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6:00 am, June 24th, 2020 - 92 comments
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Looking at the demands of returning Kiwis. To be honest, they have made the runner when things got tough years back instead of contributing and pulling up the sleeves. Now that the going gets tough at the other end, they come home asking the taxpayer to foot the bill for all their needs. Really?
Well, my vote is now going to Winston, hands down. The only one not espousing political correct nonsense but rather dealing with the obvious. Logic and reason please.
That irony, coming back because we've been so successful in fighting this, yet not willing to help with that fight. Again, grateful to those that are just getting on with it, and all the staff and support people dealing with this, thank you.
Or they could have just been on their OE
Yet waited til now to come back …
I guess the consolation is that a few Student Loan Dodgers will get their comeuppance.
I can remember Winston telling the Kiwis abroad to come back home.
Maybe the military should set up a tent / container city on an isolated island (maybe an unused ex-prison place). No fags, no booze, three meals from a field kitchen. That's the free option for returning Kiwis, otherwise you pay (and complain to) the quarantine hotel management, which is a private business, instead bitching and moaning about the government not providing you champagne and caviar for breakfast.
They probably want first class public government services and tax cuts at the same time.
I agree with that, as I said on another post reopen Somes Island.
Because obviously wealthy 'kiwis' should be able to buy a luxury quarantine.
I know of two New Zealanders that were not able to get to the "rescue" from China, and are still in China, hoping to be able to get to New Zealand in July, depending on flights . . .
The suggestion to return was heeded by a lot of New Zealanders – flights here were filled very quickly, and some may not have heard the warning in time. Certainly we now know there were a very large number of New Zealanders who were not able to get back to NZ at that time.
Or unwilling… when the NZ government took COVID seriously and sent out clear warning signs, most other countries played the impacts of the pandemic down.
While some might have "missed the boat/plane", as you describe, many overseas Kiwis ignored those warning and only now, after so many countries are seriously impacted, they decide to come home.
Also interesting to note, that in the early stages the incoming people would have had to organise their own self-isolation accommodation, either squeeze in with NZ family, pay for rental home or pay for a hotel. So not sure why they seriously expect the government to pay for their 2 week isolation/quarantine luxury hotels (like Stamford, Pullman, Novotel, which cost – when I stayed their last for work – several hundreds of dollars a day!).
But Winston invited them back.
That was a month ago and yes, perhaps the flights are cancelled but some repatriate flights were undertaken.
The point is: Many NZlaenders were going overseas because the grass was greener and they felt they did not get enough money to compensate for their work in their home country. Many were also fleeing the student loan repayments. Some might have gone on an OE.
In all cases – I bluntly refuse to pay for their keep. Full stop, end of story.
I saw, on One News last night, Todd say "it's a national disgrace". The meme must be stuck in his head now: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/419646/covid-19-national-party-demands-answers-on-covid-19-testing-in-isolation
I mused that it was rather unfair of the Nat leader to call National a disgrace when the quarantine shambles was a govt failure. I wonder how many others did likewise. Tricky, these contagious complex memes, they get into peoples heads and do their subversive thing. Perhaps Todd needs a competent media adviser? Oh wait, he's got Hooton for that… 🤩
Muller taking the, 'we don't have to prove it, just trust us' line.
Not sure that will wash with most Kiwis weary of National Party untruths over the last 12 years.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/coronavirus-todd-muller-backs-michael-woodhouse-despite-doubt-over-homeless-man-claim.html
""it's a national disgrace" I see. You mean "its a National disgrace." So right.
mullers one liner reminds me of a protest sign that I've used for a couple of elections… it reads
"nick smith is a national disaster"
Apocalypse now? No. Soon? Maybe – another pandemic, driven by a more contagious bug could do it. Eventually? Yeah, later this century though, so no worries…
Notes from an Apocalypse: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/mark-o-connell-interview-the-notes-from-an-apocalypse-to-be-a-machine-a9578961.html
Sounds like he's got the right idea. The world has always been part imaginal, part real. It's how the psyche operates. To co-create a better world we must first imagine it.
Thankfully the world's remaining centrists, liberals and statists will save us.
Dennis is right, I can’t imagine Hell on Earth without gatekeepers to keep a lid on things the way they are. If not for them, all Hell would break loose.
Has it not broken loose?
Ain't seen nothing yet. Plenty left behind that could still break loose.
Corin Dann doing a good job on Morning Report right now asking Muller why the border control system is broken when NZ has no community transmission at all. Muller floundering.
National’s problem is that they are attacking border controls that, by and large, are working very well.
