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Open Mike 22/01/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 22nd, 2017 - 79 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

79 comments on “Open Mike 22/01/2017 ”

  1. Andre 1

    Colbert on fire. Finally I’ve learned what length a tie should be tied at.

  2. Paul 2

    Stacey Herbert and Max Keiser on fire. I learnt why the Democrats lost the US election.

  3. Paul 3

    George Galloway is on fire.
    Listen to the first 12 minutes to hear his view of Trump, his speech and the demise of Obama. These are views you do not hear in the neoliberal mainstream media.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1PjSpkPss

    • garibaldi 3.1

      Everyone’s on fire.

    • He does provide a fine example of Andre’s point the other day, about how some on the loonier fringes of the left would rather see a right-wing nationalist demagogue win power and implement a policy prescription big on racism, sexism and destruction of the environment, than see an insufficiently-left member of a centre-left party get the job. The convergence of extreme left and extreme right is approaching 1930s levels.

      • garibaldi 3.2.1

        “an insufficiently-left member of a centre left party” is third way (Blairism) and is a proven disaster. Your scale goes straight from Blairism to ‘extreme’ left. I don’t see any calls for that, I only see a growing call for a return to the Left, which you conveniently leave out.

        • Psycho Milt 3.2.1.1

          I “conveniently” left out a “return to the left,” as there were only two candidates on the ballot with any chance of success and neither represented the left (hardly surprising in a country far more conservative and right-wing-oriented than New Zealand). Referring to those two candidates, Galloway, a fine representative of the loonier fringes of the left, says it’s better that the right-wing nationalist demagogue got the job than that the fairly ordinary Democrat nominee should have it. I find that significant – don’t you?

          • garibaldi 3.2.1.1.1

            No. It comes down to your definition of “loonier fringes of the Left”.
            Don’t forget that we, and the Democrats, have under-estimated just how much people did not want “more of the same” as offered by Clinton.

            • Psycho Milt 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Some of them so not wanted more of the same under Clinton that they elected (either actively by voting for him or passively by not voting) someone far worse. So the question is, are those people indistinguishable from fascists or just idiots? Galloway isn’t a voter in US elections, but his declaration of preference for Trump invites the same question about him – and in his case, I’m genuinely not sure which it is. Possibly both.

              • garibaldi

                “someone far worse”. That is going to be hard to prove because Hillary will not get to deliver her very questionable brand of “Pax Americana” ( which is the same as the Republicans version anyway!).

                • Well, yes, for the left’s nutcase element there’s no way the actual, really-existing unpleasantness that Trump is about to unleash on the USA will be able to compete with their bizarre fantasies about “Killary,” “Crooked Hillary” etc. However, those of us in the reality-based community are able to spot the difference between a fairly typical Democrat presidential candidate and a Tangerine Nazi Rapeclown. It’s instructive that so many on the extreme left prefer the latter.

                  • reason

                    And did you mention nazis ????

                    New Zealand is supporting them as part of the Ukraine violent Coup …. where Nazis get in power….. with a bit of death before hand …. and heaps afterwards

                    U.s.a sponsored and Clinton endorsed of course …..

                    They care not who they kill

              • reason

                racism, sexism and destruction of the environment …..

                Are you describing what Hillary brought to Libya ????

                She was afraid of NOT being able to wage ….

                ” the Clinton emails reveal one other important fact – that before and during the NATO conflict, Clinton and her team knew very well, and actually feared, that the conflict in Libya might very well have been resolved through negotiations;” …

                ” Clinton shunned such efforts, instead preferring a war, despite its quite predictably horrible consequences, which would give the U.S. and its allies the hand they wanted in the future of Libyan and African affairs.”

                Hillary prevailed as we all know ……….. The results have been very bad for blacks, women, children, family’s… and human rights for the people of Libya ..

