Open mike 24/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 24th, 2023 - 114 comments
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114 comments on “Open mike 24/11/2023 ”

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  1. Descendant Of Smith 1
    24 November 2023 at 6:42 am

    As we gear up for what I suspect will be a non-sensical three years of slogans and fake reality time to re-watch Adam Cutis's hypernormalization doco.

  2. Patricia Bremner 2
    24 November 2023 at 7:44 am

    Looking at the photo of the Parliamentary Stage with 9 flags a V shaped seating pattern and the lectern/podium, one is reminded of "Let the TRUMPets sound".

    So Chief Pirate, Lord Luxon will proclaim.

    Let the Raiding begin….

    and the tide begin to go back out on his 3 patched raggle-taggle ship of state, as we are presented with the motley crew and a list of their victims.

    • ianmac 2.1
      24 November 2023 at 9:30 am

      But Patricia. Peter Dunne says this about our new illustrious PM.

      He (Luxon)will need to quickly recapture the decisive, professional, crisp, and competent style he portrayed during the election campaign…

      You/we just misread the PM's delivery.

      https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/23/luxons-challenge-is-stamping-his-authority-on-new-government/?utm_source=Newsroom&utm_campaign=f4cb0c5c70-Daily_Briefing+24.11.2023&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-f4cb0c5c70-95522477&mc_cid=f4cb0c5c70&mc_eid=88a3081e75

    • AB 2.2
      24 November 2023 at 9:34 am

      The ugly retreat from modernity begins on Monday. I hope the kids notice.

      • Corey 2.2.1
        24 November 2023 at 5:18 pm

        Doubtful as gen z seems to be the opposite of gen y and lean more libertarian.

        If anything politics is becoming for all generations, male vs female.

        The left globally have absolutely lost the ability to speak to male voters, but the right still gets enough female voters to win elections.

        Labour and the greens got bugger all votes from heterosexual males.

        The left have abandoned collectivist equity based universal social democratic economic policies and replaced them with factional oppression Olympics identity politics.

        Since the 2016 usa election, all the global left seems to do is scream about patriarchy, all men being rapists (hey marama), decolonization, lgbt+, race, abstract post modern theories of privilege, attack free speech and try to deplatform anyone they disagree with…

        Totally unappealing.

        And the left has no good male role models anymore, it's all very very very academic wine sipping nerds with no spine.

        If the left had any brains it'd have the charismatic, young bogan Kieren Mcnullty as leader of the Labour party and seek out as many candidates like him as possible, he is the only candidate in Labour I can see winning over male voters and Labour needs a lot more of people like him and a lot less upper middle class robot professional student politicians

        • AB 2.2.1.1
          24 November 2023 at 6:00 pm

          I think there's a fair bit of caricature and exaggeration in how you say that – but I agree with much of the underlying sentiment. I'd note though that the real poseurs now drink craft beer, rather than sipping wine, and it's the right that are the most notorious cancelers of unwelcome opinion, not the left.

        • SPC 2.2.1.2
          24 November 2023 at 8:12 pm

          You've drunk all the kool aid produced by the right wing narrative about the left as a feminist project – it's not a surprise that gay men are as vulnerable to it as some working class men (a privileged place in society over – as per women is all they had/have).

          The thing is they also connect it to being a feminist socialist project – as per Perigo (the libertarian against a society order in either the personal life or economics) and onto Bridge.

  3. Peter 3
    24 November 2023 at 9:27 am

    A radio person in Auckland finished today and gets to have a goodbye in the Herald.

    Kate Hawkesby comments on the awesome responsibility. "I’ll never forget when the Queen died and my producer just said in my ear, ‘The Queen’s dead’, that was it.It was just this surreal moment of, ‘Whoa, I have to communicate this breaking news’."

    Yep, that's up there with brain surgery.

    "The media landscape has changed drastically since I began. The insatiable 24/7 demand for clicks and content has, I believe, seen quality suffer," she says. Well, bugger me, that's a surprise. And to give context praises her husband with close reference to the previous government and Covid.

    Regularly MediaWatch on RNZ featured his distortions, the 180° switcheroos and all over the shop logic with him. Quality suffer? What?

    • Patricia Bremner 3.1
      24 November 2023 at 4:26 pm

      A victim of a very bad bout of lingering covid, she modified his statements to a degree.

  4. Bearded Git 4
    24 November 2023 at 9:28 am

    Far Right PVV party leader Geert Wilders good result in the Dutch elections is a worry. Wilders is an Islamophobe, hates immigrants etc. But contrary to the usual stupid headlines PVV has not "won". He has 37 seats where 76 are needed to form a government and most of the other parties have said that they will not work with PVV.