Chris Trotter’s latest article on Bowalley Road is very odd where it attacks Labour’s performance and supports National’s hollow claims. Talk about over-egging it.
Ahh no they weren't that's why JA put the military in charge, sorted now.
We have consistent themes; strong leadership from JA, DP and media assisted spin from national.
Woodhouse and his politics over people needs to be held accountable on behalf of honest kiwis if nothing else…..rip open the deception.
Note the "are working very well"…..earlier for a short period they were slow to implement the 3-day and 12-day testing but without military involvement I think this would have happened anyway.
So there was a small window where border controls were less-than-adequate but (as you say tc) this was quickly fixed. (Megan Woods was superb on Morning Report yesterday).
Muller and Woodhouse are whinging about controls that have prevented any community transmission-that is the acid test.
If Muller is floundering all it proves is that he is a git.
The fact remains that the significant number of people who left isolation without a test followed by the amount of time taken to find out what happened and source the data is an appalling failure and we've escaped another outbreak by good luck rather than good management.
There must be no more failures of this nature and i'm certainly pleased that the Minister Woods is now in charge from an oversight perspective rather than the Minister of Health.
Agree totally about Woods-she is a safe pair of hands. But the "appalling failure" line is the media's beat-up take on the situation-see my posts above.
You are correct in that. But nowadays perception prevails over reality much of the time, and the media are driven more by perception. Reality bores too many media consumers. They need more than that. So beat-ups get produced by human nature.
There’s also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
So 90% of journos will always be crap. Labour MPs likewise. Nat MPs? More than 95%. 😎
Agreed Dennis. Siouxsie Wills is doing a good job of putting the issue in perspective on Morning Report right now-well worth a listen.
Be assured it is an appalling failure if this kind of stuff up had occurred in a secondary healthcare setting think missing this many cancers etc … there would be hell to pay.
"This many cancers"
And how many is that?
🙄
If cancers were contagious.
Are you retarded ?
Wash your mouth out.
National knew there was no testing pre the move to Level 1 and argued for a move to Level 1 long before this was done – they are empty suits.
National say they would be more competent but the faulty repairs to houses in the Canterbury earthquake show National would be worse.
The report shows most repairs were as bad as the leaky homes another National failure.
Woodhouse should put up or shut up!
Natz more compeent.
HUH
Remember when the NATZ back in feb? wanted
To Have a bonfire of regulations
AND
Tax cuts.
And NZ should open the borders to foster trade and allow thousands of students in.
Tens of thousands of students
In ODT today headline "quarantine possible in south island" or something and mentions hotels in Queenstown, & Queenstown mayor saying "I don't think so" (paraphrased), so fuk knows what National are on about.
It’s quite odd, Jim Boult, Queenstown Lakes Mayor, was all in favour of overseas students coming into town and doing their 14 days quarantine in Queenstown a couple of weeks ago.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/quarantine-students-queenstown-plan-backedhttps://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/quarantine-students-queenstown-plan-backed
In this morning's interviews Muller doubled down on the Woodhouse claims. He backed his MP so strongly that he can't now separate his own leadership from the allegations. (A more experienced leader would say "he's just asking the questions" or similar waffle, keeping his distance).
If he has evidence that Woodhouse is right, then Muller gets a win. If he doesn't then he is shooting himself in the foot, for no political gain. There are enough real issues with quarantine for National to focus on. They don't need to be making them up.
Surely the easiest way to show that Woodhouse is right is to comply with Wood request.
Woodhouse has backed himself and Muller into a corner, you are right, the only way out now is to comply because Woodhouse already looks slippery as an eel and it's all downhill from here if he tries weasal words again. In one sense I hope they front up with proof it happened, to demonstrate they don't have the best interests of the public in mind at all and are only interested in the political game.
The picture National is trying to paint is that the quarantine system is like a revolving door and people can just walk in and out as they please, all on the Taxpayers’ expense, while having unprotected kisses and cuddles.
Right or wrong, Labour should be pushing the issue of the expense Woodlouse is putting the public to with his coyness.
National’s homeless person is a variation of their bene bashing theme, a no-hoper bottom-dweller who hacked the system and got something from the Taxpayer that they’re not entitled to without harsh consequences. JC would crush their carton board home, dirty old sleeping bag and all, with a swamp Kauri log covered in milk powder.
The story is a dead cat on the table unless the homeless person is a super spreader, which makes no sense because they have just self-isolated for 14 days in a posh hotel. I’ve heard that those isolation hotels are almost as posh as our prisons. Can somebody please ask National how much it costs per day to be in prison?