                “…, before the war, Libya had less of its population in poverty than the Netherlands. Libyans had access to free health care, education, electricity and interest-free loans, and women had great freedoms that had been applauded by the U.N. Human Rights Council in January 2011, on the eve of the war that destroyed the government. ….”

                And now ?.?, ?”Control and crucifixions: Life in Libya under IS”
                http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35325072

                War propaganda from clinton and co was used as justification for reprisals and ethnic cleansing of blacks ,,, “US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton added fuel to the fire by saying she was “deeply concerned” that Gaddafi’s troops were participating in widespread rape in Libya. “Rape, physical intimidation, sexual harassment, and even so-called ‘virginity tests’ have taken place..,”.

                But others not pushing for wars of aggression say otherwise ….

                Amnesty International crisis researcher, Donatella Rovera: “We examined this issue in depth and found no evidence. The rebels spread these rumours everywhere,…. which had terrible consequences for African guest workers: there was a systematic hunt for migrants, some were lynched and many arrested….”

                Shes quite a woman that Hillary …

                ” the town of Tawergha had been completely eradicated of all its mainly black population by rebels in nearby Misrata, who had marked their signature on the walls to the town: “the brigade for purging slaves, black skin”

                Do we think its racism that makes her such a ‘super-predator’ ???

                Or is she just a psycho like her mentor Kissinger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmOb6DRrLWg

            • Andre 3.2.1.1.1.2

              The rant I’d write if I had the time and the skillz with words…

              Just a taster:
              “I’m sick of seeing people who insist on being willfully ignorant of basic civics and how government works, stunningly myopic of the bigger picture or the greater good, and outright refuse to even consider coalition building, still being catered to like customers at a high end day spa because they’re the either loudest voices in the room or are adept with or active on social media — even if they’re using it to promote laughingly biased fake news.”

              https://medium.com/@sammystyle77/the-nihilistic-purity-of-the-far-left-will-kill-us-all-54169b25e3a8#.rdo17tvj3

    • Wayne 3.3

      Hmm,

      Galloway as a touchstone of sensible political analysis. Probably enough said with that one observation.

  4. Paul 4

    Clean Green New Zealand.

    ‘Swimming has been banned at 10 Auckland beaches this summer because of worsening pollution from human and animal wastes.

    Permanent signs declaring that the water is not safe for swimming went up at the start of summer at Laingholm and Wood Bay near Titirangi, the north and south lagoons at Piha, and at the Bethells Beach lagoon – all popular swimming spots for children too young to swim in the wild west coast surf.

    Auckland Council has now stopped routine monitoring of water quality at all five sites, as well as at five other beaches that already had permanent warning signs – Cox’s Bay, Meola Reef, Weymouth, the Wairau Stream outlet at Milford Beach and Little Oneroa lagoon on Waiheke Island.

    It has also issued temporary health warnings so far this summer at seven of the other 72 beaches that are still monitored.’

    The worst faecal bacteria count, measured at Green Bay on November 16, was 24,200 enterococci in every 100ml of water – 173 times the maximum safe level of 140.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11786380

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11785299

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1

      Auckland eh? What a shithole.

      This has been happening for years…yet the message is…. build more houses!

      Bring in more people! With the extra rates we can fix the infrastructure!

      Stupid.

      • Stunned mullet 4.1.1

        Talking of stupid, have you seen our mayors over the last few decades.

        • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1

          And have you read the above comment?

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2

          Mayors are actually fairly powerless which is a Good Thing as we really don’t want petty dictatorships. But that means that the cities are run by the councillors which are either RWNJs themselves or are scared of the RWNJs call for lowering rates which results in these types of stories happening.

          In other words, the problem is the RWNJs saying that we need to lower rates/taxes and the people actually believing those lies.

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.3

          Stunned mullet
          No I haven’t seen your mayors over the last few decades but I have seen a lot of your short comments and don’t think much of your ability to intelligently critique anything including mayors.