    One Dutch expert predicts the final makeup of parliament here:

    “Sarah de Lange, professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Amsterdam, said the most likely outcome appears to be a right-wing government comprised of the PVV, Rutte’s conservative VVD Party, and Pieter Omtzigt’s New Social Contract party, which was formed in August with a pledge to “do politics differently.” This would likely require Wilders to give up the most extreme components of his manifesto, which include proposals to bring immigration to zero, ban the Quran and close mosques, many of which are unconstitutional….”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/23/dutch-election-what-comes-next-after-shock-far-right-victory.html

    The GreenLeft-Labour Alliance did quite well getting 25 seats. One can only hope all the parties shun Wilders and form a coalition government with this alliance.

    • Ghostwhowalks 4.1
      24 November 2023 at 2:08 pm

      Agree on that . Common in Europe with proportional party list elections for the largest party to be in low to mid 20% of the vote .

      Even then coalition building takes 3-6 months

    • Corey 4.2
      24 November 2023 at 5:27 pm

      It's terrifying and happened in Sweeden and is due to happen in Germany where the AFD is polling more than their Labour, green, act coalition Combined.

      Not working with these parties isn't sustainable in the long term because they keep growing.

      It's deeply insane that this has been going on for the better part of a decade and the establishment, progressive, moderate and conservative parties of the world haven't bothered to try to find a way to combat it.

      It's all a symptom of the economic fallout of the working and middle classes and systemic cultural shock from globalization, it's crazy that the mainstream left refuses to seriously address these issues in either a real politik or populist way as these are usually our traditional voters and instead of winning them over we finger wag and talk about how great globalization is because you can get cheap whitewear and "diversity is our strength"

      I pray it doesn't happen here.

  5. alwyn 5
    24 November 2023 at 9:56 am

    Well, John Campbell will be very pleased that we will have a new Government.

    I heard a story, although admittedly not from a terribly reliable source, that he has had a camera crew on standby for the last couple of weeks to start filming children living in cars. That was of course part of his stock in trade about 6 years ago.

    The problem has been that until the new Ministerial roles have been announced he hasn't been able to waylay the Minister with questions demanding to know what is being done about it. Expect some stories by late next week. There are many more children in the situation today than there were back in 2017 I believe.

    Still, John will sort it out.

  6. Muttonbird 6
    24 November 2023 at 10:25 am

    I see this government is starting out as they mean to continue. It is literally being born with a Friday dump.

  7. pat 7
    24 November 2023 at 11:05 am

    NZs first 3 party coalition government….a symptom of a surfeit of elites?

    Peter Turchin studies the collapse of societies….and possible opportunities to avoid/delay such.

  8. Sanctuary 8
    24 November 2023 at 11:22 am

    First review of the coalition talks….

    The National flag on the table is bigger than the other two flags, however the NZ First flag is above the other two and the ACT flag whilst lower and smaller has a stand that has three steps instead of two and it is higher. The National flag in in the middle, with the ACT flag on the right and NZ Flag on the left except on Tuesdays and Thursdays, when they take turns at being in the middle. Half way through the term NZ First and ACT flags will swop sides. National's flag is made in China, NZ First's flag came in an unmarked brown envelope along with $250,000 and a box of frozen Hoki fillets, and ACTs flag came in a Zuru box with $500,000 and a thank you note from Nick Mowbray.

  9. Kay 9
    24 November 2023 at 11:27 am

    According to Seymour, they are going to do "good for ALL New Zealanders ". Is that all rich/white/politicians/landlords he's referring to? Nothing like starting off your term with blatant lying.

  10. Sanctuary 10
    24 November 2023 at 11:28 am

    The long and the short of the announcement this morning- a spiteful and revanchist government that is going to borrow for it's tax cuts.

    • Tiger Mountain 10.1
      24 November 2023 at 11:44 am

      Accurate summary.

      Seymour went out of his way to mention Firearms and 3 Strikes to emphasise your point Sanctuary.

    • bwaghorn 10.2
      24 November 2023 at 12:08 pm

      Acts van Velden has work place relations, workers are fucked.

    • Ad 10.3
      24 November 2023 at 12:10 pm

      Almost like they're the shadow opposite of a shallow, feckless, incompetent bunch of d-grade managers who bulk-funded us through a couple of crises, pushed waaay beyond any Overton window then rapidly fell apart in a year, and now sit on the steaming wreckage with not a note of apology.