I hope they’ll find the homeless person and lock them up in prison. That’ll teach them what welfare is for: hardworking law-abiding citizens who find themselves in trouble through no fault of their own.
I may be wrong but wasn’t the original story based on the person in question not being able to provide an address when leaving isolation. That doesn’t mean they were a homeless person who walked off the street. They may genuinely not have known where they were going to be staying once released if they hadn’t lived in NZ for a while. With friends, family, or they needed a rental. I have family who moved back before lockdown who have been staying at multiple addresses while they work out where they will stay permanently.
If so, the story has morphed somewhat. As stories do. There was a children's game where everyone sat in a circle and the starter whispered something to the person on one side who then repeated the whisper to the child on their other side & so on. When it reached around the circle back to the source the message is never the same as it was.
Assuming Woodhouse is spinning it deliberately seems unfair. However if there was a Nat-sympathiser in the chain of messaging between him and the departmental source, or if that source was a Nat voter, spin becomes understandable.
Seems perfectly fair to assume a woodlouse doesn't change its stripes.
The claim was that the person was not entitled (or presumably required!) to go into isolation but tagged along behind some people who had come from a flight to quarantine, and was given a room. Whether they were prepared to give an address when leaving is another matter entirely. Woodhouse needs to give his sources of information, or be seen as a liar.
Here is another one calling for perspective and good on Gehan Gunasekara:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/06/24/1245867/well-need-that-red-tape-if-we-want-to-beat-covid?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=e74bfd9258-Daily+Briefing+23.6.20_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-e74bfd9258-95522477
Yes, good piece.
The new National leadership have been unclear about how much of the baggage they inherited from Bridges/Bennett is still their party's policy.
But we have to assume it still is, unless they tell us it's been dumped. So National still want to have a "bonfire of red tape", and scrap 2 rules for every new one.
Muller on Morning Farce this morning claimed that no evidence that anything actually happened did not mean that there was no evidence that something did happen. On that logic we should just bin the entire Justice system because Everything Did Happen. Or as the greatest philosopher of our time Walter Sobchak in The big Lebowski opines " Say what you like about National (ist ) Socialism Dude, at least it was an ethos ", meaning Todd is obliquely advocating that we should go straight to the firing squad anytime anybody says anything about anybody else.
And of course Universities should bring in overseas students immediately because they have plenty of Houses of Residence where they can isolate them. I'm 71 but I would be joining the thousands of students in the streets protesting that one, should be more fun than the 60s.
Remember those stories a while back about how Ardern was damaging NZ's relationship with Australia? That our reputation would suffer, across the Tasman?
Let's ask the Australians how that panned out …
https://poll.lowyinstitute.org/charts/confidence-in-political-leaders
"So-called flying rivers are prevailing winds that pick up water vapor exhaled by forests and deliver rains to distant water basins."
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/controversial-russian-theory-claims-forests-don-t-just-make-rain-they-make-wind?
Good to see this. Science is ruled more by convention than discovery – resistance to Gaia remains entrenched in the establishment.
This is paradigm-shifting research, so expect resistance from scientists who need proof to shift them. They will await replication.
I recall being taught the physics of atmospheric convection cells (but recall no details) so it's easy for me to intuitively accept this new paradigm. It deepens our grasp of how Gaia operates as a global system. Then just factor in all the emerging evidence of airborne bacterial flows in the upper levels and you will find it increasingly difficult to retain the old science view that only parts matter. Rejection of whole systems has become increasingly untenable with the rise of the science of complexity.
Agreed. Nice response, Dennis. My fellow councillors were somewhat less forthcoming with encouraging words 🙂
Would be a waste of time telling them that even dinosaurs can dance. Would be fun watching them try to process that though! 🤣
There are 'pineapple expresses' everywhere aloft. This summer's Fiordland flooding event, for example. In fact multiple floods in recent times on the West Coast.
Thanks, very interesting. Just described those deriving from Hawaii & northern hemisphere consequences though. Would be good to read the equivalent backgrounder for the effects in Aotearoa you mentioned eh?
I learnt about coriolis during my student days (physics grad) & it derives from global symmetry, but there's more to weather production than the spin of the planet. Land imbalance: more in the north than south. So weather becomes regional in consequence. Dunno how hemispherical assymetry affects/produces upper atmosphere flows…
How interesting. Making rain, making wind. What makes the wind blow?
Hanging washing this morning on a still winter's sunny morning. I played with the idea of making wind so as to get my washing dry and swept the rotary clothes line round and repeated, then change direction. When it stopped the clothes were moving slightly in a small breeze. By creating a small vortex could I affect the weather I wondered. Just a thought.
