next day he was drink driving and killed his family in a truck crashed into a tree he got off this CULT Has more power than the whole of the Maori RACE .They have there christian members RUNNING THE POLICE FORCE IN New Zealand REDNECKS Christians looking at Maori Cultures as spitting at US that is quite plan for Eco Maori to SEE.
I have been SITTING on this Story for a few years TIME IS NOW TO let you know whats is happening in New Zealand.
A great Maori Man gets conned into doing wrong what does the UNJUSTICE SYSTEM do to this great MAORI MAN they lock him up and he dies in JAIL WTF an white man kills his family he a Gloriavale man he gets off scott FREE linls below ka kite ano
Māori leader, academic and businessman Sir Ngātata Love has died.
Love, 81, died peacefully at his Korokoro home on Wednesday last week, surrounded by loving whānau.
Born in Lower Hutt, Love was a powerful advocate for Māori throughout the lower North Island, working with various groups on Waitangi Tribunal claims and land issues He was a professor in business studies, managed the Wellington Tenths Trust and the Palmerston North Māori Reserve Land Trust, and served terms as chief executive of Te Puni Kokiri and the Ministry of Māori Development. P.S The unjustice system broke his Mana Wairua Eco Maori will never let them do that to me thanks to my tipunas
I a Anglican church member my Mama took me to church every Sunday when she was alive.
The Anglican Church works with Maori Culture unlike some that just try and extinguish Maori culture Mauri Mana Wairua
Eco Maori does not champion violence I say Peter Toshs song means the good leftys from around te Papatuanuku must stand up and take CONTROL OF OUR FUTURES.
Kia ora Newshub Ka pai to the 3 tamariki who organisationed a march for LOVE that’s how we should treat EVERYONE like how you would your kuia grandmother.
Good on Winston to go to Istanbul to smove the WAI with their tangata.
‘I” The big tech companies need to do there best to keep the haters in check so they can not use there platforms to generate MORE HATE.
Its getting hot in there USA that is.
It might be calm in your neck of the woods boy but the sandflys are attaking my WHANAU anyway they can dream up get a tissue. Ka kite ano P.S
Kia ora Te ao Maori News I have commented on the Aroha I thank them. You want the truth about gangs the sandflys nerture them they breed gangs to put down te tangata whenua O Atoearoa Mana and Wairua into the dirt and you wankers are helping them some of the ones put on camera are getting there profiles cleaned so that the ASSETS NARKS can help the sandflys lock up more innercint Maori I know that for a FACT. The unjustified system made gang as a weapon against Maori. I say this but I will still treat te tangata with respect because they don’t get the big picture Eco Maori gets it Ka kite ano
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TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the government’s readiness to make urgent changes to “the resource management system” through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes don’t go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Asia Pacific Report The Pacific state of Hawai’i’s House of Representatives has joined the state’s Senate in calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza, becoming the first state to pass such a resolution, reports Hawaii News Now. In March, the Senate passed a ceasefire resolution with a 24–1 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Ferrie, A/Prof, UTS Chancellor’s Postdoctoral Research and ARC DECRA Fellow, University of Technology Sydney PsiQuantum The Australian government has announced a pledge of approximately A$940 million (US$617 million) to PsiQuantum, a quantum computing start-up company based in Silicon Valley. Half ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hunter Bennett, Lecturer in Exercise Science, University of South Australia Cameron Prins/Shutterstock If you spend a lot of time exploring fitness content online, you might have come across the concept of heart rate zones. Heart rate zone training has become more ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Eugene Doyle He is the most popular Palestinian leader alive today — and yet few people in the West even know his name. Absolutely no one in Gaza or the West Bank does not know him. That difference speaks volumes about who dominates the media narrative that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Will McCallum, PhD Candidate – School of Communication and Creative Arts, Deakin University Earlier this year, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton accused Prime Minister Anthony Albanese of not supporting Operation Sovereign Borders – the military-led border security operation that has “closed Australia’s borders ...
By Melyne Baroi in Port Moresby A Papua New Guinea MP, Peter Isoaimo, who had been ousted by the National Court in an alleged bribery case, has been reinstated by the Supreme Court on appeal. A three-member Supreme Court bench found that the National Court had erred in finding that ...
Publisher Chris Holdaway reflects on the unique project of collecting the work of the late, terrific poet Schaeffer Lemalu. One of the nice things you can do as a truly independent publisher is to make the books that writers want to make, whatever they happen to be. That’s how I’ve ...
Those profiled in the stamp series served on overseas deployments from 1995 onwards, and all have been awarded theNew Zealand Operational Service Medal. ...
Last night’s dismal poll result for the coalition government shows the limits of trying to govern as an opposition, argues Joel MacManus. There’s a quote from the American political activist Barbara Deming: “Vengeance is not the point; change is. But the trouble is that in most people’s minds, the thought ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shireen Morris, Associate Professor and Director of the Radical Centre Reform Lab at Macquarie University Law School, Macquarie University Leonid Andronov/Shutterstock Foreign interference in Australian democracy poses a growing risk to our national sovereignty. It refers to coercive, corrupt or ...
A defendant charged by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has pleaded guilty to four charges of obtaining by deception in relation to a mortgage fraud scheme. Sentencing has been scheduled for 14 August 2024. ...
What to say when pesky journalists ask gotcha questions like ‘can you name a single book you’ve ever read?’ and ‘did you read it, or did you just see the movie?’This week, Act Party arts spokesperson Todd Stephenson foolishly agreed to an interview with Newsroom’s Steve Braunias regarding his ...
Explainer - What will a ban on cellphones in schools achieve? Can students use them during lunch breaks? And what happens if you need to contact your child? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jodi Rowley, Curator, Amphibian & Reptile Conservation Biology, Australian Museum, UNSW Sydney Jodi Rowley, CC BY-NC-ND In winter 2021, Australia’s frogs started dropping dead. People began posting images of dead frogs on social media. Unable to travel to investigate the deaths ...
In the year ended March 2024, 0.4 percent of home transfers were to people who didn’t hold New Zealand citizenship or a resident visa, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wasay Majid, Research Assistant , University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau New Zealand’s accommodation supplement scheme is facing scrutiny, with Social Development Minister Louise Upston recently saying “there is merit in considering whether the current settings are fair and sustainable long-term”. The ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor The first prime ministerial candidate has been announced in Solomon Islands and it is not Manasseh Sogavare. The man of the hour is Jeremiah Manele, the MP for Hograno/Kia/Havulei constituency in Isabel Province, who served as minister of foreign affairs in the last government. ...
Protesting the removal of bins by leaving piles of your dog’s shit for others to deal with doesn’t make you a hero – it’s precious and entitled behaviour. You haven’t truly lived until you’ve stood on the shoreline of Auckland’s Cheltenham beach, desperately trying to scoop increasingly liquid dog shit ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon will be alert to the factors driving the dire polling, but won't be waving the white flag just yet, RNZ political editor Jo Moir writes. ...
Writer, teacher and academic Vincent O’Sullivan died on Sunday 28 April. Here we gather tributes from friends, colleagues, and students who remember his extraordinary contributions. I went down to the garage tonight. There was a bird shrieking out in the bush, in the dark, maybe a kākā. Miraculously, through the ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a burnt-out corporate escapee explains how she gets by ‘working as little as possible’. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Female Age: 31 Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: Contractor in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Schmidt, Professor of Chemistry, UNSW Sydney Albert Russ / Shutterstock The icebreaker of many a barbeque conversation is something like “what do you do for a crust?” “I teach chemistry at university,” is what we usually reply. Then silence. Our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Asher Flynn, Associate Professor of Criminology, Monash University Shutterstock Sexual harassment is often considered to be a person-to-person act, but new research shows Australians are also experiencing and perpetrating workplace harassment in large numbers through technology. Our latest study shows one ...
A petition signed by more than 16,500 people, demanding the government take stronger action to halt the genocide of Palestinians by the State of Israel, is being presented to the House of Representatives today by Hon Phil Twyford. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Burnett, Honorary Associate Professor, ANU College of Law, Australian National University jenmartin/Shutterstock April has been a bad month for the Australian environment. The Great Barrier Reef was hit, yet again, by intense coral bleaching. And Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek delayed ...
Winston Peters might not give a ‘rat’s derriere’ about last night’s poll, but it revealed the unusual absence of a honeymoon period and little payoff for the government’s action plan approach, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marco de Jong, Lecturer, Law School, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Details released by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet under the Official Information Act reveal New Zealand officials have been considering involvement in AUKUS from the outset. ...
The government's treatment of Māori raised eyebrows, with countries saying New Zealand needed to do more to reduce health, education and justice inequities. ...
The age of criminal responsibility was one of numerous human rights issues raised during Aotearoa New Zealand’s UPR. Other key themes were racism and discrimination, the disproportionate representation of Māori in prison, and to uphold the UN Declaration ...
In a sitdown interview ahead of his final day at Parliament this week, the former Green Party co-leader tells RNZ about his lowest point during 2017's rough election campaign. ...
Is the fringe radio station really in a financial crisis, or is it just running a hyped-up donation drive? Fringe internet radio station Reality Check Radio was launched by the anti-vaccine mandates group Voices for Freedom in March 2023. For the next year, it undertook probably the most aggressive promotional ...