    • Bearded Git 10.4
      24 November 2023 at 1:27 pm

      Sanc….and for its 13 bloody RONS.

    • Patricia Bremner 10.5
      24 November 2023 at 1:45 pm

      Revanchist policies. Exactly. Undoing all work done in a spiteful nasty way. Those three remind me of a pack of dogs, peeing on each post to mark their territory.

      The allocation of portfolios… some who have been in Parliament since 2014 holding none, suddenly with 3 or 4. How will that work? Doocey case in point. Leader of the House.. Chris Bishop.surprise Speaker Gerry Brownlee.frownTama Potaka loaded with all things Maori… because Dr. Reti will have Health. This looks like a house of straw rather than a "Strong and Stable Government".

      On a religious note Judith Collins has had her prayers answered. Resurrection indeed.

  11. Tiger Mountain 11
    24 November 2023 at 11:39 am

    In light of the three clown’s coalition announcement this morning, Community groups, NGOs, unions and ordinary people have to organise and support each other. It is going to be a tougher time for the bottom 50% that have barely 5% of the wealth.

    Various public sector unions were happy to take extensive strike action with a Labour Govt. they will quickly expose themselves if they do move on NActFirst promptly to fight cuts, clawbacks and sackings.

    Working class people are going to be hit hard, and Māori especially. Bye bye to the incremental reforms from Labour. Unfortunately it “woz Nuzilundas wot dun it to thumselfs” this time. Three years of no winter energy payment, minimum wage rises, or free prescriptions will hopefully give some of the numpties and Jacinda haters time to reflect.

    • Rolling-on-Gravel 11.1
      24 November 2023 at 11:55 am

      Fully agreed.

      It is going to take a lot of people to resist whatever bad they might inflict upon us.

      We need to unite against whatever terrible things they may have planned for us all.

    • Sanctuary 11.2
      24 November 2023 at 11:55 am

      If it's got the balls then Labour has just been given a considerable opportunity. Nothing from what clearly is going to be a deeply unserious government will do anything to address the economic, social and climate issues facing NZ.

      Luxon looks like he wants to go back to 2017 and stay there, Seymour is determined to cling to zombie neoliberalism with a nasty dollop of GOP style racism, and Peters will do little except bicker with the press and engage in casual corruption. The only thing uniting them is culture war issues.

      Labour needs to shed neoliberal centrism & incrementalism, embrace the muscular state to regulate and legislate, and seize the left wing populist policy opportunity that has just been given to them on a golden platter. Take on the monopolies and duopolies. create new agencies to do things if old ones won’t. There is a huge opportunity.

      • Rolling-on-Gravel 11.2.1
        24 November 2023 at 11:59 am

        And Labour actually need to treat Greens like a real coalition partner. If the three coalition government NAT/ACT/NZF can do it, so can Labour.

        There's no excuses left for Labour to electorally mistreat the Greens anymore.

        • Ad 11.2.1.1
          24 November 2023 at 12:03 pm

          +100 RoG

          Act like a government-in-waiting from the start.

        • Patricia Bremner 11.2.1.2
          24 November 2023 at 1:53 pm

          ROG exactlyyes With conviction and purpose.

        • Ghostwhowalks 11.2.1.3
          24 November 2023 at 2:02 pm

          "There's no excuses left for Labour to electorally mistreat the Greens anymore."

          The Greens do their own thing and as they are winning seats off Labour there is no need to give them an inch

          • Rolling-on-Gravel 11.2.1.3.1
            24 November 2023 at 3:00 pm

            Still … Labour need to treat their partners with more respect. I am so tired of Labour historically treating their partners like children and not giving them much to do; and when Greens does something substantial – it's rarely remarked upon or minimised if can't be ignored.

            Labour need to realise that Greens (and likely TPM also) will play a role in Labour's future. And it better act like it whether Greens has a higher or lower percentage of votes in the 2026/7 election.

      • Tiger Mountain 11.2.2
        24 November 2023 at 12:01 pm

        yesyes

    • Ad 11.3
      24 November 2023 at 12:02 pm

      What have communitarians got to complain about? Gumboot Day is in the coalition agreement fully funded. Horse racing is fully funded. Guns will be deregistered.

      A good Friday night out in Eltham.

    • Anker 11.4
      24 November 2023 at 8:15 pm

      Tiger Mountain, I have read the coalition agreements

      The winter energy payment stays.

      • Anne 11.4.1
        24 November 2023 at 8:29 pm

        For the time being Anker. Come April next year when the payment is soon to begin for the winter months, they're going to be taking the knife to everything they can lay their hands on in order to pay for the unaffordable tax-cut bribe. Muldoon did it in the 1970s and he ended up freezing wages and salaries in order to pay for the unaffordable superannuation bribe.