Looked up wind related things on google. Some of what I found:
For idle reading and learning this stack exchange post about USA parts, calling a very cold wind 'the hawk' is a great example of exchanging info about history and culture and knowledge from the past.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/481458/origin-of-the-saying-the-hawk-is-out
New ideas called for in the green economy – this one, what to do with old wind turbines.
https://www.politico.eu/article/small-old-wind-towers-make-for-big-new-problems 2018
and
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51325101 What happens to all the old wind turbines? 2020
This on google was interesting – ebook. "The Botanical Lore of the California Indians: with Side Lights on Historical …By John Bruno Romero"
On weather – folk lore: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/22-old-weather-proverbs-that-are-actually-true/
Interesting on google: ‘The Lore of New Mexico by Marta Weigle and Peter White’
Apparently there was a Little Ice Age between 1450-1850 and that affected New Mexico and resulted in some extreme weather conditions. Studying those and how they dealt with them could be informative for now – my thought.
Publisher:Albuquerque : University of New Mexico Press, ©2003.
At the Victoria University of Wellington, Kelburn Library.
"I played with the idea of making wind so as to get my washing dry and swept the rotary clothes line round and repeated, then change direction."
Do I have the solution for you @Grey!
You just line the current crop of the National Party up adjacent to your clothesline and get them to let loose. Votices and directional changes come naturally
OwT That would require a sheep dog of enormous size and skill. And they would prove to have hollow lungs, even without Covid-19 they would run out of puff, useless puffters.
By the way, in your memory, have you heard of a contraption that can be put on a rotary clothes line to create air movement for faster drying. I think it was based on a spring attached to the line, that stretches and retracts which keeps the line going back and forth. I feel that some nifty craftsman in his shed once came up with that.
"useless puffters" – sailing a bit close to the wind there, but I like your style.
Don't be a wimp DMK -it's tiring that some are always looking for something to find fault with.
I was pleased to hear that killing people during rough sex is something that is going to be made illegal in Britain – now that was something to complain about.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018751998/uk-to-ban-rough-sex-gone-wrong-should-new-zealand-follow
You've ‘outed‘ me Grey; I am indeed a wimp, although I can be persuaded to 'get in behind' just causes.
MoT have just put put a note saying that Cabinet have failed to agree on a light rail decision, so it will be put to the next government.
Part of me says that sanity has prevailed, the other part says OMG another transport non-delivery.
Bloody Winston …
what would the Labour Party do without 'bloody winston'? Maybe try harder to get consensus? lol
Among others:
– The senior NZSuperfund execs who actively sabotaged the NZTA proposal.
– Twyford for entertaining the alternative in the first place
– Treasury for not stomping all over this with boots
– Infrastructure Commission for being conspicuously silent
– MoT and DPMC for not smacking heads together well before it got to the Cabinet table.
and of course…
– The Greens for getting smashed on a key transport issue, again
It's a big loss for the thousands who would have been employed on the job as well.
Rome wasn't built in a day @Micky. It might have been quicker to have just given him a knighthood along with his BFF in the last QB Honours list, and an offer of some prestigious pozzy on the Whurl stage representing lil 'ole NuZull that punches above its weight.
As far as a quick, 'efficient and effective' option in this space going forward, I'm still not sure why we're not looking/haven't looked at alternative options for passenger travel from that bustling international metropolis of Orcas to the Earport.
Such as maybe getting on with 3rd railing where existing geography allows, and things like Tramtrains – off the heavy rail network at say Papatoetoe, down Wylie Road and then Puhinui Road. Bob's your Auntie. The freight stuff can come later after we've worried ourselves silly considering every other conceivable option.
Could even work in places like Dunners City and points north to Dunners Mosgiel Earport. Even Lyttleton and/or Rolleston to Christ's Church Earport.
Might even work work elsewhere – the Puke via Tearanga to points north.
Patience! These things take time!!
Great OwT, you should have been writing the reports for this matter.
Seeing nothing was ever going to happen about it, at least the participants could have had a laugh and some lively discussion. And it may have actually led to some really practical ideas. I understand the light rail was going to decimate the shopping areas it went through so that would not have been positive, going forward.
DCC councillors have actually been looking at commuter rail over the recent few years. Apparenlty the delay is because schedulling a trial between heavy freight seasons needs to be done precisely, because it will have to use the main trunk line for the initial mosgiel/dunners (possibly not even palmerston) route
It is not only Winston’s fault…the Nats should be backing this too…look at the fantastic light-rail system they have put in in recent years in Sydney
Light rail in Sydney.
https://sydneylightrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/
In image I'm viewing it has a wide area – two trains can pass side by side there is a vehicle lane each side; one has one lane plus along kerb parking and the other has two lanes plus a wide red area presumably for cycles, mobility carts.