Above the Fold: On Monday, the biggest Māori screen production company faced down the biggest funder of Māori content at the High Court. It was an incredibly tense moment – then, just as quickly, it resolved. Duncan Greive breaks down a strange day in the screen sector.Yesterday morning, Māori ...
Opinion: The debate over single gender versus co-educational schooling has long been controversial. I went to a co-ed school and was inspired by a remarkable woman who was my maths teacher, and because of her deep knowledge and passion for the subject, I knew that maths was definitely an option ...
He won everything and he earned a knighthood and he was a senior literary figure to the point that he was a living monument to himself until his death in the weekend at 86, but there was something about Vincent O’Sullivan that flew under the radar, that was independent and ...
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It’s a ride that’s lasted almost 30 years for mother and daughter BMX riders Nancy and Toni James, and the next stop is the World Championships in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Almost 27 years ago, Nancy and her husband Gerrard took their oldest child, Daniel, to the Waitākere BMX Club. ...
When it comes to talking about the Government’s controversial fast-track consenting process, political scientist Richard Shaw refers to the famous Chinese sci-fi novel Three-Body Problem, while RNZ’s In Depth journalist Farah Hancock talks about zombie projects. Shaw is referring to the three-party coalition Government and how the proposed legislation is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rick Sarre, Emeritus Professor of Law and Criminal Justice, University of South Australia The rate of women killed by their partners in Australia grew by 28% from 2021–22 to 2022–23, according to new statistics released today by the Australian Institute of Criminology ...
Ministry of Disabled People employees were promised a permanent role, but were told to start packing three weeks before their fixed term contract finished, says a former employee. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Blakers, Professor of Engineering, Australian National University Clean Energy Council / Neoen As Australia’s rapid renewable energy rollout continues, so too does debate over land use. Nationals Leader David Littleproud, for example, claimed regional areas had reached “saturation point” and ...
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Morena, here is a way to show respect today.
#HeadScarfforHarmony
https://www.newsweek.com/men-and-women-invited-wear-headscarf-solidarity-muslims-after-christchurch-1370828
Great piece here on the attempted US backed coup’ in Venezuela
On the Ground in Venezuela vs. the Media Spectacle
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/18/on-the-ground-in-venezuela-vs-the-media-spectacle/
So everything we read in MSM is USA propaganda and B/S why does that not surprise me ?
Because you’re aware the MSM is fatally conflicted?
Including our very own RNZ I would like to add.
Adrian yes 100% correct.
RNZ is now another compromised media after national in their last year helicoptered in several ex BBC right wing staffers.
We hear nothing but bullshit from them through the RNZ media now.
Nothing about ‘climate change’ or ‘serious problems in our transport systems
and the issues’ in NZ now.
So the global elite have taken control of RNZ also now.
I think RNZ has just finally completely succumbed to what Chomsky’ has termed ‘Manufacturing consent’ very sad for us all really.
Adrian
Thank you for that clip of the wonderful truth serum of Noam Chomsky vs conservative media types.
It speaks volumes of truth, bless Noam..
A little bit of self censoring is going on here, by Chomsky himself.
He says he knows some very fine journalists, but refuses to name them.
I wonder why?
Is it because if Chomsky told us their names we could actually check that they are the fine journalists he claims they are? If Chomsky named these fine jounalists surely he would be doing them a favour by giving them some well deserved publicity. If Chomsky named these journalists, we could actually check to see if among the names are the genocide deniers and apologists for Assad fascism, Chomsky has previously identified as fine journalists.
Faafoi appears out of his depth as national knew exactly how to leave it very hard to make it work for NZ ever again.
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/10/nyts-expose-on-the-lies-about-burning-humanitarian-trucks-in-venezuela-shows-how-us-govt-and-media-spread-fake-news/
Makes you think about most of the news,
About the terrible State of Venezuala.
If Maduro was really a totalitarian Dictator. How come Guido, and his mates, who actually were involved in violent coup attempts, are still alive?
Much worse situations, in real authoritarian right wing Dictatorships are ignored, by media.
Frank Macskasy: not happy.
“But really, what did people think was the purpose of Southern and Molyneux to visit Aotearoa New Zealand? To engage in rational debate with progressives over a cup of Earl Grey and gingernut? To do the Tourist Thing and take ‘selfies’ on the Fox Glacier?
What did we think their purpose was to visit Aotearoa New Zealand?
Let me answer that. They were not here to debate. They are past debate.
They were here to (a) encourage new recruits amongst the disaffected and (b) re-energise existing far-right and alt-right groups.
It took barely six months after I wrote my rebuttal to permitting the Polite Fascists to visit. They came, nevertheless. They made their public speeches. (There was no debate.) And they left, to continue their ‘mission’ to spread their poison somewhere else, to eager listeners with anger and hate in their minds.
So we had our free speech. Only, it wasn’t “free”. There was a cost attached.
The price for their free speech has been paid-in-full. By the gods, we paid dearly.”
https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2019/03/22/15-march-aotearoas-day-of-infamy/
We don’t allow foreigners to buy more than 50% of a New Zealand company so we allow any one to visit here, and we get to hear what they are saying about us. We do not let them tell us what to do or how to set or laws or how to look after our own people. People in New Zealand are allowed to walk around in the bush and say what ever they like. They’re not allowed to murder people. If we classify people who may say risky stuff as the threat then we will dilute what it means to be a real murderer / terrorist as it was when for decades the security aperartus falsely believed lefties was a threat diluting what it means to be a real murderer / terrorist,
So Robert Guyton you still have not connected the dots, that you were one of the key people who helped Southern and Molyneux get such a wide platform in your mad rush to ban them.
One day you might work out that the right never get censored, only more air time when tools on the left try and censor them.
But I’d say look closer to home, look to talk back radio and the corporate press. Or the frothing anger fueled rant by the former PM screeching “getting some guts”. All that racial hate was already here, already in the popular discourse, even dare I say it – mainstream.
And If you think we should get a free pass for our own racism and blame someone from outside – or the ‘other’. Then I’m seeing very little difference between you, Southern, and Molyneux.
Adam. Be still. The “mad rush to ban” Southern and Molyneux you attribute to me is nothing more than a figment of your imagination. If you can truly see “very little difference between” me and those two, your vision is seriously compromised, I would suggest. You did notice that I was quoting an article written by Frank Macskasy, yes?
So you did not want to ban Southern and Molyneux?
So your post was not a distraction from deep nz racism?
feel free to clarify.
My post, Adam, began:
“Frank Macskasy: not happy.”, and went on to quote him.
My only comment was, “Frank Macskasy: not happy.”
Where on earth did you draw your inferences from???
“Then I’m seeing very little difference between you, Southern, and Molyneux.”
So untrue and rude – open your eyes cos you’re spraying where spray isn’t needed. I know it’s tough but I’d suggest focus and being in the moment today to fully be there for our dead and injured and hurt. Kia kaha.
sheesh marty I know you can be angry “and rude”
but at least have some respect of context, before you do the whole “untrue” thing.
I did adam I really did I just wanted to support Robert because whatever the beef is, that comparison could never be true imo. Robert is a good guy, they aren’t.
No beef marty mars, just observation.
Blaming the other is a slippery slope
I agree with you Adrian, on the promotion and publicity given to Southern and Molyneux when they were to visit NZ.
We already have laws in NZ regarding “hate speech”, if they broach those laws they should be arrested and prosecuted. If the laws need review, then that should be done. As you mention, we have state broadcasters paying presenters to cultivate intolerant views amongst our communities. We should recognise the harm of that as well.
Allowing such people to talk, also allows our currently failing media to openly discuss and dismiss their intolerance and prejudices en masse, and with certainty.
We get a good idea of the number of locals who are such fans they are prepared to pay for tickets, and we avoid them having the “injustice” and “persecution” flag to rally their followers with.
We need to learn how to identify and recognise those NZers whose intolerance has reached concerning levels. Having them attend a speaking event where they can be counted and assessed is surely a good thing for security and mitigation.
We need to describe the process of white supremacists having their their brains filled with this shit exactly the way the media and politicians use for ‘others’. That is, they are being radicalised.
I don’t think I’ve heard this word used once when talking about these white fascist scum.
Another concern of mine, is that any prohibition outside of current legislation will give precedent to any succeeding governments. And their idea of ‘radical’ speakers, may include those who talk about climate change, climate justice, income equality or global responsibility.
If our current legislation is not robust enough, then we should amend it.
This guy also so had socialist and eco fascist leanings, short man syndrome ….. Irrespective trying to put him on a political spectrum is counter productive, to me he was just one evil SOB
No introspection needed – he called himself a white supremacist and a fascist.
That’s the far right.
And I think all the far right are evil SOB’s.
Yep likewise far left (Stalin,Mao, The red brigade, IRA Baadee Meinhoff gang .,,,this does not mean those of Center left are
Have you met anyone on the authoritarian left you just labeled Bewildered?
Did shatpants go to the pretty nazi’s rallies?
Rubbish Robert
The action of the individual who can’t be named is just one evil sick prick, don’t give him excuses he at the end of the day made the choice to do what he did irrespective of so called influencers, for you to play politics with this is disappointing, taking your arguement I could blame the green party for eco terrorist
I haven’t presented an argument for you to take, Bewildered.