        The country came within a whisker of bankruptcy. I bet the same thing is going to happen again.

        • Anker 11.4.1.1
          26 November 2023 at 9:40 pm

          Well I don't have a crystal ball Anne, so you could be correct.

          I think Winston would put up a fight if they tried to take away the winter energy payment, but who would know

    • Descendant Of Smith 11.5
      24 November 2023 at 11:06 pm

      Unions went on strike with Labour because they knew it had a better chance of succeeding than under a National government. It was a cynical but successful approach that gave national fodder to message anti-union. Labour however could have just increased pay rates and funding without all the bull-shit but chose not to – just as they chose not to implement WEAG recommendations, just as those chose to allow massive amounts of immigration and the abuse of immigrant workers.

      Their failure to implement at times was atrocious – especially where MBIE was involved.

      The last 18 months or so they allowed National to control their policies and fell away from ensuring implementation to kneejerk responding. Their struggle to break away from neo-liberalism is real.

      Energy Hardship

      https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/27802-doia-2324-0860-response-for-publishing-pdf

      Employment action plans

      https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/employment-and-skills/employment-strategy/

      RSE

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130915844/small-number-of-rse-licences-revoked-shows-government-agencies-and-businesses-burying-the-issue-union-says

      A review by the Public Service Commission is under way to check whether processes around the checks and balances of the AEWV scheme have been followed.

      The review is expected to be complete by mid-December.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499394/border-alerts-placed-on-offshore-migrants-with-accredited-employer-work-visas

  12. AB 12
    24 November 2023 at 12:09 pm

    Time travel would be useful – to be able to go forward and see what breaks, falls down, poisons people or wrecks the environment as a direct result of Seymour's reign as "Minister of Regulation"
    For future home buyers, it will be wise to make the avoidance of a Seymour-era house a standard filter on decision-making.

  13. Rosielee 13
    24 November 2023 at 12:17 pm

    Seymour, Minister for Regulation. What the … does that mean?

    • Incognito 13.1
      24 November 2023 at 12:28 pm

      It means that David will be this Government’s Manny.

    • bwaghorn 13.2
      24 November 2023 at 12:52 pm

      Letting developers ,farmers, builders, and anyone else with money do what they want I expect

    • Peter 13.3
      24 November 2023 at 1:22 pm

      He’s spent years saying there’s too much regulation and he’s going to get rid of it. Too many employed in Ministries like Education. So he’ll get rid of people. And all the necessary regulations around Charter Schools.and accountability checks? Who’s to do that?

  14. ianmac 14
    24 November 2023 at 1:14 pm

    The easy part is writing up the agreements. The testing bit will be putting stuff into action, especially the need to have the people in support – or not.

    • Incognito 14.1
      24 November 2023 at 4:40 pm

      The Devil is in the detail, but Big Brains don’t concern themselves with minutiae; they’re about Big Picture stuff and vibes with considerable help from the Sales Department PR & Comms Teams to create that magical PR woo woo.

    • georgecom 14.2
      24 November 2023 at 11:30 pm

      the new govt cabinet is pretty short on talent and intellectual heft. iy will be a big test for many of them to put things into action. the hypocrisy of act is stunning though

  15. Ghostwhowalks 15
    24 November 2023 at 2:00 pm

    The real cabinet ministers but not on the list will be:

    Bill English & Co Ltd

    Steven Joyce Consulting Ltd

  16. DS 16
    24 November 2023 at 2:52 pm

    First thought on the new cabinet: there's only one South Islander (Doocey) in the entire bunch (Simmonds and Patterson are outside cabinet, making it 3/28 across the entire ministry).

    1/20 is rather shitty representation when you make up a quarter of the country.

    • Ad 16.1
      24 November 2023 at 3:37 pm

      Most will have Queenstown holiday homes so relax you'll be able to hear their jewellery rattling down the ski fields.

      And farmers are pretty well covered in all 3 caucuses.

      Tough luck for the Dunedin proles.

  17. adam 17
    24 November 2023 at 3:13 pm

    I was thinking we should all follow the baby boomers and just stop. Take some time to enjoy family and friends. If we not going to be slaves in this new economy.

  18. Adrian 18
    24 November 2023 at 3:41 pm

    Anyone know where I can get some used Stop Co-Governance signs cheap?. With Peter’s and Seymour sharing DP I’m over this co governance bullshit already!

    Oh.. and some Stop Three Wankers ones too.