    • Wayne 4.2

      I live at Ngataringa Bay and have been here for 14 years.

      The seawater quality is better now than for many years. The leechate from the old Devonport tip has essentially disappeared.

      I also recall that Takapuna, Cheltenham and the North Shore beaches were regularly closed. This has not happened for years. There has been a huge amount spent on the sewage system that has meant that this almost never happens. The Wairau creek issue will have been much worse in the past.

      So these measures of pollution have no context of time. Sure things could be better, but seawater quality has got progressively better in Auckland over the last 20 years.

      • DoublePlusGood 4.2.1

        There is still no excuse for so many places to be unsafe for swimming. “It could be worse” is the classic canard of the visionless.

      • Gabby 4.2.2

        Those permanent signs must just be a wee jolly prank then. That’s a relief.

      • RedBaronCV 4.2.3

        So your back yard is now fine Wayne ? Oh lucky you living in a rich Nact area. However, the point of the post is that many waterways are deteriorating beyond clean up point and the council does not have the funds to do anything about it.

        Another product of Nact’s “let’s load Auckland up with people” and “the rest of the country with cows”.
        So as the party of everyone needs to be responsible for themselves – how about your lot taking some personal responsibility for their poor personal choices here which are impacting on the rest of us and are going to cost heaps to fix?

        And why aren’t the cost of these choices going into silly old Bill English’s social investment modeling as money the taxpayers will have to spend to clean up after the righties?? It’s going to dwarf the cost of the people he is hounding

        • RedBaronCV 4.2.3.1

          Oh and I forgot to mention – if an earlier bunch of rightie’s had had their way then there would be no Ngataringa Bay – they were going to fill it in. Lucky for you Wayne that the left & environmentalist’s fought back and won. Your lot were wrong and the left was right.

        • Wayne 4.2.3.2

          The point I am making is that such things have to be viewed in a context.

          Our beaches, right across Auckland, are much better than they were 20 years ago.

          Watercare is spending enormous amounts of money so that they will continue to improve.

          For instance the relatively new sewage system on the Manukau is vastly better than the huge ponds that preceded it. There is a whole new round of new construction taking place at the plant to take account of growth and to improve water quality.

          The five spots with permanent signs are a problem. But I know for instance that Wairau creek is substantially better as a result of building the collector tanks, probably now about ten years ago.

          If asked the question,; Is water quality in the harbours continuing to improve” I would say “yes”.

          • RedBaronCV 4.2.3.2.1

            So?? In context the number of places permanently off limits has just doubled. All those extra people – look at the cost of fixing it all. let’s do the social investment modelling shall we?

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.3.2.2

            Our beaches, right across Auckland, are much better than they were 20 years ago.

            No they’re not.

            The five spots with permanent signs are a problem.

            That’s five new spots. There were other spots that had permanent warning signs up before them.

            If asked the question,; Is water quality in the harbours continuing to improve” I would say “yes”.

            Have you got research to back that up?

            Because if you don’t then it’s simply unfounded opinion.

      • ” The leechate from the old Devonport tip has essentially disappeared.”
        Poof! Just like that!

        • weka 4.2.4.1

          lol, that’s what I was thinking. If Auckland has a magic wand, why aren’t they sharing it around, that’s what I want to know. To be fair to Wayne though, he did say it disappeared, not that someone disappeared it, so maybe it’s a local phenomenon.

          • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.4.1.1

            “To be fair to Wayne though, …”

            Why?

            The King of NIMBY and I’m Alright, Jack needs none of us to support his position.

            Wayne…you will just never get it will you?

            You do actually reside in your own little island -in- your -head.

          • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.4.1.2

            “If Auckland has a magic wand….”

            Being a solutions kind of person, maybe the wand can be waved inspiring all of those who really do care about the environment to up stakes and exit the burg.

            En masse.

            Leaving the City of Sails to those who merely seek the kudos of an Auckland address…and they will come, believe me.