What are you talking about?
I see Colonel Trotter has advanced his position from last weeks “You can’t stop lone nutters” to “Restricting hate speech and fighting fascism and racism will…”
a) involve heavy censorship of all media including libraries because the CCH terrorist was inspired by history books
b) possibly make the anti-racists and anti-xenophobia campaigners a target, as Breivik targeted the Danish Labour party (not that the far right don’t already target these groups)
and
c) you can’t do anything really because no matter what you do some in society will alway hold malicious prejudice
Yet also advocating for a strengthened and empowered Human Rights Commission, which will basically do all the things he says you can’t do.
All layered in the usual critique of Davidson and Gharahman, completed with the now obligatory ‘woke’ criticism.
JP
I object to you calling Chris Trotter ‘Colonel’ and I object to the tone of your comment.
Right wingers who use this horrible action by an extreme, murderous group that feeds on the blood of, usually, disaffected males who have never found anything to live for, are not going to spread this disaffection without being called out. You may feel encouraged by TRP’s comments about Trotter but don’t think that you can turn that into a long shadow that darkens this blog.
Chris discusses different aspects of our culture and psyche along lines that we may not like. He lets us into the dress-up store and try on the different coats that are there.
The white coat of purity (no good soon gets dirty), perhaps black (very popular non-colour in today’s NZ), red (reminds us of fire), yellow (a bit bright and clear, we like to merge into the background). Some don’t like him because they don’t like to think and examine the country, our society, themselves. You think you are thinking, but are you just on automatic, thinking while going forward is important.
You will be interested in his latest post.
Trotsker waves his perfumed kerchief elegantly under his nose and sighs as he ponders the exquisite ironies of the lives of lesser beings. Makes mental note to discuss praxis of intertia with franky if he can find a little man to dial for him.
Gabby what a load of shite.
Trotsker vaguely recalls a passage in Theucydides reporting on the Parthian practice of self-decoration with ordure, poff poff. Must make witty allusion to Cultural Marxism. Poff poff.
Comment o’ the Day!
When ever gabby comments I feel like it’s just for fun but when ever Chris Trotter does it it’s always a lot more serious. I just love the fact that Trotter is so under control he can sit around and just be home.
Is there any solution to angry male syndrome?
As a former angry (white) male myself – a bit of care, compassion and a sense of belonging switched me from a self-destructive path to a less destructive one.
JP, Yes Jacinda has shown how powerful love is. We actually know that, putting it into practice is when the power starts. If you don;t know where to start try gentle touch of hands or a hug. regardless of race or gender we all need that.
VTO you are better than that comment.
Happy to hear what’s wrong with it in your opinion Patricia.. what’s wrong with it?
First sentence challenges whether rata’s idea exists. Where is the evidence? Weka banned me for not providing evidence when making such large claims.
Second sentence challenges how the question was structured, by bouncing back one of similar structure for highlighting purposes. i.e. loaded
Yes VTO, I got that, but it is a recognised syndrome, and studies have shown all warm blooded mammals need touch and cuddles to thrive.
I felt your unanswerable question was not your usual thoughtful reply, and made fun of a serious question. Why did you do that?
Ok, thanks. I also felt rata’s question was unanswerable given its inherent assumption (loaded) that there was such a thing (still seen no evidence), and the reason for the respectless reply in kind was that respectless post in the first instance..
but your point is noted and perhaps a reply in kind isn’t always the best manner of response.. despite the bare knuckled nature of rata’s post
anyway, taking your word that there is such a thing..
.. rata’s question might be better approached by asking “what causes angry male syndrome?” rather than “what’s the solution?”
it aint possible to repair if the fault is unknown
one final matter – in the long past I had the fortune to work next to and under one of NZ’s most successful people. One thing I noticed was that it was never about finding the right answer to something, as an answer can nearly always be found… it was always about finding the right question
Thank you VTO, Yes, perhaps I over simplified it. I thought his was a cry of “how do we deal with this?” because for years I worked with students of an age where one kind caring person could alter the course of a life. I do believe it is breaking down barriers and building pathways, and sharing gifts.
Asking the right question indicates reflection on a topic.
“Why do we have terrorists?” “Why do we have deprived people.?”
Sadly same answer.
Below I replied to Pscho M. about another reason for problems, the
acceptance of difference.
Can you speak to my cat 😊
Anger is a necessary emotion in many cases.
Driving good as well as bad.
Don’t you mean mis-directed, anger?
That would require it to exist in the first place
Stopped beating your wife yet?
You sound angry.
Yes doesn’t it Marty.
vto has a good side and all is not bad.
“That would require it to exist in the first place”
A logical question, dispassionately expressed.
“Stopped beating your wife yet?”
The standard, poignant response to loaded questions.
Vto sounds not at all angry to me.
Can’t stand that loaded saying/question, personally I find it highly offensive. Try being a beaten wife. JS.
Yep cyanide tablet.
After the week NZ has been through, and you still think this violent hate speech is ok?
Skunk, you never seem to add any value to the discussions here.
Where have you come from noddy ?
Precisely
Rata, – yes and thanks for asking that badly needed question.
See my comments on 6 please.
Angry Male Syndrome plus Methamphetamine = F&#k Up
Is there any solution to angry male syndrome?
Sure, just not very feasible solutions:
1. Replace sexual reproduction with some kind of in-vitro technical mechanism for creating new people and remove everyone’s sex organs.
2. Use genetic engineering or some other forced evolutionary process to turn Homo Sapiens into something else.
3. Exterminate Homo Sapiens.
Does one of them stand out as more appealing than the others?
So angry men are with us forever and they can’t change or improve becauseeeee they have seen older angry men not taking responsibility for their anger and blaming others especially women and men who aren’t angry at that time. Bit of a problem eh.
The differences between men and women are due to sexual reproduction and the evolutionary effects of that on behaviour. So, we can educate and encourage and admonish people as much as we like, there are still going to be significant differences between men and women, not least of which is there’s a shitload more testosterone in men. The question asked was “Is there any solution to angry male syndrome?”, not “Are there ways of mitigating angry male syndrome?”.
So anger in men is hard wired in your opinion.
It doesn’t work like that, it’s just a more-likely-to/less-likely-to thing.
Evolutionary behaviour operates at the population level, in a similar way to physical characteristics. For example, on average men are taller than women, but there’s no guarantee I’m going to be taller than any individual woman I meet. I may even be shorter than most women.
In the same way, men are influenced by testosterone a lot more than women are, but that doesn’t guarantee I’ll be more aggressive than any woman I meet.
It’s at the top ends of these bell curves where you get the biggest differences between the sexes. The tallest men are going to be way taller than the overwhelming majority of people regardless of sex, and the angriest, most aggressive men are going to be way more angry and aggressive than the overwhelming majority of people regardless of sex. The angriest, most aggressive women just won’t be in the same league.
Psycho, aren’t you mixing up anger and aggression? I often see people do this – conflate aggression with violence e.g. think rugby is violent, when it is simply aggressive… or aggression with anger… or discipline with violence…
I see people mix these things up all the time, leading to unfortunate outcomes in their minds I think
You will see through all of that of course as you are clearly smart. 2c.
Sorry, yes, I shouldn’t just mix the words anger and aggression in these comments as though they were interchangeable. Both are affected by testosterone and evolutionary behaviour, but they’re different things.
Ho hum yeah yeah I know what you believe in that area. Blaming evolution is the same as not accepting responsibility imo on this one. Bit lazy too.
Your opinion is worthless outside your own head. If you think accepting that evolution influences behaviour in humans as well as other animals is just a way of abdicating responsibility, make an argument for it.
I hold marty’s opinion as having worth.
Free copies of ‘You Can’t Always Get What You Want’ to be listened to nightly before bedtime.
+1
and ‘imagine’ and’ give peace a chance’
Na men need to feel valued and like they contributing, needed and respected . In an age were there is no path to be ones own man many get lost .
But if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need waggers.
Stay of the pipe there gabby you’ve lost me.
Got to agree. And the lost can be easily led.
We (men) get told we must be leaders, when some of us just want a decent person/cause worth helping…
There’s nothing subservient in it, we all have strengths in different areas.
We don’t all want to be a big boss. But purpose helps.
ah 10CC…thank you WTB…that sent me on a forgotten odyssey
Of the 154 mass shootings recorded in the U.S. in 2018 through 28 June…
…”two-thirds of the cases in which a suspect was identified involved black men, and when the definition of a mass shooting was slightly expanded, the list of incidents included five in which investigators were in no doubt that a woman was responsible. ”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shootings-in-2018/
To put that in context – mass shootings was defined as “four or more people (not including the attacker) are shot in a single incident” (i.e. shot not killed).
Typically, we think of mass shootings as person going to a place which has a high density of people and killing indiscriminately. From the same sources “When we consulted the Mother Jones database, a source that strips away non-fatal, non-public, and gang-related mass shootings, we are left with only six incidents between 1 January and 28 June 2018. In five of those, the suspect was a white man, and in the remaining case the suspect was an Asian-American man. ”
Statistically, we can’t say much about 6 people.
Anger can be a useful emotion – the problems arise when it dominates or gets out of balance with other emotions, or is irrationally directed at the wrong targets.