Wikpedia on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail_in_Sydney
OK Winston you classic Boomer. You've had some good moments and some not so good.
https://twitter.com/kylemacd/status/1275575719838355457?s=21
This Australian farmers initiative is raising funds and worth supporting. It's one of the few positive things coming out of Australia at present. As all of we townies know, farmers are all-knowing and custodians of the land and wouldn't do anything that would harm it, wouldn't make sense would it?
However there may be some farmers who aren't really aware of what they could do better. I think that Australians are getting behind this group with new practices that they have proved work, and so are becoming more effective and more sustainable. Why they may become better at farming than we are, and burst that happy little thought bubble that has been floating above NZ heads for yonks.
So find out what they are doing, the farming fraternity in both countries may yet be able to turn around and adopt better ways that allow them to last out long droughts and high temperatures – Australians farming inland know about those, and we have had a regional taste in recent years.
https://themullooninstitute.org/donate
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxwJWXQcJfqjJtSqLfBhdBNMPwJD
It's drawing people in to tell the story. So why not take the opportunity to listen?
https://themullooninstitute.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsJjHtfJv1c
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1woTLy4m2uw
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRPsS_Y36zM
Woodhouse gets clobbered in Parliament at Question Time and starts to backtrack. This, only hours after Muller was on TV insisting Woodhouse was telling the truth.
It is simply not good enough to shrug and "move on", the media have happily spread the lie, now they need to follow it up and spread the facts.
They seem to be saying that the info came from inside the Health Department. A good exchange of question and answer on QT today ridiculing Woodhouse included across the whole 3minutes. of Q5
https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=213277
Maybe Muller has a deep laid plan to basically kneecap Woodhouse. He keeps supporting him until the allegations prove false then he dumps on him hard, moves him down list places, out of shadow roles etc. Does Woodhouse belong to the same Nact faction as Muller or is he on the far right Judith Collins side?
Popcorn is toasting.
I look forward on labour campaigning on how they can deliver ….. anything they promise.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
At least ya won't get spaghetti and pineapple.
Tbh, I'd settle for Labour and National not campaigning on lies.
Find the $11.7 billion fiscal hole – come on boy, find it!
https://thestandard.org.nz/about-the-7-5-billion-surplus/
Nice to see you again James. You know better than to troll my posts though.
edit
Dear me.
But is Britain’s sensible, silent majority now awakening from its slumber? Could it be that Poole and Oxford are the first signs of a great conservative fightback?…Sensible small-c conservatism is the prevailing view in Britain – the Tories must not forget this
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/11/poole-oxford-seeing-first-stirrings-silent-majority/
There are some statues toppled which I think should be thought about rather than Taliban-like torn down in a flurry. But while Conservatives are rallying themselves for a cause, could they do something about the inroads that neolib is having on the UK lower class? If they have a vestige of pride and care for their fellow citizens in their great country, then employ it on behalf of those suffering very poor conditions and treatment from govt.
Further from UK.
First they came for Little Britain and I shrugged and said: “Fair enough, I suppose – although they could have just edited out the dodgy sketches and left the rest.”…
Yes, a week of Black Lives Matter-inspired purging of British comedies featuring white performers in blackface has reached its nadir with news that “The Germans” episode of Fawlty Towers has been removed from UKTV’s archives.
It’s a move as misguided as Basil Fawlty mounting a stuffed moose head on the wall or thrashing his Austin Countryman with a tree branch….
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/ze-germans-can-see-joke-fawlty-towers-earth-cant/
Kia Ora
Newshub.
Learning more about Aotearoa history.
Drones spotting Sharks it's cool how new technologies changes the Papatuanuku..
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Te Ao Maori Marama.
Its good to see more Wahine Shearing the leadership roles.
Cartoons being made in Te reo is good.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
The Am Show.
That's great.
Duncan you can't count.
The Labour lead government has handled the virus issues much better than the previous government could dream of.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Newshub.
A tornado wow.
That's good to hear Tova.
That's the way welcome home be kind.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Te Ao Maori Marama.
I just hope Maori journalists get more putea for their mahi.
Toi tu toi ora contemporary art looks awesome is is great to see more Maori toi.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora
Newshub.
Yes lawyers can chew through the cash in litigation cases.
That's is cool the timelaps video of the Sun.
Ka kite Ano