            And they can sit with clothes pegs on their noses admiring the sludgy tide as it ebbs and flows over the dead and stinking foreshore.

            If I’m a bit tetchy about this it is because this has been featured in news reports for decades now…heavy rain flooding the stormwater and sewage system and depositing shit on Auckland beaches.

            Not one single extra house or any structure should be allowed until this is sorted. Now.

            Its all very well obtaining a building permit or resource consent on the basis that the developer has met the sewage and stormwater requirements when the actual infrastructure receiving those products can’t cope when it rains heavily.

            Madness.

            If I were living in Auckland I’d be protesting/rioting about this.

        • Wayne 4.2.4.2

          Robert,

          I guess it has literally literally leeched out, or alternatively properly sealed in. The tip was closed about 30 years ago and over about 10 years it was properly sealed. It is now quite a nice park.

          Anyway from my experience of swimming in Ngataringa (I am one of the few who do) I can absolutely testify to the water quality progressively improving. There has been a recovery of fish life. There is less mud, more sand and the mangroves are more healthy.

          I know enough about the rest of North Shore and the Waitemata to also make my observations of water quality. I both sail and fish on it regularly. In the last four weeks, three fishing trips. All with 4 or 5 snapper typically caught over a 2 hour period.

          So from what I see the harbour is actually pretty good. Not perfect, but not deteriorating and at least on the North Shore, improving.

          Sorry that the rest of you can only ever see a glass half empty.

          • Robert Guyton 4.2.4.2.1

            Wayne – I was unable to respond yesterday; all glitched up with WordPress;
            Your anecdotal comments are fair enough, in the way that everyone else’s are, but the science, represented by the warning signs mentioned earlier, tell a more reliable story. It was a bit churlish of you, I thought, to typify “the rest of us” as only ever seeing a glass half empty. That particular phrase seems to be favoured by a certain kind of person; those who laud our “100% pure rivers” by comparing them with China’s much worse rivers. Claiming that we’d be “half-empty glassers” if we believe the rivers now are far from their best, simply because you can remember them when they were even worse, is a similarly deluded, imo. As to the leachate from the landfill you cite, years of leaking and the debatable quality of the engineering of containment systems don’t have me breathing a sigh of relief over any of the tip-sites we’ve created over the past 100 years.

  5. HDCAFriendlyTroll 5

    President Donald J Trump: It all begins today.

    Indeed it does Mr President. And godspeed Mr President, godspeed.

    • garibaldi 5.1

      If your god is on the side of Trump then it just reflects how stupid this whole god concept is.
      No-one could claim Trump is a Christian.

      • JanM 5.1.1

        It would be of interest to know what the definition of a Christian is. Is it someone who believes in the idea that Jesus was the son of God etc, etc or that they follow the teachings – because the two do not necessarily go together – frequently don’t, in fact!

  6. Carolyn_nth 7

    It looks like Trumps main financial backers include many mega-wealthy, like Peter Thiel.

    Mattathias Schwartz writes:

    The incoming administration allocated at least a dozen of 183 seats on the inaugural platform to donors and fundraisers, who sat beside cabinet designees, senators, and President Trump’s immediate family. Another 49 seats for the pre-inaugural Friday morning church service, which Trump attended, were allocated to a billionaire fundraiser.

    The documents, which come from the inauguration’s organizing committee, paint a markedly different picture than the one Trump presented during the campaign, that of a swashbuckling populist who would overturn “the rigged system” and drain Washington’s corrupt “swamp” of money-driven influence.

    If these documents are any indication, Trump’s inner circle is shaping up to be even more plutocratic and insular than that of previous presidents.

    In 2013, the New York Times made an incomplete chart showing many of the attendees who were granted platform seats for Barack Obama’s second inaugural. Only two of those among the platform crowd who the Times was able to identify were megadonors—Chris Hughes, the Facebook co-founder, and his husband Sean Eldridge.