Personally, I think we have a growing plague of alienation – economic life is a frantic, individuated and often losing scramble for a sort of survival, that even when achieved, is itself meaningless and lacks authenticity.
These circumstances will produce nasty symptoms, especially at the margins.
I was taught when angry, ask yourself, what am I desiring right now?
A desire not being met is the most common cause of anger.
If that isn’t controversial enough: happiness is our natural state. If unhappy, something is covering over our happiness.
Thich Nhat Hanh has one. Anger: Wisdom for cooling the flames.
Yes stop demonising, stereo typing white males
Yes.
Is there any solution to angry male syndrome?
Give men meaningful productive things to do with their lives. Men who feel like they’re useless and have no control in a chaotic world are dangerous. We’re dumb apes like that.
You think shit’s bad now, just wait until automation and machine learning wipe out half the jobs in the world.
Ironically Jordan Peterson’s book “12 Rules for Life” is a direct attempt to deal with this problem, but I hear he’s thoughtcrime now.
It is probably as simple as something like a surfboard
Hurt people hurt people.
Behind an angry man is an angry man.
What’s in front of an angry man?
I was so very impressed with the caring, warm, sensitive ‘inclusive’ call by the gentle character of Efeso Collins today on the TV one morning panel.
Efeso is exactly the type of leader we desperately need to heal us all in today’s divided secular bitter broken society.
Sadly the presentation by the much more ‘abrasive character of Mary Lambie was sadly an injury to our feelings of hope that this tragedy will bring us together in the wonderful manner that Efeso wants “in a totally inclusive warm caring manner as we are desperately hoping all our community issues may also be resolved.
It is a must watch to see the special tenderness expressed by this extraordinary man Efeso Collins that should be a senior MP in this current Labour government who has expressed the same will to add Labour as a, Quote; “gentle, kind, caring, inclusive government”.
This was a special moment that came from the TV one morning report after 8 am during the discussion panel on the Christchurch memorial happening today one week after the killings.
For anyone wanting a uplifting and inspiring story here is a brief history of the radical International Longshore and Warehouse Union in the San Francisco Bay Area, it is quite humbling to be reminded of the power that united workers can do for good, not only for themselves collectively but for the whole community, and ultimately the country…
Radio KPFA
Against the Grain
03.13.19
https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-grain-march-13-2019/
“Dockworkers the world over have a long tradition of both power and militancy, able to block the flow of cargo and jam up the workings of capitalism. The International Longshore and Warehouse Union in the San Francisco Bay Area has been one of the most radical of American unions. Historian Peter Cole discusses the fascinating story of the ILWU and how an originally white workforce committed itself to racial equality and integration — and how the later majority black workforce became the radical backbone of the anti-apartheid and international solidarity movements in the Bay Area”
That sounds interesting Adrian Thornton. I have restored faith in your perspicacity.
Thank you Adrian.
When I was in US a few years ago this port was one of the lowest productive ports in the Us re containers processed per hour, likewise the general view is that San Francisco has gone to the dogs after many years of left rule, so news not all good
Its not just an issue of “Left Rule’. The Union don’t own the Port , in the 50’s the State took ownership…. “State ownership put the Port of San Francisco in a position quite different from any other California port. Most importantly, the budgeting system imposed by state ownership effectively hindered facilities upkeep.”, not to mention “jurisdictional morass” and a plethora of geographical and modernisation issues.
You might find this interesting…
https://www.spur.org/publications/urbanist-article/1999-11-01/decline-port
Thanks
Well well well…..Hoots that master of spin over at the fish wrap this morning in a cunning piece of right wing propaganda draws comparison between Jacinda Ardern’s response to the terrorist attack in Christchurch to the “empathy” and “steely” resolve” of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher after similar events back in the 80’s.
Aligning Jacinda Ardern alongside those two wreckers is a gross insult.
He then implores that we should be “boldly making the case for free and open markets and globalisation” and that we should “no longer reject the term neo-liberal, so often used as abuse, but reclaim it…..”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12215075
Well Hoots you can just shove that propaganda right up where the sun don’t shine.
Couldn’t agree more Kat. I thought as I read his piece “You bloody opportunist you!!”
So pleased to see him called out here.
And what about this ‘son of a bitch’
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215110
Anyway the good Bishop Tamaki writes “..there is no God but Allah” well I Disagree..”Jesus Christ “ is the only True God..This is Not US! ”
That will be a change for Christians then.
He’s just ignorant. Yahweh = Jehovah = Allah. A “Bishop” ought to know that.
He’s not a “Bishop” of course. It’s what he calls himself. He may kid himself he’s working for “the Lord” but he’s really just a self-serving p***k who is milking his flock for all they’re worth.
I’m not a religious person but that does not stop me admiring the tremendous amount of good work carried out by people from different religous backgrounds and… calling out the fakes. Tamaki is a fake.
He crowned himself.
Bish Tomato is a heretic then.
That’s the least odious of his attributes.
What a lowlife – hit him where it hurts – his pocket – audit the shit out of his scrooge mcduck vault.
+100 marty mars
Those of us who are secular, regard religions as important cultural artefacts. So a statement asserting that Allah is the true God, we take as an expression of belief that has no objective correlation with anything outside the speaker’s mind.
From our perspective, there is nothing there that can be disagreed with – because the statement has nothing to say about the external world.
Unlike us, Tamaki is a literalist believer – an odd throwback for sure, but simply a very different worldview.
Fancy that eh? Remember how in 2004, Tamaki predicted Destiny Church would be “ruling the nation” before its tenth anniversary in 2008?
Imagine him being Prime Minister at any time let alone over the past week.
You don’t have to be a Christian to be offended by an officially-sanctioned, nationally-broadcast Muslim declaration of faith. Ardern is going way too far with this. NZ is a secular country and the overwhelming majority would reject the claim being broadcast at them.
Hardly any different to singing the national anthem or other crap that happens.
Very different, in fact. The NZ government is about to broadcast to the nation the declaration “There is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is is his prophet.” In this instance, the NZ government can fuck right off.
Sad and belligerent. No one asked you to alter your life, just to acknowledge their loss. Was that too much for you? Do you think Maori should be spoken over the air? Other languages? Other beliefs? Because why?????
NZ’s a secular country, so the government has no business broadcasting declarations about true gods and prophets. That has nothing to do with acknowledging Muslims’ loss last Friday, nor with Māori spoken on air, nor with whatever other irrelevant things people would like it to be about.
So why aren’t/haven’t you complained about the national anthem?
It isn’t a government declaration, it is a Muslim prayer.
Maybe you aren’t familiar with Islam. This “prayer” consists of the phrases “Allah is great. There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet.” Which makes your analogy with the national anthem a false analogy. A better analogy would be the government broadcasting the Nicene Creed to the country.
It’s the same fucking god as Christianity. Same heritage. The Christian stuff implies that there is only one god as Jesus he introduced monotheism to the middle east. Unless in fact there is a separate “god of nations”. Might need to check that with the UN.
Islam holds that Muhammad is the last of many prophets including Jesus. He is just the most up-to-date version.
You are just being precious.
It’s the same fucking god as Christianity. Same heritage. The Christian stuff implies that there is only one god as Jesus…
Hence my comment that an appropriate analogy would be the government broadcasting the Nicene Creed nationwide. Did you actually read it, or are you just spouting off at a straw man?
Just fuck off and grow up. It is your kind of attitude which is the problem.
I reckon, just this once, I figure I’ll let it go. And give less of a shit about it than I ever did about parliament opening with a prayer, or references to God in the national anthem. Which was FA anyway, tbh.
Because maybe a little extra effort in helping a particular section of our community feel included rather than othered is particularly important at the moment.
Lying to them isn’t including them.
What’s the lie?
I’m pretty confident that the people who decided to broadcast this declaration nation-wide don’t actually believe that there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet.
I’m pretty sure nobody of that faith believes it means NZ is now a caliphate, and it was never presented as such.
Find something better to worry about. Like nazis.
@PM
Still going on about it. What an infant.
For anybody who believes in one god the statement is true. For the rest of us it is no more than we regularly tolerate. Actually having said that it is less. Christians claim that their prophet IS god or a third there of.
Find something better to worry about.
Feel free not to give a shit whether the NZ government respects secularism and the separation of church and state if you like, it’s a free country. But there’s no obligation on me to share your lack of interest.
@PM
>>>>> NATIONAL ANTHEM <<<<<
You have still not addressed the fact that the Christian god is referred to in every verse of our national anthem.
Get over yourself.
Addressed multiple times. If you don’t read the comments, there’s nothing I can do about that.
Go on then, say it again. Some of us have to take a break to go to the beach.
Nothing to really say but eh.
Feel free not to give a shit whether the NZ government respects secularism and the separation of church and state
What a noddy.
Sorry, I didn’t quite get why you think it’s a lie.
God wouldn’t be misled if it exists. It was clearly billed as a gesture of empathy after what happened. I don’t think that anyone other than you and Brian Tamaki thinks it means anything more than that.
To the pragmatist, there’s nothing so petty and irrelevant as a point of principle.
Solkta: you seem very angry about something. Have you tried thinking about what it is you’re angry about, so you can deal with it rather than just lashing out in your comments?
@PM
I’m angry with fuckwits like you.
So there was no lie, but you don’t care because pragmatism?