  19. Visubversa 19
    24 November 2023 at 4:01 pm

    The precursor for meth back on Pharmacy shelves, and an AR15 to facilitate the robbery. The Dairy owners can relax now – this lot have just cut out all the middle men.

    • ianmac 19.1
      24 November 2023 at 4:08 pm

      And Visubversa the pharmacy will have a lot of extra work distinguishing those who get free scrips and those who don't. All in or all out would be much simpler.

    • AB 19.2
      24 November 2023 at 6:51 pm

      Pseudo-ephedrine is back on the shelf because it gets people back to work more quickly than the alternatives, i.e. it's a sop to employers. Workers feel that if they're not snotting and sneezing everywhere it's less anti-social to turn up at work. More people will get sick overall, but hey, they can just pop some pseudoephedrine as well. Much that this government will do is to provide a short-term boost to business profitability with complete indifference to the long-term consequences.

      • Visubversa 19.2.1
        24 November 2023 at 9:49 pm

        It is also not advised for people who have to operate machinery. I have a Mast cell allergy and used to take it occasionally. I did not drive, or operate anything complex or dangerous on those days.

    • SPC 19.3
      24 November 2023 at 10:00 pm

      And with retained access to smokes and better armed robbers, greater reward with greater risk. One wonders when they take out the insurance of gang protection …

    • Belladonna 19.4
      24 November 2023 at 10:15 pm

      Removing the precursor for meth from pharmacy shelves has made zero difference to the amount of meth imported or cooked up in NZ.

      Pharmacy pseudoephedrine was never a major ingredient source. And certainly not in this age of industrialized crime led by major criminal gangs.

      And, I haven't had a decent cold-symptom suppressant since it was removed. None of the substitutes are anything like as effective.

      Suppression of symptoms – not only makes you feel better, more quickly – you are much less likely to develop secondary infections – and then require antibiotics.

      • SPC 19.4.1
        24 November 2023 at 10:32 pm

        The first policy onto the bonfire was a Key legacy.

        Cluxon was determined to be seen as his own man.

        It may also have been a sop to ACT as their aim to reduce sickness leave entitlement was not part of the agreement.

      • Incognito 19.4.2
        24 November 2023 at 10:32 pm

        The Chief Science Advisor, Professor Peter Gluckman, wrote this in his report to the Prime Minister [John Key] in 2009:

        Executive Summary

        • Domestically diverted pseudoephedrine is a precursor for a significant proportion of the methamphetamine consumed in New Zealand, and is the predominant precursor in small-scale clandestine laboratories.
        • Experience from other jurisdictions suggests that restrictions on the domestic availability of pseudoephedrine translate into reductions in the number of clandestine laboratories discovered. Given the high societal cost of such laboratories, this would be a public good.

        https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2021-10/pmcsa-Report-to-the-PM-Pseudoephedrine2.pdf

        • Belladonna 19.4.2.1
          25 November 2023 at 9:51 am

          And did the production and/or consumption of methamphetamine significantly reduce once pseudoephedrine was banned from commercial sale?
          Given the explosion in the availability of meth – the evidence seems against it.

  20. Ad 20
    24 November 2023 at 4:39 pm

    They're reversing most of the anti-smoking regulations. FFS.

  21. rod 21
    24 November 2023 at 4:53 pm

    Back to the future with the Three Stooges. smiley

  22. Joe90 22
    24 November 2023 at 5:38 pm

    The cruelty is a feature.

    Max Harris

    @maxdnharris

    National-ACT’s coalition agreement wants anyone going for a “health and disability related benefit” to have to go through a more limited pool of doctors. You have the power to improve lives, and you decide to make life harder for people with disabilities/health conditions?

    https://twitter.com/maxdnharris/status/1727849789914595614

    • Rolling-on-Gravel 22.1
      24 November 2023 at 6:37 pm

      This is why I was fearing NAT/ACT so much yesterday.

    • Anne 22.2
      24 November 2023 at 8:17 pm

      In other words, anyone with a “health and disability" condition and needs a benefit to survive, is automatically considered to be a malingerer who is trying to cheat the system – not to mention an insult to the vast majority of doctors whose recommendations are made on good grounds and in good faith.

      This is a return to the 1990s – the days of Ruth Richardson and co. plus that vile woman, Christine Rankin! The truth is, these right-wing shits feel they have to demonise the less fortunate to assuage their own greedy and self serving guilt.

  23. Louis 23
    24 November 2023 at 5:49 pm

    If memory serves that is very reminiscent of the key National govt's punitive ACC policy.

    Oops, that was supposed to be in response to Joe90’s post.