  7. The Black Magic debate – are you offended by this logo?
    Should Yates rebrand?
    You’ve heard of Zoo-do, but Voodoo…?

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/88568961/kiwi-gardening-company-defends-black-magic-product-amid-racism-concerns

    • Stunned mullet 8.1

      Must be a slow news day.

    • Gabby 8.2

      It’s as inoffensive as a Thai Hitler restaurant.

    • jcuknz 8.3

      A bigger problem is the way people get upset over things like this and ascribe meanings which in the past were never thought of .. the world is progressively getting more and more idiotic with false sensitivities for political reasons.

      Have you noticed the lamp? which suggests to me an ‘Arabian nights’ fairy tale so it is logical the character will be darker skinned than northern european.
      Latest NZCPC comment by Muriel Newman puts her finger squarely on the problem of PC or political crap.

  8. Nic the NZer 9

    Post on third-way politics. With a bonus, implications of NZ govt meddling in US politics.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=35202

    • Weka might be interested in this part:

      After years of neo-liberal propaganda, what goes for ‘middle-of-the-road’ these days is nothing like the views that would have been considered ‘centrist’ sometime earlier (depicted in my sketch).

      Now the whole continuum has become distorted. The Third Wayers (Blairites) and the rest of the faux progressives have not only dislocated the Political Left from the True Left but also skewed the distribution of views to the right.

      The Political Left is close to where the Right used to sit (the scales on my sketch are meaningful) and as a result, what is now termed ‘centrist’, has shifted dramatically to the right of the distribution.

      The Right is now much more extreme than it used to be (particularly on economic matters).

      TRUE LEFT ———————————————— POLITICAL LEFT——— CENTRIST VIEWS — RIGHT

      Except for a few fringe dwellers in social media the political right in New Zealand is far from extreme. Given that many people claim little real difference between the two larges parties here, National and Labour, and some claim with justification that some Green policy positions (especially environmental) transcend political alignments.

      • Nic the NZer 9.1.1

        Since your trying to claim

        “Except for a few fringe dwellers in social media the political right in New Zealand is far from extreme. ”

        I should point out your simply wrong. Both the political left and right in NZ are wedded to a position adopted by Labour4 that the market, left to its own devices, provides a close to ideal social and political environment (which is responsible for most social goods). That is an extreme position and demonstrably incorrect.

        Weka understands that, BTW.

        • mpledger 9.1.1.1

          I did a binge watch of “The Fugitive” a couple of years ago. Richard Kimble (The Fugitive) lives his life in the USA at the bottom of society, on the margins, so there are shows, in passing, about union troubles and boss/workers troubles. It really shows how far to the right the USA has moved on these issues in just over 50 years.

          (And it’s a really interesting watch for two other reasons:
          1) for how the adults act towards the teenagers of the time (the baby boom generation). It’s like their force of numbers means that the adults perceive them as just inherently troublesome and
          2) for how primitive all the technology was just 50 years ago)

  9. Pat 10

    Our most valuable asset
    Can’t be made, mined or bought
    Is misunderstood,misapplied and disregarded

    https://www.mcc-berlin.net/en/research/co2-budget.html

  10. James 11

    Labour in the U.K. – Corbyn looking to deliver how some of us predicted. (According to their own figures).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/20/exclusive-labour-set-lose-copeland-by-election-partys-canvass/

  11. joe90 12

    But emails!.

    Trump repeated a campaign line that the U.S. should have “kept”‘ Iraq’s oil after the 2003 invasion, saying that might have blocked the rise of the Islamic State. He added: “Maybe we’ll have another chance.” The president again said he opposed the Iraq war, though interviews at the time indicated otherwise.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/21/donald-trump-president-day-two-prayer-service-national-cathedral/96877028/

  12. greywarshark 13

    The Retirement Commissioner is getting airplay for the problems of funding the old age pension (superannuation) giving the large costs which she forecasts to go to 90 billion a year by 2020 I think. There is talk about shifting it up to 67 which is a commonsense way of dealing with it. That there are not enough paid jobs to go round doesn’t enter into it. The Wince department drives people into depression and oppresses and degrades those forced to go on the treadmill who aren’t the right fit for employers and the cold-blooded working -bludgers-being-bludgeoned system is not acknowledged either.