Doesn’t that make your unretracted accusation of a lie a lie itself?
My writing must really be going downhill, the way people keep asking me to re-state things.
The NZ government broadcast nationwide a declaration that Islam is the one true religion (something that is, or should be, offensive to secularists, but let’s leave that aside for a moment).
There are two possible scenarios:
1. The government broadcast this declaration knowing it to be untrue, ie it lied. It’s also effectively a lie in that it may encourage Muslims to believe NZ in general will be less secular and less hostile to religious fuckwittery as a result of this attack, which it won’t.
2. Or, the government didn’t know it was broadcasting a declaration that Islam is the one true religion, and just sees the adhan as a bunch of wailing noises Muslims make when it’s prayer time. That would make it an ignorance-based token gesture, which means it effectively lied when claiming the broadcast shows inclusiveness.
Would you settle for calling it a white lie?
Option 3 is that the message being broadcast was more than the literal interpretation of its words, and that everyone bloody knows this, that nobody intended to mislead or was genuinely misled, but that some folks who want to get pissed off will pretend they thought it was an indication parliament and the government had all converted to Islam just so they can make it all about them rather than about the community that was targetted.
There was no lie. It was the most honest gesture our government has made in years.
Would you settle for calling it a white lie?
Sure. Their hearts are in the right place, and for the most part their efforts to make it clear our Muslim population are as welcome here as anyone else have been great. However, this particular instance of it was something a secular state should not do, regardless of the circumstances.
@PM
A secular state that has a national anthem that says that the Christian god is not only the god of this nation but the god of all nations.
Still talking total crap you are.
McFlock: yes, you made your thoughts on this clear already, hence my comment that there’s nothing so petty and irrelevant to the pragmatist as a point of principle. But to me, it’s not petty and irrelevant.
solkta: yes, the long and hard-fought battle to make the liberal democracies of the West secular states has left a few historical anomalies like NZ’s national anthem. That isn’t an argument for introducing new anomalies like official declarations of the truth of a particular religion, it’s an argument for continuing to push for the secularisation of our democracy.
Also: you may find it useful to review the logical fallacy entertainingly known as whataboutery.
@PM, something a secular state should not do, regardless of the circumstances.
I kinda hope we’re sufficiently secure and comfortable in our status as a secular state that we can accommodate one-off gestures in exceptional circumstances like we’ve just had.
Sure there’s a big treacherous grey area figuring what does and doesn’t qualify, but to my worldview this time it ain’t even close to the grey. Even though my overall view of Islam is pretty close to yours. Personally, I’m more offended by the remaining vestiges of what used to be effectively state religion than this one-off gesture.
I don’t think it’s petty and irrelevant.
I think it’s an important gesture that NZ is not a “Christian nation”. But that nor is it a nation where religion is forbidden. It’s a nation where everybody can live alongside each other without shitting a brick.
And I think that not only is your interpretation of that simple gesture in a time of great need for such a gesture paranoid, it actually undermines that message of tolerance.
You’re free to hold whatever opinion you like about the government broadcasting declarations of religious faith, as am I.
I’m also free to notice that your justification for calling it a “lie” seems to have evaporated.
Yip if it’s a one off I’ll let it slide . But by fuck my knee’s feeling very jerky.
If you’re not religious, does it really matter? I’m not religious, so they may as well be praying to Gandalf the Grey or Rumpelstiltskin for all the difference it makes to me. If it makes people feel better, and brings a little harmony and well-being to a grieving community, then fill your boots, people. There are more important things to get indignant about.
No worse than not having adverts on TV on Xmas day or the shops being closed on Christian holidays.
I’m not a believer in any god and I’m not offended by this one off show of solidarity.
OTT Psycho show a little bit of compassion ?
Nobody is asking you say it. With the national anthem on the other hand everyone is expected to stand and sing the shit. There is no way that i am going to say that i am at any god’s feet. I do stand though as there seems little point in being disrespectful. Really can’t see how just broadcasting a prayer affects you.
I think your attitude to Islam is where the problem is.
Yet most of us don’t believe in any god, so whether someone believes their god is the one true god is just meaningless words really. For 2 minutes NZ became a Muslim country, and then it didn’t again. BFD. I wonder what the next outrage will be…
…whether someone believes their god is the one true god is just meaningless words really.
I agree. Muslims are welcome to believe ridiculous things, just like Christians or any other religious people. However, the government has no business declaring any particular religion to be true, even if the declaration is just virtue-signalling in the aftermath of a tragedy.
Agree PM, but progressive / regressive are all about virtue signalling so why stop now
And so are the Right – ‘personal responsibility’ never actually applies to their self-serving tax evading assholes – it’s just a stick to beat the victims of their cruel and stupid economic policies.
PM
You and I do share a common background in that we both have considerably more exposure to Islam in it’s native lands, than almost everyone else here. I recall conversations we’ve had on this in the past.
So I do understand your reservations; but a precise calibration of these things to make everyone happy is not possible. Adern is our leader on this and I’m happy to firmly set aside my opinions for the much higher purpose of our national unity.
Certainly for today.
I do appreciate that I’m pushing it uphill with a spoon on this site under these circumstances.
Yup..*gives PM a virtual hug from jude*
Anyways…. brian tamaki could be in the poo for using the NZ parliament coat of arms as some kind of endorsement style logo in one of his broadcasts.
Wonder how that’s going to work out….. will find a link.
I am rather sympathetic with PM in this way: when it comes to that all-important inclusivity, atheists are actually excluded. It seems that we are all praying to God in the news. I am feeling sympathy, but I refuse to pray to a God I don’t believe in. It does leave me a bit uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I gather that Islam is not accepting of declarations of Atheism, or am I wrong in that?
Here’s the link, it’s at the end of the clip.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/brian-tamaki-defends-his-controversial-tweets.html
What happened today, came from a place of love and compassion, and that small gesture may help change the world.
In Vino.. this bit.. “I am feeling sympathy, but I refuse to pray to a God I don’t believe in. It does leave me a bit uncomfortable.”
It was a call to prayer, one could pray to any imaginary friend of their choosing, or simply not pray at all. Least that’s how I saw it.
And this bit…“On the other hand, I gather that Islam is not accepting of declarations of Atheism, or am I wrong in that?” Just because some do it one way doesn’t mean we need to too.
Sometimes we can’t see the forest for the trees.
Sending good vibes to Winny atm.
It was a call to prayer, one could pray to any imaginary friend of their choosing, or simply not pray at all.
You could do what you like, sure. However, those of us who know that the adhan consists of a declaration that the only god is Allah and that Muhammad is the only legitimate prophet take a less sanguine view of its endorsement by our government. Ignorance may be bliss, but it remains ignorance.
The separation of church and state need not be absolute. For the duration of a funeral, the religious preferences of the deceased and their family deserve some consideration. I’m led to believe that a number of Maori observances our political class adhere to are religious also.
Nor was it so very long ago that MPs had a parliamentary prayer, the function of which, like the Roman Auriga, was to remind MPs of their fallibility and ward them from hubris. Trevor Mallard, having attained (in his own mind) infallibility, felt he could dispense with the reminder. No doubt Fate has something classically Greek lined up for him, probably involving moas.
PM, but dosen’t every religion have a clause that their god is the only god and if you believe in any other god then hell fire and brimstone and all that.
I do however agree with S.M… this bit “For the duration of a funeral, the religious preferences of the deceased and their family deserve some consideration”
The timeline of reaction… will be interesting to find out how the rest of the world reacts re today, they be sleeping atm.
And PM you are right about ignorance, but there is also room for growth re attitudes as well as growth re experience/knowledge. And I understand that you are well versed on said subject so value your opinions.
OMG… just looked out the open door and there is this MASSIVE gold moon, beautifully round coming out of the ocean. Wow! That’s a treat. Nitey nite 🙂 hope you can see the moon, it’s epic tonite.
Cinny, I too agree with SM in this case, but I am left with the chill dread that no atheists will ever get such consideration; that other groups may also suffer massacre, and always the call will be to prayer.
I think PM is right in saying that the state must remain secular.
After this is settled maybe we could have a discussion about secularism – except it won’t seem urgent then, will it?
dosen’t every religion have a clause that their god is the only god
Actually Judaism doesn’t as the old testament is not monotheistic. Moses said to to the Egyptian pharaoh that his people worshiped Yahweh and that Yahweh was more powerful than the Egyptian gods and that he would send “flies and frogs upon thee”. It was after that when wandering through the desert that Yahweh decided to choose the Hebrew people as “his people”.
Monotheism was still radical thought when Jesus came along. That was a big part of why he upset the apple cart so. Hitherto the Romans had taken a live and let live approach to religion. The Romans had their gods and the Hebrews their god. Jesus came along and said that there was only one god and it was his, a very seemingly arrogant thing for the times.
solkta – you conveniently leave out Moses getting the tablets with ten commandments and the very first of those commandments. Sorry, but most of us see the Jews as being monotheistic from that point on. Monotheism was not a radical thought to Jews. Christ himself was a Jew, and spoke of that same God. The rest of the people in the old testament may well have been polytheists, just as the Romans were.
@ In Vino
You shall have no other gods before me
Yahweh is saying that he is the god of the Hebrews and that they dare not worship any other god, not that there are not any other gods.
Hi, In Vino.
Really interesting how sometimes things just flow, have just been checking out the morning papers, it must be time for change.
This comment of yours above…. “I am left with the chill dread that no atheists will ever get such consideration;”
With that in mind….turns out our PM is agnostic… from stuff this morning…
” Reporters do not usually ask if prime ministers feel sad. Nor do they ask if they are religious. But this has not been a typical week.
“I consider myself to be agnostic,” Ardern replied, “but given I was raised in a religious household, I like to think I’m very open-minded to everyone’s choices and faiths and their ways of life.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111497189/we-are-all-forever-changed-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-reflects-on-the-week
With that in mind…….
Jacinda has been projected onto to the Burj Kahlifa in Dubai, that’s an awesome gesture… https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215523
And yes please to a discussion about secularism. At present am really hopefully for global change away from religious competitiveness. I really believe the way Jacinda has responded and Winston as well (from the report’s I’ve seen so far coming out of Turkey), that change is happening.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/erdogan-calls-fight-islamophobia-anti-semitism-190322080646853.html
Incredibly interesting how it’s all unfolding on the world stage. A catalyst for the evolution of humanity, now that would be a good buzz, just like the moon last night, that was beautiful.
I’d be interested in reading this declaration if you have a copy handy milty.
Full description of it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhan.
However, this quote from that page covers it:
“The adhan recites the Takbir (God is great) followed by the Shahada (There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of God).”
Well we had decades of Sunday religious service broadcasts and, even more abominably, pommie footie results at tedious length for the Faithful. No doubt it comforted some.
Ah yes, Praise Be, with that jolly, ruddy-faced chap and his vast collection of cardigans. I remember saying to my mum one morning, “Mum? Why is this boring crap on telly every Sunday?” I think I got a slap for that one.
That’s a blast from the past I forgot about him Sundsy 7pm I think, and we only had one channel 😊
Radio weecheese, radio. 11am. Methody one week, pressbutton or anglecans the next. Deadly dull. Roll on lunchtime and the brass bands.
‘Twas the wireless..
I remember the ‘wireless’ on a Sunday morning at 9am. The church service of the day began and the wireless went into ‘off’ mode. As a child I also remember the death of King George 6th. They played funeral music all day for days on end. It was so gloomy and doomy I remember being frightened.
And the hymns, 90% written by the same bloke and sounding like it.
God?
Rhythmically retarded that fella was.
Not if you’re a Fulham supporter, Gloopy. No comfort there at all.
That is just and righteous punishment Al0on.
Still, better than the cruel torture that is QPR, Grabby.
roman catholic here, and i am not offended at all.
i don’t think any christian who practices his/her religion would be offended by a call to prayer to commemorate the slaughter of the innocents last week.
And the call today was not to change anything here but to honor the death.
So in essence she did everything right.
When I travelled the Middle East as a young fella I found the dawn call to prayer very comforting and uplifting Albeit had know idea what they were saying but made for good reflection anyway
Well you should have bloody well found out what they were saying. Real lightweight tourist, weren’t you? No wonder you are now bewildered.
Forever bewildered it would seem.
I dunno.I listen to sean nòs Irish singing in the Gaelic. Beautiful. Don’t understand any more than 10 words. But the melody, the tone, the quality of the voice.
I once attended a Sufi service in Turkey, spinning Dervishes, the works. Brilliant. Didn’t understand a word. Very spiritual, very musical.
Later I went to a theatre performance of “The Cripple of Inishmaan” in Istanbul. Brilliant. Didn’t understand a word of the Turkish, but I knew the play as I played a role in it.
For me, as a musician, the Moslem call to music is beautiful in its minor, modal way.
So I believe I understand BM’s point of view here.
Remind me of this thread next time the Ratana circle-jerk rolls around.
Say’s the self proclaimed bishop… go freaking figure.
He does know that Allah is another word for God….. his ignorance is mind boggling.
PS He’s being slayed on the twitter for it….. good.
https://twitter.com/BishopTamaki/status/1108644909664202752
no true scotsman
Brexit solution ?
German firm stores 3.5 million toilet rolls in UK to avoid customs delays, builds six weeks supplies of cardboard core imported from Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, and charters ships to take supplies from Naples to Swansea .. but what if they run out ?
Businesses from car manufacturing to supermarkets to pharmaceutical firms have been doing the same with the prospect of lengthy delays and increasing cost of materials.
The prospect of a British long-drop in winter … ?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/uk-biggest-toilet-roll-supplier-wepa-stockpiling-no-deal-brexit-avoid-customs-delays
Well, you eat the cheese, that blocks you up pretty good and just before you get back to the land of toilets you eat the milk powder. That gets things flowing again.
Cost inflation is going to be significant in unpredictable areas putting sand in the gears of the economy. It will be interesting, from this distance,
Cataractacus
You have got onto a good story there. One of the zillion things that the
Conservatives haven’t thought of.
Their recent prowess indicates that they are too old and out of touch with the And keeping the British parliamentary system in its present condition ignores the obvious needed re-organisation. I suggest MMP – we got it from the Germans and it is useful, they should learn from the Germans who have dominated productive enterprise in Europe since World War 2, Brits seem to have settled for financing, being the bankers who watch the screen and don’t see Trouble creeping up behind.
Brexit decision postponed temporarily – bring it on for the End of May.
Who says they haven’t thought of it? Where there’s scarcity there’s profit.
Sam – ha ha you made me laugh thanks for that.
Back in the day having spares lying around made businesses resilient to glitches in supply chains and markets. But then the accountants came and taught them to monitor stock and sales in order to hold less stock thus more ‘free capital’.
This only works when everything’s working.
While hoarding isn’t helpful, these companies are thinking ahead.
Brexit is analogous to being at the pub at 2am in the morning and your mate says let’s go to this really good bar down the road You leave the bar but the bar down the road is empty, the doormen won’t let you back in the bar you left , so your left eating a stale kebab on the street
LOL. Great analogy. Been there.
Kat re hoots…..didn’t click on the link as don’t want to waste 5minutes of my life…..
I think in the last week it has been blantantly obvious how pro national and anti labour our msm commentators are……..I know for many this is stating the bleeding obvious, but it has been so amplified in the last week.
I have read only one positive account of ardern handling of this tragedy and that was from Clare Trevit. John Armstrong had a positive headline, but his first paragraph was a hysterical rant about how gun laws must change and Ardern can’t slip up on this.
Ffs even the Turkish PM has praised Ardern….where’s Barry, Audrey mike etc……..
Ankerrawsharkal, the fish wrap aka the herald fronts as national media and cannot, must not, be allowed to get away with this type of spin. It is the very inciting, influencing propaganda shyte that everyone has been rallying against, just a bit more polished.
You may have to hold your breath but do read it.
I noted the red haired’ Jessica Mutch on TV1 could only manage ‘she’s done quite well’ when asked what she thought of Ardern’s response to the massacre. Dead pan face while she said it gave away her discomfort at having to acknowledge as much.
ooh sorry… Jessica Mutch-McKay now.
The terrible massacres of last Friday brought out the nutters…
At the time there were the two people arrested at Papanui – dressed in camo, armed and ready to ‘help’ the police.
Day after, in our nearby ‘burb, four police cars screamed past to pick up another person, also dressed in camo walking down the street carrying a samurai sword.
There was another elsewhere in NZ (can’t locate just now).
Are those the tip of the iceberg? I would guess so. Is perhaps why most all of Christchurch retreated into their homes Friday and stayed put through Saturday and only slowly emerged after that… the streets were not considered safe… and we can now see why …. the camo’ed nutters came out with their weapons..
.. then yesterday in an outskirts part of the city I found myself down a little-used dead-end road, which at the end had a property with large overgrown trees and dilapidated buildings, with several signs saying “marine exercise zone” type things, and with gun imagery the same as that used by the supremacists and survivalists … I retreated quietly and quickly.
What a place. Civilization seems like a thin veneer at times…
Occasionally the well-constructed media facade slips and middle-class people get to see reality as others do. Don’t worry .. there will soon be a sporting event, celebrity sex scandal, or some other excess which trumps it all. Orwell was right on many levels ..
vto;
Auckland has become a ‘basket case’ it seems now clearly depicted by your pictures you VTO have conveyed here on 12.
I shudder; – now as I was born there in Point Chevalier in 1944.
Report that VTO, it is on their radar now.
You’ve reported this, right veetee?
No not yet. It wasn’t that well hidden, and I’m sure the police will be well aware, there being a police station within a km or so.
.. however I will soon just to be sure
Don’t bet on it given the general inability to locate arse with both hands they exhibit. Tell them you think it’s communists.
That one did actually make me laugh. Repeatedly. I’ve been learning to develop a healthy respect for your perceptive faculties. Gift of the gab. 😎
New Zealand government is going to have to re-think ANZAC day.
Fast approaching.
The victims should also go on the Wellington National Memorial.
RSA won’t be able to work that fast Ad;
RSA – before any changes are ordered, they need to go before the membership firstly,
Being an ex NZ army and RSA member, we have to vote before any changes are made; – that is our right to democracy we fought in wars to preserve.
Would expect nothing less from the RSA.
Ardern’s team including NZDF will do the re- thinking.
None are exempt.