    It’s time to face up to the truth that money is a system of exchangeable tokens. It’s a way to convert credits to a virtually universal transfer system. What is essential to have is food, housing, security, transport, personal care for health, spectacles etc. – that doesn’t change. If retired people can earn credits by doing something that is useful to society then they should be given enough credits from the system to provide for themselves to a decent level. Then any money they manage to earn can be on top of that. Superannuation tax on income would be 5% for the first $20,000 and 40% over that, and all the time there would be no tax on their basic pension.

    Also planned demise will be legalised with a practical, thoughtful system set up that people could choose to ignore, or opt into or out of with set steps to follow, and would apply to all those over 70 and to medical personnel or others. There may be specially designated trained and certificated people to be the dying equivalents of marriage celebrants.

    Instead of top-down policies for older people, with decisions made for them,
    there should be groups holding discussions around the country as to how they should be treated. There are enough capable, mature minds still functioning well and able to absorb facts, discuss financial matters, standards of living, standards of ethical treatment, philosophical and religious aspects.

    Then there is the conflict caused by generational unbalance in numbers and expectations, in political power and experience and the lack of input into society by many wage earners when they retire although receiving much respectful assistance and finance from society on top of any income and assets they hold, which is not equally available to the young vulnerable adult.

    • Nic the NZer 13.1

      Why is the retirement comissioner engaged in undermining entitlements for pensioners? Is that part of her job description? Given the impending boom in demand for services for the retired, should she not be advocating for capacity increases and additional training to relieve inflationary pressures here before they arrise?

  13. greywarshark 14

    My comment about the Retirement Commissioner will probably come up later.
    It’s 12.52 22/1 now. I will put the link to Radionz item of the Commissioner below. I think some have not been able to access this easily. I have found that if the link is put in the subject heading window in a new tab, it goes through okay to the item summary with the listen button at top.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-weekend/audio/201830221/commissioned-retirement-commissioner-diane-maxwell

  14. Tory 15

    Don’t like the result?, Protest
    Don’t like the policies?, Protest
    Got an axe to grind?, Protest

    Yawn, do something useful such as get a job, get a haircut and have a shower….

    [away you go troll, 2 weeks. – weka]

    [2 weeks is Waitangi Day, so better to make it 3 weeks. – weka]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • HDCAFriendlyTroll 15.1

      You forgot to mention yell racism and sexism.

    • korero pono 15.2

      Or lynch mob the arrogant right who like to denigrate and label those who actually give a damn about others!

    • rsbandit 15.3

      This will be a sub-set of the Hilary vote feeling good about themselves but, like the Occupy Movement, achieving no effective change because they are only ever preaching to the converted.

      Rather than making an effort to understand how the people they need to win over think and changing the strategy to fit. Whining and stomping feet ‘aint it.

      Still, I guess some people got some much needed exercise, so it’s not all a waste of time.

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    4 days ago
  • Speech from the throne
    E aku hoa i te ara o te whai, Kia kotahi tā tātou takahi i te kō, ko tōku whiwhi kei tō koutou tautoko mai. Ko tāku ki a koutou, hei whakapiki manawa mōku. He horomata rangatira te mahi, e rite ai te whiwhinga a te ringatuku, me te ringakape ...
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  • Keynote address to Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand conference
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    5 days ago
  • Expert independent advisory group appointed to strengthen the future of Māori broadcasting
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    6 days ago
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    6 days ago
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    7 days ago
  • Speech to Primary Industries Summit
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    7 days ago
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    2 weeks ago
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