I have not really thought of criminal/ terrorist actions within New Zealand as being equivalent to war, although there are obvious similarities between the job police do in peacetime and soldiers do in war. Would it not be the police rather than the victims that should march on ANZAC day? I was also under the impression that New Zealanders have joined with Turkish people in celebrating ANZAC day, and that soldiers from Japan and Germany have joined our forces in commemoration of sacrifices made in times of war. Did concentration camp survivors ever join in such commemorative ceremonies? Perhaps I don’t understand the points you are making, Ad and cleangreen.
I did serve briefly in a territorial force, but have never belonged to regular forces or the RSA – are they in charge of the national commemorative ceremonies? I see democracy as including civilians – is that wrong?
You are sounding disturbingly like the Thought Police.
The victims of this massacre may well deserve their own memorial, but the RSA has guardianship of the War Memorials, and rightly so.
Yes what to do about Anzac Day.
Short time but urgency must be given to plans and arrangements that are appropriate.
Appoint a Race Relations Commissioner as well.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/christchurch-terror-attacks-highlight-need-new-race-relations-commissioner
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/20-03-2019/10-years-of-public-spy-documents-and-no-mention-of-white-supremacist-threats/
10 years of public spy documents and no mention of white supremacist threats
I nominate Dame Anne Salmond, better still Anjum Rahman, but I can hear a few public s’ervants’ screaming “please NO!!!!!” as I type
Sorry I had not realised that a National Memorial was necessarily a War memorial.
Not always, but in this case it clearly is, always has been and no doubt always will be.
On the 24th april 1915 was the day of red sunday The internment of the Armenian intellectuals and the start of the Armenian pogrom.
Do you think we should have a Holocaust memorial on the wellington south coast beside the Ataturk memorial?
Should we have listened to Arthur Conan Doyle and partitioned Germany in 1919 as he suggested to the Anzac club?
Speaking of the future, Sir Conan Doyle said that thoughtful people could not look at the position without anxiety. The revengeful, brooding German nation, numbering not less than 70 or 80 millions, would be opposite the dwindling French nation, numbering with Alsace-Lorraine not more than 45 millions. If we did not want our children or grand-children to have to do this job again, we ought, now that we had the Germans down, to pull their teeth and cut their claws. (Cheers.) Germany’s military position had been actually. strengthened. In place of great military neighbours like the Russia and Austria which existed before the war, Germany would now have on the east and the south a lot of little States, any of which could be neutralized by a German corps or two. The proposal that the whole west bank of the Rhine should he placed under the administration of France he did not think feasible. It would be going against everything we had fought for in this war, if we put 10,000,000 Germans under the French. It was clean against President Wilson’s 14 points, and once they had been broken to such an extent the whole thing would go by the board. What he thought could easily be done — and he only threw it out as a suggestion — was that territory to the West of the Rhine should be made a separate German country. If the Germans liked to federate, well and good ; but the West of the Rhine should be a unit, when certain laws should not be broken except on pain of war. One law was that out of the population on that side of the Rhine the Germans should get no conscripts.
https://www.arthur-conan-doyle.com/index.php?title=File:The-times-1919-01-28-p3-exploits-of-the-anzacs.jpg
Overdue .. as is a re-assessment of WWI from an Antipodean perspective.
European histories construct ANZAC as an Anglo-French enterprise which included an Australasian component.
Ah, actually it was. Even at Gallipoli, the ANZACs were a relatively minor part of the mix.
“Unique among World War I campaigns, the fighting at Gallipoli brought together a modern amphibious assault and multi-national combined operations. It took place on a landscape littered with classical and romantic sites – just across the Dardanelles from the ruins of Homer’s Troy. The campaign became, perhaps, the greatest ‘what if’ of the war. The concept behind it was grand strategy of the highest order, had it been successful it might have led to conditions ending the war two years early on Allied terms. This could have avoided the bloodletting of 1916-18, saved Tsarist Russia from revolution and side stepped the disastrous Treaty of Versailles – in effect, altering the course of the entire 20th century.
This study is the first to focus on operational and campaign-level decisions and actions, which drove the conduct of the campaign. It departs from emotive first-hand accounts and offers a broader perspective of the large scale military planning and maneuvering involved in this monstrous struggle on the shores of European Turkey.”
https://ospreypublishing.com/gallipoli (pdf)
https://ospreypublishing.com/mustafa-kemal-ataturk
Mustafa Kemal at Gallipoli – DTIC
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1031579.pdf
There is a free version of the last Osprey pdf on Gallipoli if you look for it hard enough.
The last link iwill automatically download 1031579.pdf
I recommend ‘Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’, Osprey Publishing 2013, by Erickson.
Are we at war addy?
Gabby
If you are not a NZr then you will be interested to know that April 25 each year is called Anzac Day when we honour our killed and indeed all war personnel and the wars we have long been involved in. We usually meet at outdoor commemorative places with a ritual service, well attended. The feature has always been to dwell on WW1 but the other wars are commemorated at the same time.
all war personnel and the wars we have long been involved in.
Yeh nah. ‘We’ deliberately forget about our civil wars.
Thus the question greysie.
It depends on your definition of war, Gabby. We certainly won’t be re-fighting the last one.
The victims should also go on the Wellington National Memorial.
Why? That’s not what the National Memorial is there for. Commemorating this incident isn’t what ANZAC Day’s there for, either.
Time to change both.
Why?
We can have more than one memorial addy. We can have lots and lots if we really want.
I would think Christchurch would be a better place to commemorate them.
Hilarious to see Whale Oil advising members to hide their past comments because apparently there’s some sort of media witch hunt on hate speech. Here’s an example of the sort of stuff they are no longer proud of trumpeting:
“FreemanNZ Cedric • 7 months ago
It is difficult, isn’t it, to be polite about people who you can see are being hoodwinked into supporting a cause like ‘multiculturalism’ when in fact they are just an unwitting rent-a-crowd organised remotely via easily-manipulated pathetic social justice warriors by outfits like the Federation of Islamic Associations of NZ to suppress knowledge of what Islam has in store for us kaffirs.
I really believe it should be legal to preemptively do to Muslims what they pray five times a day they will do to those of us who refuse to convert to their way.”
Lovely stuff, in the hallowed name of free speech. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however hateful. But at least have the guts to put your name to your words.
Under the Fatman, Whaleoil was at least interesting from a political perspective from time to time (whether or not you agreed with his rantings).
Over the last year, the site has noticeably moved to a Fundamentalist Christian/Hate speech site.
With Fatmans wife now in control, it is endless worshipping of Milo Yiannopoulos and Tommy Robinson (both comic book characters with assumed names).
I would be surprised if that site remains at its current level a year from now.
Your comment sent me off to Whale Oil to see how they have been coping with the past week. Some retard called “Wibble’ summed up their take on events:
I see…. Jacinda Ardern is the perpetrator – including the massacre?
Wot about the gunman in police custody then? Will they set him free cos he’s not done nuffink wrong. It was Jacinda.
Seriously though, her protection is now paramount. She will be target No.1 for a long time to come. It’s a big worry.
If ‘Dribble’ believed the crap he was splunking, he’d be keeping a much lower profile.
Dribble’s a retard. He/she isn’t the problem. It’s the shadowy figures behind those types who are the problem. No-one knows who they are.
Well, lets hope ‘the powers that be’ are busy finding out.
And right on cue:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215418
I tried having a twitter discussion with Juana the other day. Totally convinced that her hubby’s site hasn’t contributed to the global hate that fuelled the terrorist. Also unable to see the connection between hate speech and hate acts. Sad person.
If you hope that stopping people saying hateful things will stop them from thinking hateful things … you are going to be disappointed.
Lookout !!!- here comes Judith !!!
Judith Collins to gun lobby: Bugger off | Newshub
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/…/03/judith-collins-to-gun-lobby-bugger-off.html
Where’s that photo of Judith Collins, gleeful expression on her face, firing rounds from a pistol at the police firing range?
Here:
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/12/23/only-judith-collins-would-suggest-the-solution-to-domestic-violence-is-guns/
Well I never saw what Pucky saw in her but I must say… I think shes finally on the right side of history ( puke : what a cliche’ – never remind me again I typed that in future… thank you . ) .
Mind you , the issue of firearms and the Police was forced on us now from outside reasons beyond our control. Such an ugly sordid incident. Such a sullying thing for our nation.
Maybe she’s sniffed out the opportunity for a 2nd hand gun export business. Relabelled as table legs of course.
Kauri stocks.
NZ bore water to cool the larger models…
boom, boom.
As in Basil Brush…
Gabby ha ha could be? –
15.1.1.1.1 “Maybe she’s (Collins) sniffed out the opportunity for a 2nd hand gun export business.”
Yes…..
Aw yeah!
Yep Wild Katipo,
We saw that in today’s TV one meet Labour/Nats back benchers expose.
She said Bugger off Gun Lobby.
She wants to use the same method of crushing the rifles as she used for cars?
“Crusher Collins is back”
WK
Please don’t just talk about the incident being a sullying thing for our nation without mentioning the people involved in the tragedy. And that it has been heart-breaking for those left grieving for their dead and injured. I think they should be referred to in a general summary of the sad event and its effects.
Yeah I thought about that , then I thought ‘our nation ‘ is inclusive of those who died.
Getting a little tired of the nitpicking and sniping from you mate. If what I typed seemed a little cold and detached it wasn’t meant to be.
We all have a role we are great at. And with bipartisanship we have exactly what it takes to get shit done.
Judith – Attack!
Scarier than Mitchell.
Dying when the individual decide the time is right.
Can we have that for the terminally ill and similar please.
https://www.noted.co.nz/health/health/lecretia-seales-matt-vickers-makes-his-case-for-death-with-dignity/
As Parliament’s Justice Select Committee prepares to report back on David Seymour’s controversial End of Life Choice Bill, Matt Vickers – the widower of assisted dying advocate Lecretia Seales – makes his case for death with dignity.
Greywarshark,
I was injured in Canada in 1992 when working in an unventilated 12 story office building in downtown Toronto for six months and suffered eventually from chronic chemical poisoning that almost cost me my life.
Prior to walking into that building i was a very health fit kiwi with a impeccable medical health record shown by the Bell Canada employment records after application medical testing before being hired onto the job.
I was an active Kiwi in the Toronto “Tranzac” Kapahaka group representing NZ.
After toxic chemical poisoning I lost 30% of my memory, muscle power and mobility, and was actually dying with Toxic Encephalopathy and chemical overload.
I have defied the sentence of death so far and now live away from chemicals and after years of “detoxifying my brain and body can attest to being able to life longer, so no-one need to call it quits early in life.
I have lost my former ‘full’ life but still have a life today.
http://www.ajnr.org/content/ajnr/13/2/747.full.pdf
There is growing awareness that chronic intoxications by industrial, agricultural, iatrogenic, and environmental pollution may have teratogenic or oncogenic influence or may cause neurologic or psychiatric syndromes.
Toxic encephalopathy (TE) is the result of the interaction of a chemical compound with the brain. Disturbance of normal brain function is caused by:
1. depletion of oxidative energy;
2. nutritional deprivation affecting nerves and
neurons;
3. exposure to foreign material which may be
a. exogenous in origin,
b. generated within the central nervous
system, or
c. generated within the body;
4. derangement of neurotransmission;
5. altered ion balance;
6. antigenic activity.
The list of examples of toxic encephalopathy is long and reflects the real difficulty in recognizing that slow deterioration of neurologic functions indicates poisoning by a toxin.
Hi Cleangreen, my uncle had severe lead poisoning, as a plumber, and parkinsons in later life. He had chelation therapy and lived a further 15 years.
Hi Patricia yes so do I have chelation also.
The sad part was I was not covered by chelation in Canada or NZ so I still pay today for it but it is great also for unblocking arteries also for those who’ve high blood pressure or heavy arterial plague as it works like a drain cleaner too.
Glad your dad lived longer and we need the NZ Medical services to use these less invasive and less costly treatments.
The Germans are well known for their cleverness to treat their people and chelation was invented by them in 1946 after the armament workers in Germany also fell sick after ‘heavy metal poisoning’, so our health folks here in NZ can’t say it doesn’t work can they?
Hell, what a terrible thing to happen! You wrote unventilated, so do you mean the poison entered through your lungs? If so, were you the only one there affected like this? Science can’t explain why some folks prove susceptible to shit when others in identical circumstances are unaffected, eh? Was the actual chemical that caused it identified?
Friday the 15th.
We who have inhaled the long white cloud
To dream upon its hills
Do you remember then the call to peace
To embrace our Mother Earth
Recall
Vanity that sobered us owning
Them then this and these
Concerns
As fences were erected
Property
Boundaries of our souls
Each conquest is a limitation
More we must control
And fences get erected
Boundaries to our souls
We added letters to our names engaged
In furious debate
To justify the child who died
For greed and selfish hate
Then pompously we strutted
Out of touch and growing old
Angry little white men
Bounded by black souls.
Just got back from Kilbirnie Mosque. Very heartening to see the large numbers of people who turned out. I’m not good on estimating numbers, but certainly high 100s, if not more. I’d say more, maybe there’ll be something in the media later. It was a bit disappointing that those of us not near the Mosque were unable to hear the call to prayer, I thought perhaps it might be said over a loudspeaker today, but in the scheme of things it’s not important. It’s that we were there.
RNZ just said it was 1000s. I shouldn’t even try to guess at crowd sizes 🙂
True Kay, I watched on TV, as I am not driving again yet. A huge crowd in the main service. Very moving.
The Editorial Board of the New York Times;
‘America deserves a Leader as Good as Jacinda Ardern’
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/opinion/new-zealand-ardern.html
America can bloody well prove it.
America is prove? There stands a need for some one to step into the void and repair trust and empathy. If you can strip away the jargon and see what’s going on underneath all the chaos and self deception, the concepts become really easy to understand. And once concepts become easy to understand then normal people can understand these really complex economic, forign affairs and financial shenanigans going on in Merica.
You reap what you sow and America has the bigly leader it deserves and who will MAGA after he’s drained that swamp …
Cartoon depicting ‘Toxic Tribalism’, a term gaining popularity.
I’ve read a few of the articles and though some were good, none were so succinct as this image I found in one.
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1000/1*VToE6EbINdU40YkI8j7hiw.jpeg
I remember the ‘wireless’ on a Sunday morning at 9am. The church service of the day began and the wireless went into ‘off’ mode. As a small child I also remember the death of King George 6th. They played funeral music all day for days on end. It was so gloomy and doomy I remember being frightened.
Ignore above. Duplicate. Don’t know how it happened. 😕
Angry Male Syndrome plus Methamphetamine = F&#k Up
Agree @ Skunk ………… so what would you prescribe other than a cyanide tablet?
I reckon maybe 50 migs of largactil with breakfast plus nightly oestrogen injections.
Waddya reckon? after a few weeks …… the patient will look like Donald Trump with tits and a shrivelled up dick. That should do it eh?
Gerard Otto’s contribution.
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/03/22/guest-blog-gerard-otto-begrudging-jacinda/
In the same vein:
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/3/21/jacinda_ardern_shows_trump_what_leadership
This is us Maori have been masacared in our hundreds Men Wahine tamariki to we are treaded like dirt and the power that be steer into te matariki and DENIE THIS REALITY.
Māori leaders critique ‘this is not us’ sentiment
Links below ka kite ano
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018687539/maori-leaders-critique-this-is-not-us-sentiment P.S ITs minuplation when one search engine can not find storys on MAORI
Former Gloriavale man family dies in crash leaving he had all his other members divert the course of justice the police did not get to see him till the next day he was drink driving and killed his family in a truck crashed into a tree he got off this CULT Has more power than the whole of the Maori RACE .They have there christian members RUNNING THE POLICE FORCE IN New Zealand REDNECKS Christians looking at Maori Cultures as spitting at US that is quite plan for Eco Maori to SEE.
I have been SITTING on this Story for a few years TIME IS NOW TO let you know whats is happening in New Zealand.
A great Maori Man gets conned into doing wrong what does the UNJUSTICE SYSTEM do to this great MAORI MAN they lock him up and he dies in JAIL WTF an white man kills his family he a Gloriavale man he gets off scott FREE linls below ka kite ano
Māori leader, academic and businessman Sir Ngātata Love has died.
Love, 81, died peacefully at his Korokoro home on Wednesday last week, surrounded by loving whānau.
Born in Lower Hutt, Love was a powerful advocate for Māori throughout the lower North Island, working with various groups on Waitangi Tribunal claims and land issues He was a professor in business studies, managed the Wellington Tenths Trust and the Palmerston North Māori Reserve Land Trust, and served terms as chief executive of Te Puni Kokiri and the Ministry of Māori Development. P.S The unjustice system broke his Mana Wairua Eco Maori will never let them do that to me thanks to my tipunas
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12146989
I a Anglican church member my Mama took me to church every Sunday when she was alive.
The Anglican Church works with Maori Culture unlike some that just try and extinguish Maori culture Mauri Mana Wairua
https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
https://youtu.be/Yd2T3o-Ybow
Eco Maori does not champion violence I say Peter Toshs song means the good leftys from around te Papatuanuku must stand up and take CONTROL OF OUR FUTURES.
Kia ora Newshub Ka pai to the 3 tamariki who organisationed a march for LOVE that’s how we should treat EVERYONE like how you would your kuia grandmother.
Good on Winston to go to Istanbul to smove the WAI with their tangata.
‘I” The big tech companies need to do there best to keep the haters in check so they can not use there platforms to generate MORE HATE.
Its getting hot in there USA that is.
It might be calm in your neck of the woods boy but the sandflys are attaking my WHANAU anyway they can dream up get a tissue. Ka kite ano P.S
Kia ora Te ao Maori News I have commented on the Aroha I thank them. You want the truth about gangs the sandflys nerture them they breed gangs to put down te tangata whenua O Atoearoa Mana and Wairua into the dirt and you wankers are helping them some of the ones put on camera are getting there profiles cleaned so that the ASSETS NARKS can help the sandflys lock up more innercint Maori I know that for a FACT. The unjustified system made gang as a weapon against Maori. I say this but I will still treat te tangata with respect because they don’t get the big picture Eco Maori gets it Ka kite ano
PS not all gangs are caught in the white man hinaki I no what they look like
https://youtu.be/QAB6aXOfUmU
Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
https://youtu.be/h4DFXUndvbw